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Deception in the Steam room

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By *yphod OP   Man
over a year ago

London

Was at Rios a few weeks ago and a girl in a bikini walks into the steam room, but very very steamy so could not get a good look.

I was lying down and she sits at my feet and starts rubbing them. There is me thinking I'm in luck here, she then grabs my cock (she so far has not said a word). Of course I rise to the occation and ask if she wants to go to the rest room. Only as we leave do I realise it's a man.

So had to quickly withdraw my offer. Now I have nothing againsts TVs/CDs but I don't lean that way, but I did find it rather decieving and dishonest.

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By *te_correaMan
over a year ago

Great Harwood

Maybe she thought you knew she was a TV/TS?

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island

Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In what way was this “deception” though? A misunderstanding (on your part) maybe. But it doesn’t seem like deception.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth


"In what way was this “deception” though? A misunderstanding (on your part) maybe. But it doesn’t seem like deception. "

I think he's saying it was too steamy to be able to see properly. I don't really buy that, if you can't see what he/she looks like why would you wanna move to another room regardless

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By *yphod OP   Man
over a year ago

London

He had a feminine body but it was too steamy to see if there was a package.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"In what way was this “deception” though? A misunderstanding (on your part) maybe. But it doesn’t seem like deception.

I think he's saying it was too steamy to be able to see properly. I don't really buy that, if you can't see what he/she looks like why would you wanna move to another room regardless"

He called it deceiving and dishonest. I assume not blaming the steam.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault. "

Yeah good luck with that in a court of law

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By *eeliciouschaosWoman
over a year ago

Wherever


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault. "

Would it be the same if it was, in fact, a woman?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault. "

If it had been a woman would you be saying that?

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault.

If it had been a woman would you be saying that? "

Yes, sexual assault is sexual assault regardless of who perpetrates it. What an odd thing to say.

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

If she never said a word how did she tell you she was a woman ?

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

You thought it was a woman but discovered it wasn't. I don't know what the etiquette is in these cases. Personally I'd like to know but do we expect people to announce their gender? I don't know

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault.

If it had been a woman would you be saying that?

Yes, sexual assault is sexual assault regardless of who perpetrates it. What an odd thing to say. "

Not odd to ask a question. You’d be suprised at how a lot of men would answer that.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"If she never said a word how did she tell you she was a woman ?"

I think most of us are wired to assume that someone wearing a bikini is a woman, I'm not saying that's the right thing.

In certain circumstances would it cause offence to ask before any physical contact took place?

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

There was a thread last year about a glory hole where it was implied that the lady was sucking off cocks but it turned out to be the guy - all the straight people said it was assault, all the bi people said it wasn’t. This thread is going to go the same way.

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault.

If it had been a woman would you be saying that?

Yes, sexual assault is sexual assault regardless of who perpetrates it. What an odd thing to say.

Not odd to ask a question. You’d be suprised at how a lot of men would answer that. "

Well, firstly my apologies if I came across as blunt in my answer.

A lot of blokes would answer it differently because to stand up for what is truly right in this day & age is seen as "Weak" or "Gay" (I had it once described to me as exactly that)

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By *utterypopcornCouple
over a year ago

oxford

I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

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By *yphod OP   Man
over a year ago

London

With a glory hole part of the appeal is the unknown.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue?? "

That is dangerous ground - “she wasn’t assaulted because she had erected nipples” would not be a defence for the attacker.

Sexual assault is _any_ unwanted sexual touching - how the victims body responds is not relevant. Just as what the victim was (or wasn’t wearing) doesn’t come into it either.

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By *incsladyandscotsmanCouple
over a year ago

North fife

Deception in the steamroom, I've got "murder on the dance floor" in my head here....

Good old Sophie Ellis bexter, bet she would not think she would appear on fab.

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue?? "

This bothers me quite a bit, so a bloke gets an erection and that suddenly makes it ok?

Thousands of people can now get off free because a guy got an erection despite saying no?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Think I’ll be celibate. It’s easier.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

That is dangerous ground - “she wasn’t assaulted because she had erected nipples” would not be a defence for the attacker.

Sexual assault is _any_ unwanted sexual touching - how the victims body responds is not relevant. Just as what the victim was (or wasn’t wearing) doesn’t come into it either."

