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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " At a recent job I was in a position where I had to stand and listen to an antivax protest - the hatred and vitriol that spouted from their mouths for almost an hour was scary. Particularly when it was directed at people like me, not part of the event they were protesting at, simply at the same location and in closer proximity. I’ve seen (and been a protestor myself) at many events in my life but I’ve never heard such venom before. And I won’t even start to criticise the pseudo-science that they use to ‘justify’ their hatred. Very sad. | |||
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"I've had mine and my booster,as I decided I wanted to. I'm not anti vax at all, but I think it's up to people to decide if they want it or not. People shouldn't be having a go at others because they have/haven't had it. " How were you after the booster made me ill | |||
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"I've had mine and my booster,as I decided I wanted to. I'm not anti vax at all, but I think it's up to people to decide if they want it or not. People shouldn't be having a go at others because they have/haven't had it. How were you after the booster made me ill" I've just had it this morning, so I'll let you know. Just a bit of an ache so far. Were you OK with the first 2? | |||
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"I've had mine and my booster,as I decided I wanted to. I'm not anti vax at all, but I think it's up to people to decide if they want it or not. People shouldn't be having a go at others because they have/haven't had it. How were you after the booster made me ill I've just had it this morning, so I'll let you know. Just a bit of an ache so far. Were you OK with the first 2? " First two were fine the booster my arm ached take some Paracetamol xxxxx | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " Completely agree. It's like jabbed vs non jabbed. It just doesn't need to be that way. Same with Brexit. I personally don't mind what people do or who they vote for etc. | |||
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"I've had mine and my booster,as I decided I wanted to. I'm not anti vax at all, but I think it's up to people to decide if they want it or not. People shouldn't be having a go at others because they have/haven't had it. How were you after the booster made me ill I've just had it this morning, so I'll let you know. Just a bit of an ache so far. Were you OK with the first 2? First two were fine the booster my arm ached take some Paracetamol xxxxx" Will do love, thanks xx | |||
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"I've had mine and my booster,as I decided I wanted to. I'm not anti vax at all, but I think it's up to people to decide if they want it or not. People shouldn't be having a go at others because they have/haven't had it. How were you after the booster made me ill I've just had it this morning, so I'll let you know. Just a bit of an ache so far. Were you OK with the first 2? First two were fine the booster my arm ached take some Paracetamol xxxxx Will do love, thanks xx" Xxxx | |||
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"Unfortunately most people who have opted to not be vaccinated are too often lumped as "anti-vaxxers" even though most have other vaccines up to date and their children's immunisation is up to date (like me). It insults my intelligence when people accuse me of repeating conspiracy theories when I have a medical background, can interpret data and have spent more time pouring over peer reviewed research than most. The doctors and specialists that have urged caution have made a more compelling argument than the ones peddling a "vaccinate, vaccinate vaccinate" narrative 24/7. I've done a risk / benefit analysis which everyone is entitled to do before submitting to any medical procedure and came to the conclusion that it doesn't benefit me. Simple. I have nothing against whoever thinks differently and they can opt for whatever they want. I DO have a problem when attempts at imposing the other viewpoint is made. When passions run high it's very easy for discourse to become more billegerent and based more on emotion than reason. Personally I observe this far more from the pro vaccine quarter. Especially the ones defending mandates with penalties for non compliance." He put it better than me. *round of applause*. | |||
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"We're not afraid, we would meet people unable to have the vaccine for a genuine reason but I'd guess that the chances of meeting someone MEDICALLY to exempt is like meeting a single female We wouldn't under any circumstances meet with anyone wearing any sort of tinfoil or that bathes in botax that's our choice" Oh a Botox bath sounds awesome. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr | |||
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"We have both been double jabbed , but got quite a few younger people we know who will not be vaccinated, can see the point of view they run the risk of blood clot for a virus that they have virtually no chance of dying from , the vaccine protects the person that has it so can’t see why it bothers them why others don’t want the jab , and those who don’t want it why does it bother them if people want it " That's right they have virtually no chance of dying from Covid, but let's be honest the chances of getting a blood clot from the vaccine are probably a million times less than dying from Covid | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr"  always enjoy Mr NBVN posts. | |||
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"Also I have a big black blob on my phone screen so you just have to guess what I mean with the typos "I think you may be able to get a jab for big black blobs on phone screens | |||
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"Its the labelling of those who are hesitant as conspiracy theories that cracks me up. Most of the theories I've saw touted around have turned out to be completely spot on so it's hardly an insult. I saw people talking about a lab leak, gain of function research, vaccine passports and a two tier society based on your immunity status around 18 months ago. All of which were labelled as crazy conspiracies and "society wouldn't stand for that". Now look where we are "Anybody who thought vaccines passports was a conspiracy theory is short sighted. Vaccine passports aren't even new. Plus, anybody who thinks vaccine passports are proof of our rights being striped, is also short sighted, well, plain fucking stupid tbh. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " For me personally, I have no issues with people who choose to not get vaccinated, they are entitled to choose. What I do take umbrage with is the lies and conspiracy theories... and the people who think there should not be any possible consequences, such as restrictions or job-losses, if the choose not to (those who "can't" are different). Cal | |||
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"Its the labelling of those who are hesitant as conspiracy theories that cracks me up. Most of the theories I've saw touted around have turned out to be completely spot on so it's hardly an insult. I saw people talking about a lab leak, gain of function research, vaccine passports and a two tier society based on your immunity status around 18 months ago. All of which were labelled as crazy conspiracies and "society wouldn't stand for that". Now look where we are
Anybody who thought vaccines passports was a conspiracy theory is short sighted. Vaccine passports aren't even new.
Plus, anybody who thinks vaccine passports are proof of our rights being striped, is also short sighted, well, plain fucking stupid tbh."If it impacts someones right to work or move freely then yes, I believe they are losing rights. People can claim its a choice to be vaccinated but fear of not being able to pay your bills, look after your family or even be segregated like in Austria isn't a choice. Its blatant coercion. I'm doubled jabbed and considered vaccinated for now, how long til my choice of not accepting a booster impacts my life negatively? I believe everyone should be free to make their own choice in any medical situation without having your arm twisted. Your body, your choice! | |||
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"Its the labelling of those who are hesitant as conspiracy theories that cracks me up. Most of the theories I've saw touted around have turned out to be completely spot on so it's hardly an insult. I saw people talking about a lab leak, gain of function research, vaccine passports and a two tier society based on your immunity status around 18 months ago. All of which were labelled as crazy conspiracies and "society wouldn't stand for that". Now look where we are
Anybody who thought vaccines passports was a conspiracy theory is short sighted. Vaccine passports aren't even new.
Plus, anybody who thinks vaccine passports are proof of our rights being striped, is also short sighted, well, plain fucking stupid tbh.If it impacts someones right to work or move freely then yes, I believe they are losing rights.
People can claim its a choice to be vaccinated but fear of not being able to pay your bills, look after your family or even be segregated like in Austria isn't a choice. Its blatant coercion.
I'm doubled jabbed and considered vaccinated for now, how long til my choice of not accepting a booster impacts my life negatively?
I believe everyone should be free to make their own choice in any medical situation without having your arm twisted. Your body, your choice!"Lots of professions ask that medical requirements are satisfied so there's a choice to get another job simple. | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x" How do you know it would've been worse? Anyway, back to the OP, this is sadly the nature of society these days, although it's worse on social media which I don't think reflects the majority of people. Everything is so tribal. People aren't capable of debate so they resort to labels and name-calling instead. If you have certain views you're a 'racist' or an 'anti-vaxxer' etc. I'm also unvaccinated, I just want to go about my life without constantly being told what to do and how to think. | |||
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"Its the labelling of those who are hesitant as conspiracy theories that cracks me up. Most of the theories I've saw touted around have turned out to be completely spot on so it's hardly an insult. I saw people talking about a lab leak, gain of function research, vaccine passports and a two tier society based on your immunity status around 18 months ago. All of which were labelled as crazy conspiracies and "society wouldn't stand for that". Now look where we are
Anybody who thought vaccines passports was a conspiracy theory is short sighted. Vaccine passports aren't even new.
Plus, anybody who thinks vaccine passports are proof of our rights being striped, is also short sighted, well, plain fucking stupid tbh.If it impacts someones right to work or move freely then yes, I believe they are losing rights.
People can claim its a choice to be vaccinated but fear of not being able to pay your bills, look after your family or even be segregated like in Austria isn't a choice. Its blatant coercion.
I'm doubled jabbed and considered vaccinated for now, how long til my choice of not accepting a booster impacts my life negatively?
I believe everyone should be free to make their own choice in any medical situation without having your arm twisted. Your body, your choice!
