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"It's getting the staff to do the injections" Everything in the ground is ready.staff ready trained to go It's the senior management that seems to be halting it.. So not at gp level, nor level above (pcn..primary care network).its above them | |||
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"It's getting the staff to do the injections" SS has managed mass vaccinations (including multiples to individuals) in the UK and overseas (standard vaccines plus the more esoteric like Rabies, Anthrax and Plague). He's just told me that to vaccinate 140 people with a single vaccine e.g. hepatitis-B (insert COVID-19 if you wish) needs appropriate premises, security and equipment (including full resus in case of anaphylaxis) as well as a trained team: 2 reception staff 1 secretary 1 nurse 1 pharmacy technician 10 medics (combat medical technicians) 5 doctors plus non-medical staff for parking / direction etc. and you can get approximately 140 people through in 3 hours. The limiting steps sare obtaining informed written consent, updating the individuals medical record and ensuring that they have instructions on when, where and how they get the next dose. Loz | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14." Why is it silly? I agree that 9am to 8pm might work for the elderly, but it could be 7 days a week. In addition, the other available time could be used for essential staff. We should be pushing as hard as we can to get people vacvinated, I just don’t feel that this has been given the emphasis and push that it needs. | |||
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" Well this is the famous "Chickens coming home to roost" after 9 years of so called austerity which was code for lets cut everything ,we are sadly now seeing the results of the cuts ?? even with the best will in the world we wouldn't be able to do 24/7 same as a complete lock down just not enough bodies on the ground to either do it or enforce it ? where we live the Hospital seems to be "Opal watch " nearly every week and we had to phone the police last year and ended up talking to a person in Glasgow ?? and we have about half the numbers of GP'S we used to have ? record numbers of teachers have left and we know of 6 nurses who have quit and are working for a certain German supermarket on better pay and working conditions ? and 1 has even moved to Scotland where she does the exact same job but again better pay ? and for people to say Boris is doing the best he can ?? but i guess that what happens when you put profit for your mates/backers before the public ?? due to mrs4 job she know and has talked to people on the so called "Coal Face" and they aren't at all amused by the handling of any of it and even warned the Government if they did this ..that would happen only to be ignored ? so following science my ass" I was listening to a podcast and the host was talking about the NHS being overloaded and not being able to cope. But he didn't mention Covid which I thought was odd until I noticed it was a podcast from January 2020. | |||
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"It's getting the staff to do the injections SS has managed mass vaccinations (including multiples to individuals) in the UK and overseas (standard vaccines plus the more esoteric like Rabies, Anthrax and Plague). He's just told me that to vaccinate 140 people with a single vaccine e.g. hepatitis-B (insert COVID-19 if you wish) needs appropriate premises, security and equipment (including full resus in case of anaphylaxis) as well as a trained team: 2 reception staff 1 secretary 1 nurse 1 pharmacy technician 10 medics (combat medical technicians) 5 doctors plus non-medical staff for parking / direction etc. and you can get approximately 140 people through in 3 hours. The limiting steps sare obtaining informed written consent, updating the individuals medical record and ensuring that they have instructions on when, where and how they get the next dose. Loz " Not an attack & I acknowledge others expertise, but having had the flu jab, receptionist & a nurse was all I saw. I am certain there were more in the building but not that many. How does the logistics of flu vaccine & Covid differ? | |||
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"It's getting the staff to do the injections SS has managed mass vaccinations (including multiples to individuals) in the UK and overseas (standard vaccines plus the more esoteric like Rabies, Anthrax and Plague). He's just told me that to vaccinate 140 people with a single vaccine e.g. hepatitis-B (insert COVID-19 if you wish) needs appropriate premises, security and equipment (including full resus in case of anaphylaxis) as well as a trained team: 2 reception staff 1 secretary 1 nurse 1 pharmacy technician 10 medics (combat medical technicians) 5 doctors plus non-medical staff for parking / direction etc. and you can get approximately 140 people through in 3 hours. The limiting steps sare obtaining informed written consent, updating the individuals medical record and ensuring that they have instructions on when, where and how they get the next dose. Loz Not an attack & I acknowledge others expertise, but having had the flu jab, receptionist & a nurse was all I saw. I am certain there were more in the building but not that many. How does the logistics of flu vaccine & Covid differ?" As it stands because it is a new vaccine patients have to stay on site for 15 mins post vaccination. This is to ensure anyone who has a severe reaction can be treated and isn't already in their car on the way home. Severe reactions normally occur immediately or within a few mins after the injection. Due to this you need to factor in social distancing and so size of your premises dictates how many you can do in in hour. It isn't simply a case of how many staff you have. With the flu vaccine it is straight in and out no waiting around after so can be done much faster. | |||
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"It's getting the staff to do the injections SS has managed mass vaccinations (including multiples to individuals) in the UK and overseas (standard vaccines plus the more esoteric like Rabies, Anthrax and Plague). He's just told me that to vaccinate 140 people with a single vaccine e.g. hepatitis-B (insert COVID-19 if you wish) needs appropriate premises, security and equipment (including full resus in case of anaphylaxis) as well as a trained team: 2 reception staff 1 secretary 1 nurse 1 pharmacy technician 10 medics (combat medical technicians) 5 doctors plus non-medical staff for parking / direction etc. and you can get approximately 140 people through in 3 hours. The limiting steps sare obtaining informed written consent, updating the individuals medical record and ensuring that they have instructions on when, where and how they get the next dose. Loz Not an attack & I acknowledge others expertise, but having had the flu jab, receptionist & a nurse was all I saw. I am certain there were more in the building but not that many. How does the logistics of flu vaccine & Covid differ? As it stands because it is a new vaccine patients have to stay on site for 15 mins post vaccination. This is to ensure anyone who has a severe reaction can be treated and isn't already in their car on the way home. Severe reactions normally occur immediately or within a few mins after the injection. Due to this you need to factor in social distancing and so size of your premises dictates how many you can do in in hour. It isn't simply a case of how many staff you have. With the flu vaccine it is straight in and out no waiting around after so can be done much faster. " Yep. I was there an hour and a half for my first dose. I have to read all the information, fill in consent forms, they have to input all that data, then I need to chat with a nurse to make sure I'm medically suitable and to answer any questions, then I queued for a boothe, 5 minutes in there and then 15 minutes wait before I could leave to ensure I didn't have a reaction. All of this while having to maintain social distancing from others getting the vaccine, every chair I sat in had to be cleaned down before someone else sat in it and staff had to change PPE and wash their hands between every person. | |||