Totally get that.......but purely to play Devil's Advocate here, at the time the touching took place it wasn't unwanted and was, I assume, consented to. He even suggested they move somewhere more private to continue it. It was only after the touching took place that he decided he didn't want it anymore.

How it works with him having made the mistake of believing it was a woman touching him at the time however, I don't know. I'm torn on this one, I can see both sides

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By *yphod OP   Man
over a year ago

London

Note I am not screaming sexual assault.

Next time I will try and start of conversation before my cock gets grabbed.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault. "

Yep. Just imagine roles are reversed and it was a woman lying down.

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By *utterypopcornCouple
over a year ago

oxford


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

This bothers me quite a bit, so a bloke gets an erection and that suddenly makes it ok?

Thousands of people can now get off free because a guy got an erection despite saying no? "

I’m so sorry to have bothered you

I would think it would be very difficult for a man to get an erection if it was unwanted. And when he realised it was a man he did say no!!

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By *orks and Scots girlCouple
over a year ago

leeds

Seems a little bit like those click bait ads on Google…. Nobody would ever come on to someone without first asking..!

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

That is dangerous ground - “she wasn’t assaulted because she had erected nipples” would not be a defence for the attacker.

Sexual assault is _any_ unwanted sexual touching - how the victims body responds is not relevant. Just as what the victim was (or wasn’t wearing) doesn’t come into it either.

Totally get that.......but purely to play Devil's Advocate here, at the time the touching took place it wasn't unwanted and was, I assume, consented to. He even suggested they move somewhere more private to continue it. It was only after the touching took place that he decided he didn't want it anymore.

How it works with him having made the mistake of believing it was a woman touching him at the time however, I don't know. I'm torn on this one, I can see both sides"

Consent can be withdrawn at anytime, just because someone gives it at the start doesn't make it all ok after it's been withdrawn.

Ergo, if this were thrown infront of a judge, they'd rule pretty quickly that because consent was withdrawn (OP walked away after finding out), it's highly likely that, due to being unable to be see, consent wasn't given at the start.

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

They key part here is that the OP changed his mind and said no. And that no was respected.

If the T-girl in question had tried (or forced him) to keep going, *then* it would have become sexual assault. But she didn’t. So we’re all good and hopefully both parties learned from the experience so such awkwardness won’t be repeated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

That is dangerous ground - “she wasn’t assaulted because she had erected nipples” would not be a defence for the attacker.

Sexual assault is _any_ unwanted sexual touching - how the victims body responds is not relevant. Just as what the victim was (or wasn’t wearing) doesn’t come into it either."

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

This bothers me quite a bit, so a bloke gets an erection and that suddenly makes it ok?

Thousands of people can now get off free because a guy got an erection despite saying no?

I’m so sorry to have bothered you

I would think it would be very difficult for a man to get an erection if it was unwanted. And when he realised it was a man he did say no!! "

Isn't the point about consent? Regardless of how one's body reacts. Grabbing someones cock or slipping a finger in without consent?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

This bothers me quite a bit, so a bloke gets an erection and that suddenly makes it ok?

Thousands of people can now get off free because a guy got an erection despite saying no? "

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By *allySlinkyWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

But OP consented to the feet caressing and then accepted the cock touching without saying stop. He agreed to take things further. I personally don't think he can complain because she immediately stopped when he told her.

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

Another reason I wouldn't go to a club even if I had the opportunity is unsolicited touching by anyone regardless of gender.

The same applies to glory holes. Unless I specifically give someone permission to touch me it ain't happening just as I wouldn't make assumptions about a woman based solely on location.

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By *oreAgainForeverCouple
over a year ago

doncaster

It’s Not deceptive is it.. you assumed and assumed wrong

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Anyone who has ever been to Rios would surely be highly suspicious of a random woman instigating sexual advances with zero communication?

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

If you don't bother to find out who it is then buyer beware. It's your right to slow down or stop things at any point, which you did. You could have done that at any point earlier. From the sound of it they didn't just walk in and grab your cock by force, they made sure you were aware of them and that you gave tacit approval to them touching you.*

You were quite happy with the situation not knowing anything about the person, if the steam was that dense you didn't even know what they looked like. What would your reaction have been if when you got outside the steam room you found it was a woman but she was badly scarred or disfigured? Or that they, for whatever reason, were not going to allow P in V sex but only give you a blow job? Or only offer anal?

