FabSwingers.com forum: "Forsaking all others"

By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

Just a thought re moral high ground threads, if you said "forsaking all orhers" in your vows do you believe you have the right to 'preach' to others re taking the morale high ground about cheating or swinging either seperately or together?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are all entitled to express our _iews as long as those _iews do not breach the slander or libel laws.

Morals don't come into it.

It's either lawful or it's not

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"We are all entitled to express our _iews as long as those _iews do not breach the slander or libel laws.

Morals don't come into it.

It's either lawful or it's not"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just a thought re moral high ground threads, if you said "forsaking all orhers" in your vows do you believe you have the right to 'preach' to others re taking the morale high ground about cheating or swinging either seperately or together?

Didn't say "forsaking all others" cos we already knew that wasn't the plan. I trust my hubby not to do anything that would hurt me, thats enough for me.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"We are all entitled to express our _iews as long as those _iews do not breach the slander or libel laws.

Morals don't come into it.

It's either lawful or it's not

and since the people who do that tend to use the "well we all sin, who are you to judge" arguement, there is a big difference between telling a fib such as "yes i had an extra chocolate bar" and "I am cheating behind someones back"

well at least in my world... i know... its warped like that...

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By *olfgangvwMan
over a year ago

Mansfield

Let's face it swinging involves sex with another person. Whether you're partner/spouse knows or not it's still sex with another person. I have sex with other people and my wife doesn't know or suspect. These "moral high ground" swingers annoy me when they say it's cheating because the partner doesn't know!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

in one way or another we will all sin in our lives. Two things which are certain are that we are going to get old and the other is we will all die. Whats wrong with having lots of naughty fun along the way. After all we are all dead a very long time

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

" These "moral high ground" swingers annoy me when they say it's cheating because the partner doesn't know!"

okay... so what would you call it then... i am just really curious now

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"Let's face it swinging involves sex with another person. Whether you're partner/spouse knows or not it's still sex with another person. I have sex with other people and my wife doesn't know or suspect. These "moral high ground" swingers annoy me when they say it's cheating because the partner doesn't know!"

No wonder they annoy you, they aew right...you are cheat, if you can live with that fine. But try not to bring your inability to understand trust and honesty onto a site where couples who love each other are are open and honest with each other.

Its boring as feck

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"in one way or another we will all sin in our lives. Two things which are certain are that we are going to get old and the other is we will all die. Whats wrong with having lots of naughty fun along the way. After all we are all dead a very long time"

because people get hurt

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

but that is like calling all sins the same....

so is,lets just say... nicking a biro the same as committing a murder?

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By *olfgangvwMan
over a year ago

Mansfield

I just find it strange that you can have sex with someone else with your partners consent and that's different when the partner doesn't know! I can't see the difference!

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By *exki11enWoman
over a year ago

Bristol

" These "moral high ground" swingers annoy me when they say it's cheating because the partner doesn't know!"

Do you understand the definition of the word cheating? It's exactly that^^^^^ Please don't try to justify what you're doing by trying to claim we're all doing the same thing. We're not - some of us are honest and not deliberately and selfishly hurting the person we love for our own gratification.

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By *edbagioMan
over a year ago

ripon

if they dont catch you cant harm can it

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

have to say i'm absolutely speechless...... really... i am....

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By *olfgangvwMan
over a year ago

Mansfield

I understand perfectly. Sex with someone else is cheating whether your partner knows or not. Mine doesn't. Yours does. In my opinion it's no different yet you seem to have more morals!!!

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By *exki11enWoman
over a year ago

Bristol

"if they don't catch you cant harm can it

So because they don't know, it's OK?

Unbelievable. Some people have no conscience.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd end a relationship before I cheated.,I believe I'm a loyal person.

I'd definitely rather meet a woman whos partner knows though...

I've heard some crazy ideas from people, who think couples who swing, cant really love eachother..I believe the exact opposite! my reasoning is the total trust employed,an acceptance of HIGH sexual needs,an acceptance of a more open sexual likes.

I believe religion should have NOTHING to say when it comes to sex

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I understand perfectly. Sex with someone else is cheating whether your partner knows or not. Mine doesn't. Yours does. In my opinion it's no different yet you seem to have more morals!!!"

Theres a massive difference, we're not hurt by our partners actions. Your wife would be.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But of course its cheating if your partner doesn't know.

How can it be cheating if they do know?

Cheating means deception, which means doing something to deceive someone else WITHOUT THEIR KNOWLEDGE.

People are usually deceived for two reasons, either the cheat is taking money or goods by deception or the cheat is doing something he/she knows would deeply hurt or break the heart of the person they're deceiving.

No matter how you try to dress it up cheating is wrong.

Swinging is not cheating!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i was married for 15 years to find out my husband cheated on me with my friends now i live in an open poly relationship no lying cheating involved live is so much simplier now men and woman that cheats have their reasons nobody has the right to judge them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just find it strange that you can have sex with someone else with your partners consent and that's different when the partner doesn't know! I can't see the difference!"

r u for real u don't see the difference really !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ok the difference is one is being honest and open with the person they love and giving them a choice to choose if they want to be part of the relationship that is open the other u r cheating on your partner and not giving her the same choice or priveldge to do the same xxxx

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By *edriderCouple
over a year ago

glasgow

We dont claim to be morally superior to anyone, what we are is open,honest and aware of each other, if your not 'cheating' your partner,what are you doing?? and if your not doing anything wrong why not tell them?

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By *olfgangvwMan
over a year ago

Mansfield

Of course you believe you're morally superior. In my opinion, & its only my personal _iew, sex with anyone else is cheating whether the partner knows or not! I choose not to tell my partner. You choose to. No difference in my eyes.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if its not cheating.. why would your partner need to "suspect" anything? you know your doing wrong...

i don't take a "moral high ground" i just know the difference between right and wrong... have i done things that are wrong in the past, yes,,, do i regret them.. yes.. why because they were wrong. if someone comes on here and asks for sympathy or understanding for their cheating, people who are on the right side of wrong arent gonna be sympathetic to them are they? its not a moral high ground its just expressing an opinion which is so often asked for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Of course you believe you're morally superior. In my opinion, & its only my personal _iew, sex with anyone else is cheating whether the partner knows or not! I choose not to tell my partner. You choose to. No difference in my eyes. "

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheating

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

actually i don't think i am as i don't sleep with other guys and anything i do i do with my partner i do sleep with girls thats what i do and some technically would say i am not cheating because its girls and some would say i am but heres the clue he is always there always with me and never behind his back maybe thats why i believe i am different to u xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rather than choosing not to, if your so sure that what your doing is right, how about having the balls to test your theory on your partner and see if she agrees with you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rather than choosing not to, if your so sure that what your doing is right, how about having the balls to test your theory on your partner and see if she agrees with you!"

ooo this is a very very good idea xxxx

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By *iewMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Angus & Findhorn

the whole thread is looking for statements that shock...

boring

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"the whole thread is looking for statements that shock...

boring"

or who has the longest piece of rope......

