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Argument, please help

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

So the opposite side says this:

"Sex and having children are inextricably linked, so much so that even with birth control the underlying mental psychological connection is unavoidable. Therefore if I'm willing to have sex with you, I must first be willing to have a child with you, and if this is the case then any good willed person would surely want to a) choose the other potential parent carefully, and b) enter into some sort of commitment to the raising of the child. Ergo if I'm not willing to marry you and have children with you, then how could I want to have sex with you?"

What is your reasoned response???

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By *litterbabeWoman
over a year ago

hiding from cock pics.

My mind they are not connected. Even when I was trying to get pregnant it wasn't what was in my head at the time of the actual intercourse.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Also:

"If condoms and pills etc don't grow on trees, they clearly aren't natural and we are not designed to use them, so how can you say that nonmonogamy is more natural unless you really intend to have children with random people left right and centre?"

How do you respond??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not always linked.

Sex can be about pleasure,bonding it doesn’t always and only have to be about reproduction.

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By *offee with MilkCouple
over a year ago

Over the roundabout and then turn right.

I heard somewhere that humans and dolphins are the only species to have sex for fun.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


""If condoms and pills etc don't grow on trees, they clearly aren't natural and we are not designed to use them, so how can you say that nonmonogamy is more natural unless you really intend to have children with random people left right and centre?"

Well they're half right there, they aren't natural, but we weren't "designed" at all. The majority of animals are not monogamous, so I am unsure what they're arguing there to be honest. It does tie into their first argument though, the two are linked in a subconscious way I would say - the people you find attractive are potentially good parents for your offspring? We've come an awful long way since then though and sex is the best fun you can have for free . Are they religious OP? It sounds like it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also, what do they think about masturbation? I'd imagine they don't do it if sexual pleasure is only related to making babies.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Sex can and does have more than one purpose.

People have different attitudes to sex too.

If the original post is correct sex workers wouldn't exist.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Yes they are religious, eastern traditions (tantra and toaism), and oddly enough they do masturbate. They've learnt about sex being healing either alone or between two totally committed people who have secured boundaries around the couple.

It's been a fascinating conversation. e.g. has anyone else here ever cried after seeing their husbands sperm discarded in a condom and vowed never again to use them!?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I heard somewhere that humans and dolphins are the only species to have sex for fun. "

Chimpanzees have sex for fun too... perhaps that's where humans get it?

In response to the original post, sex is not inextricably linked to procreation; there are some animals that have sex for the pleasure of it. If it were just with the intention of getting pregnant, why is it that women can orgasm? It's not necessary at all for reproduction.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Yes they are religious, eastern traditions (tantra and toaism), and oddly enough they do masturbate. They've learnt about sex being healing either alone or between two totally committed people who have secured boundaries around the couple.

It's been a fascinating conversation. e.g. has anyone else here ever cried after seeing their husbands sperm discarded in a condom and vowed never again to use them!?

"

No. I was and am happy to have been able to limit our family to the number of children we could afford and that my body could cope with.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I doubt that early humans connected sex and pregnancy either. There would have been no obvious connection .

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!

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By *riefcase_WankerMan
over a year ago

Milton Keynes


"I heard somewhere that humans and dolphins are the only species to have sex for fun.

Chimpanzees have sex for fun too... perhaps that's where humans get it?

In response to the original post, sex is not inextricably linked to procreation; there are some animals that have sex for the pleasure of it. If it were just with the intention of getting pregnant, why is it that women can orgasm? It's not necessary at all for reproduction."

Yeah, isn't it bonobos that use sex very much as a social mechanism - as a way of greeting each other, as a way of bonding, as a way of ingratiating themselves within groups, as a way of avoiding conflict...

I can't remember if it was them as well (I think not, especially given the promiscuity of the species) but there was definitely some kind of monkey or chimp that researchers taught the concept of money to - they could 'earn' money by doing tasks (it wasn't actual money, but something used as currency) and then could spend that on food. Nicer food cost more money.

I think it was about a day after they grasped the concept that a bit monkey went up to a girl monkey and paid her for a quickie

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By *ddmanMan
over a year ago

Norwich

On one level she's right. The ancient part of of the brain mskes a cost benefit analysis about fitness regarding children. Commitment may be desirable if possible, but Marriage and a moral position is irrelevant.

