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"¡Bendito sea Dios! ¡Cayó, Cayó, Cayó!" I do hope the Venezuelan people prosper, but the USA's track record in Latin America is sanctions that tanks the economy or destabalisation of leadership for decades. There is never freedom for their people. | |||
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"¡Bendito sea Dios! ¡Cayó, Cayó, Cayó!" I wanted to take this paragraph from the last thread you wrote… " It's an ongoing operation/situation. Maybe let's not try and call the game here when we've barely had time to absorb kick-off, eh? Do you really think the idea from the USA is to just take Maduro and his wife into custody and then wipe their hands and leave VZ to it? C'mon, now. Trump has even stated that a continued US military presence will be required for the transitonary period. This is obviously the case, and always has been. " If there is a continued military presence, then he actually needs to go to congress for approval…. He is already skating around his article 2 executive powers by not going to them, and not informing the “gang of 8” (the leader and deputy leader of both parties in both houses of congress) of the ongoing mission before it was conducted This is where you are now going to find the story starts shifting for what the did to be legal under international and us law…. For example… they have changed the story from it being about fentanyl to it being about cocaine…. They are now also claiming that it wasn’t a military mission of regime change but a mission led by the DOJ about narco terrorism which just happened to need DOD help Someone is going to challenge the validity and legality, and probably not just maduro’s lawyers… they are going to claim presidential power overreach… | |||
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"I do hope the Venezuelan people prosper, but the USA's track record in Latin America is sanctions that tanks the economy or destabalisation of leadership for decades. There is never freedom for their people." Please. Don’t talk to me about “American” sanctions that tank the economy or destabilisation when it’s fucking Chavez and then Maduro who have taken over the government and military to oppress the population, leading to starvation, hyperinflation, mass exodus (a fucking THIRD of the population), mass corruption, kidn@p, torture, murder, drug trafficking… and on, and on, and on. And Cuba before that. This has been going on for DECADES in Latin America. No. It’s not the fucking US sanctions. Please, for the love of god wake the fuck up. | |||
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"If there is a continued military presence, then he actually needs to go to congress for approval…. He is already skating around his article 2 executive powers by not going to them, and not informing the “gang of 8” (the leader and deputy leader of both parties in both houses of congress) of the ongoing mission before it was conducted This is where you are now going to find the story starts shifting for what the did to be legal under international and us law…. For example… they have changed the story from it being about fentanyl to it being about cocaine…. They are now also claiming that it wasn’t a military mission of regime change but a mission led by the DOJ about narco terrorism which just happened to need DOD help Someone is going to challenge the validity and legality, and probably not just maduro’s lawyers… they are going to claim presidential power overreach…" The Venezuelan people don’t give a flying fuck about US congress. They don’t care about “International Law”… a made-up concept by first world superpowers to pressure and control weaker nations. Laws are only as real or as valid as their enforcement mechanism. You think Putin or Netanyahu are going to court any time soon? Absolutely not. Plus, the Venezuelan people have tried all the “legal” routes, all the international pleas, humanitarian organisations, etc for decades… with zero results. Maduro just said “nah, I’m still president”. So, basically, the people don’t give a shit what Trumps reasons or motivations are, or if his methods are “legal” in the eyes of the world. They’re just glad that someone finally, finally fucking did something about it. Again, from the mouth of a Venezuelan: “motives don’t erase outcomes”. End of. | |||
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"I do hope the Venezuelan people prosper, but the USA's track record in Latin America is sanctions that tanks the economy or destabalisation of leadership for decades. There is never freedom for their people. Please. Don’t talk to me about “American” sanctions that tank the economy or destabilisation when it’s fucking Chavez and then Maduro who have taken over the government and military to oppress the population, leading to starvation, hyperinflation, mass exodus (a fucking THIRD of the population), mass corruption, kidn@p, torture, murder, drug trafficking… and on, and on, and on. And Cuba before that. This has been going on for DECADES in Latin America. No. It’s not the fucking US sanctions. Please, for the love of god wake the fuck up." Please don't lecture me and make assumptions, I’m Latin American. We know dictators and some were backed by the USA. That’s why I question outside “rescue” missions. Let’s hope this ends up on the right side of history and truly helps Venezolanos, because they’re not free or prospering yet. | |||
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"Please don't lecture me and make assumptions, I’m Latin American. We know dictators and some were backed by the USA. That’s why I question outside “rescue” missions. Let’s hope this ends up on the right side of history and truly helps Venezolanos, because they’re not free or prospering yet." Even worse, then. You should know better than most the truth and the actual history instead of spouting bullshit. | |||