There is no prejudice in backing down from a sexual encounter at any point, if either person decides they just don't fancy the other. Regardless of genders involved. But don't make it about the other person, when it is in fact about your own personal preferences.

Chalk this one up to experience OP, next time take a look at the person if you think it will make some difference to the pleasure you receive. As it is, maybe you missed out on getting the best blow job that you would ever have in your life...

*Singular they/them. Perfectly grammatical within the context, it is in fact just the natural way of using the English language under any circumstance where you are unaware of the gender of the person being discussed. It's not Woke, it's English.

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By *oxy jWoman
over a year ago

taunton somerset

id be very concern about the consent part of this as the way its being told is sexual assault ...this lady walked in and never ask if he was interested that on its own is sexual assault no matter what the situation is or where ..

gets me when people say good luck with that in the eyes of the law as if the law wont apply ... it dont matter where you are in vanilla world or swinging world anyone not gaining consent is committing sexual assault and in the eyes of the law thats serious and the police will take it serious too ..

however like pretty much anything on these forums you either never get the full story or its jackanory porn edition time to say look at me ...

anyway no consent is always sexual assault no matter whom it is male / female / trans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Was at Rios a few weeks ago and a girl in a bikini walks into the steam room, but very very steamy so could not get a good look.

I was lying down and she sits at my feet and starts rubbing them. There is me thinking I'm in luck here, she then grabs my cock (she so far has not said a word). Of course I rise to the occation and ask if she wants to go to the rest room. Only as we leave do I realise it's a man.

So had to quickly withdraw my offer. Now I have nothing againsts TVs/CDs but I don't lean that way, but I did find it rather decieving and dishonest.

"

I agree you deceived them. Why didn't you tell them that you're straight? You wasted their time. Next time you should reveal your gender and sexuality before the person touches you. Be more honest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

That is dangerous ground - “she wasn’t assaulted because she had erected nipples” would not be a defence for the attacker.

Sexual assault is _any_ unwanted sexual touching - how the victims body responds is not relevant. Just as what the victim was (or wasn’t wearing) doesn’t come into it either.

Totally get that.......but purely to play Devil's Advocate here, at the time the touching took place it wasn't unwanted and was, I assume, consented to. He even suggested they move somewhere more private to continue it. It was only after the touching took place that he decided he didn't want it anymore.

How it works with him having made the mistake of believing it was a woman touching him at the time however, I don't know. I'm torn on this one, I can see both sides

Consent can be withdrawn at anytime, just because someone gives it at the start doesn't make it all ok after it's been withdrawn.

Ergo, if this were thrown infront of a judge, they'd rule pretty quickly that because consent was withdrawn (OP walked away after finding out), it's highly likely that, due to being unable to be see, consent wasn't given at the start. "

Yes, consent can be withdrawn at any time. And in this case, it appears that when consent was withdrawn that the other party respected that and stopped. So in this case, after consent was withdrawn there's nothing to "make ok" as you put it, as nothing happened after the consent was withdrawn.

As for the second part of your reply...the judge would also look at the fact that, whilst the contact was still happening, he wanted it to continue, but in different surroundings.

Like I said, I'm torn on this one. I wouldn't want to be on a jury trying to decide on this case

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

She backed off as soon as you changed your mind. I don't see the issue.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham


"If you don't bother to find out who it is then buyer beware. It's your right to slow down or stop things at any point, which you did. You could have done that at any point earlier. From the sound of it they didn't just walk in and grab your cock by force, they made sure you were aware of them and that you gave tacit approval to them touching you.*

You were quite happy with the situation not knowing anything about the person, if the steam was that dense you didn't even know what they looked like. What would your reaction have been if when you got outside the steam room you found it was a woman but she was badly scarred or disfigured? Or that they, for whatever reason, were not going to allow P in V sex but only give you a blow job? Or only offer anal?

There is no prejudice in backing down from a sexual encounter at any point, if either person decides they just don't fancy the other. Regardless of genders involved. But don't make it about the other person, when it is in fact about your own personal preferences.

Chalk this one up to experience OP, next time take a look at the person if you think it will make some difference to the pleasure you receive. As it is, maybe you missed out on getting the best blow job that you would ever have in your life...

