FabSwingers.com forum: Being sacked from job for swinging

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Seen quite a few posts on the forums saying people would be sacked if their employer found out they were swingers. Reason would be bringing the company into disrepute apparently.

We would disagree due to Human Rights Act 1998 but we’re not experts. However, imagine a straight or gay single person has a threesome in private after visiting a nightclub. Not illegal. Their own decision on their own time. Going to a sex/swingers club isn’t illegal either.

Anyone know enough to settle this once and for all. Can you be sacked for being a swinger ?

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By *eardsandboobsCouple
over a year ago

north of lincoln

dont think swinging would get you the sack unless something you did meant your work was involved , like working in the police and having a picture of you in your uniform on here.

Could possibly be sacked for having naked photos out in the open if you have a public job like an mp or council boss.

But generally being a swinger is not a sackable offence .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive retired now but i know as a nurse i could have been sacked for bringing the profession into disrepute

So glad im not there anymore

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

plenty of contracts have clauses mentioning bringing the company/agency etc into disrepute..which can be interpreted in many different ways..i would think anyone who has reason to think they risk their job will be aware of it. otherwise, i doubt an employer would have much grounds to use it as a reason for sacking someone alone, as you say..nothing illegal about it..

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Ive retired now but i know as a nurse i could have been sacked for bringing the profession into disrepute

So glad im not there anymore"

In what way would it bring the profession into disrepute? Anymore than a nurse having sex with two different guys over a weekend or having an affair. Can a nurse be sacked for having an affair if they are married ?

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By *eardsandboobsCouple
over a year ago

north of lincoln

The way we see it is swinging is a sexual fetish in that swapping partners and having group sex is what turns you on. Could you be sacked for doing bdsm or for liking wax poured on you or for wanting to wear nappies at the weekend ? I would find it very difficult to believe that unless it impacted your job or made the company look bad that you would be fired.

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By *os19Man
over a year ago

Edmonton

As a civil servant basic administrative I don't think I could be sacked but with government cut backs I don't know

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By *ojos party boyMan
over a year ago

Merseyside

"dont think swinging would get you the sack unless something you did meant your work was involved , like working in the police and having a picture of you in your uniform on here.

Could possibly be sacked for having naked photos out in the open if you have a public job like an mp or council boss.

But generally being a swinger is not a sackable offence .

I Think uniform or taking photos in the workplace is a sack-able offense?

I think those involved in law might have issues if mentioned during a case etc?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Probably only get you sacked if your boss wanted to be involved and was turned down other than that it has nothing to do with anyone what you do outside of work hours

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We were having this discussion on the scotland forum the other day and its one of these scare stories people share... even people saying it means you wouldnt be able to get a disclosure which is total nonsense as there is nothibg illegal about having multiple sexual partners

If you involve your work in any way (uniform in pictures, using work computer on the website, meeting on work trips/ property/ in work time) then yeah you could be sacked for bringing the company into disrepute or gross misconduct

But not if you just happen to be a swinger on your own personal time and keep work separate

If you hold a public office or work in a school there is a high chance you would pressured out of your job but that is not the same as a company legally being allowed to terminate you

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By *urvymamaWoman
over a year ago

Doncaster

As long as you’re not deemed to be bringing your profession into disrepute you can’t be sacked for swinging

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I could only imagine a company using it if they really wanted to.get rid of an employee.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I brought up my lifestyle and my membership of Xtasia and fabswingers at interview. Covers all the bases and means it can’t ever be used against me....

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By *urvymamaWoman
over a year ago

Doncaster

"I could only imagine a company using it if they really wanted to.get rid of an employee. "

They can’t unless that employee as related it too their work in anyway and therefore deemed as bring the company into disrepute

The employee would have more legal rights for unfair dismissal otherwise

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By *hubnwife_36dd_ukCouple
over a year ago

chester

Why is it that wnenever anyone poses a question which in the end involves a legal position that nobody asks the legal folk? There must be one or two who are also swingers surely?

All the opinion, all the "I think or I don't think", "my mate knows someone who said/did/experienced this that or the other" isn't worth diddly squat if the law has already taken a position on these matters.

Citing "It infringes my human rights" is worthless unless there is already precedent or you're prepared to be a test case.

Best advice is if in doubt don't wake the beast of adverse publicity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We were having this discussion on the scotland forum the other day and its one of these scare stories people share... even people saying it means you wouldnt be able to get a disclosure which is total nonsense as there is nothibg illegal about having multiple sexual partners

But not if you just happen to be a swinger on your own personal time and keep work separate

If you hold a public office or work in a school there is a high chance you would pressured out of your job but that is not the same as a company legally being allowed to terminate you "

or have sex outside in public places...I'd never admit nor deny, nor be likely to show such pics.

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By *esparate danMan
over a year ago

glasgow

My wife got the sack

Another mans ballsack that is

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As has already been mentioned, many employment contracts have clauses that would allow employers to dismiss if they had cause to believe they would be percieved negatively because of your behaviour.

In the real world, the gossiping and lack of acceptance often not to your face, will damage your employers perception of you as an employee and there are plenty of ways they can get rid of you at that point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

BBC have got away with worse and haven't been sacked so should be ok

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would think that the key issue is to ensure that you keep your private life entirely separate from your public one . Avoid posting face photos on public sites and do not tell other swingers where you work.

You would only face having your employment terminated if you took part in activities that could link your private life to your employer. That might include taking photos at your workplace or accessing sites such as this via a works lap top or mobile phone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Lots of job contracts have either morals clauses or bringing the company into disrepute clauses.

Some even own anything you may create seperate from your job. Especially in the tech sector.

It's not the act of swinging that gets you sacked. It's breach of contract...ie getting found out and it being put in the public domain.

That's sufficient to trigger such clauses in any contract not just job contracts. Bye bye job career home mortgage etc etc ....

Until the internet search done by recruitment consultants forgets you exist!

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By *ynecplCouple
over a year ago

Newcastle upon Tyne

The key is not to mix work and swinging.

If you say who you work for on the Fab then you are linking the company to swinging and could be disciplined. A company has to think about its image and anything that could potentially cause damage to its reputation could result in a person being sacked.

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By *eardsandboobsCouple
over a year ago

north of lincoln

"Why is it that wnenever anyone poses a question which in the end involves a legal position that nobody asks the legal folk? There must be one or two who are also swingers surely?

Citing "It infringes my human rights" is worthless unless there is already precedent or you're prepared to be a test case.

Best advice is if in doubt don't wake the beast of adverse publicity.

When you google sacked for swinging there is no reference to any case where someone has been sacked for swinging . But there have been people sacked for posting naked photos of themselves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But not if you just happen to be a swinger on your own personal time and keep work separate

If you hold a public office or work in a school there is a high chance you would pressured out of your job but that is not the same as a company legally being allowed to terminate you

or have sex outside in public places...I'd never admit nor deny, nor be likely to show such pics."

Thats illegal activity though ... as is dogging so its a different ball game from just being a swinger... would be treated the same as committing any crime the fact its sexual has nothing to do with it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is it that wnenever anyone poses a question which in the end involves a legal position that nobody asks the legal folk? There must be one or two who are also swingers surely?

Citing "It infringes my human rights" is worthless unless there is already precedent or you're prepared to be a test case.

Best advice is if in doubt don't wake the beast of adverse publicity.

It was someone from the legal profession making the false claims about the disclosure which they later admitted to only being their opinion so i wouldnt rely on that either ... better to do your own research

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But not if you just happen to be a swinger on your own personal time and keep work separate

If you hold a public office or work in a school there is a high chance you would pressured out of your job but that is not the same as a company legally being allowed to terminate you

or have sex outside in public places...I'd never admit nor deny, nor be likely to show such pics.

yes..I meant I was meaning the site doesnt appear to have a stance on dogging via its censorship on other things..so some may assume its part of the scene and OK..

strange as they even censor the word d*unk ffs lol

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By *reenleavesCouple
over a year ago

North Wales

I think this is exactly it. If you're in a position of authority or responsibility (teacher/doctor/police etc) then I think you'd have a tough time performing your duties with people knowing your 'secret shame'.

