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"Anyone working with vulnerable people should be vaccinated." It’s a no brainer isn’t it ? | |||
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"Anyone working with vulnerable people should be vaccinated."  | |||
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"Anyone working with vulnerable people should be vaccinated. It’s a no brainer isn’t it ?" Yes it is | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid " But greatly reduces the risk | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid " No but it's less likely..it's as much as they can do, or test every time before they care for these people. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk " | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk "What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated, | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,"You’re unaware of the reduction? That’s unfortunate As for the last sentence That makes no sense | |||
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"NSH staff must get other vaccinations before they practice. It’s mandatory. Why should this be any different? Surely it’s about duty of care. Same as care workers" Currently 92.2% of NHS workers ARE already vaccinated. | |||
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"Anyone working with vulnerable people should be vaccinated." I offered to stand aside until I could be vaccinated, in my voluntary work. I take my duty of care extremely seriously. | |||
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"Its absolutely no different from them having to have Hep-B and other such vaccinations to work in that sector https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-healthcare-workers-clearance-for-hepatitis-b-and-c-tb-hiv" Exactly | |||
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"Anyone working with vulnerable people should be vaccinated. I offered to stand aside until I could be vaccinated, in my voluntary work. I take my duty of care extremely seriously." Yes you do x | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
You’re unaware of the reduction?
That’s unfortunate
As for the last sentence
That makes no sense The vaccine stops most who are double jabbed from life threatening symptoms, it does not stop transmission or catching Covid what’s so hard to understand. ? "Aren't you less likely to catch it if you are vaccinated? | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,"Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active? Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit. The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well." | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 10/11/21 08:37:33]" If you can show me where someone has said it stops the transmission I’d appreciate it | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well."A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ? | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid " Exactly this. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ? "It does better than the polio vaccine does. Which is why polio continues to ravage the UK, yes? 
Repeating anti vax bollocks over and over then complaining when we don't agree with you doesn't make you right. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ? "No, but doesn't it reduce the possibility? | |||
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"Anyone working with vulnerable people should be vaccinated. I offered to stand aside until I could be vaccinated, in my voluntary work. I take my duty of care extremely seriously. Yes you do x" It's a pity that not everyone does 
We've seen the fragility of life front and centre, and some people won't even apply basic mitigations and believe that duties of care are for others. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ?
It does better than the polio vaccine does.
Which is why polio continues to ravage the UK, yes?
Repeating anti vax bollocks over and over then complaining when we don't agree with you doesn't make you right."When have we said do not get vaccinated ? We are not anti vaccine but just pointing out that being vaccinated does not stop you catching and passing on Covid , have to repeat because people like you don’t understand | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ? "I think we’ve already established and agreed that it great reduces the risk as opposed to 100% eradication. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ?
It does better than the polio vaccine does.
Which is why polio continues to ravage the UK, yes?
Repeating anti vax bollocks over and over then complaining when we don't agree with you doesn't make you right. When have we said do not get vaccinated ? We are not anti vaccine but just pointing out that being vaccinated does not stop you catching and passing on Covid , have to repeat because people like you don’t understand "I understand you very well. The view you're expressing is demonstrably incorrect, is an anti vax talking point (I did not say you were anti vax), and even if you repeated it until the end of time, it would not become more true. | |||
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"Its absolutely no different from them having to have Hep-B and other such vaccinations to work in that sector https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-healthcare-workers-clearance-for-hepatitis-b-and-c-tb-hiv" It is different. Isn't the hep b vaccination 1 dose for life cover? | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ? "Youve already had this question answered? It doesnt stop transmission but it greatly reduces the risk of serious illness/hospitalisation which in turn protects others around you or in those environments who are clinically vulnerable and who may not be lucky enough to survive. Are you going to keep asking until someone says something you agree with? | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ? "Being vaccinated doesnt STOP the transmission of covid. No vaccine is 100 percent effective and some who have been double or triple vaccinated will still catch and pass on covid BUT it does reduce the risk of catching on the first place and then passing the virus on. The irony is some of the most vulnerable to covid (and therefore more likely to die if they do catch it) can't have the vaccine for medical reasons or due to worry or personal choice hence the need for those carers who are paid to look after their care to do all they can to reduce the risk of giving them covid. This could be wearing appropriate ppe, reducing face to face contact AND having the vaccine to help protect them. Thankfully we live in a society where people are still free to choose but if you are working with clinically vulnerable people it seems reasonable for that employer to ask you to have a vaccine or get a job that doesn't involve seeing people face to face. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ?
Youve already had this question answered?
It doesnt stop transmission but it greatly reduces the risk of serious illness/hospitalisation which in turn protects others around you or in those environments who are clinically vulnerable and who may not be lucky enough to survive.
Are you going to keep asking until someone says something you agree with?"That is their pattern. Repeat it over and over and then tell us we don't understand. Also applies to masks. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ?
It does better than the polio vaccine does.
Which is why polio continues to ravage the UK, yes?
Repeating anti vax bollocks over and over then complaining when we don't agree with you doesn't make you right. When have we said do not get vaccinated ? We are not anti vaccine but just pointing out that being vaccinated does not stop you catching and passing on Covid , have to repeat because people like you don’t understand "And I repeat..does it not reduce the possibility? | |||
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"Its absolutely no different from them having to have Hep-B and other such vaccinations to work in that sector https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-healthcare-workers-clearance-for-hepatitis-b-and-c-tb-hiv It is different. Isn't the hep b vaccination 1 dose for life cover? " No...if youre in an at risk group...such as sleeping with multiple partners...you should have them at regular intervals. I have them as part of my sexual health check ups. https://www.nhs.uk/conditions/vaccinations/hepatitis-b-vaccine/ | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ?