Most organisms are ruled by insinct, one of which is the mating urge. They dont know *why* they find specimen A more attractive for sex over specimen B, nor that sex leads to offspring. They perform mating behaviour to satisfy the urge.

Humans can observe and connect the two. It may be wise for a person to scrutinise thier mate for modern child rearing, but modern lifestyles are out of sync with ancient urges. The bodies agenda is powerful - it *wants* to reproduce, regardless if your more complex needs. It's fun becuase it has to be a very powerful experience to make us do it.

1. People, especially young people in thier fertile prime, take risks to satisfy thier urges.

2. We have applied our intellect to reduce risks of life threatening pregnancy - it's very dangerous for humans to do.

3. Risks are now satisfactorily low that sex can be safely recreational.

4. Marriage (enforced commitment) is a cultural artefact that prevents the most attractive hogging all the sex they can. It's an artificial state that the body agenda doesn't know or care about.

5. Hidden fertility (which human female bodies employ) mean males cannot be certain when they are fertile. This permits the option for "oppornistic infidelity" resulting in a highly desirable male's offspring being raised by a successful, but less attractive one.

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By *ddmanMan
over a year ago

Norwich

My apologies. I made the assumption "she". Disregard my bias.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!

"

Why do you need to help her understand. If she has deeply held convictions and it sounds like she does I'm not interested in persuading her to change. I'm not necessarily right in my beliefs.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

More:

"Let's say birth control doesn't exist. Will you still be a swinger? What if you are and over the course of a year you get 12 women pregnant, how will that work??"

She's good at this...help

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!

"

Is it that you're trying to convince a female of your acquaintance to join this (mostly) happy bunch of swingers?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!

Is it that you're trying to convince a female of your acquaintance to join this (mostly) happy bunch of swingers?"

No, she's an old friend who was telling me about her new found love of tantra and so I told her about my views on sex. It's turned into quite the debate. Wouldn't it be funny though if she did join.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"More:

"Let's say birth control doesn't exist. Will you still be a swinger? What if you are and over the course of a year you get 12 women pregnant, how will that work??"

She's good at this...help"

But contraception does exist. That isn't a useful argument

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"More:

"Let's say birth control doesn't exist. Will you still be a swinger? What if you are and over the course of a year you get 12 women pregnant, how will that work??"

She's good at this...help

But contraception does exist. That isn't a useful argument"

Well the debate has rather become framed in what is most natural for humans Vs what is a cultural demand. So in that context it's pursuasive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!

Is it that you're trying to convince a female of your acquaintance to join this (mostly) happy bunch of swingers?

No, she's an old friend who was telling me about her new found love of tantra and so I told her about my views on sex. It's turned into quite the debate. Wouldn't it be funny though if she did join.

"

Okey doke. Well, I my view is that humans have sex for one reason only - for the benefit that it can bring them personally. Whether that's pleasure, to procreate, to mollify another, for "soul-searching" or any reason you can think of. Maybe think of sex as a "medicine" that can cure your ills. Some people need a stronger dose than others (not that kind of "dose").

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would say it is not natural for humans to be monogamous, wanting to keep the best mate for yourself perhaps is. The contraceptive argument is also more complex than that, not every time you have sex will you conceive.

As nice couple has pointed out though, just because we agree with your viewpoint it doesn't necessarily make it the correct one.

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By *ddmanMan
over a year ago

Norwich

For the vast amount of our history it was "natural" for human females to be pregnant for most of thier fertile lives and helping raise children after menopause. I'd suggest men being larger and stronger than women might have unpleasent but brutally practical applications in this area.

As for menopause, we, orca and (i recall) blue whales are the only mammals whose children benefit from menopausal grandmother's assistance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 13/08/18 21:06:13]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the opposite side says this:

"Sex and having children are inextricably linked, so much so that even with birth control the underlying mental psychological connection is unavoidable. Therefore if I'm willing to have sex with you, I must first be willing to have a child with you, and if this is the case then any good willed person would surely want to a) choose the other potential parent carefully, and b) enter into some sort of commitment to the raising of the child. Ergo if I'm not willing to marry you and have children with you, then how could I want to have sex with you?"

What is your reasoned response???"

But O.P, you're bisexual.. Please explain how that theory works when you want to get sexually balls deep in a mans bottom, knowing that no child can be created, only the possibility of bum grapes and the shits!