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"It's getting the staff to do the injections SS has managed mass vaccinations (including multiples to individuals) in the UK and overseas (standard vaccines plus the more esoteric like Rabies, Anthrax and Plague). He's just told me that to vaccinate 140 people with a single vaccine e.g. hepatitis-B (insert COVID-19 if you wish) needs appropriate premises, security and equipment (including full resus in case of anaphylaxis) as well as a trained team: 2 reception staff 1 secretary 1 nurse 1 pharmacy technician 10 medics (combat medical technicians) 5 doctors plus non-medical staff for parking / direction etc. and you can get approximately 140 people through in 3 hours. The limiting steps sare obtaining informed written consent, updating the individuals medical record and ensuring that they have instructions on when, where and how they get the next dose. Loz Not an attack & I acknowledge others expertise, but having had the flu jab, receptionist & a nurse was all I saw. I am certain there were more in the building but not that many. How does the logistics of flu vaccine & Covid differ? As it stands because it is a new vaccine patients have to stay on site for 15 mins post vaccination. This is to ensure anyone who has a severe reaction can be treated and isn't already in their car on the way home. Severe reactions normally occur immediately or within a few mins after the injection. Due to this you need to factor in social distancing and so size of your premises dictates how many you can do in in hour. It isn't simply a case of how many staff you have. With the flu vaccine it is straight in and out no waiting around after so can be done much faster. Yep. I was there an hour and a half for my first dose. I have to read all the information, fill in consent forms, they have to input all that data, then I need to chat with a nurse to make sure I'm medically suitable and to answer any questions, then I queued for a boothe, 5 minutes in there and then 15 minutes wait before I could leave to ensure I didn't have a reaction. All of this while having to maintain social distancing from others getting the vaccine, every chair I sat in had to be cleaned down before someone else sat in it and staff had to change PPE and wash their hands between every person. " Thanks Lacey for making the process clear | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. " I feel it definitely holds true for politicians, it's the ones who are stupid and recklessly bend the rules they themselves create who've come down with Covid- Trump, Johnson, Macron to name a few. We have more sensible ones like Biden or Sturgeon who've stayed safe. | |||
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"It's getting the staff to do the injections SS has managed mass vaccinations (including multiples to individuals) in the UK and overseas (standard vaccines plus the more esoteric like Rabies, Anthrax and Plague). He's just told me that to vaccinate 140 people with a single vaccine e.g. hepatitis-B (insert COVID-19 if you wish) needs appropriate premises, security and equipment (including full resus in case of anaphylaxis) as well as a trained team: 2 reception staff 1 secretary 1 nurse 1 pharmacy technician 10 medics (combat medical technicians) 5 doctors plus non-medical staff for parking / direction etc. and you can get approximately 140 people through in 3 hours. The limiting steps sare obtaining informed written consent, updating the individuals medical record and ensuring that they have instructions on when, where and how they get the next dose. Loz Not an attack & I acknowledge others expertise, but having had the flu jab, receptionist & a nurse was all I saw. I am certain there were more in the building but not that many. How does the logistics of flu vaccine & Covid differ? As it stands because it is a new vaccine patients have to stay on site for 15 mins post vaccination. This is to ensure anyone who has a severe reaction can be treated and isn't already in their car on the way home. Severe reactions normally occur immediately or within a few mins after the injection. Due to this you need to factor in social distancing and so size of your premises dictates how many you can do in in hour. It isn't simply a case of how many staff you have. With the flu vaccine it is straight in and out no waiting around after so can be done much faster. Yep. I was there an hour and a half for my first dose. I have to read all the information, fill in consent forms, they have to input all that data, then I need to chat with a nurse to make sure I'm medically suitable and to answer any questions, then I queued for a boothe, 5 minutes in there and then 15 minutes wait before I could leave to ensure I didn't have a reaction. All of this while having to maintain social distancing from others getting the vaccine, every chair I sat in had to be cleaned down before someone else sat in it and staff had to change PPE and wash their hands between every person. " It is great to hear how it is actually going. We do seem to be ahead of some countries in this, but Israel is already achieving 150,000 per day. I wonder if we could learn some lessons from how others do it & see if the vaccination rate can be accelerated. The benefits seem pretty clear, so hopefully more resources can be put into doing this. Perhaps we should adopt a ‘national service’ model and get more volunteers into the process. If it is going to go on for at least 12 months we should do it differently. | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14. Why is it silly? I agree that 9am to 8pm might work for the elderly, but it could be 7 days a week. In addition, the other available time could be used for essential staff. We should be pushing as hard as we can to get people vacvinated, I just don’t feel that this has been given the emphasis and push that it needs. " Trust me its silly | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14. Why is it silly? I agree that 9am to 8pm might work for the elderly, but it could be 7 days a week. In addition, the other available time could be used for essential staff. We should be pushing as hard as we can to get people vacvinated, I just don’t feel that this has been given the emphasis and push that it needs. Trust me its silly" This might be why we don’t get things done! It is silly not to even try... | |||
