FabSwingers.com forum: Needs doing x

By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

So these new measures in the supermarkets to challenge non mask wearers/and groups of people has to b done! These are exceptional times and need exceptional measures! Staff are risking their health just to go to work everyday! So if asked at front of store be kind and cooperative please! X

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"So these new measures in the supermarkets to challenge non mask wearers/and groups of people has to b done! These are exceptional times and need exceptional measures! Staff are risking their health just to go to work everyday! So if asked at front of store be kind and cooperative please! X"

And discrimination?

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination? "

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X"

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Isn't it awful that we live in a time where some people dont have enough basic respect for others to just put a bloody mask on. Thereby avoiding retail staff who just want to go to work and do their job from having to "challenge" them and people with genuine reasons not to wear one having to explain to a stranger why or wear some sort of sign round their neck reminiscent of a medieval humiliation .

Shout "sheeple" all you like, go on about taking away your freedom (while demonstrating how much freedom you have by protesting), claim that you have a right to breathe fresh air but for goodness sake wear an effing mask while you're doing it.

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By *ig1gaz1Man
over a year ago

bradford

Surprised it wasnt done in march, Was already in the local shops never did understand why it wasnt in bigger shops.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

I still don't like the word 'challenge ' it sounds confrontational. I see no harm in asking politely, if they have a mask, because there will still be those who will not wear a mask, exemption, excepted. How you deal with those people afterwards, I don't know. If they say they don't want to wear one and they are not exempt, think they have a right to refuse entry.

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By *elshsunsWoman
over a year ago

Flintshire

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X"

Discrimination..... hellooooo

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By *elshsunsWoman
over a year ago

Flintshire

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?"

You can’t ask it’s discrimination !!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination? "

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

if every single customer is given the choice of mask, lanyard or no entry where is the discrimination... everyone is being treated the same, the supermarket is just not making additional accommodations (which cant be a legal requirement or every single building would have a ramp on it)

supermarkets have not said they will refuse entry to exempt customers thats just people on here suggesting it, they also haven’t said they will ask for your medical information , so there really isn’t any law breaking going on ... if there was i doubt the companies would have come out with statements to announce it would be happening in advance

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I don't like the word challenge either. It definitely confrontational.

I am starting to genuinely dislike the whole way this is being dealt with.

Individuals are being set against each other and it won't end well in my opinion

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

If everyone who *could* wear a mask did, nobody would need asking.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Yes I totally get that! I have a transgender daughter who has aspergers! No way would I want her to b discrimanated against or anyone for that matter but this is peoples lives! I've just seen locally they have set up a temporary morgue! Tough as it is we cant mess around any more here!

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?"

Exactly!! X

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

I don't like the word challenge either. It definitely confrontational.

I am starting to genuinely dislike the whole way this is being dealt with.

Individuals are being set against each other and it won't end well in my opinion"

Agreed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

As I said challenge was the word in the email I received from work not my choice of word x

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo"

People dying hello! X

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Yup! X

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

If everyone who *could* wear a mask did, nobody would need asking."

How do you know that they aren't?

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

Yep it's not about asking it's how you ask and I would like to think the person asking has a polite way and asked every one with out a mask to make it equal.lots with health problems where one anyway or a face shield so 9 months on there is not much excuse. As for groups well WHY.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

As I said challenge was the word in the email I received from work not my choice of word x"

I appreciate that

but totally inappropriate word, perhaps you could mention it to them, in case the staff misinterpret it

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X"

Still discrimination. How are you in the position if they took all the discrimination laws and therefore they can discriminate on grounds of gender, colour, disability etc or are we just cherry picking?

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible "

So can I ask why if you have problems you can't where a face shield

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law "

its been well debated and quoted from .gov on the other threads what has been written into law, what has been provided as government “guidance” and the rest which is just peoples emotive interpretation of both ... asking someone to identify themselves as exempt is not legally discrimination

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

You can’t ask it’s discrimination !!!!"

Retail premises are private property, and as they open to the public are entitled to operate under any 'reasonable' restriction to their customers. These companies have a duty of care to their staff, and to safeguard their welfare too, giving them a safe environment to work in. Aside from a medical exemption, why should someone refuse to wear a mask to enter a store?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Wearing a lanyard or carrying a card stating 'face covering exempt' is not discrimination. That's like saying a bus driver can't ask for your bus pass to prove you're exempt from paying. Or having to show a driving licence to prove you're allowed to drive.

The problem here is that the word discrimination is thrown around as a tool against any form of questioning.

Let me be clear, I don't care if someone is wearing a mask or not, it's not my business. However, I do not accept that asking a question, that's a question, not a statement, is discriminatory in any form

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible "

you are arguing a point on behalf of others based on your own moral standpoint with no consideration for practical application

how do you expect the non exempt non mask wearers to be identified to ensure they wear a mask if people who are exempt wont identify themselves?

it really is no different to putting a blue badge in the window of your car ... it actually helps the exempt folk just as much as the non exempt by protecting them too

and you keep going on about a visual identifier and entirely missing the fact that there is a blank space in the middle of your face where a mask should be ... the visual identifier already exists

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible "

How far do you take that view? If someone has the be moved to an isolation ward due to covid, and they don't want to, should they be allowed to decide for themselves based on race, age or sex?

I'd be interested to know what people think are legitimate reasons for refusing to adhere to the safety guidance, in place to reduce the risk to everyone?

Genuine question borne of curiousity, everyone has a view!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Wearing a lanyard or carrying a card stating 'face covering exempt' is not discrimination. That's like saying a bus driver can't ask for your bus pass to prove you're exempt from paying. Or having to show a driving licence to prove you're allowed to drive.

The problem here is that the word discrimination is thrown around as a tool against any form of questioning.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law "

How bout we protect peoples lives? Just a thought? X

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not."

They're usually the first to go.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

They're usually the first to go."

I know, and fuck that shit.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

They're usually the first to go."

Dont b ridiculous! No one is suggesting throwing anyone under the bus!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible "

Purely playing devil's advocate here....

If you were in the medically exempt class, would you feel safe going into a store where people weren't taking the necessary precautions? Asking people to wear a mask is a limited restriction aimed at reducing the risk to everyone, especially those with underlying health issues. Where is the discrimination? Would you also prevent customs from searching people at the airport? Paramedics from asking people if/what substances they've taken when being treated?