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"Please don't lecture me and make assumptions, I’m Latin American. We know dictators and some were backed by the USA. That’s why I question outside “rescue” missions. Let’s hope this ends up on the right side of history and truly helps Venezolanos, because they’re not free or prospering yet. Even worse, then. You should know better than most the truth and the actual history instead of spouting bullshit." I thought you were for the Venezolanos, saving them from dictatorship. What is this all about then? You bring in Cuba into the debate but ignore Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Brazil, Guatemala, Paraguay, Uraguay, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras and Haiti. | |||
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"One of the things we forget in Europe is that the USA has a long history of growing by taking over territory. It is a part of their DNA, dormant since WW2, but it is there." The USA is a young nation, and you’re making out like they’re somehow unique or worse than Europeans. You do realise that their “taking over territory DNA” is from when they were still Europeans, right? "They originally took most of the continent from the Indians. Then California and Texas from Mexico. Guam, Puerto Rico and the Philippines from the Spanish. Hawaii from the Hawaiians. Bought Alaska from the Russians and Louisiana from the French." Yeah, again, you keep saying “they” as if they’re separate from us Europeans… when “they” didn’t even exist yet, because when “they” took the continent… it was us, Europeans. "I think we are starting to see the next phase of an expansionist USA. Trump will set in motion a sequence of events that subsequent Presidents will be forced to follow." If the outcomes land, thank God. | |||
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"I thought you were for the Venezolanos, saving them from dictatorship. What is this all about then?" I am. Which is why I’m celebrating Maduro’s capture. Alongside all the Venezuelans (and the Cubans that I’ve seen, for that matter). What is what all about? You’ve done little so far except display a severe lack of understanding what you’re talking about. You’re gonna need be very clear in what you’re saying/asking. "You bring in Cuba into the debate but ignore Argentina, Chile, Bolivia, Brazil, Guatemala, Paraguay, Uraguay, El Salvador, Nicaragua, Honduras and Haiti." Case in point. Wtf are you saying/asking here? | |||
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"One of the things we forget in Europe is that the USA has a long history of growing by taking over territory. It is a part of their DNA, dormant since WW2, but it is there. The USA is a young nation, and you’re making out like they’re somehow unique or worse than Europeans. You do realise that their “taking over territory DNA” is from when they were still Europeans, right? They originally took most of the continent from the Indians. Then California and Texas from Mexico. Guam, Puerto Rico and the Philippines from the Spanish. Hawaii from the Hawaiians. Bought Alaska from the Russians and Louisiana from the French. Yeah, again, you keep saying “they” as if they’re separate from us Europeans… when “they” didn’t even exist yet, because when “they” took the continent… it was us, Europeans. I think we are starting to see the next phase of an expansionist USA. Trump will set in motion a sequence of events that subsequent Presidents will be forced to follow. If the outcomes land, thank God." The fact that they are a young nation is exactly why I am pointing out there is a history of territorial expansion in the USA and that we could we be seeing the next phase of that. That’s what young nations do when they have power. My underlying point is that we should not be surprised if the Americas in 50 years looks radically different from territorial perspective. | |||
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"It's an ongoing operation/situation. Maybe let's not try and call the game here when we've barely had time to absorb kick-off, eh? Do you really think the idea from the USA is to just take Maduro and his wife into custody and then wipe their hands and leave VZ to it? C'mon, now. Trump has even stated that a continued US military presence will be required for the transitonary period. This is obviously the case, and always has been." What do you imagine the plan is? As far as I can tell it's to deal with Delcy Rodriguez and as Trump said ""If she doesn't do what's right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro.". This sounds like a threat to murder Rodriguez if she doesn't cooperate. I assume the plan is to then threaten whoever replaces her. It's like Trump has watched too many gangster movies. You'll no doubt attempt to dismiss this reading with some sweary emotional language but what do you acually think is going to happen? "So? Why wouldn't he? Venezuela has the world's largest known oil reserves, more than anywhere in the Middle-East. The USA put a lot of time, money and resources into having lucrative trade with Venezuela prior to Chavez, only to have it all pulled/st0len." We could debate the legitimacy of a sovereign state nationalising it's natural resources. The situation in Venezuala goes all the way back back to 1976. AFAIK US oil companies were offered 40% continuing stakes and financial compensation but I guess it's debatable whether the terms were fair. But does that mean that you think that military action and the abduction of heads of state is a proper way to enforce business contracts? "And to quote a Venezuelan on the matter; "motives don't erase outcomes". The Venezuelan people don't care if Trump doesn't care but for the oil... they only care that he's the one who's finally done something about Maduro." So it seems that you concede that Trump has no interest in democracy for Venezuela yet you somehow expect the outcome will miraculously be totally different to all the other US interventions to force regime changes over past decades. | |||
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"Just watched Starmer on Sky News refuse to answer a direct question on whether the US broke international law overvtge Venezuela incident. He dodged and squirmed and refused to answer the question even though it was asked directly 4 or 5 times. He is a slimy, spineless shit." Otherwise known as a Politician.. 
Memories are short with such things, Michael Howard and Paxman is a good example..