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"It's getting the staff to do the injections SS has managed mass vaccinations (including multiples to individuals) in the UK and overseas (standard vaccines plus the more esoteric like Rabies, Anthrax and Plague). He's just told me that to vaccinate 140 people with a single vaccine e.g. hepatitis-B (insert COVID-19 if you wish) needs appropriate premises, security and equipment (including full resus in case of anaphylaxis) as well as a trained team: 2 reception staff 1 secretary 1 nurse 1 pharmacy technician 10 medics (combat medical technicians) 5 doctors plus non-medical staff for parking / direction etc. and you can get approximately 140 people through in 3 hours. The limiting steps sare obtaining informed written consent, updating the individuals medical record and ensuring that they have instructions on when, where and how they get the next dose. Loz Not an attack & I acknowledge others expertise, but having had the flu jab, receptionist & a nurse was all I saw. I am certain there were more in the building but not that many. How does the logistics of flu vaccine & Covid differ? As it stands because it is a new vaccine patients have to stay on site for 15 mins post vaccination. This is to ensure anyone who has a severe reaction can be treated and isn't already in their car on the way home. Severe reactions normally occur immediately or within a few mins after the injection. Due to this you need to factor in social distancing and so size of your premises dictates how many you can do in in hour. It isn't simply a case of how many staff you have. With the flu vaccine it is straight in and out no waiting around after so can be done much faster. Yep. I was there an hour and a half for my first dose. I have to read all the information, fill in consent forms, they have to input all that data, then I need to chat with a nurse to make sure I'm medically suitable and to answer any questions, then I queued for a boothe, 5 minutes in there and then 15 minutes wait before I could leave to ensure I didn't have a reaction. All of this while having to maintain social distancing from others getting the vaccine, every chair I sat in had to be cleaned down before someone else sat in it and staff had to change PPE and wash their hands between every person. Thanks Lacey for making the process clear " No problem, happy to share my experiences  | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. I feel it definitely holds true for politicians, it's the ones who are stupid and recklessly bend the rules they themselves create who've come down with Covid- Trump, Johnson, Macron to name a few. We have more sensible ones like Biden or Sturgeon who've stayed safe." So what you're saying is that 383,000 + people who contracted the virus last week are stupid and reckless? Obviously the ones who don't catch it are really clever and not reckless? Are the people more stupid and reckless with this new strain because the numbers are increasing | |||
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"Any one who goes to a doctors , the hospital, dentist , even the vets should be given the option to have the jab , these people are there and staff are there who can inject , open up Mecca and gala bingo halls , there massive buildings get as many people in there to have there injections, there’s plenty of room for them to sit and wait for 15 minutes, are St. John’s staff trained to inject ? " That's assuming that the St John's staff aren't working in other essential jobs. Many I knew had regular jobs and were St John's in their spare time and tbf, I don't think they are, similar to first sides, not trained to inject | |||
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"As ever, Boris is spouting bullshit because he has no understanding of the logistics involved. He can't even do the basic arithmetic, FFS! The Government has bought 100,000,000 doses of the O-AZ vaccine. Even if they can manufacture 2,000,000 a week - that's going to take 11 months to make them all. Getting them into patients? That's another story. Even working 24/7 - which isn't going to happen due to the various limitations humans give rise to - getting " back to normal" by Easter seems unlikely. For the entirety of the Covid 19 crisis, Boris and his Cabinet have miscalculated, over-promised and under-delivered on just about every important decision they've had to make. Indeed, Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus. Frankie Boyle summed it up best, back in September, whilst talking about how inept all our politicians are: "The Cabinet prove that you really can be whatever you want to be; providing you want to be some sort of cunt."" I'll assume that you have also had covid due to the stupidity of your comment about Boris catching it then. | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. I feel it definitely holds true for politicians, it's the ones who are stupid and recklessly bend the rules they themselves create who've come down with Covid- Trump, Johnson, Macron to name a few. We have more sensible ones like Biden or Sturgeon who've stayed safe." I'm sensible, followed rules, stayed safe, still caught, probably shouldn't comment as by your reckoning I'm also stupid. | |||
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"Likewise, no holidays, no real family contact, no meals out even during the summer bonanza, new job in school 3 weeks in & I caught it. Please don’t call me stupid." The only place I'd been with other people around was a supermarket. Make of that what you will. | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. " We get you hate Boris it’s become apparent over the majority of your posts and quite frankly it’s rather dull. You only juggle your two balls he juggles many and has done his best in a shit situation. No matter what he does he would piss people like yourself off, he has made mistakes but haven’t you?. | |||
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"Any one who goes to a doctors , the hospital, dentist , even the vets should be given the option to have the jab , these people are there and staff are there who can inject , open up Mecca and gala bingo halls , there massive buildings get as many people in there to have there injections, there’s plenty of room for them to sit and wait for 15 minutes, are St. John’s staff trained to inject ? " Yes they are, also the government via nhs professional are doing a massive recruitment drive currently for staff to be trained to administer the vaccine having worked for the nhs I applied yesterday. | |||
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"Any one who goes to a doctors , the hospital, dentist , even the vets should be given the option to have the jab , these people are there and staff are there who can inject , open up Mecca and gala bingo halls , there massive buildings get as many people in there to have there injections, there’s plenty of room for them to sit and wait for 15 minutes, are St. John’s staff trained to inject ? Yes they are, also the government via nhs professional are doing a massive recruitment drive currently for staff to be trained to administer the vaccine having worked for the nhs I applied yesterday. " Where is the advertising for this ‘massive’ recruitment drive? Given most of the roles shouldn’t need to be medically qualified, it should be easy to do - but I have a feeling it will be overly complicated and not open to most people... | |||