It's a slippery slope to say that query and discrimination are the same thing.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

As I've said above I have a transgender daughter who has aspergers and also help look after severely disabled children when able no way would I advocate discrimination of any sorts! But as i said these are very extreme times and when one of your fellow colleagues is laying in icu it brings it home somewhat! X

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By *uliette500Woman
over a year ago

Hull

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

You can’t ask it’s discrimination !!!!"

Asking someone who is not wearing a mask is not discrimination. If they have a valid reason for not wearing one all is good.

If your answer is I dont want to wear one then out you go. Not wanting to wear a mask is very different from not being able to.

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By *he-Hosiery-GentMan
over a year ago

Older Hot Bearded Guy

Sounds great... only they don’t make any difference. Look at the daily figures. Lol

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

They're usually the first to go.

Dont b ridiculous! No one is suggesting throwing anyone under the bus!

Not literally.

But they are suggesting a loss of independence and dignity. A "well get volunteers to do it" and assuming the volunteers exist (probably not). Marking the disabled out, in a time when some argue that only the deaths of young and healthy people count.

We're better than this.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"As I've said above I have a transgender daughter who has aspergers and also help look after severely disabled children when able no way would I advocate discrimination of any sorts! But as i said these are very extreme times and when one of your fellow colleagues is laying in icu it brings it home somewhat! X"

I respect your position, but you're arguing that you don't discriminate, except now.

No except now. No.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Sounds great... only they don’t make any difference. Look at the daily figures. Lol"

We can but live in hope? X

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

They're usually the first to go.

Dont b ridiculous! No one is suggesting throwing anyone under the bus!

Not literally.

We're better than this."

It's simply the supermarket! Not asking disabled people to lock themselves away!

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

I respect your position, but you're arguing that you don't discriminate, except now.

No except now. No."

Ok x

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By *ljamMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Sounds great... only they don’t make any difference. Look at the daily figures. Lol"

How do you know the figures wouldn't be higher without masks? I'll give you a clue... you don't know, so your contribution is meaningless.

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

[Removed by poster at 12/01/21 13:17:50]

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By *lirty-CoupleCouple
over a year ago

Bexley

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though"

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children.

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"I believe everyone should be asked to wear a mask. Just like everyone should be told to use the hand sanitizer (like they do in matalan).

However if someone says exempt... end off.

It’s shit, but there’s no way to do it without discrimination and I can’t agree with that. "

I actually believe asking everyone to use hand sanitizer would be better placed than wearing masks!

Running from the car with the mask in your pocket, touching it and putting it on to nip in the shop, not washing hands and putting the same mask back in pockets... for me that’s the vile thing that would help more!

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By *uliette500Woman
over a year ago

Hull

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children."

Poor analogy.

That is nobody else's business but the womens.

People not wearing masks when they can and should be is risking other peoples lives. It's a very different thing.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Ok so can I ask please dont pm me with your views? If u are not brave enough to state that on a forum then keep it to yourself! I'm sure u very proud of yourself! But please post it here if u dare? X

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"Ok so can I ask please dont pm me with your views? If u are not brave enough to state that on a forum then keep it to yourself! I'm sure u very proud of yourself! But please post it here if u dare? X"

I got so much abuse yesterday! Crazy world lol’ hope your okay! X

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By *loppysuckerMan
over a year ago

birmingham

Costco are saying mask and for people with health problems shield. If not no entry. I don’t know how strict they are though

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children."

In the context of discrimination that analogy just does not work. We're specifically speaking about exemptions. No woman are exempt from having children should they so choose to

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

I got so much abuse yesterday! Crazy world lol’ hope your okay! X"

Yes ty I'm fine and yes crazy I can take abuse ok ty for asking x

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I'm sorry you're facing that. We should keep this public.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

I'm sorry you're facing that. We should keep this public."

Ty but it's ok I'm not easily upset by such things

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

Yes, not acceptable

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Surely people having an alternative option if they can't wear a mask is neither unjust nor unfair, but in fact reasonable and supportive. If the purpose of stores asking is to ensure people without masks by necessity are able to enter buildings, to shop and continue to about their day in the same way as anyone else would then how are they being unfairly treated? It's not like the shops decide to separate them from mask wearers so the groups don't mix or stop them from going down certain aisles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How many , in times of conflict would have used their 'valid ' reason to not wear a gas mask in the event of a gas attack.

A far fetched analogy but come on people how 'invasive ' is wearing a face mask?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Report abuse if you're getting it

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By *lirty-CoupleCouple
over a year ago

Bexley

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children.

Poor analogy.

That is nobody else's business but the womens.

People not wearing masks when they can and should be is risking other peoples lives. It's a very different thing. "

It's not meant to be an analogy, it's an example of a question which is discriminatory in law and the are countless other examples. The OP stated that asking questions isn't discriminatory.

Preventing a disabled person from shopping because they can't wear a mask for some reason would be discriminatory.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

They're usually the first to go.

Dont b ridiculous! No one is suggesting throwing anyone under the bus!

I'm not being ridiculous

. I'm staying my opinion based on observation of the current situation.

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

So can I ask why if you have problems you can't where a face shield "

Did you actually read what I said or did you just blindly reply without reading the words

Please read this again.. I said FACE COVERING which is either mask, face shield or BOTH

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

I think it’s fair to say that the genuine exempt people will continue as usual. Hopefully being as careful as possible anyway.

The trying to enforce masks is to try and get the people taking the p*ss to wear them.

If a person had forgotten one or purposely not picked one up out of the car or whatever is told to put one on it might just get them to do it first time round

Visors are also an option (not quite the same protection but better than none) for anyone who is exempt but could tolerate this.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"How many , in times of conflict would have used their 'valid ' reason to not wear a gas mask in the event of a gas attack.

A far fetched analogy but come on people how 'invasive ' is wearing a face mask? "

You clearly don't understand the nature of exemptions and why they exist.