Being vaccinated doesnt STOP the transmission of covid. No vaccine is 100 percent effective and some who have been double or triple vaccinated will still catch and pass on covid BUT it does reduce the risk of catching on the first place and then passing the virus on. The irony is some of the most vulnerable to covid (and therefore more likely to die if they do catch it) can't have the vaccine for medical reasons or due to worry or personal choice hence the need for those carers who are paid to look after their care to do all they can to reduce the risk of giving them covid. This could be wearing appropriate ppe, reducing face to face contact AND having the vaccine to help protect them. Thankfully we live in a society where people are still free to choose but if you are working with clinically vulnerable people it seems reasonable for that employer to ask you to have a vaccine or get a job that doesn't involve seeing people face to face. "Well said! | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes?" Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time?" Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them? | |||
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"Any ideas on what to do about the shortage of staff this is going to create? Not the best time to have a staff shortage, a pandemic…" It'll be the next excuse for the U-turn on lockdowns. They need a reason after making a big deal about there not being any more. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time?" I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?" "I could do everything in my power to protect you, but some of this stuff doesn't work all of the time, so I'm not going to apply every safety measure that I can" | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden." Yay to you  | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden. Yay to you "I understand relative risk and will not be freezing my arse off tonight  | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?" Yes. They can anyway, vaxxed or not. Care homes are going to close due to these loony decisions. | |||
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"Any ideas on what to do about the shortage of staff this is going to create? Not the best time to have a staff shortage, a pandemic…It'll be the next excuse for the U-turn on lockdowns. They need a reason after making a big deal about there not being any more." Yes very good chance you’re right. They’re ensuring there’s more pressure on the nhs by doing this. Mind you, the majority will ignore the next lockdown, I’ve no doubt about that. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?" Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine? | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine?" Medical exemptions exist. Hope this helps. | |||
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"Any ideas on what to do about the shortage of staff this is going to create? Not the best time to have a staff shortage, a pandemic…" Being vaccinated also reduces the likelihood of you being off sick due to covid | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine?" Indeed, and of course the current sensible testing procedure works just fine. | |||
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"Any ideas on what to do about the shortage of staff this is going to create? Not the best time to have a staff shortage, a pandemic… Being vaccinated also reduces the likelihood of you being off sick due to covid " Brilliant! I’m sure that’ll make up for the 30,000 or so staff that are leaving.  | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine?" Yes | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden." No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine? Medical exemptions exist. Hope this helps." So how is that person any less of a risk to patients then? | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job." Ok. Polio vaccine doesn't stop transmission of polio. Can even cause vaccine induced polio. Which is why it'll never leave the UK and eradication certainly isn't a WHO goal, right?
Or is widespread risk reduction powerful enough to remove the risk of polio from all of us? As we see if we actually look?
I believe that healthcare workers have a duty of care that extends to vaccination. Doing everything they can - even if it isn't 100% because life isn't magic - to reduce the spread of a pandemic virus falls squarely under that. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them? Yes. They can anyway, vaxxed or not. Care homes are going to close due to these loony decisions." Care home staff have already had to have the vaccine. This is about widening it out across the nhs. Staff in care homed who've refused the vaccine have already been laid off. Unfortunately that is the consequence if you are worried about the side affects of the vaccine. If we all die because of a lack of longitudinal studies and there are long term issues with the vaccine then those who have refused will probably rightly feel vindicated but in the mean time there is a balance of probability that the vaccine is safer than not having it especially if you work with clinically vulnerable people so you have a choice to have something that could help protect others and could have a negative side affect or you can choose to find employment elsewhere. If you are scared of the vaccine and belive some of the conspiracy theories and then lose your job because you refuse to have it then as someone who has had the vaccine i really feel sorry for you. Its properly shit that by taking a stand for your rights you have to lose your job but the employer has a duty of care to its patients, residents and other staff and unfortunately that is the reality if you use your human rights and refuse medication. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine? Medical exemptions exist. Hope this helps.So how is that person any less of a risk to patients then?" The person is not, but we make compassionate exceptions for everything on limited grounds based on documented disability. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job." It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here " Thats not a choice, thats coercion. Its the illusion of choice. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here Thats not a choice, thats coercion. Its the illusion of choice." All life has degrees of coercion. We live under a system that has laws we must obey. This is not a special case for a hissy fit. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine? Medical exemptions exist. Hope this helps.So how is that person any less of a risk to patients then? The person is not, but we make compassionate exceptions for everything on limited grounds based on documented disability." So are the nhs liable for using a known risk to treat my granny? Cause based on a few comments in here, any unvaxxed nhs staff are gonna instakill anyone who are vulnerable. Creating exceptions makes a mockery of people losing their jobs over not wanting to take a vaccine, whatever their reasons. As someone who was very hesitant at first, I can understand those fears. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here Thats not a choice, thats coercion. Its the illusion of choice. All life has degrees of coercion. We live under a system that has laws we must obey. This is not a special case for a hissy fit." Id hazard a guess that anyone losing their jobs over this would disagree that a hissy fit is much needed. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here Thats not a choice, thats coercion. Its the illusion of choice. All life has degrees of coercion. We live under a system that has laws we must obey. This is not a special case for a hissy fit.Id hazard a guess that anyone losing their jobs over this would disagree that a hissy fit is much needed." They were given a choice | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? Let’s flip it another way Would you put a loved one into a place of care knowing that the person caring for them could possibly kill them?Yes, life is a risk. You can die for a lot of reasons. Should someone lose their job in the nhs if the can't have the vaccine? Medical exemptions exist. Hope this helps.So how is that person any less of a risk to patients then? The person is not, but we make compassionate exceptions for everything on limited grounds based on documented disability.So are the nhs liable for using a known risk to treat my granny? Cause based on a few comments in here, any unvaxxed nhs staff are gonna instakill anyone who are vulnerable. Creating exceptions makes a mockery of people losing their jobs over not wanting to take a vaccine, whatever their reasons. As someone who was very hesitant at first, I can understand those fears. " Some people have an allergic reaction and that can't be overcome. I have an allergic reaction to some antibiotics. Should we be afraid of antibiotics? (I just say "not those ones, because xyz") This isn't an idunwanna exemption. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here Thats not a choice, thats coercion. Its the illusion of choice. All life has degrees of coercion. We live under a system that has laws we must obey. This is not a special case for a hissy fit.Id hazard a guess that anyone losing their jobs over this would disagree that a hissy fit is much needed. They were given a choice " In a profession where mandatory vaccination has been part of the deal for awhile, they've known this had to be coming. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions " People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. | |||