I think it's more a case of it being untenable to stay in your job rather than being sacked directly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Having sex isn't a crime or a sackable offence ( unless it involves your workplace , when it could be deemed to bring disrepute)

Lots of people on here use it as a convenient get out clause to hide the real reasons they haven't got pictures up ( fakes/attached)

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

Key question is 'does the conduct of the individual lead to an irrevocable breakdown of the relationship between employer and employee?'

Want an example? X is a senior manager in local government, required to provide advice to councillors as to their conduct in line with the Localism Act. Could he give that advice in a credible way if he was found not to have disclosed details of his lifestyle that might throw his judgement into doubt? Possibly not. However, the key detail for any tribunal case would be whether the employer had communicated their expectations to the employee.

One of my favourite cases on this sort of topic (GM PAckaging vs Haslem) involves a manager who was wanked off in his office by a female sales rep - management subsequently involved a firm of consultants called Right Hand HR.....

However, the key thing is, if people feel at risk of losing their job, respect their feelings. In Haslem, for instance, the court refused to allow anonymity to the complainant, meaning their conduct was widely reported...

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By *ewnmaturesCouple
over a year ago

fife

Certain jobs require professional registration. You can be disciplined by the Registering body for bringing profession into disrepute. They can remove your registration- which you need for employment- in effect the sack!

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By *evaquitCouple
over a year ago

Catthorpe

There's plenty of public sector professions where you'd g?be instantly suspended and inevitably sacked/prevented fro working I that sector ever again.

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By *evaquitCouple
over a year ago

Catthorpe

Apologies for mistakes, still readable though.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Key question is 'does the conduct of the individual lead to an irrevocable breakdown of the relationship between employer and employee?'

Can understand the case you mention going to a tribunal as it happened in the office?

Don’t see any way an employer in 2018 can sack someone for engaging in legal group sex with consenting adults. If they could then swingers would have less rights than straight and LGBT peers.

A school couldn’t sack a gay teacher for engaging in gay sex. They would be dragged through the courts surely and rightly so. In a similar way they can’t sack someone for engaging in group sex.

If you don’t mix swinging with work then we don’t think anyone can be sacked or disbarred from a professional organisation. It would be discriminatory no matter the employment contract.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/03/18 21:28:46]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don’t see any way an employer in 2018 can sack someone for engaging in legal group sex with consenting adults. If they could then swingers would have less rights than straight and LGBT peers.

A school couldn’t sack a gay teacher for engaging in gay sex. They would be dragged through the courts surely and rightly so. In a similar way they can’t sack someone for engaging in group sex.

If you don’t mix swinging with work then we don’t think anyone can be sacked or disbarred from a professional organisation. It would be discriminatory no matter the employment contract.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What gets me is that say you work in the police, you would be legally entitled to go out weekend and pull random girls/men and wouldn’t be pulled up for it. But if you’re on here doing the exact same thing it’s a huge no no!

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By *LUKCouple
over a year ago

Loughborough

"When you google sacked for swinging there is no reference to any case where someone has been sacked for swinging . But there have been people sacked for posting naked photos of themselves "

They probably weren't sacked directly for swinging, but 'managed out the door'.

We've met a few teachers (even a couple of head teachers) over the years. I'm pretty sure if word got around that the late 20s guy, that teaches reception, likes to go to orgies on the weekend, he wouldn't have much of a career thereafter.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Key question is 'does the conduct of the individual lead to an irrevocable breakdown of the relationship between employer and employee?'

Can understand the case you mention going to a tribunal as it happened in the office?

Don’t see any way an employer in 2018 can sack someone for engaging in legal group sex with consenting adults. If they could then swingers would have less rights than straight and LGBT peers.

A school couldn’t sack a gay teacher for engaging in gay sex. They would be dragged through the courts surely and rightly so. In a similar way they can’t sack someone for engaging in group sex.

If you don’t mix swinging with work then we don’t think anyone can be sacked or disbarred from a professional organisation. It would be discriminatory no matter the employment contract.

"
I understand your confidence. I don't share it. The stick has bent towards employers being allowed to stipulate what conduct they will or will not permit or expect, and being a swinger is not a protected characteristic in the same way as being LGBT. I don't want this to be a confrontational argument, but,if, in the context of a debate about employment law, you don't understand that being a swinger isn't a protected characteristic, you really shouldn't go anywhere near advising anyone about employment issues.

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By *eardsandboobsCouple
over a year ago

north of lincoln

"What gets me is that say you work in the police, you would be legally entitled to go out weekend and pull random girls/men and wouldn’t be pulled up for it. But if you’re on here doing the exact same thing it’s a huge no no!"

It’s not a huge no no. It’s only a no no if that said person posts pictures of himself on here in his uniform.

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Asked a lawyer.

His answer was officially no. You have the right to a private life.

Unofficially yes (if you work in a public sector) With the old ‘social media policy’ tale.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seen quite a few posts on the forums saying people would be sacked if their employer found out they were swingers. Reason would be bringing the company into disrepute apparently.

Anyone know enough to settle this once and for all. Can you be sacked for being a swinger ? "

The original thread was about someone who thinks should he pursue fun with a work colleague and the thread grew.

BUT, it was not about swinging can get you sacked,..... its all that it swinging encompass that can get you sacked and how a company can be brought into disrepute. i.e. a teacher playing on cam and being found out or why company can look into a relationship if it affects their business or their business name.

The thread got out of hand because some distorted what was actually mentioned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seen quite a few posts on the forums saying people would be sacked if their employer found out they were swingers. Reason would be bringing the company into disrepute apparently.

Anyone know enough to settle this once and for all. Can you be sacked for being a swinger ?

The original thread was about someone who thinks should he pursue fun with a work colleague and the thread grew.

The thread got out of hand because some distorted what was actually mentioned.

1. How do you know what threads the OP was referencing

2. If you care to re-read the thread you are talking about you were the first person to turn the topic to swinging... so that distortion is on you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/03/18 22:05:52]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

There are none so blind as those who choose not to see (misquote deliberate)

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By *L RogueMan
over a year ago

London

Businesses and certain industries live and die by their reputation. So on these grounds, sadly, Management could sack someone for bringing the company into disrepute. The person could file for unfair dismissal but as mentioned before, it's best to try and keep your private life private.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Seen quite a few posts on the forums saying people would be sacked if their employer found out they were swingers. Reason would be bringing the company into disrepute apparently.

Anyone know enough to settle this once and for all. Can you be sacked for being a swinger ?

The original thread was about someone who thinks should he pursue fun with a work colleague and the thread grew.

The thread got out of hand because some distorted what was actually mentioned.

1. How do you know what threads the OP was referencing

2. If you care to re-read the thread you are talking about you were the first person to turn the topic to swinging... so that distortion is on you

1 is obviously its that thread because theres no other recent and some have said.

2. wtf has that got to do with it if it was me or someone else.

The OP post of this thread thinks its about swinging can get you sacked, which it cannot, its doing some of the stuff that it encompasses. Simplistic statement that's all

Just making sure people know what the original thread was about as the OP of this thread is or might be worried that swinging can get him and or her sacked when it cannot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Bloody hell, My Managing Director knows what we do and is always making cracks about it.

I up the game on a daily basis to keep morale up in our workplace, the entire workforce know and not 1 person has made a complaint about me, they think it's hilarious the way I "inappropriately" conduct myself.

It's all about HOW you portray it across to people, I wouldn't dream of advertising my company in photo shoots or mention staff and colleagues in the same context as swinging.

