FabSwingers.com forum: All men are born equal – until they join a swinging site!

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

In a world where people are meant to be like-minded and have an open mind towards the enjoyment of sex as a recreational activity, is there really a place for hierarchal snobbery?

Can one group of people (or individuals) really be justified in considering themselves ‘better’ than another person/people because of their status, the activities they choose or the label they give themselves?

May be the most popular misconception within the swinging scene is that people are like-minded or indeed truly open minded about recreational sex and the phrase ‘each to their own’ has a string of hidden clauses.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Snobbery is everywhere around us in one form or another, I have to admit that my passion for music does make me a bit of a music snob, the difference is I reorganise this and so try not to act on it too much.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I always thought being on a swinging site would bring open minded non judgemental and tolerant people.

Sadly this isn't the case and each to their own doesn't seem to come into it.

Us? we think barring kids or animals, whatever is horny for you and yours, is fine between consenting adults.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Snobbery is everywhere around us in one form or another, I have to admit that my passion for music does make me a bit of a music snob, the difference is I reorganise this and so try not to act on it too much.

Supposed to say recognise this, lol.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *ichNjudyCouple
over a year ago

stoke on trent

Hi Polo, how are you? long time since we chatted.

We're not really sure anyone thinks they are 'better' than anyone else here though some folks are quite vocal when defending their chosen activities, but that's just expressing an opinion isn't it? Which surely is everyones prerogative.

Don't think we noticed any 'heirarchal snobbery' after all this is just a loose collection of folks who are here voluntarily - we didn't even know there *was* a heirarchy as it isn't really in any form an 'organisation'

Could you give an example of what you mean to enlighten us, maybe from recent forum activity?

xxx

J&R

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *adchickCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

In a world where people are meant to be like-minded and have an open mind towards the enjoyment of sex as a recreational activity, is there really a place for hierarchal snobbery?

'each to their own' is fine, until you bring in morals and ethics.

Just because someone is a swinger, doesn't mean that they boot their moral code of conduct out of the door as soon as they log on!

To be honest, I think that without everyone's own moral code, swinging would be a bloody boring hobby

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

well i dont think you can have elitist attitudes in swinging ...we are all the same ....just have different preferences and perceptions of acceptable risk ohh and music ....i decided years ago the only measure of good music is how many people want to take it into there homes-cars-ipods etc

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Welcome to the real world

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I believe us all to be the same, but in my perception it would seem others have a different perception. lol.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i think some people take people having a diffrent view to them as snobbery and as hostial.

weither swingers or not people can still agree or not agree with somethings, all this does is show people have their own mind and are not sheep just to keep in with the 'in crowd'.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

hmmm i had a rethink on this and the answer to your first 2 questions is .no and no

the third wasn't a question more and observation ..which i can only respond to rather than answer ..As someone earlier in the thread said ..It is a non hierarchical environment on the boards and so preset common dominator as to what is acceptable in terms of moral code .

Its ok saying to...each there own...however ...such a hands off approach would therefor sanction messing with kids and animals.

Everyone as a different perception of what is acceptable and unacceptable ...for some its say cheating on a partner ...for some its excessive promiscuity...for some its single guys posting or even no pics its just opinions and beliefs bumping up against each other imho

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"...Don't think we noticed any 'heirarchal snobbery' after all this is just a loose collection of folks who are here voluntarily - we didn't even know there *was* a heirarchy as it isn't really in any form an 'organisation'..."

Whilst hierarchies frequently related to structures within organisations, organisational hierarchies are not the only kind. Think of hierarchies in the broader sense – for example social hierarchies.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

""...Don't think we noticed any 'heirarchal snobbery' after all this is just a loose collection of folks who are here voluntarily - we didn't even know there *was* a heirarchy as it isn't really in any form an 'organisation'..."

surely for that to be there or here it needs an apex for any kind of hierarchy surely.

The only apex there can be on here is maybe the moderators or perhaps the owners.

Anything else is public opinion without empowerment ???

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it hierarchical snobbery or simply opposing opinions that is causing some folk angst.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it hierarchical snobbery or simply opposing opinions that is causing some folk angst.

