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" Or just the usual bog standard champagne socialist hypocrisy?" Bad optics for a party struggling with its image. A bit like "two jags" Prescott. In this respect, one has to respect Corbyn for (mostly) living what he preaches. She should certainly be allowed to play the system, so long as she stays on the right side of the law. But this isn't endearing her or her party, especially to those who advocate against wealth accumulation or screwing "the system". Or that the public sector needs to pay more... | |||
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"How many houses has Bojo or any of the previous 30 or 40 Tory PM's who were in charge the last year or their term?" Their messaging is that they want everyone to be empowered to become rich and successful. So you can't really compare. | |||
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"How many houses has Bojo or any of the previous 30 or 40 Tory PM's who were in charge the last year or their term?" Irrelevant they are not in government. | |||
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Even if an MP was paid £100,000 a year (which they are not) the most she could be worth is £1m and that's assuming she never spent a penny. | |||
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" The allegation appears to be that she claims to live with her ex husband, and this avoids her paying Council tax which is subsidised by Parliamentary expenses. Locals in her constituency say they never see her at her alleged “primary residence”. " Wasn’t the opposite the case when she flipped her right to buy second home claiming it was her main residence. Her rhetoric on second home owners ‘ We’re going to crack down on second home owners who are pricing locals out!’ | |||
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"Just to put some context to this. Rayner bought the house in Ashton-under-Lyne for £375,000 jointly with her then husband in 2016, a year after she was first elected as an MP. She separated from her husband in 2020, he still lives in the house with their children. Unless she "bought him out" she only owns half of it. Her salary of of nearly £160,000 a year could easily support a mortgage of £800,000. I see nothing legally or morally wrong with any of the above. The apartment in the old admiralty building in London is a grace and favour apartment. A lot of public officials and ministers have use of them and have done for decades, she doesn't own it but does need it when in London. The witch hunt over council tax is just that, a witch hunt. What does perplex me though is this. Up until she became an MP she was a care worker and a union official, neither of which is highly paid. She has been an MP for 10 Years and a secretary of state for 1 year. How on earth could her net worth be £4.7m
Even if an MP was paid £100,000 a year (which they are not) the most she could be worth is £1m and that's assuming she never spent a penny."It’s an interesting question. I’m not convinced the Council tax issue is a “witch hunt”. The way she orders her affairs affects how much Council tax she is paying, particularly in a time of double Council tax on second homes. Cabinet Ministers should set an exemplary example for everyone else. Maybe she is adhering to the law, maybe not. It should be fairly simple for an investigative journalist to ascertain where she spends her time for a few months. In terms of her wealth (a finer example of “unearned wealth” would be difficult to find) who knows how she is funding the new purchase. I don’t know how a bank would assess a mortgage for such a person. Her salary could reduce by £70k tomorrow. She could easily be reduced to zero salary in four years. I am sure I read somewhere that several former Tory MP’s have struggled to get any work outside of Parliament. | |||
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"Just to put some context to this. Rayner bought the house in Ashton-under-Lyne for £375,000 jointly with her then husband in 2016, a year after she was first elected as an MP. She separated from her husband in 2020, he still lives in the house with their children. Unless she "bought him out" she only owns half of it. Her salary of of nearly £160,000 a year could easily support a mortgage of £800,000. I see nothing legally or morally wrong with any of the above. The apartment in the old admiralty building in London is a grace and favour apartment. A lot of public officials and ministers have use of them and have done for decades, she doesn't own it but does need it when in London. The witch hunt over council tax is just that, a witch hunt. What does perplex me though is this. Up until she became an MP she was a care worker and a union official, neither of which is highly paid. She has been an MP for 10 Years and a secretary of state for 1 year. How on earth could her net worth be £4.7m
Even if an MP was paid £100,000 a year (which they are not) the most she could be worth is £1m and that's assuming she never spent a penny."I'm no fan of Rayner, but I'm seeing this story as stirring the pot... As I understand things, she has no outgoings as such, she purchased her council house for 79K in 2007, and it is worth 250k today. I would assume she has paid off that mortgage or it is a very low outgoing. The second home is a red herring, it is her ministerial home in London, no outgoings on that. The 3rd home she has recently purchased is a 3 bedroom flat in Hove approx price 700K. Joint mortgage would halve her only mortgage outgoings (in theory) £350K. Ministerial salary £151K. All very doable, I suspect the Hove residence will be the main home once she leaves office, possibly selling her Northern property to lower the mortgage. | |||
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"Just to put some context to this. Rayner bought the house in Ashton-under-Lyne for £375,000 jointly with her then husband in 2016, a year after she was first elected as an MP. She separated from her husband in 2020, he still lives in the house with their children. Unless she "bought him out" she only owns half of it. Her salary of of nearly £160,000 a year could easily support a mortgage of £800,000. I see nothing legally or morally wrong with any of the above. The apartment in the old admiralty building in London is a grace and favour apartment. A lot of public officials and ministers have use of them and have done for decades, she doesn't own it but does need it when in London. The witch hunt over council tax is just that, a witch hunt. What does perplex me though is this. Up until she became an MP she was a care worker and a union official, neither of which is highly paid. She has been an MP for 10 Years and a secretary of state for 1 year. How on earth could her net worth be £4.7m
Even if an MP was paid £100,000 a year (which they are not) the most she could be worth is £1m and that's assuming she never spent a penny.
I'm no fan of Rayner, but I'm seeing this story as stirring the pot...
As I understand things, she has no outgoings as such, she purchased her council house for 79K in 2007, and it is worth 250k today. I would assume she has paid off that mortgage or it is a very low outgoing.
The second home is a red herring, it is her ministerial home in London, no outgoings on that.
The 3rd home she has recently purchased is a 3 bedroom flat in Hove approx price 700K. Joint mortgage would halve her only mortgage outgoings (in theory) £350K.
Ministerial salary £151K.