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"Any one who goes to a doctors , the hospital, dentist , even the vets should be given the option to have the jab , these people are there and staff are there who can inject , open up Mecca and gala bingo halls , there massive buildings get as many people in there to have there injections, there’s plenty of room for them to sit and wait for 15 minutes, are St. John’s staff trained to inject ? Yes they are, also the government via nhs professional are doing a massive recruitment drive currently for staff to be trained to administer the vaccine having worked for the nhs I applied yesterday. Where is the advertising for this ‘massive’ recruitment drive? Given most of the roles shouldn’t need to be medically qualified, it should be easy to do - but I have a feeling it will be overly complicated and not open to most people..." I had the link sent to me from nhs professionals as I still have a bank contract with them. | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. " In his case, it's appropriate. He knew the risks, bragged publicly about shaking hands with Covid 19 sufferers, caught it and, possibly, passed it on to others. So, yes; fucking stupid. | |||
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"So it sounds like it is even more important for the vaccine rollout to be accelerated. There is noreason whatsoever, why it cannot be done 24/7. Someone should be running this as a dedicated job. This is probably the single most important thing for us to do, to enablexa return to normality. Anyone know who is actually organising this? Hopefully it isn’t Chris Greyling or Dido Harding... "There are valid reasons. The people able to administer the injections | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. In his case, it's appropriate. He knew the risks, bragged publicly about shaking hands with Covid 19 sufferers, caught it and, possibly, passed it on to others. So, yes; fucking stupid." You can add arrogant to that. | |||
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"Ah, similar to most threads then. Call Boris names. Gets a lot done, doesn't it.. Be very careful calling the prime minister and the government because when it turns into a police state under martial law as most want, they'll be after you " lol. | |||
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"So it sounds like it is even more important for the vaccine rollout to be accelerated. There is noreason whatsoever, why it cannot be done 24/7. Someone should be running this as a dedicated job. This is probably the single most important thing for us to do, to enablexa return to normality. Anyone know who is actually organising this? Hopefully it isn’t Chris Greyling or Dido Harding...
There are valid reasons. The people able to administer the injections "The vast majority of the process is logistical and not medical. Focus the medics on the specialisms and get others in to do the rest. If we were doing this at Israels pace, we’d have nearly 7m vaccinated by now... | |||
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"We were thinking this the other day. 24/7 vaccination programme. Does anyone know if the army medics are involved in the vaccination programme?" Most army medics are also NHS medics. So they're already working in the NHS anyway. | |||
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"So it sounds like it is even more important for the vaccine rollout to be accelerated. There is noreason whatsoever, why it cannot be done 24/7. Someone should be running this as a dedicated job. This is probably the single most important thing for us to do, to enablexa return to normality. Anyone know who is actually organising this? Hopefully it isn’t Chris Greyling or Dido Harding... "Alok Sharma, the business secretary, is now in charge of the vaccine roll out from the Govt side. | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14. Why is it silly? I agree that 9am to 8pm might work for the elderly, but it could be 7 days a week. In addition, the other available time could be used for essential staff. We should be pushing as hard as we can to get people vacvinated, I just don’t feel that this has been given the emphasis and push that it needs. Trust me its silly This might be why we don’t get things done! It is silly not to even try... "Really ? In many areas they cannot recruit registered staff. Volenteers are ok but, they need someone who can administer adrenaline if required post vaccination. Usual nhs work continues - who do you think can do this ? This Government and, people need to be realistic. Primary care has an ageing clinical population. For many doing 12hr shifts, or any extra shifts is impossible due to their health. You try standing in the freezing cold administering a medication that needs to be drawn up and mixed (not shaken). People are doing their best. | |||
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"So I'm wondering ? How many people do they manage to vaccinate an hour in 3rd world refugee camps I'm thinking that the red cross or medicines sans frontiers can manage more than 140 an hour Not a dig but an actual question " When giving flu jabs you get 2 minutes to gain consent and inject and document. If you are lucky an admin will document. With this vaccine there is a questionnaire people need to answer, then consent is gained. The actual giving the jab is the smallest part. | |||
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 ), use big tech company’s (not Serco!) - I mean they have had a year to think about a Vaccination Programme, it didn’t just come as a surprise gift on Xmas Eve... | |||
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"So I'm wondering ? How many people do they manage to vaccinate an hour in 3rd world refugee camps I'm thinking that the red cross or medicines sans frontiers can manage more than 140 an hour Not a dig but an actual question " Completely different. Cannot compare with this highly transmittal disease | |||
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"Any one who goes to a doctors , the hospital, dentist , even the vets should be given the option to have the jab , these people are there and staff are there who can inject , open up Mecca and gala bingo halls , there massive buildings get as many people in there to have there injections, there’s plenty of room for them to sit and wait for 15 minutes, are St. John’s staff trained to inject ? Yes they are, also the government via nhs professional are doing a massive recruitment drive currently for staff to be trained to administer the vaccine having worked for the nhs I applied yesterday. Where is the advertising for this ‘massive’ recruitment drive? Given most of the roles shouldn’t need to be medically qualified, it should be easy to do - but I have a feeling it will be overly complicated and not open to most people..." The nearest mass vaccine centre to me is to open on the 11th jan that sounds good to me just a matter of waiting for a call. | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead "No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. "Exactly.  | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly. "Seconded | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded "People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience. The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths. Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands... | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14. Why is it silly? I agree that 9am to 8pm might work for the elderly, but it could be 7 days a week. In addition, the other available time could be used for essential staff. We should be pushing as hard as we can to get people vacvinated, I just don’t feel that this has been given the emphasis and push that it needs. " I hope you've both volunteered to do the night shift! | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14. Why is it silly? I agree that 9am to 8pm might work for the elderly, but it could be 7 days a week. In addition, the other available time could be used for essential staff. We should be pushing as hard as we can to get people vacvinated, I just don’t feel that this has been given the emphasis and push that it needs. I hope you've both volunteered to do the night shift!" Would be happy to | |||