#theyalldoit..   | |||
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"The Venezuelan people don’t give a flying fuck about US congress. They don’t care about “International Law”… a made-up concept by first world superpowers to pressure and control weaker nations. Laws are only as real or as valid as their enforcement mechanism. You think Putin or Netanyahu are going to court any time soon? Absolutely not. Plus, the Venezuelan people have tried all the “legal” routes, all the international pleas, humanitarian organisations, etc for decades… with zero results. Maduro just said “nah, I’m still president”. So, basically, the people don’t give a shit what Trumps reasons or motivations are, or if his methods are “legal” in the eyes of the world. They’re just glad that someone finally, finally fucking did something about it. Again, from the mouth of a Venezuelan: “motives don’t erase outcomes”. End of." It's not just about Venezuela. This action also has impact inside the US and ultimately could end up destabilizing much of the planet if other nations copy the US lead. I get that many reactionaries don't like the concept of international law but your notion that it was made up by superpowers to pressure and control weaker nations is the opposite of reality. The UN charter and many other international conventions and treaties came into being because of a desire to check the power of rogue states who imagined they could do whatever they liked. It's imperfect because the USA, Russia, China, France and UK didn't want to give up their power. But the intention behind international rules based order is to form alliances and concensus and protect weaker nations. What you are advocating is a return to the 19th century, presumably because of some extreme form of optimism were you think that "might is right" will solve problems that haven't been solved by international law. I understand the frustration but I also know that whenever someone says things couldn't get any worse they are often wrong. | |||
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"UK defence spending now only 12th highest in Nato, was 3rd when Labour took over. Britain increasingly an embarrassing irrelevance in international affairs such as this situation." From the House of Commons Library... "In the 2024/25 financial year, the UK spent £60.2 billion on defence. Spending plans set out in the 2025 Spending Review show that defence spending is expected to total £62.2 billion in 2025/26, increasing to £73.5 billion in 2028/29. This is equivalent to an annual average real-terms growth rate of 3.8% over this period." "Real-terms defence spending fell by 22% between 2009/10 and 2016/17 (from £59.2 billion to £46.2 billion in 2024/25 prices). It then started to rise again, recently returning to its 2010 levels. Real-terms spending has increased steadily since 2016/17, and is expected to continue to do so". The 22% fall in real-terms defence spending happened under the Tories. The shift in GDP relative spending rank is down to other European countries massively increasing their defence spending, something people like yourself presumably wanted to happen. Yet in absolute terms the UK still spends the third largest amount on defence in NATO (after the US and Germany). | |||
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"I get that many reactionaries don't like the concept of international law but your notion that it was made up by superpowers to pressure and control weaker nations is the opposite of reality. The UN charter and many other international conventions and treaties came into being because of a desire to check the power of rogue states who imagined they could do whatever they liked. It's imperfect because the USA, Russia, China, France and UK didn't want to give up their power. But the intention behind international rules based order is to form alliances and concensus and protect weaker nations. What you are advocating is a return to the 19th century, presumably because of some extreme form of optimism were you think that "might is right" will solve problems that haven't been solved by international law. I understand the frustration but I also know that whenever someone says things couldn't get any worse they are often wrong. " Genuine question: how do you enforce this? Every fibre in my being wants to agree with you but I can’t get over the observation that “law” without enforcement is meaningless. Who will _realistically_ enforce anything against the USA? | |||
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"Genuine question: how do you enforce this? Every fibre in my being wants to agree with you but I can’t get over the observation that “law” without enforcement is meaningless. Who will _realistically_ enforce anything against the USA?" It's essentially down to concepts of self-respect and a nation's standing amongst other nations. In practice there is also some practical blowback from breaking international law as other nations will alter their policies to take into account the disregard. We are still a long way off from universal law but it's a bit like how we behave in society. Even if there was no law enforcement (or belief in judgement in an afterlife) then most humans would still behave within certain moral norms. What Trump is doing is destroying the USA's "social standing" in the world. He clearly doesn't care about this, but I'd wager that many US citizens do. | |||
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"Lol people still banging on about the UN and 'international law'. Stick it in a letter to Putin. 🤣" People like Trump and Farage admire Putin because he doesn't give a damn about concepts like international law. Putin doesn't admire Trump or Farage, he sees them as tools. | |||
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"Genuine question: how do you enforce this? Every fibre in my being wants to agree with you but I can’t get over the observation that “law” without enforcement is meaningless. Who will _realistically_ enforce anything against the USA? It's essentially down to concepts of self-respect and a nation's standing amongst other nations. In practice there is also some practical blowback from breaking international law as other nations will alter their policies to take into account the disregard. We are still a long way off from universal law but it's a bit like how we behave in society. Even if there was no law enforcement (or belief in judgement in an afterlife) then most humans would still behave within certain moral norms. What Trump is doing is destroying the USA's "social standing" in the world. He clearly doesn't care about this, but I'd wager that many US citizens do. " Again, every fibre in my body wants to agree with you. _I_ don't want to live in a society where I am beholden to capricious power. Domestically I believe that still holds. However this idea of _international_ law is fundamentally broken. Wishful thinking isn't going to change that. Supra national bodies just don't work if one party has too much power. | |||