All very doable, I suspect the Hove residence will be the main home once she leaves office, possibly selling her Northern property to lower the mortgage."I'm no fan of Rayner either, can't stand the bloody woman. You are probably right though, it is just a bit of pot stirring. On the flip side (pun intended) however. If this had been a Tory minister a couple of years ago Rayner would have been front of the queue shouting resign and giving him/her all sorts of grief. Labour were all too keen to dish it out when in opposition so no-one can really complain when they get a bit back. Karma. | |||
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"How many houses has Bojo or any of the previous 30 or 40 Tory PM's who were in charge the last year or their term? Their messaging is that they want everyone to be empowered to become rich and successful. So you can't really compare." 😂😂😂 | |||
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"I believe the OP is quite enthusiastic about Farage getting into power. Farage, who in 2019 was investigated by the European Parliament for failing to declare a bung of around a half-million quid from Aaron Banks for bills and rent on a £4.5M Chelsea pad, chauffeured cars and lots of trips to go suck Trump's cock. The investigation found a serious breach of their code of conduct and recommended the highest possible penalty. Farage didn't turn up for the hearings because not turning up for work is his special move. But why would he turn up for work? He makes way more money flogging tax-free gold bullion and presenting on GBeebies and writing garbage for the Telegraph and making dumb Cameo videos and being an "influencer" on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter than he does representing his Clacton constituents. Almost six hundred grand in the first half of this year. In the same period his MP salary was a measly £45k. Because you get what you pay for, Nige has held no surgeries - his interactions with his own constituents limited to a few zoom calls with a handful of over-65s - has attended less than half of his division votes, and has mentioned Clacton in Parliament a grand total of FOUR times. He spends more time in America than he does in his constituency. So that's Nigel's attitude to giving the people who vote for him value for their money. Property-wise, because you can't just make do with camping out in a mansion your billionaire mate rents for you, he owns a private company worth £1.3M through which he's bought a couple of buy-to-let houses totalling £1M in value. Who better to fix the housing crisis than a landlord? So I'm sure that if, as the OP hopes, Farage gets into Number 10, we can expect way, way more integrity than we're getting from the inexcusable property scammer Angela Rayner." Another 4am diatribe on a swingers website. It’s becoming quite the habit. If the good people of Clacton think that Farage isn’t properly representing them, no doubt they will kick him out at the next election. What’s that I hear you say? “But Clacton voters are all thick racists”? I fancy Farage’s chances more than I do Grifter Rayner’s, who I suspect will be binned alongside a significant number of other dim Labour MP’s. Meanwhile I see Rayner now says she lives in Hove, to avoid paying £40k in stamp duty. Hard to keep up. Lives in Hove, constituency in Ashton. I really don’t need to lift a finger to get Reform into government. Starmer’s hopeless government, Labour’s thick as pigshit MP’s and its dull, one-dimensional supporters will achieve that all by themselves. | |||
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"I believe the OP is quite enthusiastic about Farage getting into power. Farage, who in 2019 was investigated by the European Parliament for failing to declare a bung of around a half-million quid from Aaron Banks for bills and rent on a £4.5M Chelsea pad, chauffeured cars and lots of trips to go suck Trump's cock. The investigation found a serious breach of their code of conduct and recommended the highest possible penalty. Farage didn't turn up for the hearings because not turning up for work is his special move. But why would he turn up for work? He makes way more money flogging tax-free gold bullion and presenting on GBeebies and writing garbage for the Telegraph and making dumb Cameo videos and being an "influencer" on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter than he does representing his Clacton constituents. Almost six hundred grand in the first half of this year. In the same period his MP salary was a measly £45k. Because you get what you pay for, Nige has held no surgeries - his interactions with his own constituents limited to a few zoom calls with a handful of over-65s - has attended less than half of his division votes, and has mentioned Clacton in Parliament a grand total of FOUR times. He spends more time in America than he does in his constituency. So that's Nigel's attitude to giving the people who vote for him value for their money. Property-wise, because you can't just make do with camping out in a mansion your billionaire mate rents for you, he owns a private company worth £1.3M through which he's bought a couple of buy-to-let houses totalling £1M in value. Who better to fix the housing crisis than a landlord? So I'm sure that if, as the OP hopes, Farage gets into Number 10, we can expect way, way more integrity than we're getting from the inexcusable property scammer Angela Rayner. Another 4am diatribe on a swingers website. It’s becoming quite the habit. If the good people of Clacton think that Farage isn’t properly representing them, no doubt they will kick him out at the next election. What’s that I hear you say? “But Clacton voters are all thick racists”? I fancy Farage’s chances more than I do Grifter Rayner’s, who I suspect will be binned alongside a significant number of other dim Labour MP’s. Meanwhile I see Rayner now says she lives in Hove, to avoid paying £40k in stamp duty. Hard to keep up. Lives in Hove, constituency in Ashton. I really don’t need to lift a finger to get Reform into government. Starmer’s hopeless government, Labour’s thick as pigshit MP’s and its dull, one-dimensional supporters will achieve that all by themselves." Meanwhile Rayner is in government but you're slagging her off in a "diatribe on a swingers' website". The electorate put her there mate, so if the ability to win elections is your standard then you ought to shut up about it. Clacton voters aren't all thick racists because they didn't all vote for your favourite grifting bigot. One day you'll get it through your skull that you don't speak for everybody. | |||
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"I believe the OP is quite enthusiastic about Farage getting into power. Farage, who in 2019 was investigated by the European Parliament for failing to declare a bung of around a half-million quid from Aaron Banks for bills and rent on a £4.5M Chelsea pad, chauffeured cars and lots of trips to go suck Trump's cock. The investigation found a serious breach of their code of conduct and recommended the highest possible penalty. Farage didn't turn up for the hearings because not turning up for work is his special move. But why would he turn up for work? He makes way more money flogging tax-free gold bullion and presenting on GBeebies and writing garbage for the Telegraph and making dumb Cameo videos and being an "influencer" on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter than he does representing his Clacton constituents. Almost six hundred grand in the first half of this year. In the same period his MP salary was a measly £45k. Because you get what you pay for, Nige has held no surgeries - his interactions with his own constituents limited to a few zoom calls with a handful of over-65s - has attended less than half of his division votes, and has mentioned Clacton in Parliament a grand total of FOUR times. He spends more time in America than he does in his constituency. So that's Nigel's attitude to giving the people who vote for him value for their money. Property-wise, because you can't just make do with camping out in a mansion your billionaire mate rents for you, he owns a private company worth £1.3M through which he's bought a couple of buy-to-let houses totalling £1M in value. Who better to fix the housing crisis than a landlord? So I'm sure that if, as the OP hopes, Farage gets into Number 10, we can expect way, way more integrity than we're getting from the inexcusable property scammer Angela Rayner." I do not see many constituents in Clactob complaining about Nigel Farage. You are the person who has chosen,to criticise him. He is probably one of the most successfull and influential politicians of modern times. His relationship and respect for Donsld Trunp xan only help the UK. The electorate are not concerned about his wealth or assets. It is all open and above board. | |||