Lots of professions ask that medical requirements are satisfied so there's a choice to get another job simple."Actually the Hep B is mandatory to protect the workers who are required to work in an environment where there's a high risk of coming into contact with it. It's nothing to do with the pretence of protecting others. You also seem confused about choice and coercion. If I tell an employee that she has to sleep with me or get fired, you wouldn't shrug and say that she could just go find another job if she doesn't like it. | |||
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"The hatred is understandable. It's manufactured. But it's understandable. For antivaxers, or anticovid vaccine, they think their rights are being taken from them. They feel those that aren't anticovid vaccine are helping their rights being removed (leftist sheep etc). For provaccine, or anticovid vaccine, they think their health is being taken for granted. They feel those that aren't provaccine are helping to keep the pandemic going, putting their family and friends in harm's way etc The biggest problem we face in Western society is the inability to see the other person's pov. If you don't agree, you're evil or stupid or brainwashed. End of story. It's sad." I’d say it is worse and more complex than that and that is perpetuated by social media... This (like most things in life) is simply not a binary argument. There is this push to create tribes with diametrically opposed viewpoints who are never going to accept the other POV. However, while there are indeed avid pro-vaxxers and avid anti-vaxxers in between these are many different permutations including people who had the vaccine because it just makes life easier rather than believing they actually need it and people who are hesitant and want a bit more convincing it is necessary. I am totally sick of tribalism and keyboard warriors who insult but simply would not dare be so vile face-to-face. | |||
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"The hatred is understandable. It's manufactured. But it's understandable. For antivaxers, or anticovid vaccine, they think their rights are being taken from them. They feel those that aren't anticovid vaccine are helping their rights being removed (leftist sheep etc). For provaccine, or anticovid vaccine, they think their health is being taken for granted. They feel those that aren't provaccine are helping to keep the pandemic going, putting their family and friends in harm's way etc The biggest problem we face in Western society is the inability to see the other person's pov. If you don't agree, you're evil or stupid or brainwashed. End of story. It's sad. I’d say it is worse and more complex than that and that is perpetuated by social media... This (like most things in life) is simply not a binary argument. There is this push to create tribes with diametrically opposed viewpoints who are never going to accept the other POV. However, while there are indeed avid pro-vaxxers and avid anti-vaxxers in between these are many different permutations including people who had the vaccine because it just makes life easier rather than believing they actually need it and people who are hesitant and want a bit more convincing it is necessary. I am totally sick of tribalism and keyboard warriors who insult but simply would not dare be so vile face-to-face. " I'm in the group that simply wants to be left alone and not trying to force the other group to do anything. So when I meet a fiercely pro-vaxx person in real life, there's nothing I need to say to them. It doesn't upset me that they took the vaccine, I wouldn't want to remove that choice from them. However, if they wanted to start using all the typical insults such as selfish / granny killer / tin foil hat then that conversion would definitely go worse for them in real life than it does online. | |||
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"Because in this day and age everybody has to have an opinion and with everybody having access to social media everybody has to express their opinion. Unfortunately there are too many with the mistaken belief that expressing their own opinion more loudly and more forcefully makes theirs right and someone else's wrong" I'm afraid that's the nature of the beast with campaigning I'm afraid! Always has been, always will be. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " The vaccines, delivered as now, are safer than the virus. The illness is obviously far worse for many people and hospitals are currently struggling due to the illness sevrrity, largely of those not vaccinated. Keeping infection levels lower means we're reducing the potential risks from new mutations, that may evade the vaccines' immunity. We currently have an open society due largely to the vaccines. We've saved probably thousands of lives due to them too. With so many thousands of people dead, more severely disabled, livelihoods lost etc, these may be the drivers for conflict. I don't know | |||
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"What makes me laugh are those virulent Anti vaxxers with huge pouty fake lips. Do you know what’s in that shite luv? There’s a woman lives near me who is anti government, anti covid belief, anti vax cos it’s all a conspiracy thing and just the government trying to hold us down. She’s got lip fillers, tattooed eyebrows, teeth veneers, and spent £20000 of benefit money on fake tits and liposuction My own view - each to their own x" God what benefits is she on then cos I want them. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " Glad you had a not bad experience with covid.. just found out today that my next door neighbour contracted and died from covid whilst I was in hospital… I was in hospital for 10 days, I was in self isolation for 10 days before that! I basically didn’t see him for 3 weeks…… 143,000 people haven’t been as lucky as you in the UK alone… I am all for the greater good… if that mean I have a much harder time catching it.. or then passing it on.. then sign me up! | |||
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"What makes me laugh are those virulent Anti vaxxers with huge pouty fake lips. Do you know what’s in that shite luv? There’s a woman lives near me who is anti government, anti covid belief, anti vax cos it’s all a conspiracy thing and just the government trying to hold us down. She’s got lip fillers, tattooed eyebrows, teeth veneers, and spent £20000 of benefit money on fake tits and liposuction My own view - each to their own x" Filler is made predominantly from hyaluronic acid (with the addition of a bit of saline etc) which naturally occurs within the human body. This makes it one of the safest aesthetic yea Menes available as allergic reaction is rarer than hens teeth. | |||
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"Its the labelling of those who are hesitant as conspiracy theories that cracks me up. Most of the theories I've saw touted around have turned out to be completely spot on so it's hardly an insult. I saw people talking about a lab leak, gain of function research, vaccine passports and a two tier society based on your immunity status around 18 months ago. All of which were labelled as crazy conspiracies and "society wouldn't stand for that". Now look where we are "
wow, so very true!
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Glad you had a not bad experience with covid.. just found out today that my next door neighbour contracted and died from covid whilst I was in hospital… I was in hospital for 10 days, I was in self isolation for 10 days before that! I basically didn’t see him for 3 weeks…… 143,000 people haven’t been as lucky as you in the UK alone… I am all for the greater good… if that mean I have a much harder time catching it.. or then passing it on.. then sign me up! " Except the vaccine doesn't mean you have a much harder time catching it or then passing it on. At least I haven't seen the evidence to say this is true. Last I checked there were multiple reports showing that virus levels were similar in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. So how does that chime with being for the greater good? On another note, did anybody see the study which showed that covid patients requiring mechanical ventilation in ICU all had low vitamin D levels. Hope everyone is taking high strength vitamin D... there's unlikely to be any harm in doing so for most. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Glad you had a not bad experience with covid.. just found out today that my next door neighbour contracted and died from covid whilst I was in hospital… I was in hospital for 10 days, I was in self isolation for 10 days before that! I basically didn’t see him for 3 weeks…… 143,000 people haven’t been as lucky as you in the UK alone… I am all for the greater good… if that mean I have a much harder time catching it.. or then passing it on.. then sign me up! Except the vaccine doesn't mean you have a much harder time catching it or then passing it on. At least I haven't seen the evidence to say this is true. Last I checked there were multiple reports showing that virus levels were similar in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. So how does that chime with being for the greater good? On another note, did anybody see the study which showed that covid patients requiring mechanical ventilation in ICU all had low vitamin D levels. Hope everyone is taking high strength vitamin D... there's unlikely to be any harm in doing so for most. " Just a quick link regarding the reduction in onward transmission after vaccination as we are getting a little off topic from the Ops question but there is evidence and has been since about April this year that it's between a 40 and 60 percent reduction https://www.gov.uk/government/news/one-dose-of-covid-19-vaccine-can-cut-household-transmission-by-up-to-half | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Glad you had a not bad experience with covid.. just found out today that my next door neighbour contracted and died from covid whilst I was in hospital… I was in hospital for 10 days, I was in self isolation for 10 days before that! I basically didn’t see him for 3 weeks…… 143,000 people haven’t been as lucky as you in the UK alone… I am all for the greater good… if that mean I have a much harder time catching it.. or then passing it on.. then sign me up! Except the vaccine doesn't mean you have a much harder time catching it or then passing it on. At least I haven't seen the evidence to say this is true. Last I checked there were multiple reports showing that virus levels were similar in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. So how does that chime with being for the greater good? On another note, did anybody see the study which showed that covid patients requiring mechanical ventilation in ICU all had low vitamin D levels. Hope everyone is taking high strength vitamin D... there's unlikely to be any harm in doing so for most. " Happy to see someone has put a link to the official data. Therebis a reason for vaccination, it is simply to limit transmission. This is the basis of all of the mandatory vaccinations dating back to the 1950s. When groups choose not to vaccinate we see outbreaks of various contagious diseases and avoidable deaths. MMR was rubbished and is still talked about due to an illegal and poor study run by a doctor who has since been struck off the medical register. One final point please dont recommend high doses of vitamins as there are medical consequences to taking inappropriate large amounts of any drug.The max recommended dose for supplementary Vitamin D is 2000IU per day, plenty of data to back that up. Take care everyone. And remember dogystyle is a COVID approved position  | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " I quite agree with you …..I’m vaccinated but really Austrian politicians should be ashamed …. Glad Boris is some what free thinking and a libertarian….Each to there own | |||
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"Agreed OP, it pisses me off when ppl feel the need to judge those who havent been vaccinated. Im one of those who hasnt had the vaccine, 1, i dont believe a rushed vaccine should be pushed onto everyone, id rather wait until its been tested further and improved so its safer. Theres a % of ppl who have had negative reactions to it, regardless of the small %, its still the fact that it has caused problems for ppl by receiving the vaccine, some have had seizures, someone i knew had a seizure from it. Others are less severe but much much long term, possibly permanent side effects. 2, if i were to have a severe side effect from the vaccine im absolutely fucked, i live alone, and have no friends or family close by, if something wrong happens it could be disastrous for me. So id rather wait until the vaccine is much safer. Plus im pretty sure i already had it back in february last year, when the virus started spreading more, but at the time i thought it was just the flu. So i feel my immune system has had a taste of the virus so i should be better protected against it immunity wise should i ever catch it again. 3, as im unvaccinated i take precautions, i dont go out much, only for necessary things and when i get my shopping its before closing time so there are less ppl around, i distance myself from others, i still wear a mask when inside a public area like when i go shopping, and i keep my hands clean. What really pisses me off is ppl who get the vaccines, jabs and boosters, and wander about in shops without a mask but then expect everyone else to be vaccinated" . I don’t think that generally people expect everyone to be vaccinated so much as to be responsible for their own health and safety if they choose not to. Why should vaccinated people keep making allowances for those who choose not to ? | |||
