FabSwingers.com forum: Married men

By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

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By *imkev76Couple
over a year ago

GOSPORT

My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol

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By *entle.ManMan
over a year ago

Slough

Same for me. I would not enjoy meeting someone under false pretenses so happy with that. But many men on Fabs seem too desperate to risk not meeting someone if they are honest.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

Mostly I think because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

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By *eeowlsMan
over a year ago

sheffield

"Mostly I think because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

My profile quotes I’m married and yes wife knows I’m on here as we had a cpls profile too!!

Plus I don’t get much interest either not sure if it’s for the reasons of being honest or not!!?

But I do tell my Mrs if I get any interest and when I meet!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesn't bother us, whether the wife knows or not.

You can never prove it regardless, we are simply here to play out scenarios and return to our normal lives.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We love married men. Especially when they try and pretend they're single. It's more fun for us to get them to out themselves.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It doesn't bother us, whether the wife knows or not.

You can never prove it regardless, we are simply here to play out scenarios and return to our normal lives. "

Ohh you guys are just here for great sex and not any drama..... you just figured out the swinging matrix

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By *lirtingentMan
over a year ago

Stroud

"We love married men. Especially when they try and pretend they're single. It's more fun for us to get them to out themselves. "

Oooohhhh you like married men do you....

Honesty is always the best policy. Which is why I am upfront in my profile.

Yes, it seems yo put a lot of women and couples off, but that's fine, we all have our preferences. It does save a lit if wasted time, which is good.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

"
a sense of fair play maybe or a bigger playing field or they forgot...... easily done or need to know basis

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think my profile let's everyone know about my status lol

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By *uv2kissMan
over a year ago

fenland

It's nearly always double standards.

Guys are happy to play with married women, or indeed any women lol.

But to a lot married guys are cheats.

But I think that says more about men than women.

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By *elshkinkyMan
over a year ago

south wales

A lot of women I talk to on here are married and their partner doesn’t know. Every person has their own situation and not here to be judged.

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By *arvest 84Man
over a year ago

SCAWBY, NEAR , BRIGG.

i am married with a single profile

if you read my profile you will see i have been totaly open and honest and have put it on there,

and yes my wife sue dose know that i am on fabs

, we are often in our lounge and sue is wathcing tv while i am on fabs.

we used to swing as a couple , but sue gave it up but is very happy for me to play.

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By *arvest 84Man
over a year ago

SCAWBY, NEAR , BRIGG.

please feel free to comment on my profile and tell me if you think that i am being open and honest about myself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It doesn't bother us, whether the wife knows or not.

You can never prove it regardless, we are simply here to play out scenarios and return to our normal lives.

Ohh you guys are just here for great sex and not any drama..... you just figured out the swinging matrix "

Hahaha I think people forget, its not tinder

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By *iffy1968Man
over a year ago

STAFFORD

We prefer guys to be honest , we had 1 guy a few months back asking to meet , sent us a recent pic off his holiday and he'd got a wedding band on , when we asked where he'd been he said away for a romantic break with his wife yet he was addiment on his profile he was single ! If your married and your wife knows not a problem for us

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By *S1407Couple
over a year ago

dartford

We normally meet as a couple as I prefer my gorgeous wife being there but on the few occasions I have met a lady alone I insist on the ladies talking by phone first so they know it’s genuine. I’ve found most women do not want to play behind another women’s back

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By *ne Speak and SpellMan
over a year ago

Greenwich

I'm very clear that I'm married in my profile (even using a similar username to our main profile).

Why is it seperate? Well the couples profile seems to attract more single men and couples (looking for another couple), but rarely single women or couples looking for a male.

It is definitely a lot quieter than our joint profile, but I think people do appreciate the honesty.

I'm completely transparent with my wife with regards to any contact (she actually quite likes hearing about it)

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"I'm very clear that I'm married in my profile (even using a similar username to our main profile).

Why is it seperate? Well the couples profile seems to attract more single men and couples (looking for another couple), but rarely single women or couples looking for a male.

It is definitely a lot quieter than our joint profile, but I think people do appreciate the honesty.

I'm completely transparent with my wife with regards to any contact (she actually quite likes hearing about it) "

I prefer married men but only if they're wife lets them play seperately which is very few and far between... Hot husbands are very welcome to message me

But what I despise is Cheaters. They will be blocked

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A lot of women on here with judgement , that’s why I only meet other guys . I’m only on here for meets not posting daily pics , or webcam ,with guys we both know what we want .

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By *onkey_boy87Man
over a year ago

derby

This is a site for people to play out their fantasies. It's not a dating site. I see no issue if the bloke is married. Why women or couples would take the moral high ground baffles me, I mean it's not like you know their wife.

You meet you all have fun and then return back to your normal lives.

It's their relationship and their choice if they are playing away. I mean not many people are looking to get emotionally involved with anyone from here.

I've fucked plenty of married women and women in casual relationships. I have also had a partner and been on this site. I don't see the big deal it always NSA sex anyway

Lol. By the way I am single at the time of writing this message

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol"

Me and mine too. Such is life.

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By *UCKDOLLYWoman
over a year ago

scotland

"A lot of women I talk to on here are married and their partner doesn’t know. Every person has their own situation and not here to be judged. "

THIS ^

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"A lot of women I talk to on here are married and their partner doesn’t know. Every person has their own situation and not here to be judged.

