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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?)" That's my evening sorted then  | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it?"  | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it?" As it is the politicians that are governing how we deal with covid-19 the two are inextricably linked. The politics and virus forums have been deliberately separated and the political discussion about covid-19 belongs in the virus thread. Are you saying that I/we shouldn`t be discussing the governments handling of it? | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it? As it is the politicians that are governing how we deal with covid-19 the two are inextricably linked. The politics and virus forums have been deliberately separated and the political discussion about covid-19 belongs in the virus thread. Are you saying that I/we shouldn`t be discussing the governments handling of it? " What precedent is there to measure the governments response to covid19 | |||
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"It’s because it suits them to ignore it. For some people of the government gave them a million pound they’d want two. Leave them be to their miserable lives. " It astounds me how narrow sighted/agenda driven/selfish some people are. | |||
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""Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing?" Because they are both uninformed and scared O.P. and some vulnerable folk feel they are doing good by highlighting what they make no effort to prove." FTFY You are right, some people are scared and looking for someone to blame. Some however are just using the situation for political point scoring and/or being deliberately obtuse. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?)" I followed that thread and it seemed to me that the forumite was pointing out that "building a hospital" and making a makeshift hospital out of another building isn't the same thing. Some countries aren't needing to "build new hospitals" because they imposed restrictions as soon as the virus hit Italy instead of initially embarking on a strategy of herd immunity. This isn't political any more than the story of the emperor's new clothes is an attack on monarchy. It's simply a case of not hero worshipping people for helping to clear up a mess they created in the first place. People can accuse people who criticise the decisions that were made as "politicising", but the only excuse I can find for overlooking all these blunders and seeing everything they do through rose coloured glasses is political bias going the other way. | |||
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"I think you make a very valid and very well thought out point - I have been working part time for the NHS for over a year now but in the last 6 weeks I have gone from Out of Hours Doctors Driver, to receptionist, to Ambulance driver and now, sadly, to hearse driver. Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. In a "normal" A&E department, in a 12 hour shift, 1 nurse will typically go through 50 pairs of gloves, 10 aprons, and maybe 1 mask(sometimes) - now, those numbers are 100, 80 and 20 respectively. I am not in to politics, I don't have any views either way about conservatives, labour or liberals. Whoever is in government is always going to get a hard time under circumstances like this - its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there " I think you'll find that the government had plenty of warning, from as far back as 2016, what the possible consequences of such a pandemic would be, but chose to ignore it because it was too costly and because they were complacent. I'm not saying any other government would have done things any differently, because they probably wouldn't, but they were warned and didn't heed the warning and now here we are, it's happened. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?)" Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it? As it is the politicians that are governing how we deal with covid-19 the two are inextricably linked. The politics and virus forums have been deliberately separated and the political discussion about covid-19 belongs in the virus thread. Are you saying that I/we shouldn`t be discussing the governments handling of it? What precedent is there to measure the governments response to covid19" For someone that just thumbed up a post criticizing talking politics, you sure are getting political. Some would say the precident is the example set by germany/other countries, others would say it is the scientific method that has been previously considered appropriate for dealing with other outbreaks. Others say there is none as it is unique. Neither have any relevance to the questions I asked though. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! " Keep drinking the kool aid. | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it? As it is the politicians that are governing how we deal with covid-19 the two are inextricably linked. The politics and virus forums have been deliberately separated and the political discussion about covid-19 belongs in the virus thread. Are you saying that I/we shouldn`t be discussing the governments handling of it? What precedent is there to measure the governments response to covid19 For someone that just thumbed up a post criticizing talking politics, you sure are getting political. Some would say the precident is the example set by germany/other countries, others would say it is the scientific method that has been previously considered appropriate for dealing with other outbreaks. Others say there is none as it is unique. Neither have any relevance to the questions I asked though." Sorry I pressed the thumbs up by mistake. It is political.Ive no issue about that. | |||
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"I think you make a very valid and very well thought out point - I have been working part time for the NHS for over a year now but in the last 6 weeks I have gone from Out of Hours Doctors Driver, to receptionist, to Ambulance driver and now, sadly, to hearse driver. Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. In a "normal" A&E department, in a 12 hour shift, 1 nurse will typically go through 50 pairs of gloves, 10 aprons, and maybe 1 mask(sometimes) - now, those numbers are 100, 80 and 20 respectively. I am not in to politics, I don't have any views either way about conservatives, labour or liberals. Whoever is in government is always going to get a hard time under circumstances like this - its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there I think you'll find that the government had plenty of warning, from as far back as 2016, what the possible consequences of such a pandemic would be, but chose to ignore it because it was too costly and because they were complacent. I'm not saying any other government would have done things any differently, because they probably wouldn't, but they were warned and didn't heed the warning and now here we are, it's happened." Yes I accept that warnings can be given and action is not taken - but bear in mind that things like PPE (believe it or not) actually has a use-by date on it, the sterility of such items can only be assured for a fairly short window of time. If the government had stock-piled everything in 2016, non of that kit would be available today, and the government would surely be criticised for wasting millions that way instead. One of the reasons that the NHS has lasted as long as it has (bearing in mind that no other country in the world has a social healthcare system anything like as comprehensive as the NHS) is that they have learnt to "lean out" their stockpiling and use a system adapted from the car manufacturing world called "Kanban" where thing are brought in on a demand basis - that model has saved the NHS millions over the years. The down side of that system is that when unprecedent demands are placed on it, it becomes difficult for the whole supply chain to ramp up fast enough to meet the demands | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! " Wow.just wow | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) I followed that thread and it seemed to me that the forumite was pointing out that "building a hospital" and making a makeshift hospital out of another building isn't the same thing. Some countries aren't needing to "build new hospitals" because they imposed restrictions as soon as the virus hit Italy instead of initially embarking on a strategy of herd immunity. This isn't political any more than the story of the emperor's new clothes is an attack on monarchy. It's simply a case of not hero worshipping people for helping to clear up a mess they created in the first place. People can accuse people who criticise the decisions that were made as "politicising", but the only excuse I can find for overlooking all these blunders and seeing everything they do through rose coloured glasses is political bias going the other way." You didn't just follow it, you were one of the main naysayers. As usual you twist things to suit your narrative, I said the government are building hospital WARDS. As for overlooking blunders, you don't know what is and isn't a blunder. That will be decided once it is all over. Another thing, I am not hero worshipping however you are vilifying them using nothing more than your opinion and a few cherry picked soundbites as justification. | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it? As it is the politicians that are governing how we deal with covid-19 the two are inextricably linked. The politics and virus forums have been deliberately separated and the political discussion about covid-19 belongs in the virus thread. Are you saying that I/we shouldn`t be discussing the governments handling of it? What precedent is there to measure the governments response to covid19 For someone that just thumbed up a post criticizing talking politics, you sure are getting political. Some would say the precident is the example set by germany/other countries, others would say it is the scientific method that has been previously considered appropriate for dealing with other outbreaks. Others say there is none as it is unique. Neither have any relevance to the questions I asked though." So which precident are you using to measure the response? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?)" I'd just like to point out that perhaps it's my fault Lionel jumped onto the fact the London Nightingale hospital was NOT built from scratch and the govt was wrong to suggest it was, ie terminology. However, it is a great investment/project etc. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! " Wow..  | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) I followed that thread and it seemed to me that the forumite was pointing out that "building a hospital" and making a makeshift hospital out of another building isn't the same thing. Some countries aren't needing to "build new hospitals" because they imposed restrictions as soon as the virus hit Italy instead of initially embarking on a strategy of herd immunity. This isn't political any more than the story of the emperor's new clothes is an attack on monarchy. It's simply a case of not hero worshipping people for helping to clear up a mess they created in the first place. People can accuse people who criticise the decisions that were made as "politicising", but the only excuse I can find for overlooking all these blunders and seeing everything they do through rose coloured glasses is political bias going the other way. You didn't just follow it, you were one of the main naysayers. As usual you twist things to suit your narrative, I said the government are building hospital WARDS. As for overlooking blunders, you don't know what is and isn't a blunder. That will be decided once it is all over. Another thing, I am not hero worshipping however you are vilifying them using nothing more than your opinion and a few cherry picked soundbites as justification. " Twist what exactly? Several sources from drs,nurses,medical union=cherrpicking?ok. The fact that you soneone can come on here and actually blame the nhs and you dont say a word says it all really | |||
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"I think you make a very valid and very well thought out point - I have been working part time for the NHS for over a year now but in the last 6 weeks I have gone from Out of Hours Doctors Driver, to receptionist, to Ambulance driver and now, sadly, to hearse driver. Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. In a "normal" A&E department, in a 12 hour shift, 1 nurse will typically go through 50 pairs of gloves, 10 aprons, and maybe 1 mask(sometimes) - now, those numbers are 100, 80 and 20 respectively. I am not in to politics, I don't have any views either way about conservatives, labour or liberals. Whoever is in government is always going to get a hard time under circumstances like this - its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there " Re parent - and you're never right anyway (until they grow up ). | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) I'd just like to point out that perhaps it's my fault Lionel jumped onto the fact the London Nightingale hospital was NOT built from scratch and the govt was wrong to suggest it was, ie terminology. However, it is a great investment/project etc. " I was gonna blame you 
I initially did think it was built from scratch
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! Wow.. "You just cant argue with that can you? | |||
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"I think you make a very valid and very well thought out point - I have been working part time for the NHS for over a year now but in the last 6 weeks I have gone from Out of Hours Doctors Driver, to receptionist, to Ambulance driver and now, sadly, to hearse driver. Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. In a "normal" A&E department, in a 12 hour shift, 1 nurse will typically go through 50 pairs of gloves, 10 aprons, and maybe 1 mask(sometimes) - now, those numbers are 100, 80 and 20 respectively. I am not in to politics, I don't have any views either way about conservatives, labour or liberals. Whoever is in government is always going to get a hard time under circumstances like this - its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there " Heart warming post here and telling us how it is. Thank you for giving us a true picture of what it's like without going into the politics of it. As you say no one could have predicted this. If we have any conscience we need to stop carping, do our bit if we can and get on with it. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! Wow.. "To clarify I think under the circumstances they are trying to deal with something totally unprecedented, I don't for a minute think they don't care and that would be the same if Labour were in power.. And mistakes are often made by governments be they Tory, coalition or Labour that is just the way things go.. With that thing called hindsight there will at some point be a reckoning politically of course there will and there will be phrases we've heard before such as 'lessons have been learned etc'.. My wow comment is purely at the sheer head in the sand la la I won't accept the reality of this issue is a bit bigger than just pointing the finger at NHS bosses.. What next? Blame those sadly dying of the virus? | |||
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"I think you make a very valid and very well thought out point - I have been working part time for the NHS for over a year now but in the last 6 weeks I have gone from Out of Hours Doctors Driver, to receptionist, to Ambulance driver and now, sadly, to hearse driver. Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. In a "normal" A&E department, in a 12 hour shift, 1 nurse will typically go through 50 pairs of gloves, 10 aprons, and maybe 1 mask(sometimes) - now, those numbers are 100, 80 and 20 respectively. I am not in to politics, I don't have any views either way about conservatives, labour or liberals. Whoever is in government is always going to get a hard time under circumstances like this - its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there Heart warming post here and telling us how it is. Thank you for giving us a true picture of what it's like without going into the politics of it. As you say no one could have predicted this. If we have any conscience we need to stop carping, do our bit if we can and get on with it." | |||
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"Here's the problem. Had the COVID-19 crisis first appeared on our shores. Then yes. These arguments would hold water. But no. The virus first showed up in China. China showed us first what to do wrong and then what to do right. We could have learned from their mistakes but instead we went down the same path they did. We are the Homer Simpsons of COVID-19 response. People are angry. And so they should be. People have died needlessly because of the path we have taken. You have a right to be angry when someone you love dies needlessly. To say this anger is politically motivated is an insult to those that have died. It's about accountability. No one is immune from accountability not even politicians. " Are you trying to say that every death has been avoidable? | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! Wow..
To clarify I think under the circumstances they are trying to deal with something totally unprecedented, I don't for a minute think they don't care and that would be the same if Labour were in power..
And mistakes are often made by governments be they Tory, coalition or Labour that is just the way things go..
With that thing called hindsight there will at some point be a reckoning politically of course there will and there will be phrases we've heard before such as 'lessons have been learned etc'..
My wow comment is purely at the sheer head in the sand la la I won't accept the reality of this issue is a bit bigger than just pointing the finger at NHS bosses..
What next?
Blame those sadly dying of the virus?
"Too late..someone did that the other day. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020" Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) I'd just like to point out that perhaps it's my fault Lionel jumped onto the fact the London Nightingale hospital was NOT built from scratch and the govt was wrong to suggest it was, ie terminology. However, it is a great investment/project etc. I was gonna blame you
I initially did think it was built from scratch
"I can take it  . | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat" No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real | |||
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"I just hope the government are tougher on long term unemployed after this. We will be paying for years for this and so should they. " I feel sure they will, and they’ll have the support of the majority too. Working people have had their fill of lounging about watching daytime tv and waiting for free money to arrive. They will have a lot more understanding of unemployment now... | |||