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"Again, every fibre in my body wants to agree with you. _I_ don't want to live in a society where I am beholden to capricious power. Domestically I believe that still holds. However this idea of _international_ law is fundamentally broken. Wishful thinking isn't going to change that. Supra national bodies just don't work if one party has too much power." We don't live in an ideal world. Bullies can still overwhelm us. But that doesn't mean we should just shrug and say why bother trying to make the world a safer and saner place. Most of us try to take small steps to improve things. Sometimes we fail and sometimes we succeed. On balance humanity seems to be very slowly advancing albeit with regular and terrible setbacks. But this slow progress will be completely undermined if we abandon the intellectual and political space to reactionaries. The main players are the US, EU and China. In my opinion the EU, despite many obvious failings, is a leader in trying to establish a rules based system. China is an opportunist and willing to go along with this as its principle goal is economic power in a relatively stable world. The US under the Trump administration is the spanner in the works. I think most US citizens aren't interested in world politics and just want to be comfortable but the MAGA movement has an ideological position that is only pretending to be in support of the average American. I am hopeful that the midterms will halt the MAGA movement and we'll see a return to more conventional US politics and a refocusing on the mutual advantages of an international rules based consensus. Maybe I am wrong and we are about to enter a frightening period of international conflict. | |||
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"Genuine question: how do you enforce this? Every fibre in my being wants to agree with you but I can’t get over the observation that “law” without enforcement is meaningless. Who will _realistically_ enforce anything against the USA? It's essentially down to concepts of self-respect and a nation's standing amongst other nations. In practice there is also some practical blowback from breaking international law as other nations will alter their policies to take into account the disregard. We are still a long way off from universal law but it's a bit like how we behave in society. Even if there was no law enforcement (or belief in judgement in an afterlife) then most humans would still behave within certain moral norms. What Trump is doing is destroying the USA's "social standing" in the world. He clearly doesn't care about this, but I'd wager that many US citizens do. " A technocratic led Europe has led to it stagnation. The US along with China and Russia are not playing by the rules Europe and Europeans believe are set in stone, by Europeans of the past. European society imploded with internal fractions delivering guilt led agendas that I suspect will be looked back on as a strange time in our history. We are over the hump on the way down the other side in terms of development, growth and leadership. We are not alone, Rome and many other great powers travelled this route, we are in the middle of the journey watching it collapse. There is no stopping Russia at present, Ukraine is evidence of that, and the US is no different it is strong and dominant. We have nothing to offer as a deterrent which in turn means we can't uphold international law, we have no teeth, but we have allowed it to be this way. | |||
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"Again, every fibre in my body wants to agree with you. _I_ don't want to live in a society where I am beholden to capricious power. Domestically I believe that still holds. However this idea of _international_ law is fundamentally broken. Wishful thinking isn't going to change that. Supra national bodies just don't work if one party has too much power. We don't live in an ideal world. Bullies can still overwhelm us. But that doesn't mean we should just shrug and say why bother trying to make the world a safer and saner place. Most of us try to take small steps to improve things. Sometimes we fail and sometimes we succeed. On balance humanity seems to be very slowly advancing albeit with regular and terrible setbacks. But this slow progress will be completely undermined if we abandon the intellectual and political space to reactionaries. The main players are the US, EU and China. In my opinion the EU, despite many obvious failings, is a leader in trying to establish a rules based system. China is an opportunist and willing to go along with this as its principle goal is economic power in a relatively stable world. The US under the Trump administration is the spanner in the works. I think most US citizens aren't interested in world politics and just want to be comfortable but the MAGA movement has an ideological position that is only pretending to be in support of the average American. I am hopeful that the midterms will halt the MAGA movement and we'll see a return to more conventional US politics and a refocusing on the mutual advantages of an international rules based consensus. Maybe I am wrong and we are about to enter a frightening period of international conflict. " I guess now is the time that the EU needs to step up and show that leadership? When do you think they will impose sanctions on the USA? | |||