THATS asking for trouble, but using it to keep the workforce on a high note to raise a smile or a giggle, no harm being done and I'm sure HR would happily and very quickly have pointed it out by now if they're was a problem.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know a primary school teacher who was sacked for being on an adult sex site.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can speak from experience as recently had the trauma of going through this. It was brought to my works attention I was using this site and swinging. Resulted in 3 horrible weeks of interviews with HR, seeing the police and being off work as I was worried sick. End result was thankfully not sacked basically as no link to the company. The HR team had never dealt with anything like it and although initially I thought I was going to be sacked luckily I kept my job. Had to involve police as someone had sent in a bundle of my photos and screenshots from here so reported a crime. Have since kept my face out to be on the safe side.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Businesses and certain industries live and die by their reputation. So on these grounds, sadly, Management could sack someone for bringing the company into disrepute. The person could file for unfair dismissal but as mentioned before, it's best to try and keep your private life private."

that's is my main points

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

"Key question is 'does the conduct of the individual lead to an irrevocable breakdown of the relationship between employer and employee?'

Can understand the case you mention going to a tribunal as it happened in the office?

Don’t see any way an employer in 2018 can sack someone for engaging in legal group sex with consenting adults. If they could then swingers would have less rights than straight and LGBT peers.

A school couldn’t sack a gay teacher for engaging in gay sex. They would be dragged through the courts surely and rightly so. In a similar way they can’t sack someone for engaging in group sex.

If you don’t mix swinging with work then we don’t think anyone can be sacked or disbarred from a professional organisation. It would be discriminatory no matter the employment contract.

I understand your confidence. I don't share it. The stick has bent towards employers being allowed to stipulate what conduct they will or will not permit or expect, and being a swinger is not a protected characteristic in the same way as being LGBT. I don't want this to be a confrontational argument, but,if, in the context of a debate about employment law, you don't understand that being a swinger isn't a protected characteristic, you really shouldn't go anywhere near advising anyone about employment issues."

100% this. If a primary school teacher or paediatric nurse was outed to their employer as a swinger, engaging in weekend orgies & gangbangs, do you really think they would keep their job?

Doesn’t matter whether they are ‘sacked’ or ‘managed out’ ... they would still lose their job.

Social workers dealing with at risk children? Solicitors? MP’s or local councillors? Church wardens? School caretakers? Anyone who requires membership of a regulatory body to do their job?

Some people do not have to worry as it wouldn’t affect their job. But at the very least it would likely impact on your credibility with an employer & reputational damage would limit your ability to do your job properly.

I had a play partner who worked in a sensitive branch of the legal profession & they were required as part of their contract & not undertake any activity that could cause reputational damage ‘to themselves or their employer’. So swinging would fall into this category & they would be instantly dismissed.

But at the end of the day, it shouldn’t matter. If someone feels that their job is at risk from being found out, you should respect that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" 100% this. If a primary school teacher or paediatric nurse was outed to their employer as a swinger, engaging in weekend orgies & gangbangs, do you really think they would keep their job?

Social workers dealing with at risk children? School caretakers?

I dont understand comments like that which suggest being a swinger makes you a risk to children (why specify peadatric nurse or social worker that works with kids?) ... I seem to have missed the point when engaging in consensual sex with adults became akin to being a peadophile

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can speak from experience as recently had the trauma of going through this. It was brought to my works attention I was using this site and swinging. Resulted in 3 horrible weeks of interviews with HR, seeing the police and being off work as I was worried sick. End result was thankfully not sacked basically as no link to the company. The HR team had never dealt with anything like it and although initially I thought I was going to be sacked luckily I kept my job. Had to involve police as someone had sent in a bundle of my photos and screenshots from here so reported a crime. Have since kept my face out to be on the safe side. "

Im so sorry you went through this must have been fucking awful xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ive retired now but i know as a nurse i could have been sacked for bringing the profession into disrepute

So glad im not there anymore

Sadly yes it really happened about twenty years ago

Nurse has an affair the blokes wife reports her to the Nursing and Midwifery Council they strike her off the register she looses her job

As a nurse you can get into trouble for anything

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" 100% this. If a primary school teacher or paediatric nurse was outed to their employer as a swinger, engaging in weekend orgies & gangbangs, do you really think they would keep their job?

Social workers dealing with at risk children? School caretakers?

You have missed the point when engaging in consensual sex with adults became akin to being a paedophile. (I don't know where the paedophile came into it)

There is nothing wrong with engaging in consensual sex with adults. If you are swinging and caught doing some of the stuff it encompasses, on fab like dogging, gangbangs on cam etc... and then found out. If its brought to your works attention and you are dealing in the public sector or other sectors where companies rely on their reputation or where your company is dealing with children, of course it can impact and be dealt with severely.

If you get caught dogging which maybe arranged on here, if caught, a police record and then your disclosure goes to be renewed and your company see it, you'll most likely be sacked.

Also as I said about 40 of my workers could have lost their job:

It's simple really, which unfortunately a few chose to ignore

I ran a business where if found out I was a swinger then potentially 40 odd people could lose their jobs. (Not directly) but my clients, important clients could not be seen to be dealing with swingers. This would then make them have to cancel major contracts then there would be no work thus I would have to sack/let go 40 odd people as no work to cover all because I was a swinger. I wont name the businesses but if I was found out they would cancel the contracts and then we would lose work, thus workers would be let go.

It is to do with the public sector/ hospitality/tourism and also deals with youths/children.

p.s. everyone, I sold the business which is still going strong loll

For your information disclosure it not just about finding out if your a paedophile its about tons of other stuff you have done, ie. debt los, bankruptcy, speeding fines, police record of any kind etc...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can be identified by those tattoos I would imagine...

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By *inkerbell67Woman
over a year ago

Clacton on sea essex

What you do in your private life should having to do with your working life unless you have a uniform on display or part of it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Since i actually have a disclosure believe it or not I am aware what it entails ... but thanks for schooling me on that

Also once again you seem to have read orgies and gangbang as dogging and sex on camera ... i will assume thats accidental and not just because one fits your point and the other doesnt

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"What you do in your private life should having to do with your working life unless you have a uniform on display or part of it "

But it does.

If it risks the employer's reputation, or affects the relationship that the employee has with colleagues or customers, then it is very much the employer's business.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/03/18 23:21:43]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Since i actually have a disclosure believe it or not I am aware what it entails ... but thanks for schooling me on that

Also once again you seem to have read orgies and gangbang as dogging and sex on camera ... i will assume thats accidental and not just because one fits your point and the other doesnt

This is what I mean about what you are saying.... ffs, we know gangbangs and dogging isn't swinging daahhh but its arranged on fab so that's is what is meant by swinging as they are part of swinging on fab. and that the job risks are, which you chose to ignore or read wrong and maybe I'll take part blame for not making that clear

Think about this, you gonna tell me that swinging is still 3 couples in a room throwing car keys into a bowl and see who gets who. Its evolved now. And don't start a forum post saying that people who are dogging or playing on cam should leave fabSWINGERS because those two and others are not known as swinging but they still arrange it on fabswingers.

I don't go dogging, I don't play on cam. I go swinging with females n couples and parties and go to socials. I don't do everything that is available on fabswingers to swingers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Weve lost 2 chief execs for swinging but it was in the works carpark and shower room. Guess that counts as gross mis conduct

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Weve lost 2 chief execs for swinging but it was in the works carpark and shower room. Guess that counts as gross mis conduct"

lol, I take it was each exec with two incidents with different people

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By *niper oneMan
over a year ago

DERBY/Notts border

"Seen quite a few posts on the forums saying people would be sacked if their employer found out they were swingers. Reason would be bringing the company into disrepute apparently.