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"Any ideas on what to do about the shortage of staff this is going to create? Not the best time to have a staff shortage, a pandemic…" Oh, the irony | |||
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"We were asked to take the jab to protect ourselves and others and the nhs..shouldn't they be taking it to protect their patients? People who don't take the jab can become very ill, if they catch Covid, that puts a strain on our nhs." My documentation from the government talked about protecting other vulnerable people. I stepped up. Duty of care. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. " so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid | |||
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"We were asked to take the jab to protect ourselves and others and the nhs..shouldn't they be taking it to protect their patients? People who don't take the jab can become very ill, if they catch Covid, that puts a strain on our nhs. My documentation from the government talked about protecting other vulnerable people. I stepped up. Duty of care." | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here Thats not a choice, thats coercion. Its the illusion of choice. All life has degrees of coercion. We live under a system that has laws we must obey. This is not a special case for a hissy fit.Id hazard a guess that anyone losing their jobs over this would disagree that a hissy fit is much needed." The way I see the frontline NHS workers choice is no different to any working environment that requires PPE. You would expect a builder to be taken off site for not wearing a hard hat, hi vis etc. You might argue that those items can be taken off and are not with the person forever, that is because that PPE is specifically for that job. A frontline NHS worker already takes vaccines to prevent injury or death so we could argue a vaccine is established as PPE already. The mindset of those who refuse to protect themselves in an environment of care is also raises questions of their suitability for the role they're employed to do, do they think any other medicines or procedures are not needed, will they administer as instructed. That may sound extreme, but their actions will raise those questions. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid " As was said, several times, previously, it reduces the risk..no vaccine is 100% effective.. | |||
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"Vaccines reduce the risk of catching Covid, they reduce the risk of spreading Covid. Brakes reduce the risk of crashing your car. They're imperfect, we should get rid of them, yes? Bit of a false equivalence, are we resorting to comparing apples to step ladders now to make a point? Let's flip the script on your ridiculous analogy, Would you drive a car if depending on which brand of brakes you had the brakes just didn't work in a range between 5% and 30% of the time? I'm calling out the Nirvana fallacy going on here. If something is imperfect, we should get rid of it. (Not that vaccines were designed to stop transmission) If I had a choice between a car with no brakes, and a car with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. If I had to choose putting vulnerable people into a car with no brakes, or one with brakes with a failure rate, I'd choose the brakes with a failure rate. Or are no brakes better than something that helps? Houses collapse sometimes. Teach the conspiracy. End big house. Sleep in the garden.No one mentioned any conspiracy. Yet another word thrown about to try and make anyone who dares to disagree look ridiculous. My point was with your poor analogy. Compared to vaccines, brakes are pretty much perfect. For the record, I believe anyone who is able should choose to have every vaccine available to them. It should be a choice though, not through fear of losing their job. It IS a choice Take it and carry on working Don’t take it Lose your job It’s a choice And the my body my choice thing does not apply here Thats not a choice, thats coercion. Its the illusion of choice. All life has degrees of coercion. We live under a system that has laws we must obey. This is not a special case for a hissy fit.Id hazard a guess that anyone losing their jobs over this would disagree that a hissy fit is much needed. The way I see the frontline NHS workers choice is no different to any working environment that requires PPE. You would expect a builder to be taken off site for not wearing a hard hat, hi vis etc. You might argue that those items can be taken off and are not with the person forever, that is because that PPE is specifically for that job. A frontline NHS worker already takes vaccines to prevent injury or death so we could argue a vaccine is established as PPE already. The mindset of those who refuse to protect themselves in an environment of care is also raises questions of their suitability for the role they're employed to do, do they think any other medicines or procedures are not needed, will they administer as instructed. That may sound extreme, but their actions will raise those questions. " | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid " Read the read pal You’re miles behind | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid " And why do I need a driving licence, 99.999% of drivers involved in fatal accidents have driving licences | |||
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"So now we've gone from clapping for carers to sacking the carers? Last years heroes, next years unemployed? What a sad way to treat such valuable people." Would you value them if one looking after your loved ones passed it to them and killed them? | |||
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"Surely regular testing and isolating is gonna be much wore effective to deal with covid than vaccinating " It could run alongside it | |||
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"Surely regular testing and isolating is gonna be much wore effective to deal with covid than vaccinating It could run alongside it "Yep deffo run alongside, but I'd prioritise testing tbh | |||
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"So now we've gone from clapping for carers to sacking the carers? Last years heroes, next years unemployed? What a sad way to treat such valuable people." I continue to value healthcare workers who uphold their duty of care. Which is an overwhelming majority of them. | |||
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"How much of a threat can an unvaccinated medical worker truly present to someone who has been offered at least 2 and in some cases 3 jabs? Given that the vast majority of people will only develop mild symptoms should they become infected, over 90% of NHS workers are already reportedly double jabbed and we’re developing more effective treatments almost daily it seems unreasonable to suggest that unvaccinated NHS workers pose a significant threat. It is unfair on those that will lose their jobs but it is also unfair on those who will miss out on adequate care due to staff shortages in an already struggling sector. Same with care homes. We feel that these mandates will come far worse consequences than they do benefits. There’ll be no winners here. " Let’s look at one aspect of your point. “Vast majority” Meaning there will be exceptions. If that was your loved one? Then how would you feel? | |||
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"Well I hope you don't all cry when all the people working on low pay fuck off and the care system that is already under strain cannot look after grandma any longer and you have to step up and do the job. Same goes for the NHS really how is it going to still operate when all them people walk out of the door, suspect that payouts will be coming from the NHS kitty? Don't winge you can see a doctor, get the medical care you and your family needs and so on. Not pro or anti vax here but believe people have the right to choose what they do with their bodies. We are going to be a pretty fucked nation considering the strain the care and NHS sector is under all we are saying. We think that we are all better off keeping the people in the health and care sector and given the opportunity would probably prefer to have someone there to stem the critical blood loss vaxed or not when required than bleed out and die! Just be careful what you wish for people? "Major fall down of your point here. If what people put in their bodies only effects them? Fine But this is the opposite It’s like d*unk driving Selfish actions can effect others | |||
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"How much of a threat can an unvaccinated medical worker truly present to someone who has been offered at least 2 and in some cases 3 jabs? Given that the vast majority of people will only develop mild symptoms should they become infected, over 90% of NHS workers are already reportedly double jabbed and we’re developing more effective treatments almost daily it seems unreasonable to suggest that unvaccinated NHS workers pose a significant threat. It is unfair on those that will lose their jobs but it is also unfair on those who will miss out on adequate care due to staff shortages in an already struggling sector. Same with care homes. We feel that these mandates will come far worse consequences than they do benefits. There’ll be no winners here. Let’s look at one aspect of your point. “Vast majority” Meaning there will be exceptions. If that was your loved one? Then how would you feel?" I have no issue who cares for my loved ones as long as they are qualified in what they’re doing. There will always be exceptions, such as the potential for vaccinated staff to transmit covid. | |||