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"I think so!! Im in a position where I'd happily train to do them!! It should be 24/7. They should also be making an effort to develop a nasal one like flu. Easier and quicker to give. " The nasal flu spray (licensed for U18s only) technology does not translate to the technology needed to make these Covid vaccines. The nasal flu spray uses whole, live attenuated flu virus. This is not suitable for Covid vaccines. The mRNA and modified adenovirus technology would need a lot of modification to work adequately and bear in mind this is the first successful set of vaccines for any human coronavirus. I wouldn't hold my breath for a nasal spray type. | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. In his case, it's appropriate. He knew the risks, bragged publicly about shaking hands with Covid 19 sufferers, caught it and, possibly, passed it on to others. So, yes; fucking stupid." Yep, he was on the news every night for weeks telling us all to stay apart with up to 20/30 aides etc crowded behind him, then walking off through the middle of that crowd. There was no testing at that time and I said "What have they got that they can gather like that when we can't?" Turns out it was stupidity! | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. In his case, it's appropriate. He knew the risks, bragged publicly about shaking hands with Covid 19 sufferers, caught it and, possibly, passed it on to others. So, yes; fucking stupid. Yep, he was on the news every night for weeks telling us all to stay apart with up to 20/30 aides etc crowded behind him, then walking off through the middle of that crowd. There was no testing at that time and I said "What have they got that they can gather like that when we can't?" Turns out it was stupidity!" And you're saying that everyone else that contracted Covid is stupid? | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands..."Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health! However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not. If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia. | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia."...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’ | |||
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"So it sounds like it is even more important for the vaccine rollout to be accelerated. There is noreason whatsoever, why it cannot be done 24/7. Someone should be running this as a dedicated job. This is probably the single most important thing for us to do, to enablexa return to normality. Anyone know who is actually organising this? Hopefully it isn’t Chris Greyling or Dido Harding...
There are valid reasons. The people able to administer the injections
The vast majority of the process is logistical and not medical. Focus the medics on the specialisms and get others in to do the rest. If we were doing this at Israels pace, we’d have nearly 7m vaccinated by now..."Isreal have done 12 times as many as us in less the time. | |||
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"...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’ "I think what you're saying is that the effect I've described has already killed a lot of people! Can we agree that when it's all over the Govt policy will have resulted in far more life lost than saved? Notice I said life, not lives, as in a cancer sufferer who goes terminal for lack of care may easily lose 70 years, few C19 victims will loss anywhere near that, the vast majority under 5. | |||
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"We were thinking this the other day. 24/7 vaccination programme. Does anyone know if the army medics are involved in the vaccination programme? Most army medics are also NHS medics. So they're already working in the NHS anyway." Nearly all army medics and Doctors when not on tour work within the NHS. Brother in law was a Army Doc for 23 yrs and worked in A&E when not touring in the local hospital where ever he was posted to in the UK. | |||
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" ...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
I think what you're saying is that the effect I've described has already killed a lot of people! Can we agree that when it's all over the Govt policy will have resulted in far more life lost than saved? Notice I said life, not lives, as in a cancer sufferer who goes terminal for lack of care may easily lose 70 years, few C19 victims will loss anywhere near that, the vast majority under 5."I didn’t want to lose 5 minutes with the people I know who have died | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’ "Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year. You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu. | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
"Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health 15/12/20 “With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.” This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000. Why don’t you look at facts for a change? | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health
15/12/20
“With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.”
This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000.
Why don’t you look at facts for a change?"Why don't you. The facts are given by the government.. This is wrong and entirely scaremongering. If you are involved in an fatal accident but tested positive within 28 days of the fatality, it's put down as Covid. The figures released are 14% higher which means excess deaths this year than last year. Once Covid is put on a death certificate, there us no post mortem to assess the real cause of death. Ok, so where are the total amount of deaths then INCLUDING Covid related? | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health
15/12/20
“With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.”
This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000.
Why don’t you look at facts for a change?"Plus, the AVERAGE age for all deaths in the country is 82.4 years old. Last year it was 81.6 years old. So even during the pandemic, people are living longer | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health
15/12/20
“With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.”
This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000.
Why don’t you look at facts for a change?"FACTS FROM THE ONS The coronavirus (COVID-19) was the leading cause of death in November 2020 for the first time since May 2020 in both England (accounting for 18.1% of all deaths registered in November) and Wales (21.6% of all deaths); looking at all deaths registered in January to November 2020, COVID-19 was the second most common cause of death in England and Wales (after dementia and Alzheimer's disease) | |||
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"My clinics got cancelled. Patients ready Room ready Equipment ready Admin ready Cancelled from higher up bodies than my manager.. we still dont know. I've offered to do extra.. still nothing" Ginny I wish you luck getting the vaccines rolled out as soon as possible thank you for what you are willing to do we need more people like you xxx | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health
15/12/20
“With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.”