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

you are arguing a point on behalf of others based on your own moral standpoint with no consideration for practical application

how do you expect the non exempt non mask wearers to be identified to ensure they wear a mask if people who are exempt wont identify themselves?

it really is no different to putting a blue badge in the window of your car ... it actually helps the exempt folk just as much as the non exempt by protecting them too

and you keep going on about a visual identifier and entirely missing the fact that there is a blank space in the middle of your face where a mask should be ... the visual identifier already exists "

Blue badge on a vehicle is not the same. Work it out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children.

Poor analogy.

That is nobody else's business but the womens.

People not wearing masks when they can and should be is risking other peoples lives. It's a very different thing.

It's not meant to be an analogy, it's an example of a question which is discriminatory in law and the are countless other examples. The OP stated that asking questions isn't discriminatory.

Preventing a disabled person from shopping because they can't wear a mask for some reason would be discriminatory."

Preventing entry to ANYONE not wearing a mask....they are not discriminated because of disability. And there are other options for people who are unable to wear a face covering, like exemption cards.

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

How far do you take that view? If someone has the be moved to an isolation ward due to covid, and they don't want to, should they be allowed to decide for themselves based on race, age or sex?

I'd be interested to know what people think are legitimate reasons for refusing to adhere to the safety guidance, in place to reduce the risk to everyone?

Genuine question borne of curiousity, everyone has a view!"

Yeah I get your point. Tell you what, let's destroy all the discrimination laws. Fire people to wear face coverings or let them starve. Go on, let's do that

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law

How bout we protect peoples lives? Just a thought? X"

You can by not being discriminatory. Mental health

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not."

Exactly because next it'll be gender then colour etc. Let's uphold the law

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By *ensual massagerMan
over a year ago

Bolton

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

Purely playing devil's advocate here....

It's a slippery slope to say that query and discrimination are the same thing. "

Allowing or forcing people to prove they're exempt is the slippery slope

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

Purely playing devil's advocate here....

It's a slippery slope to say that query and discrimination are the same thing.

Allowing or forcing people to prove they're exempt is the slippery slope "

Physically impossible to prove in a super market anyway haha!

I’m glad someone understands discrimination lol!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is.

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is."

THIS

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?"

Whose deciding its valid ?

I wore a mask in the supermarket yesterday, my asthma has been bad the last few days. I ended up feeling like I was going to faint. I took it off and, have ordered a lanyard today. I just cannot wear a mask some days without feeling awful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Costco are saying mask and for people with health problems shield. If not no entry. I don’t know how strict they are though "

There is a legal challenge about this as we speak. Because there is no such thing as a mask exemption it is a face covering exemption.

They have started to backtrack.

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By *hagTonightMan
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

Rightly so, it is about protecting its workers too, no mask, no entry

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Came across something called

Swiss policy research, evidence on face masks

Makes some interesting reading

I hope I haven't broken any rules by posting the name

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"Rightly so, it is about protecting its workers too, no mask, no entry

"
.

Mask under your chin on what seems to be a bus... makes your opinion on masks kind of irrelevant doesn’t it? Lol!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

Whose deciding its valid ?

An official exemption card shows proof. This could be given after a consultation. How that is rolled out I dont know but we've had at least 6 months to sort it out already.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law

How bout we protect peoples lives? Just a thought? X

You can by not being discriminatory. Mental health "

What about sop workers lives? X

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law

How bout we protect peoples lives? Just a thought? X

You can by not being discriminatory. Mental health

What about sop workers lives? X"

Any shop worker that’s exempt doesn’t have to wear one.

Should they not be allowed to work?

(Genuine question) xx

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

Whose deciding its valid ?

An official exemption card shows proof. This could be given after a consultation. How that is rolled out I dont know but we've had at least 6 months to sort it out already."

You might have noticed that the NHS are a little bit busy at the moment? Something about a disease found in a place called Wuhan?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law

How bout we protect peoples lives? Just a thought? X

You can by not being discriminatory. Mental health

What about sop workers lives? X

Any shop worker that’s exempt doesn’t have to wear one.

Should they not be allowed to work?

(Genuine question) xx"

Should other workers be forced to work in a place where people aren't wearing masks.

It works both ways

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

Purely playing devil's advocate here....

It's a slippery slope to say that query and discrimination are the same thing.

Allowing or forcing people to prove they're exempt is the slippery slope

Physically impossible to prove in a super market anyway haha!

I’m glad someone understands discrimination lol! "

Think we all understand discrimination! X

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

Purely playing devil's advocate here....

It's a slippery slope to say that query and discrimination are the same thing.

Allowing or forcing people to prove they're exempt is the slippery slope

Physically impossible to prove in a super market anyway haha!

I’m glad someone understands discrimination lol!

Think we all understand discrimination! X"

I beg to differ with some of the comments on here! (Not you) lol x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

Whose deciding its valid ?

An official exemption card shows proof. This could be given after a consultation. How that is rolled out I dont know but we've had at least 6 months to sort it out already.

You might have noticed that the NHS are a little bit busy at the moment? Something about a disease found in a place called Wuhan?"

So it's not possible then?

I guess without any determination we should just give up all hope of achieving anything. Ever

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

Whose deciding its valid ?

An official exemption card shows proof. This could be given after a consultation. How that is rolled out I dont know but we've had at least 6 months to sort it out already."

What people haven't considered is when will this end?

People are assuming this is only a temporary measure but when is the government going to say we can take our masks off because it is unlikely to be this year so what people are actually asking for

is people that cannot wear a mask to be isolated and treated as lepers for quite some time. Almost every country in the world has some form of exemption however the way their government have handled it has been totally different.

In Spain for example if you have a medical exemption you are given a card from your medical professional and if you show this you are treated treated fairly and equaly to everybody else.

The problem is the government have asked supermarkets to enforce this policy but on the government's website it says that you do not need to carry an exemption and that you routinely should not be asked if you are exempt.

It puts vulnerable individuals and those told to enforce it in a difficult situation.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Um excuse me ? A certain person asked me to not post on their posts which I have adhered to and u stated u wouldn't on mine so please could u not? Will let this one time go x

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Rightly so, it is about protecting its workers too, no mask, no entry

Yes we have a right to work safely! X

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law

How bout we protect peoples lives? Just a thought? X

You can by not being discriminatory. Mental health

What about sop workers lives? X

Any shop worker that’s exempt doesn’t have to wear one.