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By *ddmanMan
over a year ago

Norwich

Humans do strange things to satisfy thier urges - turns out its fun to get off together and a) some humans realised prostate prodding feels sooo good b) other humans enjoy helping those humans feel good, especially if they get some tight sensations at the same time.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"So the opposite side says this:

"Sex and having children are inextricably linked, so much so that even with birth control the underlying mental psychological connection is unavoidable. Therefore if I'm willing to have sex with you, I must first be willing to have a child with you, and if this is the case then any good willed person would surely want to a) choose the other potential parent carefully, and b) enter into some sort of commitment to the raising of the child. Ergo if I'm not willing to marry you and have children with you, then how could I want to have sex with you?"

What is your reasoned response???

But O.P, you're bisexual.. Please explain how that theory works when you want to get sexually balls deep in a mans bottom, knowing that no child can be created, only the possibility of bum grapes and the shits! "

Yes I am definitely of the opinion that physical and sexual intimacy have other personal, social and cultural functions. Ethics and morals are time and place sensitive with the only failure being a failure to love (which is not a feeling but a decision to meet some need of another).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'd tell them to sod off. . We are one of the few animals that has sex for recreation not just procreation

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I couldn't possibly afford to bring up thousands of children.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex


"More:

"Let's say birth control doesn't exist. Will you still be a swinger? What if you are and over the course of a year you get 12 women pregnant, how will that work??"

She's good at this...help

But contraception does exist. That isn't a useful argument

Well the debate has rather become framed in what is most natural for humans Vs what is a cultural demand. So in that context it's pursuasive.

"

I don't think its any longer possible to know what's natural for humans.

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By *roticGoddessXXWoman
over a year ago

Richmond


"Also:

"If condoms and pills etc don't grow on trees, they clearly aren't natural and we are not designed to use them, so how can you say that nonmonogamy is more natural unless you really intend to have children with random people left right and centre?"

How do you respond??"

Another response would be: If we were only meant to have sex to procreate, we would have cycles of mating seasons that corresponded only to when we are fertile.

There's so much more to sex than a resulting child.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the opposite side says this:

"Sex and having children are inextricably linked, so much so that even with birth control the underlying mental psychological connection is unavoidable. Therefore if I'm willing to have sex with you, I must first be willing to have a child with you, and if this is the case then any good willed person would surely want to a) choose the other potential parent carefully, and b) enter into some sort of commitment to the raising of the child. Ergo if I'm not willing to marry you and have children with you, then how could I want to have sex with you?"

What is your reasoned response???"
that sex can only be directly linked to child birth

a) If the woman is ovulating and the man was wearing a durex condom with a specific batch number that split during the process and he cum or

b) sex was had but it was two men and child birth obviously wouldn't be resultant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"So the opposite side says this:

"Sex and having children are inextricably linked, so much so that even with birth control the underlying mental psychological connection is unavoidable. Therefore if I'm willing to have sex with you, I must first be willing to have a child with you, and if this is the case then any good willed person would surely want to a) choose the other potential parent carefully, and b) enter into some sort of commitment to the raising of the child. Ergo if I'm not willing to marry you and have children with you, then how could I want to have sex with you?"

What is your reasoned response???"
that sex can only be directly linked to child birth

a) If the woman is ovulating and the man was wearing a durex condom with a specific batch number that split during the process and he cum or

b) sex was had but it was two men and child birth obviously wouldn't be resultant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For the vast amount of our history it was "natural" for human females to be pregnant for most of thier fertile lives and helping raise children after menopause. I'd suggest men being larger and stronger than women might have unpleasent but brutally practical applications in this area.

As for menopause, we, orca and (i recall) blue whales are the only mammals whose children benefit from menopausal grandmother's assistance."

Historically reproductive life cycle was significantly shorter then the modern one, as well as the life span of a woman. Menstrual cycles weren’t monthly either. On average women would have a child every five years as she went through the conceive to weaning cycle. So sex could and would continue with the low risk.

Even now the chances of conceiving from regular sex over a year isn’t as high as people think (google it).

Sex is a basic desire but is also essential to connect people - for whatever reason that may be. Lots of research on the health benefits too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Also:

"If condoms and pills etc don't grow on trees, they clearly aren't natural and we are not designed to use them, so how can you say that nonmonogamy is more natural unless you really intend to have children with random people left right and centre?"

How do you respond??

Another response would be: If we were only meant to have sex to procreate, we would have cycles of mating seasons that corresponded only to when we are fertile.