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".I do not see many constituents in Clactob complaining about Nigel Farage. You are the person who has chosen,to criticise him. He is probably one of the most successfull and influential politicians of modern times. His relationship and respect for Donsld Trunp xan only help the UK. The electorate are not concerned about his wealth or assets. It is all open and above board. " To be fair, I have also not seen anyone from "Clactob" complaining about Nigel Farage. And if toadying to dictators is your idea of helping the UK, then I at least compliment you on being so transparent about who you are. I do wish you and "how dare you post on a swinger forum" up there would stop talking about "the people" and "the electorate" as if every white Brit is just card-carrying fash now. You and your brownshirt buddies aren't even in the majority. | |||
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".I do not see many constituents in Clactob complaining about Nigel Farage. You are the person who has chosen,to criticise him. He is probably one of the most successfull and influential politicians of modern times. His relationship and respect for Donsld Trunp xan only help the UK. The electorate are not concerned about his wealth or assets. It is all open and above board. To be fair, I have also not seen anyone from "Clactob" complaining about Nigel Farage. And if toadying to dictators is your idea of helping the UK, then I at least compliment you on being so transparent about who you are. I do wish you and "how dare you post on a swinger forum" up there would stop talking about "the people" and "the electorate" as if every white Brit is just card-carrying fash now. You and your brownshirt buddies aren't even in the majority." . The politicians to whom I refer are all democratically elected. Hardly dictators. Sounds like you are also racist referring to white Brits. People of all denominations are members of various parties. At least according to current opinion polls Reform UK have a lead in excess of the combined current support of both Conservatives and Labour. That is quite an achievement. | |||
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". . The politicians to whom I refer are all democratically elected. Hardly dictators." A democratic election does not preclude a dictatorship, but for the sake of precision I'll revise my description of Trump to "aspiring dictator". "Sounds like you are also racist referring to white Brits." That old chestnut. Is there any point in explaining to you why that's a dumb thing to say? "People of all denominations are members of various parties. At least according to current opinion polls Reform UK have a lead in excess of the combined current support of both Conservatives and Labour. That is quite an achievement. " Yeah, around a third of the vote share. So stop acting like criticism of them or their base is criticism of the electorate as a whole. | |||
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"The latest story seems to be her avoidance of £40,000 second home stamp duty by removing her name from the deeds of her other home. " Yes, she avoided £40k of the £70k she would have paid in duty on her £800k flat in Hove had she not taken her name off the deed to her Manchester property. Technically legal, ethically shitty. In line with this government's complete failure to do what a properly social-democrat government would have done upon getting in during a huge fiscal crisis, i.e. close all accounting loopholes and tax the living shit out of anyone who can afford it. Instead, they continued to enact the austerity that has been dragging this country through slump after slump for the past seventeen years. | |||
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"Only news because she's Female Working class Labour deputy Leader Meanwhile... Jeremy hunt, remember him? Property in Pimlico, Surrey and 7 buy to let flats in Southampton which he bought with a haircut. Hardly a ripple in the news about this so move along Source: https://www.thesun.ie/news/2826150/jeremy-hunt-who-conservative-mp/ {Reported elsewhere but the words are smaller here for some of the hard of thinking} " I remember being invited to Piccadilly hotel workshops when he had just won the contract to collect a load of edu data for the government and then managed to sell them their own data back. He made a fortune from the department for education and then I think the home office he fleeced as well. | |||
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"‘Rayner ‘has skin in the game’ on second homes The Tory chairman added: “Her wider behaviour as a minister is unethical and lacks integrity, and this necessitates a formal investigation of whether the ministerial code has been breach. “If so, at the very least, an appropriate sanction could be to strip her of her ministerial residence. “You will also want to consider whether the Deputy Prime Minister must now recuse herself from all policy matters relating to taxation on second homes, given her skin in the game.” Tory graph paywall " Unsurprising to hear a Tory calling for her head. They started doing it when her only crime was no longer being poor. Realistically the only price to pay for the crime of hypocrisy is loss of vote share, which frankly is a much bigger problem for Labour right now than any ministerial code investigation would be. | |||
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"The right and right wing medai really don't like a working class woman who comes from the north of England doing well do they? She has broken no rules or laws. Non story ..." It’s literally all over the media. So it clearly is a story. | |||
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"The right and right wing medai really don't like a working class woman who comes from the north of England doing well do they? She has broken no rules or laws. Non story ... It’s literally all over the media. So it clearly is a story." Starmers backed her up And a court order preventing any details coming out. | |||
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"The right and right wing medai really don't like a working class woman who comes from the north of England doing well do they? She has broken no rules or laws. Non story ... It’s literally all over the media. So it clearly is a story." Since when did the truth figure in media coverage ? | |||
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"Not sure op but she can lap bounce on me anytime." She does like to show her beaver to influence the guys in the commons. | |||
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"The right and right wing medai really don't like a working class woman who comes from the north of England doing well do they? She has broken no rules or laws. Non story ... It’s literally all over the media. So it clearly is a story." Thats where your thinking falls down. | |||
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"The right and right wing medai really don't like a working class woman who comes from the north of England doing well do they? She has broken no rules or laws. Non story ... It’s literally all over the media. So it clearly is a story. Starmers backed her up And a court order preventing any details coming out. " You going all conspiracy on us now lol | |||