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"Covid, brexit, politics, climate change, capitalism, socialism, rise of new super-powers, health & social services, religion taxation, human rights, technology, inner-city regeneration, etc. etc. ....... pick your continuum. Surely the more incisive question is why is human discord ‘apparently’ more prevalent now than seemingly ever before?" Lack of education, social media, hashtag culture, everyone's rights to do whatever they choose free from consequence, lack of parental guidance, lack of leadership, lack of community, culture of selfishness,.... And on... | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Glad you had a not bad experience with covid.. just found out today that my next door neighbour contracted and died from covid whilst I was in hospital… I was in hospital for 10 days, I was in self isolation for 10 days before that! I basically didn’t see him for 3 weeks…… 143,000 people haven’t been as lucky as you in the UK alone… I am all for the greater good… if that mean I have a much harder time catching it.. or then passing it on.. then sign me up! Except the vaccine doesn't mean you have a much harder time catching it or then passing it on. At least I haven't seen the evidence to say this is true. Last I checked there were multiple reports showing that virus levels were similar in both vaccinated and unvaccinated individuals. So how does that chime with being for the greater good? On another note, did anybody see the study which showed that covid patients requiring mechanical ventilation in ICU all had low vitamin D levels. Hope everyone is taking high strength vitamin D... there's unlikely to be any harm in doing so for most. Happy to see someone has put a link to the official data. Therebis a reason for vaccination, it is simply to limit transmission. This is the basis of all of the mandatory vaccinations dating back to the 1950s. When groups choose not to vaccinate we see outbreaks of various contagious diseases and avoidable deaths. MMR was rubbished and is still talked about due to an illegal and poor study run by a doctor who has since been struck off the medical register. One final point please dont recommend high doses of vitamins as there are medical consequences to taking inappropriate large amounts of any drug.The max recommended dose for supplementary Vitamin D is 2000IU per day, plenty of data to back that up. Take care everyone. And remember dogystyle is a COVID approved position " | |||
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"Because vaccinations of highly infectious diseases are more effect the more people that have it. So by not having it you are lowering its ability to protect everyone, putting others at risk That’s my understanding. " This is my view, and as a vunerable person to any virus, my view is that you are doing everyone else a disservice by not having it, yes my view is selfish, but im not alone in being vunerable, we live in a sociaty, and as its one of the most tested vaccines in history, i dont see why you wouldnt have it really, thats my view, i may be proved wrong in many years to come, but i trust the scientists and doctors to know better than any anti vaxer on face book etc, im not one for listening to social media etc, if i need expert advice i use expert advice | |||
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" the vaccine protects the person that has it so can’t see why it bothers them why others don’t want the jab " ...because the longer the virus is around and being transmitted from host to host the more probability of it mutating into a more infectious/more deadly version of itself. This isn't a 'might happen' scenario, it's a what happens with viruses thing. THAT is why people are 'bothered' about "I don't think it'll benefit me" antis. Incredibly, it's NOT just about the individual. | |||
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"Covid, brexit, politics, climate change, capitalism, socialism, rise of new super-powers, health & social services, religion taxation, human rights, technology, inner-city regeneration, etc. etc. ....... pick your continuum. Surely the more incisive question is why is human discord ‘apparently’ more prevalent now than seemingly ever before? Lack of education, social media, hashtag culture, everyone's rights to do whatever they choose free from consequence, lack of parental guidance, lack of leadership, lack of community, culture of selfishness,.... And on... " Then this is the 'end of days' ....... | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x" I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? " I would say in general the symptoms are a lot less severe after being vaccinated just going by the death rates and hospitalisation numbers. Of course that can’t be guaranteed for any individual but I’d say the numbers don’t lie | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither!" Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr" I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. | |||
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"Society these days seems to have become more polarised on almost everything, COVID/immigration/Brexit/EU/politics. Personally I blame our media as it creates good headlines which sells their products but politicians pandering to the media or populist agendas doesn't help." Perhaps the media is just another continuum for people to position themselves on and challenge opponents ...... understanding why humanity is reacting with so much division today is surely the greater goal? | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? I would say in general the symptoms are a lot less severe after being vaccinated just going by the death rates and hospitalisation numbers. Of course that can’t be guaranteed for any individual but I’d say the numbers don’t lie " The numbers don’t and can’t be used ..:. For that argument …. Btw if all the people who were knocking on heavens door were not here any more the numbers being let through would, naturally, decrease!! | |||
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"Society these days seems to have become more polarised on almost everything, COVID/immigration/Brexit/EU/politics. Personally I blame our media as it creates good headlines which sells their products but politicians pandering to the media or populist agendas doesn't help. Perhaps the media is just another continuum for people to position themselves on and challenge opponents ...... understanding why humanity is reacting with so much division today is surely the greater goal?" Nice cock x | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? I would say in general the symptoms are a lot less severe after being vaccinated just going by the death rates and hospitalisation numbers. Of course that can’t be guaranteed for any individual but I’d say the numbers don’t lie The numbers don’t and can’t be used ..:. For that argument …. Btw if all the people who were knocking on heavens door were not here any more the numbers being let through would, naturally, decrease!!" what??? | |||
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"Unfortunately most people who have opted to not be vaccinated are too often lumped as "anti-vaxxers" even though most have other vaccines up to date and their children's immunisation is up to date (like me). It insults my intelligence when people accuse me of repeating conspiracy theories when I have a medical background, can interpret data and have spent more time pouring over peer reviewed research than most. The doctors and specialists that have urged caution have made a more compelling argument than the ones peddling a "vaccinate, vaccinate vaccinate" narrative 24/7. I've done a risk / benefit analysis which everyone is entitled to do before submitting to any medical procedure and came to the conclusion that it doesn't benefit me. Simple. I have nothing against whoever thinks differently and they can opt for whatever they want. I DO have a problem when attempts at imposing the other viewpoint is made. When passions run high it's very easy for discourse to become more billegerent and based more on emotion than reason. Personally I observe this far more from the pro vaccine quarter. Especially the ones defending mandates with penalties for non compliance." | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? I would say in general the symptoms are a lot less severe after being vaccinated just going by the death rates and hospitalisation numbers. Of course that can’t be guaranteed for any individual but I’d say the numbers don’t lie The numbers don’t and can’t be used ..:. For that argument …. Btw if all the people who were knocking on heavens door were not here any more the numbers being let through would, naturally, decrease!! what???" Which bit? | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " Well done agree with all you said regarding anger i cant see why the people who had jabs what difference do it make about unjabbed is it because they dont feel protected ? As for anger thats our world too much hate and no respect for each other to much greed too much technolidgy taking away our human instinks far more love in the annimal kingdom | |||
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"What’s the old saying, If you are not part of the solution You are part of the problem. " And that other …”a nods as good as a wink to a blind man on a galloping horse” …. I prefer that one | |||
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"What’s the old saying, If you are not part of the solution You are part of the problem. " The fascist motto basically | |||
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"What’s the old saying, If you are not part of the solution You are part of the problem. The fascist motto basically " 
Don’t you think mines more fun! | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? I would say in general the symptoms are a lot less severe after being vaccinated just going by the death rates and hospitalisation numbers. Of course that can’t be guaranteed for any individual but I’d say the numbers don’t lie The numbers don’t and can’t be used ..:. For that argument …. Btw if all the people who were knocking on heavens door were not here any more the numbers being let through would, naturally, decrease!! what??? Which bit?" surely the numbers can be used in this debate? Hard to see that the vaccine has not been the main reason for the drop in numbers? | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. " It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day….  | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day…. "OK please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Let's see who can add up and do percentages  | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. " This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? I would say in general the symptoms are a lot less severe after being vaccinated just going by the death rates and hospitalisation numbers. Of course that can’t be guaranteed for any individual but I’d say the numbers don’t lie Imagine though, like many, your on your deathbed…. Knowingly or unknowingly …. The slightest thing is going to be the end for you … and a Covid infection happens to be the thing….. figures would rise… lots of the people who may have been susceptible to … well anything… have something come along…. And they die…. Maybe a month early maybe a year but they’re gone… a tad quicker than the norm. That leaves a hole because 6pm the worth have gone between one and six months early…. There may be a drop in deaths with Covid? Align this with the vaccine and you have the obvious reason…. It’s the vaccine and those without it are murderers!! Is that ok? The figures cannot show the effect of the vaccine as we can never know the effects on the vaccinated without the vaccination. We can never know the effects on the unvaccinated because they weren’t vaccinated. The numbers don’t and can’t be used ..:. For that argument …. Btw if all the people who were knocking on heavens door were not here any more the numbers being let through would, naturally, decrease!! what??? Which bit? surely the numbers can be used in this debate? Hard to see that the vaccine has not been the main reason for the drop in numbers? " | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day….
OK please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Let's see who can add up and do percentages "If we say that the split in those eligible to be vaccinated is somewhere close to 90/10.. If the 10% unvaccinated account for 1/3 of the ICU cases……….. (I’ll let the lightbulb dawn on you) | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day….
OK please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Let's see who can add up and do percentages
If we say that the split in those eligible to be vaccinated is somewhere close to 90/10..