Should they not be allowed to work?

(Genuine question) xx"

In our store they have to wear a shield if they cant wear a mask x

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By *incskittenWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

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By *incskittenWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"Rightly so, it is about protecting its workers too, no mask, no entry

Yes we have a right to work safely! X"

That's true , and we have a right to shop safely too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children."

its actually not (personally i think it would be ride but thats another matter)

if a decision about suitability for a role was made off the back of the information then it would be discrimination... the reason people don’t ask age or those types of questions is because if you don’t have the information then you cant be accused of discrimination based on it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*rude

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

And discrimination? "

Mass death?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily."

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

If everyone was wearing masks appropriately and properly then I could understand the indignation but seeing as most people aren't I think people just need to accept there are those that genuinely cannot wear a mask and whilst I hope the won'ts will now start to wear one I just don't see how telling someone who is doing everything right according to the government's website that they should just stay inside.

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

And discrimination?

have you been to a shop and tested out your discrimination theory?

Wearing a lanyard or some other form of outward sign is total discrimination.

Now, I always wear a mask as and when required but the law has to be upheld that the country has fought for. No discrimination on the grounds of gender, disability, colour etc. Let's uphold the law "

I would assume a ventilator is far more uncomfortable than a mask so I don’t get the logic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children.

Poor analogy.

That is nobody else's business but the womens.

People not wearing masks when they can and should be is risking other peoples lives. It's a very different thing.

It's not meant to be an analogy, it's an example of a question which is discriminatory in law and the are countless other examples. The OP stated that asking questions isn't discriminatory.

Preventing a disabled person from shopping because they can't wear a mask for some reason would be discriminatory."

they arent being prevented from shopping, they are being asked to wear a lanyard so that people who don’t have an exemption can be identified and prevented - an action that prevents both exempt and mask wearers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

hear hear mumble mumble grumble(or what ever they say in Parliament) its not to big an ask.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

when does, if you dont wear a mask you cannot buy food here, turn into if you have not been injected with x you cannot do y.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children.

Poor analogy.

That is nobody else's business but the womens.

People not wearing masks when they can and should be is risking other peoples lives. It's a very different thing.

It's not meant to be an analogy, it's an example of a question which is discriminatory in law and the are countless other examples. The OP stated that asking questions isn't discriminatory.

Preventing a disabled person from shopping because they can't wear a mask for some reason would be discriminatory.

This is the point people are not being asked to wear a langyard because the government website makes it clear that you do not need to have anything on you that shows you are exempt. So the government asking supermarkets to enforce this have put them in a ridiculous situation.

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By *incskittenWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

I have one experience to go on .

2 women in a small supermarket.

Trolley almost full with alcohol.

Foul mouthed.

Shop assistant advised them that they should have face coverings on.

They hurled abuse at her.

Abhorrent behaviour.

I left the shop as didn't want to breathe the same air as them.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

you are arguing a point on behalf of others based on your own moral standpoint with no consideration for practical application

how do you expect the non exempt non mask wearers to be identified to ensure they wear a mask if people who are exempt wont identify themselves?

it really is no different to putting a blue badge in the window of your car ... it actually helps the exempt folk just as much as the non exempt by protecting them too

and you keep going on about a visual identifier and entirely missing the fact that there is a blank space in the middle of your face where a mask should be ... the visual identifier already exists

Blue badge on a vehicle is not the same. Work it out "

lanyard - a visual symbol provided to the appropriate population of people to let the relevant people know they are entitled to make use of special conditions put in place to provide them access where it may otherwise be too difficult for them

blue badge - a visual symbol provided to the appropriate population of people to let the relevant people know they are entitled to make use of special conditions put in place to provide them access where it may otherwise be too difficult for them

in one the special condition is the absence of a mask, in the other its a parking space

please enlighten me as to this vast difference ?

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By *dze 23Man
over a year ago

plymouth

if you can't ware a mask get your shopping delived simple ,another point there are videos on here which break covid rules ie group sex why is this allowed?

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

John Lewis just announced mandatory mask wearing in Waitrose and they are suspending their click and collect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I see from news stories and pictures that single parents and similar take their children into supermarkets and that these vulnerable children are not required to wear masks. Should these poor kids be forced to wear masks or does a disabled adult's right to go shopping take precedence over a vulnerable child's right to life?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

I have one experience to go on .

2 women in a small supermarket.

Trolley almost full with alcohol.

Foul mouthed.

Shop assistant advised them that they should have face coverings on.

They hurled abuse at her.

Abhorrent behaviour.

I left the shop as didn't want to breathe the same air as them."

And you always get obnoxious people that will abuse people and flout the rules but to tar everyone with the same brush and make them feel like somehow they are not part of society anymore because they can't wear a face covering is a totally different issue.

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

The issue is whether we assume people are doing their best or assume people are taking the piss and pretending to be exempt. I’m not exempt but both my children are due to age and SEN however they both wear one even though I could say ‘exempt’ surely it’s about trying to rather than just saying ‘I can’t’ ....

I’m trying to think of a reason why you can’t wear a mask for 30 mins though tbh .. what happens with oxygen masks?

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"Rightly so, it is about protecting its workers too, no mask, no entry

Yes we have a right to work safely! X

That's true , and we have a right to shop safely too."

Of course! X

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"John Lewis just announced mandatory mask wearing in Waitrose and they are suspending their click and collect."

Blimey!

Did they say why they're suspending click and collect?

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"I see from news stories and pictures that single parents and similar take their children into supermarkets and that these vulnerable children are not required to wear masks. Should these poor kids be forced to wear masks or does a disabled adult's right to go shopping take precedence over a vulnerable child's right to life? "

I’m struggling with your post are you saying single parents kids are vulnerable? That’s not always the case. Or are you saying kids are there just becoase their parents has no on to leave them with? Tbh adults are more at risk from kids than the other way round- unless they child is suffering from an underlying condition of course.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

"if you can't ware a mask get your shopping delived simple ,another point there are videos on here which break covid rules ie group sex why is this allowed?"