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"I think you make a very valid and very well thought out point - I have been working part time for the NHS for over a year now but in the last 6 weeks I have gone from Out of Hours Doctors Driver, to receptionist, to Ambulance driver and now, sadly, to hearse driver. Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. In a "normal" A&E department, in a 12 hour shift, 1 nurse will typically go through 50 pairs of gloves, 10 aprons, and maybe 1 mask(sometimes) - now, those numbers are 100, 80 and 20 respectively. I am not in to politics, I don't have any views either way about conservatives, labour or liberals. Whoever is in government is always going to get a hard time under circumstances like this - its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there I think you'll find that the government had plenty of warning, from as far back as 2016, what the possible consequences of such a pandemic would be, but chose to ignore it because it was too costly and because they were complacent. I'm not saying any other government would have done things any differently, because they probably wouldn't, but they were warned and didn't heed the warning and now here we are, it's happened. Yes I accept that warnings can be given and action is not taken - but bear in mind that things like PPE (believe it or not) actually has a use-by date on it, the sterility of such items can only be assured for a fairly short window of time. If the government had stock-piled everything in 2016, non of that kit would be available today, and the government would surely be criticised for wasting millions that way instead. One of the reasons that the NHS has lasted as long as it has (bearing in mind that no other country in the world has a social healthcare system anything like as comprehensive as the NHS) is that they have learnt to "lean out" their stockpiling and use a system adapted from the car manufacturing world called "Kanban" where thing are brought in on a demand basis - that model has saved the NHS millions over the years. The down side of that system is that when unprecedent demands are placed on it, it becomes difficult for the whole supply chain to ramp up fast enough to meet the demands " You do make some valid points, and I'm not going to totally pile in on the government because most of the actions they have taken since this became a major issue have been reasonably commendable. However...They did have information available to them about the consequences of a pandemic, and were far too slow in implementing the procedures that could have mitigated the spread of the virus. If they had reacted with more haste they could probably have obtained the ventilators and PPE required too. They're not alone though, because most of the worlds governments were caught on the hop too. There will undoubtedly be a public enquiry into this pandemic once it's over and done with, and I don't think that the government will come out of it very favourably, whatever anyone's opinion is now. Let's hope that the lessons learned from this are not ignored by any future government. | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real "Erm 2 posters have already pointed the blame and the unemployed | |||
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"I just hope the government are tougher on long term unemployed after this. We will be paying for years for this and so should they. I feel sure they will, and they’ll have the support of the majority too. Working people have had their fill of lounging about watching daytime tv and waiting for free money to arrive. They will have a lot more understanding of unemployment now..." You should get a job at the mail. Sounds just like your niche | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. " I'm sure I just heard Matt state there is enough PPE but acknowledges we need more, and to follow new guidance recently issued. There has, however, been a logistics issue. | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it? As it is the politicians that are governing how we deal with covid-19 the two are inextricably linked. The politics and virus forums have been deliberately separated and the political discussion about covid-19 belongs in the virus thread. Are you saying that I/we shouldn`t be discussing the governments handling of it? What precedent is there to measure the governments response to covid19 For someone that just thumbed up a post criticizing talking politics, you sure are getting political. Some would say the precident is the example set by germany/other countries, others would say it is the scientific method that has been previously considered appropriate for dealing with other outbreaks. Others say there is none as it is unique. Neither have any relevance to the questions I asked though. So which precident are you using to measure the response?" None of them. I am using the principle that they are doing what they think is right and going all out to deliver it. Rather than the one where its claimed they don't care and are doing nothing. | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real
Erm 2 posters have already pointed the blame and the unemployed
"But they never mentioned the eu or immigrants. | |||
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"Here's the problem. Had the COVID-19 crisis first appeared on our shores. Then yes. These arguments would hold water. But no. The virus first showed up in China. China showed us first what to do wrong and then what to do right. We could have learned from their mistakes but instead we went down the same path they did. We are the Homer Simpsons of COVID-19 response. People are angry. And so they should be. People have died needlessly because of the path we have taken. You have a right to be angry when someone you love dies needlessly. To say this anger is politically motivated is an insult to those that have died. It's about accountability. No one is immune from accountability not even politicians. Are you trying to say that every death has been avoidable? " Absolutely not! | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. " The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. | |||
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"For me a lot of the posts have veered away from being about Covid19 as their main focus and purely an extension of the political forum. This thread isn’t much different is it? As it is the politicians that are governing how we deal with covid-19 the two are inextricably linked. The politics and virus forums have been deliberately separated and the political discussion about covid-19 belongs in the virus thread. Are you saying that I/we shouldn`t be discussing the governments handling of it? What precedent is there to measure the governments response to covid19 For someone that just thumbed up a post criticizing talking politics, you sure are getting political. Some would say the precident is the example set by germany/other countries, others would say it is the scientific method that has been previously considered appropriate for dealing with other outbreaks. Others say there is none as it is unique. Neither have any relevance to the questions I asked though. So which precident are you using to measure the response? None of them. I am using the principle that they are doing what they think is right and going all out to deliver it. Rather than the one where its claimed they don't care and are doing nothing." That’s a thumbs up | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real
Erm 2 posters have already pointed the blame and the unemployed
But they never mentioned the eu or immigrants."It's called scapegoating When there is an issue people look for someone to blame..in the past it's been immigrants..or the eu. Today's winners are the unemployed. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) I'd just like to point out that perhaps it's my fault Lionel jumped onto the fact the London Nightingale hospital was NOT built from scratch and the govt was wrong to suggest it was, ie terminology. However, it is a great investment/project etc. " Its not your fault that lionel tried to make out that I said they where building a complete hospital, when infact I said they where building a ward. Aside from that it is irrelevant that the walls aready existed, there is a lot more to a hospital than walls and furthermore, converting an existing building into something else is still classed as building. The overarching point I make is that some people try to win on technicalities, they care more about a personal victory than the truth. | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real
Erm 2 posters have already pointed the blame and the unemployed
But they never mentioned the eu or immigrants.
It's called scapegoating
When there is an issue people look for someone to blame..in the past it's been immigrants..or the eu.
Today's winners are the unemployed."Just like you trying to blame the government...? | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real
Erm 2 posters have already pointed the blame and the unemployed
But they never mentioned the eu or immigrants.
It's called scapegoating
When there is an issue people look for someone to blame..in the past it's been immigrants..or the eu.
Today's winners are the unemployed."Please point out where the unemployed have been scapegoated on this thread because I can’t see it. While we’re at it though, you’re happy to blame the government for everything | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real
Erm 2 posters have already pointed the blame and the unemployed
But they never mentioned the eu or immigrants.
It's called scapegoating
When there is an issue people look for someone to blame..in the past it's been immigrants..or the eu.
Today's winners are the unemployed.
Just like you trying to blame the government...?"Seriously? I have the audacity to question the people who are meant to be handing the crises? | |||
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"Immigrants..benefit claimants..The eu..the unemployed..where would vindictive tories be without a scapegoat No one mentioned immigrants or the eu. Oh how the left love to tell us that the right always wanna blame others whilst firing off at the right. The irony is real
Erm 2 posters have already pointed the blame and the unemployed
But they never mentioned the eu or immigrants.
It's called scapegoating
When there is an issue people look for someone to blame..in the past it's been immigrants..or the eu.
Today's winners are the unemployed.
Please point out where the unemployed have been scapegoated on this thread because I can’t see it.