If the 10% unvaccinated account for 1/3 of the ICU cases……….. (I’ll let the lightbulb dawn on you) "Yawn. So it's you that can't add up and do percentages. Glad we cleared that up. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x I’m sure someone’s already said … but here goes sorry if it’s a repeat later… you’ve had three jabs got covid and the illness was vile….. the vaccine made you I’ll too…. How do you know it would be worse without? I would say in general the symptoms are a lot less severe after being vaccinated just going by the death rates and hospitalisation numbers. Of course that can’t be guaranteed for any individual but I’d say the numbers don’t lie Imagine though, like many, your on your deathbed…. Knowingly or unknowingly …. The slightest thing is going to be the end for you … and a Covid infection happens to be the thing….. figures would rise… lots of the people who may have been susceptible to … well anything… have something come along…. And they die…. Maybe a month early maybe a year but they’re gone… a tad quicker than the norm. That leaves a hole because 6pm the worth have gone between one and six months early…. There may be a drop in deaths with Covid? Align this with the vaccine and you have the obvious reason…. It’s the vaccine and those without it are murderers!! Is that ok? The figures cannot show the effect of the vaccine as we can never know the effects on the vaccinated without the vaccination. We can never know the effects on the unvaccinated because they weren’t vaccinated. The numbers don’t and can’t be used ..:. For that argument …. Btw if all the people who were knocking on heavens door were not here any more the numbers being let through would, naturally, decrease!! what??? Which bit? surely the numbers can be used in this debate? Hard to see that the vaccine has not been the main reason for the drop in numbers? " Sorry my reply, without hate or anger, was deleted. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed." Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... " This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. " Wasn't the question that was asked though was it | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it "agreed tho tbf I'm not sure if the fabrication was the ICU claim or that unvacc who have caught covid have as much protection as vaccinated
(Which then depends on time since vaccine and type of vaccine... And if the person who has covid is actually producing antibodies)
And we go thru this loop again !! | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it agreed tho tbf I'm not sure if the fabrication was the ICU claim or that unvacc who have caught covid have as much protection as vaccinated
(Which then depends on time since vaccine and type of vaccine... And if the person who has covid is actually producing antibodies)
And we go thru this loop again !!"Did you see New York is offering boosters to all ages over 18 now? Other countries are classifying people as unvaccinated if they don't take the booster. What does that tell you about how long your vaccine protection lasts? | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. " Both numbers are important and for different reasons. However... It is absolute numbers not rates that are treated and also when comments are made such as unvaccinated make up more of those being treated... Very clearly they don't. However, to the question do vaccines work...? Yes for most people for some of the time. And to the question do vaccines reduce serious illness and death ... Clearly they do in general for the period that they are effective. Different answers to different questions. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Both numbers are important and for different reasons. However... It is absolute numbers not rates that are treated and also when comments are made such as unvaccinated make up more of those being treated... Very clearly they don't. However, to the question do vaccines work...? Yes for most people for some of the time. And to the question do vaccines reduce serious illness and death ... Clearly they do in general for the period that they are effective. Different answers to different questions. " 100% agree. But as we can see, there's one side that jumps to insults and accusations rather than clarifications. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it "So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated… So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine) Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers….. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it agreed tho tbf I'm not sure if the fabrication was the ICU claim or that unvacc who have caught covid have as much protection as vaccinated
(Which then depends on time since vaccine and type of vaccine... And if the person who has covid is actually producing antibodies)
And we go thru this loop again !!
Did you see New York is offering boosters to all ages over 18 now? Other countries are classifying people as unvaccinated if they don't take the booster. What does that tell you about how long your vaccine protection lasts? "NY is allowing boosters after 6 months. Not an FDA number tho. Now I don't know why six months is the number and at what level of cover NY and other countries want people to be at. Natural immunity is something like 65pc. Irrc Pfizer is still above 70 at six months. So if my memory has served, the powers that be want a greater level of protection than natural. And if vaccine effectiveness drops from 80 to 60, that's twice the hospitalisations. (I may have abused some maths there. It's late). | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Both numbers are important and for different reasons. However... It is absolute numbers not rates that are treated and also when comments are made such as unvaccinated make up more of those being treated... Very clearly they don't. However, to the question do vaccines work...? Yes for most people for some of the time. And to the question do vaccines reduce serious illness and death ... Clearly they do in general for the period that they are effective. Different answers to different questions. " I don't disagree, which is why in a previous thread I threw out taking an age based approach. We need to focus on older unvaccinated to get the biggest bang. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed." Directly from the British Medical Journal: " 40?000 patients with covid-19 who were admitted to hospital between December 2020 and July 2021 a total of 33?496 (84%) had not been vaccinated. It found that 5198 (13%) of these patients had received their first vaccine and 1274 (3%) their second." You, sir, are dangerous. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it
So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated…
So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine)
Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers….. "Seems you have difficulty understanding the question that was asked. Try scrolling up. Other people get it so not sure why you don't. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it agreed tho tbf I'm not sure if the fabrication was the ICU claim or that unvacc who have caught covid have as much protection as vaccinated
(Which then depends on time since vaccine and type of vaccine... And if the person who has covid is actually producing antibodies)
And we go thru this loop again !!
Did you see New York is offering boosters to all ages over 18 now? Other countries are classifying people as unvaccinated if they don't take the booster. What does that tell you about how long your vaccine protection lasts? "Someone on another thread captured this challenge very nicely and I'll try to get it right here as it merits a pause for thought...it went something like this... At the same time as we try to convince people who have not yet been vaccinated twice, that the vaccine is effective and must be taken, we try to convince people who have been vaccinated twice that the vaccine is not effective and they need a booster. It would be interesting to know if one has been double jabbed and then months later catches covid, how effective a "boost" that is when compared to a third jab. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Directly from the British Medical Journal: " 40?000 patients with covid-19 who were admitted to hospital between December 2020 and July 2021 a total of 33?496 (84%) had not been vaccinated. It found that 5198 (13%) of these patients had received their first vaccine and 1274 (3%) their second." You, sir, are dangerous." No you're just dishonest. The OP asked about the current hospitalisations, not the ones 11 months ago. Try answering the question that was asked. I'll ask you again: please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it
So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated…
So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine)
Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers…..
Seems you have difficulty understanding the question that was asked. Try scrolling up. Other people get it so not sure why you don't. "What… you mean that the total number of those infected is high amongst those that are vaccinated because there are 10 times more people that have been vaccinated… well.. duh! You see, what a statistician would do is calculate things on an equal basis… so is 90% of people account for 2/3 of the ICU cases … and the other 10% account for the other 1/3… if all things were equal, which group of would have the greater chance of ending up in ICU? So what you are spouting is dangerous…. And incorrect! | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it
So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated…
So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine)
Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers…..
Seems you have difficulty understanding the question that was asked. Try scrolling up. Other people get it so not sure why you don't.
What… you mean that the total number of those infected is high amongst those that are vaccinated because there are 10 times more people that have been vaccinated… well.. duh!
You see, what a statistician would do is calculate things on an equal basis… so is 90% of people account for 2/3 of the ICU cases … and the other 10% account for the other 1/3… if all things were equal, which group of would have the greater chance of ending up in ICU?
So what you are spouting is dangerous…. And incorrect!
"Im answering the question that was asked. If you don't like the question that was asked then discuss it with the asker. You're the one that came out with insults about maths when actually... you're wrong. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Both numbers are important and for different reasons. However... It is absolute numbers not rates that are treated and also when comments are made such as unvaccinated make up more of those being treated... Very clearly they don't. However, to the question do vaccines work...? Yes for most people for some of the time. And to the question do vaccines reduce serious illness and death ... Clearly they do in general for the period that they are effective. Different answers to different questions. I don't disagree, which is why in a previous thread I threw out taking an age based approach. We need to focus on older unvaccinated to get the biggest bang. " Absolutely agree.. If you add unvaccinated and waning effectiveness.. ... However it feels like the focus is on the soft touch of the kids...where benefit is minimal, It feels very much like... "infections and admissions rates are rising, we must do something.... Jab loads of kids twice .. that will be perceived as doing something"... Perhaps doing both would be more effective? But then we come back to risk / benefit for young kids. Which I think has already been covered. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it
So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated…
So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine)
Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers…..
Seems you have difficulty understanding the question that was asked. Try scrolling up. Other people get it so not sure why you don't.
What… you mean that the total number of those infected is high amongst those that are vaccinated because there are 10 times more people that have been vaccinated… well.. duh!
You see, what a statistician would do is calculate things on an equal basis… so is 90% of people account for 2/3 of the ICU cases … and the other 10% account for the other 1/3… if all things were equal, which group of would have the greater chance of ending up in ICU?
So what you are spouting is dangerous…. And incorrect!
Im answering the question that was asked. If you don't like the question that was asked then discuss it with the asker. You're the one that came out with insults about maths when actually... you're wrong. "Nope… because if it made no difference if someone was vaccinated or not.. then you would find that 90% of the ICU case would be from the vaccinated… and the other 10% of ICU cases from those unvaccinated on the ratio’s we know But we know that is not the case from the very statement you made about the 2/3 to 1/3 ratio of ICU cases…… So proportionately you have a greater chance ending up in ICU if you are…………. (Fill in the blank!) | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it
So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated…
So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine)
Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers…..
Seems you have difficulty understanding the question that was asked. Try scrolling up. Other people get it so not sure why you don't.
What… you mean that the total number of those infected is high amongst those that are vaccinated because there are 10 times more people that have been vaccinated… well.. duh!
You see, what a statistician would do is calculate things on an equal basis… so is 90% of people account for 2/3 of the ICU cases … and the other 10% account for the other 1/3… if all things were equal, which group of would have the greater chance of ending up in ICU?
So what you are spouting is dangerous…. And incorrect!