THIS ^"

We won’t meet people who are cheating on their partners , whether that’s us as a couple or individually meeting “singles”, and we would know 99% of the time, it’s so easy to spot. If unsure we won’t meet them. We’re not judgemental we just don’t want to get to know people who have those values

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By *ev_1Couple
over a year ago

Bickliegh

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol"
correct

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By *aughtywifeandhimCouple
over a year ago

luton

I'm married and approach women and couples to play without my wife, when she is unavailable but couples and single women mostly don't believe I'm allowed until wife actually tells them when we are at club or party's, but I can understand that as there are thousands of both male and females who do cheat, but then again we don't interegate the ones we meet at the club some have genuine reasons

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By *OR THE WIFES PLEASUREMan
over a year ago

plymouth

Honest gent here and replies to a message what's all that about lol

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By *urtleJRCouple
over a year ago

Ystradgynlais

[Removed by poster at 17/06/20 13:23:39]

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By *urtleJRCouple
over a year ago

Ystradgynlais

Honestly we don't care. My last longterm fwb was single... But ended up in a relationship halfway through the 3 years I was fucking him. Neither he nor I told her, and we all knew each other through a mutual hobby (admittedly, I met her after they started a relationship). My hubby thought it was hot I was sleeping with the guy when he wasn't at his new girlfriend's, and that he had to be social with her in their hobby despite knowing. There was one time he and she were at an event, while the FWB was in bed with me.

We met a guy off here before who, it turned out, was married and had a kid.

It's their relationship, I don't care about being the other woman.

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By *ananas57Couple
over a year ago

lake ariel

I don't care if they are married or not I only do one offs now anyway

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I preffer meeting married men. Lessens the chance for emotional drama on thier part.

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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

My wife doesn't know she doesn't understand lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm honest about my circumstances on my profile but wasn't initially. Since being open i have noticed a massive decline in replies to my messages.

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By *andymanpaulMan
over a year ago

Wiltshire

I think the "cannot accomodate" can often be a clue.

I put it in my profile.

I do think it could be an option on your profile and then can be excluded from searches etc

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By *UCKDOLLYWoman
over a year ago

scotland

"I preffer meeting married men. Lessens the chance for emotional drama on thier part.

I agree

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By *ensual -lover69Man
over a year ago

Blackburn

"It doesn't bother us, whether the wife knows or not.

You can never prove it regardless, we are simply here to play out scenarios and return to our normal lives. "

very sexy lady x

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By *un beforeMan
over a year ago

london colney

Is an improvement on so called married profile and wife , lost interest years ago but he still hoping and pestering in cam rooms

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By *losguygl3Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

Clearly states Married on my profile.

My wife and I have played as a couple and separately for years. She hates the 'online thing'. She has tried it a couple of times and didn't like the constant flood of demanding single guys.

So it's just me on here now.

We have always been completely open and honest with each other about our fun. After all, if we both know and are happy for the other to enjoy themselves, there's no need for secret!

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"Mostly I think because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

My profile quotes I’m married and yes wife knows I’m on here as we had a cpls profile too!!

I don't think it's totally dependant on honesty, some women don't want to meet attached men on their own. They may be looking to get attached themselves and can't do that with someone who already is, so it would go nowhere and would be a waste of time.

Plus I don’t get much interest either not sure if it’s for the reasons of being honest or not!!?

But I do tell my Mrs if I get any interest and when I meet!!

Xx"
I don't think it's totally dependant on honesty, some women don't want to meet attached men on their own. They may be looking to get attached themselves and can't do that with someone who already is, so it would go nowhere and would be a waste of time for them.

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By *sGivesWoodWoman
over a year ago

ST. AUSTELL, CORNWALL

"please feel free to comment on my profile and tell me if you think that i am being open and honest about myself.

Yes, but a bit shouty for my taste.

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By *ussex team upMan
over a year ago

Sussex

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

It's best not to put your whole life story on there surely @! Lol

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

My profile states I'm married and both my wived know I'm here

I imagine if I wasn't so upfront about my lifestyle I'd actually talk with more women here. But I'd far rather be honest.

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By *aughty_nymphWoman
over a year ago

Cheltenham

I used to not have an issue with it until I met one guy a few times and I got a phone call from his heavily pregnant girlfriend on Christmas Day. That was not nice for anyone.

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By *aughty_nymphWoman
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"I used to not have an issue with it until I met one guy a few times and I got a phone call from his heavily pregnant girlfriend on Christmas Day. That was not nice for anyone. "

I will add I didn’t know he had a girlfriend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

"
Funny, just on another post where they are discussin men who claim they have a partner just to get a bit of dirty talk. I've never seen to point in lying about being married. I have never been approached by a married woman who is cheating. I guess it all deepend on why they are married, or stay in a marrage.

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By *00STERMan
over a year ago

nearby

From my experience I have fared much better on here getting past the initial barrier of getting a reply to a message not having it directly on my profile but being up front in conversation about it. In the end of the day it’s a marketing exercise - I’m going to do what works.

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By *r lotharioMan
over a year ago

newcastle-under-lyme

mine tells you everything

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By *otandpepperCouple
over a year ago

wolverhampton

Not our concern nor business. We are all adults. We are not disclosing our private details, and don't ask for them.