There's so much more to sex than a resulting child."

Interestingly a research project found that strippers earned more money when they ovulated then the rest of the month!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not always linked.

Sex can be about pleasure,bonding it doesn’t always and only have to be about reproduction. "

Sex isn't about penetrative intercourse

Sex is kisses

Its cuddling

Its foreplay

Its toys

Plenty of places to cum other than for impregnating every woman you fuck bareback.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"On average women would have a child every five years as she went through the conceive to weaning cycle. So sex could and would continue with the low risk.

Even now the chances of conceiving from regular sex over a year isn’t as high as people think (google it). "

Solely breastfeeding also works as a natural contraceptive.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Not always linked.

Sex can be about pleasure,bonding it doesn’t always and only have to be about reproduction.

Sex isn't about penetrative intercourse

Sex is kisses

Its cuddling

Its foreplay

Its toys

Plenty of places to cum other than for impregnating every woman you fuck bareback. "

Yes! this!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Not always linked.

Sex can be about pleasure,bonding it doesn’t always and only have to be about reproduction.

Sex isn't about penetrative intercourse

Sex is kisses

Its cuddling

Its foreplay

Its toys

Plenty of places to cum other than for impregnating every woman you fuck bareback.

Yes! this!"

Use the natural cycle to protect against pregnancy too

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"For the vast amount of our history it was "natural" for human females to be pregnant for most of thier fertile lives and helping raise children after menopause. I'd suggest men being larger and stronger than women might have unpleasent but brutally practical applications in this area.

As for menopause, we, orca and (i recall) blue whales are the only mammals whose children benefit from menopausal grandmother's assistance.

Historically reproductive life cycle was significantly shorter then the modern one, as well as the life span of a woman. Menstrual cycles weren’t monthly either. On average women would have a child every five years as she went through the conceive to weaning cycle. So sex could and would continue with the low risk.

Even now the chances of conceiving from regular sex over a year isn’t as high as people think (google it).

Sex is a basic desire but is also essential to connect people - for whatever reason that may be. Lots of research on the health benefits too "

Menstrual cycles are surely linked to the new moon? No?

Don't you all go together to a red tent / moon lodge?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Not always linked.

Sex can be about pleasure,bonding it doesn’t always and only have to be about reproduction.

Sex isn't about penetrative intercourse

Sex is kisses

Its cuddling

Its foreplay

Its toys

Plenty of places to cum other than for impregnating every woman you fuck bareback.

Yes! this!

Use the natural cycle to protect against pregnancy too "

Indeed, Dr Billings et al

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"For the vast amount of our history it was "natural" for human females to be pregnant for most of thier fertile lives and helping raise children after menopause. I'd suggest men being larger and stronger than women might have unpleasent but brutally practical applications in this area.

As for menopause, we, orca and (i recall) blue whales are the only mammals whose children benefit from menopausal grandmother's assistance.

Historically reproductive life cycle was significantly shorter then the modern one, as well as the life span of a woman. Menstrual cycles weren’t monthly either. On average women would have a child every five years as she went through the conceive to weaning cycle. So sex could and would continue with the low risk.

Even now the chances of conceiving from regular sex over a year isn’t as high as people think (google it).

Sex is a basic desire but is also essential to connect people - for whatever reason that may be. Lots of research on the health benefits too

Menstrual cycles are surely linked to the new moon? No?

Don't you all go together to a red tent / moon lodge?"

Yes we howl away and flog ourselves through the sin of bleeding

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"For the vast amount of our history it was "natural" for human females to be pregnant for most of thier fertile lives and helping raise children after menopause. I'd suggest men being larger and stronger than women might have unpleasent but brutally practical applications in this area.

As for menopause, we, orca and (i recall) blue whales are the only mammals whose children benefit from menopausal grandmother's assistance.

Historically reproductive life cycle was significantly shorter then the modern one, as well as the life span of a woman. Menstrual cycles weren’t monthly either. On average women would have a child every five years as she went through the conceive to weaning cycle. So sex could and would continue with the low risk.

Even now the chances of conceiving from regular sex over a year isn’t as high as people think (google it).

Sex is a basic desire but is also essential to connect people - for whatever reason that may be. Lots of research on the health benefits too

Menstrual cycles are surely linked to the new moon? No?

Don't you all go together to a red tent / moon lodge?