Im answering the question that was asked. If you don't like the question that was asked then discuss it with the asker. You're the one that came out with insults about maths when actually... you're wrong.
Nope… because if it made no difference if someone was vaccinated or not.. then you would find that 90% of the ICU case would be from the vaccinated… and the other 10% of ICU cases from those unvaccinated on the ratio’s we know
But we know that is not the case from the very statement you made about the 2/3 to 1/3 ratio of ICU cases……
So proportionately you have a greater chance ending up in ICU if you are…………. (Fill in the blank!)"You can keep repeating the question that you think should have been asked and i'll keep referring you to the question that was ask. Not my fault you look stupid for insulting my maths skills. | |||
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"Because vaccinations of highly infectious diseases are more effect the more people that have it. So by not having it you are lowering its ability to protect everyone, putting others at risk That’s my understanding. " I believe even when you're vaccinated you can still transmit/contact the virus. But if you're vaccinated you should be safe from the unvaxxed? Unless you don't think it works. My thinking | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. " Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse."But you're vaccinated? Surely you're safe from the unvaxxed? Or unless you think the vaccine doesn't work and don't trust it? I personally don't feel comfortable handing over private medical data for the whole world to see. It's not effective and it is unethical. Can i ask if you agree with all the NHS staff that are allowed to work through winter but then will lose their jobs and livelihoods in the new year because of a personal choice? | |||
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"As Aldous Huxley said: ‘The surest way to work up a crusade in favour of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behaviour “righteous indignation” - this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats’ " Deep | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. " Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it
So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated…
So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine)
Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers…..
Seems you have difficulty understanding the question that was asked. Try scrolling up. Other people get it so not sure why you don't. "To be fair to everyone my “hypothesis” was framed around absolute numbers rather than proportion. In terms of using up NHS resources absolute numbers are obviously important. In terms of efficacy of vaccine vs being unvaccinated it is the proportion of that “population” that matters. My bad! | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. " Keep fighting the good fight OP. Never ever feel bullied into a trial drug with no longterm studies. Especially if your health is at risk. Well done for standing uo to modern day tyranny | |||
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| Reply privately |
"As Aldous Huxley said: ‘The surest way to work up a crusade in favour of some good cause is to promise people they will have a chance of maltreating someone. To be able to destroy with good conscience, to be able to behave badly and call your bad behaviour “righteous indignation” - this is the height of psychological luxury, the most delicious of moral treats’ Deep "Indeed, but sums up the last 18 months on here | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. Keep fighting the good fight OP. Never ever feel bullied into a trial drug with no longterm studies. Especially if your health is at risk. Well done for standing uo to modern day tyranny" Have no problem with some not getting vaccinated, it's their choice. What I don't like is people making that decision with untruths. Like saying any of the vaccines is a trial drug absolute hogwash. We do not have any long term studies on the effects of covid but all the studies so far say there is a good chance of long term damage from natural covid infection and the vaccine really is pretty much the only game in town at the moment. Make decisions using proper science and data not crap copied and pasted round Facebook or telegram. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse."Totally agree! | |||
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| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse.
But you're vaccinated? Surely you're safe from the unvaxxed? Or unless you think the vaccine doesn't work and don't trust it? I personally don't feel comfortable handing over private medical data for the whole world to see. It's not effective and it is unethical. Can i ask if you agree with all the NHS staff that are allowed to work through winter but then will lose their jobs and livelihoods in the new year because of a personal choice? "This
Unvaccinated NHS workers are SUCH an unprecedented risk to service users that they will lose their jobs but they’re ok to get the hospitals through the busy winter period first?
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. Keep fighting the good fight OP. Never ever feel bullied into a trial drug with no longterm studies. Especially if your health is at risk. Well done for standing uo to modern day tyranny" | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. " I apologise it was a later poster hence the (I think). I tried then highlighting the response which was a bit unpleasant | |||
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| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. Keep fighting the good fight OP. Never ever feel bullied into a trial drug with no longterm studies. Especially if your health is at risk. Well done for standing uo to modern day tyranny Have no problem with some not getting vaccinated, it's their choice. What I don't like is people making that decision with untruths. Like saying any of the vaccines is a trial drug absolute hogwash. We do not have any long term studies on the effects of covid but all the studies so far say there is a good chance of long term damage from natural covid infection and the vaccine really is pretty much the only game in town at the moment. Make decisions using proper science and data not crap copied and pasted round Facebook or telegram." Not on Facebook or telegram. There is no longterm data. It is a trial drug until 2023 (NHS website) it has been made abundently clear that it is a trial drug. What i don't get why the vaccinated are still so scared. You're safe/protected right? Or do you think it's not working? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse.
But you're vaccinated? Surely you're safe from the unvaxxed? Or unless you think the vaccine doesn't work and don't trust it? I personally don't feel comfortable handing over private medical data for the whole world to see. It's not effective and it is unethical. Can i ask if you agree with all the NHS staff that are allowed to work through winter but then will lose their jobs and livelihoods in the new year because of a personal choice?
This
Unvaccinated NHS workers are SUCH an unprecedented risk to service users that they will lose their jobs but they’re ok to get the hospitals through the busy winter period first?
"And i bet everyone who agrees they should lose their job still say protect the NHS and 12 months ago went outside to clap the NHS. It is a "Global Pandemic" so bad the world has completely changed in the last 2 years. But then they can afford to terminate 10's of if not 100's of thousands of NHS workers. Absolutely bonkers | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse.
But you're vaccinated? Surely you're safe from the unvaxxed? Or unless you think the vaccine doesn't work and don't trust it? I personally don't feel comfortable handing over private medical data for the whole world to see. It's not effective and it is unethical. Can i ask if you agree with all the NHS staff that are allowed to work through winter but then will lose their jobs and livelihoods in the new year because of a personal choice?
This
Unvaccinated NHS workers are SUCH an unprecedented risk to service users that they will lose their jobs but they’re ok to get the hospitals through the busy winter period first?
And i bet everyone who agrees they should lose their job still say protect the NHS and 12 months ago went outside to clap the NHS. It is a "Global Pandemic" so bad the world has completely changed in the last 2 years. But then they can afford to terminate 10's of if not 100's of thousands of NHS workers. Absolutely bonkers"Heroes one minute and being sacked the next. Who would have thought this would be the world that we live in. 2018, no one would believe the content of this forum? Not me. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. Keep fighting the good fight OP. Never ever feel bullied into a trial drug with no longterm studies. Especially if your health is at risk. Well done for standing uo to modern day tyranny Have no problem with some not getting vaccinated, it's their choice. What I don't like is people making that decision with untruths. Like saying any of the vaccines is a trial drug absolute hogwash. We do not have any long term studies on the effects of covid but all the studies so far say there is a good chance of long term damage from natural covid infection and the vaccine really is pretty much the only game in town at the moment. Make decisions using proper science and data not crap copied and pasted round Facebook or telegram. Not on Facebook or telegram. There is no longterm data. It is a trial drug until 2023 (NHS website) it has been made abundently clear that it is a trial drug. What i don't get why the vaccinated are still so scared. You're safe/protected right? Or do you think it's not working?" is it a trial drug ? Or are there just ongoing trials? May feel like semantics but are different. Be interested to see the NHS page ... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. Keep fighting the good fight OP. Never ever feel bullied into a trial drug with no longterm studies. Especially if your health is at risk. Well done for standing uo to modern day tyranny Have no problem with some not getting vaccinated, it's their choice. What I don't like is people making that decision with untruths. Like saying any of the vaccines is a trial drug absolute hogwash. We do not have any long term studies on the effects of covid but all the studies so far say there is a good chance of long term damage from natural covid infection and the vaccine really is pretty much the only game in town at the moment. Make decisions using proper science and data not crap copied and pasted round Facebook or telegram. Not on Facebook or telegram. There is no longterm data. It is a trial drug until 2023 (NHS website) it has been made abundently clear that it is a trial drug. What i don't get why the vaccinated are still so scared. You're safe/protected right? Or do you think it's not working?is it a trial drug ? Or are there just ongoing trials? May feel like semantics but are different. Be interested to see the NHS page ..." It seems to be the “go to”, to accuse others of finding their information from Facebook or from Bob down the local. Not sure why this keeps being trotted out as nowadays, peer reviewed articles are more accessible than ever! PubMed is my usual go to and anyone can access articles there. There are lots of really reputable sources now. I’m currently reading an article that has found that natural immunity is more effective against the delta variant when compared to vaccine response. I’m by no means “Covid obsessed” and certainly won’t be spouting stats but I always use a reputable source. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse.
But you're vaccinated? Surely you're safe from the unvaxxed? Or unless you think the vaccine doesn't work and don't trust it? I personally don't feel comfortable handing over private medical data for the whole world to see. It's not effective and it is unethical. Can i ask if you agree with all the NHS staff that are allowed to work through winter but then will lose their jobs and livelihoods in the new year because of a personal choice?
This
Unvaccinated NHS workers are SUCH an unprecedented risk to service users that they will lose their jobs but they’re ok to get the hospitals through the busy winter period first?
"Can we fire them after I've had my appointment first please? Luckily I don't encounter any of this in the real world and it just seems to be a media and fab phenomenon. That an airborne infection cna be boiled down to a binary vax / Unvax argument is bizarre. It's as if people's behaviours, and environments, and health have no impact on things. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse.
But you're vaccinated? Surely you're safe from the unvaxxed? Or unless you think the vaccine doesn't work and don't trust it? I personally don't feel comfortable handing over private medical data for the whole world to see. It's not effective and it is unethical. Can i ask if you agree with all the NHS staff that are allowed to work through winter but then will lose their jobs and livelihoods in the new year because of a personal choice?