While we’re at it though, you’re happy to blame the government for everything "Why are the unemployed relevant to this issue? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. " No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. " Just cant help yourselves can you? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you?" I should be saying the same to you.... | |||
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"Here's the problem. Had the COVID-19 crisis first appeared on our shores. Then yes. These arguments would hold water. But no. The virus first showed up in China. China showed us first what to do wrong and then what to do right. We could have learned from their mistakes but instead we went down the same path they did. We are the Homer Simpsons of COVID-19 response. People are angry. And so they should be. People have died needlessly because of the path we have taken. You have a right to be angry when someone you love dies needlessly. To say this anger is politically motivated is an insult to those that have died. It's about accountability. No one is immune from accountability not even politicians. Are you trying to say that every death has been avoidable? Absolutely not!" Good! | |||
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"I think government doing there best it’s unprecedented the scale of task Think we should look at what they have achieved so far and the speed Not perfect but by god they trying the problem is intelligent people think because u want it it can happen INSTANTLY every thing takes time but sadly we need it yesterday And also everybody all of a sudden expert and love nothing better than picking fault slagging off and criticising " Agreed, there have been mistakes made but now we need to concentrate on getting through this, then once it's dealt with, the actions of the people in charge can be reviewed. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you? I should be saying the same to you...." I'm.not throwing round unfounded insults because I dont share your blind faith. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. " The end of April is that target. | |||
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"I Would just like to say thanks to the favourable comments and the PM's that I have had this afternoon after posting my thoughts here. I am logging off soon - I have a 14 hour shift ahead of me, ferrying bodies from one hospital or mortuary to another. To me, its nothing to do with politics, I don't want to blame anyone - I will just be spending 14 hours in the company of the victims. Each of them was a life, was a story, not a statistic, not a number, at least not to me - if I can transport them with the dignity they deserve without going loopy myself in the process, then my job is done. Figuring out who to blame, doesn't make any difference to my passengers tonight. Stay Safe, look after each other. Goodnight " Thank you for the work you do | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you? I should be saying the same to you.... I'm.not throwing round unfounded insults because I dont share your blind faith." Did I hurt your feelings? Let me guess, I should shut up and stop pointing out your bullshit? | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. " We haven't run out of ventilators. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you? I should be saying the same to you.... I'm.not throwing round unfounded insults because I dont share your blind faith." And please do point out the `unfounded insults` | |||
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"I Would just like to say thanks to the favourable comments and the PM's that I have had this afternoon after posting my thoughts here. I am logging off soon - I have a 14 hour shift ahead of me, ferrying bodies from one hospital or mortuary to another. To me, its nothing to do with politics, I don't want to blame anyone - I will just be spending 14 hours in the company of the victims. Each of them was a life, was a story, not a statistic, not a number, at least not to me - if I can transport them with the dignity they deserve without going loopy myself in the process, then my job is done. Figuring out who to blame, doesn't make any difference to my passengers tonight. Stay Safe, look after each other. Goodnight " I'm glad you have that view and not they're just cadavers. When viewing post mortems, that hit me the hardest. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you? I should be saying the same to you.... I'm.not throwing round unfounded insults because I dont share your blind faith. Did I hurt your feelings? Let me guess, I should shut up and stop pointing out your bullshit?" You did.Some stranger on an internet forum called me "uneducated,because I didnt agree with him. I feel broken inside | |||
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"I didn’t blame the unemployed. I said I hope the government are going to be tough on the long term unemployed. " The government need to be tough on employers. Forcing them to take on the required amount of staff required not short staffing and paying them minimum wages and forcing their workers to do the work of 3 people+. Take for example a factory that deals with fabric rolls for a variety of goods. used to employ over 80 people to work their antiquated machinery. Now only staffed by 20 these same antiquated in need of repair machinery. Where one time had 4 people working the machine to keep it efficient and safe to 1 person working the machine! Yet only being paid a singular wage and with more production quota! Stop employers from cutting jobs to make them more profit. This country used to have freely available work and now 10k people scramble in hopes of getting employed in 1 advertised job. Greed has destroyed the employment rates if theres no job then how are people meant to be employed? Current economy new self employed ventures rarely survive 12 months due to the lack of circulating wealth. So stop blaming jobless people and blame those who took away the jobs in the first place - the employers! I remember the job pages in the newspaper in the late 90s early 00s it was over 30 pages then get to 2010 and its 2 pages. Now its barely even that even online its just agencies that offer no secure employment. Stop blaming people for not being in work when new jobs arent available. Get rid of zero hour contracts they should be illegal especially when working for a company that makes you register as self employed but dictate your hours of work just so they get out of paying sick pay and holiday pay! | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you? I should be saying the same to you.... I'm.not throwing round unfounded insults because I dont share your blind faith. And please do point out the `unfounded insults`" Uneducated The phrase pathetic lives was also mentioned by someone else. | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet." If you're referring to me, which I think you are. I was eating dinner with my kids because that's way more important than calling you out on the bullshit. Anyway, I'll pick this up either later or tomorrow because I'm off to spend some quality time with my family. Thanks all | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. If you're referring to me, which I think you are. I was eating dinner with my kids because that's way more important than calling you out on the bullshit. Anyway, I'll pick this up either later or tomorrow because I'm off to spend some quality time with my family. Thanks all "I wasnt actually | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. " Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you? I should be saying the same to you.... I'm.not throwing round unfounded insults because I dont share your blind faith. And please do point out the `unfounded insults` Uneducated The phrase pathetic lives was also mentioned by someone else." Hardly unfounded... | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn." Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn." The Guardian it must be correct then! | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet." such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Once again I suggest you realise that ppe doesn't just magically appear out of nowhere. And once again you ignore the topic, choosing to post irrelevant stuff to divert from being wrong. As for the links, there is no debate that there isn't enough ppe, If it was available we would have it. Your claim about innacurate stats is bullshit as the gov aren't claiming to have done 100,000 a day and the reason we aren't doing so is because some of the tests have proved to be innacurate. Just as some ppe we have been receiving is faulty/inadequate. The topic is ppe I've posted links about ppe And I'm posting irrelevant stuff. Johnson claimed we would do 100,000 checks a day.fact. No, the topic is what is the government doing in your community. The ppe is an aside. Unsurprisingly you just focus/cling to the ppe part as it is one thing you have bookmarked your canned responses for and to the uneducated it seems to show the gov don't care. Just cant help yourselves can you? I should be saying the same to you.... I'm.not throwing round unfounded insults because I dont share your blind faith. And please do point out the `unfounded insults` Uneducated The phrase pathetic lives was also mentioned by someone else. Hardly unfounded..." Please stop..I'm in tears here.Some wool is having a pop at me on a swingers forum | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. The Guardian it must be correct then!" You have sources that prove this to be untrue? I'm open to all information. Let's have it then... | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day?" My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out " When the outbreak occurred in Nothern Italy they turned buses around at the border. We just let our holiday makers return directly into general population. No quarantine. No testing. Just off to school kids. What is more inconvenient. Quarantining all the holiday makers from Northern Italy or locking down an entire nation? | |||