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"NHS is there to protect... Simple as that. It's bit like bareback or condom's. BB (the un-jabbed amongst us) means your open to all sorts of STI and could kill you ... Condom's (the jabbed amongst us) means that your taking all reasonable care of protection. The other thing is if you don't believe in the protection offered by the jabb, does that mean washing your hands for 20sec. Is as much a waste of time as is wearing the condom !" Safer sex is still an STI risk, but I still insist on it. Same thing | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. " This is my point It’s a choice that effects other people It’s not My body my choice | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. " They do have a choice. There are other jobs | |||
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"Thank goodness many of us are having the jab, it reduces the pressure on the nhs staff. I wonder what the reasons are for refusing the jab.." Younger people generally it is the long term impact on fertility that is holding the greater majority back. Because it's an unknown. | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. They do have a choice. There are other jobs " So when staff leave and basic administration can't be done what happens? Whole health service grinds to a halt. The NHS isn't fit for purpose at the best of times. | |||
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"Thank goodness many of us are having the jab, it reduces the pressure on the nhs staff. I wonder what the reasons are for refusing the jab.. Younger people generally it is the long term impact on fertility that is holding the greater majority back. Because it's an unknown." And it’s bullshit like this that keeps people dying Way to go fools | |||
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"Thank goodness many of us are having the jab, it reduces the pressure on the nhs staff. I wonder what the reasons are for refusing the jab.. Younger people generally it is the long term impact on fertility that is holding the greater majority back. Because it's an unknown." Ok that's interesting and makes sense..I was talking to a critical care nurse, last week and the majority of her patients were in the 20's 30's age group, unvaccinated.. | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. They do have a choice. There are other jobs So when staff leave and basic administration can't be done what happens? Whole health service grinds to a halt. The NHS isn't fit for purpose at the best of times." The rates of vaccination in the NHS are extremely high. The US experience shows that those who aren't vaccinated tend to be vaccinated (I think NYPD predicted tens of thousands would leave - it was 34) The duty of care is a pillar of the job, in healthcare. I do not think we should settle for less. (We should also undo the years of NHS mismanagement and underfunding, but that's a separate question from healthcare workers refusing their duty of care) | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. They do have a choice. There are other jobs So when staff leave and basic administration can't be done what happens? Whole health service grinds to a halt. The NHS isn't fit for purpose at the best of times." Can these people afford to leave their jobs? | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. They do have a choice. There are other jobs So when staff leave and basic administration can't be done what happens? Whole health service grinds to a halt. The NHS isn't fit for purpose at the best of times. Can these people afford to leave their jobs?" Their choice | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. They do have a choice. There are other jobs So when staff leave and basic administration can't be done what happens? Whole health service grinds to a halt. The NHS isn't fit for purpose at the best of times. Can these people afford to leave their jobs? Their choice " Yep | |||
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"NSH staff must get other vaccinations before they practice. It’s mandatory. Why should this be any different? Surely it’s about duty of care. Same as care workers" Actually you're advised not to get vaccinated against things you've acquired natural immunity to, for everything other than covid. That's why it should be different. Because natural immunity is superior. | |||
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"I personally know lots of NHS staff who haven't had the vaccine and won't have it. Including the previous head of the clinical commissioning group for my county. It's their choice to have it or not, I have it was my choice I'm not anti or pro I just think people should have a choice. They do have a choice. There are other jobs So when staff leave and basic administration can't be done what happens? Whole health service grinds to a halt. The NHS isn't fit for purpose at the best of times. The rates of vaccination in the NHS are extremely high. The US experience shows that those who aren't vaccinated tend to be vaccinated (I think NYPD predicted tens of thousands would leave - it was 34) The duty of care is a pillar of the job, in healthcare. I do not think we should settle for less. (We should also undo the years of NHS mismanagement and underfunding, but that's a separate question from healthcare workers refusing their duty of care)" Hasn’t happened here with care staff. They’re leaving to get other jobs. The staff shortage is getting worse. The patients will suffer. And all while a sensible testing regime would be fine. Clap for carers to sack for carers. Gross. | |||
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"If you are forcing people to have a vaccine so they can continue making a living that is a dangerous state to live in, what's to stop that legislation being applied to all sorts of areas. I believe people should have a choice, it is about acceptance of risk. Even if jabbed you can still get it, still transmit it and still infect others. Yes I agree it lowers the chances of that happening but primarily the jab is to protect the person that is jabbed not others. I'm neither pro nor anti Vax as I said already, I do firmly believe in freedom of choice though. " They chose to work in healthcare. They made an active decision to work with vulnerable people with a legal duty of care. They can choose to uphold the standards of their profession, or they can seek another. They have made their choice. | |||
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"If you are forcing people to have a vaccine so they can continue making a living that is a dangerous state to live in, what's to stop that legislation being applied to all sorts of areas. I believe people should have a choice, it is about acceptance of risk. Even if jabbed you can still get it, still transmit it and still infect others. Yes I agree it lowers the chances of that happening but primarily the jab is to protect the person that is jabbed not others. I'm neither pro nor anti Vax as I said already, I do firmly believe in freedom of choice though. They chose to work in healthcare. They made an active decision to work with vulnerable people with a legal duty of care. They can choose to uphold the standards of their profession, or they can seek another. They have made their choice." And the patients will suffer. There is a shortage of staff. Testing worked fine. | |||
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"Its absolutely no different from them having to have Hep-B and other such vaccinations to work in that sector https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-healthcare-workers-clearance-for-hepatitis-b-and-c-tb-hiv Exactly " Apart from your bloodtested before to see antibodies and vax course is set around results if needed. If antibodies no vax required | |||
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"That's not how legal duty of care works though, it is about what is "reasonably foreseeable" now I do appreciate your point, however it can be argued that COVID jab which doesn't stop transmission makes no difference to the reasonably foreseeable, the jabs primary aim is to protect the person who has had the jab. " Correct. And I’ll ask again, those who are happy for these people to lose their jobs, what’s your plan to sort the staff shortage?! | |||
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"That's not how legal duty of care works though, it is about what is "reasonably foreseeable" now I do appreciate your point, however it can be argued that COVID jab which doesn't stop transmission makes no difference to the reasonably foreseeable, the jabs primary aim is to protect the person who has had the jab. " Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? It's not reasonably foreseeable that not being vaccinated will increase that risk, given papers consistently showing a reduction of viral load and duration in the vaccinated? I don't think that'll stand up in court | |||