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"I believe the OP is quite enthusiastic about Farage getting into power. Farage, who in 2019 was investigated by the European Parliament for failing to declare a bung of around a half-million quid from Aaron Banks for bills and rent on a £4.5M Chelsea pad, chauffeured cars and lots of trips to go suck Trump's cock. The investigation found a serious breach of their code of conduct and recommended the highest possible penalty. Farage didn't turn up for the hearings because not turning up for work is his special move. But why would he turn up for work? He makes way more money flogging tax-free gold bullion and presenting on GBeebies and writing garbage for the Telegraph and making dumb Cameo videos and being an "influencer" on YouTube and Facebook and Twitter than he does representing his Clacton constituents. Almost six hundred grand in the first half of this year. In the same period his MP salary was a measly £45k. Because you get what you pay for, Nige has held no surgeries - his interactions with his own constituents limited to a few zoom calls with a handful of over-65s - has attended less than half of his division votes, and has mentioned Clacton in Parliament a grand total of FOUR times. He spends more time in America than he does in his constituency. So that's Nigel's attitude to giving the people who vote for him value for their money. Property-wise, because you can't just make do with camping out in a mansion your billionaire mate rents for you, he owns a private company worth £1.3M through which he's bought a couple of buy-to-let houses totalling £1M in value. Who better to fix the housing crisis than a landlord? So I'm sure that if, as the OP hopes, Farage gets into Number 10, we can expect way, way more integrity than we're getting from the inexcusable property scammer Angela Rayner.I do not see many constituents in Clactob complaining about Nigel Farage. You are the person who has chosen,to criticise him. He is probably one of the most successfull and influential politicians of modern times. His relationship and respect for Donsld Trunp xan only help the UK. The electorate are not concerned about his wealth or assets. It is all open and above board. " hahahahahahahaha  | |||
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"The right and right wing medai really don't like a working class woman who comes from the north of England doing well do they? She has broken no rules or laws. Non story ... It’s literally all over the media. So it clearly is a story. Starmers backed her up And a court order preventing any details coming out. You going all conspiracy on us now lol " Deputy prime minister and housing minister, now above lawful scrutiny on her third dubious housing taxes. Right to buy flip / cgt avoidance / second home stamp duty | |||
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"The right and right wing medai really don't like a working class woman who comes from the north of England doing well do they? She has broken no rules or laws. Non story ... It’s literally all over the media. So it clearly is a story. Starmers backed her up And a court order preventing any details coming out. You going all conspiracy on us now lol Deputy prime minister and housing minister, now above lawful scrutiny on her third dubious housing taxes. Right to buy flip / cgt avoidance / second home stamp duty " It was literally reported ....she had not broken any laws, however the Kimi suddenly says that politicians like her should be held to a higher accountability than the law. What is a higher accountability than the law, since when do we start treating others as superior to us in law when it suites us. Give it up, its tabloid pish. | |||
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"Everything Rayner has done is above board but come on, if the list below is correct she has given the hard left the middle finger!! Pays council tax on her property in Manchester, which removes the need to pay council tax on her ministerial home in London. Placed the Manchester house in trust at 650K to avoid inheritance tax her children would have paid. Claiming her new home in Hove is her main residence to avoid the extra 40K stamp duty. It is a very poor optic, and an injunction preventing her talking about her taxes seems odd. Interesting times ahead if the above is correct." It's true, the optics are absolute garbage. It does matter if it's legal or not, but even if it is, it doesn't help the gigantic harm this whole thing is doing to a party that needs to be able to rely on a perception of higher integrity and moral superiority. Obviously the press is going to dine out on this for months. Unlikely she'll recover and the Labour Party are wasting so much time and goodwill. This is also symptomatic of just how historically shit Labour have been at PR. Just hopeless. This lot are maybe not as bad at public image as Corbyn's lot, but it's close. | |||
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"Rayner now refers herself to the Ethics Adviser after admitting she hasn’t paid enough tax on her new home. Says she “considered resigning” but remarkably and surprisingly has concluded that she doesn’t need to. Shocker!" Incorrect advice. Fraud | |||
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"She's lost all credibility now and needs to go FAST" Ineptitude and dishonesty. Where does this leave starmer who currently is backing her up. | |||
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"Thank goodness one Of Keir's pledges was to stamp out impropriety instantly, not many hours to wait for this to be put to bed" People have resigned for less. Tomorrow or Friday morning ? | |||
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"Other elements are not quite so straightforward. The case was untypical because it involved her divorce, and a trust Rayner and her ex-husband had set up to provide for her son, who has lifelong disabilities. Crucially, Rayner is adamant that she sought advice from a lawyer about the stamp duty liable, and has only now learnt from a different lawyer that that advice was wrong. It is on that basis that she is not resigning." Nobody buys an £800,000 second home, having taken legal advice to set up a property trust, and to enable mitigation of stamp duty tax on the next purchase. These matters ran concurrently. She needs to publish all the legal advice This is why Downing Street on Monday had a court order issued to prevent these documents being publicised (by the barristers advising her) And in her positions as deputy PM and housing minister you’d surely seek further advice to ensure correctness of your affairs, having already been investigated for flipping her right to buy home avoiding CGT Expecting imminent resignation | |||
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"Other elements are not quite so straightforward. The case was untypical because it involved her divorce, and a trust Rayner and her ex-husband had set up to provide for her son, who has lifelong disabilities. Crucially, Rayner is adamant that she sought advice from a lawyer about the stamp duty liable, and has only now learnt from a different lawyer that that advice was wrong. It is on that basis that she is not resigning." Divorce Disabled child Lawyer Cry me a river. She showed her opponents no mercy in similar circumstances. Labour spent years oozing sanctimony in opposition and promising higher standards. All we’ve seen so far are free glasses and suits, concert tickets, private jets and tax evasion. She lived by the sword. Now she must die by it. | |||
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"Thank goodness one Of Keir's pledges was to stamp out impropriety instantly, not many hours to wait for this to be put to bed People have resigned for less. Tomorrow or Friday morning ? " She may do but it also serves Starmer to have a sacrifice lamb to remove if there's a reason.. Like a reshuffle.. She's been told in private just how dodgy the ground she walks upon going forward that's normal.. | |||