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"I didn’t blame the unemployed. I said I hope the government are going to be tough on the long term unemployed. The government need to be tough on employers. Forcing them to take on the required amount of staff required not short staffing and paying them minimum wages and forcing their workers to do the work of 3 people+. Take for example a factory that deals with fabric rolls for a variety of goods. used to employ over 80 people to work their antiquated machinery. Now only staffed by 20 these same antiquated in need of repair machinery. Where one time had 4 people working the machine to keep it efficient and safe to 1 person working the machine! Yet only being paid a singular wage and with more production quota! Stop employers from cutting jobs to make them more profit. This country used to have freely available work and now 10k people scramble in hopes of getting employed in 1 advertised job. Greed has destroyed the employment rates if theres no job then how are people meant to be employed? Current economy new self employed ventures rarely survive 12 months due to the lack of circulating wealth. So stop blaming jobless people and blame those who took away the jobs in the first place - the employers! I remember the job pages in the newspaper in the late 90s early 00s it was over 30 pages then get to 2010 and its 2 pages. Now its barely even that even online its just agencies that offer no secure employment. Stop blaming people for not being in work when new jobs arent available. Get rid of zero hour contracts they should be illegal especially when working for a company that makes you register as self employed but dictate your hours of work just so they get out of paying sick pay and holiday pay!" I'm still waiting to hear why they are relevant | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. The Guardian it must be correct then! You have sources that prove this to be untrue? I'm open to all information. Let's have it then..." The key word is ample, meaning more than enough. At this moment we are not without enough ventilators and the 18,000 is most likely a worst case scenario. A little bit of positivity would go a long way. | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. The Guardian it must be correct then! You have sources that prove this to be untrue? I'm open to all information. Let's have it then..." You have used one article. On today's briefing Mr Hancock did not say we are short of ventilators. In fact he said there are 2000 avaliable and that numbers has gone up from before. | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight " More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out When the outbreak occurred in Nothern Italy they turned buses around at the border. We just let our holiday makers return directly into general population. No quarantine. No testing. Just off to school kids. What is more inconvenient. Quarantining all the holiday makers from Northern Italy or locking down an entire nation?" Why keep repeating it though? Yes there have been mistakes but why drag it up all the time? | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. The Guardian it must be correct then! You have sources that prove this to be untrue? I'm open to all information. Let's have it then... The key word is ample, meaning more than enough. At this moment we are not without enough ventilators and the 18,000 is most likely a worst case scenario. A little bit of positivity would go a long way. " Still not biting. | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out When the outbreak occurred in Nothern Italy they turned buses around at the border. We just let our holiday makers return directly into general population. No quarantine. No testing. Just off to school kids. What is more inconvenient. Quarantining all the holiday makers from Northern Italy or locking down an entire nation? Why keep repeating it though? Yes there have been mistakes but why drag it up all the time? " And........ still not biting. | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." " I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000 | |||
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"Some things we have learned from swinging. Is that some people are single for a reason. Politics ruins swinging. Really this virus section should be taken off. Keep this site for swinging and swinging related activities. I know I’m guilty of being dragged into it. " | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000" Yesterday there were 19016 tests so by your logic that makes Hancock superman....and Boris said 100k by the end of the month so you can judge him on that number then | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000" Really? I copied and pasted EXACTLY what you said. Hoping to do 100.000 test is not a stat, its a projection. | |||
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"Some things we have learned from swinging. Is that some people are single for a reason. Politics ruins swinging. Really this virus section should be taken off. Keep this site for swinging and swinging related activities. I know I’m guilty of being dragged into it. " Dragged into it? Youre free to ignore the virus category of the forums. Dont post on a thread then you wont be involved. Engaging on a thread is no fault but your own, you dont get dragged into any part of the forum. You chose to be involved so if you dont want to be then dont comment its just that simple. | |||
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"lionel seems to be one of them type of people who likes to cause an argument for arguments sake." Yep I'm the one who blamed the nhs for the crisis | |||
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" Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. ... its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there " Except this is not true. Firstly, this government did a study on the effects of a virus outbreak over two years ago. They found that there would be a shortage of PPE. They did not bother to do anything about it. That isn't scoring political points, it's a fact that is very easy to find out, to the extent that not finding it out strikes me as inventing a political 'it's not their fault' point. It is. They knew the danger and decided it wasn't worth doing anything about it. God help us all, George W Bush (hardly the voice of sweet reason in any normal time) made a speech 20 years ago saying any government that claimed to be a government had to be ready for a virus outbreak, that it was always not an IF issue, but WHEN. They did the study. They knew they needed more PPE gear. The PM here said over a month ago they were going to supply it. And they didn't. NHS workers are dying because of it. | |||
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"lionel seems to be one of them type of people who likes to cause an argument for arguments sake. Yep I'm the one who blamed the nhs for the crisis" what is your view on rmt boss steve hedley wanting boris to die and to have hopefully infected his cabinet members | |||
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"lionel seems to be one of them type of people who likes to cause an argument for arguments sake. Yep I'm the one who blamed the nhs for the crisis" Who blamed the NHS? | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. The Guardian it must be correct then! You have sources that prove this to be untrue? I'm open to all information. Let's have it then... You have used one article. On today's briefing Mr Hancock did not say we are short of ventilators. In fact he said there are 2000 avaliable and that numbers has gone up from before. " Ok so maybe I wasn't clear. I didn't say we have run out of ventilators. The article doesn't say we have run out of ventilators. If 18000 is "ample" then what is barely sufficient? 17000? 16000? At the moment we have 10 000. A far cry from 18000. If we were prepared we wouldn't be crying out for ventilators. If we weren't prepared we should have tried to buy time. It seems pretty simple to me. | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000 Yesterday there were 19016 tests so by your logic that makes Hancock superman....and Boris said 100k by the end of the month so you can judge him on that number then " Where is this?I've just looked and they were doing 8000 on Tuesday If this has been increased dramatically I'll stand corrected | |||
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"lionel seems to be one of them type of people who likes to cause an argument for arguments sake. Yep I'm the one who blamed the nhs for the crisis Who blamed the NHS?" Read the thread | |||
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" Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. ... its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there Except this is not true. Firstly, this government did a study on the effects of a virus outbreak over two years ago. They found that there would be a shortage of PPE. They did not bother to do anything about it. That isn't scoring political points, it's a fact that is very easy to find out, to the extent that not finding it out strikes me as inventing a political 'it's not their fault' point. It is. They knew the danger and decided it wasn't worth doing anything about it. God help us all, George W Bush (hardly the voice of sweet reason in any normal time) made a speech 20 years ago saying any government that claimed to be a government had to be ready for a virus outbreak, that it was always not an IF issue, but WHEN. They did the study. They knew they needed more PPE gear. The PM here said over a month ago they were going to supply it. And they didn't. NHS workers are dying because of it. " They are suppling it though, they just cant get enough. | |||
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"lionel seems to be one of them type of people who likes to cause an argument for arguments sake. Yep I'm the one who blamed the nhs for the crisis what is your view on rmt boss steve hedley wanting boris to die and to have hopefully infected his cabinet members" Ive no idea who he is..do you have a point? | |||
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"lionel seems to be one of them type of people who likes to cause an argument for arguments sake. Yep I'm the one who blamed the nhs for the crisis Who blamed the NHS? Read the thread" I have, and cant see anyone blaming the nhs. | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. The Guardian it must be correct then! You have sources that prove this to be untrue? I'm open to all information. Let's have it then... You have used one article. On today's briefing Mr Hancock did not say we are short of ventilators. In fact he said there are 2000 avaliable and that numbers has gone up from before. Ok so maybe I wasn't clear. I didn't say we have run out of ventilators. The article doesn't say we have run out of ventilators. If 18000 is "ample" then what is barely sufficient? 17000? 16000? At the moment we have 10 000. A far cry from 18000. If we were prepared we wouldn't be crying out for ventilators. If we weren't prepared we should have tried to buy time. It seems pretty simple to me." The introduction of social distancing and then lockdown is intended to buy us time and currently it appears to be working. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! " This | |||