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"If you are forcing people to have a vaccine so they can continue making a living that is a dangerous state to live in, what's to stop that legislation being applied to all sorts of areas. I believe people should have a choice, it is about acceptance of risk. Even if jabbed you can still get it, still transmit it and still infect others. Yes I agree it lowers the chances of that happening but primarily the jab is to protect the person that is jabbed not others. I'm neither pro nor anti Vax as I said already, I do firmly believe in freedom of choice though. " Thing is If you give stupid people a choice They make stupid ones | |||
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"Its absolutely no different from them having to have Hep-B and other such vaccinations to work in that sector https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-healthcare-workers-clearance-for-hepatitis-b-and-c-tb-hiv Exactly Apart from your bloodtested before to see antibodies and vax course is set around results if needed. If antibodies no vax required " Exactly. This thread got over 100 posts without anyone saying natural immunity! Shows how easily people are divided up into tribes. | |||
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"That's not how legal duty of care works though, it is about what is "reasonably foreseeable" now I do appreciate your point, however it can be argued that COVID jab which doesn't stop transmission makes no difference to the reasonably foreseeable, the jabs primary aim is to protect the person who has had the jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? It's not reasonably foreseeable that not being vaccinated will increase that risk, given papers consistently showing a reduction of viral load and duration in the vaccinated? I don't think that'll stand up in court "Primary spread asymptomatically!!! All this time spent on here and you still believe that kind of bollocks. | |||
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"That's not how legal duty of care works though, it is about what is "reasonably foreseeable" now I do appreciate your point, however it can be argued that COVID jab which doesn't stop transmission makes no difference to the reasonably foreseeable, the jabs primary aim is to protect the person who has had the jab. " Add that to the behavioural differences those who are jabbed show... And how much real difference in transmission in the real world.? Would be good to see some convincing evidence before taking this leap. Better and more regular testing would help surely. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid Exactly this." https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.bmj.com/content/375/bmj.n2635&ved=2ahUKEwjWlcq60Y30AhXGDOwKHev4CCkQFnoECBgQAQ&usg=AOvVaw27GPZjdzPpnEHf-w4-F812 | |||
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"If you are forcing people to have a vaccine so they can continue making a living that is a dangerous state to live in, what's to stop that legislation being applied to all sorts of areas. I believe people should have a choice, it is about acceptance of risk. Even if jabbed you can still get it, still transmit it and still infect others. Yes I agree it lowers the chances of that happening but primarily the jab is to protect the person that is jabbed not others. I'm neither pro nor anti Vax as I said already, I do firmly believe in freedom of choice though. Thing is If you give stupid people a choice They make stupid ones " Stupid in your opinion. And the alternative to choice in life is not the society anyone wants to live in. | |||
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" Major fall down of your point here. If what people put in their bodies only effects them? Fine But this is the opposite It’s like d*unk driving Selfish actions can effect others " Go away and do the maths it's not at all like d*unk driving one is been just stupid and the other is factor of "are we all better off" with the fairly low risk comparison of having more people in the health sector that is already under strain as it is! Get your head out of the sand We are all going to be at risk by not having a a functioning health system. I think statically more deaths will come from not having people in the health sector than if the small amount of unvaxinated would cause. People we know working their bollocks of in the NHS are all exhausted and at the brink of burn out. Some are already considering walking and now a new extra reason has been created for some to walk out of the door. Can't say we envy anyone working in the NHS at the moment. If its that much of a bug bare then you have a choice not to use the national health service? now that statically would be more likely to be getting behind the wheel of a car after a few pints PMSL Guess we all have a choice who to believe and get worked up over, the media or the facts and statistics? One makes sense and the other is blown out of proportion. | |||
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"That's not how legal duty of care works though, it is about what is "reasonably foreseeable" now I do appreciate your point, however it can be argued that COVID jab which doesn't stop transmission makes no difference to the reasonably foreseeable, the jabs primary aim is to protect the person who has had the jab. Correct. And I’ll ask again, those who are happy for these people to lose their jobs, what’s your plan to sort the staff shortage?!" Why is it anyone else’s job to fix a problem they didn’t cause? The vaccine makes everyone safer, if you wanna work in a sector with at risk people you need it. People have chosen not to do that and lost their job. It’s their fault But it’s neither their job or ours to fix it. It’s within the company providing care to fix it, don’t try to pass blame though. | |||
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"Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial" Should that be " Ex Pfizer employee seeks fame and fortune peddling mistruths on YouTube " | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid " So, does logic dictate that therefore there is no point in getting vaccinated? I suspect an element of mischief making in some of these sweeping statements which lend themselves easily to becoming a 'fact'. | |||
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"Surely regular testing and isolating is gonna be much wore effective to deal with covid than vaccinating It could run alongside it
Yep deffo run alongside, but I'd prioritise testing tbh "That worked really well last year so why not ? | |||
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"Covid-19: Researcher blows the whistle on data integrity issues in Pfizer’s vaccine trial Should that be " Ex Pfizer employee seeks fame and fortune peddling mistruths on YouTube " " In this case, it's "private lab tech reports some issues in a tiny minority of labs, which may or may not be real concerns but don't invalidate the data" | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? " Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851 | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid So, does logic dictate that therefore there is no point in getting vaccinated? I suspect an element of mischief making in some of these sweeping statements which lend themselves easily to becoming a 'fact'." There's lots of mischief making going on | |||
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" Major fall down of your point here. If what people put in their bodies only effects them? Fine But this is the opposite It’s like d*unk driving Selfish actions can effect others Go away and do the maths it's not at all like d*unk driving one is been just stupid and the other is factor of "are we all better off" with the fairly low risk comparison of having more people in the health sector that is already under strain as it is! Get your head out of the sand We are all going to be at risk by not having a a functioning health system. I think statically more deaths will come from not having people in the health sector than if the small amount of unvaxinated would cause. People we know working their bollocks of in the NHS are all exhausted and at the brink of burn out. Some are already considering walking and now a new extra reason has been created for some to walk out of the door. Can't say we envy anyone working in the NHS at the moment. If its that much of a bug bare then you have a choice not to use the national health service? now that statically would be more likely to be getting behind the wheel of a car after a few pints PMSL Guess we all have a choice who to believe and get worked up over, the media or the facts and statistics? One makes sense and the other is blown out of proportion. Who the he’ll do you think you’re talking to ? " | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid So, does logic dictate that therefore there is no point in getting vaccinated? I suspect an element of mischief making in some of these sweeping statements which lend themselves easily to becoming a 'fact'." No logic would dictate that it reduces your risk of death if you have had the vaccine. So there is point to having it, reduced viral load is a by product and really not part of the program. The only real immunity that you can get is natural, vaccine allows you to catch it naturally and not die. | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. " I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 10/11/21 08:37:33] If you can show me where someone has said it stops the transmission I’d appreciate it " It is well documented that all of the vaccinations REDUCE the chance of becoming infected, REDUCE the rate of transmission, REDUCE the severity of illness if you do become infected and REDUCE the number of deaths related to Covid. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work This simple article from The Vaccine Alliance, demonstrates that a vaccinated person is less less likely to become infected (65%-95% less depending on vaccine) PLUS a 40%-60% less likely to transmit the virus onto other. So to simplify, if 1000 vaccinated people are exposed to the virus upto 350 may still become infected... out of those upto 210 could still infect others. That is a total reduction of 79%. Cal | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. https://www.bmj.com/content/371/bmj.m4851" It's not even 10% and asymptomatic transmission transmits a weaker form of the virus that isn't a significant risk. A lot of people still haven't understood the difference between asymptomatic and pre-symptomatic. | |||