Anyone know enough to settle this once and for all. Can you be sacked for being a swinger ? "
Bottom line you cant be sacked for being a swinger Fact

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The way we see it is swinging is a sexual fetish in that swapping partners and having group sex is what turns you on. Could you be sacked for doing bdsm or for liking wax poured on you or for wanting to wear nappies at the weekend ? I would find it very difficult to believe that unless it impacted your job or made the company look bad that you would be fired.

"
isn't that most of the House of Commons?? Lol

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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago

Wiltshire and London

isn't that most of the House of Commons?? Lol

Yep, and they don't get sacked for anything.

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

Ultimately, it doesn’t matter what we all know swinging to be (ie consensual sex between adults)

The general public view it in the same way the Sunday tabloids sensationalise it ... that it’s all d*unken orgies, dogging, BDSM and wife swapping, that it’s immoral and shameful. Which is also how an employer would see it & why - regardless of whether it’s right or wrong - some people would end up losing their jobs as a result.

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By *unning LinguistMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Your employer can't sack you unless you mention their name in your profile somewhere. Or do something illegal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well as sexuality is a protected caracturistic and therefor covered under the descrimination regulations aswel as under data protection regulation i think a company would be hard pushed to sack anyone for being a swinger.

Especually as if they wouldnt be able to say why you were released unless of course you are doing it on company time or using company property (office cars etc or tech to access sites).

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By *ornLordMan
over a year ago

Wiltshire and London

"Well as sexuality is a protected caracturistic and therefor covered under the descrimination regulations aswel as under data protection regulation i think a company would be hard pushed to sack anyone for being a swinger.

Especually as if they wouldnt be able to say why you were released unless of course you are doing it on company time or using company property (office cars etc or tech to access sites)."

But is "swinger" a "sexuality"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Especually as if they wouldnt be able to say why you were released unless of course you are doing it on company time or using company property (office cars etc or tech to access sites).

But is "swinger" a "sexuality"?"

exactly!...its pretty simple..if you sign a contract saying you can be dismissed for bringing the company/service whatever , into disrepute, then it's up to you whether you sign it or not, its nothing to do with your sexuality. or your human rights..it can be interpreted very loosely but basically any grown adult can judge for themselves what that might cover. obviously, its highly unlikely to happen without some reason, but its there. if you dont like it dont sign the contraction. the rights and wrongs of it are a whole different question..things change, slowly maybe but they change...not that long ago that nurses couldnt be married and be seen fit to do their job!

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By *quarerootMan
over a year ago

Helston

A few years back, a colonel in the army medical Services got labelled as colonel lustred in the daily mail. He had been having an affair with a female officer. Although not directly in her chain of command, he was her career manager and so it was thought that he could have given her preferential treatment when it came to postings etc.

Needless to say, he was reprimanded by the most senior medical officer in the armed forces and censured so he was banned from promotion for 3 years.

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Interesting thread.

I feel the people saying no work for private companies and the nurses/teachers are in the ‘yes camp’. I think that boils down to the truth... there IS no right answer. It depends on who you work for!!

Dare anyone just go in and ask their boss...... lol

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Weve lost 2 chief execs for swinging but it was in the works carpark and shower room. Guess that counts as gross mis conduct"
Not necessarily, but possibly.... (In a case I mentoned above there was a good discussion in the judgement about whether the sexual affair alone was grounds for dismissal, but the point was moot because there was other clear evidence of the breakdown in the employment relationship.)

The thing many of the commenters on here have to get their heads round is that British law has developed a very odd, slightly asymmetrical approach to employment. On the one hand, there are the nine protected characteristics under the Equalities Act; discrimination against an individual because of those is always unacceptable and almost guarantees a tribunal win.

Being a swinger is not a protected characteristic. Many of the lesbian and gay men and women who fought for their rights not to be discriminated against would happily throw those of us who prefer multiple partners under the bus if it meant they could keep their right to get married.

Rights under the HRA are much more arguable; article 8 does cover the right to a private life but does not explicitly protect sexual behaviour as opposed to sexual identity. THere are plenty of HRA decisions which are analogous - the right to freedom of speech (article 9) of to freedoom of asociation (article 11) have been heavily qualified in cases where the courts have balanced the rights of individuals against the rights of the state or a public interest not to intrude too far into certain areas such as employment contracts.

Arguing that sexual behaviour should be protected, as well as identity, is a huge leap from where the law is now and no use at all to anyone who fears their boss might regard their weekend adventures as beyond the pale. Please, just respect the genuine and rational emotions of many of the people here - if they;re scared it may be because their experiences are different to yours, but equally genuine. Also, please remember, only one in three of us is a member of a trades union, and even amongst those of us who are trades unionists, there is still justified fear about exactly how knackering, painful and humiliating it can be to fight a case to tribunal or beyond.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

Especually as if they wouldnt be able to say why you were released unless of course you are doing it on company time or using company property (office cars etc or tech to access sites).

But is "swinger" a "sexuality"?"

See my long post above - it's not.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Interesting thread.

Dare anyone just go in and ask their boss...... lol"
I have had this convo back when I was a day to day line manager for a large workforce. Biting my tongue as I resisted the urge to make a disclosure, but managed to get out of the convo with my dignity intact.

Gist of the story was that the lass involved was a bit of a greedy girl; she shagged a colleague on a one night stand (bar toilets I believe); he then became very upset when he discovered he was neither first nor best, and became a bit of a drama llama a to work.

Outcome was no action against her or the other two guys, but the drama llama got a final written warning and left of his own volition shortly after.

On the other hand I have also sacked a lass who was sexting during work time and encouraging the lad she fancied to go to the toilets for a wank - perfectly justifiable, and she was shit at the job anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A localish couple posted pics of her in a very recognisable work uniform with her ID on show. I'm pretty sure shed have had the disrepute clause thrown at her...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree.

I was allowed to resign after a fellow swinger dobbed me in. They had to do something as a member of the public had complained about a public officer. Upsetting at the time. 16 weeks of garden leave whilst they investigated, couldn't find any actual reason, but my reputation due to gossip had been destroyed, so my career over. Looking back, best thing that ever happened to me.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Agree.

For all those commenting on here, saying people cannot be sacked, that human rights protects them, and all the rest of the nonsense, what happened to this person is what happens in real life, and is what the law allows.

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

I’m seething at that ‘fellow swinger tale’. I would NEVER EVER EVER have someone’s job unless they had done something criminal r**e/assault etc.

How much of a horrible bastard do you have to be to intentionally take away someone’s livelihood and their ability to pay bills/look after their kids etc.

All because of what, jealousy?!

Absolutely vile

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By *bthreeCouple
over a year ago

Yeovil

It’s not a huge no no. It’s only a no no if that said person posts pictures of himself on here in his uniform."

Agree. Use discretion

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

It’s not a huge no no. It’s only a no no if that said person posts pictures of himself on here in his uniform.

Agree. Use discretion "

It's not just about being in uniform. Being in the Police and being on here out of uniform, but being recognisable as being PC Bloggs, because there is a face pic etc, is enough for their Police employer to take action potentially.

There is a big difference in being a swinger and being on this site, and going out and dating people at the weekend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm training to be a teacher, I'd be willing to bet a pretty large sum that most people don't want to know they're six year old's teacher swings every other weekend and I'd get the sack!

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"I'm training to be a teacher, I'd be willing to bet a pretty large sum that most people don't want to know they're six year old's teacher swings every other weekend and I'd get the sack! "

I'd bet you anything that you are correct, and why you would be sacked and why the Employment Tribunal would back your employers.

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

Another point to consider for those quoting the HRA; it’s an EU piece if legislation & won’t cover us after March 2019.

So even if it protected sexual behaviour (which as pointed out above, it doesn’t), it’s not applicable after next year anyway.

But that’s a whole other debate!!

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Another point to consider for those quoting the HRA; it’s an EU piece if legislation & won’t cover us after March 2019.

So even if it protected sexual behaviour (which as pointed out above, it doesn’t), it’s not applicable after next year anyway.

But that’s a whole other debate!!