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By *OXO2018Couple
over a year ago

Norfolk

The same reason married women don't because there partners don't know and they wanna be discreet.

Personally we don't ask people's personal situation as it's of no concern to us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dont matter what I say women avoid me and men even though I say Im straight message me.

Shame Im not gay really I would have done alright on here, but alas I have been cursed by being heterosexual

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By *elshsunsWoman
over a year ago

Flintshire

It’s of no concern to me whether your married single .. Fab single or not so single or attached or living together or whatever ... not my business !!!

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By *orbidden eastMan
over a year ago

london dodging electric scooters

I think simply is just because we are men

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I dont hide anything, my profile states why I use it from time to time.

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By *elsbells2011Couple
over a year ago

fife

Don’t really see the need to lie about being married. Personally we don’t care we are here for one thing only. Not exactly like we are dating. Would rather guys just be honest instead of trying to hide it. Once had a guy say no perfume or makeup as he Was allergic and could I have a carrier bag to put his clothes in so no dog hair got on them. Final straw was when he requested I wore gloves so didn’t leave any marks on him, he was still trying to claim he was single. Ended up just cancelling the meet as was too much hassle. So much easier if he had just told truth

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By *eeowlsMan
over a year ago

sheffield

My wife knows everything about me being on here!! So knows everytime I have a chance to meet and definitely when I get meets which are rarely!!

She’s willing to confirm on the phone or even in person if needs be!!

On my profile and our old cpls profile we had and us still open in here it says I can meet and also numerous cpls whom we have met before know I have Debs (Wifeys) permission!!

Honesty is always the best way even if I don’t get meets because I am married!!

Daz xxx

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

A lot of men that visit me are mostly married blokes,it's none of my business and I don't ask why ,they usually tell me that the Mrs wont or can't so look for it elsewhere, I don't have a problem with it ,their shit not mine

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Are they obliged to?!?!

I'm a vegetarian. Should I disclose that?

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Are they obliged to?!?!

I'm a vegetarian. Should I disclose that?"

Yes especially when they are lying about it saying they're single when they're not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Dont matter what I say women avoid me and men even though I say Im straight message me.

Shame Im not gay really I would have done alright on here, but alas I have been cursed by being heterosexual

"
Give it time.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Are they obliged to?!?!

I'm a vegetarian. Should I disclose that?

Yes especially when they are lying about it saying they're single when they're not. "

Is it perhaps because they are trying to fit your latest fantasy?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To me there’s no difference between a guy who is single and a guy who is playing with his wife’s consent, I have the same boundaries for both! So I wouldn’t really need it to be on their profiles

and if they’re telling you at some point, surely there’s no issue?

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By *lbinoGorillaMan
over a year ago

Redditch

"To me there’s no difference between a guy who is single and a guy who is playing with his wife’s consent, I have the same boundaries for both! So I wouldn’t really need it to be on their profiles

and if they’re telling you at some point, surely there’s no issue?"

Titch, please don't try being logical and rational in this thread....

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Are they obliged to?!?!

I'm a vegetarian. Should I disclose that?

Yes especially when they are lying about it saying they're single when they're not. "

As far as I'm aware, these men aren't contravening the terms and conditions of the site, and they're not committing any criminal offence.

From which rulebook are you speaking from?

At the end of the day, it's entirely irrelevant.

It's like buying a car from autotrader and kicking off because a guy lied about his hair colour.

I've never been married, but if I was, I also wouldn't state it on here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And there's no women on fab doing this right?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive come across many married ladies playing as single here. Same as guys...some are open, some are not. Some partner knows, some they don't.

I see it as THEIR choice....it's their relationship after all and none of my business.

I also accept that, and why, some will not play with people in that situation. Again it's their choice and folks should just accept that...

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Are they obliged to?!?!

I'm a vegetarian. Should I disclose that?

Yes especially when they are lying about it saying they're single when they're not.

As far as I'm aware, these men aren't contravening the terms and conditions of the site, and they're not committing any criminal offence.

From which rulebook are you speaking from?

At the end of the day, it's entirely irrelevant.

It's like buying a car from autotrader and kicking off because a guy lied about his hair colour.

I've never been married, but if I was, I also wouldn't state it on here."

It be total waste of eachothers time not disclosing an important information for me to know. Me personally would not even talk to a cheat, let alone fuck him. I'm sure there are many members who feel the same way as there's many members thrive on cheating. Just not me. So I like to know how to spot them apart from obviously asking them.

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By *ifeandhubby400Couple
over a year ago

Arse hole of nowhere ,Scotland

"It doesn't bother us, whether the wife knows or not.

You can never prove it regardless, we are simply here to play out scenarios and return to our normal lives. "
100% this who are we to judge others ,what happens in the bedroom stays there and we go back to our "normal" life no harm done ,no one is a saint ...