It's not always that simple for everyone and we are talking about mask wearing in supermarkets, not sex videos, that's another thread..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is."

do you genuinely think wearing a lanyard only when you would otherwise have a mask on removes someones dignity? this is the bit i cant get my head around and i might just be missing something, but people can already see you are not wearing a mask , so the lanyard only helps to show you have every such right to not be wearing it

in my head when you leave the shop you take the lanyard off same as others would take the mask off so its only an issue when the fact you are exempt is already clearly visible by the lack of mask anyway

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By *oncupiscence73Woman
over a year ago

South

"John Lewis just announced mandatory mask wearing in Waitrose and they are suspending their click and collect.

Blimey!

Did they say why they're suspending click and collect?

To reduce foot fall not Waitrose as thats food but John Lewis and its non essential items.

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

"John Lewis just announced mandatory mask wearing in Waitrose and they are suspending their click and collect.

Blimey!

Did they say why they're suspending click and collect?

Yes, for the time being!

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Here's an idea.

Everyone wears a lanyard saying "exempt" or 'not exempt". No argument there. Retail staff can go about there business without being asked to police their customers and it levels the playing field

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

"John Lewis just announced mandatory mask wearing in Waitrose and they are suspending their click and collect.

Blimey!

Did they say why they're suspending click and collect?

To reduce foot fall not Waitrose as thats food but John Lewis and its non essential items. "

Ooh thank you for correcting me

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By *incskittenWoman
over a year ago

Nottingham

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

I have one experience to go on .

2 women in a small supermarket.

Trolley almost full with alcohol.

Foul mouthed.

Shop assistant advised them that they should have face coverings on.

They hurled abuse at her.

Abhorrent behaviour.

I left the shop as didn't want to breathe the same air as them.

I can only comment on my own experiences .

I would not want anyone to feel they are not part of society, but in special circumstances re not being able to wear a face covering i think a lanyard, coloured ribbon or something visible isnt too much to ask.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"John Lewis just announced mandatory mask wearing in Waitrose and they are suspending their click and collect.

Blimey!

Did they say why they're suspending click and collect?

To reduce foot fall not Waitrose as thats food but John Lewis and its non essential items. "

Oh right. I understand

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Here's an idea.

Everyone wears a lanyard saying "exempt" or 'not exempt". No argument there. Retail staff can go about there business without being asked to police their customers and it levels the playing field"

*their

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Your second suggestion is what I meant. Kids may be less at risk, but they are still at risk, especially with unknown new variants manifesting themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

I have one experience to go on .

2 women in a small supermarket.

Trolley almost full with alcohol.

Foul mouthed.

Shop assistant advised them that they should have face coverings on.

They hurled abuse at her.

Abhorrent behaviour.

I left the shop as didn't want to breathe the same air as them.

I can only comment on my own experiences .

According to the government's website it is.

The vast majority of exempt people do where langyards however you only need to look at comments on threads like this and others that people don't believe it.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"The issue is whether we assume people are doing their best or assume people are taking the piss and pretending to be exempt. I’m not exempt but both my children are due to age and SEN however they both wear one even though I could say ‘exempt’ surely it’s about trying to rather than just saying ‘I can’t’ ....

I’m trying to think of a reason why you can’t wear a mask for 30 mins though tbh .. what happens with oxygen masks? "

Yes it's this all trying and looking out for each other! I would no way want to offend/hurt a disabled persons feelings or rights ever as I have witnessed this first hand! With a family member! We are all in very scary times! Love and peace to all x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

i don’t think anyone in this thread has said they need to just stay inside (i might have missed it)

they have just suggested either we find a solution that means they dont need to enter a shop (which despite not agreeing with it i can tell the difference between that and being banned from all public spaces) , or asking them to demonstrate in some way that they have an exemption (or lanyard some have said badge or card)

how is that different from the spanish solution that you seem ok with ?

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By *andlingswingersCouple
over a year ago

Woodbridge

I've been in precisely ONE shop where I've heard someone told they can wear a mask or stay outside. A jewellers. The owner said "it's always young guys."

And yes, he tried the "I've got an exemption." The shop owner asked to see it. Oddly, the guy had 'left it at home.'

To be fair, he could have tried 'the dog ate it.'

The shop owner quite rightly told him no mask, no entry.

Get serious. Not wearing a mask unless you've got some MH issues is about not just being a total prick but demanding the right to inflict your personal health choice on everybody else. Just like the Prime Minister on his bike.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is.

I agree, wear the lanyard or voluntary show your exemption card at the entrance to the store.

I have various family members who are exempt and they are all wearing masks when in shops, but they also carry their exemption in case it gets too much and need to take it off. One of these has cerebral palsy and in a wheelchair, it is quite clear he is exempt. However, he took the decision to want to learn how to put on and wear the mask with his 24hr carer, as he would like to still go shopping (his one escape from his home) but also do his bit in not spreading it if he has it and doesn’t know.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

i don’t think anyone in this thread has said they need to just stay inside (i might have missed it)

how is that different from the spanish solution that you seem ok with ? "

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

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By *amissCouple
over a year ago

chelmsford

Tesco and Asda also now...it will be interesting to see how each company handles this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children.

Poor analogy.

That is nobody else's business but the womens.

People not wearing masks when they can and should be is risking other peoples lives. It's a very different thing.

It's not meant to be an analogy, it's an example of a question which is discriminatory in law and the are countless other examples. The OP stated that asking questions isn't discriminatory.

Preventing a disabled person from shopping because they can't wear a mask for some reason would be discriminatory.

but they are being asked - by the supermarket and thats what people are kicking off at

so is the issue not the supermarket policy, its that they haven’t been backed up in black and white on the govt website ?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask? "

Some disabled people can't, no.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

i don’t think anyone in this thread has said they need to just stay inside (i might have missed it)

how is that different from the spanish solution that you seem ok with ? "

I don't think you have read what I have written at all I have said that people are not being asked in this country to show they are exempt you only need to look at the government website.

It is mixed messaging and like I said the Spanish system is very clear it is not here. At no point have I said that people shouldn't wear alang yards but I have said that they have been told they don't have to so there is the difference.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's an idea.

Everyone wears a lanyard saying "exempt" or 'not exempt". No argument there. Retail staff can go about there business without being asked to police their customers and it levels the playing field"

You guys own a lanyard business, right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is no easy answer We are asked to wear a face covering to protect others.