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"I guess now is the time that the EU needs to step up and show that leadership? When do you think they will impose sanctions on the USA?" Ignoring trade wars, there won't be any direct sanctions on the US. What is happening instead is a major re-evaluation of European-US relations. Europe has become very dependent on the US so it's likley to take up to a decade to disengage. I think France (and to a lesser degree Germany and the UK) could make a lot of money out of military realignment. There's nothing to gain by European politicians dissing Trump. They'll at most make carefully calibrated statements like the Danish PM Nielsen pointing out the realities about Greenland. NATO seems in danger of collapse though. If the US tries to take Greenland or Canada then it will become NATO minus the USA. Things in the US could probably improve after Trump but the damage is done and won't be repaired for a generation. If the electorate could elect Trump twice then the US is only ever four years away from major change so is no longer a reliable partner for Europe. | |||
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"The fact that they are a young nation is exactly why I am pointing out there is a history of territorial expansion in the USA" Yeah... no, that's not what you said though, and not how it was framed, either. You know full well what you were implying. And it's inaccurate. Having a "history of territorial expansion" is like saying somewhere is a country that exists, or has existed at some point, it's THAT universal. There's nothing new, unique or special about the USA doing it. And the fact they are so young compared to pretty much everywhere else that also has a "history of territorial expansion" means that, if anything, it applies to them less. Certainly much less than Europeans. Your framing was totally dishonest/misleading. "and that we could we be seeing the next phase of that. That’s what young nations do when they have power." They did a rocket strike and a capture raid. Calm down. They happen every day. All over the world. This isn't the start of some WW3 global takeover. "What do you imagine the plan is?" Why do I need to imagine what the plan is when Trump and Rubio have already told us? We're missing a lot of details, but we've got the broad strokes. I could give quotes here but you already have/know them. "As far as I can tell it's to deal with Delcy Rodriguez and as Trump said ""If she doesn't do what's right, she is going to pay a very big price, probably bigger than Maduro.". This sounds like a threat to murder Rodriguez if she doesn't cooperate. I assume the plan is to then threaten whoever replaces her. It's like Trump has watched too many gangster movies." Or not enough gangster movies. What I want to know is why Rodriguez is even being given the courtesy of recognition and negotiation from the US in the first place? Why isn't she in the ground or behind bars alongside Maduro? Why on earth are we going to trust anyone who was part of or anywhere near the regime? Let alone longstanding, key, central members! | |||
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"I guess now is the time that the EU needs to step up and show that leadership? When do you think they will impose sanctions on the USA? Ignoring trade wars, there won't be any direct sanctions on the US. What is happening instead is a major re-evaluation of European-US relations. Europe has become very dependent on the US so it's likley to take up to a decade to disengage. I think France (and to a lesser degree Germany and the UK) could make a lot of money out of military realignment. There's nothing to gain by European politicians dissing Trump. They'll at most make carefully calibrated statements like the Danish PM Nielsen pointing out the realities about Greenland. NATO seems in danger of collapse though. If the US tries to take Greenland or Canada then it will become NATO minus the USA. Things in the US could probably improve after Trump but the damage is done and won't be repaired for a generation. If the electorate could elect Trump twice then the US is only ever four years away from major change so is no longer a reliable partner for Europe. " So to get back to the original point: _zero_ impact on Trump for his actions. He is free to do what ever he wants and everyone else is just a bystander. | |||
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"We could debate the legitimacy of a sovereign state nationalising it's natural resources." Why do that when we could debate the legitimacy of Chavez and then Maduro's oppressive regime coming into power in the first place? How legitimate was it to seize all the wealth and infrastructure and take it away from the Venezuelan people and into their own pockets instead? What happened to their oil industry is only the tip of a very dirty, very corrupt iceberg. "But does that mean that you think that military action and the abduction of heads of state is a proper way to enforce business contracts?" What happened to Venezuela/the Venezuelans is a crime against humanity and a massive injustice. If the USA wants favorable business contracts for taking out Maduro and his regime? Absofuckinglutely. Clean house. Get rid of every single one of them motherfuckers. Throw away the key. "So it seems that you concede that Trump has no interest in democracy for Venezuela" Why does it seem that? I'm saying the people of Venezuela don't care what Trump's motives are. If you're overboard in the middle of the sea with a rock tied to your ankle, treading water for the last 26 years and on the verge of drowning, are you really gonna care who it is throwing you a life preserver? Are you gonna question whether or not they have Congress' permission to do that? Or that "international law" has been strictly adhered to? No, you're not. You're going to climb out the sea, jump up and down for joy and hug and kiss the feet of your saviour. "It's not just about Venezuela. This action also has impact inside the US and ultimately could end up destabilizing much of the planet if other nations copy the US lead." Such overractionary, alarmist bollocks. One rocket attack and capture raid of a narco-terrotist "leader" of a failed South American state is not going to "destabilize the planet"... give me a break. These kinds of things are happening all over the world, and have been for decades. Have a cup of earl grey and sit down for five minutes before you have a heart-attack or something. Also, if by "copy the US's lead" you mean the removal of a tyrannical dictator at the head of an oppressive regime in a country where the people have suffered massively and have been hoping and praying for the last 26 years that exact thing would happen... GOOD! Get rid of the lot of 'em. There are too many up and running around the world. Pull them all up, root and stem. | |||