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By *olfgangvwMan
over a year ago

Mansfield

I've hung myself before!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I just find it strange that you can have sex with someone else with your partners consent and that's different when the partner doesn't know! I can't see the difference!"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I've hung myself before! "

You obviously cheated at hanging yourself,because you are still alive to post such shit !

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

" These "moral high ground" swingers annoy me when they say it's cheating because the partner doesn't know!"

but surely thats 'cos it is..

its not 'swinging' as most on here would perceive it..

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By *adchickCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

One word defines the difference between swinging and cheating........

HONESTY

And if I need to explain that to you.... I might as well give up on the world right now.

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By *ngieandMrManCouple
over a year ago

hereford

I sometimes wonder why adultery isn't actually illegal in this country.

When you think about it, betraying an unsuspecting partner can sometimes be the absolute worst thing that ever happens to them.

People will say, 'well its not like steeling' or 'its not a physical assault' etc. but quite often its much worse than that.

Most crimes committed against a person are not actually personal, the robber robs 'A' house that happens to belong to someone.

Betrayal on the other hand tends to be very specific, personal and 'with intent'.

Some people NEVER fully recover for being betrayed by what they thought was their nearest and dearest.

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By *ensual temptressWoman
over a year ago

Southampton

there are always shades of grey .yes im married and yes i consider my vows to my husband important .but, and to us its a huge BUT we have decided together ,openly and with fully honestly to include others as part of our sex life . im not hurting my husband or anyone else ,decieving him or anyone else ,lieing to him or anyone else .can those cheating say that? those cheating may say its being morally superior or it could be they are trying to ease their own contience and justify hier actions ,which those who are open and honest with their partner just dont have to do !!! vast differences in my book .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I sometimes wonder why adultery isn't actually illegal in this country.

When you think about it, betraying an unsuspecting partner can sometimes be the absolute worst thing that ever happens to them.

People will say, 'well its not like steeling' or 'its not a physical assault' etc. but quite often its much worse than that.

Most crimes committed against a person are not actually personal, the robber robs 'A' house that happens to belong to someone.

Betrayal on the other hand tends to be very specific, personal and 'with intent'.

Some people NEVER fully recover for being betrayed by what they thought was their nearest and dearest."

and Britain would end up the gay/lesbian capital of the world...if people were imprisoned.

100 years down the line, people start to evolve into a same sex species..laying wee golden eggs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Live and let live me as I am not employed for the CPS or within the church looking for sinners.

Life is not black and white after all, many religions abhor homosexuality and then there are 12 deadly sins for another.

I like the word tolerance, its a nice word it works multiple ways and doesn't start wars. you might not like what others do but its not going to kill anyone exercising a little from time to time.

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By *olfgangvwMan
over a year ago

Mansfield

Totally agree. Tolerance is the thing. However, & not wanting to rant, there are too many moralists who don't believe/agree with tolerance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I understand perfectly. Sex with someone else is cheating whether your partner knows or not. Mine doesn't. Yours does. In my opinion it's no different yet you seem to have more morals!!!"

You carry on telling yourself that if it makes you feel better.

Kat x x

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"Totally agree. Tolerance is the thing. However, & not wanting to rant, there are too many moralists who don't believe/agree with tolerance. "

Why should we tolerate someone who doesn't see that cheating... deliberate deception...is a world away from swinging...i hope anyone who ever considered meeting you sees the derogatory opinion you have of swinging..,and the people who swing.

You seem typical of the hypocritical men who look down on swinging women as a convient hole...but would never let their wife swing...

An attitude i will never tolerate,

And as you seem to have trouble understanding English...

"cheatingpresent participle of cheat (Verb)

Verb:

Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".

Deceive or trick."

Not swinging

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Totally agree. Tolerance is the thing. However, & not wanting to rant, there are too many moralists who don't believe/agree with tolerance. "

There are in life thats the reasons we had 9/11 etc but it doesn't make it right. If only people were more tolerant life would be so much richer for all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I understand perfectly. Sex with someone else is cheating whether your partner knows or not. Mine doesn't. Yours does. In my opinion it's no different yet you seem to have more morals!!!"

I've stated before that I won't judge the why's and therefores of why people are deceiving partners... but seriously mate do you really enjoy looking like an imbecile on a public forum? I don't believe for an instant that anyone could be stupid enough to believe what you're saying but just incase I'm wrong I've googled something for ya...here educate yourself for fuck sake.

CHEATING definition:

When in a committed relationship, the definition of cheating is based on both parties' opinions, and both parties may redefine their understanding to match the party at an either lower or higher extreme of this definition. Cheating constitutes doing anything, whether verbal or physical, that one would not do in front of their significant other.

CHEATING

present participle of cheat (Verb)

Verb:

1. Act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, esp. in a game or examination: "she cheats at cards".

2. Deceive or trick.

Hope this clears it up for you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

One thing that threads like this are good for is that it helps those who don't meet cheats to decide who to block.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"One thing that threads like this are good for is that it helps those who don't meet cheats to decide who to block.

For me its ppl who are incredibly unself aware.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Totally agree. Tolerance is the thing. However, & not wanting to rant, there are too many moralists who don't believe/agree with tolerance. "

The "quote digging a hole" comes to mind if some one gives their consent to their partner sleeping with someone else that isnt cheating if you are out shagging anything that move behind your partners back that is just what i call a cheater no moral high ground thats my opinion and im entitled to it if you think any different i think you are just trying to justify you cheating

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"Totally agree. Tolerance is the thing. However, & not wanting to rant, there are too many moralists who don't believe/agree with tolerance.

There are in life thats the reasons we had 9/11 etc but it doesn't make it right. If only people were more tolerant life would be so much richer for all.

Shall we start with some tolerance for the married couples who are the reasons sites like this started...who are sick and tired of being associated with marriage wrecking and amorality...

tolerance is a 2 way street

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's kinda getting me down all this shite constantly, I really don't give a toss who's shagging who... but am getting really pissed off with all the bullshit being spouted.. it's insulting to peoples intelligence

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Totally agree. Tolerance is the thing. However, & not wanting to rant, there are too many moralists who don't believe/agree with tolerance.

People will always try to justify why they do this that or the other. Others will always come the fuck you and say they hate what you are doing. Its not just people cheating it spans so many aspects in life from football to religion and it gets a bit boring people constantly going at it. I think some really enjoy the conflict which is truly disturbing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can't disagree with that.

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"I understand perfectly. Sex with someone else is cheating whether your partner knows or not. Mine doesn't. Yours does. In my opinion it's no different yet you seem to have more morals!!!"

I never read such bollocks in my life. If your partner does NOT know you are shagging behind their back, then it is Cheating, no matter how much you are in denial that is what it is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/03/12 00:42:28]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I understand perfectly. Sex with someone else is cheating whether your partner knows or not. Mine doesn't. Yours does. In my opinion it's no different yet you seem to have more morals!!!

I never read such bollocks in my life. If your partner does NOT know you are shagging behind their back, then it is Cheating, no matter how much you are in denial that is what it is. "

quick, round the back MrsCoantrim, ur Mr aint lookin..heeheeheee

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By *oantrimcpl2010Couple
over a year ago

Lisburn

"I understand perfectly. Sex with someone else is cheating whether your partner knows or not. Mine doesn't. Yours does. In my opinion it's no different yet you seem to have more morals!!!

