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"Do you/would you support the assisted dying bill? " Yes. It's painful to see someone you love die slowly | |||
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"If somebody's together enough mentally but falling apart physically to express the wish to let it all go, then yes." This is where Capacity plays a huge part and informed consent . | |||
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"Do you/would you support the assisted dying bill? " Yes. Some of us do not want to go on and it is a pointless exercise in going on as we have a shit prognosis interm of leading an independent and fulfilling life. No one wants to be a shell of a personal needing 24 hour care or being in contant pain or slowly losing your mind. | |||
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"Do you/would you support the assisted dying bill? " Definitely. I work for an ambulance service and see lots of patients who have no quality of life | |||
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"Yes but with the right safeguarding procedures in place " This. Having worked in the care industry there are right dodgy fuckers out there who will do anything to get their hands on money, so strict safeguarding would have to be in place. | |||
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"Yes but with the right safeguarding procedures in place This. Having worked in the care industry there are right dodgy fuckers out there who will do anything to get their hands on money, so strict safeguarding would have to be in place." This is my concern too, and I think safeguarding has to go a lot further than making sure that nobody is trying to inherit someone’s house and pressuring them into it. Someone doesn’t have to be explicitly told “you should die” to feel that they ought to. If you’re elderly, disabled, seriously ill or dependent on other people for care, you already feel like a burden. We have a society where disabled people are expected to justify the cost of their existence. We’re told that chronically ill or disabled people need to get back into work, that the welfare bill is too high, that disability benefits are unsustainable. We keep reducing support while pretending it’s for their own good. In April this year, for example, the UC health element for most new LCWRA claimants was cut in half, with the lower rate then frozen for several years. A quick look on the forums here will highlight societies attitudes towards anyone disadvantaged. What if nobody says anything at all, but the person has spent ten years being told through policy, media and the benefits system that their very existence is too much of an expense? That’s coercion in much more insidious way, because nobody necessarily has to say anything to them directly. They’ve just been taught that their existence is a selfish burden on society. If we’re going to say to vulnerable people, “”You have the right to choose death, then we also need to be able to say, “”if you choose life, we will make sure you can live it with dignity, care and without being made to feel like a financial and emotional burden”” I’d like to think I’ve read too much dystopian fiction, but the people in powers attitudes towards the most vulnerable in society makes me worry about how this will be misused. I fully support full autonomy which includes assisted dying but I am worried about its safety. | |||
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"Do you/would you support the assisted dying bill? " I would i dont see the point of living if you can't live the cost of it should be free though .  | |||
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"Yep. After witnessing what my dad went through at the end of his life, and being by his side when he passed away, it wasn't a dignified way to go. The moment will never leave my memory. " My heart goes out to you. I went through the same at the age of 24. The memories will always be with me. I totally, 100% agree with end of life assisted dying. | |||
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"What is media narrative leaning towards? We get the impression that institutions want it, so it's likely a bad idea for us. The cynical side of us thinks it's just to get larger inheritance tax payouts and sooner. Can't afford to live in old age? Don't worry, the state will just put you to sleep while they replace you with third worlders. Because as things are now we're all happy with stagnating wages and high living costs and importing competition for resources always helps. "I'm not sure I agree here sorry, you only have to look into the Liverpool pathways or the endless DNACP during Covid . This is more about passing the bill to give people the choice to have a dignified death not about saving the government money and more about the quality of life . But with that comes a whole bunch of coercion and Risks majority from family members or a feeling they themselves are a burden . Which is not what it is for . I'm strongly for it ,however the legislation has to be stringently tight . | |||
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"With appropriate safeguarding and appropriate support in place then yes." Noticing your location, Terry Pratchett chose to go in one of the most intentional displays of euthanasia. Nobody could fault his actions or the actions of those around him. However, not everyone is as privileged as he was, with supportive relatives and friends and a genuine ability to choose. More generally, if we normalise this and allow people to choose their death, why shouldn't we choose death for those deemed not to be able to consent, but who are suffering? Not a troll question. Where does it stop, and why? | |||
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"What is media narrative leaning towards? We get the impression that institutions want it, so it's likely a bad idea for us. The cynical side of us thinks it's just to get larger inheritance tax payouts and sooner. Can't afford to live in old age? Don't worry, the state will just put you to sleep while they replace you with third worlders. Because as things are now we're all happy with stagnating wages and high living costs and importing competition for resources always helps.