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"I get that many reactionaries don't like the concept of international law but your notion that it was made up by superpowers to pressure and control weaker nations is the opposite of reality." No it isn't. A law is only ever as real or as valid as it's enforcement mechanism. This is just the objective reality. Despite any and all intentions (good or ill). "The UN charter and many other international conventions and treaties came into being because of a desire to check the power of rogue states who imagined they could do whatever they liked. It's imperfect because the USA, Russia, China, France and UK didn't want to give up their power. But the intention behind international rules based order is to form alliances and concensus and protect weaker nations." Uh huh... and how's that panned out? "What you are advocating is a return to the 19th century, presumably because of some extreme form of optimism were you think that "might is right" will solve problems that haven't been solved by international law." Do you understand the difference between descriptors and prescriptors? Me saying that international law isn't a real thing when it comes to very powerful and/or corrupt leaders isn't the same thing as me advocating for anything, let alone the thing you said. "What Trump is doing is destroying the USA's "social standing" in the world. He clearly doesn't care about this, but I'd wager that many US citizens do." Only people suffering with TDS think this way, though. Even those who don't like him or disagree with his policies, if they are reasonable and rational thinkers, will accept a good thing as being a good thing, even if its for perceived "bad" or "wrong" reasons. | |||
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"Or not enough gangster movies. What I want to know is why Rodriguez is even being given the courtesy of recognition and negotiation from the US in the first place? Why isn't she in the ground or behind bars alongside Maduro? Why on earth are we going to trust anyone who was part of or anywhere near the regime? Let alone longstanding, key, central members!" You claim to have major insight yet want to know why on earth Trump is dealing with Rodriguez! | |||
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"You claim to have major insight yet want to know why on earth Trump is dealing with Rodriguez!" Pointing out I know the same broad strokes plan as everyone else because Trump and Rubio said so publicly is "major insight"??  | |||
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"So to get back to the original point: _zero_ impact on Trump for his actions. He is free to do what ever he wants and everyone else is just a bystander." Yes, from Trump's own perspective. But let's face it he's in the final few years of his life. He's had thoughts about St. Peter but reckons he can make it through the Pearly Gates on account of the countless wars he thinks he's ended. But from the perspective of the US in general how much damage has and will occur? | |||
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"Pointing out I know the same broad strokes plan as everyone else because Trump and Rubio said so publicly is "major insight"??" Maybe go back and read your own posts. You are getting highly excited about Maduro and his wife being abducted but you haven't answered my key question as to what you think will happen in the future. My prediction is that the Maduro/Chavismo regime will continue but with some of Trump's cronies added to the list of those extorting money out of the country. What's your prediction? | |||
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"So to get back to the original point: _zero_ impact on Trump for his actions. He is free to do what ever he wants and everyone else is just a bystander. Yes, from Trump's own perspective. But let's face it he's in the final few years of his life. He's had thoughts about St. Peter but reckons he can make it through the Pearly Gates on account of the countless wars he thinks he's ended. But from the perspective of the US in general how much damage has and will occur? " With maximum respect I think that ship sailed many months ago with Hegseth undermining NATO at the Munich Conference in February and then the tariff announcements in April. No one should have trusted the US for almost a year now. The point about Trumps age is more interesting. As I said on the previous thread I do wonder if we could see a move to much greater territorial expansion as part of his “legacy” Here is a very left field idea (that doesn’t mean I believe it, just following a thought experiment): Let’s say the latest National Security Strategy is actually a true reflection of Trumps priorities. If he was free of constraints (which seems to be the case) then what would he do? He seem to care about dominance of all of the Americas. He wants access to key strategic resources. He wants to stem the flow of migrants and drugs. He doesn’t care what others think of him. Short term, he leaves Venezuela alone and invades Panama instead. Turn it into a US territory just like Puerto Rico is. You instantly gain access to the most important strategic asset in the Americas (the canal) and have safe guarded ship access between the East and West coasts. Block the Darien Gap with a military line and you have instantly stopped a key migrant and narcotic route into the USA. Simultaneously invade Cuba (mainly because you can and that will play well in Florida) and run that as a territory as well. You have gained a key naval asset in the Caribbean. Offer a mutual assistance treaty to Costa Rica to keep them onside and then offer immediate, unfettered economic access to the US to all three countries/territories, thus giving them a huge incentive to cooperate. Tell the Venezuelans that they are basically now a protectorate. They have internal control of their country but they need to do what they are told. If they want to become a territory then accept US control and gain economic access. Trump knows no one is going to stop him militarily. He has left a hugely expanded US with access to key regional resources and capabilities. Madness? Probably. Possible? Why not? | |||