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By *aughtybynature73Couple
over a year ago

oswestry

We have met many men who have openly admitted their married. It's their problem not ours and they have to live with it if they caught. I guess the same applies to the married ladies on here x

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"We have met many men who have openly admitted their married. It's their problem not ours and they have to live with it if they caught. I guess the same applies to the married ladies on here x"

Personally, I just want to meet men on couple profiles but not many women want to loan out their husbands. I want a married man. Just an honest one who wife approves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They're fab single

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh tell us aboutit a while back now we was looking for a single gentleman to join us for some fun. We exchanged pics had a chat he said he could accommodate. Brilliant we thought until the day before he could no longer accommodate cause his girlfriend who btw knows is on here with her blessings had change her shift pattern.

Blocked straight away

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Are they obliged to?!?!

I'm a vegetarian. Should I disclose that?

Yes especially when they are lying about it saying they're single when they're not.

As far as I'm aware, these men aren't contravening the terms and conditions of the site, and they're not committing any criminal offence.

From which rulebook are you speaking from?

At the end of the day, it's entirely irrelevant.

It's like buying a car from autotrader and kicking off because a guy lied about his hair colour.

I've never been married, but if I was, I also wouldn't state it on here.

Why a person's relationship with another person has any relevance to you, and what difference it would make is beyond me. However, I think you're well within your rights to choose who you want to fuck. If that's how you feel, and if that's what you want, who am I to tell you that you're wrong?

Unfortunately though, people aren't obliged to state facts. I can't be doing with psycho women - I think they should be obliged to take a psychoanalysis test and publish the results here for my personal analysis. Unfortunately though, I'm unable to persuade the owners of the site to incorporate it into the sites terms and conditions.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are on Fab to meet other likeminded people for sexual fun.

Their relationship status/history is not our business. We don’t ask, if they offer the information that’s their decision. If they come to our house we don’t want to be relationship counsellors (which has happened)

What’s worse in our eyes is when we’ve met with couples and the male half has asked me if I’d meet him alone or wants my mobile number.

Also what about in clubs in the heat of the moment? Does anyone ask the male if he’s married? Not from what I’ve seen!

Miss V

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why ruin the chances of a free fuck and unlimited titillating tittlation

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester

"We are on Fab to meet other likeminded people for sexual fun.

What’s worse in our eyes is when we’ve met with couples and the male half has asked me if I’d meet him alone or wants my mobile number.

Also what about in clubs in the heat of the moment? Does anyone ask the male if he’s married? Not from what I’ve seen!

Miss V"

Lol, a full legal disclosure upon entry to a club. If you're married, you have to wear a red wristband to all the ladies can avoid you for being a dirty cheat!

You have to wear a yellow band for each kid that you have produced, all in the interests of women's analytics. Haha!

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By *arbellsWoman
over a year ago

Cambridge

It's totally up to the man/woman to disclose whether they are married/in a relationship but I would rather know so I can decline. I've met a few men who told me they were single and then go threatened by his wife/partner, found out where i lived and went full on nuts (which I understand) so yes meeting married men does impact my life for those saying it doesn't.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We are on Fab to meet other likeminded people for sexual fun.

What’s worse in our eyes is when we’ve met with couples and the male half has asked me if I’d meet him alone or wants my mobile number.

Also what about in clubs in the heat of the moment? Does anyone ask the male if he’s married? Not from what I’ve seen!

Miss V

Lol, a full legal disclosure upon entry to a club. If you're married, you have to wear a red wristband to all the ladies can avoid you for being a dirty cheat!

You have to wear a yellow band for each kid that you have produced, all in the interests of women's analytics. Haha!"

Naughty! You’ve just put quite a few men off from ever found to a cub!

Funny tho!

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Why ruin the chances of a free fuck and unlimited titillating tittlation"

And have their wives chasing after you afterwards? No thanks, rather not be part of ruining a marriage and all that drama when I can fuck a single man or married man who wife has given permission

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By *omer47Man
over a year ago

leigh

If its fine for a married woman to meet on here why do married men get ignored or slated for cheating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Mostly I think because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

This.

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By *illwalkerMan
over a year ago

South Lincs

I know a married woman who prefers meets with married men. She feels it avoids the risk of emotional complications, both parties know they are just looking for no strings fun, not a serious deeper relationship.

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By *ornishLustMan
over a year ago

portsmouth

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"I know a married woman who prefers meets with married men. She feels it avoids the risk of emotional complications, both parties know they are just looking for no strings fun, not a serious deeper relationship."

I prefer married men for this reason and other reasons.makes the sexual experience more fun and kinkier

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"If its fine for a married woman to meet on here why do married men get ignored or slated for cheating. "

Tbh any cheater can get slated. I only said married men as I personally wanted to hear from women's experience about finding out about married men who were cheating.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

thou shall not judge

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By *illwalkerMan
over a year ago

South Lincs

I prefer married men for this reason and other reasons.makes the sexual experience more fun and kinkier"

Oh yes, I love uncomplicated kinky fun!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why ruin the chances of a free fuck and unlimited titillating tittlation

And have their wives chasing after you afterwards? No thanks, rather not be part of ruining a marriage and all that drama when I can fuck a single man or married man who wife has given permission "

Awwww Jasmine you misunderstood me .

The guy doesn't give a fuck about all that he just wants what I said and you and his Mrs don't get to find out

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have you read your profile lately ?

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By *ebwizMan
over a year ago

Clevedon

"Mostly I think because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

My profile quotes I’m married and yes wife knows I’m on here as we had a cpls profile too!!