No, you're wrong. The EU human rights legislation is written into UK law already, as we had to do under the EU rules - hence the Human Rights Act.

That Act is very unlikely to be repealed post leaving the EU.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is true, I was caught fucking my bosses wife in the store cupboard and I was sacked.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Another point to consider for those quoting the HRA; it’s an EU piece if legislation & won’t cover us after March 2019.

So even if it protected sexual behaviour (which as pointed out above, it doesn’t), it’s not applicable after next year anyway.

But that’s a whole other debate!!

"
that's utter bollocks, I'm happy to say. HRA 1998 enshrines in British law the provisions of ECHR which UK signed in 1951 at the suggestion of Churchill. Nothing to do with the EU or Brexit even though some Tories and right wingers like to muddy the waters on this.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Another point to consider for those quoting the HRA; it’s an EU piece if legislation & won’t cover us after March 2019.

So even if it protected sexual behaviour (which as pointed out above, it doesn’t), it’s not applicable after next year anyway.

But that’s a whole other debate!!

that's utter bollocks, I'm happy to say. HRA 1998 enshrines in British law the provisions of ECHR which UK signed in 1951 at the suggestion of Churchill. Nothing to do with the EU or Brexit even though some Tories and right wingers like to muddy the waters on this."

No! It was brought in to comply with EU rules. That's why it is a 1998 Act and not a 1951 Act!

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

"Another point to consider for those quoting the HRA; it’s an EU piece if legislation & won’t cover us after March 2019.

So even if it protected sexual behaviour (which as pointed out above, it doesn’t), it’s not applicable after next year anyway.

But that’s a whole other debate!!

Well that’s something at least ... I know we’re losing a whole host of laws, especially around employment protection & so on. Good to know it’s not everything, Can’t see TM giving us a decent replacement for the working hours directive, let alone the HRA

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Another point to consider for those quoting the HRA; it’s an EU piece if legislation & won’t cover us after March 2019.

So even if it protected sexual behaviour (which as pointed out above, it doesn’t), it’s not applicable after next year anyway.

But that’s a whole other debate!!

What laws are we losing? You're talking nonsense! Do you actually know how UK law works?

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

Don’t think any of us would want outed but the question is can you be sacked for swinging ; not dogging or posting pics in your works uniform or shagging in office or shagging other people in the office.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

I don’t think you could be sacked for those but you could be sacked for having your titties on the internet

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

Don't get too hung up on the actual acts, out of context. There are no cases that say - you can be sacked for swinging, but not dogging for instance.

Each depends on the circumstances, and the job that you do, and how the employer, being reasonable perceives it and how his customers will perceive it.

The problem is that anything that is a "sexual deviation" that is not protected under the law, is a risk, and the more "respectable" the job, the more you are at risk.

Someone above gave the example of a teacher. Why can't a teacher go to a swingers club? You might ask. But you can imagine the parents shouting - "sexual deviant", and what else "perverted" are they into. They are teaching my kids etc etc.

Can you imagine the Vicar on the dogging site keeping his job?

You might have a better argument in saying that no one cars about the supermarket check-out operator, or the guy who digs holes in the roads for BT, but there is the question of black-mail. They expose themselves to that risk, doing what they do, and that would be a concern for an employer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah I think in a lot of jobs you're bosses don't want their employees to be seen as sexual in any way, especially if you're working with kids. Don't know enough about law to know how justified they would be in firing you but I think you'd have a rough time getting a court on your side.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

"
the case you're looking for is Pay v. UK - case went all the way to the ECHR and he lost.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

I am a lawyer and my view, which I have said many times on here, is that it would be unlawful to sack someone purely for being a swinger unless adherence to traditional morality as part and parcel of the job, like a vicar say.

It would have been different twenty years ago, and one of the first cases I was involved in was someone who lost a case after he was sacked after being exposed as a swinger in the gutter press.

A lot of these cases involve public perception and I think very few people these days would consider that someones private consensual sex life was a ground for dismissal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work in the film industry and at a wrap party a A list Hollywood actor and me got chatting and as the drink flowed I told him about fab do he said let’s see so he scrolled through my phone and fabbed a few pics and enjoyed it and said he wished he could have a profile.....funny lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I brought up my lifestyle and my membership of Xtasia and fabswingers at interview. Covers all the bases and means it can’t ever be used against me...."

Did you get the job

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

"I work in the film industry and at a wrap party a A list Hollywood actor and me got chatting and as the drink flowed I told him about fab do he said let’s see so he scrolled through my phone and fabbed a few pics and enjoyed it and said he wished he could have a profile.....funny lol"

Pretending said celeb drooled over my nudes!! Lol

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

"I brought up my lifestyle and my membership of Xtasia and fabswingers at interview. Covers all the bases and means it can’t ever be used against me....

Did you get the job

Dying to know what this job is.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

You might not be able to be sacked for being a swinger but if you post naked pictures anywhere on the net and work in education you're on dodgy ground. A "concerned" parent or curious pupil can make your position untenable.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

the case you're looking for is Pay v. UK - case went all the way to the ECHR and he lost. "

Pay was a 2004 case. I suspect a case would be differently decided now in the light of the Mosley case.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

It would have been different twenty years ago, and one of the first cases I was involved in was someone who lost a case after he was sacked after being exposed as a swinger in the gutter press.

A lot of these cases involve public perception and I think very few people these days would consider that someones private consensual sex life was a ground for dismissal. "

It depends on their job and the risk to the employer's reputation, and the publicity or risk of it. Look up the case of the fireman from last September that was on the front page of The Sun newspaper.

Most employers would fairly dismiss in those circumstances

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You might not be able to be sacked for being a swinger but if you post naked pictures anywhere on the net and work in education you're on dodgy ground. A "concerned" parent or curious pupil can make your position untenable.

I think if you make reasonable efforts to ensure you are not identifiable then you are probably OK

I agree though teaching is a bit of a grey area. Query though if a Gay male teacher would be sacked if he had a profile on gender.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

Grinder!

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

"Grinder! "

If his widge was out. Yes.

He could say he was looking for a date otherwise

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

It would have been different twenty years ago, and one of the first cases I was involved in was someone who lost a case after he was sacked after being exposed as a swinger in the gutter press.

A lot of these cases involve public perception and I think very few people these days would consider that someones private consensual sex life was a ground for dismissal.

Most employers would fairly dismiss in those circumstances"

Was that the one where he posed in his uniform? The issue there was connecting his employer.

I n general I would say you are only at risk of sacking if one of the following apply?

1. You don't make reasonable efforts to stay private.

2. You involve your employer in some way

3. You work in a morally sensitive area. Religion definitely, teaching possibly.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

the case you're looking for is Pay v. UK - case went all the way to the ECHR and he lost.

Pay was a 2004 case. I suspect a case would be differently decided now in the light of the Mosley case. "
I'm not persuaded - I think there are sufficient vested interests to ensure that the law would draw a distinction between private conduct and privity of the employment contract. It's a hell of a bet to ask anyone to take, that they might win a test case with the might of government and the major churches against them.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

the case you're looking for is Pay v. UK - case went all the way to the ECHR and he lost.

Pay was a 2004 case. I suspect a case would be differently decided now in the light of the Mosley case. I'm not persuaded - I think there are sufficient vested interests to ensure that the law would draw a distinction between private conduct and privity of the employment contract. It's a hell of a bet to ask anyone to take, that they might win a test case with the might of government and the major churches against them."

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

People are still very conservative, especially when buying goods and services from companies.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I would highly doubt you will get sacked for swinging.

Unless you start asking people in work to fuck them.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"I would highly doubt you will get sacked for swinging.

Unless you start asking people in work to fuck them.

That's pretty naive

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"People are still very conservative, especially when buying goods and services from companies.

