Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious…" I'm not a Reform voter so I can't answer your direct question, but Farage and his team know they have to widen Reform's appeal significantly to have any chance becoming the largest party at the next GE. His "banter" will put off voters he needs to attract. It also provides his opponents with another attack route. Whether this benefits or detracts is the questions but one gets the impression his core vote will remain. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care?" You might need to tell us what you believe Nigel has done/said. Then Reform supporters can tell you whether they believe it, before they go on to say whether they care. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I would much rather journalists tackle Farage on his pet project of Brexit, (which most UK voters agree is a flop) & the recent conviction of Reform's Nathan Gill for bribery with Russian money; I think there is a lot more in those links" Are we not the sum of our parts ? I would rather journalists examine all the parts in order to gain a fuller picture and measure of their subject. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I would much rather journalists tackle Farage on his pet project of Brexit, (which most UK voters agree is a flop) & the recent conviction of Reform's Nathan Gill for bribery with Russian money; I think there is a lot more in those links Are we not the sum of our parts ? I would rather journalists examine all the parts in order to gain a fuller picture and measure of their subject." In my opinion; most people would excuse teenager behaviour; most of us did stupid things in our youth. Question & measure Farage responses based on a critique of his recent performances, mainly Brexit & his relationship with Nathan Gill. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I would much rather journalists tackle Farage on his pet project of Brexit, (which most UK voters agree is a flop) & the recent conviction of Reform's Nathan Gill for bribery with Russian money; I think there is a lot more in those links Are we not the sum of our parts ? I would rather journalists examine all the parts in order to gain a fuller picture and measure of their subject. In my opinion; most people would excuse teenager behaviour; most of us did stupid things in our youth. Question & measure Farage responses based on a critique of his recent performances, mainly Brexit & his relationship with Nathan Gill." Whilst I do feel you could be accused of trying to "gatekeep" which parts of Farage's life are relevant in order to prioritise recent events, pretending the rest of his life is irrelevant is dismissing themes that echo in to adulthood. . If a public figure expressed racism or bigotry early on, it’s valid to examine whether that attitude evolved, persisted, or shaped their politics. . Journalists should be allowed to explore the full arc — youth to present — to help us understand the continuity or change in someone’s worldview. That’s not persecution; it’s profile building. . The idea that "teenage years don’t count" is convenient for people with ugly histories. But if those histories resemble the present? Then, sorry — those teen years are going to be examined. . Life isn't a single issue CV. It's a whole mess of interconnected moments, and it's the job of journalists to examine the whole mess and inform the voting public. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"His targeting of a Jewish pupil is interesting..." Oh... He's going for *that* vote. Too late; they're already voting for "Your Party". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious…" So it seems you've got your answer. Those that hate him find this a useful extra stick with which to beat him. Those that like him don't really seem to think there's anything interesting being reported. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious…" Hurty words said by anyone as an immature child are nothing compared to the damage the current regime is doing. Far more concerned about the £2000 salary sacrifice cap the idiots in power at the moment have planned in. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious… Hurty words said by anyone as an immature child are nothing compared to the damage the current regime is doing. Far more concerned about the £2000 salary sacrifice cap the idiots in power at the moment have planned in." Hurty words, immature child. Did you write this while looking in a mirror? Does your mate Nigel know you're saying that he was an immature child? I don't think he'd appreciate that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious… Hurty words said by anyone as an immature child are nothing compared to the damage the current regime is doing. Far more concerned about the £2000 salary sacrifice cap the idiots in power at the moment have planned in. Hurty words, immature child. Did you write this while looking in a mirror? Does your mate Nigel know you're saying that he was an immature child? I don't think he'd appreciate that. " Not going to bite, thr least you could've done was use a racial slur.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Should fatrage be held accountable for what he said 40 years ago as a kid?? No Should he be held accountable if he carried on with the mindset and attitude through to adulthood and to date? Absolutely " Fat rage? 
We don't trust Farage not to get bought out and fall inline with the regime to be honest. Reform could prove just as inept as the Conservative/Labour uniparty.
That said, we also don't trust media entities that would blame a man for things said as a kid, or for ineffective government policies when he wasn't in power. Some folk need to reflect on the horseshit sandwich being put infront of them and perhaps demand to see the chef before they gulp it down. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This was not a one off forgettable incident. He pursued another kid like a stalker constantly trying to intimidate him. (Listen to what the victim said) Which seems to be backed up by other witnesses." Is it? From what I've read there's one guy claiming racist bullying, and several others who say that he was a bit racist, but don't directly back up the first guy's account. I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong if anyone can provide a link to something saying otherwise. "Roll forward 40 years, he has a reputation for denigrating people who are different from him, and still uses them as scapegoats to those who want someone else to blame for their own failures." Does he? Can you give us an example of him denigrating people that are different to him? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This was not a one off forgettable incident. He pursued another kid like a stalker constantly trying to intimidate him. (Listen to what the victim said) Which seems to be backed up by other witnesses. Is it? From what I've read there's one guy claiming racist bullying, and several others who say that he was a bit racist, but don't directly back up the first guy's account. I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong if anyone can provide a link to something saying otherwise. Roll forward 40 years, he has a reputation for denigrating people who are different from him, and still uses them as scapegoats to those who want someone else to blame for their own failures. Does he? Can you give us an example of him denigrating people that are different to him?" Well he said he'd be concerned having Romanian neighbours; "In an interview for LBC Radio on Friday, Mr Farage was asked what the difference was between having a group of Romanian men and German children as neighbours. "You know what the difference is," Mr Farage replied: I was asked if a group of Romanian men moved in next to you, would you be concerned? And if you lived in London, I think you would be." https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-27459923.amp | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Well he said he'd be concerned having Romanian neighbours ..." That's true, he did say that. But I was asking the other bloke, and I'll be interested to see what he comes up with. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This was not a one off forgettable incident. He pursued another kid like a stalker constantly trying to intimidate him. (Listen to what the victim said) Which seems to be backed up by other witnesses. Is it? From what I've read there's one guy claiming racist bullying, and several others who say that he was a bit racist, but don't directly back up the first guy's account. I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong if anyone can provide a link to something saying otherwise." Benarroch, who is Jewish and was two years below Farage at school, said he did not get personally targeted by him but that he recalled the abuse allegedly meted out to Ettedgui. “He was such a gentle soul and Farage – Farage made his life a fucking nightmare,” he said. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/25/three-more-ex-pupils-at-school-with-nigel-farage-reject-banter-claims | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From what I've read there's one guy claiming racist bullying, and several others who say that he was a bit racist, but don't directly back up the first guy's account. I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong if anyone can provide a link to something saying otherwise." "Benarroch, who is Jewish and was two years below Farage at school, said he did not get personally targeted by him but that he recalled the abuse allegedly meted out to Ettedgui. “He was such a gentle soul and Farage – Farage made his life a fucking nightmare,” he said. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2025/nov/25/three-more-ex-pupils-at-school-with-nigel-farage-reject-banter-claims" Thanks for that. I didn't realise other people had come forward. It's interesting that The Guardian keeps using the word "alleged" in their piece. It sort of suggests that they don't have the courage of their convictions. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"This was not a one off forgettable incident. He pursued another kid like a stalker constantly trying to intimidate him. (Listen to what the victim said) Which seems to be backed up by other witnesses. Is it? From what I've read there's one guy claiming racist bullying, and several others who say that he was a bit racist, but don't directly back up the first guy's account. I'm happy to be shown that I'm wrong if anyone can provide a link to something saying otherwise. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cx2dny3r3vyo Roll forward 40 years, he has a reputation for denigrating people who are different from him, and still uses them as scapegoats to those who want someone else to blame for their own failures. Does he? Can you give us an example of him denigrating people that are different to him?" Every time he speaks about Immigration whether from Eastern Europe during Brexit, or now it's about the boats, the underlying message is to look down upon those who have enriched our society. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Every time he speaks about Immigration whether from Eastern Europe during Brexit, or now it's about the boats, the underlying message is to look down upon those who have enriched our society." Has every single immigrant enriched our society? Do you think he looked down on his wife, a German immigrant? Did he look down on Reform's previous deputy leader Ben Habib, a Pakistani Muslim immigrant? Farage has been very clear that he wants legal immigration to continue. What he wants to do is stop illegal immigration. He's a supporter of a "points based" immigration system where we can bring in those most likely to contribute. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am a reform voter it is the UKs only way out of this mess the country is in. " Into a deeper one. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am a reform voter it is the UKs only way out of this mess the country is in." "Into a deeper one." That still counts as 'out of the current mess'. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Who cares what a child said 40 years ago" Who cares what he says now? "Give me a child until he is seven and I will show you the man"! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Every time he speaks about Immigration whether from Eastern Europe during Brexit, or now it's about the boats, the underlying message is to look down upon those who have enriched our society. Has every single immigrant enriched our society? Do you think he looked down on his wife, a German immigrant? Did he look down on Reform's previous deputy leader Ben Habib, a Pakistani Muslim immigrant? Farage has been very clear that he wants legal immigration to continue. What he wants to do is stop illegal immigration. He's a supporter of a "points based" immigration system where we can bring in those most likely to contribute." They've definitely improved your sports teams. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Every time he speaks about Immigration whether from Eastern Europe during Brexit, or now it's about the boats, the underlying message is to look down upon those who have enriched our society. Has every single immigrant enriched our society? Do you think he looked down on his wife, a German immigrant? Did he look down on Reform's previous deputy leader Ben Habib, a Pakistani Muslim immigrant? Farage has been very clear that he wants legal immigration to continue. What he wants to do is stop illegal immigration. He's a supporter of a "points based" immigration system where we can bring in those most likely to contribute." I can tell nothing I say is going to change your mind, so I won't waste my time. But I did prove that he is a bully. His history at school: bully 40 years later still the same loser. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I can tell nothing I say is going to change your mind, so I won't waste my time." I've not made up my mind yet. I'm still trying to gather evidence to work out what I think of him. The problem I have is that most people are incapable of being objective when it comes to Farage. He's very polarising. "But I did prove that he is a bully." You didn't actually prove it. You just stated it as if it were a fact. Proof requires a bit more evidence than that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is no one else to get us out of this mess. If you guys can’t see what’s coming you are part of the problem. At points during ww2 it only took 100k Germans to hold France. If you think we are more intelligent now than then you are sadly mistaken. All it take is for the fundamental terrioists to get arms and this country is lost. My guess we are about 10y away from that tipping point. " Somewhat melodramatic! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"“Farage has been very clear that he wants legal immigration to continue. What he wants to do is stop illegal immigration. He's a supporter of a "points based" immigration system where we can bring in those most likely to contribute” If it were as simple as that, nobody could or would say otherwise; I myself would go even further and say never mind stopping ‘em, those illegal immigrants already here should be rounded up and imprisoned. BUT - and it’s a big but - are the boat people “illegal immigrants” or “legal” asylum seekers? Is it “legal” or “illegal” to gain safety from persecution or conflict in one country and then move on to another? Political asylum has been recognised and granted for centuries; is poverty a “legal” justification to accept immigrants? Too many grey areas and too many opportunities for each and every argument to have its champions, critics, pundits, authors, chat-show guests etc. Even to upgrade from MEP to Westminster MP." I'd say if they are hoping on boats in France they are illegal,as far as I'm aware France is a safe country | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"BUT - and it’s a big but - are the boat people “illegal immigrants” or “legal” asylum seekers?" They can be both. If they arrive on British shores in a manner not in accordance with the law, they are an illegal immigrant. If they then apply for asylum in the approved manner they are a legal asylum seeker. If they did both of those, they are both an "illegal immigrant" and a "legal asylum seeker". "Is it “legal” or “illegal” to gain safety from persecution or conflict in one country and then move on to another?" I assume you mean a person leaving, say Syria, travelling to, for instance France, and then arriving in, maybe the UK. There are no laws covering moving from one country to another in sequence, so they wouldn't be legal or illegal. If you're talking about people claiming asylum here having just left a "safe" country, then there's a whole mass of complex case law that gets bigger every day. "Political asylum has been recognised and granted for centuries" But there's no law for it. Political Asylum is just one country deciding that they can get something useful from accepting a foreigner. They aren't required by law to do so. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'd say if they are hoping on boats in France they are illegal,as far as I'm aware France is a safe country" You'd be wrong. It's acceptable under the 1951 Convention to travel through safe countries before making a claim, as long as you travel "directly" to your destination. Of course, "directly" isn't defined in the Convention. There's a lot of case law around this issue but basically if you were to fly to Toulouse and then spend 6 months walking all the way across France to get to the channel, before crossing and claiming in the UK, that would be considered a 'direct' route. If you were to fly to Calais and live with a friend for the same 6 months, that would not be considered 'direct'. In between there's a lot of arguments to be made either way. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It was fairly typical day to day in the 80’s playgrounds to use / hear racist or what would be considered homophobic language. Different time, what matters more is how he handles himself now." It wasn’t at all common to hear people saying ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘Gas em all’ though, was it? How he handles himself now is no different. He’s a racist piece of shit, and if you align yourself with him, so are you. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It was fairly typical day to day in the 80’s playgrounds to use / hear racist or what would be considered homophobic language. Different time, what matters more is how he handles himself now. It wasn’t at all common to hear people saying ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘Gas em all’ though, was it? How he handles himself now is no different. He’s a racist piece of shit, and if you align yourself with him, so are you. " What do you mean by align with Farage? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It was fairly typical day to day in the 80’s playgrounds to use / hear racist or what would be considered homophobic language. Different time, what matters more is how he handles himself now. It wasn’t at all common to hear people saying ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘Gas em all’ though, was it? How he handles himself now is no different. He’s a racist piece of shit, and if you align yourself with him, so are you. What do you mean by align with Farage? " I mean if you’re a Reform voter. Because their only policies are to do with immigration. They offer nothing but division. So if you’re thinking of voting for them, don’t pretend it’s about anything else. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am a reform voter it is the UKs only way out of this mess the country is in. " Isn't Reform just a load of washed up Tories, who have been in power for 14 years & have essentially gotten The UK in the mess in the first place? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I mean if you’re a Reform voter. Because their only policies are to do with immigration. They offer nothing but division. So if you’re thinking of voting for them, don’t pretend it’s about anything else." One of their policies is to raise the Income Tax threshold to £20,000. I can see a lot of people voting for that without them necessarily being racist. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am a reform voter it is the UKs only way out of this mess the country is in." "Isn't Reform just a load of washed up Tories, who have been in power for 14 years & have essentially gotten The UK in the mess in the first place?" No. Almost none of them are ex-Tory politicians. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I am a reform voter it is the UKs only way out of this mess the country is in. Isn't Reform just a load of washed up Tories, who have been in power for 14 years & have essentially gotten The UK in the mess in the first place? No. Almost none of them are ex-Tory politicians." 3 of their 5 MPs are ex-Torys. Kruger, Anderson, Pochin. So not almost none, more than half | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It was fairly typical day to day in the 80’s playgrounds to use / hear racist or what would be considered homophobic language. Different time, what matters more is how he handles himself now. It wasn’t at all common to hear people saying ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘Gas em all’ though, was it? How he handles himself now is no different. He’s a racist piece of shit, and if you align yourself with him, so are you. What do you mean by align with Farage? I mean if you’re a Reform voter. Because their only policies are to do with immigration. They offer nothing but division. So if you’re thinking of voting for them, don’t pretend it’s about anything else. " They certainly are well known on some particular issues around immigration but it's incorrect to say all their policies are on these issues. I suspect the rise in the polls for them is linked to the fact that many people are also concerned with such issues and do not agree that raising concerns makes them racist. Also they are aided by the fact that the Tories failed to get a grip on it and the current government are also finding it harder than just saying smash the gangs or one in one out. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It was fairly typical day to day in the 80’s playgrounds to use / hear racist or what would be considered homophobic language. Different time, what matters more is how he handles himself now. It wasn’t at all common to hear people saying ‘Hitler was right’ and ‘Gas em all’ though, was it? How he handles himself now is no different. He’s a racist piece of shit, and if you align yourself with him, so are you. What do you mean by align with Farage? I mean if you’re a Reform voter. Because their only policies are to do with immigration. They offer nothing but division. So if you’re thinking of voting for them, don’t pretend it’s about anything else. " That is a huge assumption you are making. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"3 of their 5 MPs are ex-Torys. Kruger, Anderson, Pochin. So not almost none, more than half" Far too many ex uniparty Conservative MP's joining Reform. Jonathan Gullis is our previous Conservative MP, not an MP currently, and he's thrown his lot in with Reform. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Isn't Reform just a load of washed up Tories, who have been in power for 14 years & have essentially gotten The UK in the mess in the first place?" "No. Almost none of them are ex-Tory politicians." "3 of their 5 MPs are ex-Torys. Kruger, Anderson, Pochin. So not almost none, more than half" I was thinking of the party in general, rather than just their MPs. But if we're going to limit it to just MPs, Pochin doesn't count as she was never a Tory MP. It does seem likely that more and more Tories will defect over the coming months and years. Reform will have to be careful in who they accept if they want to keep claiming that they would be a change from what's come before. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"20 former tory MP's are among countless other ex-councillors who have lost their positions of power and joined reform .... reform is now just a russian financed refuge for career politicians from the metropolitan elite attempting to keep riding the gravy train, various washed up hasbeens and other assorted fascists who have been puged from the conservative and unionist party. they've become a bit of an embarrasing joke really." Lovely description! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious…" Personally as a paid up member I don’t give a fuck, most have said far worse do what’s to be worried about | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"20 former tory MP's are among countless other ex-councillors who have lost their positions of power and joined reform .... reform is now just a russian financed refuge for career politicians from the metropolitan elite attempting to keep riding the gravy train, various washed up hasbeens and other assorted fascists who have been puged from the conservative and unionist party. they've become a bit of an embarrasing joke really." Yeah what ever… | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"3 of their 5 MPs are ex-Torys. Kruger, Anderson, Pochin. So not almost none, more than half Far too many ex uniparty Conservative MP's joining Reform. Jonathan Gullis is our previous Conservative MP, not an MP currently, and he's thrown his lot in with Reform." Has he actually made the switch, if he has bravo!… | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"20 former tory MP's are among countless other ex-councillors who have lost their positions of power and joined reform ..." Having done some digging, I make it 13 ex-Conservative MPs that are currently members of Reform. Which is a lot more than I thought it was. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"20 tory mps ..... https://www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2025/10/06/tory-mps-defected-reform-uk/" That's quite convincing. Thanks for the link. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society." Many TV shows of the time were terrible, but I don't recall any of them saying Hitler was right or making jokes about gas chambers. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society." Neither show was antisemtic which is one of the allegations against Farage from some of the 28 fellow pupils at Dulwich College who have been reported as confirming Farage's alleged racist and antisemetic behaviour. Also consider this: Starmer and Farage are one academic year apart, Starmer being older. Both went to elite schools. Dulwich College and Reigate Grammar. Geographically not far apart. Only one of them has been challenged about their alleged racist and antisemetic behaviour but both were at school whilst these TV programmes were broadcast. Why wasn't Starmer influenced but Farage was? An imagine the total apoplexy of the right wing posters on here if it had been Starmer not Farage. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society." which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Many TV shows of the time were terrible, but I don't recall any of them saying Hitler was right or making jokes about gas chambers." You should re-watch Till Death Us Do Part. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly?" I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You should re-watch Till Death Us Do Part." The actor who played Alf Garnet was Jewish. I think the only mention of Jews was about Tottenham Hotspur fans. I disliked TDUDP because many on the far-right thought that Alf was a hero figure instead of someone to be mocked but AFAIK even Alf never said that Hitler was right or made jokes about gas chambers, but if you know better then please post info. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward " i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting." Sounds an interesting time, maybe I'll find some repeats on an obscure channel. As for why I found it interesting, I explained in my previous post | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting. Sounds an interesting time, maybe I'll find some repeats on an obscure channel. As for why I found it interesting, I explained in my previous post" no, you didn't. it's been widely publicised for the last 20 or so years that people have been comming forward with these facts. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious…" I'm not a reform voter, or at least not as yet but who knows what could happen in the future years. As for what someone said in their teenage years at school is of no relevance to me. Find this type of character assassination somewhat sad, desperate and pathetic and would certainly turn me away from the party that makes these accusations. Its the policies that would draw my vote not what you dig up about someone's school days. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting. Sounds an interesting time, maybe I'll find some repeats on an obscure channel. As for why I found it interesting, I explained in my previous post no, you didn't. it's been widely publicised for the last 20 or so years that people have been comming forward with these facts." Again: To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting. Sounds an interesting time, maybe I'll find some repeats on an obscure channel. As for why I found it interesting, I explained in my previous post no, you didn't. it's been widely publicised for the last 20 or so years that people have been comming forward with these facts. Again: To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward" That's their choice and they are at liberty to do so,as victims. The heinous nature of some of the remarks should surely have been enough for Farage to have more clearly owned the problem and aimed to have healed any wounds. The public nature of the complaints, including holocaust survivors' hurt and viewpoints, has prompted others to come forward now. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious… I'm not a reform voter, or at least not as yet but who knows what could happen in the future years. As for what someone said in their teenage years at school is of no relevance to me. Find this type of character assassination somewhat sad, desperate and pathetic and would certainly turn me away from the party that makes these accusations. Its the policies that would draw my vote not what you dig up about someone's school days." Is it really character assassination if he doesn’t deny actually saying it? His excuse is the thing that has kept changing… | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting. Sounds an interesting time, maybe I'll find some repeats on an obscure channel. As for why I found it interesting, I explained in my previous post no, you didn't. it's been widely publicised for the last 20 or so years that people have been comming forward with these facts. Again: To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward" again, these facts have been widely publicised over the last 20 years. no idea why it's taken this long for some people to take any notice. probably something to do with being in denial due to their own personal political agendas | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious… I'm not a reform voter, or at least not as yet but who knows what could happen in the future years. As for what someone said in their teenage years at school is of no relevance to me. Find this type of character assassination somewhat sad, desperate and pathetic and would certainly turn me away from the party that makes these accusations. Its the policies that would draw my vote not what you dig up about someone's school days. Is it really character assassination if he doesn’t deny actually saying it? His excuse is the thing that has kept changing… " I really don't care what a teenager said at school, I have absolutely not interest whatsoever. Is it character assassination. I think the other parties are certainly trying to assassinate his character and just about anything else they can do to rid themselves of this man and his party, in doing so making themselves look weak and pathetic. Does he deny actually saying it. I really don't care, he was a schoolboy, I've said plenty of things as a kid that make me cringe and disgust me, but it was part of growing up, becoming mature. There is a long time before the next election, let's see how things pan out, a week in politics and all that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious… I'm not a reform voter, or at least not as yet but who knows what could happen in the future years. As for what someone said in their teenage years at school is of no relevance to me. Find this type of character assassination somewhat sad, desperate and pathetic and would certainly turn me away from the party that makes these accusations. Its the policies that would draw my vote not what you dig up about someone's school days." I think back to when I was 13/14 and I was a wind up merchant, as were many (most) of my peers. We would say all sorts of shit just to get a reaction or a giggle from your mates. Of course we were stupid and immature, aren't most 13/14 year olds? Besides, the world wasn't quite so sensitive in those days. I would be more concerned about a politician who at 24 years old (supposedly older and wiser) not only attended a Czech secret police sponsored work camp but also founded and edited a magazine that was an apologist for the Soviet Union during the Cold War. The same magazine that campaigned for the release of a convicted terrorist responsible for over a dozen murders and the bombing of British targets in Portugal. His name? Yep you guessed it, Kier Starmer. Farage may have been stupid and immature as a teenager but Starmer in his 20's was akin to a traitor. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting. Sounds an interesting time, maybe I'll find some repeats on an obscure channel. As for why I found it interesting, I explained in my previous post no, you didn't. it's been widely publicised for the last 20 or so years that people have been comming forward with these facts. Again: To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward again, these facts have been widely publicised over the last 20 years. no idea why it's taken this long for some people to take any notice. probably something to do with being in denial due to their own personal political agendas " You asked why I said I found it interesting. I said why I found it interesting. You mention that this has been widely publicised over the last 20 years. I did not dispute that in my posts, I said I have not read why it's taken people so long. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think back to when I was 13/14 and I was a wind up merchant, as were many (most) of my peers. We would say all sorts of shit just to get a reaction or a giggle from your mates. Of course we were stupid and immature, aren't most 13/14 year olds? Besides, the world wasn't quite so sensitive in those days." Did you and your mates bully Jews and joke about gas chambers? Also apparently Farages's behaviour continued on into the sixth form. "I would be more concerned about a politician who at 24 years old (supposedly older and wiser) not only attended a Czech secret police sponsored work camp but also founded and edited a magazine that was an apologist for the Soviet Union during the Cold War. The same magazine that campaigned for the release of a convicted terrorist responsible for over a dozen murders and the bombing of British targets in Portugal. His name? Yep you guessed it, Kier Starmer. Farage may have been stupid and immature as a teenager but Starmer in his 20's was akin to a traitor." When Starmer was 23 he volunteered to help restore a memorial to over 300 Czech civilians who had been slaughtered in a Nazi atrocity. Can you provide further info on him campaigning for the release of a terrorist please. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"His haters will want to use this to remove him from sight, his supporters will use this to rally around him. The question is what can actually be done? If he simply holds his line, I would say nothing and it will start to slip to the back of peoples minds until the GE comes along and it will surface again. His skin is thicker than a rhino, however 20+ people can't all be liars." All he needs to do to recover from this is make a meaningful apology, but this seems unlikely to happen. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think back to when I was 13/14 and I was a wind up merchant, as were many (most) of my peers. We would say all sorts of shit just to get a reaction or a giggle from your mates. Of course we were stupid and immature, aren't most 13/14 year olds? Besides, the world wasn't quite so sensitive in those days. Did you and your mates bully Jews and joke about gas chambers? Also apparently Farages's behaviour continued on into the sixth form. I would be more concerned about a politician who at 24 years old (supposedly older and wiser) not only attended a Czech secret police sponsored work camp but also founded and edited a magazine that was an apologist for the Soviet Union during the Cold War. The same magazine that campaigned for the release of a convicted terrorist responsible for over a dozen murders and the bombing of British targets in Portugal. His name? Yep you guessed it, Kier Starmer. Farage may have been stupid and immature as a teenager but Starmer in his 20's was akin to a traitor. When Starmer was 23 he volunteered to help restore a memorial to over 300 Czech civilians who had been slaughtered in a Nazi atrocity. Can you provide further info on him campaigning for the release of a terrorist please. " Yes it was billed as that. But he could have volunteered for plenty of memorials in France, Holland, Belgium Etc. But no he chose to go behind the Iron Curtain and work in a group organised by the Czech secret police and overseen by the KGB. The terrorist his magazine (Socialist Alternatives) campaigned for was Otelo de Carvalho a Portuguese military officer who was also the head of a hard left organisation called FP-25. FP-25 carried out bombings, kidna*ings and robberies that claimed at least 14 lives and countless injuries. They were also allied to the Provisional IRA. Other signatories to the campaign included Tony Benn, Claire Short and Jeremy Corbyn. Surprise surprise. Kier Starmer was editor and co founder of the magazine. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes it was billed as that. But he could have volunteered for plenty of memorials in France, Holland, Belgium Etc. But no he chose to go behind the Iron Curtain and work in a group organised by the Czech secret police and overseen by the KGB. The terrorist his magazine (Socialist Alternatives) campaigned for was Otelo de Carvalho a Portuguese military officer who was also the head of a hard left organisation called FP-25. FP-25 carried out bombings, kidna*ings and robberies that claimed at least 14 lives and countless injuries. They were also allied to the Provisional IRA. Other signatories to the campaign included Tony Benn, Claire Short and Jeremy Corbyn. Surprise surprise. Kier Starmer was editor and co founder of the magazine." It's interesting that you didn't answer my question about you and your mates. Otelo was a complicated character. He was the mastermind behind the Carnation Revolution and the downfall of fascism in Portugal so he's seen as a hero by many. However he did also seem to be deeply involved in FP-25. Although his sentence was judged to be unconstitutional and he was released in 1989. My question was whether Starmer was directly involved in a campaign for his release during his brief 1986/87 role as editor of a magazine or whether you are just talking about guilt by association. I have a very low opinion of Starmer so if there is something bad in his history it wouldn't be any surprise but so far your posts seem to have been slightly economical with the actualité. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Interesting angle from from farage and reform. They are saying that at the time of the allegations the BBC were broadcasting shows like the black and white minstrals show and it ain't had hot mum to millions of people. Both would be considered incorrect in today's society. which part of his utterly spineless whatabouterry do you find interesting exactly? I just thought it was an interesting angle for them to take. The period in question was long before me so I have not experienced the black and white show though have caught bits of it ain't half hot mum on random channels. My presumption is that they are trying to highlight that times have changed. I do not think they were saying the shows were antisemitic or referenced Hitler only that standards have changed. To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward i lived through the television era in question where the likes of tommy cannon & bobby ball sang racist songs on bernard mannings wheel tappers & shunters show or benny hill ran around m0lesting groups of schoolgirls. needless to say that kind of biazarre garbage got switched off pretty quickly or the channel changed to something else that was actually entertaining. so i'll ask again. exactly which part of his spineless whataboutery do you find interesting. Sounds an interesting time, maybe I'll find some repeats on an obscure channel. As for why I found it interesting, I explained in my previous post no, you didn't. it's been widely publicised for the last 20 or so years that people have been comming forward with these facts. Again: To me it shows a bit of worry on their part that this may get proven hence maybe the need for deflection. Not as yet read why it's taken this long for these people to come forward again, these facts have been widely publicised over the last 20 years. no idea why it's taken this long for some people to take any notice. probably something to do with being in denial due to their own personal political agendas You asked why I said I found it interesting. I said why I found it interesting. You mention that this has been widely publicised over the last 20 years. I did not dispute that in my posts, I said I have not read why it's taken people so long. " no, you didn't say why. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Personally, as a non UK person, I find the recent reporting of what he said in school as kind of desperate; I am sure all of us have done questionable things in our teens. I would much rather journalists tackle Farage on his pet project of Brexit, (which most UK voters agree is a flop) & the recent conviction of Reform's Nathan Gill for bribery with Russian money; I think there is a lot more in those links" Hi. Isn't the failure of Brexit more to do with how Boris influenced and dealt with it rather than Farage? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Personally, as a non UK person, I find the recent reporting of what he said in school as kind of desperate; I am sure all of us have done questionable things in our teens. I would much rather journalists tackle Farage on his pet project of Brexit, (which most UK voters agree is a flop) & the recent conviction of Reform's Nathan Gill for bribery with Russian money; I think there is a lot more in those links Hi. Isn't the failure of Brexit more to do with how Boris influenced and dealt with it rather than Farage?" Yes, but Farage wanted/wants an even harsher Brexit than Boris (eventhough he voted in favour of the deal); Farage is the original Brexiteer & his push on the right of the Tories made the referendum possible. Also remember he said The UK could be like Norway or Switzerland, but then rejected SM+CU membership, which both those countries have. So for me, there is a direct line from Farage to the current issues, difficulties with Brexit | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Yes it was billed as that. But he could have volunteered for plenty of memorials in France, Holland, Belgium Etc. But no he chose to go behind the Iron Curtain and work in a group organised by the Czech secret police and overseen by the KGB. The terrorist his magazine (Socialist Alternatives) campaigned for was Otelo de Carvalho a Portuguese military officer who was also the head of a hard left organisation called FP-25. FP-25 carried out bombings, kidna*ings and robberies that claimed at least 14 lives and countless injuries. They were also allied to the Provisional IRA. Other signatories to the campaign included Tony Benn, Claire Short and Jeremy Corbyn. Surprise surprise. Kier Starmer was editor and co founder of the magazine. It's interesting that you didn't answer my question about you and your mates. Otelo was a complicated character. He was the mastermind behind the Carnation Revolution and the downfall of fascism in Portugal so he's seen as a hero by many. However he did also seem to be deeply involved in FP-25. Although his sentence was judged to be unconstitutional and he was released in 1989. My question was whether Starmer was directly involved in a campaign for his release during his brief 1986/87 role as editor of a magazine or whether you are just talking about guilt by association. I have a very low opinion of Starmer so if there is something bad in his history it wouldn't be any surprise but so far your posts seem to have been slightly economical with the actualité." To be honest I can only remember one Jewish kid from School and he was by far the cleverest kid in our year. I think if we'd tried to take the piss he would have run rings around us. Besides his father and mine were quite friendly. My home town (Blackpool) wasn't as diverse back then as it is today so black and Asian kids were quite rare. I remember one black lad we used to give a bit of ribbing to but nothing nasty. Just immature and stupid. I used to bump into him from time to time over the years and it was never an issue to him. OK back to Starmer. I suppose some of what I posted is circumstantial but he was heavily involved with that magazine both as co-founder and editor. Also it was Starmer's north London address that was used for Otelo's supporters to write to in support of "Socialist Alternative's" campaign to get Otelo released. Note the campaign was by the magazine itself (edited by Starmer) not just one journalist. It should be remembered that this was a campaign for the release of the leader of a terror group responsible for many deaths and maiming's. Also rocket attacks on British targets in Portugal in solidarity with the Provisional IRA. Hardly the sort of background you would expect from a British Prime Minister. A few stupid words from a schoolboy tend to pale into insignificance by comparison. As for his visit to Czechoslovakia during the cold war. You can argue naivety and you would probably be correct. You could also call it immature and stupid. I think lots of politicians would concede that they have done immature and stupid things in their past. But they should be very careful chucking stones at another when their house is made of glass. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I didn't expect that you or your mates had actually bullied Jewish kids, or ever said that Hitler was right or sang songs about gassing 'em all. That's because it wasn't ever normal for British teenagers to engage in such behaviour. The claim that Farage's behaviour was typical of the times is rubbish. That's why Reform keep changing their excuse. An honourable man would fully apologise for the hurt he caused and move on. But Farage isn't an honourable man. On Starmer, I don't see how any dirt you might be able to dig up on him changes anything to do with Farage. Look over there isn't a great debating tactic and it looks like your early comments were simply regurgitating bits of the recent "Comrade Starmer!" Daily Mail article. Although to be fair to the DM they at least included Schoendorff's insightful comment that "‘The guy is an empty suit…". I don't think Starmer was ever a man of big ideas so it's hard to consider him a traitor for helping to restore a memorial to people murdered by Nazis or for calling for the release of someone considered by many to be the man who liberated Portugal from the Estado Novo." Did Farage say Hitler was right? We only have the word of some of his peers 50 years on. During, it must be said, a "Get Farage" campaign by the left wing media. We'll have Ian Hendry turning up in his chauffeur suit and sunglasses next. 