This
Unvaccinated NHS workers are SUCH an unprecedented risk to service users that they will lose their jobs but they’re ok to get the hospitals through the busy winter period first?
Can we fire them after I've had my appointment first please? Luckily I don't encounter any of this in the real world and it just seems to be a media and fab phenomenon. That an airborne infection cna be boiled down to a binary vax / Unvax argument is bizarre. It's as if people's behaviours, and environments, and health have no impact on things. "what gets measured gets managed. And only things which can be measured, are measured. We either treat the population as one (as we did at the start) or we break down into groups. These groups need to be easily defined. Vax v unvacced is easy. I'd consider adding in age (if legal). Weight, smoking status, flossing habits etc are harder to measure. It's just like brexit, eh ? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think it's because people are afraid, it's the not knowing that scares them. That's possibly one of the reasons why. I am double jabbed and proud of it x" I’m unjabbed and proud of my decision too | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x" How do you know it would of been worse??? I’m unjabbed and currently have Covid .. it’s the flu with a bad cough and I had the flu 8yrs ago so I know .. | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x How do you know it would of been worse??? I’m unjabbed and currently have Covid .. it’s the flu with a bad cough and I had the flu 8yrs ago so I know .." Not challenging how you feel (as I cannot possibly know) but do you really feel like flu rather than a very bad cold? I’ve had lots of bad colds in my life. Felt awful. Had Flu twice in my life and actually felt like I was dying. Certainly would not have been well enough to be typing on social media! Everything hurt. Everything, even lying still. All I could do was sleep. Sometimes tears as breathing hurt and being short of breath was scary. However you feel though, truly hope you get better quickly. | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. " This thread is a pretty good example of that | |||
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"Pretty sure some of our resident experts will be able to reference some supporting/disproving data but I will hypothesise that: 1) Most infections are now being caused by people who are vaccinated (due to sheer volume of people). 2) Most hospitalisations and deaths are people who are unvaccinated (as they have less protection). I wonder which group has the greater right to be angry? For the record (as per my post above) I think the answer is neither! Nope, 2/3 people in ICU are vaccinated. Unvaccinated do not have less protection if they were previously infected. This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation? Another person who can't add up. If it's wrong, which it's not, please give me the figures for covid cases resulting in emergency care between weeks 41 and 44 split between vaccinated, single jabbed and double jabbed. Hint... For those struggling... Look at the weekly covid surveillance report.... This always comes up. Absolute numbers: vaccinated win (or is that lose?). Per 100k, unvacc win (lose?) Imo the second number is important. Wasn't the question that was asked though was it
So you are smirking because a statistician would use the words “all things being equal” which in this case they are not because it’s a 90/10 split between the vaccinated and unvaccinated…
So the point still stands in the misinformation you are putting out (which is dangerous) the “10” account for the 1/3 of ICU cases (your words, not mine)
Again… let’s see if the lightbulb flickers…..
Seems you have difficulty understanding the question that was asked. Try scrolling up. Other people get it so not sure why you don't.
To be fair to everyone my “hypothesis” was framed around absolute numbers rather than proportion.
In terms of using up NHS resources absolute numbers are obviously important.
In terms of efficacy of vaccine vs being unvaccinated it is the proportion of that “population” that matters.
My bad!"Absolute figures matter when you're dealing with a fixed number of hospital beds. Certain people just threw their toys out the pram because an absolute question didn't allow them to get their predictable talking points in. | |||
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"I had both jabs and booster Still got covid it's like something I have never had before it was vile had I not had the jabs it would have been worse x How do you know it would of been worse??? I’m unjabbed and currently have Covid .. it’s the flu with a bad cough and I had the flu 8yrs ago so I know .. Not challenging how you feel (as I cannot possibly know) but do you really feel like flu rather than a very bad cold? I’ve had lots of bad colds in my life. Felt awful. Had Flu twice in my life and actually felt like I was dying. Certainly would not have been well enough to be typing on social media! Everything hurt. Everything, even lying still. All I could do was sleep. Sometimes tears as breathing hurt and being short of breath was scary. However you feel though, truly hope you get better quickly." Just to add - sorry if that sounds like I don’t believe you or are calling you out, not my intent. Just that the whole Cold v Flu thing is a massive bugbear of mine. When people at work phone in sick saying they have the flu my normal response is “you have a bad cold, get better” because truth is if they had flu they wouldn’t be making that phone call. I blame advertising for thing like Lemsip that have painted people with cold as slackers who can just take their product and get back into work (spreading the cold to everyone). It has downgraded colds to being totally mild. Some are, some aren’t but they are not flu! Rant over! | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of that" really ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of thatreally ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. " "It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day" "This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" "Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk" - from someone denying the science of natural immunity | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of thatreally ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. "It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day" "This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" "Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk" - from someone denying the science of natural immunity "okay. Not great debating bit I'd not have said horrid. Maybe I'm desensitised. Btw any studies on natural immunity etc? I know you're someone who reads into stuff. | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of thatreally ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. "It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day" "This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" "Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk" - from someone denying the science of natural immunity okay. Not great debating bit I'd not have said horrid. Maybe I'm desensitised.
Btw any studies on natural immunity etc? I know you're someone who reads into stuff. "In what sense? Hundreds confirming its validity. The Israeli study showing its better than vaccine immunity and of course a bullshit CDC study designed to counter that. I also know some people paying for tests to confirm it lasts much longer than 6 months. Actually the proportion of people with natural immunity, is reported in NHS stats, not that you'd know from reading this forum where ~70% don't seem to understand the concept. | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of thatreally ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. "It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day" "This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" "Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk" - from someone denying the science of natural immunity okay. Not great debating bit I'd not have said horrid. Maybe I'm desensitised.
Btw any studies on natural immunity etc? I know you're someone who reads into stuff.
In what sense? Hundreds confirming its validity. The Israeli study showing its better than vaccine immunity and of course a bullshit CDC study designed to counter that. I also know some people paying for tests to confirm it lasts much longer than 6 months. Actually the proportion of people with natural immunity, is reported in NHS stats, not that you'd know from reading this forum where ~70% don't seem to understand the concept. "studies to show how much protection it gives and how long it lasts. And if everyone who has been affected have immunity. It seems taken as read natural immunity is great. I've not seen too many studies that's all (my covid reading has slowed) and so intrigued what you have seen. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. " I think I answered your question a long, long way up this thread. The posts on this thread also answers your question. Nobody cares what you asked they just use your thread to spout their opinion, same names, same faces. Hopefully, in the not too distant future FAB will return to a swingers / sex site. | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of thatreally ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. "It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day" "This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" "Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk" - from someone denying the science of natural immunity okay. Not great debating bit I'd not have said horrid. Maybe I'm desensitised.
Btw any studies on natural immunity etc? I know you're someone who reads into stuff.
In what sense? Hundreds confirming its validity. The Israeli study showing its better than vaccine immunity and of course a bullshit CDC study designed to counter that. I also know some people paying for tests to confirm it lasts much longer than 6 months. Actually the proportion of people with natural immunity, is reported in NHS stats, not that you'd know from reading this forum where ~70% don't seem to understand the concept. studies to show how much protection it gives and how long it lasts. And if everyone who has been affected have immunity. It seems taken as read natural immunity is great. I've not seen too many studies that's all (my covid reading has slowed) and so intrigued what you have seen. "It's hard to answer that honestly, what is protection? Preventing another positive case that you wouldn't have known you had if you didn't test? Preventing hospitalisation or death second time round? Simply taking less days to recover? The headline figure from the Israeli study is that if you rely on vaccine immunity alone, you're 7x more likely to get a symptomatic case and more likely to need hospital treatment. With all this stuff, it's impossible to track exposure in the real world so it all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. But we know reinfection rates in natural immunity are very rare, when they happen they tend to be new variants and or people with very bad health. Obesity is again a massive problem which is why I give no credibility to studies done in fucking Kansas. In simple terms, the problems of obesity prevent your T cells doing what they should. So if you're obese it's possible you were infected but didn't develop natural immunity. I simply don't care about this because obese people should get fucking vaccinated anyway. Or lose weight. Maybe both. | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of thatreally ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. "It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day" "This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" "Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk" - from someone denying the science of natural immunity okay. Not great debating bit I'd not have said horrid. Maybe I'm desensitised.
Btw any studies on natural immunity etc? I know you're someone who reads into stuff.
In what sense? Hundreds confirming its validity. The Israeli study showing its better than vaccine immunity and of course a bullshit CDC study designed to counter that. I also know some people paying for tests to confirm it lasts much longer than 6 months. Actually the proportion of people with natural immunity, is reported in NHS stats, not that you'd know from reading this forum where ~70% don't seem to understand the concept. studies to show how much protection it gives and how long it lasts. And if everyone who has been affected have immunity. It seems taken as read natural immunity is great. I've not seen too many studies that's all (my covid reading has slowed) and so intrigued what you have seen.
It's hard to answer that honestly, what is protection? Preventing another positive case that you wouldn't have known you had if you didn't test? Preventing hospitalisation or death second time round? Simply taking less days to recover?
The headline figure from the Israeli study is that if you rely on vaccine immunity alone, you're 7x more likely to get a symptomatic case and more likely to need hospital treatment.