This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000.
Why don’t you look at facts for a change?
Why don't you. The facts are given by the government..
This is wrong and entirely scaremongering.
If you are involved in an fatal accident but tested positive within 28 days of the fatality, it's put down as Covid.
The figures released are 14% higher which means excess deaths this year than last year.
Once Covid is put on a death certificate, there us no post mortem to assess the real cause of death.
Ok, so where are the total amount of deaths then INCLUDING Covid related?
"You do understandvthat excess deaths means above the 5 year average of deaths. It isirrelevant whether Covid was on the death certificate or not. More people died. A lot more people died and even more are losing their lives daily. What are you actually disputing? | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health
15/12/20
“With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.”
This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000.
Why don’t you look at facts for a change?
Why don't you. The facts are given by the government..
This is wrong and entirely scaremongering.
If you are involved in an fatal accident but tested positive within 28 days of the fatality, it's put down as Covid.
The figures released are 14% higher which means excess deaths this year than last year.
Once Covid is put on a death certificate, there us no post mortem to assess the real cause of death.
Ok, so where are the total amount of deaths then INCLUDING Covid related?
You do understandvthat excess deaths means above the 5 year average of deaths. It isirrelevant whether Covid was on the death certificate or not. More people died. A lot more people died and even more are losing their lives daily. What are you actually disputing?"I'm disputing that your saying it's 75,000 excess deaths when it clearly isn't. Don't forget, flu deaths are now included in the Covid figures | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health
15/12/20
“With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.”
This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000.
Why don’t you look at facts for a change?
Why don't you. The facts are given by the government..
This is wrong and entirely scaremongering.
If you are involved in an fatal accident but tested positive within 28 days of the fatality, it's put down as Covid.
The figures released are 14% higher which means excess deaths this year than last year.
Once Covid is put on a death certificate, there us no post mortem to assess the real cause of death.
Ok, so where are the total amount of deaths then INCLUDING Covid related?
You do understandvthat excess deaths means above the 5 year average of deaths. It isirrelevant whether Covid was on the death certificate or not. More people died. A lot more people died and even more are losing their lives daily. What are you actually disputing?
I'm disputing that your saying it's 75,000 excess deaths when it clearly isn't.
Don't forget, flu deaths are now included in the Covid figures "They could all be deaths from TseTse flies, but they are still in excess of 75,000 over the average from the last 5 years. How many additional Flu deaths have their been over a normal year? | |||
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"With 12 months to prepare, it is yet another cock up by the Govt. People are losing their lives because some idiots cannot plan ahead
No people are loosing their lives because idiots can’t stick to the guidelines. Exactly.
Seconded
People who are led by Donkeys who cannot even stick to the same story from one day to another are losing patience.
The Govt support of Cummings was a nail in the coffin (literally) for people supporting the Govt. Their abject failure to plan, to have a comprehensive idea of how to co-ordinate what their left and right hands were doing has led to 75,000 plus deaths.
Of course people have to take individual responsibility and do the right thing - however, those who claim to be Leaders are the one’s with blood on their hands...
Well said! It's been known from the start who's vulnerable and that there's almost zero risk to those not on that list. The ONS data is available to all and you don't need to be a pro analyst to work out what it's saying. Instead of saying have Xmas with your family the Govt should have been saying don't go anywhere near your rellies if they're over 80 or in poor health!
However, it's a bit disingenuous to lay 75000 deaths at the hands of the Govt - a large proportion of them would have died anyway. The overall death rate for 2020 is not that much higher than usual, remember the C19 deaths were only people who had it, not necessarily people who died of it. Unfortunately looking forward the Govt will have much more blood on their hands as all those who've not been treated in time for otherwise non-life threatening conditions start to die. Potentially many thousands may die for this reason, the majority of whom will have had almost zero susceptibility to C19 and will leave dependents, which MOST C19 victims do not.
If you think something else may be wrong then please seek help from the NHS, don't become a victim of paranoia.
...there are 75,000 excess deaths since the end of March 20. Excess means more than normal. Of course they would all die sometime, we all will. But they lost precious hours, days, months or years directly due to the incompetency of this Govt and its failure to consider the Pandemic Simulation done, to have the right stocks of PPE, to have enough ventilators, to recognise quickly enough that ‘herd immunity’ wouldn’t work until enough people caught the virus and many more would have died. When you look back at what a mess they’ve made of it, it makes you wonder why we keep letting them have another go. This is ‘Corporate Manslaughter’
Totally wrong. The death rate this year is about 14% higher than a normal year.
You're taking the total number of deaths recorded for people who have died WITH Covid not because of Covid. You are over dramatising the rate. Your figures are pure scaremongering. It is NOT 75,000 EXCESS deaths at all and the figures now including flu.
Kingsfund.org.uk - charitable org working in improving health
15/12/20
“With more than 71,000 excess deaths in England and Wales since the Covid-19 pandemic began, the death statistics for this year are truly sobering. If current trends continue, the total excess death toll for 2020 could exceed 80,000, very likely leading to a significant fall in life expectancy in 2020.”
This was for England & Wales, add in Scotland and Northern Ireland and roll it forward to, lets say Monday 4/1/21 and you can see the number is well in excess of 75,000.
Why don’t you look at facts for a change?
Why don't you. The facts are given by the government..
This is wrong and entirely scaremongering.
If you are involved in an fatal accident but tested positive within 28 days of the fatality, it's put down as Covid.