*Singular they/them. Perfectly grammatical within the context, it is in fact just the natural way of using the English language under any circumstance where you are unaware of the gender of the person being discussed. It's not Woke, it's English."

“Buyer beware” and “chalk it up to experience” - seriously???

“It’s not assault your honour because I bought her a drink which she happily accepted and look at what she was wearing - she clearly was up for it. She should just get over it and stop crying.”

I thought we had moved on from that but I guess the 1970s still lives on.

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By *ocksareoffMan
over a year ago

Out n About


"Was at Rios a few weeks ago and a girl in a bikini walks into the steam room, but very very steamy so could not get a good look.

I was lying down and she sits at my feet and starts rubbing them. There is me thinking I'm in luck here, she then grabs my cock (she so far has not said a word). Of course I rise to the occation and ask if she wants to go to the rest room. Only as we leave do I realise it's a man.

So had to quickly withdraw my offer. Now I have nothing againsts TVs/CDs but I don't lean that way, but I did find it rather decieving and dishonest.

"

If the person in question never said a word then it's hardly deception.

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By *yphod OP   Man
over a year ago

London

I'm putting it down to a dark room experience, legs, arms, tits, cocks everywhere you never know who is going to grap you or who you are going to grab.

I've learnt from the experience.

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By *ustme34Man
over a year ago

Bradford


"Was at Rios a few weeks ago and a girl in a bikini walks into the steam room, but very very steamy so could not get a good look.

I was lying down and she sits at my feet and starts rubbing them. There is me thinking I'm in luck here, she then grabs my cock (she so far has not said a word). Of course I rise to the occation and ask if she wants to go to the rest room. Only as we leave do I realise it's a man.

So had to quickly withdraw my offer. Now I have nothing againsts TVs/CDs but I don't lean that way, but I did find it rather decieving and dishonest.

"
did you anounce you was male when you walked on ? Or when the other person walked in ? If not was you decieving them ?

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By *elix SightedMan
over a year ago

Cloud 8


"I'm putting it down to a dark room experience, legs, arms, tits, cocks everywhere you never know who is going to grap you or who you are going to grab.

I've learnt from the experience.

"

I’m glad you said this towards the end of the thread, because it’s what I was going to raise. People have been arguing the toss about sexual assault and consent etc, but aren’t the rules of any sexy sextime club “no touching before asking”?

I suspect that most clubs and most people in them would take the view (on first ‘offence’ only) that unwanted touching is dealt with by way of warning/ejection. Kind of like you’d do with someone stealing at work. In other words, in a club environment only, it would be unlikely (though not impossible and not unfairly) to make it as far as the police.

In my view, the toucher should have asked permission to touch, thus not contravening club rules which are there to prevent this kind of incident.

That all being said, the tacit allowing of touching to *continue* comes down to the OP to actually establish who is touching him! Surely everyone is well aware that TGirls attend clubs?

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"I would think the fact he got an erection from the touch would make any sexual assault charges difficult to pursue??

That is dangerous ground - “she wasn’t assaulted because she had erected nipples” would not be a defence for the attacker.

Sexual assault is _any_ unwanted sexual touching - how the victims body responds is not relevant. Just as what the victim was (or wasn’t wearing) doesn’t come into it either.

Totally get that.......but purely to play Devil's Advocate here, at the time the touching took place it wasn't unwanted and was, I assume, consented to. He even suggested they move somewhere more private to continue it. It was only after the touching took place that he decided he didn't want it anymore.

How it works with him having made the mistake of believing it was a woman touching him at the time however, I don't know. I'm torn on this one, I can see both sides"

He couldn’t!

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By *oulkissMan
over a year ago

Croydon


"But OP consented to the feet caressing and then accepted the cock touching without saying stop. He agreed to take things further. I personally don't think he can complain because she immediately stopped when he told her. "

It was not however, informed consent.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *oulkissMan
over a year ago

Croydon


"Anyone who has ever been to Rios would surely be highly suspicious of a random woman instigating sexual advances with zero communication?"

There are gay spas/saunas, Rios is not seen as one of these.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

All the people defending it. The hypocrisy is so strong. The assumption that a man is OK with another man sexually assaulting them just because there are a higher than average number of gay/bi guys on the fora. Don't lose sight of the fact straight guys outnumber gay or bi ones. To suggest the victim should have checked is outrageous

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How are you feeling about the incident OP?