With all this stuff, it's impossible to track exposure in the real world so it all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. But we know reinfection rates in natural immunity are very rare, when they happen they tend to be new variants and or people with very bad health. Obesity is again a massive problem which is why I give no credibility to studies done in fucking Kansas. In simple terms, the problems of obesity prevent your T cells doing what they should. So if you're obese it's possible you were infected but didn't develop natural immunity. I simply don't care about this because obese people should get fucking vaccinated anyway. Or lose weight. Maybe both. "You simply don't care then why comment???? | |||
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" Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. This thread is a pretty good example of thatreally ? Which bits. Maybe I'm blind to the comments to non vaxxers. There were a few nods toward facists, but thats more about passports v no passports, not quite the same camps. "It is quotes like this when you find out who wasn’t very good at maths back in the day" "This is total fabrication. Why spread misinformation?" "Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk" - from someone denying the science of natural immunity okay. Not great debating bit I'd not have said horrid. Maybe I'm desensitised.
Btw any studies on natural immunity etc? I know you're someone who reads into stuff.
In what sense? Hundreds confirming its validity. The Israeli study showing its better than vaccine immunity and of course a bullshit CDC study designed to counter that. I also know some people paying for tests to confirm it lasts much longer than 6 months. Actually the proportion of people with natural immunity, is reported in NHS stats, not that you'd know from reading this forum where ~70% don't seem to understand the concept. studies to show how much protection it gives and how long it lasts. And if everyone who has been affected have immunity. It seems taken as read natural immunity is great. I've not seen too many studies that's all (my covid reading has slowed) and so intrigued what you have seen.
It's hard to answer that honestly, what is protection? Preventing another positive case that you wouldn't have known you had if you didn't test? Preventing hospitalisation or death second time round? Simply taking less days to recover?
The headline figure from the Israeli study is that if you rely on vaccine immunity alone, you're 7x more likely to get a symptomatic case and more likely to need hospital treatment.
With all this stuff, it's impossible to track exposure in the real world so it all needs to be taken with a pinch of salt. But we know reinfection rates in natural immunity are very rare, when they happen they tend to be new variants and or people with very bad health. Obesity is again a massive problem which is why I give no credibility to studies done in fucking Kansas. In simple terms, the problems of obesity prevent your T cells doing what they should. So if you're obese it's possible you were infected but didn't develop natural immunity. I simply don't care about this because obese people should get fucking vaccinated anyway. Or lose weight. Maybe both.
You simply don't care then why comment????"I'm starting to wonder if vaccination can affect people's reading comprehension | |||
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"It seems some still continue with the narrative that the unvaccinated are selfish and putting others at greater risk. (the ops original post highlighting this fact) I'd direct you to table 6 of the weekly covid surveillance report (so based on the best facts that we have available) and take a look at the rates per 100k of infections by age group for those vaccinated and not vaccinated. Very obviously there is more to managing infection rates than simply being jabbed... People's behaviours and environments and cultures and health all play a part in the spread or otherwise of this infection. But the rates are clearly shown. " But they won’t because the rates per 100k of the population don’t fit into the unvaccinated peoples narrative….so unless it hits them very close to home to someone they care about (and I would not wish that on anyone because I have been there and it’s a painful watch) then I don’t think you will get thru to them It’s not a shake they need.. it’s a “real” jolt… I have a blood disorder that makes me immunocompromised… my niece, who is now 12, wants to take it, but has been told she can’t because of her health conditions… I absolutely differentiate between those that can’t and those who won’t… My empathy will always be with those that can’t, my distain will always be with those who won’t | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. So you reasons are quite typical. I/my friend/family member had Covid and it wasn't bad... This is the same argument as "99.7% survive". Proponents of this type of argument always consider subjective experience to be of higher value than objective fact. The first step is to realise that the fact you only had mild symptoms (and the majority of people survive) whilst being absolutely true don't affect the severity of the problem. When you have large numbers (67 million or so people in this country), small percentages still mean major problems - in this case 143,000 dead people with an extra 150ish a day. Many of these would have died anyway but the above average death rate says not all. In fact, the ONS says just under 100,000 more deaths than normal occurred between March 2020 and July 2021. On top of this, as with many viruses, there is a high risk of long term problems- these are largely ignored in the statistics but add up to hundreds of thousands of people affected. The facts are clear, no matter how mild it was for you or people you know, it has had a major impact on very many people. You mention reading stories of young people dying after being vaccinated. The first thing with such stories is to check they're actually true - in my experience the majority are false or have absolutely no evidence one way or the other. The second thing is to understand the figures. The same people who will say they don't need a vaccine for a virus with a 99.7% survival rate will be the ones screaming dire warnings against a vaccine with far far higher rates of "survival" - there have been something like 1.7 BILLION doses administered and any issues are all several orders of magnitude lower (hundreds, thousands or even tens of thousands) than those seen from the virus itself. Not taking a vaccine because of the tiny level of danger associated with it and choosing instead to risk the disease it protects against with far far higher risk levels is the most utterly stupid nonsensical logic possible to imagine. You last point is about not needing the vaccine due to having some immunity and tbh of all the points you raise is the only one with any merit. The data is still not entirely clear as far as I know but it seems that actual infection doesn't give as good an immune response as the vaccines but both have a finite effect. It is perfectly possible to catch the illness again and there is absolutely no garuntee it will be a mild the second time around. For this reason I would argue even this point is questionable, I will be accepting a booster as soon as it is offered precisely because there is no such thing as 100% imunity to Covid. To answer your question why the hate? People are arseholes. We are all entitled to our believes, we are all entitled to hold opinions on other peoples beliefs. That didn't entitle us to be unkind. Sadly, much like Brexit, but unlike say your choice of church, this is a situation though where other people's beliefs can and do have a direct impact on the lives of people with opposing views so sentiments run stronger. Personally I accept the idea that people are free to choose but don't accept the argument that restrictions on unvacinated people are unfair. We can all choose to do things knowing what the consequences are and as a society we have many many rules that govern how we behave for the good of all. The rules around vaccines are exactly the same. Don't want to go to prison? Don't kill people. Want to go to a club? Get a vaccine. Your life, your choices. Mr I like your aggressive tone throughout, then as a glimpse of welcoming light through the curtain you choose a point to agree with, then slate it! I don’t want to go to prison so I won’t kill people… the OP (I think) states double vac Ed with booster gets Covid and feels like shit…. The threatening undertone is ..”you’d have been worse without”…. Who knows that? How? Who’s had it without being jabbed …. Then had it again after being jabbed but without previously having it?? I haven’t had Covid…. Actually the OP (me) is very much unvaccinated thanks. Also I was asking why the two camps are so horrible to each other but it’s usually the vaccinated being horrible to unvaccinated. Keep fighting the good fight OP. Never ever feel bullied into a trial drug with no longterm studies. Especially if your health is at risk. Well done for standing uo to modern day tyranny Have no problem with some not getting vaccinated, it's their choice. What I don't like is people making that decision with untruths. Like saying any of the vaccines is a trial drug absolute hogwash. We do not have any long term studies on the effects of covid but all the studies so far say there is a good chance of long term damage from natural covid infection and the vaccine really is pretty much the only game in town at the moment. Make decisions using proper science and data not crap copied and pasted round Facebook or telegram. Not on Facebook or telegram. There is no longterm data. It is a trial drug until 2023 (NHS website) it has been made abundently clear that it is a trial drug. What i don't get why the vaccinated are still so scared. You're safe/protected right? Or do you think it's not working?is it a trial drug ? Or are there just ongoing trials? May feel like semantics but are different. Be interested to see the NHS page ..." I believe the vaccines are classed as a trial drug so that they can be administered under emergency use authorisation. Stand to be corrected though | |||
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"Why post this here?? Get vaccinated Reduce your probability of dying or severely ill Protect those around you End of This isn’t just my view, also the view of the kids if my three colleagues whom died before vaccines were available. All late forties/ early fifties , in good health. Get vaccinated OP" I had covid in September and apart from losing my smell completely for 5 days I’ve had worse colds. My daughter also caught it from me but was fine also. We’ve now got natural immunity to it. Also I have a super rare ‘condition’ if that’s what it’s called, hyperthymesia and every 3 years I go to Cardiff university hospital for them to study my brain and I have to do this till the end of my time on this earth. In May I was called in when I’m not due back there till September next year, there was a neurobiologist there from Finland and some other doctors and they all sat me down in a room and said for me not to be vaccinated. They gave me a covid exemption pass. That’s all my understanding of it. So I’m not allowed to have the vaccine and even when I die my brain goes to the university although they can study it better whilst I’m still alive and kicking. I did ask about whether I’d be safe and what if I caught covid cos I was absolutely terrified of it but they assured me that I would be fine if I caught it. Now they didn’t just say I’d be fine, they have my complete medical history from age 13 my height my weight my lung capacity a million things with my brain and they said although. Fuck the media I listen to the doctor who’s studied my brain for the last 25 years. | |||
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"So after yet another soon to be defunked forum thread on fabswingers with evidence of symptoms in abundance, what’s the conclusion and in a hopefully ‘succinct’ answer to the question ‘why the hatred?’" I’d argue this was answered way up the thread. Tribalism encouraged by ever so brave keyboard warrior tendencies and Social Media seemingly incapable of allowing for shades of grey in any discussion, only binary black & white viewpoints. | |||
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"So after yet another soon to be defunked forum thread on fabswingers with evidence of symptoms in abundance, what’s the conclusion and in a hopefully ‘succinct’ answer to the question ‘why the hatred?’" I would answer it with another question, (that’s always popular), where is the hatred? I just see people who disagree, you seem to see the word hate being used more and more to describe people who don’t share your opinion. | |||
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"See it everywhere, here, social media, overhearing peoples conversations. The name calling etc. Was reading the comments about the new Tesco advert which features father Xmas showing his covid pass. *Some* Unjabbed people saying they will boycott Tesco jabbed people saying good cos they can shop amongst sensible people and not idiots. Why such hate though? Why can’t vaccinated for about those business and non vaccinated people go about third without slagging each other off. Everyone is just doing what they think is best for themselves and their families. Personally I had Covid in September, lost my smell for 5 days and had a sniffle but in all honesty I’ve had worse colds in my life than Covid. My 11 year old daughter had it then, again sniffles nothing bad. I had my first covid test in work last Monday cos I had to give it 8 weeks and my test was negative. I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. Now I have natural antibodies I suppose. Same as my daughter. I’m not an antibaxer because I’ve had every injection you have as a kid and a teen. Same as my daughter. Just this one scares me. I don’t know who or what to believe. I do see a lot of these reports of healthy young people dying shortly after the jab. It’s just not something I want to take the risk. I’m lucky that I have a Covid exemption pass anyway from my neurologist but even if I wasn’t medically exempt I don’t think I would have it. Unvaccinated people are putting others at a much higher risk through the simple facts that they'll spread Covid at a greater rate and mutations that threaten the validity of the vaccine programme will mostly occur in the bodies of the unvaccinated. That's not up for debate, it's statistical and scientific fact. Both are happening right now. Why should you have to tolerate someone denying science and putting others around them at greater risk, especially if it's coupled with the selfish boast of "I'm not likely to die if I get it anyway!" - why should you have to tolerate dangerous levels of pig-headedness? You can't apply high school "Why don't we all just get along?" logic to the adult world because at this point in their lives people should supposedly be able to know better, when all we see is a bunch of babies who won't take responsibility for their actions and would sooner nestle in the bosom of a nice conspiracy theory that reaffirms their - frankly mental - belief that they're right and everyone else is simply a "sheeple". They'd sooner listen to information they've gleaned from Facebook memes or YouTube Doctors or far-right figures than an expert in their field...And you're seriously out here asking 'why such hate tho?'