Same here. She knows as we had a couples profile once

Plus I don’t get much interest either not sure if it’s for the reasons of being honest or not!!?

But I do tell my Mrs if I get any interest and when I meet!!

Xx"

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Have you read your profile lately ?

Have you read the post properly is more like it?

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Mostly I think because they're damned if they do and damned if they don't.

My profile quotes I’m married and yes wife knows I’m on here as we had a cpls profile too!!

Same here. She knows as we had a couples profile once

Plus I don’t get much interest either not sure if it’s for the reasons of being honest or not!!?

But I do tell my Mrs if I get any interest and when I meet!!

Xx"

Again this post is not about consented married men on this site. It's about single male profiles claiming they are single when in actual fact they are married or in a serious relationship

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

"If its fine for a married woman to meet on here why do married men get ignored or slated for cheating. "
I must say I've noticed a massive difference between married men and women cheating on here and the blokes get looked upon in a very dim light

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"If its fine for a married woman to meet on here why do married men get ignored or slated for cheating. I must say I've noticed a massive difference between married men and women cheating on here and the blokes get looked upon in a very dim light "

But you think there's less number of female cheaters? I don't think it's about being married. It's about being a cheater and not being honest about it to the person you want to meet on fab.

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By *ickdasterdly51Man
over a year ago

Lingfield

Agreed, it's about honesty to your partner and the person you are meeting up with. Whilst being married is relevant so many people now are not married but are in permanent relationships there is probably just as much cheating going on by unmarried people than married people. It's all about honesty and letting people make their minds up knowing all the facts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol"

Have to agree with you. If your honest about being married, people aren’t interested. But I wouldn’t want to lie about it! Lose lose situation really!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"We prefer guys to be honest , we had 1 guy a few months back asking to meet , sent us a recent pic off his holiday and he'd got a wedding band on , when we asked where he'd been he said away for a romantic break with his wife yet he was addiment on his profile he was single ! If your married and your wife knows not a problem for us "

What about if she doesn’t know?

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By *omesticated_VixenWoman
over a year ago

sw London

My husbands profile says he is married also has our couples account and this one in his profile so nothing is hidden

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol

Have to agree with you. If your honest about being married, people aren’t interested. But I wouldn’t want to lie about it! Lose lose situation really! "

But wouldn't you want the right person to accept your situation. For example, you're not so readily available for them? I'm all for married men as long as their wife knows about his activities

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By *ohnjones3210Man
over a year ago

Chester

What about if she doesn’t know?"

Then you deserve the death penalty for adultery!

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"My husbands profile says he is married also has our couples account and this one in his profile so nothing is hidden "

Thats good. That's what I prefer married or men with gf to do, but be honest and upfront. Then the right person will know the situation before getting involved. Fine if you're in a club, randy, didn't have that conversation, you wouldn't know and you never see them again. But to say you want a fwb and then later down the line find out they not readily available is just wasting each others time? I prefer honesty. I'm not available much for men. Hence why I'm on this site, looking for something casual but I'm not married or cheating

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

If there's any local married blokes who wants discreet edging give me a shout out and we can sort something for when it's safe to meet

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By *he Happy ManMan
over a year ago

Merseyside

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Their wife/girlfriend obviously doesn't know.

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By *he Happy ManMan
over a year ago

Merseyside

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Ask them if you can speak to their wife/girlfriend. They will soon run a mile.

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By *admedic23Man
over a year ago

all over the place

[Removed by poster at 21/06/20 13:34:51]

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By *admedic23Man
over a year ago

all over the place

"Dont matter what I say women avoid me and men even though I say Im straight message me.

Shame Im not gay really I would have done alright on here, but alas I have been cursed by being heterosexual

"
i know exactly how you feel mate lol, no female interest at all but if i was gay id be living the life of riley

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Aside from a recent update, my martial status is right up the top of my profile. No point in hiding it.

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Dont matter what I say women avoid me and men even though I say Im straight message me.

Shame Im not gay really I would have done alright on here, but alas I have been cursed by being heterosexual

i know exactly how you feel mate lol, no female interest at all but if i was gay id be living the life of riley "

Shame gay men don't like women as I find some gay men more attractive

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Dont matter what I say women avoid me and men even though I say Im straight message me.

Shame Im not gay really I would have done alright on here, but alas I have been cursed by being heterosexual

i know exactly how you feel mate lol, no female interest at all but if i was gay id be living the life of riley "

I think its mainly because more men than women enjoy swinging, so the numbers are totally out numbered if you're looking for a single woman. Better to find couples?

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By *admedic23Man
over a year ago

all over the place

Everytime i meet a nice girl and they find out i spend on average 9 months out of the country per year it fucks up every chance of sex, relationship or marriage so i dont have to hide anything from anyone

hehe wouldnt change it though to be fair, its a cracking job

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By *r Appreciator.Man
over a year ago

Bedfordshire.

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

"
. Probably for the same reason the "single" women do.

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"I'm the opposite - genuinely single and been accused in PM this afternoon of being married / attached and lying about it.

Was told I've "worked out how to get round it", whatever the hell that was supposed to mean

If they’re arsey in messages mate, they’re going to be arsey in person. Look at it as a narrow escape, block them and move on. Plenty of nice people to meet out there

I agree - completely irrational, and extremely judgmental.