I never read such bollocks in my life. If your partner does NOT know you are shagging behind their back, then it is Cheating, no matter how much you are in denial that is what it is.

quick, round the back MrsCoantrim, ur Mr aint lookin..heeheeheee"

Behave you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

OK so it's cheating.

If you don't want to meet a cheat, then don't. If you ain't bothered then meet them.

is there anything else to say on the subject?

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"OK so it's cheating.

If you don't want to meet a cheat, then don't. If you ain't bothered then meet them.

is there anything else to say on the subject?"

no so can we stop having these feckers whining on the forum,

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By *ensual temptressWoman
over a year ago

Southampton

"OK so it's cheating.

If you don't want to meet a cheat, then don't. If you ain't bothered then meet them.

is there anything else to say on the subject?"

ppl state that! but op as bleating that they felt those who HAVE partners consent to play and full knowledge take moral high ground to those who play behind their partners back . maybe if those who are cheating dont exspect everyone to condone their actions would be easier for everyone lol !!

i choose not to knowingly meet anyone with partner /wife behind their spouses back .cant be arse with the shite storm and issues involved and is my personal choice .if ANYONE wants to cheat on their patner then thats their call but i dont have to be any party to it or sooth their contience .

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By *mcouple1Couple
over a year ago

nr warrington

wonder if ur missus is on fab lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"the whole thread is looking for statements that shock...

boring"

.....so boring, my yawn actually caused me agony

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"One thing that threads like this are good for is that it helps those who don't meet cheats to decide who to block.

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

OK, it seems that this thread has gone off course slightly!

The 'question'

If you said forsaking all others in your vows wether as a couple or as a single and you swing do you or can you take the moral high ground abouth those that are classed as cheats?

Also do all those that you said those vows infront of know you swing? If not is that a form of cheating? After all These are the witnesses to you pledging forsaking all others.

Please keep your responses/replies civil as all are entitled to their opinion

This was the question asked

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

Ok to the actual OP...

We didnt say it, it would have been hypocritical as i spent the night before the wedding shagging my best mate and me and kev had a threesome on our wedding night.

However if a couple did say it they said it to each other, it was a promise at the time they meant.(Presumably)

The fact that life has taken them as a couple into interesting sexual experiences doesnt make that promise invalid, as part of the swinging mentality is being able to separate sex and love. You can argue that despite our numerous sexual partners kev and i more fully understand what foresaking all others means than a monogamous couple as on an emotional level we are bonded in a way that goes far deeper than whose bits go where.

Then there are couples who have simply grown together, they know they said one thing, now they believe another...people change. If they change together they are still honoring the intention of their vows.Which is where cheating differs from swinging...though i find it amazing this has to be explained yet again.

Marriage is not just abut sex, but about making a commitment to someone, those vows also include honouring and respecting, by playing behind your partners back you are doing neither.

And remember there are plenty of couples here who arent married...there promises are individual to their relationships.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"OK, it seems that this thread has gone off course slightly!

The 'question'

If you said forsaking all others in your vows wether as a couple or as a single and you swing do you or can you take the moral high ground abouth those that are classed as cheats?

Also do all those that you said those vows infront of know you swing? If not is that a form of cheating? After all These are the witnesses to you pledging forsaking all others.

Please keep your responses/replies civil as all are entitled to their opinion

This was the question asked"

Happily, even taking vows in front of people doesn't mean they need to know what you get up to in your private life. A person wouldn't be cheating the witness as they didn't vow to them.

As others have said on this thread, there is a perfectly good definition for cheating that doesn't include the word " honesty"....Swingers are not normally decieving their other half, hence honesty and not cheating.

Now for me, as lots have probably gathered, I don't care what other people do in their lives, if they are on here to play behind their OH's back then thats up to them, and it doesn't involve us....BUT I find the married people who try and justify why they are doing it or make comments that I have quoted up the thread with a goggle eyed smiley sickening.

If you are going to play away,play away, but stand up and be a man/ woman and accept you are cheating on your OH and stop making excuses for yourself....because it is cheating wether you like it or not.

I have more respect for the people who say, yes I am married person, the OH doesn't know and I am not going to make excuses or discuss why I am cheating, but do you fancy a meet.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

PS...the married and playing question is taking over the Timeswaster threads in the most posted league lately

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

[Removed by poster at 05/03/12 10:02:06]

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

Does cheating only apply to the physical act?"

so it comes back to cheating after all the "blah blah blah" about sticking to the question......

disingenious..... sorry... but it is...

i'll tell you what "forsaking all others" means to me...

it means, for me, i want to spend my life with that person and not act in a way that would hurt them... if they are playing together they are not hurting each other.....

see if you want to take things litteraly then cool...... but there is also something about "coverting others" than you may want to read up on.....

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

[Removed by poster at 05/03/12 10:02:31]

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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

Like a few others, we chose not to say it in our vows. Personal choice.

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By *ust JoanWoman
over a year ago

caerphilly

"We are all entitled to express our _iews as long as those _iews do not breach the slander or libel laws.

Morals don't come into it.

It's either lawful or it's not

well at least in my world... i know... its warped like that...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Cake and eat it springs to mind and if only one part of the couple believes this which one is right and which wrong?

Taking it further does it matter which one of the sexes suggests?

Still how ever you come up with swinging as right for you or both of you does it give you the right to take the moral high ground in telling others what is the 'correct' process?

Does cheating only apply to the physical act? "

who said your not allowed to have your cake and eat someone elses? if one part of a couple doesnt beleive something is right and the other does, they sit down, discuss it like adults and should only go as far as the least willing partner is happy to, im not married but that is what a partnership is about... taking steps together.. and if your other half doesnt want to, or cant take steps as far as you can you dont go there, you stick with your partner...

For us and our boundaries, cheating consists of any physical or emotional act behind the others back... that includes online chat (in an emotional way, i.e i love you etc), cyber sex, photo swapping, meeting, and IRL sex acts.

obviously.. the most important words in that are " behing the others back" its the deceit that makes it cheating.

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By *ust JoanWoman
over a year ago

caerphilly

Does cheating only apply to the physical act?

so it comes back to cheating after all the "blah blah blah" about sticking to the question......

disingenious..... sorry... but it is...

i'll tell you what "forsaking all others" means to me...

it means, for me, i want to spend my life with that person and not act in a way that would hurt them... if they are playing together they are not hurting each other.....

see if you want to take things litteraly then cool...... but there is also something about "coverting others" than you may want to read up on.....

"Thou shalt not covert thy neighbors wife"

Very true, if all is done openly and with a blessing then there will be no problems, it's when you both want different things that the cracks appear!

If any member of a couple isn't happy with anything that is happening then all should stop, if it doesn't then the wedding vows are just worthless words and the divorce courts will be calling!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I really cant understnad how judgemental some swingers can be.

We are in a society that frowns upon swinger still even though many are now coming round to it so to speak. Yet we have people within the swinging community who will bitch moan and snipe at everyone they can. Do they need to convince themselves they are better than the rest of the "perverts" swinging?