The figures released are 14% higher which means excess deaths this year than last year.
Once Covid is put on a death certificate, there us no post mortem to assess the real cause of death.
Ok, so where are the total amount of deaths then INCLUDING Covid related?
You do understandvthat excess deaths means above the 5 year average of deaths. It isirrelevant whether Covid was on the death certificate or not. More people died. A lot more people died and even more are losing their lives daily. What are you actually disputing?
I'm disputing that your saying it's 75,000 excess deaths when it clearly isn't.
Don't forget, flu deaths are now included in the Covid figures
They could all be deaths from TseTse flies, but they are still in excess of 75,000 over the average from the last 5 years.
How many additional Flu deaths have their been over a normal year?"Oh dear me.. How many Tse Tse flies do you see in England. Look the numbers up yourself. I told you the EXCESS deaths this year including Covid is 18% or do you now doubt the ONS? | |||
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"Exactly, the flu deaths would be included in the previous figures, so it is still excess deaths, that is the point. The clue is in the name." How is flu excess.. Excess is over an above what is expected. Flu deaths are expected | |||
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"Exactly, the flu deaths would be included in the previous figures, so it is still excess deaths, that is the point. The clue is in the name. How is flu excess.. Excess is over an above what is expected. Flu deaths are expected " There's a fundamental misunderstanding here. Ok - in 2019, ALL deaths from all causes (including flu) did not include any Covid related deaths, because it hadn't made it over here. So, if we use all the deaths from all causes in 2019 (and the 4yrs prior to that too, for the 5yr average) as the baseline, what we see is a large number (around 65,000 - 70,000) of deaths ABOVE the 5yr average. The fairly reasonable assumption is that the deaths are above the 5yr average by 65,000 - 70,000 due to the impact of Covid. Not every single one of the deaths will be directly due to Covid - some of the excess will be things like Covid exacerbating another condition and the person dies of that. People who had medical emergencies at home and decided not to go to A&E out of fear. People who had medical treatment cancelled due to the pressures of Covid on the NHS. The common denominator in all that is Covid. If Covid wasn't an issue, that man might well have sought earlier treatment when he had chest pains and that implanted defibrillator day surgery might have taken place. Excess deaths at the moment are Covid related. | |||
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"Exactly, the flu deaths would be included in the previous figures, so it is still excess deaths, that is the point. The clue is in the name. How is flu excess.. Excess is over an above what is expected. Flu deaths are expected " I did not word that well, I meant the previous years figures would include flu, as would this years...the rest is excess. | |||
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"Exactly, the flu deaths would be included in the previous figures, so it is still excess deaths, that is the point. The clue is in the name. How is flu excess.. Excess is over an above what is expected. Flu deaths are expected There's a fundamental misunderstanding here. Ok - in 2019, ALL deaths from all causes (including flu) did not include any Covid related deaths, because it hadn't made it over here. So, if we use all the deaths from all causes in 2019 (and the 4yrs prior to that too, for the 5yr average) as the baseline, what we see is a large number (around 65,000 - 70,000) of deaths ABOVE the 5yr average. The fairly reasonable assumption is that the deaths are above the 5yr average by 65,000 - 70,000 due to the impact of Covid. Not every single one of the deaths will be directly due to Covid - some of the excess will be things like Covid exacerbating another condition and the person dies of that. People who had medical emergencies at home and decided not to go to A&E out of fear. People who had medical treatment cancelled due to the pressures of Covid on the NHS. The common denominator in all that is Covid. If Covid wasn't an issue, that man might well have sought earlier treatment when he had chest pains and that implanted defibrillator day surgery might have taken place. Excess deaths at the moment are Covid related." Thank you | |||
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"Exactly, the flu deaths would be included in the previous figures, so it is still excess deaths, that is the point. The clue is in the name. How is flu excess.. Excess is over an above what is expected. Flu deaths are expected There's a fundamental misunderstanding here. Ok - in 2019, ALL deaths from all causes (including flu) did not include any Covid related deaths, because it hadn't made it over here. So, if we use all the deaths from all causes in 2019 (and the 4yrs prior to that too, for the 5yr average) as the baseline, what we see is a large number (around 65,000 - 70,000) of deaths ABOVE the 5yr average. The fairly reasonable assumption is that the deaths are above the 5yr average by 65,000 - 70,000 due to the impact of Covid. Not every single one of the deaths will be directly due to Covid - some of the excess will be things like Covid exacerbating another condition and the person dies of that. People who had medical emergencies at home and decided not to go to A&E out of fear. People who had medical treatment cancelled due to the pressures of Covid on the NHS. The common denominator in all that is Covid. If Covid wasn't an issue, that man might well have sought earlier treatment when he had chest pains and that implanted defibrillator day surgery might have taken place. Excess deaths at the moment are Covid related." Theres only been 77000 and that includes any deaths that have been tested positive in the last 28 days and now INCLUDES flu | |||
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"Exactly, the flu deaths would be included in the previous figures, so it is still excess deaths, that is the point. The clue is in the name. How is flu excess.. Excess is over an above what is expected. Flu deaths are expected I did not word that well, I meant the previous years figures would include flu, as would this years...the rest is excess." So as published by the ONS, 18.1% higher. | |||
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""Boris is so fucking stupid, he caught the fucking virus" Ah so now one has to be stupid to catch the virus. That's a new take on how people who caught the virus are seen. I feel it definitely holds true for politicians, it's the ones who are stupid and recklessly bend the rules they themselves create who've come down with Covid- Trump, Johnson, Macron to name a few. We have more sensible ones like Biden or Sturgeon who've stayed safe. So what you're saying is that 383,000 + people who contracted the virus last week are stupid and reckless? Obviously the ones who don't catch it are really clever and not reckless? Are the people more stupid and reckless with this new strain because the numbers are increasing " i think this is one of those cases where one logic doesn’t necessarily follow from the other boris did catch it because he was stupid... he was going round shaking hands with infected people when the advice is to distance however that doesn’t mean that other people catching it as stupid or that people who don’t are smart ... we can all be as careful or as dumb as we like ... its partially a numbers game that might be down to luck ... the one time out of 100 you touched a surface and did wash your hands could be the one you pick it up ... alanis morrisette will tell you all about it | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14. Why is it silly? I agree that 9am to 8pm might work for the elderly, but it could be 7 days a week. In addition, the other available time could be used for essential staff. We should be pushing as hard as we can to get people vacvinated, I just don’t feel that this has been given the emphasis and push that it needs. Trust me its silly This might be why we don’t get things done! It is silly not to even try...