I have not a problem with opposing opinions, my only issue here is when I have expressed my opinion on me and my circumstance/possible circumstance I have been jumped on, I have not expressed I believe anyone's opinion is wrong, only what I would do/like to do, yet the response has been what could be considered any of the following, Snobbery, Cliquey, Clannish, Bullying, Bigotry or simply Very Closed minded, quite possibly the later, as it's a common misconception that if one swings then one is open minded,not quite, however this will all come down to perception, and as this is a forum it is often difficult to understand how things are truly meant and so many will assume one of the titles I mentioned are actually the meaning behind the post/poster.

With forums there is always a certain clique, of course those that are n the clique will not consider it that way, but it will come across on the forum that way.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

surely for that to be there or here it needs an apex for any kind of hierarchy surely.

The only apex there can be on here is maybe the moderators or perhaps the owners.

Anything else is public opinion without empowerment ??? "

The majority of social hierarchies are based purely on opinion and beliefs. The apex will vary from group to group (or individual to individual) depending on their opinion of what is 'better' and what is 'best' - rather than accepting something as just being different.

An example of a social hierarchy could be based on something as simple as the house you live in. If some people believe living in a mock-Tudor 4 bedroom detached makes them somehow superior to those living in a 3 bedroom 1950’s semi and the 1950’s semi is better than the 2 bedroom flats above the local shops. The hierarchy exists in the minds of those who perceive the occupiers of one dwelling to be superior to another… rather than thinking they are just different places to live.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"Is it hierarchical snobbery or simply opposing opinions that is causing some folk angst.

I am not sure about the 'angst' but I certainly understand the difference between differing opinions/personal choice/preferences and the perception of one preference/activity making someone ‘better/superior’ than another.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it hierarchical snobbery or simply opposing opinions that is causing some folk angst.

You could also spin that elitism banner round 180 degree's and it may have written on the back that their are a few individuals who do not react well to criticism?

Society in general, let alone this lifestyle is all about moral decisions and judgements an in the main most folk will sit on the centre ground.

If you step outside the lifestyle you see that demonstrated daily in every walk of life with everything from racism through to the play ground mentality of my gangs bigger than your gang.

Within the lifestyle there is a definite moral code that some, not all abide by which is no different to the vanilla world. If you are a single person on here and freely admit, which in itself is commendable, to playing away or playing with those who play away then you would have to be extremely naive to think you will not get a fair amount of criticism for it.

Put yourself in the canteen at work or in the pub with your close mates and you pipe up brazenly with the fact that you are currently involved with a married man/women. How many of your friends are going to pat you on the back and how many are going to think ummm that's not very nice. Now imagine how polarised it all becomes if you admit that you are doing this with a friends partner!

Adultery in any shape or form is not generally accepted in society and most folk will automatically empathise with the victim. There may well very extenuating circumstances but for most people there will always be a cheat and a victim in every scenario.

I am not sure why one poster felt the need to start a couple of threads in an act of self flagellation and then get a little miffed with the inevitable comments made and this thread seems to be in the same vein.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

@ 2 bonks . I think thats a well balanced and well put point of view which i agree with.

You will always get polarisation when discussing moral codes and values,or even life plans and life styles. It is i believe simply diversity of opinion.

Some people feel strongly on certain Issues, maybe through personal experience they feel empowered to be more vociferous in expressing that opinion. That doesn't make there opinion any more valid because thay are more forceful in expressing it ,quite the reverse as criticism like dogmatic or judgemental can be levied.

Surely the object of a "forum" is to be able to discuss and if possible sway opinion toward your point of view or take on board points of view which inform you of opposing views.

You can ultimately simply shrug ..and walk away ...how can it possibly have any effect to your life or lifestyle unless you want it to .

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

" ...

You seem to be focusing on adultery, which wasn’t really what I had in mind when asking the questions as it would be a pretty limited hierarchy (if one were to exist) - those who cheat and those who don’t… with may be those who play with cheats in the middle.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The only thing that I was surprised to come across in swinging was meeting people who have the "we're only fucking those people that are part of the beautiful brigade scene" attitude.

Have seen it quite a few times, and have removed ourselves from that environment.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

"The only thing that I was surprised to come across in swinging was meeting people who have the "we're only fucking those people that are part of the beautiful brigade scene" attitude.