If others can't do that to protect me they should be shielding. ( or can show relevant proof that illness prevents them from doing so)

All the iffs and buts are killing people daily.

You cannot expect someone that cannot legitimately where a mask and is adhering to the government guidelines To just stay indoors for probably well over a year.

I have one experience to go on .

2 women in a small supermarket.

Trolley almost full with alcohol.

Foul mouthed.

Shop assistant advised them that they should have face coverings on.

They hurled abuse at her.

Abhorrent behaviour.

I left the shop as didn't want to breathe the same air as them."

i dont think you can take 2 bad apples as representative of all mon mask wearers though

but i guess the point of the debate and the actions from supermarkets is that we could identify folk like your experience as piss takers and refuse them entry

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I'm interested to know - those who say that those who can't wear a mask can't go grocery shopping. What are you doing to help those who, as a consequence, may not have ways to access essential food and hygiene items?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discriminatory to ask a question.how the answer is handled could be though

It's discrimination to ask women about their intentions for having children.

Poor analogy.

That is nobody else's business but the womens.

People not wearing masks when they can and should be is risking other peoples lives. It's a very different thing.

It's not meant to be an analogy, it's an example of a question which is discriminatory in law and the are countless other examples. The OP stated that asking questions isn't discriminatory.

Preventing a disabled person from shopping because they can't wear a mask for some reason would be discriminatory.

but they are being asked - by the supermarket and thats what people are kicking off at

so is the issue not the supermarket policy, its that they haven’t been backed up in black and white on the govt website ? "

Again they are not being asked by the supermarkets because if people had actually read the statements they would see that supermarkets are simply saying that if you have an exemption you are welcome in store and at no point have any of them said you will be expected to proof this.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no."

And nor can some able bodied. I'm not sure this issue is about disability is it? It's about wearing a mask if you are able to or have a good reason why you can't...and then go about your business.

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By *he Queen of TartsWoman
Forum Mod
over a year ago

My Own Little World

"Um excuse me ? A certain person asked me to not post on their posts which I have adhered to and u stated u wouldn't on mine so please could u not? Will let this one time go x"

This is an open forum, so anyone can comment on any thread as long as it complies with the forum rules.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no."

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no.

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?"

I don't have a clue. But the law is as it is, and hassling or excluding people with relevant conditions seems to further marginalise those with the least power.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no.

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?

I don't have a clue. But the law is as it is, and hassling or excluding people with relevant conditions seems to further marginalise those with the least power."

The law is as it is. The pandemic is as it is. Do you have a proposed solution?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Business that have taken years event decades to build have been destroyed in the last 10 months but many well say at least they are still alive and that's is the price needed to be paid to save lives.

So based on the principle surely wearing a piece of cloth over your face for a ten minutes shop which potentially stops you transmitting the virus and killing somebody along the chain is a lesser price to pay???

If you absolutely can wear a piece of cloth for those 10 minutes shopping then somebody who can should then do it for you?

It's not even an issue in many other countries its very black and white i.e. you either wear a face mask to save lives and if you can't then you don't enter environments where you will put lives at risk.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no.

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?

I don't have a clue. But the law is as it is, and hassling or excluding people with relevant conditions seems to further marginalise those with the least power.

The law is as it is. The pandemic is as it is. Do you have a proposed solution? "

Not particularly, no. I'm saying don't shit on people who can't wear masks for reasons outside their control.

Although helping those who can't get out, with or without a mask, is a solution. I already do that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is.

I agree, wear the lanyard or voluntary show your exemption card at the entrance to the store.

i think while admirable that people who are exempt try to wear a mask and there seems to be quite a few posts across the forum of such examples, it shouldn’t be required of them, they shouldn’t feel under that pressure to comply and even if they do they shouldn’t expect that it will be just as easy for others

tje problem is they probably feel like they want to so they don’t get abuse ... the abuse isn’t because they are disabled, its because someone is scared and thinks they are probably one of the piss takers (it doesn’t justify it just explains it)

it all comes back to the root cause of the issue is the piss takers and stopping them makes the experience much less stressful for everyone including the medically exempt which is why the point blank “no i dont think i should need to contribute to the effort of helping identify the piss takers at all, no budge no compromise no discussion” attitude of folk like _ensual massager just blows my mind

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By *trongbobMan
over a year ago

rochester

As I walked into Morrisons yesterday I was "challenged" by the security guy, only I didnt see it as a challenge, I had been so engrossed with sanitizing my hands and getting a paper towel to wipe down the handles on the shopping basket that I'd simply forgot to put my mask on, it was in my back pocket, i apologised to the security guy, put my mask on and then thanked him for 'reminding' me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you absolutely can wear a piece of cloth for those 10 minutes shopping then somebody who can should then do it for you?

KJ"

I am sick of people saying it is for 10 minutes because how many people have done a weeks shop in 10 minutes. The intolerance for people who cannot where a face covering is unacceptable and the simple answer is keep your distance then they are not putting your life at risk are they.

If there was no need for exemptions then there wouldn't be any.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"As I walked into Morrisons yesterday I was "challenged" by the security guy, only I didnt see it as a challenge, I had been so engrossed with sanitizing my hands and getting a paper towel to wipe down the handles on the shopping basket that I'd simply forgot to put my mask on, it was in my back pocket, i apologised to the security guy, put my mask on and then thanked him for 'reminding' me."

Amazing what can happen when we work together

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is.

I agree, wear the lanyard or voluntary show your exemption card at the entrance to the store.

They aren’t under pressure at all, it is their choice to do so for the reason in my last sentence. They haven’t been forced or suffered abuse for them to do this, they’ve done it because they want to. Just as they wear the lanyard or carry the exemption card at the same time.

The only way to stop those that flatly refuse to wear the mask for no reason is to ask the question at the door, you either put a mask on, say or show exemption or you leave

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Amazing what can happen when we work together"

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

If you absolutely can wear a piece of cloth for those 10 minutes shopping then somebody who can should then do it for you?

If there was no need for exemptions then there wouldn't be any. "

Yep If you genuinely can't wear a face covering...then you need to do your bit by making sure you are mindful of not getting too close to others. The face covering is for others benefit mostly. Which I think has been the issue all along.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

If you absolutely can wear a piece of cloth for those 10 minutes shopping then somebody who can should then do it for you?