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By *yphod OP   Man
over a year ago

London

How am I feeling about it?

It's a hard one. I don't feel violated as such, but had they spoken up when entering the steam room (I always say something anyway such as, "any room for a little one, or am I intruding") would have made me aware would have withdrawn my feet and it would not have gone any further, but yes I think they may have taken a bit of a liberty.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"How am I feeling about it?

It's a hard one. I don't feel violated as such, but had they spoken up when entering the steam room (I always say something anyway such as, "any room for a little one, or am I intruding") would have made me aware would have withdrawn my feet and it would not have gone any further, but yes I think they may have taken a bit of a liberty.

"

More than a bit of a liberty for sure. Been there know how you feel. Don’t know if talking about it on here has helped (the thread went off into a consent debate) but I do hope you don’t let it get to you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Op, when and how did you realise. I'm getting slightly confused.

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By *yphod OP   Man
over a year ago

London


"Op, when and how did you realise. I'm getting slightly confused. "

Leaving the steam room to head to the "rest rooms" and seeing their face. They had a very feminine body and a good boob job.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We would never touch without asking first and we definitely wouldn't expect to be touched without permission.. simple club rules as far as we're concerned.

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By *atfuckerbristolMan
over a year ago

Wells

The thread title sounds like an Agatha Christie novel!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Op, when and how did you realise. I'm getting slightly confused.

Leaving the steam room to head to the "rest rooms" and seeing their face. They had a very feminine body and a good boob job.

"
thx.

It creates an interesting debate of how much one needs to disclose to ensure consent is given eyes wide opened.

Should they have told you ? I'd say (probably) yes if it wasn't obvious. I'm more torn as you did realise without them telling you ... So it may have been fair to have believed you would have known before they made their move and your consent was given in full knowledge.

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By *ebootCouple
over a year ago

Telford

If I ask for a cup of tea with cows milk, and I’m given a cup of tea with soya milk without being told - then I’ve been deceived.

If I accept a cup of tea and I drink it without asking what’s it’s made with or what’s in it - then I guess that’s my fault?

Strange analogy I know - but I think that’s the only way I can get my head around it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Op, when and how did you realise. I'm getting slightly confused.

Leaving the steam room to head to the "rest rooms" and seeing their face. They had a very feminine body and a good boob job.

"

Did the person have a cock or just a masculine face?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is anyone going there tonight?

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Op, when and how did you realise. I'm getting slightly confused.

Leaving the steam room to head to the "rest rooms" and seeing their face. They had a very feminine body and a good boob job.

Did the person have a cock or just a masculine face? "

It was the Billy gibbons beard gave it away

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"Was at Rios a few weeks ago and a girl in a bikini walks into the steam room, but very very steamy so could not get a good look.

I was lying down and she sits at my feet and starts rubbing them. There is me thinking I'm in luck here, she then grabs my cock (she so far has not said a word). Of course I rise to the occation and ask if she wants to go to the rest room. Only as we leave do I realise it's a man.

So had to quickly withdraw my offer. Now I have nothing againsts TVs/CDs but I don't lean that way, but I did find it rather decieving and dishonest.

"

There seems to have been a lot of assumptions made here from the outset by both parties.

The OP saw someone in a Bikini and assumed it was a woman. Despite being unable to see clearly they were happy to have their feet and cock rubbed by someone that could have been any age between 18 and 99, someone they weren't at all attracted to and someone they hadn't spoken to at all to make basic conversation or enquire as to what their intentions were. All under the assumption that it may have lead to sex elsewhere.

The person in the Bikini made assumptions that the person whose feet and cock they were rubbing was consenting to physical contact and was either unaware or not bothered by the fact they weren't a woman. Until the point it apparently became obvious at which point all contact ceased and they parted ways.

Was there deception? Only if one party knew the other was aware they weren't female.

Was consent given? Verbally, apparently not. But the OP certainly appears not to have been bothered by physical contact initially.

It's 50/50 who's actually at fault here. Like a darkroom scenario where you have no idea who's touching who, or a gloryhole where you pop your knob through a hole and have no idea who's on the other side - male, female, TS/TS, straight, bi, gay, old, young, attractive or not.