Ot is it just because they love the attention on here, Or are they really so narrow minded they find lots they chastise people about so wrong?

As long as everyone involved is careful, respectful and discrete leave them to it. We personally dont meet someone if we know they are married or cheating, but we would never ever judge anyone who does or a man who cheats, It has nothing to do with us just like our swinging has nothing to do with anyone else, We would hate for someone who doesnt know us to judge us on our lifestyle therfore we will not judge others,

Each to there own is a saying we use the most.

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

I removed my last answer as I was being pulled into the cheating argument rather than the forsaking all others as asked.

Forsaking surely means just that in shall i say vanilla eyes and perhaps we for the most part all started our lives togther that way and some will always feel that way. For those that feel they are more enlightened and for those that feel that growing together some how mitigates or excuses that you now swing does that mean that you have the right to tell others that your way is the correct way to meet others for sex! Hence the moral high ground?

Sex with others other than just your marriage/life partner when those vows are taken surely is cheating?

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

"Like a few others, we chose not to say it in our vows. Personal choice."

Was it because you didn't think you'd be able to stick to them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'd end a relationship before I cheated.,I believe I'm a loyal person.

I agree. If I was to cheat on Mr Mc it would mean I was no longer in love with him and no longer valued our marraige so would therfore end it. Would never cheat.

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

"I removed my last answer as I was being pulled into the cheating argument rather than the forsaking all others as asked.

Sex with others other than just your marriage/life partner when those vows are taken surely is cheating?

Pulled back into the cheating argument! Damn!

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"I really cant understnad how judgemental some swingers can be.

Ot is it just because they love the attention on here, Or are they really so narrow minded they find lots they chastise people about so wrong?

Each to there own is a saying we use the most."

see that is interesting... and as someone i know i respect that opinion of and i can chat to....

but in the middle you say:

" We personally dont meet someone if we know they are married or cheating."

so why is that? there must be some sort of judging going on otherwise there is no need for the statement....

you would just meet everyone.....

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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

"Like a few others, we chose not to say it in our vows. Personal choice.

Was it because you didn't think you'd be able to stick to them?"

No, it's because we were already swinging when we met and it wasn't something we wanted to give up. We are faithful to each other, we don't cheat on each other. We play together, as a couple. If at any time one or other of us becomes uncomfy with the idea of swinging then we will discuss it as adults and take it from there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/03/12 10:33:34]

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Sex with others other than just your marriage/life partner when those vows are taken surely is cheating?

Only if it involves deceit, and if you are a couple swinging together, then it involves no deceit.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Sex with others other than just your marriage/life partner when those vows are taken surely is cheating?

No..

dont see how you can come to that conclusion..

what about masturbation, whats your personal 'moral' _iewpoint on that?

even if cpl's had included the 'forsake' element in their marriage vows, its their decision as adults whenever they wish to venture into this 'lifestyle'..

we have found that a lot of the cpl's we have met have been some of the most sincere, open and honest people we have met..

communication being the key..

looks like you are just being argumentative for the sake of it..

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

"I really cant understnad how judgemental some swingers can be.

Ot is it just because they love the attention on here, Or are they really so narrow minded they find lots they chastise people about so wrong?

Each to there own is a saying we use the most.

see that is interesting... and as someone i know i respect that opinion of and i can chat to....

but in the middle you say:

" We personally dont meet someone if we know they are married or cheating."

so why is that? there must be some sort of judging going on otherwise there is no need for the statement....

you would just meet everyone.....

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

Sex with others other than just your marriage/life partner when those vows are taken surely is cheating?

No..

dont see how you can come to that conclusion..

what about masturbation, whats your personal 'moral' _iewpoint on that?

even if cpl's had included the 'forsake' element in their marriage vows, its their decision as adults whenever they wish to venture into this 'lifestyle'..

we have found that a lot of the cpl's we have met have been some of the most sincere, open and honest people we have met..

communication being the key..

looks like you are just being argumentative for the sake of it..

Agreed...this thread is getting pointless as the OP refuses to accept the experience or _iews of swinging couples.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

who said your not allowed to have your cake and eat someone elses?"

I'd eat your cake

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

who said your not allowed to have your cake and eat someone elses?

I'd eat your cake

why thank you kind sir

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

Sex with others other than just your marriage/life partner when those vows are taken surely is cheating?

No..

dont see how you can come to that conclusion..

what about masturbation, whats your personal 'moral' _iewpoint on that?

even if cpl's had included the 'forsake' element in their marriage vows, its their decision as adults whenever they wish to venture into this 'lifestyle'..

we have found that a lot of the cpl's we have met have been some of the most sincere, open and honest people we have met..

communication being the key..

looks like you are just being argumentative for the sake of it..

"what about masturbation, whats your personal 'moral' _iewpoint on that?"

Apart from the fact it makes you go blind!

Then you could argue as you use the term argumentative what or who the fantasy is could be seen by some as cheating, as in mind and not body.

This was all about all of those threads that criticise those that cheat if they have said in their own vows forsaking all others do they have the right to criticise to the point of being 'nasty'

Open question and yes I suppose if you want you can see it as argumentative! One mans argument is another's debate.

Not telling anyone who is right and who is wrong?

Debate!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I read about 1/2way down and was dumbfounded..... I have to say this as long as people are honest with their partner bout their needs then anything they do with or without their partners knowledge but WITH their partners consent is not and never will be cheating.

If you do something that breaks the trust someone has in you who loves you and they find out, they are going to be hurt and you are going to be a selfish c**t end of story. Thats not taking the moral high ground thats just telling it how it is!

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

Sex with others other than just your marriage/life partner when those vows are taken surely is cheating?

No..

dont see how you can come to that conclusion..

what about masturbation, whats your personal 'moral' _iewpoint on that?

even if cpl's had included the 'forsake' element in their marriage vows, its their decision as adults whenever they wish to venture into this 'lifestyle'..

we have found that a lot of the cpl's we have met have been some of the most sincere, open and honest people we have met..

communication being the key..

looks like you are just being argumentative for the sake of it..

Agreed...this thread is getting pointless as the OP refuses to accept the experience or _iews of swinging couples. "

lol

How have I refused to accept?

You are refusing to accept my _iew! lol

Incidently this thread was started as an extension of observations of other threads of those that clearly believe that as some have said have never cast the first stone and possibly have selective memories as to how and who instigated the idea of swinging and just how much convincing of the respective partners they had to do in order to fullfil their own fantasy. And don't tell me that's never happened.

Re read the thread and notice the ? after my comments. These mean asking a question not making a statement of fact. Now should I use an ! or ? you decide.......

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

"I read about 1/2way down and was dumbfounded..... I have to say this as long as people are honest with their partner bout their needs then anything they do with or without their partners knowledge but WITH their partners consent is not and never will be cheating.