I'm not sure I agree here sorry, you only have to look into the Liverpool pathways or the endless DNACP during Covid . This is more about passing the bill to give people the choice to have a dignified death not about saving the government money and more about the quality of life . But with that comes a whole bunch of coercion and Risks majority from family members or a feeling they themselves are a burden . Which is not what it is for . I'm strongly for it ,however the legislation has to be stringently tight ."Excellent post. | |||
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"Comparing animals and humans as in previous posts is a grave misapprehension of what this is all about and shows gross lack of understanding." Given the number of posts in here, their almost unanimous nature, and the heartfelt stories that people are telling, I'm going to suggest that the lack of understanding is with you. | |||
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"Comparing animals and humans as in previous posts is a grave misapprehension of what this is all about and shows gross lack of understanding. Given the number of posts in here, their almost unanimous nature, and the heartfelt stories that people are telling, I'm going to suggest that the lack of understanding is with you." Im not here to agree with the unanimous nature of the debate. I have an opinion too and experience of losing someone close. Yes i agree they are heartfelt but making comparison with how animals are treated is way off the mark in this debate. So your assertion of my lack of understanding is baseless. | |||
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated..." For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why? | |||
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"Do you/would you support the assisted dying bill? " Yes for all lefties. | |||
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated... For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why?" Emotional reactions to situations that have not been lived, is usually the reason. My mother was in hospital and in a very bad way, I was with my brothers and I was asked by a doctor for a decision to resuscitate or not. I said not to, one of my brothers totally lost it and couldn’t come to terms with what I had said. It took a lot to get him to understand what was being decided and why. He now totally understands the reason for my decision but he needed to live through it. | |||
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"Im saying no. No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness. Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them. It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system. " I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel. | |||
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated... For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why? Emotional reactions to situations that have not been lived, is usually the reason. My mother was in hospital and in a very bad way, I was with my brothers and I was asked by a doctor for a decision to resuscitate or not. I said not to, one of my brothers totally lost it and couldn’t come to terms with what I had said. It took a lot to get him to understand what was being decided and why. He now totally understands the reason for my decision but he needed to live through it. " Agreed. But that's a decision not to resuscitate. How about a decision to actively euthanise? | |||
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"...making comparison with how animals are treated... For one, a decision is made in behalf of the animal when since it cannot understand or decide for itself. What prevents is doing the same to humans, and why? Emotional reactions to situations that have not been lived, is usually the reason. My mother was in hospital and in a very bad way, I was with my brothers and I was asked by a doctor for a decision to resuscitate or not. I said not to, one of my brothers totally lost it and couldn’t come to terms with what I had said. It took a lot to get him to understand what was being decided and why. He now totally understands the reason for my decision but he needed to live through it. Agreed. But that's a decision not to resuscitate. How about a decision to actively euthanise?" As my father was nearing the last hours of life, there was a moment I prayed he would pass peacefully rather than in the agonising pain he was in. Would I have made the choice to take his life at that point, Im not sure, the hurt of seeing him in so much pain in that moment, I can imagine I may have said yes. Now I don’t have the situation in front of me, it alters my feeling somewhat. However, I think if the option was there, spoken about and the decision known and pre agreed, I think the choice to end life would be valid in certain circumstances. | |||
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"Im saying no. No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness. Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them. It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system. I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel." Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that. | |||
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" Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that. " What is fundamentally wrong about killing someone who wants to be killed for a rational reason? | |||
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"Im saying no. No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness. Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them. It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system. I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel. Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that. " Generally, when you are at the point you are suffering so much from your illness that you would rather die, the chance of remission has passed. People tend to feel a lot better just before they die because their body has given up the fight, would you consider that to be remission? | |||