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"Thank goodness one Of Keir's pledges was to stamp out impropriety instantly, not many hours to wait for this to be put to bed People have resigned for less. Tomorrow or Friday morning ? She may do but it also serves Starmer to have a sacrifice lamb to remove if there's a reason.. Like a reshuffle.. She's been told in private just how dodgy the ground she walks upon going forward that's normal.." That's a fair point about sacrificial lamb. Starmer may sack her when is suits him best and when he needs to look strong to his party. As so often the optics are not good. All those years in opposition complaining about such things but happy to do them themselves | |||
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"Other elements are not quite so straightforward. The case was untypical because it involved her divorce, and a trust Rayner and her ex-husband had set up to provide for her son, who has lifelong disabilities. Crucially, Rayner is adamant that she sought advice from a lawyer about the stamp duty liable, and has only now learnt from a different lawyer that that advice was wrong. It is on that basis that she is not resigning." Did you know it's your responsibility to ensure you have the correct tax code? She is responsible for the ultimate decision. She could have always asked for a second opinion in the first instance. I can just imagine HMRC being inundated with high rollers saying I was also given bad advice etc etc. | |||
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"Thank goodness one Of Keir's pledges was to stamp out impropriety instantly, not many hours to wait for this to be put to bed People have resigned for less. Tomorrow or Friday morning ? She may do but it also serves Starmer to have a sacrifice lamb to remove if there's a reason.. Like a reshuffle.. She's been told in private just how dodgy the ground she walks upon going forward that's normal.. That's a fair point about sacrificial lamb. Starmer may sack her when is suits him best and when he needs to look strong to his party. As so often the optics are not good. All those years in opposition complaining about such things but happy to do them themselves " A very simplistic phrase yet again springs to mind.. Twas ever thus.. Only the colour changes.. Actually I correct myself.. Two cheeks of the same arse.. | |||
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"It's still not obvious to me that she actually owes any extra Stamp Duty. The 5% on top of SDLT only applies if you own more than one residential property and as she no longer owned any part of the Ashton-under-Lyne property (because it was owned by the trust set up for her son) I'm not sure if there is any case against her. And as it seems there are conflicting legal opinions on this perhaps we should wait for further clarification before calling for her to resign." Are you saying some above could be having an AR wank tonight without merit 😲😲😲 | |||
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"It's still not obvious to me that she actually owes any extra Stamp Duty. The 5% on top of SDLT only applies if you own more than one residential property and as she no longer owned any part of the Ashton-under-Lyne property (because it was owned by the trust set up for her son) I'm not sure if there is any case against her. And as it seems there are conflicting legal opinions on this perhaps we should wait for further clarification before calling for her to resign." If she, as the settler, put the first property into trust and is a potential beneficiary in a line, then it’s a gift with reservation and deemed taxable. This potentially opens up other issues with the second property purchase and stamp duty. Property trusts are complicated, that’s why she presumably took advice. Clearly a mistake has been made. | |||
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"Other elements are not quite so straightforward. The case was untypical because it involved her divorce, and a trust Rayner and her ex-husband had set up to provide for her son, who has lifelong disabilities. Crucially, Rayner is adamant that she sought advice from a lawyer about the stamp duty liable, and has only now learnt from a different lawyer that that advice was wrong. It is on that basis that she is not resigning." Your right regarding the details of the trust and has been set up for her son. people have asked were the money came from in the first place. So it is now now being said that the money came from NHS compensation given for complications during birth and the level of care received. I found several headlines but haven't read the story, I saw it reported on YouTube by GBnews ran a check and MSM are running it along with several others, BBC still reporting second home. | |||
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"It's still not obvious to me that she actually owes any extra Stamp Duty. The 5% on top of SDLT only applies if you own more than one residential property and as she no longer owned any part of the Ashton-under-Lyne property (because it was owned by the trust set up for her son) I'm not sure if there is any case against her. And as it seems there are conflicting legal opinions on this perhaps we should wait for further clarification before calling for her to resign." I suggest you actually read the DT article in full. The Trust did not become effective until her son's 18th birthday (after she bought the Hove flat) and therefor second home SDLT did apply. | |||
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"A flat tax rate, across the whole board, and no concessions of any kind. No offsets, nothing. Flat rate paid at point of purchase. Tax advisers would not be needed. HMRC could be trimmed down. Every little, "I can do this, shuffle that there, claim that back from doing that instead" loophole gone. " The British tax legislation, rapidly beginning to look like the most disingenuous in the world, is currently in excess of 17,000 pages For comparison the Hong Kong tax code, widely held by tax lawyers to be the most admirably efficient in the world, is 276 pages (Guardian 2015) People trying their best to look for a loophole. | |||
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"Seems she’s done well out of the system The telegraph claiming Rayner used her disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy the second home. It says she sold her share of the Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500. Her first home purchased under right to buy in 2007 she received a large RTB discount on. " She is divorced from her two children's father and they decided to ensure the safe future of their disabled son by putting their house into trust for the childrn for when they reach 18. She and her ex alternatively look after their children in said house. She needs somewhere to live when not looking after the children and purchased a flat in Brighton. If the NHS seriously damages an individual due to negilence it pays compensation. Applies to everyone. The family court will have approved the welfare and financial arrangements for the children. What a mean spirited person you are. | |||
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"If she gets fined for tax avoidance then she must resign." You can't be fined for tax avoidance as it's entirely legal. Tax avoidance is just picking the tax rule which means you get to keep the most money, and then arranging your affairs so that tax rule applies. There's nothing legally wrong with doing that. In Rayner's case she does face potential fines for misdeclaring her living status. We'll have to see if any of her errors is considered serious enough. | |||
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"Seems she’s done well out of the system The telegraph claiming Rayner used her disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy the second home. It says she sold her share of the Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500. Her first home purchased under right to buy in 2007 she received a large RTB discount on. She is divorced from her two children's father and they decided to ensure the safe future of their disabled son by putting their house into trust for the childrn for when they reach 18. She and her ex alternatively look after their children in said house. She needs somewhere to live when not looking after the children and purchased a flat in Brighton. If the NHS seriously damages an individual due to negilence it pays compensation. Applies to everyone. The family court will have approved the welfare and financial arrangements for the children. What a mean spirited person you are." She’s a tax dodger who’s tried and failed to avoid paying her dues in support of her fellow citizens. It’s the very definition of “mean spirited”. If it were anyone else Rayner would have been front of the queue to condemn them. | |||