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"[Removed by poster at 10/11/21 08:37:33] If you can show me where someone has said it stops the transmission I’d appreciate it It is well documented that all of the vaccinations REDUCE the chance of becoming infected, REDUCE the rate of transmission, REDUCE the severity of illness if you do become infected and REDUCE the number of deaths related to Covid. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work This simple article from The Vaccine Alliance, demonstrates that a vaccinated person is less less likely to become infected (65%-95% less depending on vaccine) PLUS a 40%-60% less likely to transmit the virus onto other. So to simplify, if 1000 vaccinated people are exposed to the virus upto 350 may still become infected... out of those upto 210 could still infect others. That is a total reduction of 79%. Cal "And want to know why that's bollocks, because unvaccinated people without natural immunity are unicorns now. So comparing people with peak vaccine immunity to unvacvinated with no immunity is a nonsense comparison. | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy." What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. " The science of I know what a big number looks like? Just because it was a bigger number doesn't mean it's not a big number now. I'll tell the Australian fire service that we've discovered this new cost saving measure though. If it's not a record breaking inferno, it's totes fine. Awesome. | |||
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"NSH staff must get other vaccinations before they practice. It’s mandatory. Why should this be any different? Surely it’s about duty of care. Same as care workers" Personally choice | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. The science of I know what a big number looks like? Just because it was a bigger number doesn't mean it's not a big number now. I'll tell the Australian fire service that we've discovered this new cost saving measure though. If it's not a record breaking inferno, it's totes fine. Awesome." So, you can’t provide your “science” to prove its “spreading like wildfire”? | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. The science of I know what a big number looks like? Just because it was a bigger number doesn't mean it's not a big number now. I'll tell the Australian fire service that we've discovered this new cost saving measure though. If it's not a record breaking inferno, it's totes fine. Awesome. So, you can’t provide your “science” to prove its “spreading like wildfire”? " Look at the case figures and the R number. Yes, it's going down. From an extremely high number. If you can't see there's lots of it out there then I can't help you. | |||
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"NSH staff must get other vaccinations before they practice. It’s mandatory. Why should this be any different? Surely it’s about duty of care. Same as care workers Personally choice " That’s so far from a fact it’s ridiculous | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. The science of I know what a big number looks like? Just because it was a bigger number doesn't mean it's not a big number now. I'll tell the Australian fire service that we've discovered this new cost saving measure though. If it's not a record breaking inferno, it's totes fine. Awesome. So, you can’t provide your “science” to prove its “spreading like wildfire”? Look at the case figures and the R number. Yes, it's going down. From an extremely high number. If you can't see there's lots of it out there then I can't help you." So it isn’t spreading like wildfire then is it? | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. The science of I know what a big number looks like? Just because it was a bigger number doesn't mean it's not a big number now. I'll tell the Australian fire service that we've discovered this new cost saving measure though. If it's not a record breaking inferno, it's totes fine. Awesome. So, you can’t provide your “science” to prove its “spreading like wildfire”? Look at the case figures and the R number. Yes, it's going down. From an extremely high number. If you can't see there's lots of it out there then I can't help you. So it isn’t spreading like wildfire then is it?" If you believe that then that's your prerogative. | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. The science of I know what a big number looks like? Just because it was a bigger number doesn't mean it's not a big number now. I'll tell the Australian fire service that we've discovered this new cost saving measure though. If it's not a record breaking inferno, it's totes fine. Awesome. So, you can’t provide your “science” to prove its “spreading like wildfire”? Look at the case figures and the R number. Yes, it's going down. From an extremely high number. If you can't see there's lots of it out there then I can't help you. So it isn’t spreading like wildfire then is it? If you believe that then that's your prerogative." I follow the science | |||
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"So now we've gone from clapping for carers to sacking the carers? Last years heroes, next years unemployed? What a sad way to treat such valuable people. Would you value them if one looking after your loved ones passed it to them and killed them?" What do we do if the person who was looking after them was jabbed but still passed it on. Shrug it off? | |||
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" jab. Oh, so it's not reasonably foreseeable that a virus spreading like wildfire, primarily spread asymptomatically, might spread between practioner and patient? Great thanks was waiting for the asymptomatic argument. No, no, no. The spread is not primarily asymptomatic the best guess and it is a guess is between 17-20% could be. However there is no studies to show that people who are asymptomatic are infectious. I suggest you read a reputable source such as the British Medical Journal (linked below) before media scaremongering. Secondly it is not spreading like wildfire at all, again media making things sound far worse than they are, if you like I will get you the ONS data to back that up. The difference between you and I, I'm dealing in facts and data, you are emotionally invested as such can't see the facts. I mean that completely respectfully but if you stand back look at the science and data you reach different conclusions. I've been following the science all along, thanks. And it's not exactly a game of chuck out a paper top trumps, it's slowly coming to a conclusion over time. Evidence increasingly accrues over asymptomatic and pauci-symptomatic Covid I am not going to attack your psychological state and I'd appreciate the same courtesy. What science have you been following that suggests covid is spreading like wildfire? Cases have fallen almost daily for the past 3 weeks, hospitalisations and deaths are slightly rising but are largely stable and nowhere near previous peaks. The science of I know what a big number looks like? Just because it was a bigger number doesn't mean it's not a big number now. I'll tell the Australian fire service that we've discovered this new cost saving measure though. If it's not a record breaking inferno, it's totes fine. Awesome. So, you can’t provide your “science” to prove its “spreading like wildfire”? Look at the case figures and the R number. Yes, it's going down. From an extremely high number. If you can't see there's lots of it out there then I can't help you. So it isn’t spreading like wildfire then is it? If you believe that then that's your prerogative. I follow the science "Good for you. Bit off topic, though. That healthcare workers undertook a duty of care, and there's precedent for mandatory vaccination in the NHS. That duty of care, while attaching to the job, is voluntarily taken. That the mandate seems all but inevitable, and unvaccinated healthcare workers will follow unvaccinated care workers, out the door. | |||
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"How much of a threat can an unvaccinated medical worker truly present to someone who has been offered at least 2 and in some cases 3 jabs? Given that the vast majority of people will only develop mild symptoms should they become infected, over 90% of NHS workers are already reportedly double jabbed and we’re developing more effective treatments almost daily it seems unreasonable to suggest that unvaccinated NHS workers pose a significant threat. It is unfair on those that will lose their jobs but it is also unfair on those who will miss out on adequate care due to staff shortages in an already struggling sector. Same with care homes. We feel that these mandates will come far worse consequences than they do benefits. There’ll be no winners here. " I agree with this. Both sides will lose | |||