I think that some businesses and people outed in the swingfields fiasco on 2016 were quite badly affected.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

I think football fans can be pretty much taken as representative of the average bloke in the street, so people's reactions were interesting. No one seemed to think any the worse of me, there was some piss taking obviously but no one was nasty or seemed to think it was disgusting.

Admittedly, that was mainly men and the general female view may be different to a degree, but what I took from that is that swinging, as long as there is no cheating involved, is viewed with an amused tolerance by the general public.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal."

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

If the reaction of the average person in the street is amused tolerance of swingers then employing one (except in the sensitive areas mentioned) won't bring your company into disrepute and hence no lawful dismissal.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

I think you under estimate people's tolerance and in any event how would the washing machine customer know the repair man was a swinger, even if the employer did, any more than the customer would be aware he was Gay. It's nothing to do with him.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off."

Then the example is a bad one. It would be unlawful for the press to out a washing machine repair man as a swinger as there would be no public interest in doing so, so it couldn't get known publicly . And if someone maliciously told an employer he was a swinger, then customers wouldn't know.

I really think most people don't give a flying fuck about other people's consensual sex lives, and the idea that most men would be scared that a swinger hits on every woman they see is up there with the idea that Gay men want to fuck every man they see.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

Ever heard of the Ashley Madison hack? And the press who reported names?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

I’m going to assume it’s the male posting here ... for guys it’s totally different. In wider society, Blokes get a slap on the back for being a ‘player’ but women still get though of as a slut.

Try telling a football crowd that I had a group play with 7 guys, that I host an event at a Swingers club, that my boobs are posted on the Internet (no face pics) and that I like to meet guys for sex in a club

Would I get the same reaction you did? I doubt it

Would I be called a slag & have a load of them offer to let me show them what they were missing? Probably.

Society is not ready to accept sexually liberated women. We’ve only had gay marriage for 4 years and some people are still struggling with that!

I think if you’re in any doubt that your job could be at risk, even via reputation only, other people should respect that.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

Ever heard of the Ashley Madison hack? And the press who reported names?

A. That was to do with cheating. B. I am not aware the press posted any names.

There have been many well publicised cases where the press have been prevented from publishing details of cheating celebrities as it want in the public interest to do so.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

Would I get the same reaction you did? I doubt it

Would I be called a slag & have a load of them offer to let me show them what they were missing? Probably.

Society is not ready to accept sexually liberated women. We’ve only had gay marriage for 4 years and some people are still struggling with that!

I think if you’re in any doubt that your job could be at risk, even via reputation only, other people should respect that."

If course I'd respect people not wanting their swinging publicised, I don't want mine publicised. I am just stating my view of the legal position.

And for what's its worth, once I was outed I was quite open about me and my partner swinging together and the reaction to her was pretty much the same as to me.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

Would I get the same reaction you did? I doubt it

Would I be called a slag & have a load of them offer to let me show them what they were missing? Probably.

Society is not ready to accept sexually liberated women. We’ve only had gay marriage for 4 years and some people are still struggling with that!

I think if you’re in any doubt that your job could be at risk, even via reputation only, other people should respect that.

If course I'd respect people not wanting their swinging publicised, I don't want mine publicised. I am just stating my view of the legal position.

And for what's its worth, once I was outed I was quite open about me and my partner swinging together and the reaction to her was pretty much the same as to me. "

Your view of the legal position is too relaxed. Most employers will not be so relaxed. As the other poster and I have said already, the world isn't like that. That is why you have to be a member on here to see people's faces, and why most swingers and clubs are very discreet about it.

The club that is now Pandoras in Leeds, faced strong opposition from the residents and local councillors when it applied for planning permission, as reported in the Press and as recorded in the planning documentation.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

the case you're looking for is Pay v. UK - case went all the way to the ECHR and he lost.

I think people's attitude to unorthodox sexuality has vastly changed in the last 14 years. Certainly you wouldn't get sacked for being poly, and swinging is to poly as traditional pulling is to monogamy. "
If you are employed as a vicar you certainly will be sacked for being poly - even in one of the faiths where employment is clearer and more contractual than the established church in England.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

True. Many companies have rules about visible tattoos, so it is simply wrong to say that swinging is acceptable to employers.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I would highly doubt you will get sacked for swinging.

Unless you start asking people in work to fuck them.

That's pretty naive"

Is it ??

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

Would I get the same reaction you did? I doubt it

Would I be called a slag & have a load of them offer to let me show them what they were missing? Probably.

Society is not ready to accept sexually liberated women. We’ve only had gay marriage for 4 years and some people are still struggling with that!

I think if you’re in any doubt that your job could be at risk, even via reputation only, other people should respect that.

If course I'd respect people not wanting their swinging publicised, I don't want mine publicised. I am just stating my view of the legal position.

And for what's its worth, once I was outed I was quite open about me and my partner swinging together and the reaction to her was pretty much the same as to me.

Well this argument will only ever be solved by some contemporary legal authority, of which there are apparently none. Which can't be disputed though is that people are now much more tolerant of unorthodox sexuality than they were twenty or even ten years ago.

Employers would think very carefully before sacking a discrete swinger who wasn't publicly connected with them in any way.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *oodnitegirlWoman
over a year ago

Yorkshire

Tbf i am an employer (small business). If it was any of my staff I’d cheer them on and stand right up for them if someone complained... But that’s coz I’m this way I suppose.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

Would I get the same reaction you did? I doubt it

Would I be called a slag & have a load of them offer to let me show them what they were missing? Probably.

Society is not ready to accept sexually liberated women. We’ve only had gay marriage for 4 years and some people are still struggling with that!

I think if you’re in any doubt that your job could be at risk, even via reputation only, other people should respect that.

If course I'd respect people not wanting their swinging publicised, I don't want mine publicised. I am just stating my view of the legal position.

And for what's its worth, once I was outed I was quite open about me and my partner swinging together and the reaction to her was pretty much the same as to me.

Employers would think very carefully before sacking a discrete swinger who wasn't publicly connected with them in any way.

What do you mean "discrete swinger"?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Really interesting views esp the ones about sexual behaviour not being protected although sexuality is.

The underground aspect of swinging and the treatment of it as deviant strikes us very much like LGBT people were treated years ago.

So to be more specific :

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for attending a swinging club ?

Anyone know of a documented case where someone has been sacked for enjoying a particular legal sexual behaviour? For example BDSM or even anal sex ?

the case you're looking for is Pay v. UK - case went all the way to the ECHR and he lost.

I think people's attitude to unorthodox sexuality has vastly changed in the last 14 years. Certainly you wouldn't get sacked for being poly, and swinging is to poly as traditional pulling is to monogamy. If you are employed as a vicar you certainly will be sacked for being poly - even in one of the faiths where employment is clearer and more contractual than the established church in England. "

That fits into my exception where adherence to conventional morality is a condition of the job.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"For what it's worth, I have some experience of "normal" people's reaction to swinging.

I used to be quite active on a site about the football team I support. One arse hole on there did some digging and outed me.

Well I don't think most employers see it like you do, nor do most customers, and nor would most Employment Tribunals.

Remember the test for Unfair Dismissal.

That's my point. It's not how I saw it, it's how random football fans saw it.

But real life doesn't work like that. They will tolerate it in the street, but will they want that washing machine repair man swinger in the house with their wife?

The whole point of all this is IF people know. If the employer doesn't know, how can they sack someone. It's a given in this thread, that the fact is known.

And it is something that would put customers off.

Would I get the same reaction you did? I doubt it

Would I be called a slag & have a load of them offer to let me show them what they were missing? Probably.

Society is not ready to accept sexually liberated women. We’ve only had gay marriage for 4 years and some people are still struggling with that!

I think if you’re in any doubt that your job could be at risk, even via reputation only, other people should respect that.

If course I'd respect people not wanting their swinging publicised, I don't want mine publicised. I am just stating my view of the legal position.