If you choose to engage in physical contact in an environment where you can't be sure who the other party is then you're as responsible for what happens as they are. Likewise if you don't talk and give verbal consent after someone touches you and you don't ask them to stop, physically remove their hand or do anything to bring that contact to a halt then you can't really argue that you didn't consent - assuming of course that at any point that you do withdraw it (as in the case given here) they stop any contact immediately.

The key learn from this? Don't put yourself in a position where you can't make a rational and informed decision and give consent, either verbally or by some form of physical action - a nod of the head or you guiding their hand.

I'd be curious to know if the OP's reaction would have been any different had it in fact been a woman, but on leaving the steamy room he discovered a total lack of any attraction and desire to have any further physical attraction? Would people still be arguing over consent, deceit or potential assault?

A

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By *wabathMan
over a year ago

Bath

Would have gone with the flow

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By *harlieD69Man
over a year ago

Blackpool


"Was at Rios a few weeks ago and a girl in a bikini walks into the steam room, but very very steamy so could not get a good look.

I was lying down and she sits at my feet and starts rubbing them. There is me thinking I'm in luck here, she then grabs my cock (she so far has not said a word). Of course I rise to the occation and ask if she wants to go to the rest room. Only as we leave do I realise it's a man.

So had to quickly withdraw my offer. Now I have nothing againsts TVs/CDs but I don't lean that way, but I did find it rather decieving and dishonest.

There seems to have been a lot of assumptions made here from the outset by both parties.

The OP saw someone in a Bikini and assumed it was a woman. Despite being unable to see clearly they were happy to have their feet and cock rubbed by someone that could have been any age between 18 and 99, someone they weren't at all attracted to and someone they hadn't spoken to at all to make basic conversation or enquire as to what their intentions were. All under the assumption that it may have lead to sex elsewhere.

The person in the Bikini made assumptions that the person whose feet and cock they were rubbing was consenting to physical contact and was either unaware or not bothered by the fact they weren't a woman. Until the point it apparently became obvious at which point all contact ceased and they parted ways.

Was there deception? Only if one party knew the other was aware they weren't female.

Was consent given? Verbally, apparently not. But the OP certainly appears not to have been bothered by physical contact initially.

It's 50/50 who's actually at fault here. Like a darkroom scenario where you have no idea who's touching who, or a gloryhole where you pop your knob through a hole and have no idea who's on the other side - male, female, TS/TS, straight, bi, gay, old, young, attractive or not.

If you choose to engage in physical contact in an environment where you can't be sure who the other party is then you're as responsible for what happens as they are. Likewise if you don't talk and give verbal consent after someone touches you and you don't ask them to stop, physically remove their hand or do anything to bring that contact to a halt then you can't really argue that you didn't consent - assuming of course that at any point that you do withdraw it (as in the case given here) they stop any contact immediately.

The key learn from this? Don't put yourself in a position where you can't make a rational and informed decision and give consent, either verbally or by some form of physical action - a nod of the head or you guiding their hand.

I'd be curious to know if the OP's reaction would have been any different had it in fact been a woman, but on leaving the steamy room he discovered a total lack of any attraction and desire to have any further physical attraction? Would people still be arguing over consent, deceit or potential assault?

A"

Ffs

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Another factor would be whether it was reasonable for the OP to assume that it must be a woman and could not possibly be a cross-dresser or trans person. Rios is basically a naturist spa and sex club? I assume that unless it was advertised as a straight-only event, it would be reasonable to assume that gay and trans people might be there? It might even be that just walking through the spa area the OP would be aware that some trans people were present? And that if sex was happening, some of it might be gay sex? In fact it could even be the sort of venue (I'm not familiar with Rios myself) where the OP should assume a high likelihood of encountering trans people. And this person did not force themselves on the OP, by his own account they by gesture indicated that sex might be on offer, allowing at any moment for the OP to ask questions or decline.

If the OP has reason to believe he was indeed assaulted then he should being the matter to the attention of Rios management. I suspect though that if the description given of the incident is correct, the management's reply might be to tell him that giving willing consent without looking inside the package, then being allowed to change his mind when he did have a look, in no way comprises assault.

If you enter a sex club wanting sex, and you know there are gay and trans people at the club, and you accept an offer without even looking at the person giving the invite... If that person has given you plenty of opportunity to ask who they are, to look at them properly... OP, look at it as a learning experience. Learn to read the contract before signing it.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town


"Was at Rios a few weeks ago and a girl in a bikini walks into the steam room, but very very steamy so could not get a good look.