In fact, I've had a run in with that individual before, and she was a pain the arse then, too.

But this was in a conversation that started off about something completely different.

And she blocked me, which saves me a job, I suppose

Do you not know you cannot discuss private messages in the forums? It’s against site rules? The person who messaged you may be reading the forums!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm open about my situation on my profile.

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Everytime i meet a nice girl and they find out i spend on average 9 months out of the country per year it fucks up every chance of sex, relationship or marriage so i dont have to hide anything from anyone

hehe wouldnt change it though to be fair, its a cracking job "

Just have casual fun dates? Most men do?

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By *elshkinkyMan
over a year ago

south wales

You’ll be judged by some whatever you do. I’m honest but not to bothered if my situation annoys people tbh.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Always go for married men.Less clingy amd potentially safer

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By *dinburghsexMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

I guess that’s their choice to do that. We all make our own choices don’t we.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm honest, married and have a beard.... What hope you I have... Just checking my lottery numbers... More chance there..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Always go for married men.Less clingy amd potentially safer

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"You’ll be judged by some whatever you do. I’m honest but not to bothered if my situation annoys people tbh. "

Isn't it more about transparency and honesty?

Again my kink is a married man but only with a consenting wife

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By *admedic23Man
over a year ago

all over the place

hehe wouldnt change it though to be fair, its a cracking job

Just have casual fun dates? Most men do?

They seem to be getting harder and harder to come by now days lol, i like nothing more than casual dates and a bit of harmless fun but i aint even getting that i must have aged alot recently

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By *etsplay200Couple
over a year ago

Hagley

"Always go for married men.Less clingy amd potentially safer

agree.

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

hehe wouldnt change it though to be fair, its a cracking job

Just have casual fun dates? Most men do?

They seem to be getting harder and harder to come by now days lol, i like nothing more than casual dates and a bit of harmless fun but i aint even getting that i must have aged alot recently

Yeah it's more what real youngsters do. like in early 20s

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By *un beforeMan
over a year ago

london colney

Make a change from the couple profile , where the lost intrest years ago aNd thought they had both left fab , but husband is still on and being a demander in chat

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

It’s a general rule of sales & marketing - you don’t list the bad points about your product in your advert.

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

It’s a general rule of sales & marketing - you don’t list the bad points about your product in your advert."

being on fab, there be more likely people who really don't mind people cheating so might as well be honest from the beginning?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

It’s a general rule of sales & marketing - you don’t list the bad points about your product in your advert.

being on fab, there be more likely people who really don't mind people cheating so might as well be honest from the beginning? "

Have you ever seen the flak married men playing alone get in these forums?

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

It’s a general rule of sales & marketing - you don’t list the bad points about your product in your advert.

being on fab, there be more likely people who really don't mind people cheating so might as well be honest from the beginning?

Have you ever seen the flak married men playing alone get in these forums?

erm yes plenty

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have the same problem, no one, it seems, wants to meet a married guy

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"I have the same problem, no one, it seems, wants to meet a married guy

maybe less judgement is made in clubs?

Personally i wouldn't want a cheater. But a wife offering their husband is fair game

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By *ensual -lover69Man
over a year ago

Blackburn

"It doesn't bother us, whether the wife knows or not.

You can never prove it regardless, we are simply here to play out scenarios and return to our normal lives. "

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By *ilk_TrayMan
over a year ago

Hampshire

It’s disclosed on my profile

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

i had vile messages from married men. They should be lucky to have someone special and not abuse that right by acting a twat

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By *losguygl3Man
over a year ago

Gloucester

"i had vile messages from married men. They should be lucky to have someone special and not abuse that right by acting a twat"

Report them. Get them banned. None of us need abusive arse holes ruining the fun for anyone

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By *S1407Couple
over a year ago

dartford

I ask the woman to talk to my wife by phone and hear directly from her. Only happened 3 times but everyone was so much more relaxed as a result.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

Yet another married men bashing thread

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By *aughty_builder87Man
over a year ago

Keston

Been open and honest from day one. Whether its my married status or my profile or my messages no luck through my own profile. Had 2 meets with the same girl 1 social 1 play but that was organised by my wife through our couples profile, hence the vari.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Does the same apply to married women?

My partner has absolutely zero physical interest and does now want to participate in anything yet is happy for me to be here. I share everything with them.

So for all intents and purposes for FAB I am single.

If I put anything else on my profile I’m inundated with people trying to encourage my partner to play too

Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. But I always disclose once chats have reached a certain point

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By *ightAssSissyMan
over a year ago

Gosport

I'm maw no, wife not know I also a CD tight ass bottom looking xxxx

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By *ightAssSissyMan
over a year ago

Gosport

I'm in gosport bi Tight ass bottom CD looking to be someone's sissy CD slut bitch ?? ?? ?? ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol"

Yes you're buggered if you do and buggered if you don't

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol"

Damned if you do and damned if you don't! I've even referenced our couples profile where we have veris and photos are in the same bedroom and I'm still invisible!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol

Damned if you do and damned if you don't! I've even referenced our couples profile where we have veris and photos are in the same bedroom and I'm still invisible!

Maybe some women just don’t want to meet attached guys regardless of the situation.