Really ? In many areas they cannot recruit registered staff. Volenteers are ok but, they need someone who can administer adrenaline if required post vaccination. Usual nhs work continues - who do you think can do this ?
This Government and, people need to be realistic.
Primary care has an ageing clinical population. For many doing 12hr shifts, or any extra shifts is impossible due to their health. You try standing in the freezing cold administering a medication that needs to be drawn up and mixed (not shaken). People are doing their best."why do they need to stand in the freezing cold? i thought it only needed stored at the low temp until distributed and then the shelf life would be 5 days in a standard vaccine fridge?? is that fake news ive picked up  | |||
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"Exactly, the flu deaths would be included in the previous figures, so it is still excess deaths, that is the point. The clue is in the name. How is flu excess.. Excess is over an above what is expected. Flu deaths are expected There's a fundamental misunderstanding here. Ok - in 2019, ALL deaths from all causes (including flu) did not include any Covid related deaths, because it hadn't made it over here. So, if we use all the deaths from all causes in 2019 (and the 4yrs prior to that too, for the 5yr average) as the baseline, what we see is a large number (around 65,000 - 70,000) of deaths ABOVE the 5yr average. The fairly reasonable assumption is that the deaths are above the 5yr average by 65,000 - 70,000 due to the impact of Covid. Not every single one of the deaths will be directly due to Covid - some of the excess will be things like Covid exacerbating another condition and the person dies of that. People who had medical emergencies at home and decided not to go to A&E out of fear. People who had medical treatment cancelled due to the pressures of Covid on the NHS. The common denominator in all that is Covid. If Covid wasn't an issue, that man might well have sought earlier treatment when he had chest pains and that implanted defibrillator day surgery might have taken place. Excess deaths at the moment are Covid related. Theres only been 77000 and that includes any deaths that have been tested positive in the last 28 days and now INCLUDES flu" ONLY 77,000! If you go onto the ONS site you can see all the things people die from and they are many and varied. Lets be clear, every year has flu deaths. The past year has not had excess flue deaths, nor has it had excess falling off a ladder deaths. It has had 77,000 (plus) EXCESS DEATHS. Some can clearly be attributed to Covid as the details are clear. In terms of what the others are, I would put my house on them being related to Covid. What do you think is causing the 77,000 spike in deaths? | |||
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"Create an App, I accept many 80 plus people are not so tech savvy, but it would allow much faster input of data, validation, central data repository etc & would avoid double keying. The non medical bit of this must be 80% at least. I do not doubt that people are doing their best, I just doubt that this has been thought through properly. Use the technology (avoiding Dido & spreadsheets of course ), use big tech company’s (not Serco!) - I mean they have had a year to think about a Vaccination Programme, it didn’t just come as a surprise gift on Xmas Eve... "this bit i totally agree with ... from reading peoples experience most of the pre jab part is admin, and most pf that data doesn’t need to be gathered or updated by medically trained staff , its wasted precious resource ... dats gatherers could be recruited and trained much quicker, an app or standard inout form is a great idea, it would highlight comments for concern that nurses might need to questions about in person but all the “no issues” tick box people could go straight to the jab step after their paperwork and it would allow the trained vaccinators to reach more people | |||
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"It’s also great to see that someone in Govt is on Fab as they are going to adopt 24/7 vaccine rollout - not so silly now "I'll believe it when I see it, some areas haven't got community nursing overnight ! | |||
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"It’s also great to see that someone in Govt is on Fab as they are going to adopt 24/7 vaccine rollout - not so silly now
I'll believe it when I see it, some areas haven't got community nursing overnight !"I know they will cock it up (not the community nurses!), but if we were serious about doing this you would set up a 24/7 solution. Not every site needs to be 24/7, but you would use Pharmacies, GP Surgeries, Supermarkets, Etc. It is perfectly doable, it just needs a bit of lateral thinking - sadly absent in the Govt | |||
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"24/7 vaccines is a really silly idea,how do frail 75 year olds get to testing stations at say 3.00 in the morning wait in the cold etc. They will die of pnumonia instead of covid. Ok at least 12 hours a day maybe 14." Why silly? It's not just over 75s who have got to have it. It's the entire population or a good 80%. I'd be quite happy to pop along at 3am if that's what it takes. Even my dad said he'd be happy to and he's 91. Its probably impractical for the average gp surgery but there's nothing to stop major centres being set up for it open 24/7 in major centres. Spent enough on Nightingale hospitals. Use them and if necessary the military to staff them. Israel have already vaccinated more than the UK, despite the UK being first to approve the vaccines. Let's not have the World Class Track and Trace fiasco all over again. | |||
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