Yes we howl away and flog ourselves through the sin of bleeding "

Oh no no I was sure you collect the blood in chalices and perform ritual internments

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!"

I was with you up to this point. People on here just want to fuck around. There is no braveness nor any ideology. They just want to shag because they like fucking. Some maybe don't want to get tied down. Some maybe are in limbo between relationships and just having fun. Others may find it impossible to find a date so just enjoy meeting their physical needs instead. It's a right mixed bag in here and you're as unlikely to win an argument on anything by referencing the people on here as you are likely to be able to convincingly represent them all in any argument.

Given this, you just have to step away from the ideological posturing imo and just feel what feels right to you. To me it seems clear that a key impulse, when you are attracted to a person (and we are all clearly attracted to many people), is to fuck them. However, upon closer inspection this drive towards intimacy comes with some major clauses. You'd like them to be into you. And you want them to be a nice person too. You don't want any lies. You don't want any fakeness. You actually would like to have an authentic connection. The deeper down the rabbit hole you go, I feel the clearer it becomes that the real drive behind attraction is not to fall in lust but to be totally absorbed into that other person 100%... to go beyond mere sex and fall into love. This, to me, feels true.

What bearing does that have on your debate? It suggests that there are elements of both of your arguments which are right. That the thirst we have when we are attracted to others is something unquenchable unless we commit to a profound course of action that may lead to marriage and monogamy. So our desire is a paradox. Illogical. Seld-undermining.

Just some thoughts

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!

I was with you up to this point. People on here just want to fuck around. There is no braveness nor any ideology. They just want to shag because they like fucking. Some maybe don't want to get tied down. Some maybe are in limbo between relationships and just having fun. Others may find it impossible to find a date so just enjoy meeting their physical needs instead. It's a right mixed bag in here and you're as unlikely to win an argument on anything by referencing the people on here as you are likely to be able to convincingly represent them all in any argument.

Given this, you just have to step away from the ideological posturing imo and just feel what feels right to you. To me it seems clear that a key impulse, when you are attracted to a person (and we are all clearly attracted to many people), is to fuck them. However, upon closer inspection this drive towards intimacy comes with some major clauses. You'd like them to be into you. And you want them to be a nice person too. You don't want any lies. You don't want any fakeness. You actually would like to have an authentic connection. The deeper down the rabbit hole you go, I feel the clearer it becomes that the real drive behind attraction is not to fall in lust but to be totally absorbed into that other person 100%... to go beyond mere sex and fall into love. This, to me, feels true.

What bearing does that have on your debate? It suggests that there are elements of both of your arguments which are right. That the thirst we have when we are attracted to others is something unquenchable unless we commit to a profound course of action that may lead to marriage and monogamy. So our desire is a paradox. Illogical. Seld-undermining.

Just some thoughts "

Wow dude that was inspired (and props you're reading rumi in your pic)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"What is your reasoned response???"

That is her choice, it’s one that has kept people safe for years (monogamous couples are less likely to spread disease, let alone fool around with our social construct). Given the contraception and other alternatives exist it is not unreasonable to not want a child with your partner. Children are capable of giving birth as early as 11, but it is extremely dangerous and can kill them... just because they can doesn’t mean they should. On the flip side, if sex was all about procreation then there is no reason for women to enjoy it.

The biological points appear to have been listed but you’re having a philosophical debate however so does a “right” answer exist?

What it comes down to is personal preference and choice, which we are happily entitled to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Really appreciate the thoughtful responses, keep emailing coming. I'd really like to help this woman understand that the non-monogamous community are (bravely in my opinion) rejecting fear-based cultural demands in favour of getting in tune with human nature and instinct. We don't want barriers and boundaries where there is no danger and we don't take an abundant world and make it scarce by possessive jealousy.

Please help me with your experience!

I was with you up to this point. People on here just want to fuck around. There is no braveness nor any ideology. They just want to shag because they like fucking. Some maybe don't want to get tied down. Some maybe are in limbo between relationships and just having fun. Others may find it impossible to find a date so just enjoy meeting their physical needs instead. It's a right mixed bag in here and you're as unlikely to win an argument on anything by referencing the people on here as you are likely to be able to convincingly represent them all in any argument.