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"You are getting highly excited about Maduro and his wife being abducted" Your continued language use, such as "abducted" here, is interesting. It's quite telling of your viewpoint and moral allignment on the situation (not looking good for you). But yeah, I generally regard the capture/removal of a highly corrupt and tyrannical dictator at the head of a extremely oppressive and murderous narco-terrorist regime to be a good thing. Yeah. "but you haven't answered my key question as to what you think will happen in the future." Maybe your question isn't quite as "key" as perhaps you think it is, then. We know what the intended plan is going forwards. What I think could/would/might happen etc in the future isn't really relevant at this moment, particularly to the Venezuelan people who are trying to enjoy this long, long-waited win against a past full of pain, torment and suffering. "My prediction is that the Maduro/Chavismo regime will continue but with some of Trump's cronies added to the list of those extorting money out of the country." Then you are cooked, frankly. The fact that you place the USA at the table alongside Iran, Russia, Cuba, Columbia, China, Hamas/Hezbollah... all suckling at the teat of Chavismo together like buddies at a gentleman club, rather than seeing the USA as being diametrically opposed to all those regimes goes beyond normal TDS levels. Completely. Cooked. Wowzers.  | |||
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"With maximum respect I think that ship sailed many months ago with Hegseth undermining NATO at the Munich Conference in February and then the tariff announcements in April. No one should have trusted the US for almost a year now. The point about Trumps age is more interesting. As I said on the previous thread I do wonder if we could see a move to much greater territorial expansion as part of his “legacy” Here is a very left field idea (that doesn’t mean I believe it, just following a thought experiment): Let’s say the latest National Security Strategy is actually a true reflection of Trumps priorities. If he was free of constraints (which seems to be the case) then what would he do? He seem to care about dominance of all of the Americas. He wants access to key strategic resources. He wants to stem the flow of migrants and drugs. He doesn’t care what others think of him. Short term, he leaves Venezuela alone and invades Panama instead. Turn it into a US territory just like Puerto Rico is. You instantly gain access to the most important strategic asset in the Americas (the canal) and have safe guarded ship access between the East and West coasts. Block the Darien Gap with a military line and you have instantly stopped a key migrant and narcotic route into the USA. Simultaneously invade Cuba (mainly because you can and that will play well in Florida) and run that as a territory as well. You have gained a key naval asset in the Caribbean. Offer a mutual assistance treaty to Costa Rica to keep them onside and then offer immediate, unfettered economic access to the US to all three countries/territories, thus giving them a huge incentive to cooperate. Tell the Venezuelans that they are basically now a protectorate. They have internal control of their country but they need to do what they are told. If they want to become a territory then accept US control and gain economic access. Trump knows no one is going to stop him militarily. He has left a hugely expanded US with access to key regional resources and capabilities. Madness? Probably. Possible? Why not?" All that and much more is probably being gamed by the Trump administration. In terms of legacy, Vance is probably the next POTUS even if Trump manages to make it to the end of term unless the Democrats get their act together. Beyond Vance the key political players behind the scenes are Vought and Miller (whose wife just posted the map of Greenland covered with a US flag). As far as I can tell these two are essentially running the US now. When Trump is no longer around some of the MAGA support will fall away but it's difficult to predict by how mich. It's also difficult to predict what might happen in primaries as there are still some old-fashioned GOP people about as well as former MAGA diehards peeling off to form what might become MAGA 2.0. | |||
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"Wowzers." Sorry, if you can't say how you imagine that the current situation is going to lead to democracy in Venezuela then I can't take you seriously. | |||
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"Hats off to Trump for sanctioning this. How many Americans have died and been victims of crime from the Cartel of Suns drug trafficking, narco terrorism and murder. " Not as many as are being killed by legal prescription opioids. In 2018 more than 50% of the population were prescribed them. They are why Mexican made fentanyl is so much in demand. | |||
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"Holding my hands up here, in the previous thread I got the why now wrong. Last week Samsung went to the UK bullion banks to collect their silver for their microchips. The bank defaulted, they have oversold their stocks. Samsung had to approach Mexican silver refineries to panic buy to maintain production. JP Morgan was about to default and now they have just taken over the Venezuelan state owned silver refineries. JP Morgan partnered with the US military to do this. These refineries held reserves, billions of dollars worth of pure silver bars." And I thought my Panama invasion idea was off the wall | |||
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"Hats off to Trump for sanctioning this. How many Americans have died and been victims of crime from the Cartel of Suns drug trafficking, narco terrorism and murder." What is your opinon on Trump pardoning former Honduran president Hernandez from a 45 year sentence for drug trafficking and weapons conspiracy? | |||
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"Hats off to Trump for sanctioning this. How many Americans have died and been victims of crime from the Cartel of Suns drug trafficking, narco terrorism and murder. What is your opinon on Trump pardoning former Honduran president Hernandez from a 45 year sentence for drug trafficking and weapons conspiracy? " My opinion is trump thinks he's above the law, knows much more than those who are qualified and have worked in it for decades so he will free those who are on his side regardless ironically whilst expecting the same justice system to find something on those who had the gall to hold him to account and rightly convicted him.. I get what you're asking and yes the gross hypocrisy is plain for all to see but the rules as we expect them to work no longer apply both internally and globally.. Interesting times but also potentially very dangerous.. | |||