Err...I'm a little confussed! Are you saying that if you make your partner aware of your needs that it's then OK to do it behind their back because you have made them aware?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think what there is with this is some have very different morals to others and you won't get them to change. Its not unlike how abortion is _iewed by different groups. You all so have to take into account some on here love a contentious issue and enjoy trying to upset others. There is no right or wrong _iewpoint just different ones.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh and now that I've read further down

I think vows are outdated with modern life (although I know you can pick what you wish to say).

There are things you don't often share about yourself in the start of a relationship but eventually you get to know your partner enough to know what he or she will or not freak out about should you tell them.

As long as your are open and honest or willing to put aside thoughts that gratifity yourself for the sake of the person you love then yes I do believe you have the right to take a moral high ground. Should you.....depends yes especially when there are people who don't see that their actions are likely to cause harm!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Err...I'm a little confussed! Are you saying that if you make your partner aware of your needs that it's then OK to do it behind their back because you have made them aware?

You seem to have ignored the most important part of what I said and that was with their consent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The standard Church of England wedding vows aren't open to interpretation. And if people chose to include forsaking all others in their vows, then even if they do swing together, they are cheating on the vows and promises they made before God. Which begs the question, why take those vows in the first place?

So in my opinion anyone who does then go against those vows is cheating, whether it be both parties or not and with the permission of both parties or not.

And yes I am married and no my husband doesn't know about this. I have my reasons, but they are no one elses business! I always state my situation to people who contact me and they have a choice to continue or not.

Oh and no I didn't make any vows before God but I'll still probably be taking the lift down

And please feel free to add me to your block list

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"The standard Church of England wedding vows aren't open to interpretation. And if people chose to include forsaking all others in their vows, then even if they do swing together, they are cheating on the vows and promises they made before God. Which begs the question, why take those vows in the first place?

So in my opinion anyone who does then go against those vows is cheating, whether it be both parties or not and with the permission of both parties or not.

Oh and no I didn't make any vows before God but I'll still probably be taking the lift down

And please feel free to add me to your block list

But you are only cheating on God when it comes to wedding vows... which is a bit like saying you are cheating on your kids if you tell them Santa is real when they are young.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh well thats me guilty again then

But I have never stood up in front of God and vowed that I wouldn't lie to my kids about Santa lol

However people choose to twist it to suit your own situation, it's still cheating. If people aren't believers in God or don't care if they break their vows, why make them?

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

Err...I'm a little confussed! Are you saying that if you make your partner aware of your needs that it's then OK to do it behind their back because you have made them aware?

You seem to have ignored the most important part of what I said and that was with their consent."

Err not ignored but as I said confused, if it's behind someones back is that with their consent?

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

So in my opinion anyone who does then go against those vows is cheating, whether it be both parties or not and with the permission of both parties or not.

Oh and no I didn't make any vows before God but I'll still probably be taking the lift down

And please feel free to add me to your block list

But you are only cheating on God when it comes to wedding vows... which is a bit like saying you are cheating on your kids if you tell them Santa is real when they are young."

So interestingly there are other _iews! however, God and Santa could be opening up another can of worms

"only cheating on God" It's another _iew

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By *_and_MCouple
over a year ago

kings lynn

"I just find it strange that you can have sex with someone else with your partners consent and that's different when the partner doesn't know! I can't see the difference!"

Its called deceit. If you really cannot see the difference then you really haven't been looking hard enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"With or without their knowledge but with their consent" meant that they know you swing but don't want or need to know the details. Consent has been given, boundaries and rules have been put in place and that no-one is going to get hurt.

Examples... Couples where one person is away from home alot of the time, the partner can't offer everything that that person is looking for.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

It really is fairly simple:

If you think a couple talking to eachother and agreeing to meet other people for sex is the same as cheating, you really don't understand what swinging is by any of it's accepted definitions.

If you don’t understand the difference between deceit and consent… then there’s little hope for you ever understanding.

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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

"It really is fairly simple:

If you think a couple talking to eachother and agreeing to meet other people for sex is the same as cheating, you really don't understand what swinging is by any of it's accepted definitions.

If you don’t understand the difference between deceit and consent… then there’s little hope for you ever understanding.

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

If its behind someone's back that implies deceet and nothing to do with permission for if you have permission it's with consent.

Still nothing to do with morale high ground and vows as original thread

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Yes.

As 'moral highground' is a subjective at best.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

if you want to believe the moon is made of green cheese as that suits your position then by all means do so..

but dont try and convince 'us' that thats the case..

bit like stealing when out with your kids and saying its ok its wealth distribution..

and not making a judgement on anyone who chooses to do 'whatever' behind their soh's back..

that their choice..

but to say that a cpl who have decided together to explore or also do 'whatever' as a cpl is 'cheating'...

ffs get a grip, that is a ridiculous stance to adopt..

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

If you challenge a seriously religious person about the words in their scriptures and the literal meanings, most (aside from a few nutters and the dumber ones) will tell you that many aspects of religious scriptures (the bible for example) are not meant to be taken literally… they are symbolic references, meaningful analogies and figurative metaphors which should be interpreted in the spirit they were intended.

So I guess similar can be said for the wedding vow ‘forsaking all others’…. that along with the origins of the marriage ceremony: to protect inheritance. Let’s face it, the marriage ceremony, in terms of the history of religion, is a pretty new thing and certainly ‘man made’.

So may be in the non literal sense and more in its symbolic meaning, ‘forsaking all others’ means to be faithful with your heart and bank balance, by committed to sharing your life with this one person…. as it was written in pre-contraceptive times.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry but this is hilarious to read. So many biting and chancing tails probably as the OP intended why do people just not ignore is beyond me. It just looks like a tit for tat thread back at all the people who play mightier than though on other subjects. You are never going to convince someone who is playing you that your philosophy is the right one.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"If you challenge a seriously religious person about the words in their scriptures and the literal meanings, most (aside from a few nutters and the dumber ones) will tell you that many aspects of religious scriptures (the bible for example) are not meant to be taken literally… they are symbolic references, meaningful analogies and figurative metaphors which should be interpreted in the spirit they were intended.

Then there are those of us who might point out that monogamy is not modeled in the old testament and is a modern European construct.

So you can use the bible to support a whole host of marital structures, what you cannot do is use it to defend lying.

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Then there are those of us who might point out that monogamy is not modeled in the old testament and is a modern European construct.

So you can use the bible to support a whole host of marital structures, what you cannot do is use it to defend lying.

This is true.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"if you want to believe the moon is made of green cheese as that suits your position then by all means do so..

but dont try and convince 'us' that thats the case..

bit like stealing when out with your kids and saying its ok its wealth distribution..

and not making a judgement on anyone who chooses to do 'whatever' behind their soh's back..

that their choice..

but to say that a cpl who have decided together to explore or also do 'whatever' as a cpl is 'cheating'...

ffs get a grip, that is a ridiculous stance to adopt..

i honestly do not know what he cannot see, so have decided he just wants to rile up couples...several of us put the definition of cheat higher up the thread...

OP...cheating involves lying, swinging couples do not lie about their sex lives..what cant u accept about that?