Have seen it quite a few times, and have removed ourselves from that environment."

Could that just be preference to body type? Or was it expressed as a form of "we (the beautiful people) are better than them"?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Or was it expressed as a form of "we (the beautiful people) are better than them"?"

This way, it's a very snobby attitude that I really detest. I can't see the need for it. I've seen it at parties and it can really change the whole atmosphere.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a world where people are meant to be like-minded and have an open mind towards the enjoyment of sex as a recreational activity, is there really a place for hierarchal snobbery?

'each to their own' is fine, until you bring in morals and ethics.

Just because someone is a swinger, doesn't mean that they boot their moral code of conduct out of the door as soon as they log on!

To be honest, I think that without everyone's own moral code, swinging would be a bloody boring hobby"

Here Here !!!!

I'm with you on this. X;)

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" ...

I focused on it because the thread title sort of suggested it, the thread was conceived very shortly after a heated debate on the very subject was closed by the mods, from previous encounters I know this is a particular itch you can’t help but scratch at and you have yet to give us one clear example of this so called hierarchy.

The swinging community is simply a cross section of society who enjoy sex outside of the normal socially accepted constraints. We would all have to be as naive as a naïve thing on a naive day if we did not think that amongst us there were no liars, cheat, racists, bigots or even criminals, in fact pick any human frailty including paedophilia and I doubt very much that someone somewhere in the swinging community is not up to it. But these character traits, just as it is in the big wide world out there remain the traits of the minority with the majority of us conforming to society norms. It is therefore pretty disingenuous of some folk to think that the majority are somehow at fault because their normal moral code transports itself into their swinging lives, which appears to be the main thrust of this thread.

I firmly believe that in this lifestyle most folk are of a live and let live mindset on just about every subject. If you started threads on gangbangs, bukkake,watersports, BDSM etc, then apart from some folk simply saying yuck I would be very surprised to find anyone on a soap box condemning people as dirty filthy perverts. Non swinging folk may very well find those particular persuasions abhorrent but swingers by the very nature of our openness towards sex understand how some people like to enjoy those past times and as it’s all consensual it perfectly acceptable.

You may well be trying to suggest there is a wider issue with your opening post but you have given not one clear example of what it is that actually irks you. I frequent these forums regularly and amongst the usual good natured banter I have not noticed the intolerance you suggest but do admit that when fidelity and safe sex are discussed the heat really does get turned up. What I would also concede is that the majority of folk seem to be of the opinion that safe sex and fidelity are good things, whilst bareback and infidelity are bad things, but as society in general support those attitudes are swingers really being narrow minded or superior when making those judgement calls?

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *he_original_polo OP Woman
over a year ago

a Primark shoebox in Leicester

Ah I see where you are coming from. You read the title and filled in the rest with a fair amount of assumption rather than the actual questions being asked. May be my fault for using the word ‘site’ rather than ‘scene’ and working on the principle “All men are born equal” is not generally thought of as gender specific – men equalling mankind, the human race. Well at least some people saw the light-hearted humour of it.

The questions themselves do ask about people on the scene generally and the scene generally, which takes the question way beyond this one forum.

Of course there will be many opposing views non-sexually related subjects – we are not here because we share the same views on green issues, politics, religion, the economy and so on. We are all meant to be here because of a shared (like-minded) liberated attitude towards sex as a recreational activity. And even though on matters relating to sex we will all have our favourite ponds and oceans to float our boat on, we should be able to accept other people might like floating their boat on a different stretch of water. The questions ask is that always the case? And if it is not can it be justified?

You may not have encountered any lifestyle snobbery, but if you would like a couple of examples:

I have overheard people at a swinging club referring to a particular woman as a “slag” because “she’ll sleep with anyone” (I believe the phrase was) and the conversation went on to suggest their particular activities were much less sordid because they always socialised with the people they swung with. Why would people on the scene even have use for a derogatory name for people who have their own way of enjoying sex (without harming anyone) if ‘each to their own’ really was the case?