Can you remember word for word what your mates said to you 50 years ago? I'm sure I can't.
Time can be a great exaggerator.
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious…" Hi. Have you seen or heard any polls since this Farage story was reported? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's now reached 28 former pupils and teachers from Dulwich College who are saying they witnessed antisemitic and racist behaviour from Farage. And yes I can remember that my peers from 50, even 60 years ago never indulged in antisemitic bullying or singing songs about gassing people. The horrors of the Holocaust were still relatively fresh in people's minds. " I remember quite a few songs that celebrated events that were still fresh in peoples memory's. Remember the "Runway Song" that celebrated the Munich air disaster? Sung to Manchester United fans by opposing fans (mostly Leeds) during the 60's/70's and beyond. I wonder how many current politicians warbled that one from the terraces in years gone by. Songs aimed at Liverpool fans after Hillsborough were quite common as well. If you want to wind someone up you find the open wound and pick at it. Maybe Farage did sing something not very nice, maybe he didn't. Maybe the Jewish kids were winding him up and he bit back. We've never been given any context so we'll probably never know. If he did then it was wrong but trying to turn it into a "Get Farage" circus 50 years on is as laughable as it is desperate. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's now reached 28 former pupils and teachers from Dulwich College who are saying they witnessed antisemitic and racist behaviour from Farage. And yes I can remember that my peers from 50, even 60 years ago never indulged in antisemitic bullying or singing songs about gassing people. The horrors of the Holocaust were still relatively fresh in people's minds. I remember quite a few songs that celebrated events that were still fresh in peoples memory's. Remember the "Runway Song" that celebrated the Munich air disaster? Sung to Manchester United fans by opposing fans (mostly Leeds) during the 60's/70's and beyond. I wonder how many current politicians warbled that one from the terraces in years gone by. Songs aimed at Liverpool fans after Hillsborough were quite common as well. If you want to wind someone up you find the open wound and pick at it. Maybe Farage did sing something not very nice, maybe he didn't. Maybe the Jewish kids were winding him up and he bit back. We've never been given any context so we'll probably never know. If he did then it was wrong but trying to turn it into a "Get Farage" circus 50 years on is as laughable as it is desperate."  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I didn't expect that you or your mates had actually bullied Jewish kids, or ever said that Hitler was right or sang songs about gassing 'em all. That's because it wasn't ever normal for British teenagers to engage in such behaviour. The claim that Farage's behaviour was typical of the times is rubbish. That's why Reform keep changing their excuse. An honourable man would fully apologise for the hurt he caused and move on. But Farage isn't an honourable man. On Starmer, I don't see how any dirt you might be able to dig up on him changes anything to do with Farage. Look over there isn't a great debating tactic and it looks like your early comments were simply regurgitating bits of the recent "Comrade Starmer!" Daily Mail article. Although to be fair to the DM they at least included Schoendorff's insightful comment that "‘The guy is an empty suit…". I don't think Starmer was ever a man of big ideas so it's hard to consider him a traitor for helping to restore a memorial to people murdered by Nazis or for calling for the release of someone considered by many to be the man who liberated Portugal from the Estado Novo." This. The Farage lovers are a cult, just like MAGA. He validates their racism so they’ll excuse anything he does. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It's now reached 28 former pupils and teachers from Dulwich College who are saying they witnessed antisemitic and racist behaviour from Farage. And yes I can remember that my peers from 50, even 60 years ago never indulged in antisemitic bullying or singing songs about gassing people. The horrors of the Holocaust were still relatively fresh in people's minds. I remember quite a few songs that celebrated events that were still fresh in peoples memory's. Remember the "Runway Song" that celebrated the Munich air disaster? Sung to Manchester United fans by opposing fans (mostly Leeds) during the 60's/70's and beyond. I wonder how many current politicians warbled that one from the terraces in years gone by. Songs aimed at Liverpool fans after Hillsborough were quite common as well. If you want to wind someone up you find the open wound and pick at it. Maybe Farage did sing something not very nice, maybe he didn't. Maybe the Jewish kids were winding him up and he bit back. We've never been given any context so we'll probably never know. If he did then it was wrong but trying to turn it into a "Get Farage" circus 50 years on is as laughable as it is desperate." The difference is, he still thinks the same way. And he wants to be Prime Minister. If the racism doesn’t bother you, what about the fact that he’s blatantly in bed with Putin? Still not bothered? What about the house in Clacton that nobody seems to know who paid for it? Still nothing? How about him wanting to privatise the NHS? I’ll stop now, you’ll come up with whataboutery, excuses or denial. You’ll support him no matter what, because he validates your bigotry. Just like Trump. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Personally, as a non UK person, I find the recent reporting of what he said in school as kind of desperate; I am sure all of us have done questionable things in our teens. I would much rather journalists tackle Farage on his pet project of Brexit, (which most UK voters agree is a flop) & the recent conviction of Reform's Nathan Gill for bribery with Russian money; I think there is a lot more in those links Hi. Isn't the failure of Brexit more to do with how Boris influenced and dealt with it rather than Farage?" No, it’s to do with it being a colossally fucking stupid idea. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious… Hi. Have you seen or heard any polls since this Farage story was reported?" YouGov 30th Nov - 1st Dec. Reform 26%. YouGov 7th - 8th Dec. Reform 27%. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It seems fairly clear that Reform supporters don't care about this issue. The problem for Reform is that they'll struggle to move beyond their base. YouGov did a poll about Racism in Reform UK (fieldwork 25th - 26th November, sample 2119 GB adults) and the results were... Farage: 45% is a racist 30% is not a racist 25% don't know Reform UK party: 44% are generally racist 34% are generally not racist 22% don't know Amongst Reform voters only 6% thought that Farage was racist and 4% thought that Reform UK were racist. So even though core supporters don't consider Farage or Reform particularly racist, when roughly 45% of the electorate do think that they are racist then they're going to struggle to gain mainstream approval. We are perhaps looking at the same kind of polarisation as found with MAGA in the US, which is unsurprising as Farage is effectively a Trump clone. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Conservatives between now and 2029. How many Conservatives will jump ship and what impact will that have on voting intentions? " You mean Trump the one that’s now trying to stop crime/drugs/illegals. Make America healthy again and kicking arse in the world. Anyone that thinks he is doing a bad job needs to look at their mental state. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You mean Trump the one that’s now trying to stop crime/drugs/illegals. Make America healthy again and kicking arse in the world. Anyone that thinks he is doing a bad job needs to look at their mental state." According to the latest YouGov polling 72% of Brits have an unfavourable opinion of Trump so Reform hitching to him is not going to help them move beyond their core supporters. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It seems fairly clear that Reform supporters don't care about this issue. The problem for Reform is that they'll struggle to move beyond their base. YouGov did a poll about Racism in Reform UK (fieldwork 25th - 26th November, sample 2119 GB adults) and the results were... Farage: 45% is a racist 30% is not a racist 25% don't know Reform UK party: 44% are generally racist 34% are generally not racist 22% don't know Amongst Reform voters only 6% thought that Farage was racist and 4% thought that Reform UK were racist. So even though core supporters don't consider Farage or Reform particularly racist, when roughly 45% of the electorate do think that they are racist then they're going to struggle to gain mainstream approval. We are perhaps looking at the same kind of polarisation as found with MAGA in the US, which is unsurprising as Farage is effectively a Trump clone. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Conservatives between now and 2029. How many Conservatives will jump ship and what impact will that have on voting intentions? You mean Trump the one that’s now trying to stop crime/drugs/illegals. Make America healthy again and kicking arse in the world. Anyone that thinks he is doing a bad job needs to look at their mental state. " Trumps only interests are making money for himself and making his rich friends even more rich whilst those at the lower echelons of wealth in the country stay there.. It's starting to manifest itself that his economic plans are beneficial to the rich at the detriment to those not rich.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" ... You mean Trump the one that’s now trying to stop crime/drugs/illegals. Make America healthy again and kicking arse in the world. Anyone that thinks he is doing a bad job needs to look at their mental state. " So if somebody tells the public that he is etheith doing a good job, or merely trying to, That makes it a fact on which our sanity hinges? !!! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You mean Trump the one that’s now trying to stop crime/drugs/illegals. Make America healthy again and kicking arse in the world. Anyone that thinks he is doing a bad job needs to look at their mental state. According to the latest YouGov polling 72% of Brits have an unfavourable opinion of Trump so Reform hitching to him is not going to help them move beyond their core supporters." I don’t believe that. In my world I only know of about 3 people that talk disrespectfully of him all the others are pro trump so forgive me of not believing what I am told or read. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don’t believe that. In my world I only know of about 3 people that talk disrespectfully of him all the others are pro trump so forgive me of not believing what I am told or read." Google 53602-how-popular-is-donald-trump-in-europe-november-2025 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It seems fairly clear that Reform supporters don't care about this issue. The problem for Reform is that they'll struggle to move beyond their base. YouGov did a poll about Racism in Reform UK (fieldwork 25th - 26th November, sample 2119 GB adults) and the results were... Farage: 45% is a racist 30% is not a racist 25% don't know Reform UK party: 44% are generally racist 34% are generally not racist 22% don't know Amongst Reform voters only 6% thought that Farage was racist and 4% thought that Reform UK were racist. So even though core supporters don't consider Farage or Reform particularly racist, when roughly 45% of the electorate do think that they are racist then they're going to struggle to gain mainstream approval. We are perhaps looking at the same kind of polarisation as found with MAGA in the US, which is unsurprising as Farage is effectively a Trump clone. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Conservatives between now and 2029. How many Conservatives will jump ship and what impact will that have on voting intentions? " I expect there will be people in all the other political parties closely watching the polls to see if the latest revelations and accusations have had an effect in the polls. Will they loose support over this or will they be able to weather the storm and maybe even increase their backing by attracting undecided people or even those transferring their allegiance | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It seems fairly clear that Reform supporters don't care about this issue. The problem for Reform is that they'll struggle to move beyond their base. YouGov did a poll about Racism in Reform UK (fieldwork 25th - 26th November, sample 2119 GB adults) and the results were... Farage: 45% is a racist 30% is not a racist 25% don't know Reform UK party: 44% are generally racist 34% are generally not racist 22% don't know Amongst Reform voters only 6% thought that Farage was racist and 4% thought that Reform UK were racist. So even though core supporters don't consider Farage or Reform particularly racist, when roughly 45% of the electorate do think that they are racist then they're going to struggle to gain mainstream approval. We are perhaps looking at the same kind of polarisation as found with MAGA in the US, which is unsurprising as Farage is effectively a Trump clone. It will be interesting to see what happens with the Conservatives between now and 2029. How many Conservatives will jump ship and what impact will that have on voting intentions? You mean Trump the one that’s now trying to stop crime/drugs/illegals. Make America healthy again and kicking arse in the world. Anyone that thinks he is doing a bad job needs to look at their mental state. Trumps only interests are making money for himself and making his rich friends even more rich whilst those at the lower echelons of wealth in the country stay there.. It's starting to manifest itself that his economic plans are beneficial to the rich at the detriment to those not rich.." They way I see it Trump and probably Farage as well are out for themselves and close friends and its in your face for all to see but at the same time they're making all the right movements to make their respective countries safe and less reliant on other countries, Unlike the past leaders/parties who do everything behind your back and still make money for themselves and friends but you don't find out about there dodgy deals until years later, How much money do these politician's/congressmen make yearly then look at their overall wealth when they leave their job ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don’t believe that. In my world I only know of about 3 people that talk disrespectfully of him all the others are pro trump so forgive me of not believing what I am told or read. Google 53602-how-popular-is-donald-trump-in-europe-november-2025" It’s laughable you believe that rubbish lol. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From talking to the reform voters within my family group, this has strengthened their resolve and believe in him as they see it as a desperate attempt to smear and the detractors have had to search back 50 years to find anything. The reasoning being there’s been nothing recent and this is “all they can dig up”. " Someone with sense. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s laughable you believe that rubbish lol." YouGov is a well-regarded polling company. It's one of the word leaders alongside Ipsos, Gallop and Pew Research. If you think that you have a better grasp of public opinion than them then fine, I hope that you and your mates enjoy your little echo chamber. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From talking to the reform voters within my family group, this has strengthened their resolve and believe in him as they see it as a desperate attempt to smear and the detractors have had to search back 50 years to find anything. The reasoning being there’s been nothing recent and this is “all they can dig up”." It would be very strange if Reform voters didn't rally behind their leader and I don't expect it to have much impact on Farage's polling numbers. This issue isn't all that new as it was brought up by Michael Crick ages ago but Reform's response in the past few days has been all over the shop. It looks like panic. Utimately the problem for Reform is not how to hold on to existing support but how to go beyond their base and this kind of press coverage with new witnesses emerging doesn't help them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From talking to the reform voters within my family group, this has strengthened their resolve and believe in him as they see it as a desperate attempt to smear and the detractors have had to search back 50 years to find anything. The reasoning being there’s been nothing recent and this is “all they can dig up”. It would be very strange if Reform voters didn't rally behind their leader and I don't expect it to have much impact on Farage's polling numbers. This issue isn't all that new as it was brought up by Michael Crick ages ago but Reform's response in the past few days has been all over the shop. It looks like panic. Utimately the problem for Reform is not how to hold on to existing support but how to go beyond their base and this kind of press coverage with new witnesses emerging doesn't help them. " I think your right in that the core support will not be to badly affected but it could influence undecided people or people considering jumping to reform from other parties. If that's the case I would not expect to see their lead in the polls increase and it could possibly decrease, though it does rely on other parties getting their act together | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From talking to the reform voters within my family group, this has strengthened their resolve and believe in him as they see it as a desperate attempt to smear and the detractors have had to search back 50 years to find anything. The reasoning being there’s been nothing recent and this is “all they can dig up”. It would be very strange if Reform voters didn't rally behind their leader and I don't expect it to have much impact on Farage's polling numbers. This issue isn't all that new as it was brought up by Michael Crick ages ago but Reform's response in the past few days has been all over the shop. It looks like panic. Utimately the problem for Reform is not how to hold on to existing support but how to go beyond their base and this kind of press coverage with new witnesses emerging doesn't help them. " The way they are polling they don’t really need to gain more support. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The way they are polling they don’t really need to gain more support." It's complicated by the recent change in the number of viable parties, but if Reform came to form a government on 26% popular support it would be novel. Here are the vote shares for the winner in GE's going back to the 1970's - 33.7%, 43.6% 42.3%, 36.8%, 59.1%, 35.2%, 40.7%, 43.2%, 41.9%, 42.2%, 42.4%, 43.9%. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From talking to the reform voters within my family group, this has strengthened their resolve and believe in him as they see it as a desperate attempt to smear and the detractors have had to search back 50 years to find anything. The reasoning being there’s been nothing recent and this is “all they can dig up”. " Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From talking to the reform voters within my family group, this has strengthened their resolve and believe in him as they see it as a desperate attempt to smear and the detractors have had to search back 50 years to find anything. The reasoning being there’s been nothing recent and this is “all they can dig up”." "Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it." It's hard to see that post as anything other than an unwarranted personal attack. That sort of thing tends to be frowned on in this forum. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. " We do not vote reform or like Nigel Farage. However, it's attitudes and comments like this (remember deplorables?) that alienated those on the right and ultimately got Trump elected. Respect is important, even where we disagree. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. We do not vote reform or like Nigel Farage. However, it's attitudes and comments like this (remember deplorables?) that alienated those on the right and ultimately got Trump elected. Respect is important, even where we disagree." Anyone who voted for Trump the second time knew exactly what he was and voted for him anyway, Same with Farage. He’s shown everyone what he is. We’ve been pussyfooting around for ages with this - appeasing the far right doesn’t work, they just want more. If you support him and his values, you’re a racist. Simple as that. And I don’t respect racists. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"From talking to the reform voters within my family group, this has strengthened their resolve and believe in him as they see it as a desperate attempt to smear and the detractors have had to search back 50 years to find anything. The reasoning being there’s been nothing recent and this is “all they can dig up”. Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. It's hard to see that post as anything other than an unwarranted personal attack. That sort of thing tends to be frowned on in this forum." Sorry, must remember to be more polite to bigots in the future. Thankyou. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. We do not vote reform or like Nigel Farage. However, it's attitudes and comments like this (remember deplorables?) that alienated those on the right and ultimately got Trump elected. Respect is important, even where we disagree. Anyone who voted for Trump the second time knew exactly what he was and voted for him anyway, Same with Farage. He’s shown everyone what he is. We’ve been pussyfooting around for ages with this - appeasing the far right doesn’t work, they just want more. If you support him and his values, you’re a racist. Simple as that. And I don’t respect racists. " Pretty much the same as I don't respect aggressive lefties who prefer to chuck labels around because they've run out of arguments. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. We do not vote reform or like Nigel Farage. However, it's attitudes and comments like this (remember deplorables?) that alienated those on the right and ultimately got Trump elected. Respect is important, even where we disagree. Anyone who voted for Trump the second time knew exactly what he was and voted for him anyway, Same with Farage. He’s shown everyone what he is. We’ve been pussyfooting around for ages with this - appeasing the far right doesn’t work, they just want more. If you support him and his values, you’re a racist. Simple as that. And I don’t respect racists. " Rubbish labels that the sad lefties can’t understand what is actually going on in this world. Those clowns will want the right to try to correct their problems in years to come. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. We do not vote reform or like Nigel Farage. However, it's attitudes and comments like this (remember deplorables?) that alienated those on the right and ultimately got Trump elected. Respect is important, even where we disagree." Very true. Ironically such statements as the one the other poster made does more to help Reform than anything any campaign team can hope to achieve. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. We do not vote reform or like Nigel Farage. However, it's attitudes and comments like this (remember deplorables?) that alienated those on the right and ultimately got Trump elected. Respect is important, even where we disagree. Anyone who voted for Trump the second time knew exactly what he was and voted for him anyway, Same with Farage. He’s shown everyone what he is. We’ve been pussyfooting around for ages with this - appeasing the far right doesn’t work, they just want more. If you support him and his values, you’re a racist. Simple as that. And I don’t respect racists. Pretty much the same as I don't respect aggressive lefties who prefer to chuck labels around because they've run out of arguments. " What arguments? You have no arguments. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Farage will not be the next PM and Reform will not win the next GE. Farage will / has / is influencing government policy and will continue to do so. Trump is correct, European leaders are weak, can't tackle immigration or control borders and have proven ineffective in ending the Russia - Ukraine war. Happy to hear how any of the above is wrong." Won't be happy to hear that you are wrong about Farage and reform.. ..will see what happens about the rest of the above! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Farage will not be the next PM and Reform will not win the next GE. Farage will / has / is influencing government policy and will continue to do so. Trump is correct, European leaders are weak, can't tackle immigration or control borders and have proven ineffective in ending the Russia - Ukraine war. Happy to hear how any of the above is wrong." Farage could be the next PM because 2029 is a long way off and there's enough time for him to attempt to detoxify Reform or even start another party! But it's unlikely, because I don't think that Farage has enough self-discipline, there's no obvious way to grow the party other than absorbing lots of third-rate Tory MPs and councillors (so it could end up being just "another Tory party") and there'll possibly be a global backlash against populist right-wing politics as we get to the end of the Trump administration's term. With regards to the interaction between Trump and Europe I'd be interested to hear your comments on the other thread about the US National Security Strategy if you've had time to read the document in question. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Farage will not be the next PM and Reform will not win the next GE. Farage will / has / is influencing government policy and will continue to do so. Trump is correct, European leaders are weak, can't tackle immigration or control borders and have proven ineffective in ending the Russia - Ukraine war. Happy to hear how any of the above is wrong." Trump has never been correct about anything, he’s just deflecting from the Epstein files. And parroting Putin propaganda. Talking of Putin, he can end the Ukraine war any time he likes. By pulling out of the country that HE INVADED. JFC. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Because they’re racist too and it makes them feel ok about it. We do not vote reform or like Nigel Farage. However, it's attitudes and comments like this (remember deplorables?) that alienated those on the right and ultimately got Trump elected. Respect is important, even where we disagree. Very true. Ironically such statements as the one the other poster made does more to help Reform than anything any campaign team can hope to achieve. "How? Those people are gonna vote for Reform anyway, no matter what I call them. They know what he is, they know what they are. No idea why they don’t admit it, I’m very happy to be called a leftie, I don’t find it insulting at all. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" So the number of people who think Reform voters are racist is far larger than the number of Reform Voters. Remarkably 1 in 20 Reform voters polled said that Reform voters were racist and one would imagine that not many people would describe themselves as racist. " You are presuming that all people see racism as a bad thing. It's possible to conceive of a world in which being racist is a badge of honour. Or, "I'm not a racist, but..." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Farage will not be the next PM and Reform will not win the next GE. Farage will / has / is influencing government policy and will continue to do so. Trump is correct, European leaders are weak, can't tackle immigration or control borders and have proven ineffective in ending the Russia - Ukraine war. Happy to hear how any of the above is wrong. Trump has never been correct about anything, he’s just deflecting from the Epstein files. And parroting Putin propaganda. Talking of Putin, he can end the Ukraine war any time he likes. By pulling out of the country that HE INVADED. JFC. " you seem to be answering a question I didn't ask. Are European borders secure? Are immigration systems functioning correctly? Have European leaders been effective in resolving the Russia / Ukraine war? Is Farage influencing UK policy? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Very true. Ironically such statements as the one the other poster made does more to help Reform than anything any campaign team can hope to achieve.
How? Those people are gonna vote for Reform anyway, no matter what I call them. They know what he is, they know what they are. No idea why they don’t admit it, I’m very happy to be called a leftie, I don’t find it insulting at all. "Trump harnessed the hatred of people who were fed up with being looked down upon by "urban elites". Respect might have turned that tide. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Very true. Ironically such statements as the one the other poster made does more to help Reform than anything any campaign team can hope to achieve.
How? Those people are gonna vote for Reform anyway, no matter what I call them. They know what he is, they know what they are. No idea why they don’t admit it, I’m very happy to be called a leftie, I don’t find it insulting at all.
Trump harnessed the hatred of people who were fed up with being looked down upon by "urban elites". Respect might have turned that tide."European right wing parties are following the same path. A joint European response is underway to appease the right but I'm rather confident it wont be enough as it will be all talk and no action. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are presuming that all people see racism as a bad thing. It's possible to conceive of a world in which being racist is a badge of honour. Or, "I'm not a racist, but..."" This is nub of this thread is it not? Reform supporters feel hurt by people accusing their leader of being racist/antisemitic. If most of them they don't think that racism is a bad thing them why would they complain? Although the core idea behind Reform isn't racism, it's the blaming of any convenient out group (whether that's based on skin colour, gender, religion, political persuasion or whatever) in order to mask the real agenda which is to massively reduce taxation, regulation and public services and return to some imagined golden age. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You are presuming that all people see racism as a bad thing. It's possible to conceive of a world in which being racist is a badge of honour. Or, "I'm not a racist, but..." This is nub of this thread is it not? Reform supporters feel hurt by people accusing their leader of being racist/antisemitic. If most of them they don't think that racism is a bad thing them why would they complain? " In 1930s Germany, racism was seen as liberating, authentic and justified. We see the same (not to the same extremes) happening in the USA, with many people feeling empowered to openly embrace bigoted views. The more polarised people become, the higher the risk of heading down that path. People aren't hurt by their leader being called anything. They're upset by people looking down on them/him (for whatever reason). At some point, they'll stop caring. As we've said for a long time, we have personal and recent testimonies to Nigel being demonstrable and objectively bigoted. We don't like him. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Although the core idea behind Reform isn't racism, it's the blaming of any convenient out group (whether that's based on skin colour, gender, religion, political persuasion or whatever) in order to mask the real agenda which is to massively reduce taxation, regulation and public services and return to some imagined golden age." Perhaps they should focus on that. I imagine there's a lot of support for less taxation, less regulation, and less public services. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In 1930s Germany, racism was seen as liberating, authentic and justified. We see the same (not to the same extremes) happening in the USA, with many people feeling empowered to openly embrace bigoted views. The more polarised people become, the higher the risk of heading down that path. People aren't hurt by their leader being called anything. They're upset by people looking down on them/him (for whatever reason). At some point, they'll stop caring. As we've said for a long time, we have personal and recent testimonies to Nigel being demonstrable and objectively bigoted. We don't like him." That's an interesting theory. Do you therefore think that the Holocaust would have been less likely to occur if nobody had criticised German antisemitism? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Perhaps they should focus on that. I imagine there's a lot of support for less taxation, less regulation, and less public services." I wish they would. It would be far more honest and possibly reduce the "collateral damage". The reason they don't is that, although eveyone would love to pay less tax, many people don't want deregulation and certainly don't want more cuts to public services. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"In 1930s Germany, racism was seen as liberating, authentic and justified. We see the same (not to the same extremes) happening in the USA, with many people feeling empowered to openly embrace bigoted views. The more polarised people become, the higher the risk of heading down that path. People aren't hurt by their leader being called anything. They're upset by people looking down on them/him (for whatever reason). At some point, they'll stop caring. As we've said for a long time, we have personal and recent testimonies to Nigel being demonstrable and objectively bigoted. We don't like him. That's an interesting theory. Do you therefore think that the Holocaust would have been less likely to occur if nobody had criticised German antisemitism? " How do you get that? It's not about criticising the ideology, it's about writing off the people. Many in Germany felt disenfranchised. The world was vilifying them for WW1; they felt as if they were alone in the world. They knew that they were a productivity and industrial powerhouse. So they lashed out at the world. It was less about antisemitism than a general feeling of being disrespected. Perhaps had the world given them respect after WW1, they would not have stopped caring about how the world felt about them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"How do you get that?" It seemed like an obvious conclusion from your reasoning. "The more polarised people become, the higher the risk of heading down that path" implies that racism being seen as "liberating, authentic and justified" could have been avoided by less polarisation. I agree that the treatment of Germany after WWI was counter-productive but this was about economic pressure and hurt national pride rather than anything to do with criticism of antisemitism. Your argument, in the context of criticism of Reform for racism. seemed to be that critcising racism leads to an increase in racism. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Your argument, in the context of criticism of Reform for racism. seemed to be that critcising racism leads to an increase in racism. " No. Telling people that they're deplorable leads to people doing deplorable things. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No. Telling people that they're deplorable leads to people doing deplorable things." Isn't that almost the same argument as saying that critcising racism leads to an increase in racism? Unless you think that a non-racist will become a racist if you accuse them of being racist perhaps? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"No. Telling people that they're deplorable leads to people doing deplorable things. Isn't that almost the same argument as saying that critcising racism leads to an increase in racism? Unless you think that a non-racist will become a racist if you accuse them of being racist perhaps?" You can argue against an ideology, or against people. Like the difference between critical deconstruction of an argument or an ad hominem attack. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You can argue against an ideology, or against people. Like the difference between critical deconstruction of an argument or an ad hominem attack." I agree that we should all try to avoid fallacies such as ad hominem in debate. It's just that I'm struggling to understand your apparent argument that ad hominem could actually cause any kind of fundamental shift in someone's character or behaviour. I don't see how someone calling me deplorable would make me any more deplorable than I already am. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You can argue against an ideology, or against people. Like the difference between critical deconstruction of an argument or an ad hominem attack. I agree that we should all try to avoid fallacies such as ad hominem in debate. It's just that I'm struggling to understand your apparent argument that ad hominem could actually cause any kind of fundamental shift in someone's character or behaviour. I don't see how someone calling me deplorable would make me any more deplorable than I already am. " you are calling me X, I'm tagged as X, I'm treated as X, I have nothing to lose becoming X. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" you are calling me X, I'm tagged as X, I'm treated as X, I have nothing to lose becoming X." Pretty much this. Any primary school teacher would agree. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sorry, I still think you are talking rubbish. Someone who was concealing their racism might well reveal it when called a racist because they then have nothing to lose in social standing but turning from a non-racist to a racist because someone calls you racist is beyond my experience of human behaviour. If you two believe the theory and it's not a theory that's limited to "other people" then you must think that you both would become racists if people called you racists. If I had such low self-esteem and my faith in my personal autonomy was so weak then I would seek professional help as I would be literally losing my mind . As I don't believe that either of you are racists or mentally unstable then I don't think it's possible for you to become racists just because of name calling. Primary school children who haven't developed their personalities will emulate others as this is part of growing up. And there's an overhang into adulthood where, as social animals, humans will sometimes copy the behaviour of their peers and this can lead to problems like rioting but this is about emulating others not changing one's fundamental character based on how others describe you. If your theory was correct then social manipulation would be as simple as telling people that they are like what you want them to be and NotMe66 could be turned from a strong critic of Labour to a keen fan of Rachel Reeves by just telling him that he's a fan of Rachel Reeves. " I agree that calling someone a racist will not make them become a racist but it's really easy to convince someone to believe in far right ideology without them knowing that you've turned them in to a racist. Others will listen to and read what an individual may say and write and call them racist but the individual won't understand why. The people doing the recruiting then tell the individual they've turned that the people saying that they're a racist are bad people, that they don't like the country. When social media took off it became even easier to recruit. The saddest part is that people don't even realise you've sucked them in to your world of hate. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Sorry, I still think you are talking rubbish. Someone who was concealing their racism might well reveal it when called a racist because they then have nothing to lose in social standing but turning from a non-racist to a racist because someone calls you racist is beyond my experience of human behaviour. If you two believe the theory and it's not a theory that's limited to "other people" then you must think that you both would become racists if people called you racists. If I had such low self-esteem and my faith in my personal autonomy was so weak then I would seek professional help as I would be literally losing my mind . As I don't believe that either of you are racists or mentally unstable then I don't think it's possible for you to become racists just because of name calling. Primary school children who haven't developed their personalities will emulate others as this is part of growing up. And there's an overhang into adulthood where, as social animals, humans will sometimes copy the behaviour of their peers and this can lead to problems like rioting but this is about emulating others not changing one's fundamental character based on how others describe you. If your theory was correct then social manipulation would be as simple as telling people that they are like what you want them to be and NotMe66 could be turned from a strong critic of Labour to a keen fan of Rachel Reeves by just telling him that he's a fan of Rachel Reeves. I agree that calling someone a racist will not make them become a racist but it's really easy to convince someone to believe in far right ideology without them knowing that you've turned them in to a racist. Others will listen to and read what an individual may say and write and call them racist but the individual won't understand why. The people doing the recruiting then tell the individual they've turned that the people saying that they're a racist are bad people, that they don't like the country. When social media took off it became even easier to recruit. The saddest part is that people don't even realise you've sucked them in to your world of hate." I agree it can be easy to radicalise somebody towards far right ideologies without them realising it, and it also goes the other way. It is easy to convince people that having an opinion on subjects such as border control can be considered racist. 2 sides of the fence using exactly the same tactics to create exactly the same outcomes, people harden their positions believing they are fundamentally correct. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So it seems his “banter” is not quite what he claims it is….. So.. question… do reform uk voters care? Genuinely curious… Hi. Have you seen or heard any polls since this Farage story was reported? YouGov 30th Nov - 1st Dec. Reform 26%. YouGov 7th - 8th Dec. Reform 27%." Latest: Opinium 10th - 12th Dec. Reform 31%. The Get Farage campaign is getting more like Wile E Coyote and the Roadrunner every day.
What next, the ACME anvil? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Latest: Opinium 10th - 12th Dec. Reform 31%. The Get Farage campaign is getting more like Wile E Coyote and the Roadrunner every day. What next, the ACME anvil? " Opinium use slightly different modelling than other polling companies but their polling indicates a decline in Reform's performance - the last one was 32% and the one before 33%. So according to Opinium at least Reform are moving in the opposite direction to what you seem to think. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Latest: Opinium 10th - 12th Dec. Reform 31%. The Get Farage campaign is getting more like Wile E Coyote and the Roadrunner every day. What next, the ACME anvil? Opinium use slightly different modelling than other polling companies but their polling indicates a decline in Reform's performance - the last one was 32% and the one before 33%. So according to Opinium at least Reform are moving in the opposite direction to what you seem to think." Nearly but not quite. The previous from Opinium one was also 31% (26th-28th Nov) The one before that was 32% (19th -21st Nov) OK the one before that was 33% (5th- 7th Nov) However the one before that was 30% (22nd-24th Oct) Bottom line is very little change, Reform are still polling around 30% and Labour are struggling to make 20%. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Latest: Opinium 10th - 12th Dec. Reform 31%. The Get Farage campaign is getting more like Wile E Coyote and the Roadrunner every day. What next, the ACME anvil? Opinium use slightly different modelling than other polling companies but their polling indicates a decline in Reform's performance - the last one was 32% and the one before 33%. So according to Opinium at least Reform are moving in the opposite direction to what you seem to think. Nearly but not quite. The previous from Opinium one was also 31% (26th-28th Nov) The one before that was 32% (19th -21st Nov) OK the one before that was 33% (5th- 7th Nov) However the one before that was 30% (22nd-24th Oct) Bottom line is very little change, Reform are still polling around 30% and Labour are struggling to make 20%. "The opinion polls seem very varied. Just looked at the ipsos poll for November which also shows reform on 33%. However the YouGov poll shows reform much lower on 26% (1st December). YouGov show reform high of 29% earlier in the year so dropped 3% . That said it does not seem to have helped labour directly as they have dropped 7% this year. The greens are the ones who have had a rise this year overall though seems to have tailed off recently | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