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Sorry but this is hilarious to read. So many biting and chancing tails probably as the OP intended why do people just not ignore is beyond me. It just looks like a tit for tat thread back at all the people who play mightier than though on other subjects. You are never going to convince someone who is playing you that your philosophy is the right one. "

No, but it can be interesting seeing how far they are prepared to take it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I just find it strange that you can have sex with someone else with your partners consent and that's different when the partner doesn't know! I can't see the difference!"

I think maybe your confusing two different things adultery and cheating, in fairness to you many religious groups would completely agree with you when it comes to adultery (taking the Bible and 'religious' definition of adultery). Sex outside of your marriage breaks the 7th commandment and the desire to commit the act breaks the 10th commandment, as far as they're concerned you can't even think it!

Cheating on the other hand, whether in cards or in your sex life, requires an element of deception. It is the deception that makes cheating distinct from adultery or (more accurately) sex outside of marriage.

Forget sex for the moment. To cheat is to mislead, and it's the misleading that is so abhorrent to many on here.

It would be fair to say that many religious fundamentalists see little or no difference between the two, but this is not an extreme christian website, it's a swinging one. Most swingers believe that the only potential 'harm' is in the deception.

The deception is the cheating not the sex.

Traditional swinging is based on honesty.

Therefore a cheat that swings is a contradiction in terms.

I completely understand the desire cheats have for more tolerance and have often pressed for more tolerance for them BUT cheats should stop 'tarring' swingers with the same brush and respect the distinction between the two.

You never know, that may lead to more tolerance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No, but it can be interesting seeing how far they are prepared to take it. "

Thats only valid if you believe the OP has conviction in his words, if he is just attempting to wind people up which looks very much like he is then he has achieved his aim and he will take it as far as people are prepared to snap after him. Its an interesting read though and gives insite into how like to portray themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This was all about all of those threads that criticise those that cheat if they have said in their own vows forsaking all others do they have the right to criticise to the point of being 'nasty'

Open question and yes I suppose if you want you can see it as argumentative! One mans argument is another's debate.

Not telling anyone who is right and who is wrong?

Debate!

The wedding vow argument has little or no merit in my opinion. The vows or commitments are promises made to each other with God as your witness. Your not marrying God, your marrying each other, God is simply witnessing your acceptance of the terms of the contract.

If you enter into a covernant or a contract in business or a house purchase etc then a solicitor may be the witness, they're not entering the contract. As with any contract the two parties of that contract can agree to amend it's terms at any time, if only one party changes the terms then it's simple, they are in breach of contract and at that point the aggrieved party can turn to the original contract and the witness to prove the breach.

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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

We didn't marry in a church .... there was no priest/reverend/minister present. Are we let off??!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if you want to believe the moon is made of green cheese as that suits your position then by all means do so..

but dont try and convince 'us' that thats the case..

bit like stealing when out with your kids and saying its ok its wealth distribution..

and not making a judgement on anyone who chooses to do 'whatever' behind their soh's back..

that their choice..

but to say that a cpl who have decided together to explore or also do 'whatever' as a cpl is 'cheating'...

ffs get a grip, that is a ridiculous stance to adopt..

i honestly do not know what he cannot see, so have decided he just wants to rile up couples...several of us put the definition of cheat higher up the thread...

OP...cheating involves lying, swinging couples do not lie about their sex lives..what cant u accept about that?"

This is a very valid point and it's what I feel is totally true! This comment on my opinion is a "for the win" answer of the day!

Cheating in my opinion wether others agree or not is lying and hiding what you are doing and swinging couples are being honest and they consult each other on who they might or will meet.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"I just find it strange that you can have sex with someone else with your partners consent and that's different when the partner doesn't know! I can't see the difference!

Forget sex for the moment. To cheat is to mislead, and it's the misleading that is so abhorrent to many on here.

The deception is the cheating not the sex.

Traditional swinging is based on honesty.

Therefore a cheat that swings is a contradiction in terms.

You never know, that may lead to more tolerance. "

As always you put things beauifully...i never used to care about cheaters on this site till they all started coming onto the forum saying we are no different to you...as i said somewhere up there tolerance is a two way street...how about some respect for those of us in committed relationships to our life partners .

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"I think maybe your confusing two different things adultery and cheating, in fairness to you many religious groups would completely agree with you when it comes to adultery (taking the Bible and 'religious' definition of adultery). Sex outside of your marriage breaks the 7th commandment and the desire to commit the act breaks the 10th commandment, as far as they're concerned you can't even think it!

Now I really am confused!

Adultery and cheating are different?? Because cheating involves deceit? Adultery doesn't?

Of course adultery and cheating are the same in an emotional context! If you are having an emotional relationship without your partner knowing, you are cheating! Dress it up any way you like, it is cheating!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I' afraid theres so many natural contradictions in many arguments against the cheating and morals and swinging.

in respect to swinging some think we should have little influence in each others lives, as the primary aspect to swinging is the sexual side.Whether someones married or not, some wouldnt even ask.Some wont even discuss what they do for a living regarding their privacy.We dont want to know about other peoples lives, as our lifestyle(as swingers),is supposed to be about open sexual relations and not much more.

while i'm not advocating cheating, as I wouldnt do it myself, or like to be on the receiving end,it does seem somewhat paradoxical with the different types of meets people have...and how much u actually want to know about the person(s)whom ur having sexual relations with...as that could be an extensive process to determine any aspects of the persons that may be unlikeable traits.

I can only speak as a free single(and HOT) man, but ive never been asked on any meets 1to1,group,social,gangbang meets if I'm married/attached...but then I'm pretty much always available to contact so theres nothing to hide..and not too much to constrict me when n where i can meet or the duration.

I can only say i respect anyone on the site/scene(that appears to have a good grasp of whats involved), Ive no business in what they do, like they dont n mine whether they are singles,couples,fuckbuddies..

The paradox comes when u might have more than just that fleeting interest/connection.. then when u have that, it opens a new set of issues,rules and needs

sorry if I sound so neutral on the whole moral highground issue, its just never going to be clear is it?

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By *he_original_poloWoman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Now I really am confused!

Adultery and cheating are different?? Because cheating involves deceit? Adultery doesn't?

Adultery - extramarital sex... a married person having sex with someone other than the person they are married to.... with consent not cheating, without consent cheating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am so glad I am single! This thread has my head spinning as many others of its ilk have done.

However, (isn't there always one) one experience for me was when I was part of an FB couple. My FB started seeing the wife of a swinging couple behind my back. Now had he said he wanted to see her on his own, I would have said go forth my dear. However, he lied about what he was doing and where he was going. That to me was the betrayal, not that he slept with her. The fact that he then dumped me because she gave him an ultimatum was a stinker but hey, shit happens. I still don't know though, if the husband ever knew what was happening.

Nothing to do with forsaking all others, but certainly a lot to do with deceipt and lying and ultimately, cheating.

Sorry OP for losing the point of the thread, just wanted to share my experience.

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By *andKCouple
over a year ago

Norfolk

K didn't think it very funny when I burst out laughing at that point in the ceremony when we were renewing our vows on the beach in Jamaica but she couldn't see what was happening on the nude beach 25 yards behind her at the time - a top notch comedian couldn't have timed it better

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

"I' afraid theres so many natural contradictions in many arguments against the cheating and morals and swinging.