If there was no need for exemptions then there wouldn't be any.

I suspect most do. But that doesn't mean they can't be independent adults and retrieve essential supplies for survival.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Yes of course we can all forget! Our policy even when shut and enter via the staff door is to wear mask soon as we enter (rightly so) last week I got all way to locker room and thought ohh god I didnt put my mask on!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you absolutely can wear a piece of cloth for those 10 minutes shopping then somebody who can should then do it for you?

If there was no need for exemptions then there wouldn't be any.

In more cases the not people that are exempt and do not wear a mask do keep their distance the problem is people see a space and fill it. Regardless of whether you are wearing a mask or not I think the biggest issue is people are not generally social distancing. I would say the vast majority of people I see in supermarkets are wearing masks but the vast majority are not social distancing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is.

I agree, wear the lanyard or voluntary show your exemption card at the entrance to the store.

The only way to stop those that flatly refuse to wear the mask for no reason is to ask the question at the door, you either put a mask on, say or show exemption or you leave "

i agree with you on the only way is to ask at the point of entry

but others have had abuse and i think without even meaning it, the undertone of the stories where exempt people say they wear one anyway is often read as “if i can do it why can’t others” ... even if it wasn’t meant that way it adds weight to people who are adamant everyone should just get one on regardless

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of comments on here some very differing and its good to have an open honest debate.

However, on the subject of masks the Government have already spoken and laid down the rules. Its all there in Gov.UK and explains everything.

So really the supermarkets being discussed should not have made the statements they have as they're contravening the clear information already there for everyone to see.

Now if the supermarkets and any individuals feel that the measures on Gov.UK need amending they need to lobby their MP. Not pick and choose how to implement how you think it should be.

The issue the Government had in implementing this is (as with most laws) is finding a compromise, a happy balance if you will. There is risk in this world and yes we can take steps to alleviate that but you will never achieve a risk free utopia for everyone . Mainly as due to cause and effect a new rule that keeps one individual safer (not safe) can have catastrophic implications for another (that can result in hospitalisation or even death) so the old "rock and hard place" dictates we have to have a compromise.

Does this mean some scum will flout the rules? Yes, that's sadly a by product of society. But in the main people do the right thing.

I've said on another thread that, given the very clear and very easy to understand facts as per Gov.UK I can't help but cynical that, with the wording of the Morrison's statement in particular (Sainsburys have been mis-quoted), they're using this as a 'positive' marketing tool because I do not believe for once second Morrisons have not checked Gov.UK before issuing their latest statement. They have a legal team. They must have. But hope to boost their sales by enticing people into their supposed "Covid free shopping utopia"

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no.

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?

I don't have a clue. But the law is as it is, and hassling or excluding people with relevant conditions seems to further marginalise those with the least power.

The law is as it is. The pandemic is as it is. Do you have a proposed solution?

Not particularly, no. I'm saying don't shit on people who can't wear masks for reasons outside their control.

Although helping those who can't get out, with or without a mask, is a solution. I already do that

I haven't read all the posts, but we've done this dance many times before... I don't think anyone is shitting on anyone. There's lots of frustration however with people not doing their bit when they are able to. Surely it's as simple as wear one, or be prepared to show good reason and if not prepared to show good reason then be prepared to be asked to shop somewhere else. Some things in life are complicated. This isn't really.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no.

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?

I don't have a clue. But the law is as it is, and hassling or excluding people with relevant conditions seems to further marginalise those with the least power.

The law is as it is. The pandemic is as it is. Do you have a proposed solution?

Not particularly, no. I'm saying don't shit on people who can't wear masks for reasons outside their control.

Although helping those who can't get out, with or without a mask, is a solution. I already do that

It is complicated, because it gets into the realm of private medical information (which doesn't always have documentation attached), and it subjects some people to a different process.

We cannot sacrifice the disabled. Not even in a crisis.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does this mean some scum will flout the rules? Yes, that's sadly a by product of society. But in the main people do the right thing.

when i read these comments i often wonder if i live in a much shittier area than others because in the main people around me don’t ... wonder if this is part of where the disagreements come from ... its a larger or smaller problem depending on how selfish or caring your community are

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By *aysOfOurLivesCouple
over a year ago

Essex

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

You can’t ask it’s discrimination !!!!"

All forms of discrimination is wrong. Asking someone to show they are exempt is not discriminatory.

For example: If you claim a disability benefit you’ll be required to prove you are eligible. It is simply not discriminatory to ask someone for proof of eligibility. And for those who refuse should be suffer the consequences of their actions - refusal of entry for the protection of others (and themselves)

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

"If there were a way to legally, with dignity, sort out the exempt from the piss takers, I'm all for it. If you can wear a mask you should.

But I don't think there is.

I agree, wear the lanyard or voluntary show your exemption card at the entrance to the store.

The only way to stop those that flatly refuse to wear the mask for no reason is to ask the question at the door, you either put a mask on, say or show exemption or you leave

i agree with you on the only way is to ask at the point of entry

I see that as interpretation by the reader, it’s a choice as said before and should make it easier on them when entering a premises doesn’t have to be a face covering, to say I’m exempt with a click flash of the card and in you go or wear the lanyard. Options are there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

How far do you take that view? If someone has the be moved to an isolation ward due to covid, and they don't want to, should they be allowed to decide for themselves based on race, age or sex?

I'd be interested to know what people think are legitimate reasons for refusing to adhere to the safety guidance, in place to reduce the risk to everyone?

Genuine question borne of curiousity, everyone has a view!

Yeah I get your point. Tell you what, let's destroy all the discrimination laws. Fire people to wear face coverings or let them starve. Go on, let's do that "

Confused why you don't actually answer any of the points raised? Just saying the word discrimination repeatedly doesn't really make your point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

Exactly because next it'll be gender then colour etc. Let's uphold the law "

So if the wearing of masks in public, becomes law (being debated this week) then it's ok?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no.

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?

I don't have a clue. But the law is as it is, and hassling or excluding people with relevant conditions seems to further marginalise those with the least power.

The law is as it is. The pandemic is as it is. Do you have a proposed solution?