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"It's still not obvious to me that she actually owes any extra Stamp Duty. The 5% on top of SDLT only applies if you own more than one residential property and as she no longer owned any part of the Ashton-under-Lyne property (because it was owned by the trust set up for her son) I'm not sure if there is any case against her. And as it seems there are conflicting legal opinions on this perhaps we should wait for further clarification before calling for her to resign." The bit that the papers aren't very good at mentioning us that if a trust is established to benefit a child, the legal guardians of that child are considered to be beneficiaries of the trust until the child turns 18. So in this case Rayner is still (for tax purposes) the the owner of the property even though it is in trust to her child. | |||
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"If she gets fined for tax avoidance then she must resign. You can't be fined for tax avoidance as it's entirely legal. Tax avoidance is just picking the tax rule which means you get to keep the most money, and then arranging your affairs so that tax rule applies. There's nothing legally wrong with doing that. In Rayner's case she does face potential fines for misdeclaring her living status. We'll have to see if any of her errors is considered serious enough." The meaning is clear, just substitute the term 'tax evasion'. | |||
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"If she gets fined for tax avoidance then she must resign." "You can't be fined for tax avoidance as it's entirely legal. Tax avoidance is just picking the tax rule which means you get to keep the most money, and then arranging your affairs so that tax rule applies. There's nothing legally wrong with doing that. In Rayner's case she does face potential fines for misdeclaring her living status. We'll have to see if any of her errors is considered serious enough." "The meaning is clear, just substitute the term 'tax evasion'." Oh yes. It didn't occur to me that's what he meant. Thanks for pointing that out. | |||
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"It's still not obvious to me that she actually owes any extra Stamp Duty. The 5% on top of SDLT only applies if you own more than one residential property and as she no longer owned any part of the Ashton-under-Lyne property (because it was owned by the trust set up for her son) I'm not sure if there is any case against her. And as it seems there are conflicting legal opinions on this perhaps we should wait for further clarification before calling for her to resign. The bit that the papers aren't very good at mentioning us that if a trust is established to benefit a child, the legal guardians of that child are considered to be beneficiaries of the trust until the child turns 18. So in this case Rayner is still (for tax purposes) the the owner of the property even though it is in trust to her child." I’d expect that to be clearly pointed out in writing in the lawyers letters when the trust was set up. | |||
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"If she gets fined for tax avoidance then she must resign. You can't be fined for tax avoidance as it's entirely legal. Tax avoidance is just picking the tax rule which means you get to keep the most money, and then arranging your affairs so that tax rule applies. There's nothing legally wrong with doing that. In Rayner's case she does face potential fines for misdeclaring her living status. We'll have to see if any of her errors is considered serious enough. The meaning is clear, just substitute the term 'tax evasion'. Oh yes. It didn't occur to me that's what he meant. Thanks for pointing that out." All part of the service. My fee is in the post | |||
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"It's still not obvious to me that she actually owes any extra Stamp Duty. The 5% on top of SDLT only applies if you own more than one residential property and as she no longer owned any part of the Ashton-under-Lyne property (because it was owned by the trust set up for her son) I'm not sure if there is any case against her. And as it seems there are conflicting legal opinions on this perhaps we should wait for further clarification before calling for her to resign. The bit that the papers aren't very good at mentioning us that if a trust is established to benefit a child, the legal guardians of that child are considered to be beneficiaries of the trust until the child turns 18. So in this case Rayner is still (for tax purposes) the the owner of the property even though it is in trust to her child." The thing is did she wing it against legal trust advice. The lawyers letters regarding the trust implications will have every detail and she would have had to sign it confirming her understanding. Particularly as there’s a child and the child’s home involved. Morally it’s reading like mums taken the nhs compensation and lording it up in hove having lifted Hmrc’s leg on the stamp duty. | |||
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"It's still not obvious to me that she actually owes any extra Stamp Duty. The 5% on top of SDLT only applies if you own more than one residential property and as she no longer owned any part of the Ashton-under-Lyne property (because it was owned by the trust set up for her son) I'm not sure if there is any case against her. And as it seems there are conflicting legal opinions on this perhaps we should wait for further clarification before calling for her to resign. The bit that the papers aren't very good at mentioning us that if a trust is established to benefit a child, the legal guardians of that child are considered to be beneficiaries of the trust until the child turns 18. So in this case Rayner is still (for tax purposes) the the owner of the property even though it is in trust to her child. The thing is did she wing it against legal trust advice. The lawyers letters regarding the trust implications will have every detail and she would have had to sign it confirming her understanding. Particularly as there’s a child and the child’s home involved. Morally it’s reading like mums taken the nhs compensation and lording it up in hove having lifted Hmrc’s leg on the stamp duty. " A person holding a senior office of state would never do such a thing surely? This is a principled person of socialist beliefs remember. | |||
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"How many houses has Bojo or any of the previous 30 or 40 Tory PM's who were in charge the last year or their term?" Its not about how many houses these people have it is the on paid tax. Now Starmer is defending her if she is found guilty both should go. In the words of a tax inspector our problem is with you if you have a problem with your tax advisor that is your problem. | |||
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"Starmer is worse as he is backing her and they both will hand pick the people that look into this. Even the HMRC can not be trusted. Some twisted rules will be used to get them both off the hook." I’m not convinced on that. Public opinion does not support Rayner and Labour popularity very low For Rayner it’s looking like Boris Johnson’s last days. | |||