The paradox comes when u might have more than just that fleeting interest/connection.. then when u have that, it opens a new set of issues,rules and needs

sorry if I sound so neutral on the whole moral highground issue, its just never going to be clear is it?

Neutral seems exactly the way to go

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

"I am so glad I am single! This thread has my head spinning as many others of its ilk have done.

Nothing to do with forsaking all others, but certainly a lot to do with deceipt and lying and ultimately, cheating.

Sorry OP for losing the point of the thread, just wanted to share my experience."

Share away all responses welcome...

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

"K didn't think it very funny when I burst out laughing at that point in the ceremony when we were renewing our vows on the beach in Jamaica but she couldn't see what was happening on the nude beach 25 yards behind her at the time - a top notch comedian couldn't have timed it better

lol. Which beach?

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

No, but it can be interesting seeing how far they are prepared to take it.

No convictions required just seeking a concensous as to if youve said the words in you wedding are you cheating on those words just to please yourself and hopefully your partner, and if so the thought that lead you to seeking out others for sex was a solo idea or did you both think of it at the same moment.

And should you then criticise those who can't or won't tell their partner for what ever reason be that imoral in your eyes that they want extramarital sex with others and hopefully them

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By *andKCouple
over a year ago

Norfolk

lol. Which beach?"

the nude beach at Negril

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

lol. Which beach?

Hedo?

Hedo at runaway bay used to be nice!

the nude beach at Negril

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Now I really am confused!

Adultery and cheating are different?? Because cheating involves deceit? Adultery doesn't?

Your wrong. Adultery doesn't need deceit. Cheating requires deceit. Adultery with consent 'cheats' no one.

If you go to your bank to withdraw some money on overdraft, your withdrawing money.

If you go to your bank and rob it, your withdrawing money.

Both maybe withdrawing money but clearly they're not the same.

Forget the money and isolate the robbery element. Forget the sex and isolate the deceit.

Do you really believe they are the same?

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By (user no longer on site)
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Hallelujah!

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By *pl- capdagdeCouple
over a year ago

Cap d agde,France

How do you know this have you died before ?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 05/03/12 21:25:48]

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By *oe_Steve_NWestCouple
over a year ago

Bolton

We're not married. Z

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If marriage vows really need to be questioned by the OP, then I will honestly give our take on it all.

When we exchanged our vows (many years ago), we did so to commit ourselves to each other exclusively. As the years went on, we both realised that we shared the same fantasies (hence us joining the swinging community, so we could explore them - together) because we are able to communicate with each other openly and honestly.

What on earth do we do now? We have not forsaken others.

Do we gather our vicar and wedding guests and make a formal announcement? Do we divorce and remarry, adjusting the vows? Do we look at each other in disgust for not living up to us not being so perfect in the eyes of god? ....I'm at a total loss as what we should do

.....all I know is that we love each other dearly, we behold honesty with each other and embrace liberated sex from time to time ....we don't look for a sneaky shag behind each others back.

We do judge those that aren't honest with their life partner - we are free to.

We don't mind being judged by people (ie vanillas) that think swingers are disgusting - they are free to ....but at least we will understand why they judge us

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

From Diana Dors for those that remember her, just a little side comment:

I said to this priest, "Am I expected to believe that if I went out and had an affair that God was really going to be upset? Okay, thou shalt not kill . . . steal . . . but thou shalt not commit adultery? If no one is any the wiser, what the hell difference does it make?" He was lovely. He told me the Commandments were laid down for a lot of guys living in the desert. -- IMDb Quotes: Diana Dors

Thought peeps might like

lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"From Diana Dors for those that remember her, just a little side comment:

Thought peeps might like

lol

A quote from an known druggy and alcoholic throws a weak form of ammo to defend their actions .....just about useful as them duff scud missiles.

Someone so hellbent on disrespecting themselves are going to struggle to respect others .... looking at pictures of Diana Dors is very pleasing to the eye ...looking at her attitude and lifestyle .....ermmmmmm, pass ta

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People should maybe consider the historical context of adultery commandments laws or rules. Remember a world without contraception and adultery simply meant lots of men bringing up other mens children. Early societies could not handle that, modern societies have much less of a risk due to contraception.

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

No, but it can be interesting seeing how far they are prepared to take it.

And should you then criticise those who can't or won't tell their partner for what ever reason be that imoral in your eyes that they want extramarital sex with others and hopefully them

i will consider deciet and dishonesty wrong in any form, the fact you cannot understand that, or how swinging works ,in fact how adult relationships should work, based on mutual respect, honesty and openess makes me quite sorry for you.

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

No, but it can be interesting seeing how far they are prepared to take it.

And should you then criticise those who can't or won't tell their partner for what ever reason be that imoral in your eyes that they want extramarital sex with others and hopefully them

Good to see your usual form for insulting is still working well!!

Any time you can't win a debate or people don't follow your point of _iew you seem to find it necessary to insult..

So sad but expected.

I haven't actually given my point of _iew here just aired several preconceaved ive witnessed

You won't be privy to my personal _iews just my observations.

But please do tell how swinging works oh wise one, I'm sure many here will be only to happy to know the correct definition.

I take it that you've never ever deceived anyone about anything ever in your life?

Please share your secret on how to be perfect because I'm sure we would all benefit from your words of wisdom.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

to this world, the rest, well no one knows, do they?

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

No, but it can be interesting seeing how far they are prepared to take it.

And should you then criticise those who can't or won't tell their partner for what ever reason be that imoral in your eyes that they want extramarital sex with others and hopefully them

Good to see your usual form for insulting is still working well!!

Any time you can't win a debate or people don't follow your point of _iew you seem to find it necessary to insult..

So sad but expected.

I haven't actually given my point of _iew here just aired several preconceaved ive witnessed

You won't be privy to my personal _iews just my observations.

But please do tell how swinging works oh wise one, I'm sure many here will be only to happy to know the correct definition.

I take it that you've never ever deceived anyone about anything ever in your life?

Please share your secret on how to be perfect because I'm sure we would all benefit from your words of wisdom.

if i told you it wouldnt be a secret...

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By *ittlemorespiceCouple
over a year ago

North Cornwall

Must admit to not reading the whole thread (there have been so many similar ones recently) so apologies if this has already been said but... If you are going on the let he who is without sin cast the first stone bit aren't you taking the moral high ground judging others to be unworthy of judging. Confusing isn't it as I believe we are all sinners if you follow that road. More importantly... Do jury members get judged moralistically before they judge? For that matter what about the actual judges?! Hm... The deeper you delve the more it seems nonsense to me....

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By *john121 OP Man
over a year ago

staffs

So the long and short of it is that the vows don't matter if you're both in agreement, it doesnt matter how the situation came to light or who suggested it first and how or who brought it up.

if you fuck behind someone's back it's cheating no matter what! No exceptions! No excuses!

Any lie is deception and is another form of cheating, again no matter what, no exceptions!

Swingers always hold the moral high ground over others and therefor their opinions take precedence over others.

swingers are always tolerant.

Well at least I now know what is expected...