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"Its absolutely no different from them having to have Hep-B and other such vaccinations to work in that sector https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-healthcare-workers-clearance-for-hepatitis-b-and-c-tb-hiv" Yes it is different. Different because it's a major retrospective change to their contracts. | |||
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"Its absolutely no different from them having to have Hep-B and other such vaccinations to work in that sector https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/new-healthcare-workers-clearance-for-hepatitis-b-and-c-tb-hiv Yes it is different. Different because it's a major retrospective change to their contracts. " Just like when hep b was introduced. There was a time before there was a hep b vaccine mandate. When it came in the same issue would have applied. To be honest I thought this mandate had been brought in months ago, kinda surprised it took this long to bring it forward. In the end most are already vaccinated and I can't see it being a huge problem to cover off the rest of the medical staff. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid And why do I need a driving licence, 99.999% of drivers involved in fatal accidents have driving licences" I have never heard of anyone developing clots, myocarditis and other heart issues, having a stroke or even experiencing long covid like symptoms from passing their driving test. Totally ridiculous analogy. If there was zero risk to the person being vaccinated then I'd agree with all forms of forced vaccination. You can't however choose what an individual decides to put into their body. Is the miniscule risk worth it, yes I believe so which is why I chose to get my covid vaccine(and decline my flu shot yearly) but you should be free to make that choice without coercion. | |||
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"So now we've gone from clapping for carers to sacking the carers? Last years heroes, next years unemployed? What a sad way to treat such valuable people. Would you value them if one looking after your loved ones passed it to them and killed them?" Vaccinated or unvaccinated? Even with the vaccine there is still more or less the same chance of catching and passing it on. Only now thanks to the govt choosing to run roughshod over an individuals right of choice of their own body there will be less staff to care for the sick, elderly and those with special needs..... | |||
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"Its not enough to just say these people can leave the job or be sacked without also asking the question of who is going to replace them? " Who is going to replace them? Maybe people eager to work and with no issues over vaccination? If they acquire the jobs, perhaps the others will begin to sit up and think, or, perhaps they won't. only time will tell. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid And why do I need a driving licence, 99.999% of drivers involved in fatal accidents have driving licencesI have never heard of anyone developing clots, myocarditis and other heart issues, having a stroke or even experiencing long covid like symptoms from passing their driving test. Totally ridiculous analogy. If there was zero risk to the person being vaccinated then I'd agree with all forms of forced vaccination. You can't however choose what an individual decides to put into their body. Is the miniscule risk worth it, yes I believe so which is why I chose to get my covid vaccine(and decline my flu shot yearly) but you should be free to make that choice without coercion." Yes but if you work in a profession were you interact daily with people who are already medically compromised it is not the same as working in an office or building site. The doctors customers are the most vulnerable and not being vaccinated is tantermount to medical negligence. A bit like doing surgery without sterilising. It is about lowering the risk for the most vulnerable. Pateients can't choose their medic, if they could they may choose to see a vaccinated or unvacinnated medic and they own the risk. But as the patient can't choose the service has a responsibility to minimise any known risks. You can get away with it for the first few years but at some point a patients family will sue if they contract covid from a hospital due to staff not being vaccinated. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid And why do I need a driving licence, 99.999% of drivers involved in fatal accidents have driving licencesI have never heard of anyone developing clots, myocarditis and other heart issues, having a stroke or even experiencing long covid like symptoms from passing their driving test. Totally ridiculous analogy. If there was zero risk to the person being vaccinated then I'd agree with all forms of forced vaccination. You can't however choose what an individual decides to put into their body. Is the miniscule risk worth it, yes I believe so which is why I chose to get my covid vaccine(and decline my flu shot yearly) but you should be free to make that choice without coercion." It's not miniscule at all. The average person has 150 acquaintances. The chance of knowing someone with vaccine induced myocarditis would be inconceivable if it was miniscule. I know 2 people. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid " Nothing 'stops' everything. Wearing a seatbelt doesn't 'stop' people being killed in car crashes. But it stops a lot of people being killed who would have been if they were not wearing one. In the same way, being fully vaccinated does make you much less likely to catch the virus and more importantly, it makes it much less likely that you spread it and pass it on. This isn't my opinion, it's empirical research data reviewed by doctors and you can reference it here: https://patient.info/news-and-features/does-being-vaccinated-against-covid-19-stop-you-getting-infected Given there are not enough health workers in the first place, keeping the ones you have alive seems reasonably important in any list of priorities. The longer the virus is around the more likely it is to Hospitals, by definition, are full of ill people. When you're ill your resistance is lowered. Literally the last thing ill people need is someone infecting them with something they don't already have. The longer the virus is in circulation the more likely it is to mutate, making the anti-Covid injections we have less effective. This disease has killed well over 130,000 people in the UK and over 5 million people worldwide. The only way of getting it under control is vaccination, the same way we vaccinate against smallpox, diphtheria, polio, tuberculosis, all of which used to kill hundreds of thousands or people every year, and ruin the lives of many more. This isn't about "I saw something by a 14 year-old who did an experiment with a bottle of Coke-Cola and a packet of mints on You Tube so I'm not doing it." This is about saving lives. Maybe yours. | |||
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" Even with the vaccine there is still more or less the same chance of catching and passing it on." Please feel free to cite a single peer-reviewed medical study that backs this assertion. I'll wait. | |||
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So anyway if we are so very vaccinated now then why is the media reporting that Covid numbers are spiking? Why is it being banded about that we may have a lockdown in winter? If you look at COVID rates now as compared to say the 2nd March there were 40 new cases and only 1.2% of the population was vaccinated. Yesterday there was over 32,000 new cases.
Are you ready for these figures since the 2nd of March the percentage of fully vaccinated people has risen by 4828%
During that same time Covid rates have also risen by a massive 79900%
So tell me, how does being vaccinated stop the spread of the virus?
And no I’ve not made the figures up, they are official government figures. | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid Nothing 'stops' everything. Wearing a seatbelt doesn't 'stop' people being killed in car crashes. But it stops a lot of people being killed who would have been if they were not wearing one. " Unlike the vaccine which occasionally manages to kill and disable people that had fuck all risk from the actual virus | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,"Are you vaccinated? | |||
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"Being vaccinated does not stop you transmitting or catching Covid But greatly reduces the risk What risk does it reduce ? If you are double vaccinated you can still transmit and catch Covid , the Vaccine only helps the vaccinated,
Did you not have your MMR or polio jabs as a kid? Do you disagree with HPV vaccines to stop cervical cancer develiping in young girls when they become sexually active?
Stop believing the sensationalist media bullshit.
The UK has the best vaccination programme in the world. Read up on the facts, it will serve you well. A simple question does being vaccinated stop transmission of Covid ?
It does better than the polio vaccine does.
Which is why polio continues to ravage the UK, yes?