And for what's its worth, once I was outed I was quite open about me and my partner swinging together and the reaction to her was pretty much the same as to me.

Employers would think very carefully before sacking a discrete swinger who wasn't publicly connected with them in any way.

What do you mean "discrete swinger"?

Discreet!

Someone who doesn't publicise their activities.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Tbf i am an employer (small business). If it was any of my staff I’d cheer them on and stand right up for them if someone complained... But that’s coz I’m this way I suppose. "

Indeed, I can see people might have issues with primary school teachers being swingers, but the customers of a corner shop or a washing machine repair business really wouldn't give a toss.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Tbf i am an employer (small business). If it was any of my staff I’d cheer them on and stand right up for them if someone complained... But that’s coz I’m this way I suppose.

Indeed, I can see people might have issues with primary school teachers being swingers, but the customers of a corner shop or a washing machine repair business really wouldn't give a toss. "

You say that you are a lawyer. Never drafted a morality clause?

And before you said discrete, not discreet!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Tbf i am an employer (small business). If it was any of my staff I’d cheer them on and stand right up for them if someone complained... But that’s coz I’m this way I suppose.

Indeed, I can see people might have issues with primary school teachers being swingers, but the customers of a corner shop or a washing machine repair business really wouldn't give a toss.

You say that you are a lawyer. Never drafted a morality clause?

And before you said discrete, not discreet!"

That's more an American concept. In this country we tend to have the "not bringing the employer into disrepute" clause.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *hyandtwistedCouple
over a year ago

loughborough

I was in a job that if it came out I wouldnt have one. not saying I would get fired but anyone can be managed out of a job if your employer wanted too.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"Tbf i am an employer (small business). If it was any of my staff I’d cheer them on and stand right up for them if someone complained... But that’s coz I’m this way I suppose.

Indeed, I can see people might have issues with primary school teachers being swingers, but the customers of a corner shop or a washing machine repair business really wouldn't give a toss.

You say that you are a lawyer. Never drafted a morality clause?

And before you said discrete, not discreet!

That's more an American concept. In this country we tend to have the "not bringing the employer into disrepute" clause. "

You're a lawyer? Really? Morality and not bringing into disrepute are the same thing!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Tbf i am an employer (small business). If it was any of my staff I’d cheer them on and stand right up for them if someone complained... But that’s coz I’m this way I suppose.

Indeed, I can see people might have issues with primary school teachers being swingers, but the customers of a corner shop or a washing machine repair business really wouldn't give a toss.

You say that you are a lawyer. Never drafted a morality clause?

And before you said discrete, not discreet!

That's more an American concept. In this country we tend to have the "not bringing the employer into disrepute" clause.

You're a lawyer? Really? Morality and not bringing into disrepute are the same thing!

No they're not. What brings an employer into disrepute is subjective and changes as social mores change. Forty years ago being gay would have brought an employer into disrepute.

As I understand morality clauses in the USA they prohibit specific behavior, like having extra marital sex for example.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

They are the same. And you quoted the Moseley case in this thread. Do you know how much trouble that caused in F1? That certain teams found it immoral and brought the sport into disrepute and were wanting to leave as a result, and some countries not wanting to host it?

Life is not as you see it.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

It’s a question of semantics to a large degree too.

You might not be ‘sacked’

But like insaid before, if your position became untenable, you’d be managed out

Ultimately, you’d still be losing your job because of being a swinger

Yes, attitudes are more relaxed than they were, certainly in the younger generation ... but they are still a long way from swinging being seen as socially acceptable in the mainstream!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"They are the same. And you quoted the Moseley case in this thread. Do you know how much trouble that caused in F1? That certain teams found it immoral and brought the sport into disrepute and were wanting to leave as a result, and some countries not wanting to host it?

Life is not as you see it.

That would be the formula one that had record revenues of $16 billion in 2015 making it the richest sporting franchise in the world.

Yep, the Mosley case really trashed F1.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Life is not as you see it.

That would be the formula one that had record revenues of $16 billion in 2015 making it the richest sporting franchise in the world.

Yep, the Mosley case really trashed F1. "

It trashed him - and that's the point. He did not stand for re-election and he did not turn up to races.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"It’s a question of semantics to a large degree too.

You might not be ‘sacked’

But like insaid before, if your position became untenable, you’d be managed out

Ultimately, you’d still be losing your job because of being a swinger

Yes, attitudes are more relaxed than they were, certainly in the younger generation ... but they are still a long way from swinging being seen as socially acceptable in the mainstream!"

I don't disagree that any form on non monogamy is seen as being less socially acceptable than any form of monogamy.

But on the other hand, the official social ideology is one of the right to sexual autonomy for consenting adults. Sacking people for swinging goes against that ideology, hence I think employers would be very careful before doing that.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"It’s a question of semantics to a large degree too.

You might not be ‘sacked’

But like insaid before, if your position became untenable, you’d be managed out

Ultimately, you’d still be losing your job because of being a swinger

Yes, attitudes are more relaxed than they were, certainly in the younger generation ... but they are still a long way from swinging being seen as socially acceptable in the mainstream!

I don't disagree that any form on non monogamy is seen as being less socially acceptable than any form of monogamy.

Employers can and do sack for such matters and much less and they have the right to do so.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"It’s a question of semantics to a large degree too.

You might not be ‘sacked’

But like insaid before, if your position became untenable, you’d be managed out

Ultimately, you’d still be losing your job because of being a swinger

Yes, attitudes are more relaxed than they were, certainly in the younger generation ... but they are still a long way from swinging being seen as socially acceptable in the mainstream!

I don't disagree that any form on non monogamy is seen as being less socially acceptable than any form of monogamy.

Employers can and do sack for such matters and much less and they have the right to do so."

Could you provide me with a link to a story where a employer has sacked someone purely for being a swinger within the last five years. That excludes stories where people were sacked because they involved their employer directly by wearing company uniforms, using company premises etc.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

You're the lawyer apparently. Look at the Liddiard, Williams, Cosgrove, Gosden, Laws cases. Tell me the difference between those and swinging?

Tell me the test the employer has to apply.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You're the lawyer apparently. Look at the Liddiard, Williams, Cosgrove, Gosden, Laws cases. Tell me the difference between those and swinging?

Tell me the test the employer has to apply."

I Googled all those plus swinging and got nothing. Full names?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It makes me laugh...non swingers have big opinions on what we get up to, they often think that we want to fuck everything that moves and you definitely can't trust us ladies with your husbands! All because we actively organise our sex lives means we are some kind of deviant with no self control and therefore some kind of embarrasment to people that should have no concern in our love lives anyway! Yet going out and getting d*unk every weekend and fucking randoms is ok because...well...they were d*unk and it just happened hahaha!

even getting pregnant this way is not as frowned upon as soberly choosing a sexual partner, meeting them, getting to know eachother, planning a night together and having safe sex. Along with the fact that I don't know anyone that gets tested for STDs on a regular basis, that isn't a swinger, infact I have known people that thought they even had symptoms and still didn't get checked, but still thought they were ok to fuck other people because they were d*unk and having a laugh. So which of these people should be an embarrasment or put a company into disrepute?!? Tbh neither, what people do in their sex lives, unless illegal, should be of no concern to anyone else, especially if it is of no consequence to them!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"You're the lawyer apparently. Look at the Liddiard, Williams, Cosgrove, Gosden, Laws cases. Tell me the difference between those and swinging?

Tell me the test the employer has to apply.

I Googled all those plus swinging and got nothing. Full names? "

If you're an employment lawyer, than you know them. Lawtel broken?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You're the lawyer apparently. Look at the Liddiard, Williams, Cosgrove, Gosden, Laws cases. Tell me the difference between those and swinging?

Tell me the test the employer has to apply.

I Googled all those plus swinging and got nothing. Full names?

If you're an employment lawyer, than you know them. Lawtel broken?"