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" Yes there is a shortage of PPE and other basics - not because the government don't care - but because no one ever planned or predicted this would happen as quickly as it did. Manufacturers of PPE are working round the clock to crank out the stuff we need, but again, no-one ever predicted the rate at which this stuff would be used. ... its a bit like being a parent - there is no manual on how to do it ! Stay Safe out there Except this is not true. Firstly, this government did a study on the effects of a virus outbreak over two years ago. They found that there would be a shortage of PPE. They did not bother to do anything about it. That isn't scoring political points, it's a fact that is very easy to find out, to the extent that not finding it out strikes me as inventing a political 'it's not their fault' point. It is. They knew the danger and decided it wasn't worth doing anything about it. God help us all, George W Bush (hardly the voice of sweet reason in any normal time) made a speech 20 years ago saying any government that claimed to be a government had to be ready for a virus outbreak, that it was always not an IF issue, but WHEN. They did the study. They knew they needed more PPE gear. The PM here said over a month ago they were going to supply it. And they didn't. NHS workers are dying because of it. " How do you know that NHS workers have contracted the virus at work and not on the bus to work, the supermarket etc.? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020" Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out When the outbreak occurred in Nothern Italy they turned buses around at the border. We just let our holiday makers return directly into general population. No quarantine. No testing. Just off to school kids. What is more inconvenient. Quarantining all the holiday makers from Northern Italy or locking down an entire nation? Why keep repeating it though? Yes there have been mistakes but why drag it up all the time? And........ still not biting. " How would you be biting? You seem to enjoy biting at everyone else. Please tell me why you insist on being so negative all the time? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO " Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. | |||
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"You get a good impression from these threads who are the can do kind of people. And those who would just moan. " | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000 Yesterday there were 19016 tests so by your logic that makes Hancock superman....and Boris said 100k by the end of the month so you can judge him on that number then Where is this?I've just looked and they were doing 8000 on Tuesday If this has been increased dramatically I'll stand corrected" Here's the problem. From the article I just posted a link to... "in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" ..posted on the 9th. So they are expecting this to hit it's peak on the 19th. And we are setting targets for the end of the month... This also puts paid to the argument that figures are improving. How can that be if we still have 10 days to go to hit our peak? People suggesting that this proves herd immunity works need to look around and realise we are theoretically in lockdown. If the numbers do come down it will prove lockdown works. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! This" ok, so what relevance has that to the point you are just being argumentative, other than proving you are just being argumentative and obtuse? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO " Well that's why this is a discussion. If you have contrary information we would be grateful for being enlightened. | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out When the outbreak occurred in Nothern Italy they turned buses around at the border. We just let our holiday makers return directly into general population. No quarantine. No testing. Just off to school kids. What is more inconvenient. Quarantining all the holiday makers from Northern Italy or locking down an entire nation? Why keep repeating it though? Yes there have been mistakes but why drag it up all the time? And........ still not biting. How would you be biting? You seem to enjoy biting at everyone else. Please tell me why you insist on being so negative all the time? " Still. Not. Biting. | |||
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"You get a good impression from these threads who are the can do kind of people. And those who would just moan. "bet he is a right barrel of laughs in a club | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000 Yesterday there were 19016 tests so by your logic that makes Hancock superman....and Boris said 100k by the end of the month so you can judge him on that number then Where is this?I've just looked and they were doing 8000 on Tuesday If this has been increased dramatically I'll stand corrected Here's the problem. From the article I just posted a link to... "in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" ..posted on the 9th. So they are expecting this to hit it's peak on the 19th. And we are setting targets for the end of the month... This also puts paid to the argument that figures are improving. How can that be if we still have 10 days to go to hit our peak? People suggesting that this proves herd immunity works need to look around and realise we are theoretically in lockdown. If the numbers do come down it will prove lockdown works." no one has suggested it proves herd immunity. Most people can see the lockdown is one of the steps towards reaching herd immunity in a controlled way where the numbers infected at anyone time are at a level the nhs can deal with. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying." They've made up their minds and you're just trying to confuse them with the facts | |||
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"You get a good impression from these threads who are the can do kind of people. And those who would just moan. bet he is a right barrel of laughs in a club "Again..who is this person you quoted? Trust me..you wont see me in st Helen's any time soon. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying." Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc " That’s what I made from it as well. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! This ok, so what relevance has that to the point you are just being argumentative, other than proving you are just being argumentative and obtuse?" I was accused of being argumentative. I pointed out that someone had laid the blame at the foot of the nhs. Part of the debate has been about that. Shall I draw you a picture And still not a word of criticism about the post I quoted. | |||
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"You get a good impression from these threads who are the can do kind of people. And those who would just moan. bet he is a right barrel of laughs in a club " bet it would be amusing to see | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying." Not at all. I just understand how propaganda works. Notably from organisations with opposing political views and other agenda in play | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc " You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail? | |||
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"You get a good impression from these threads who are the can do kind of people. And those who would just moan. bet he is a right barrel of laughs in a club
bet it would be amusing to see"would have to gag him then have some fun  | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out When the outbreak occurred in Nothern Italy they turned buses around at the border. We just let our holiday makers return directly into general population. No quarantine. No testing. Just off to school kids. What is more inconvenient. Quarantining all the holiday makers from Northern Italy or locking down an entire nation?" Germany does not have a border with italy and the mont blanc tunnel was still freely open to all traffic on the 16th of March when we left chamonix, | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail?" Yes, because both are publications with agendas that preach to the converted. Albeit at opposing ends of the spectrum. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! This ok, so what relevance has that to the point you are just being argumentative, other than proving you are just being argumentative and obtuse? I was accused of being argumentative. I pointed out that someone had laid the blame at the foot of the nhs. Part of the debate has been about that. Shall I draw you a picture And still not a word of criticism about the post I quoted." Exactly, there was not a word about the post you quoted, nobody other than the one person you quoted has even acknowledged, agreed with or debated it. Its totally irrelevant and you trying to use it as any sort of motivation or justification is just bollocks and done to deflect away from the point being made. which is ironic as your last reply accuses others of avoiding the subject, whilst trying to change the subject... | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Not at all. I just understand how propaganda works. Notably from organisations with opposing political views and other agenda in play " Probably worth noting is that the Sun and Daily Mail are owned by individuals who benefit greatly from their current tax status upheld by the current government and have a vested interest in our politics. And when I say OUR politics I mean to say they don't even live in the UK. The Guardian on the other hand is owned by a trust. | |||
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"Ok guys.... so this is how a debate works. Someone puts forth a concept and backs it up with reasoning. Another person comes along and points out shortcomings of that reasoning with reasoning of their own. Taking a dump all over someones opinion, insulting them and then walking away is not a debate. It's bullying." Nah your wrong .This is what happens..people throw in completely irrelevant viewpoints which when challenged on they simply refuse to answer and nake a few personal digs. For some reason these same people seem to have an inexplicably high opinion of themselves and think everyone is just dying to meet them. Personally I'd rather spend a few hours in the company of isis but hey ho. | |||