I was lying down and she sits at my feet and starts rubbing them. There is me thinking I'm in luck here, she then grabs my cock (she so far has not said a word). Of course I rise to the occation and ask if she wants to go to the rest room. Only as we leave do I realise it's a man.

So had to quickly withdraw my offer. Now I have nothing againsts TVs/CDs but I don't lean that way, but I did find it rather decieving and dishonest.

There seems to have been a lot of assumptions made here from the outset by both parties.

The OP saw someone in a Bikini and assumed it was a woman. Despite being unable to see clearly they were happy to have their feet and cock rubbed by someone that could have been any age between 18 and 99, someone they weren't at all attracted to and someone they hadn't spoken to at all to make basic conversation or enquire as to what their intentions were. All under the assumption that it may have lead to sex elsewhere.

The person in the Bikini made assumptions that the person whose feet and cock they were rubbing was consenting to physical contact and was either unaware or not bothered by the fact they weren't a woman. Until the point it apparently became obvious at which point all contact ceased and they parted ways.

Was there deception? Only if one party knew the other was aware they weren't female.

Was consent given? Verbally, apparently not. But the OP certainly appears not to have been bothered by physical contact initially.

It's 50/50 who's actually at fault here. Like a darkroom scenario where you have no idea who's touching who, or a gloryhole where you pop your knob through a hole and have no idea who's on the other side - male, female, TS/TS, straight, bi, gay, old, young, attractive or not.

If you choose to engage in physical contact in an environment where you can't be sure who the other party is then you're as responsible for what happens as they are. Likewise if you don't talk and give verbal consent after someone touches you and you don't ask them to stop, physically remove their hand or do anything to bring that contact to a halt then you can't really argue that you didn't consent - assuming of course that at any point that you do withdraw it (as in the case given here) they stop any contact immediately.

The key learn from this? Don't put yourself in a position where you can't make a rational and informed decision and give consent, either verbally or by some form of physical action - a nod of the head or you guiding their hand.

I'd be curious to know if the OP's reaction would have been any different had it in fact been a woman, but on leaving the steamy room he discovered a total lack of any attraction and desire to have any further physical attraction? Would people still be arguing over consent, deceit or potential assault?

A"

Or if the op had been a woman

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

Why not stop the person when they were playing with your feet, as you had the chance to stop or let them carry on at that time.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset


"Why not stop the person when they were playing with your feet, as you had the chance to stop or let them carry on at that time."

Because as he said in the original post - he thought his luck was in.

Despite not being able to see who was touching him.

A

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"They key part here is that the OP changed his mind and said no. And that no was respected.

If the T-girl in question had tried (or forced him) to keep going, *then* it would have become sexual assault. But she didn’t. So we’re all good and hopefully both parties learned from the experience so such awkwardness won’t be repeated."

This...

Mrs

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By *ildmanYorksMan
over a year ago

Doncaster & Bembridge

With regard to earlier comments as to whether a guy's erection counts as consent. A number of years ago I was a member of a local social group and we occasionally had people in to give talks at our weekly meetings. Once we had a copper from the vice squad. Talk got round to sexual assault. Two issues that were asked about were; can a husband r@pe his wife and can a woman r@pe a man.

In response to the first one, at the time legally it would not be considered r@pe as the act of marriage implied consent. The law has since changed.

The second question was also answered as not r@pe because a guy's erection was also implied consent. Again the law has now changed.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

In the unlikely event of any prosecution in a court of law the Crown would be expected to prove beyond reasonable doubt that there was any intent to deceive.

I've yet to be in any steam room where the conditions are such that I cannot make out the sex of others in the steam room, any defence lawyer worth his salt would rubbish the claims made by the Op.

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By *ommenhimCouple
over a year ago

wigan


"Sounds like sexual assault, if you couldn’t see nor consent, it’s 100% sexual assault. "

You may agree that the alleged ‘assault’ occurred at the touching of feet without consent, from there on in it appears that consent was implied as the OP didn’t move or ask not to be touched and by his own actions (as I read them) was not only consenting but also happy to follow to take it further. The deception is around a man presenting as a girl… conned no! Naive maybe!

Would it change the perceived assault if the male identified as a woman ?

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