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"I find it interesting that 2 nephews of Muduro's wife were arrested in Haiti in 2015. They flew into the country on a private jet with Venezuelan military accompanying them as well as two presidential honour guards. They were planning a deal to transport approx 800kg of you know what and it was destined for New York City. They were tried in New York found guilty and received 18 years, but under the Biden administration they were released on a prisoner exchange deal. What was Trump saying about connections to cartels etc...." Probably Bidens son got a percentage.🤫🤫🤫 | |||
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"I find it interesting that 2 nephews of Muduro's wife were arrested in Haiti in 2015. They flew into the country on a private jet with Venezuelan military accompanying them as well as two presidential honour guards. They were planning a deal to transport approx 800kg of you know what and it was destined for New York City. They were tried in New York found guilty and received 18 years, but under the Biden administration they were released on a prisoner exchange deal. What was Trump saying about connections to cartels etc.... Probably Bidens son got a percentage.🤫🤫🤫 "
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"Hats off to Trump for sanctioning this. How many Americans have died and been victims of crime from the Cartel of Suns drug trafficking, narco terrorism and murder. " The DOJ have just been forced to admit that they made them up. So none. | |||
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"Trump is so far in the sh1t with Venezuela that he's now complaining that no one's talking about the Epstein files." 🤣🤣 | |||
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"Oooh…. The New York Times are reporting that in the first Venezuelan boat strike (you know.. the one where they didn’t kill everyone so they went back to kill everyone) Anyway….they are reporting that the US mocked up to look like a civilian plane… that’s perfidy … that’s an absolute no no and another war crime " A war crime as defined under a jurisdiction to which the USA is subjected? | |||
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" A war crime as defined under a jurisdiction to which the USA is subjected?" Oh, yes. Against the USA's own laws. Someone has been a very naughty boy (or girl), especially since it's reported that it was raised as a concern. It's a smart play, but countries need to stick to some kind of rules framework. This should be resolved somehow. | |||
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" A war crime as defined under a jurisdiction to which the USA is subjected? Oh, yes. Against the USA's own laws. Someone has been a very naughty boy (or girl), especially since it's reported that it was raised as a concern. It's a smart play, but countries need to stick to some kind of rules framework. This should be resolved somehow." There is a specific reason you don’t disguise a military plane as a civilian one…. Think about it next time you are on a plane 
Shot down civilian plane.. and the people who shot it down say “well they claimed to be a civilian plane, but how do you really know for sure they were not pretending ! I mean… really really know!” | |||
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" A war crime as defined under a jurisdiction to which the USA is subjected? Oh, yes. Against the USA's own laws. Someone has been a very naughty boy (or girl), especially since it's reported that it was raised as a concern. It's a smart play, but countries need to stick to some kind of rules framework. This should be resolved somehow. There is a specific reason you don’t disguise a military plane as a civilian one…. Think about it next time you are on a plane
Shot down civilian plane.. and the people who shot it down say “well they claimed to be a civilian plane, but how do you really know for sure they were not pretending ! I mean… really really know!”"Agreed. Not that Russia ever cares, though... | |||
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"Death to drug traffickers Death to narco-terrorists Death to dictators Free the oil Free the Venezuelans Make Venezuela Great Again! Hopefully Venezuela and now Iran are the first dominos to fall in a chain reaction... 2026 off to a good start. "Be careful what you wish for, you are young enough to be conscripted to install central banks. | |||
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"Be careful what you wish for, you are young enough to be conscripted to install central banks." Not a chance. If it comes to that, I'll be volunteering before any conscription act touches me. You think I'd wanna be next to conscripts instead of vols when the bullets start whizzing past? Absolutely fucking not. | |||
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"Death to drug traffickers Death to narco-terrorists Death to dictators Free the oil Free the Venezuelans Make Venezuela Great Again! Hopefully Venezuela and now Iran are the first dominos to fall in a chain reaction... 2026 off to a good start. " :-
Kind of ignores the consequences of whatever you might be kickstarting | |||
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"Kind of ignores the consequences of whatever you might be kickstarting" How so? | |||
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"Kind of ignores the consequences of whatever you might be kickstarting How so?" There's no mention of any of the implications and consequences of such regime changes and falls | |||
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"There's no mention of any of the implications and consequences of such regime changes and falls" Okay… And? That would take many, many paragraphs of comprehensive hypothesising and conjecture. Would have kinda dampens and taken away my snappy, concise, chest-thumping vibe, y’know? If you want to, by all means, the stage is yours… | |||
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