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"The fact is we KNEW we didn't have PPE. We KNEW we didn't have enough ventilators. We KNEW we didn't have enough tests. All of these things we knew. If you are unprepared for anything what do you do? Buy time. Was keeping our borders open buying time? Was keeping schools, workplaces etc open buying time? Did we do ANYTHING that bought time? Was it a bad situation? Yes. Were there always going to be casualties? Yes. Are there more casualties in the UK than need be? The figures speak for themselves. We haven't run out of ventilators. Are you saying we have enough ventilators then? Would you like your life to depend on the validity of that statement? https://www.theguardian.com/world/2020/apr/09/german-army-donates-60-mobile-ventilators-uk-coronavirus-nhs "At present the NHS has about 10,000 ventilators available, but Matt Hancock, the health secretary, has said that 18,000 are needed to ensure there will be ample capacity in seven to 10 days, when it is believed case numbers will peak" But what would Matt Hancock know? What you should be thinking after you read this article is.... if it is true that every country in the world is scrambling with COVID-19... how is that Germany can afford to give them away? Hmmmmn. Because they were prepared? There was a letter in the paper the other day savaging the german's The other day for looking after their own interests Imagine the outcry here If we helped them out When the outbreak occurred in Nothern Italy they turned buses around at the border. We just let our holiday makers return directly into general population. No quarantine. No testing. Just off to school kids. What is more inconvenient. Quarantining all the holiday makers from Northern Italy or locking down an entire nation? Germany does not have a border with italy and the mont blanc tunnel was still freely open to all traffic on the 16th of March when we left chamonix, " Where did I say Germany had a border with Italy? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail?" Liverpool mayor - labour Guardian - Labour Unite Union - Labour Can you see a pattern? That’s where the comment regards agenda comes from. A rounded argument should surely be less bias heavy. Otherwise it loses credibility | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail? Yes, because both are publications with agendas that preach to the converted. Albeit at opposing ends of the spectrum. " You are comparing the guardian to the mail. Ok. | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000 Yesterday there were 19016 tests so by your logic that makes Hancock superman....and Boris said 100k by the end of the month so you can judge him on that number then Where is this?I've just looked and they were doing 8000 on Tuesday If this has been increased dramatically I'll stand corrected" Are you going to acknowledge you were wrong about the amount of tests carried out daily? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020" Or you could look at Labour's Public-private partnerships sell of of the NHS. No party is blameless perhaps now they might actually work together and solve the long running problem rather than point scoring | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! This ok, so what relevance has that to the point you are just being argumentative, other than proving you are just being argumentative and obtuse? I was accused of being argumentative. I pointed out that someone had laid the blame at the foot of the nhs. Part of the debate has been about that. Shall I draw you a picture And still not a word of criticism about the post I quoted. Exactly, there was not a word about the post you quoted, nobody other than the one person you quoted has even acknowledged, agreed with or debated it. Its totally irrelevant and you trying to use it as any sort of motivation or justification is just bollocks and done to deflect away from the point being made. which is ironic as your last reply accuses others of avoiding the subject, whilst trying to change the subject... " Tbh I havent got a fucking clue what you are on about. You asked me where the source was.I told you. You asked me a question.I answered it. And you are still rambling on about fuck knows what. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail? Liverpool mayor - labour Guardian - Labour Unite Union - Labour Can you see a pattern? That’s where the comment regards agenda comes from. A rounded argument should surely be less bias heavy. Otherwise it loses credibility " Right. So you only are allowed an opinion if you are completely political neutral and dont vote for anyone? | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail? Liverpool mayor - labour Guardian - Labour Unite Union - Labour Can you see a pattern? That’s where the comment regards agenda comes from. A rounded argument should surely be less bias heavy. Otherwise it loses credibility " The Labour MP Richard Burgon has won damages of £30,000 in his libel case against the Sun over a claim that a heavy metal band he performed with delighted in Nazi imagery. The high court in London ruled that claims in the story, which ran under the headline “Reich and Roll: Labour’s justice boss ridiculed after he joins a heavy metal band that delights in Nazi symbols”, had caused the shadow justice secretary significant harm. Six newspapers are being sued for libel and invasion of privacy by Christopher Jefferies, the man arrested in December last year by police investigating the murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol. Writs have been issued against the Sun, Daily Mirror, Daily Star, Daily Express, Daily Mail and the Glasgow-based Daily Record. | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000 Yesterday there were 19016 tests so by your logic that makes Hancock superman....and Boris said 100k by the end of the month so you can judge him on that number then Where is this?I've just looked and they were doing 8000 on Tuesday If this has been increased dramatically I'll stand corrected Are you going to acknowledge you were wrong about the amount of tests carried out daily? " I asked you to provide evidence as I can recall.A quick google search said they were doing 8000 tests a day and there was something on The news yesterday about the pin prick tests not working. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail? Liverpool mayor - labour Guardian - Labour Unite Union - Labour Can you see a pattern? That’s where the comment regards agenda comes from. A rounded argument should surely be less bias heavy. Otherwise it loses credibility The Labour MP Richard Burgon has won damages of £30,000 in his libel case against the Sun over a claim that a heavy metal band he performed with delighted in Nazi imagery. The high court in London ruled that claims in the story, which ran under the headline “Reich and Roll: Labour’s justice boss ridiculed after he joins a heavy metal band that delights in Nazi symbols”, had caused the shadow justice secretary significant harm. Six newspapers are being sued for libel and invasion of privacy by Christopher Jefferies, the man arrested in December last year by police investigating the murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol. Writs have been issued against the Sun, Daily Mirror, Daily Star, Daily Express, Daily Mail and the Glasgow-based Daily Record. " And? | |||
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"There are lots of people walking about wearing masks and gloves, if they can get this ppe then why haven't the nhs buyers managed to source it ? The last time I went to my local ag supplier two weeks ago I wanted some blue nitrite gloves which I use for my business, they had sold out but had loads of medical grade latex ones, yet the nhs say they cant find any. Also as regards tests the government said there was a shortage of the chemicals required, the companies denied this yet only yesterday a chap who works in leicester arranging tests said every order he has placed has been reduced by the suppliers by between 15 and 75 % due to shortages in the chemicals required. " Matt Hancock has said that since the start of the outbreak there have been more than 742 million pieces of PPE delivered to the frontline. This includes 161 million masks, 127 million aprons, a million gowns and 345 million pairs of gloves. To me it looks like the government is trying! | |||
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"I love the way people through in ridiculous shouts and when challenged simply stay quiet. such as after you saying the government claimed we are doing 100,000 tests per day when it was pointe out that they actually said they HOPE to carry 100,00 per day? My original words were johnson said he would be doing 100,000 a day I didnt say they were get your facts straight More bullshit. Your words were - "Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000." I've just typed out what I said Johnson said he wanted to do 100,000 tests a day Hancock said 10,000 At present we are doing 8000 Yesterday there were 19016 tests so by your logic that makes Hancock superman....and Boris said 100k by the end of the month so you can judge him on that number then Where is this?I've just looked and they were doing 8000 on Tuesday If this has been increased dramatically I'll stand corrected Are you going to acknowledge you were wrong about the amount of tests carried out daily? I asked you to provide evidence as I can recall.A quick google search said they were doing 8000 tests a day and there was something on The news yesterday about the pin prick tests not working." Watch todays briefing on BBC iplayer. It's not hard! | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail? Liverpool mayor - labour Guardian - Labour Unite Union - Labour Can you see a pattern? That’s where the comment regards agenda comes from. A rounded argument should surely be less bias heavy. Otherwise it loses credibility Right. So you only are allowed an opinion if you are completely political neutral and dont vote for anyone?" Gosh.. you’re not getting it are you. By all means have an opinion, but in the interest of fairness and not looking like a complete nitwit, maybe try and back yourself up with more variety to your evidence. Not just the view of the left. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! This ok, so what relevance has that to the point you are just being argumentative, other than proving you are just being argumentative and obtuse? I was accused of being argumentative. I pointed out that someone had laid the blame at the foot of the nhs. Part of the debate has been about that. Shall I draw you a picture And still not a word of criticism about the post I quoted. Exactly, there was not a word about the post you quoted, nobody other than the one person you quoted has even acknowledged, agreed with or debated it. Its totally irrelevant and you trying to use it as any sort of motivation or justification is just bollocks and done to deflect away from the point being made. which is ironic as your last reply accuses others of avoiding the subject, whilst trying to change the subject... Tbh I havent got a fucking clue what you are on about. You asked me where the source was.I told you. You asked me a question.I answered it. And you are still rambling on about fuck knows what." Im quite sure you haven`t, got a clue. Its lost on you how you ignore posts you cant answer, yet try to imply others are avoiding the question. You throw in random things into your posts yet accuse others of not sticking to the point. And you throw insults and make passive aggressive posts whilst complaining about being insulted. | |||