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"Seems she’s done well out of the system The telegraph claiming Rayner used her disabled son’s NHS compensation to buy the second home. It says she sold her share of the Ashton-under-Lyne house to child’s trust for £162,500. Her first home purchased under right to buy in 2007 she received a large RTB discount on. She is divorced from her two children's father and they decided to ensure the safe future of their disabled son by putting their house into trust for the childrn for when they reach 18. She and her ex alternatively look after their children in said house. She needs somewhere to live when not looking after the children and purchased a flat in Brighton. If the NHS seriously damages an individual due to negilence it pays compensation. Applies to everyone. The family court will have approved the welfare and financial arrangements for the children. What a mean spirited person you are." It is difficult to see what relevance your post has. Angela Rayner had already admitted that she did not pay the correct amount of tax. It seems she wants to tax everyone else as much as possible but keep her own liabilities to a minimum. She is now caught and will either have to resign or be sacked. | |||
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"I see that someone has graffitied her Hove home . Police are looking it it . Any one else would be given a crime number or offered a rag and soap. I wonder if the police will devote time to this or treat her equally as every other person who has suffered anti social crimes against their person or property . " Northern chav moves in to your genteel seaside apartment block and before you know it graffiti and used vapes everywhere. Always the same story. | |||
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"I see that someone has graffitied her Hove home . Police are looking it it . Any one else would be given a crime number or offered a rag and soap. I wonder if the police will devote time to this or treat her equally as every other person who has suffered anti social crimes against their person or property . " Sir Keir Starmer has condemned 'appalling' vandalism at Angela Rayner's new seaside flat | |||
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"I see that someone has graffitied her Hove home . Police are looking it it . Any one else would be given a crime number or offered a rag and soap. I wonder if the police will devote time to this or treat her equally as every other person who has suffered anti social crimes against their person or property . " Why don't you offer to clean it off? | |||
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"Reeves has declared her full confidence in Rayner as deputy PM. It shouldn't take long now. " Wow, just when Rayner thought it could not get any worse, up pops Reeves to give support. Just been reading that Starmer is refusing to confirm or deny he will sack Rayner if she is found to be in breach of the rules | |||
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"Credit should be given to two Daily Mail readers who apparently spotted her in Hove and led the paper to investigate the activities of this foul-mouthed hypocrite. Secondly, Starmer's support for her will be great news for tax evaders and tax avoiders. Rachel Reeves will be ecstatic. " For once a shout out for the much maligned Daily Mail readers!! And why is the Gruaniad so unusually quiet on a corrupt politician story?  | |||
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""...offered a rag and soap..." Why don't you offer to clean it off?" A response like that is more likely in the Stories and Fantasies forum... | |||
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"Starmer is worse as he is backing her and they both will hand pick the people that look into this. Even the HMRC can not be trusted. Some twisted rules will be used to get them both off the hook." The writing is on the wall (literally) for Rayner now. If she weren't housing minister (and was much more popular), she might have just got away with a rap over the knuckles after paying the correct amount of stamp duty. Starmer is ever eager to show "strong leadership" and is probably just hoping for enough time to line up her replacement. For the housing minister to say "oops, I couldn't figure out the correct stamp duty because my finances were so complicated by a convoluted avoidance scheme, which wasn't really an avoidance scheme..." is asking a bit too much for the public to swallow - especially disgruntled and over-taxed Labour voters (or target voters). Nothing is getting her off the hook, unless some law firm takes a bullet for her and admits to giving her some very, very bad advice (then she might come across as merely incompetent or naive, rather than criminal). | |||
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"Reeves has declared her full confidence in Rayner as deputy PM. It shouldn't take long now. Wow, just when Rayner thought it could not get any worse, up pops Reeves to give support. Just been reading that Starmer is refusing to confirm or deny he will sack Rayner if she is found to be in breach of the rules"
The interview she gave to Beth Rigby was optically insane! The Chancellors red case sitting neatly in the left hand corner, right over her shoulder. The same red case Reeves will hold for photos on 26th Nov, that will no doubt include cuts and and taxes.
The labour party comms team are either remarkably incompetent or, remarkably devious. I wonder if they have any spray paint on their hands | |||
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"Chancellor Rachel Reeves has increased the stamp duty surcharge on second homes and investment properties from 3% to 5%, effective from tomorrow. (30 October 2024) January 2025, Rayner puts home in trust for her son May 2025, Rayner completes purchase of Hove flat. (Assumedly agreed 2/3/4 months earlier) Tax avoidance " More like insider trading. | |||
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"Is this any better if true ? Quote "Farage claimed last year to have “bought a house” in his constituency, but the property is actually owned in the name of his partner, meaning he legally avoided higher-rate stamp duty on the purchase of an additional home – given that he already owns other properties." " difference between farage and rayner is farage has never hidden the fact he works the system rayner on the other hand forever bangs on about people working the system,turns out she's no different,I meen using her son to try and dodge accountability | |||
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"Is this any better if true ? Quote "Farage claimed last year to have “bought a house” in his constituency, but the property is actually owned in the name of his partner, meaning he legally avoided higher-rate stamp duty on the purchase of an additional home – given that he already owns other properties." difference between farage and rayner is farage has never hidden the fact he works the system rayner on the other hand forever bangs on about people working the system,turns out she's no different,I meen using her son to try and dodge accountability " farage has repeatedly called people who try to avoid tax as the “common enemy” .... and yet he's back in the news today with his own higher rate stamp duty tax avoidance, tv presenting tax avoidance and offshore trust fund tax avoidance. he's is absolutely no different to any of those in parliament or in general who uses tax avoidance vehicles .... no different at all. | |||
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"Is this any better if true ? Quote "Farage claimed last year to have “bought a house” in his constituency, but the property is actually owned in the name of his partner, meaning he legally avoided higher-rate stamp duty on the purchase of an additional home – given that he already owns other properties." difference between farage and rayner is farage has never hidden the fact he works the system rayner on the other hand forever bangs on about people working the system,turns out she's no different,I meen using her son to try and dodge accountability farage has repeatedly called people who try to avoid tax as the “common enemy” .... and yet he's back in the news today with his own higher rate stamp duty tax avoidance, tv presenting tax avoidance and offshore trust fund tax avoidance. he's is absolutely no different to any of those in parliament or in general who uses tax avoidance vehicles .... no different at all." This is a grey area. Tax avoidance through legal methods is perfectly legal. Tax evasion through things like concealment or untruths is illegal. The problem for Rayner is that she's in a high-profile public role and the "Sorry, I'm a bit dim" excuse is unbelievable. | |||