Not particularly, no. I'm saying don't shit on people who can't wear masks for reasons outside their control.

Although helping those who can't get out, with or without a mask, is a solution. I already do that

It is complicated, because it gets into the realm of private medical information (which doesn't always have documentation attached), and it subjects some people to a different process.

We cannot sacrifice the disabled. Not even in a crisis."

What's the biggest sacrifice been asked is the key question.

Option 1 - To ask mask exempt to stay away from public places that are known vectors for transmission to potentially SAVE THE LIVES of people they may infect.

Option 2 - To allow people Mask Exempt to shop freely without a mask in high transmission enviroments such as supermarkets. Accept that this will ultimately cost some other people their lives but those lives sacrificed to allow mask exempt people to be able to shop and not feel / be discrimiated against is fair price to pay.

Those are the options effectively right?

All I will say is my Local authority has dedicated teams that support those who are mask exempt and those that for whatever reason can't leave the house. Free Services provided include providing shopping collectors, food parcel deliveries, staff to go collect prescriptions and much more. There's even a women's health project to ensure woman get personal items delivered by a female staff member. 2nd to this furloughed staff are in volunteering to man a support call centre for all residents who need any help whatsoever even if its just to have a chat to another human for a bit. I have spent a lot of time myself since March supporting all of the above.

Now clearly all of the above is in place in my area in a bid to try and drive down the transmission of covid. I can't speak for other local authorities in England. I will also say this they are performing way better than the adjacent local authorities in terms of deaths and infections rates per 100,000.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

My local area has done things but it doesn't reach all the need.

Ditto the voluntary groups that try to pick up the slack.

Anyone who's read anything I say knows I take this virus incredibly seriously and am doing way more than is asked of me.

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By *andyfloss2000 OP Woman
over a year ago

ashford

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

I agree exceptional times but once you throw disability discrimination away, what's to say you won't throw away other forms of discrimination such as gender, gender preferences, colour etc?

Disabled people can't wear a mask?

Some disabled people can't, no.

What percentage of the population would you estimate are medically incapable of wearing a mask?

I don't have a clue. But the law is as it is, and hassling or excluding people with relevant conditions seems to further marginalise those with the least power.

The law is as it is. The pandemic is as it is. Do you have a proposed solution?

Not particularly, no. I'm saying don't shit on people who can't wear masks for reasons outside their control.

Although helping those who can't get out, with or without a mask, is a solution. I already do that

It is complicated, because it gets into the realm of private medical information (which doesn't always have documentation attached), and it subjects some people to a different process.

We cannot sacrifice the disabled. Not even in a crisis.

What's the biggest sacrifice been asked is the key question.

Option 1 - To ask mask exempt to stay away from public places that are known vectors for transmission to potentially SAVE THE LIVES of people they may infect.

Those are the options effectively right?

KJ"

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"So in exceptional times we get to throw the vulnerable and the disabled under the bus?

Absolutely not.

Exactly because next it'll be gender then colour etc. Let's uphold the law

So if the wearing of masks in public, becomes law (being debated this week) then it's ok?"

It’s only going to be law unless your exempt though... and if you can’t challenge exempt people it’s only going to act as a reminder to the “healthy”‘to wear one isn’t it?

Fine like between stopping the selfish and genuinely being exempt.

How do you prove your genuine

Such a hard topic! Appreciate everyone’s views on it x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And discrimination?

As I said exceptional times exceptional measures! X

Discrimination..... hellooooo

People dying hello! X

Don't get me wrong, I'd totally agree that every one who could wear a face covering does so but I also defend the more vulnerable in our society and discrimination on any grounds is reprehensible

Purely playing devil's advocate here....

It's a slippery slope to say that query and discrimination are the same thing.

Allowing or forcing people to prove they're exempt is the slippery slope "

Can you give that some context? Explain why proving a situation or condition is discriminatory? Our society asks for proof in many daily situations. Age, proof of competency, qualifications. Generally, these situations are to protect people or reduce risk of harm. staff in hardware stores often herd or coral customers away from forklifts or timber saws. Visitors to construction sites have to wear hard hats and hi viz. Why is this specifically different?

Of course, a lot of this comes back to the original points about the difference between can't wear a mask, and don't wear a mask. Presumably, you'd be perfectly happy if the shop you want to go to closes because none of the staff feel safe at work because of the number of people not wearing masks

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By *rsbrooksandjohnCouple
over a year ago

Swansea

At the end of the day. It is down to us to follow the rules and if questioned give a civil reply. I have to wear a mask all day for my job.

But also any company, store,venue.or private residence has the right to refuse entry to poeple if they so wish.

And it is not a breach of human rights or for of discrimination as said on other threads .

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By *ady LickWoman
over a year ago

Northampton Somewhere

I can't believe people are still getting narked about this.

I work in a shop, we appreciate it if people wear masks to keep us and themselves safe from a virus which can lead to death.

If you are exempt that is of course absolutely fine. If you have a lanyard that's great because we know then that you are exempt. If it makes you feel discriminated by wearing one just put it under your coat, we can usually see enough of it to know.

If you don't wear one and still wish to shop have an oodle of manners and respect and keep your distance from staff and other customers.

If asked nicely "are you unable to wear a mask" just say no, that is enough. If you get ranty we'll think you're a, how shall I say, a cunt. Sorry but genuinely exempt people don't cause a fuss.

Much love

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It is not discrimination to ask. If the answer is valid then surely they'll be allowed to go about their business?

Whose deciding its valid ?

I get the same thing. I've bought a runners mask which has a shaped front which allows you to breath a little easier. Genuinely makes a difference and means I can wear it for longer periods. Worth a look

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By *luttyLaylaWoman
over a year ago

North West

"I can't believe people are still getting narked about this.

I work in a shop, we appreciate it if people wear masks to keep us and themselves safe from a virus which can lead to death.

If you don't wear one and still wish to shop have an oodle of manners and respect and keep your distance from staff and other customers.

If asked nicely "are you unable to wear a mask" just say no, that is enough. If you get ranty we'll think you're a, how shall I say, a cunt. Sorry but genuinely exempt people don't cause a fuss.

Much love

This

I wish there was the clapping emoji sometimes! Ha

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