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"There are lots of people walking about wearing masks and gloves, if they can get this ppe then why haven't the nhs buyers managed to source it ? The last time I went to my local ag supplier two weeks ago I wanted some blue nitrite gloves which I use for my business, they had sold out but had loads of medical grade latex ones, yet the nhs say they cant find any. Also as regards tests the government said there was a shortage of the chemicals required, the companies denied this yet only yesterday a chap who works in leicester arranging tests said every order he has placed has been reduced by the suppliers by between 15 and 75 % due to shortages in the chemicals required. Matt Hancock has said that since the start of the outbreak there have been more than 742 million pieces of PPE delivered to the frontline. This includes 161 million masks, 127 million aprons, a million gowns and 345 million pairs of gloves. To me it looks like the government is trying! " I suppose it's how much faith that they are telling the truth? On The 22nd of Jan he announced to parliament we were "fully prepared'for the outbreak However hats off if he is telling the truth and I'm sure there wont be more horrible stories about the NHS in the media. | |||
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"This is a follow up to a post in the herd immunity thread. https://www.fabswingers.com/forum/virus/997474#last Lionel seems to think that the building of NHS Nightingale was not a major project/investment towards the fight towards covid-19. His logic is that the building already existed. As another poster pointed out, four walls do not make a hospital. Earlier In that thread I pointed out that the government are spending fortunes building new hospital wards, subsidizing the majority of the country to stay at home and isolate etc. Why do people choose to ignore this and instead try to imply the government are doing nothing? In my opinion it is either political point scoring or denial. So, lets here some examples of what the gov are doing in your community. Where I live the council are providing hotel rooms for the homeless people and are in the process of building an entire hospital ward (walls and everything) in the carpark. In the nearest city the nhs nightingale Manchester is expected to be finished by net week. (as a further point I would like to ask how some people think that the government don't care about/want to providing basic ppe when the evidence is that they are making efforts far and beyond that?) Well let's ignore Pre crises funding shall we Www.uniteunion.org The piece on ppe Liverpool echo 6/4,2020 Liverpool mayor calls shortage of ppe an "outrage? Still awaiting a delivery of ppe The guardian 22/3/2020 NHS staff feel like "cannon fodder? Www.rcn.co.uk head of nursing calls for regulator to intervene over ppe concerns Www.medscape dr does after warning about pm about lack 0f ppe Www.nursing home. 8 /4/2020 inadequate supplies Completely inaccurate stats about testing ..100,000 a day..they are barely doing 8000. Efforts far and beyond indeed. Once again I suggest you have a look at matt Hancocks speech on 22/1/2020 Any argument quoting the Liverpool Echo and the Guardian really aren’t worth considering IMO Course they arent You dont agree with what they are saying..ergo they are lying. Nobody used the word lying. Considering as far as I can see it refers to a heavily skewed agenda....the like of which I’m sure you would happily make the same point about with the Mail , Express etc You said the sources I quoted were "not worth considering"implying the were not reliable no? The echo gives a full interview with the major. Pray tell what is the "heavily skewed agenda"of these stories Are you seriously comparing the guardian with the mail? Liverpool mayor - labour Guardian - Labour Unite Union - Labour Can you see a pattern? That’s where the comment regards agenda comes from. A rounded argument should surely be less bias heavy. Otherwise it loses credibility The Labour MP Richard Burgon has won damages of £30,000 in his libel case against the Sun over a claim that a heavy metal band he performed with delighted in Nazi imagery. The high court in London ruled that claims in the story, which ran under the headline “Reich and Roll: Labour’s justice boss ridiculed after he joins a heavy metal band that delights in Nazi symbols”, had caused the shadow justice secretary significant harm. Six newspapers are being sued for libel and invasion of privacy by Christopher Jefferies, the man arrested in December last year by police investigating the murder of Joanna Yeates in Bristol. Writs have been issued against the Sun, Daily Mirror, Daily Star, Daily Express, Daily Mail and the Glasgow-based Daily Record. And? " Was waiting for a response where the Guardian had been successfully sued for libel. Six newspapers all carried the same story not caring if it was true. The glaring omission from the list of our top newspapers is the Guardian. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! This ok, so what relevance has that to the point you are just being argumentative, other than proving you are just being argumentative and obtuse? I was accused of being argumentative. I pointed out that someone had laid the blame at the foot of the nhs. Part of the debate has been about that. Shall I draw you a picture And still not a word of criticism about the post I quoted. Exactly, there was not a word about the post you quoted, nobody other than the one person you quoted has even acknowledged, agreed with or debated it. Its totally irrelevant and you trying to use it as any sort of motivation or justification is just bollocks and done to deflect away from the point being made. which is ironic as your last reply accuses others of avoiding the subject, whilst trying to change the subject... Tbh I havent got a fucking clue what you are on about. You asked me where the source was.I told you. You asked me a question.I answered it. And you are still rambling on about fuck knows what.Im quite sure you haven`t, got a clue. Its lost on you how you ignore posts you cant answer, yet try to imply others are avoiding the question. You throw in random things into your posts yet accuse others of not sticking to the point. And you throw insults and make passive aggressive posts whilst complaining about being insulted. " Are you taking the piss? I've had the insults thrown at me..including yourself so once again Get your facts straight. | |||
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"Taking a random old turn now. Frantic googling and arguments collapsing like a badly made chest of drawers. " Literally no idea what you are on about but carry on | |||
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"There are lots of people walking about wearing masks and gloves, if they can get this ppe then why haven't the nhs buyers managed to source it ? The last time I went to my local ag supplier two weeks ago I wanted some blue nitrite gloves which I use for my business, they had sold out but had loads of medical grade latex ones, yet the nhs say they cant find any. Also as regards tests the government said there was a shortage of the chemicals required, the companies denied this yet only yesterday a chap who works in leicester arranging tests said every order he has placed has been reduced by the suppliers by between 15 and 75 % due to shortages in the chemicals required. Matt Hancock has said that since the start of the outbreak there have been more than 742 million pieces of PPE delivered to the frontline. This includes 161 million masks, 127 million aprons, a million gowns and 345 million pairs of gloves. To me it looks like the government is trying! I suppose it's how much faith that they are telling the truth? On The 22nd of Jan he announced to parliament we were "fully prepared'for the outbreak However hats off if he is telling the truth and I'm sure there wont be more horrible stories about the NHS in the media." Apparently it doesn't matter if you are lying or inaccurate, just so long as you are "positive". If that false information costs lives apparently it doesn't matter. | |||
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"For what it is worth, I think that the Governments response to COVID-19 has been nothing short of spectacular. The Government and British Manufacturers are doing all they can regarding the PPE and what a great job they are doing. Some of the blame has to be placed at the door of NHS bosses who could have used more of their budget towards PPE! In my opinion, none of this is the fault of our Government! This ok, so what relevance has that to the point you are just being argumentative, other than proving you are just being argumentative and obtuse? I was accused of being argumentative. I pointed out that someone had laid the blame at the foot of the nhs. Part of the debate has been about that. Shall I draw you a picture And still not a word of criticism about the post I quoted. Exactly, there was not a word about the post you quoted, nobody other than the one person you quoted has even acknowledged, agreed with or debated it. Its totally irrelevant and you trying to use it as any sort of motivation or justification is just bollocks and done to deflect away from the point being made. which is ironic as your last reply accuses others of avoiding the subject, whilst trying to change the subject... Tbh I havent got a fucking clue what you are on about. You asked me where the source was.I told you. You asked me a question.I answered it. And you are still rambling on about fuck knows what.Im quite sure you haven`t, got a clue. Its lost on you how you ignore posts you cant answer, yet try to imply others are avoiding the question. You throw in random things into your posts yet accuse others of not sticking to the point. And you throw insults and make passive aggressive posts whilst complaining about being insulted. Are you taking the piss? I've had the insults thrown at me..including yourself so once again Get your facts straight." Lionel, you are avoiding the facts, again.. | |||
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