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"Im saying no. No legislation is going to be foolproof to cover all scenarios. How can a definitive medical diagnosis take place when some people go into remission from their illness. Coersion will happen in families. Nobody can stop that. People will feel they are a burden on others which is not what this is about. Making a decision to safeguard families from seeing their final days of suffering makes it about others rather than about them. It may start as stringent legislation but before long rules will be reviewed and relaxed and we end up like Canada with a free for all system. I think you might be a little confused, such a bill would not allow someone who has been diagnosed with a terminal illness that will kill them in a year or two but are currently fine, those people could quite easily commit suicide. An assisted suicide bill is about people who are in the last 6 months of life, suffering to such an extent that death is preferable to going on living. People would have to have the agreement of two independent doctors, and a high level oversight panel. Just to be clear I am not confused. People who are nearing end of life may still go into remission. No doctor or ill persin can forsee that. Generally, when you are at the point you are suffering so much from your illness that you would rather die, the chance of remission has passed. People tend to feel a lot better just before they die because their body has given up the fight, would you consider that to be remission?" In medical terms thats not remission | |||
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"Why do I not have the legal right to decide the time and manner of my death?" Indeed, and that cuts to the very heart of the discussion. . Can I choose ? Yes or No . If No, why is my self-autonomy being blocked and by whom and why ? . My self-autonomy overrides everything else. | |||
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" Can I choose ? Yes or No . If No, why is my self-autonomy being blocked and by whom and why ? . My self-autonomy overrides everything else. " That's not the point. You can choose to end your life. The question is: May anyone take, or assist in taking, another's life? | |||
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"I challenge anyone who is in the No camp to sit and watch someone they love die slowly." Not sure what your challenge here is. | |||
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"For me it should be leagle but there need so be agreement form, The individual, gp, persons solicitor / in a will and a court. That whay no one can be presured in to it. Like a partner or family just wanting to get there hands on the estate. " Yes there's pressure from family and friends when people feel they are making others live lives worse, but there's also the mental health side of things when you're in a lot of pain and suffering. You don't always think straight I've been through a few suicide attempts with people who have gone on to get better and live very meaningful lives, but at the time they were absolutely 100% sure they did not want to live. | |||
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"Towards the end of his life, a very dear friend of mine wanted to go to Switzerland to end his suffering. He could hardly move, and it was explained to him by the doctors that they would not/could not administer the fatal injection, but would enable him to perform the act himself with a movement of his head. However, his wife was warned by the Police that if she took him there (and how else was the poor sod gonna get to Switzerland), she would face criminal charges on her return to the UK." I've never understood the mentality behind this. The CPS don't prosecute these cases as it isn't in the public interest, but the police make sure that you get a full interrogation when you return home. What purpose can be served by arresting and questioning a person that's grieving the loss of a loved one when the police know that no charges will ever be brought? | |||
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""If it's anything like Switzerland..." Towards the end of his life, a very dear friend of mine wanted to go to Switzerland to end his suffering. He could hardly move, and it was explained to him by the doctors that they would not/could not administer the fatal injection, but would enable him to perform the act himself with a movement of his head. However, his wife was warned by the Police that if she took him there (and how else was the poor sod gonna get to Switzerland), she would face criminal charges on her return to the UK. He died at home and not in a good way..." That is terrible, and criminalising the wife is just awful. . It just makes me feel that if in the same position, the kindest thing would be to tell no one and just go. Slip off in to the night under my own steam if able. | |||
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""If it's anything like Switzerland..." Towards the end of his life, a very dear friend of mine wanted to go to Switzerland to end his suffering. He could hardly move, and it was explained to him by the doctors that they would not/could not administer the fatal injection, but would enable him to perform the act himself with a movement of his head. However, his wife was warned by the Police that if she took him there (and how else was the poor sod gonna get to Switzerland), she would face criminal charges on her return to the UK. He died at home and not in a good way... That is terrible, and criminalising the wife is just awful. . It just makes me feel that if in the same position, the kindest thing would be to tell no one and just go. Slip off in to the night under my own steam if able." Something like this happened in Liverpool years ago. The police never actually did anything when the family member came home alone. | |||
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"It's a very contentious topic, my wife had Huntingtons for around 30 years . It slowly took away everything. When you see someone go through such an horrific illness, if they can't go on and it's their final wish, they still have the capacity to make that decision, without being coerced, then yes without a second thought. " I am so sorry to hear that, it's truly awful | |||
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