I have encountered a few couple who won’t associate with doggers because they feel it is the lowest form of depravity, along with a few disparaging and judgemental assumptions about the type of people who go dogging and what they get up to. Whilst we will all have preference and our own particular ‘cup of tea’ the term “each to their own” ceases to have meaning if comments go beyond “it’s just not for me/us”.

Then there is a post not far above where someone did respond to the theme of the questions; where they perceived they encountered body type preference taken to the extreme of snobbery/elitism.

Some may perceive your comment on singles being given restricted functionality on here as ‘couple status snobbery’ and may be reinforcing that when you talk about using single men as dildo’s at a swinging club. But then may be I am a tad hypocritical, as I asked the questions and yet state on my profile that I will not meet people who are happy to fuck sperm buckets.

As for what irks me… again there appears to be an assumption. The questions are as they are and people have either encountered a “we are better than you” attitude or they haven’t – either way opinions on the matter are welcome.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Can’t fault your analogies but have to say where you see snobbery, based on what you have written I can only see rudeness alongside some ill informed opinion, but as I was not present when these things were said I am not best placed to question your conclusion. If, as you say you accept that there will always be opposing views on non sexually related subject then maybe it’s a bit naïve of some folk to think there wont be differences of opinion on sexually related subjects? The swinging community is made up of a cross section of society and so inevitably there will be folk who display some of the foibles you quote but are they really being snobs or are they simply being bad mannered.

We are 51 and 49 and when we visit clubs we do so happy in the knowledge we are not going to appeal to everyone present. In the same way that I would not be comfy having sex with someone the same age as my daughter I am comfy with the notion most young people do not want sex with someone old enough to be their dad. Our profile clearly states that we are not looking for size 16 and up so when we see larger ladies at Chams we are simply not interested in having sex with them, I know the feeling may well be mutual but that does not alter our decision making process. More than happy to, and often do chat to anyone about anything but we are selective in who we wish to play with and we completely understand that the vast majority of people make the same selection choices all the time.

I do wonder if maybe the “pretty people” complaint is sometimes used by people who have rather unrealistic swinging ambitions. If you are a good looking, fit couple in your mid to late 30’s then because of the normal age ranges in the swinging world there is a better than likely chance you are going to tick most of the boxes for most people, a sweeping generalisation I know. If you are at either end of the age spectrum or you are BBW/BHM or bald or bearded or, being brutally honest you are pig ugly then your appeal in a club or a party scenario is more than likely going to diminish, if you can accept that and get past it you will probably end up having a good time anyway and if you cant then it’s almost certainly going to end in tears.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I do wonder if maybe the “pretty people” complaint is sometimes used by people who have rather unrealistic swinging ambitions. "

Most definitely not - I am very realistic in my expectations and am confident and also attract a lot of attention at clubs and parties.

I have been to parties where all it takes is a couple of couples to portray a snobbish attitude and look down at everyone else walking round in a state of undress, and it has been enough to ruin the atmosphere and put people off playing until those people are gone.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies but my comment was not aimed directly at you, it was simply a thought on this topic which has come up before.

We don't go to parties so cant comment on your experiences but when we go to clubs we are really only looking to play with specific people. Because of that most others are simply not on our radar so whatever they may be thinking, saying or doing simply passes us by..........or it could be that we are just a pair of old duffers and senility has finally kicked in

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *scariMan
over a year ago

Taunton

With forums there is always a certain clique, of course those that are n the clique will not consider it that way, but it will come across on the forum that way.

I couldn't agree more, which why i'm not a regular forum poster.

i have not experienced it here, but on other sites it is very much the case, it would seem if you don't post 50 times a day your opinion cannot be valid.

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

By *leasureDomeMan
over a year ago

all over the place

With forums there is always a certain clique, of course those that are n the clique will not consider it that way, but it will come across on the forum that way.

I couldn't agree more, which why i'm not a regular forum poster.

i have not experienced it here, but on other sites it is very much the case, it would seem if you don't post 50 times a day your opinion cannot be valid."

well i agree with you ...even the banter between the sexes is fairly good humoured and respectful ..sometimes you do get handbags at 10 paces ,but people feel passionately about some things ...and a forum is to discuss stuff and have fun ...

Reply privately

Reply in forum

Reply +quote

Post new Message to Thread