Repeating anti vax bollocks over and over then complaining when we don't agree with you doesn't make you right."but doesn't make her wrong either I understand both sides of the argument it's all about choice for me im double jab cought it in summer was close to hospital passed it to parents double vaxed mum was in a right state | |||
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"NSH staff must get other vaccinations before they practice. It’s mandatory. Why should this be any different? Surely it’s about duty of care. Same as care workers" Im 100% for this. You dnt care about your health or those around you. Walk away. Plenty do. Should not be up for discussion. No one knows what the vaccine can do but we know what happens if you dnt have. We hope it reduces transmission and symptoms. As a responsible adult then no matter what all should be vaccinated. Ok hard hat on ready for the grenades. Get ready to pull your pins lol | |||
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"Its not enough to just say these people can leave the job or be sacked without also asking the question of who is going to replace them? Who is going to replace them? Maybe people eager to work and with no issues over vaccination? If they acquire the jobs, perhaps the others will begin to sit up and think, or, perhaps they won't. only time will tell." Show me the people queuing up and eager for these carer roles and I will agree. | |||
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"Its not enough to just say these people can leave the job or be sacked without also asking the question of who is going to replace them? Who is going to replace them? Maybe people eager to work and with no issues over vaccination? If they acquire the jobs, perhaps the others will begin to sit up and think, or, perhaps they won't. only time will tell. Show me the people queuing up and eager for these carer roles and I will agree. " Care jobs have always been notoriously difficult to recruit this. I dread to think how the care sector will struggle now. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid And why do I need a driving licence, 99.999% of drivers involved in fatal accidents have driving licencesI have never heard of anyone developing clots, myocarditis and other heart issues, having a stroke or even experiencing long covid like symptoms from passing their driving test. Totally ridiculous analogy. If there was zero risk to the person being vaccinated then I'd agree with all forms of forced vaccination. You can't however choose what an individual decides to put into their body. Is the miniscule risk worth it, yes I believe so which is why I chose to get my covid vaccine(and decline my flu shot yearly) but you should be free to make that choice without coercion. It's not miniscule at all. The average person has 150 acquaintances. The chance of knowing someone with vaccine induced myocarditis would be inconceivable if it was miniscule. I know 2 people. " I know 1, I also know a lot more who had zero issues outside of a sore arm for a few days, myself included. My issue isn't with side effects, everything has potential side effects. It however should be personal choice to take those risks, free from risk of losing your job. Especially on the say so of a government who has handled this entire pandemic terribly. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid And why do I need a driving licence, 99.999% of drivers involved in fatal accidents have driving licencesI have never heard of anyone developing clots, myocarditis and other heart issues, having a stroke or even experiencing long covid like symptoms from passing their driving test. Totally ridiculous analogy. If there was zero risk to the person being vaccinated then I'd agree with all forms of forced vaccination. You can't however choose what an individual decides to put into their body. Is the miniscule risk worth it, yes I believe so which is why I chose to get my covid vaccine(and decline my flu shot yearly) but you should be free to make that choice without coercion. It's not miniscule at all. The average person has 150 acquaintances. The chance of knowing someone with vaccine induced myocarditis would be inconceivable if it was miniscule. I know 2 people. I know 1, I also know a lot more who had zero issues outside of a sore arm for a few days, myself included. My issue isn't with side effects, everything has potential side effects. It however should be personal choice to take those risks, free from risk of losing your job. Especially on the say so of a government who has handled this entire pandemic terribly. " | |||
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"Poverty and poor housing is a huge cost on people's mental and physical health which puts a strain on the NHS. Why don't the government do something about that ? " They should. Issues aren't mutually exclusive. | |||
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"What if the people told to get vacinated all decided to walk out the door this weekend the NHS would need to find!100.000 + workers ASAP it's way short of staff as it is with years of under funding and now has the pandemic to blame for for staff short fall. And government pals milking it dry with contracts to people who are making blunders and still getting millions People refusing should walk out of the door, I wouldn’t want them caring for a vulnerable loved one. so it's OK for double jabbed people to spread covid. Its a fact if jabbed you can still spread and catch covid And why do I need a driving licence, 99.999% of drivers involved in fatal accidents have driving licencesI have never heard of anyone developing clots, myocarditis and other heart issues, having a stroke or even experiencing long covid like symptoms from passing their driving test. Totally ridiculous analogy. If there was zero risk to the person being vaccinated then I'd agree with all forms of forced vaccination. You can't however choose what an individual decides to put into their body. Is the miniscule risk worth it, yes I believe so which is why I chose to get my covid vaccine(and decline my flu shot yearly) but you should be free to make that choice without coercion. It's not miniscule at all. The average person has 150 acquaintances. The chance of knowing someone with vaccine induced myocarditis would be inconceivable if it was miniscule. I know 2 people. I know 1, I also know a lot more who had zero issues outside of a sore arm for a few days, myself included. My issue isn't with side effects, everything has potential side effects. It however should be personal choice to take those risks, free from risk of losing your job. Especially on the say so of a government who has handled this entire pandemic terribly. " Initially the stats were that it's a 1 in 100,000 event. That's gone up to 8 in 100,000 which is still bollocks. I seriously doubt either of us know 6,250 people and I am talking about people we really know, not just "my friend has a friend who..." I agree with the other points you made, I'm just sick of people down playing the risks of the vaccine in general. | |||
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"Thank goodness many of us are having the jab, it reduces the pressure on the nhs staff. I wonder what the reasons are for refusing the jab.. Younger people generally it is the long term impact on fertility that is holding the greater majority back. Because it's an unknown." Anything is an 'unknown' for some people, with any straw man argument that they pick. | |||
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"If you can show me where someone has said it stops the transmission I’d appreciate it It is well documented that all of the vaccinations REDUCE the chance of becoming infected, REDUCE the rate of transmission, REDUCE the severity of illness if you do become infected and REDUCE the number of deaths related to Covid. https://www.gavi.org/vaccineswork/mounting-evidence-suggests-covid-vaccines-do-reduce-transmission-how-does-work This simple article from The Vaccine Alliance, demonstrates that a vaccinated person is less less likely to become infected (65%-95% less depending on vaccine) PLUS a 40%-60% less likely to transmit the virus onto other. So to simplify, if 1000 vaccinated people are exposed to the virus upto 350 may still become infected... out of those upto 210 could still infect others. That is a total reduction of 79%. Cal " ----- And want to know why that's bollocks, because unvaccinated people without natural immunity are unicorns now. So comparing people with peak vaccine immunity to unvacvinated with no immunity is a nonsense comparison. " It's not bolloxs it's factual. It is proof that the vaccines ARE reducing the likelihood of passing on the virus... which is what was requested. The concept that everyone who isn't vaccinated MUST have had the virus is incredibly misguided. Cal | |||
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