Have I missed anything? lol

Teach me to ask a simple question!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the long and short of it is that the vows don't matter if you're both in agreement, it doesnt matter how the situation came to light or who suggested it first and how or who brought it up.

Vows do matter, but just like the terms of a contract consenting adults can agree to change the terms of their agreement. God is a witness, the contract is not with God. It's just like 'until death us do part' and divorce.

if you fuck behind someone's back it's cheating no matter what! No exceptions! No excuses!

Yes, if there's deception there's cheating.

Any lie is deception and is another form of cheating, again no matter what, no exceptions!

Even though some lies have that strange label of being 'white lies' they're still lies and therefore deception.

Swingers always hold the moral high ground over others and therefor their opinions take precedence over others.

Maybe I'm mistaken, but I don't think anyone has claimed this to be the case.

swingers are always tolerant.

Definitely not, swingers reflect larger society.

Well at least I now know what is expected...

Have I missed anything? lol

Yes, the distinction between adultery (in it's original definition) and cheating.

Teach me to ask a simple question

Asking the question invites debate, but debate only works if you choose to genuinely engage even with the posts you find difficult to 'contest'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People's reasons for doing what they do is their own, as long as they are honest, people then have the choice to decide to interact / meet that person or not. Who are we to judge anyone? we all know there are good bad and indifferent types of people on this site, but we have freedom of choice.

I have been reading the forums over the past few weeks and it seems to me that there are a lot of people who seem to want to cause an argument and clearly like the sound of their own voices.

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By *ilandlarryCouple
over a year ago

more north lincs than mids!

"So the long and short of it is that the vows don't matter if you're both in agreement, it doesnt matter how the situation came to light or who suggested it first and how or who brought it up.

if you fuck behind someone's back it's cheating no matter what! No exceptions! No excuses!

Any lie is deception and is another form of cheating, again no matter what, no exceptions!

Swingers always hold the moral high ground over others and therefor their opinions take precedence over others.

swingers are always tolerant.

Well at least I now know what is expected...

Have I missed anything? lol

Teach me to ask a simple question!

I don't fuck anyone behind my husband's back. He is normally there, on the bed, beside me with another fem!

We are both consenting adults. We promised to be together, without the forsaking all others line in our vows. We didn't make a "contract" with anyone else when we married.

We married because we love each other and wanted to be together. Part of that love stemmed from swinging so why should it end because we wanted to make a commitment to each other? Just because we want to be life partners doesn't mean that we don't want to have a little fun with other consenting adults as long as each party is happy with the proceedings.

As said before .... each to their own.

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By *z ThongzWoman
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

I wonder what the term to use is then, if ur married and ur spouse doesnt know ur on a swinging site and unaware that ur sharing ur body with other people isnt that cheating , nothing to do with moral high ground surely its fact, marital infidelity is cheating.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

" So the long and short of it is that the vows don't matter if you're both in agreement, it doesnt matter how the situation came to light or who suggested it first and how or who brought it up. "

and again how much of the preceeding conversation have you actually listened to... it must be quite selective... people have giving you there defination of foresaking all others and yet you still haven't listened....

"if you fuck behind someone's back it's cheating no matter what! No exceptions! No excuses! "

cheating involves an amount of deception... so yes... for me... the dictionary term for cheating applies...

" Any lie is deception and is another form of cheating, again no matter what, no exceptions!"

if you want to take it at its most pedantic meaning then yes.... if you are then trying to use the arguement that all lies equal then you are seriously deluded...

there is a difference between having 3 pints in a pub and telling people you had 2....... and being cold and calclauted, coming onto a swinging website, and having sex behind the person they profess to "love more than any other in the world's" back

" Swingers always hold the moral high ground over others and therefor their opinions take precedence over others.

swingers are always tolerant."

swingers are tolerant, they are open to people and to other... do i think that having sex behind "the person who they profess to love more than any other in the world" back is swinging.... not really.....

"Well at least I now know what is expected...

Have I missed anything? lol"

yep... you glossed over everyone who's opinion disagreed with yours and tried to score cheap points over people you patently don't get along with......

"Teach me to ask a simple question!

see thats the problem... i don't think that was the intent at all.... i think it was an attempt to flamethrow a situation that has bubbled up more and more to the top over the last couple of weeks..... and you just wanted to get them to bite.....

and fairplay to a lot of people who have actually tried to turn it into a conversation and dispell a lot of the baiting that went into the OP..... but then you went to try and firebomb again....

......... just my own personal opinion... you're getting a kick out of winding people up....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" So the long and short of it is that the vows don't matter if you're both in agreement, it doesnt matter how the situation came to light or who suggested it first and how or who brought it up.

if you fuck behind someone's back it's cheating no matter what! No exceptions! No excuses!

cheating involves an amount of deception... so yes... for me... the dictionary term for cheating applies...

Any lie is deception and is another form of cheating, again no matter what, no exceptions!

if you want to take it at its most pedantic meaning then yes.... if you are then trying to use the arguement that all lies equal then you are seriously deluded...

Swingers always hold the moral high ground over others and therefor their opinions take precedence over others.

swingers are always tolerant.

Well at least I now know what is expected...

Have I missed anything? lol

yep... you glossed over everyone who's opinion disagreed with yours and tried to score cheap points over people you patently don't get along with......

Teach me to ask a simple question!

and fairplay to a lot of people who have actually tried to turn it into a conversation and dispell a lot of the baiting that went into the OP..... but then you went to try and firebomb again....

......... just my own personal opinion... you're getting a kick out of winding people up.... "

i think u r very rite and wish they would get so many that it would get pulled

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

maybe the OP and the other guys who have raised this 'deflection' issue of 'all cpl's' who swing are cheating also..

is founded on guilt for their own forsaking?

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

"maybe the OP and the other guys who have raised this 'deflection' issue of 'all cpl's' who swing are cheating also..

is founded on guilt for their own forsaking? "

ya think...

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"maybe the OP and the other guys who have raised this 'deflection' issue of 'all cpl's' who swing are cheating also..

is founded on guilt for their own forsaking?

ya think...

knew the half a day's tuition psychology diploma would come in handy one day..

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

No, but it can be interesting seeing how far they are prepared to take it.

And should you then criticise those who can't or won't tell their partner for what ever reason be that imoral in your eyes that they want extramarital sex with others and hopefully them

Good to see your usual form for insulting is still working well!!

Any time you can't win a debate or people don't follow your point of _iew you seem to find it necessary to insult..

So sad but expected.

I haven't actually given my point of _iew here just aired several preconceaved ive witnessed

You won't be privy to my personal _iews just my observations.

But please do tell how swinging works oh wise one, I'm sure many here will be only to happy to know the correct definition.

I take it that you've never ever deceived anyone about anything ever in your life?

Please share your secret on how to be perfect because I'm sure we would all benefit from your words of wisdom.

Jem said she felt sorry for you, that isn't an insult.....but your post is personal to this user and looks like this was the real reason you started the thread.

I think you have had lots of different _iews, many you have ignored, but all in all this has run it's course.

Please keep any personal issues away from the forum.

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