It is what it is.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

This site isn't much good for the average single straight men

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By *aughty_builder87Man
over a year ago

Keston

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol

Damned if you do and damned if you don't! I've even referenced our couples profile where we have veris and photos are in the same bedroom and I'm still invisible!

Maybe some women just don’t want to meet attached guys regardless of the situation.

It is what it is."

This is true. All you can do is remain respectful and hope you are lucky. Fingers crossed things change.

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol

Damned if you do and damned if you don't! I've even referenced our couples profile where we have veris and photos are in the same bedroom and I'm still invisible!

So many guys on here to choose from and unfortunately married men even if they have permission to play are not in the high percentage of being favoured. Complaining about it in the forums will also lessen the attraction.

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By *lasphemousGirlWoman
over a year ago

Cambs

"My husband’s single profile does say that. Avoids any misunderstandings - although rarely gets replies because he’s so honest about it. Guess men can’t win lol"

This is true for my other half too, but honest is the best way for us.

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By *nique_GymMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Some interesting contributions here, and an interesting thread. I see both sides, married men offer less of an emotional risk to singles and couples. I rarely play but my partner is playing on her own, one interesting observation is this! When she asks the married or attached guys if they have a significant other they all say yes is that a problem. She then asks them the following...... ‘what if you found your wife or girlfriend on here, with numerous verifications from single men, couples and from clubs, meets and gang bangs..... how would you feel on finding that out’ to date only one man has responded with that he would love it!

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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"Oh tell us aboutit a while back now we was looking for a single gentleman to join us for some fun. We exchanged pics had a chat he said he could accommodate. Brilliant we thought until the day before he could no longer accommodate cause his girlfriend who btw knows is on here with her blessings had change her shift pattern.

Blocked straight away "

This bugs me a bit...

My husband knows everything i do, the sites I'm on and even who I'm currently having conversation with.

However, there is no way I'd kick him out of our house so I could meet. So if his shifts changed (unlikely, but possible) I'd be letting the other person know (and likely cancelling the meet or at best arranging a hotel). Surely having respect for your partner is important. Not a bloackable offence?!

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By *reamblueMan
over a year ago

London

I think single guys will always be a more attractive proposition than married ones. Despite society thinking this is a naughty place, genuine fabbers seem to have plenty of integrity and don't want to get involved if they suspect deception

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith

"Some interesting contributions here, and an interesting thread. I see both sides, married men offer less of an emotional risk to singles and couples. I rarely play but my partner is playing on her own, one interesting observation is this! When she asks the married or attached guys if they have a significant other they all say yes is that a problem. She then asks them the following...... ‘what if you found your wife or girlfriend on here, with numerous verifications from single men, couples and from clubs, meets and gang bangs..... how would you feel on finding that out’ to date only one man has responded with that he would love it!

People have asked me the same question, and I always reply “Fair play to her! She shouldn’t be going without either, and it probably explains why she’s usually too tired to play with me at home”

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith

"Yet another married men bashing thread

There’s security in predictability

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By *oiluvfunMan
over a year ago

Penrith

"A lot of women I talk to on here are married and their partner doesn’t know. Every person has their own situation and not here to be judged. "

Exactly this

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By *orthern StarsCouple
over a year ago

Durham, North Yorkshire and can travel

Probably because if it's on their profile they will get a torrent of abusive messages. There is no need for it but some people can't help themselves but judge others and be hurtful with it.

We don't blame them one bit for not making it common knowledge.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm Married and have a GF, and both know about each other, and happy for me to meet others from here.

The 3 of us have ever played together though, keeps things simple this way

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By *onyMad123Couple
over a year ago

nottingham/ derby

Take the time to speak to someone, like we have, they are married, they have consent to do what they need, but wife doesn't need or want to know, and thats up to them. I ensured i was comfortable with situation. My partner is married still but only on paper, everyone has different situations. Which its why its mega important, to us at least, to get to know someone and always play safe.

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Probably because if it's on their profile they will get a torrent of abusive messages. There is no need for it but some people can't help themselves but judge others and be hurtful with it.

We don't blame them one bit for not making it common knowledge."

Ok then say straight away you have a long term partner or married. I chatted to many men who alot later, it slips out... it's time wasting to find out so late.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

"I'm Married and have a GF, and both know about each other, and happy for me to meet others from here.

The 3 of us have ever played together though, keeps things simple this way"

Similar situation, i have a legal wife and I'm handfasted to another woman. Everyone knows, cbd we hang out together but don't all play together. My handfasted wife has her own legal husband and for a year he and I rode the same train into London for work.... Our conversation sometimes raised eyebrows talking about "our wife"

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By *herryblossom_BJ OP Woman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"I'm Married and have a GF, and both know about each other, and happy for me to meet others from here.

The 3 of us have ever played together though, keeps things simple this way

that's the difference "everyone knows"

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

"Probably because if it's on their profile they will get a torrent of abusive messages. There is no need for it but some people can't help themselves but judge others and be hurtful with it.

We don't blame them one bit for not making it common knowledge.

Ok then say straight away you have a long term partner or married. I chatted to many men who alot later, it slips out... it's time wasting to find out so late. "
it's not against the site rules tho is it ?

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"I'm Married and have a GF, and both know about each other, and happy for me to meet others from here.

The 3 of us have ever played together though, keeps things simple this way

Explain ‘handfasted’ please.