I didn't say I was an employment lawyer.

I am actually interested in this. If you are similarly interested in the subject rather than making snarky comments, we might both learn something.

If you give me the full citations I can look them up.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You're the lawyer apparently. Look at the Liddiard, Williams, Cosgrove, Gosden, Laws cases. Tell me the difference between those and swinging?

Tell me the test the employer has to apply.

I Googled all those plus swinging and got nothing. Full names?

If you're an employment lawyer, than you know them. Lawtel broken?"

Is Liddiard the 2001 football hooligan case. If so, I fail to see the relevance of a case where a guy was sacked because he had committed a criminal offence

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

You're not a lawyer, you're just pretending and you don't understand.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why is it that wnenever anyone poses a question which in the end involves a legal position that nobody asks the legal folk? There must be one or two who are also swingers surely?

because most law is based on case law - so need specifics to be able to determine what the likely outcome in court would be (based on previous)

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You're not a lawyer, you're just pretending and you don't understand.

I have found the personnel today article from 2015 that you found and which mention the five cases you mention.

None of them relate to swinging at all. I will take from that that you are not aware of any examples of people being sacked for swinging.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

"You're not a lawyer, you're just pretending and you don't understand.

I have found the personnel today article from 2015 that you found and which mention the five cases you mention.

None of them relate to swinging at all. I will take from that that you are not aware of any examples of people being sacked for swinging. "

You don't get the point do you? You don't get how legal concepts work, which proves that you are not a lawyer.

You don't understand what those cases say about the law.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You're not a lawyer, you're just pretending and you don't understand.

I have found the personnel today article from 2015 that you found and which mention the five cases you mention.

None of them relate to swinging at all. I will take from that that you are not aware of any examples of people being sacked for swinging.

You don't get the point do you? You don't get how legal concepts work, which proves that you are not a lawyer.

You don't understand what those cases say about the law.

Go on then, enlighten me. What do these cases say about the law. Talk me through Williams, for example, where it was found to be unlawful for a employer to sack someone for being violent and abusive at a work do.

Whats the principle there?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

The point is, if you were a lawyer, then you would understand. Tell me your real job, and then I will do that for you.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"The point is, if you were a lawyer, then you would understand. Tell me your real job, and then I will do that for you."

Ok, I'm am ice cream salesman. Off you go.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

Good quality ice-cream? It's hard to beat!

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"Good quality ice-cream? It's hard to beat!"

Waiting...

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

The point is this. If an employee can be dismissed for being in the paper as a football hooligan in a foreign country, because it had brought the employer into disrepute, then being exposed as a swinger in the hometown where the employee works is just as capable of doing so.

Take this example. - Amy is a hairdresser, at a hairdressers and they have a lot of old people or church-going people as customers, and Amy is exposed as a swinger. The old people and church-goers are horrified and boycott the salon and take their business elsewhere after making a complaint to the salon about her behaviour.

Are you seriously suggesting that the salon cannot sack Amy, after carrying out a reasonable investigation and having a reasonable belief in the truth of her being a swinger?

Are you saying that would be an unfair dismissal? That to sack her would be outside the band of reasonable responses of an employer. I.e. that no employer would sack in the circumstances?

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"The point is this. If an employee can be dismissed for being in the paper as a football hooligan in a foreign country, because it had brought the employer into disrepute, then being exposed as a swinger in the hometown where the employee works is just as capable of doing so.

Are you seriously suggesting that the salon cannot sack Amy, after carrying out a reasonable investigation and having a reasonable belief in the truth of her being a swinger?

Are you saying that would be an unfair dismissal? That to sack her would be outside the band of reasonable responses of an employer. I.e. that no employer would sack in the circumstances?"

So basically you are saying that an employer can sack an employee for bringing the employer into disrepute. Everyone knows that.

The issue is what constitutes bringing an employer in to disrepute. My view is that, given current sexual mores, for most jobs swinging wouldn't and I asked you for recent examples where being a swinger had been found to be bringing a company into disrepute and you have been unable to provide any.

You have given a theoretical example as to where an employer might have grounds to sack. In most cases they won't because most companies don't have a customer base consisting solely of church going old ladies.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

You still do not understand how employment law works. You do not need to compare swinging cases with swinging cases.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You still do not understand how employment law works. You do not need to compare swinging cases with swinging cases."

Do you think that engaging in unconventional but consensual sexual activity would bring an employer into disrepute in the same way as being convicted of a violent criminal offence?

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

That's not the test. The test is whether to sack someone for doing it is outside the band of reasonable responses that an employer can adopt. I.e. that no employer would sack, not just that some would and some would not.

Can you really say that no employer would sack in those circumstances?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As with all things legal - it depends on the circumstance. No need to argue

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By *orticiaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral

"The point is, if you were a lawyer, then you would understand. Tell me your real job, and then I will do that for you."

Definitely a lawyer - who else would hold so rigidly to their narrow frame of reference (actual reported cases of the sacking of a swinger) when all of the peripheral and general points have been put out?!

Like I said - semantics. Sacked, managed out, let go, not re-elected, lost a required professional affiliation ... All of these result in losing your job.

Employers have a broad scope under 'disrepute'. And honestly, how many swingers would really out themselves so publically by dragging out a long legal challenge via a tribunal?

I think it's safe to say that it is entirely possible that some people could lose their jobs as a result of being outed to an employer as a swinger - and it probably has happened, albeit undocumented.

To focus solely on documented cases where someone was expressely sacked for swinging is not looking at the broader picture

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"That's not the test. The test is whether to sack someone for doing it is outside the band of reasonable responses that an employer can adopt. I.e. that no employer would sack, not just that some would and some would not.

Can you really say that no employer would sack in those circumstances?"

If someone works in a corner shop, tells his employer he is a swinger and is sacked for being a swinger, then yes that would definitely be outside the responses of a reasonable employer. Ditto with many other jobs where the general public don't give a flying fuck about an employees sex life.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

So how does that sit with the person who received an offensive image on his home computer, sent it to a colleague's home computer from his home computer.

A customer had complained and refused to trade with the employer and the employer fairly sacked the employee?

That is the Gosden case.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"The point is, if you were a lawyer, then you would understand. Tell me your real job, and then I will do that for you.

Like I said - semantics. Sacked, managed out, let go, not re-elected, lost a required professional affiliation ... All of these result in losing your job.

Employers have a broad scope under 'disrepute'. And honestly, how many swingers would really out themselves so publically by dragging out a long legal challenge via a tribunal?

To focus solely on documented cases where someone was expressely sacked for swinging is not looking at the broader picture"

All fair points, as you say I am just focusing on whether it would be lawful. For most jobs, I don't think it would, but as you say, few people will want to put it to the test.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"So how does that sit with the person who received an offensive image on his home computer, sent it to a colleague's home computer from his home computer.

A customer had complained and refused to trade with the employer and the employer fairly sacked the employee?

That is the Gosden case."

The email was racist. The guy worked in the prison service via an agency and it was the prison service who complained.

I suggest that being exposed as employing a racist is more detrimental to an employer than employing a swinger.

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By *eedsandyMan
over a year ago

Leeds

You miss the point. The point (again) is that it was outside of work, to a colleague outside of work, yet the employer was able to dismiss.

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By *inkyLondonpairCouple
over a year ago

London

"You miss the point. The point (again) is that it was outside of work, to a colleague outside of work, yet the employer was able to dismiss.

Where have I ever said that an employer can't dismiss for conduct outside work? Of course he can, that's not what we're discussing.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think (and I am not a lawyer) that every case will turn on its facts and it sounds like there isn't sufficient (at least publicised) case law in the relevant jurisdiction(s) (or at least case law that is sufficiently contemporary to make an adequate judgement as to one's legal position).

Although as others have said, what the law permits and real life consequences certainly diverge at times (and the damage can be done even if it's not legally permissible).

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