Given this, you just have to step away from the ideological posturing imo and just feel what feels right to you. To me it seems clear that a key impulse, when you are attracted to a person (and we are all clearly attracted to many people), is to fuck them. However, upon closer inspection this drive towards intimacy comes with some major clauses. You'd like them to be into you. And you want them to be a nice person too. You don't want any lies. You don't want any fakeness. You actually would like to have an authentic connection. The deeper down the rabbit hole you go, I feel the clearer it becomes that the real drive behind attraction is not to fall in lust but to be totally absorbed into that other person 100%... to go beyond mere sex and fall into love. This, to me, feels true.

What bearing does that have on your debate? It suggests that there are elements of both of your arguments which are right. That the thirst we have when we are attracted to others is something unquenchable unless we commit to a profound course of action that may lead to marriage and monogamy. So our desire is a paradox. Illogical. Seld-undermining.

Just some thoughts

Wow dude that was inspired (and props you're reading rumi in your pic)"

Shh nobody else round here knows how Rumi relates. To them it's just some book I'm hiding behind

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By *hubnwife_36dd_ukCouple
over a year ago

chester


"So the opposite side says this:

"Sex and having children are inextricably linked, so much so that even with birth control the underlying mental psychological connection is unavoidable. Therefore if I'm willing to have sex with you, I must first be willing to have a child with you, and if this is the case then any good willed person would surely want to a) choose the other potential parent carefully, and b) enter into some sort of commitment to the raising of the child. Ergo if I'm not willing to marry you and have children with you, then how could I want to have sex with you?"

What is your reasoned response???"

Ask them if they are doing a thesis for Sidney Uni?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"So the opposite side says this:

"Sex and having children are inextricably linked, so much so that even with birth control the underlying mental psychological connection is unavoidable. Therefore if I'm willing to have sex with you, I must first be willing to have a child with you, and if this is the case then any good willed person would surely want to a) choose the other potential parent carefully, and b) enter into some sort of commitment to the raising of the child. Ergo if I'm not willing to marry you and have children with you, then how could I want to have sex with you?"

What is your reasoned response???

Ask them if they are doing a thesis for Sidney Uni?"

Hahaha this is an old friend. Don't panic.

Although I'd be interested in reading it if she did!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Shh nobody else round here knows how Rumi relates. To them it's just some book I'm hiding behind "

Your legs are reedy? We’re listening to your tale ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

Shh nobody else round here knows how Rumi relates. To them it's just some book I'm hiding behind

Your legs are reedy? We’re listening to your tale ??"

Wtf Are you a cryptic crossword conjuror? Reedy legs? Do you want to try blowing a tune through them? Haha

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf Are you a cryptic crossword conjuror? Reedy legs? Do you want to try blowing a tune through them? Haha "

Yes... or I’m just referencing the first line of one of his works...? Attempt at humour, fail...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf Are you a cryptic crossword conjuror? Reedy legs? Do you want to try blowing a tune through them? Haha

Yes... or I’m just referencing the first line of one of his works...? Attempt at humour, fail... "

Awww that's really cute of you xxx So many poems. I only know a few but love diving into them. Probably the most atropos for here is...

"When you see the lovers

don't pass them by,

sit with them.

The fire of Love warms the world,

but even fire dies

in the company of ashes"

xxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Wtf Are you a cryptic crossword conjuror? Reedy legs? Do you want to try blowing a tune through them? Haha

Yes... or I’m just referencing the first line of one of his works...? Attempt at humour, fail...

Awww that's really cute of you xxx So many poems. I only know a few but love diving into them. Probably the most atropos for here is...

"When you see the lovers

don't pass them by,

sit with them.

The fire of Love warms the world,

but even fire dies

in the company of ashes"

xxx "

Beautiful and depressing. OP, read that to her

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By *bonynivoryCouple
over a year ago

market harborough


"Yes they are religious, eastern traditions (tantra and toaism), and oddly enough they do masturbate. They've learnt about sex being healing either alone or between two totally committed people who have secured boundaries around the couple.

It's been a fascinating conversation. e.g. has anyone else here ever cried after seeing their husbands sperm discarded in a condom and vowed never again to use them!?

"

Oh yes, when I realised KFC was shut and a potential warm tasty snack had been allowed to go cold, I never waste that snack opportunity any more, it was awful, and I was hungry all night.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

This is nonsense - human evolution over the last tens of thousands of years has resulted in substantial changes to the human brain. Whilst we have instinct, our minds deliver substantially more than sex being only for reproduction with a fully matched mate.

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