Ask that question to those who have lost family members from Covid or ask that to those who are still living with the after effects of it today - ask that to us, who are still living with the after effects of it today. It's a stupid question and it deserves a stupid answer, but the more people that pull their head out of their arse, the better, and if this goes even 0.00000000001% of the way there then it was worth it.
*If you *can't* get the vaccine for whatever reason, you have our sympathies. If you *won't* get the vaccine, you need to seriously have a word with yourself. You're being conned or you're conning yourself, no idea which is worse.
But you're vaccinated? Surely you're safe from the unvaxxed? Or unless you think the vaccine doesn't work and don't trust it? I personally don't feel comfortable handing over private medical data for the whole world to see. It's not effective and it is unethical. Can i ask if you agree with all the NHS staff that are allowed to work through winter but then will lose their jobs and livelihoods in the new year because of a personal choice? "You're a complete and utter numpty. We're both double-vaccinated and actually had Covid again for a second time as recently as a few days ago (a lot less severe than unvaccinated Covid, might we add). So no, you're not 'safe from the unvaxxed' because the unvaxxed are the ones who are most likely to continue spreading it and producing mutations of the virus that will then pass on to - you guessed it - the vaccinated. Is that in some way difficult to understand for you? Do you need a picture book instead? Yes, we do think you should be vaccinated if you work in the NHS. And most NHS staff will get the vaccine voluntarily, so that won't be a huge issue. End of discussion. | |||
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" I’m glad I didn’t have a jab just to protect me from what I had cos luckily what I had was fuck all. " That's....not why you have it.... | |||
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" I believe the vaccines are classed as a trial drug so that they can be administered under emergency use authorisation. Stand to be corrected though" It's not. You're corrected. | |||
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"Why post this here?? Get vaccinated Reduce your probability of dying or severely ill Protect those around you End of This isn’t just my view, also the view of the kids if my three colleagues whom died before vaccines were available. All late forties/ early fifties , in good health. Get vaccinated OP I had covid in September and apart from losing my smell completely for 5 days I’ve had worse colds. My daughter also caught it from me but was fine also. We’ve now got natural immunity to it. Also I have a super rare ‘condition’ if that’s what it’s called, hyperthymesia and every 3 years I go to Cardiff university hospital for them to study my brain and I have to do this till the end of my time on this earth. In May I was called in when I’m not due back there till September next year, there was a neurobiologist there from Finland and some other doctors and they all sat me down in a room and said for me not to be vaccinated. They gave me a covid exemption pass. That’s all my understanding of it. So I’m not allowed to have the vaccine and even when I die my brain goes to the university although they can study it better whilst I’m still alive and kicking. I did ask about whether I’d be safe and what if I caught covid cos I was absolutely terrified of it but they assured me that I would be fine if I caught it. Now they didn’t just say I’d be fine, they have my complete medical history from age 13 my height my weight my lung capacity a million things with my brain and they said although. Fuck the media I listen to the doctor who’s studied my brain for the last 25 years. " What you're describing is completely different to how most people have arrived at the conclusion that they shouldn't get the vaccine. Most unvaccinated people who refuse to get the vaccine have arrived at that decision via the most common techniques of science denial: fake experts, logical fallacies, impossible expectations (typically of the vaccine), cherry picking information that suits their existing confirmation bias, and - last but not least - conspiracy theories. There are a few in this thread, most notably peddling the absolute myth that it is a 'trial drug', failing to make the distinction between an actual trial drug and a drug still going through trials after approval, as someone else has already pointed out. The reason there is such contempt for these people is because they pose a greater risk to wider society with their dangerous, anti-scientific views and spread misinformation like gospel. If you can't see how dangerous that is or understand why it would get people's back up then I really don't know what to say... | |||
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"But also people are scared of getting the vaccine. You can’t knock people because they are scared. There are cases where children have died suddenly not long after having the vaccine. Also you’d think common sense would prevail. You can’t blame unvaccinated people for spreading it around when vaccinated people can also spread it and catch it. If people are ill with covid they just don’t go out same as you do when you have the flu or the shits. You keep your distance from people cos you don’t want them to catch what you have. " There are cases where children have died suddenly after not having the vaccine. Anecdotal stuff like this means nothing. This is the modern equivalent of Nursey telling Blackadder he shouldn't cut his toenails, as she knew someone who cut his with a scythe and his foot fell off. | |||
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"But also people are scared of getting the vaccine. You can’t knock people because they are scared. There are cases where children have died suddenly not long after having the vaccine. Also you’d think common sense would prevail. You can’t blame unvaccinated people for spreading it around when vaccinated people can also spread it and catch it. If people are ill with covid they just don’t go out same as you do when you have the flu or the shits. You keep your distance from people cos you don’t want them to catch what you have. " Annie, do you have examples of these child deaths? I've seen ppl post a few articles but it's not even clear I'd they even had the vaccine. | |||
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" I believe the vaccines are classed as a trial drug so that they can be administered under emergency use authorisation. Stand to be corrected though It's not. You're corrected." care to elaborate? | |||
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"But also people are scared of getting the vaccine. You can’t knock people because they are scared. There are cases where children have died suddenly not long after having the vaccine. Also you’d think common sense would prevail. You can’t blame unvaccinated people for spreading it around when vaccinated people can also spread it and catch it. If people are ill with covid they just don’t go out same as you do when you have the flu or the shits. You keep your distance from people cos you don’t want them to catch what you have. Annie, do you have examples of these child deaths? I've seen ppl post a few articles but it's not even clear I'd they even had the vaccine. " A 13 year old boy in my daughters school died 11 days after having the vaccine. That was upsetting for all the kids. Healthy boy played rugby and football. | |||
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"But also people are scared of getting the vaccine. You can’t knock people because they are scared. There are cases where children have died suddenly not long after having the vaccine. Also you’d think common sense would prevail. You can’t blame unvaccinated people for spreading it around when vaccinated people can also spread it and catch it. If people are ill with covid they just don’t go out same as you do when you have the flu or the shits. You keep your distance from people cos you don’t want them to catch what you have. Annie, do you have examples of these child deaths? I've seen ppl post a few articles but it's not even clear I'd they even had the vaccine. A 13 year old boy in my daughters school died 11 days after having the vaccine. That was upsetting for all the kids. Healthy boy played rugby and football. " is this in the news? Even local? Ps either which way, that's horrible for all | |||
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" I believe the vaccines are classed as a trial drug so that they can be administered under emergency use authorisation. Stand to be corrected though It's not. You're corrected.care to elaborate?" Drugs that are approved can still be in trials. The vaccine(s), in the form that they are currently produced, are approved, for administering in the way in which the trials that they undertook showed that they were safe. But, science doesn't stop for lunch. It's always bettering better, and learning more. So these same drugs, will go on to have further trials. It is better if we give it 3 times, is it better if the patient administers it orally and gargle, what about if we get people to take these other drugs at the same time, what if we halve the dose and ask people to not eat bananas - ok all my examples are nonsense (because I don't have the knowledge to know what they are trialling) but the principle is sound, and scientific. Paracetamol is still used in trials. Performing trials and tests gives data to provide a better understanding of ways in which to improve the efficacy, speed, ease of production, cost and loads of other things. Don't let the word "trial" make you think "not proven". I once (genuinely) had someone ask me if Gravity was real, how come it's just a theory. This is a slightly less obviously silly take on the same fallacy. A theory can be proven. A trial will always be happening. | |||
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