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

"I'm Married and have a GF, and both know about each other, and happy for me to meet others from here.

The 3 of us have ever played together though, keeps things simple this way

Explain ‘handfasted’ please. "
I think it's a pagen marriage festival called a handfasting

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By *astMidsCouple555Couple
over a year ago

Leicester

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Our view is only very very rarely does the wife really know

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"I'm Married and have a GF, and both know about each other, and happy for me to meet others from here.

The 3 of us have ever played together though, keeps things simple this way

Explain ‘handfasted’ please. I think it's a pagen marriage festival called a handfasting "

Together by joining of hands. Never heard the term before today...

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By *adyJayneWoman
over a year ago

Burnleyish (She/They)

"Explain ‘handfasted’ please. I think it's a pagen marriage festival called a handfasting

Together by joining of hands. Never heard the term before today...

It is a pagan ceremony, initially it lasts for a year and a day and then you can choose to repeat your vows to cement your commitment for a lifetime or go your separate ways.

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Explain ‘handfasted’ please. I think it's a pagen marriage festival called a handfasting

Together by joining of hands. Never heard the term before today...

It is a pagan ceremony, initially it lasts for a year and a day and then you can choose to repeat your vows to cement your commitment for a lifetime or go your separate ways. "

It sounds romantic.

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By *urygent1Man
over a year ago

North West

"It doesn't bother us, whether the wife knows or not.

You can never prove it regardless, we are simply here to play out scenarios and return to our normal lives. "

I openly admit to being married. She doesn't know I'm on Fab and many see that as a problem.

I'd rather be honest as we are meeting strangers so their has to be at least some trust to just have the first meet.

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By *bsinthe_boyMan
over a year ago

Luton

Handfasting is indeed a Pagan marriage ceremony. Also where "tying the knot" comes from. We decided to get "married" without any time specified. As my handfasted wife is practicing Pagan and we couldn't marry legally it made full sense. We were married by a Pagan priestess in a beautiful park surrounded by friends, selected family, our existing spouses. Co-husband made the bride's dress and my legal wife helped her into it on the day as well as helping her choose her shoes during a shopping day trip the week before. Our hands were bound by a close friend from the poly community, my legal wife's boyfriend and his wife brought a big cake.

At the reception in a pub my new mother in law bought shots for myself, new wife, her other husband and her boyfriend.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

My profile states so :p

I suppose who does different is a potential lier maybe?

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By *ing_Wookie_RodeoMan
over a year ago

stockport wasteland

Guys should just have a couples profile and have the females message and give phone calls from female to female first anyway to say yes its ok

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By *uminsiderMKMan
over a year ago

St Austell

The first line of my 'single male' profile states that I'm married - although it puts many people off, as a number of people have mentioned above, others aren't bothered one way or the other...

....and then, again as mentioned above, there are those who prefer meeting a married man, as they know it's 'safer' vis-a-vis emotional attachment, etc...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm open about my marriage but still get slated. I don't hide it ever and it's on my profile but people still Choose to slate me. What's others thought I get not everyone likes it but just say your not interested

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By *exy Two-Shoes40Man
over a year ago

bolton

Yes I am married another reason why I am on this site

because I am in a long sexual relationship with my wife if she does not know about this please let me explain this to you

many many moons ago we had had a car accident where it left my wife paralysed Henry no longer I'll sex because she is not interested in sex anymore

she knows I am playing away as long as I do not rub her face in it she is ok with it so some married men like to keep it a secret and some do not

So as a married man please do not judge me because I would not judge a woman who is playing away from home

you do not throw stones in a glass house

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By *rotic-TouchTV/TS
over a year ago

doncaster

"Handfasting is indeed a Pagan marriage ceremony. Also where "tying the knot" comes from. We decided to get "married" without any time specified. As my handfasted wife is practicing Pagan and we couldn't marry legally it made full sense. We were married by a Pagan priestess in a beautiful park surrounded by friends, selected family, our existing spouses. Co-husband made the bride's dress and my legal wife helped her into it on the day as well as helping her choose her shoes during a shopping day trip the week before. Our hands were bound by a close friend from the poly community, my legal wife's boyfriend and his wife brought a big cake.

At the reception in a pub my new mother in law bought shots for myself, new wife, her other husband and her boyfriend. "
yes indeed they tie a knot in the handfastening for each vow made

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By *hubaysiWoman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Yes I am married another reason why I am on this site

because I am in a long sexual relationship with my wife if she does not know about this please let me explain this to you

many many moons ago we had had a car accident where it left my wife paralysed Henry no longer I'll sex because she is not interested in sex anymore

she knows I am playing away as long as I do not rub her face in it she is ok with it so some married men like to keep it a secret and some do not

So as a married man please do not judge me because I would not judge a woman who is playing away from home

you do not throw stones in a glass house

I don’t meet married men as it’s cheating no matter what the reason is for doing it. I also think married ladies are cheaters too. It surprises me when cheaters say ‘at least I admit I’m married’ as if that makes it ok.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No idea why men who have 'single profile' tell you directly they married and their wife knows about them being on FAB. So why don't they disclose it on their profile?

Well isn’t it obvious dear? They’re not telling their wives they’re trying to get their ends away what else. Thought it would be obvious.

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