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"She has just resigned." That or be sacked..  | |||
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"She has just resigned." Let's check back in 10 minutes, she might have taken the wrong advice and was meant not to resign. | |||
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"Just to put some context to this. Rayner bought the house in Ashton-under-Lyne for £375,000 jointly with her then husband in 2016, a year after she was first elected as an MP. She separated from her husband in 2020, he still lives in the house with their children. Unless she "bought him out" she only owns half of it. Her salary of of nearly £160,000 a year could easily support a mortgage of £800,000. I see nothing legally or morally wrong with this." This is where I feel sorry for her a bit When she split with her husband, her “half” of the house was put into a blind trust for her severely disabled son, who will have lifelong needs…. So where she thought it may have been in the sons stuff… until she clears the mortgage it’s technically in her name… The rest of it… it’s on her, should of absolutely have gotten the right financial advice | |||
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"Just to put some context to this. Rayner bought the house in Ashton-under-Lyne for £375,000 jointly with her then husband in 2016, a year after she was first elected as an MP. She separated from her husband in 2020, he still lives in the house with their children. Unless she "bought him out" she only owns half of it. Her salary of of nearly £160,000 a year could easily support a mortgage of £800,000. I see nothing legally or morally wrong with this. This is where I feel sorry for her a bit When she split with her husband, her “half” of the house was put into a blind trust for her severely disabled son, who will have lifelong needs…. So where she thought it may have been in the sons stuff… until she clears the mortgage it’s technically in her name… The rest of it… it’s on her, should of absolutely have gotten the right financial advice " Two specialist tax advisers advice was sought apparently, then she put a knife in the conveyances back. Good riddance. | |||
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"Starmer could now face a difficult time as any new Deputy Leader will probably come from the left and quite possibly not be as willing as Rayner was to difuse tensions between the left and right of the Labour Party. It's likely to put the brakes on any further movement to the right by Starmer, so could be a good thing from the POV of the left." Corruption minister resigned for corruption, and now housing minister for stamp duty fraud. Who’s next | |||
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"Starmer could now face a difficult time as any new Deputy Leader will probably come from the left and quite possibly not be as willing as Rayner was to difuse tensions between the left and right of the Labour Party. It's likely to put the brakes on any further movement to the right by Starmer, so could be a good thing from the POV of the left." Not sure I agree but can see what your saying, someone not so left might get the nod but the perceived threat is farage and I think Starmer has to try and address that going forward.. | |||
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"Starmers response to Rayner's resignation is hand written, and barely readable. I know that might sound nit picking but I'm constantly surprised by labour party optics. " Did he use a Quill Pen? | |||
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"Not sure I agree but can see what your saying, someone not so left might get the nod but the perceived threat is farage and I think Starmer has to try and address that going forward.." According to the BBC chief political correspondent... "The hurdle to become a deputy leadership candidate is quite high, needing the backing of around 80 MPs as well as support from trade unions and constituency parties. But the assumption among Labour MPs I’ve been speaking to who are beginning to game out this scenario is that the most left-wing candidate to make it onto the ballot paper would win." So it's likely that the replacement will be at least as left-wing as Rayner but might not be as willing to defuse left-wing discontent as she was. I'm assuming you think that in order to combat Reform Labour should move futher right? If so I disagree. I think Labour need to hold their nerve and concentrate on the centre ground (while reaching out to those on their left where there is policy agreement). Moving further to the right into the space already occupied by the Tories would make Labour just as irrelevant as the Tories have become. | |||
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"Is this any better if true ? Quote "Farage claimed last year to have “bought a house” in his constituency, but the property is actually owned in the name of his partner, meaning he legally avoided higher-rate stamp duty on the purchase of an additional home – given that he already owns other properties." difference between farage and rayner is farage has never hidden the fact he works the system rayner on the other hand forever bangs on about people working the system,turns out she's no different,I meen using her son to try and dodge accountability farage has repeatedly called people who try to avoid tax as the “common enemy” .... and yet he's back in the news today with his own higher rate stamp duty tax avoidance, tv presenting tax avoidance and offshore trust fund tax avoidance. he's is absolutely no different to any of those in parliament or in general who uses tax avoidance vehicles .... no different at all." I didn't say he was but farrage is well known for being dodgy rayner on the other hand usually can't scream loud enough about people not paying there share,we'll only when it's not her,soon as the spotlight is shone on her she tries hiding behind her disabled son,fact is she's no better than farrage and the majority of the others in parliament,some animals are more equal than others I guess | |||
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"Is this any better if true ? Quote "Farage claimed last year to have “bought a house” in his constituency, but the property is actually owned in the name of his partner, meaning he legally avoided higher-rate stamp duty on the purchase of an additional home – given that he already owns other properties." difference between farage and rayner is farage has never hidden the fact he works the system rayner on the other hand forever bangs on about people working the system,turns out she's no different,I meen using her son to try and dodge accountability farage has repeatedly called people who try to avoid tax as the “common enemy” .... and yet he's back in the news today with his own higher rate stamp duty tax avoidance, tv presenting tax avoidance and offshore trust fund tax avoidance. he's is absolutely no different to any of those in parliament or in general who uses tax avoidance vehicles .... no different at all.I didn't say he was but farrage is well known for being dodgy rayner on the other hand usually can't scream loud enough about people not paying there share,we'll only when it's not her,soon as the spotlight is shone on her she tries hiding behind her disabled son,fact is she's no better than farrage and the majority of the others in parliament,some animals are more equal than others I guess" you mean farage is more equal as he gets to keep his job .... mental | |||
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"Is this any better if true ? Quote "Farage claimed last year to have “bought a house” in his constituency, but the property is actually owned in the name of his partner, meaning he legally avoided higher-rate stamp duty on the purchase of an additional home – given that he already owns other properties." difference between farage and rayner is farage has never hidden the fact he works the system rayner on the other hand forever bangs on about people working the system,turns out she's no different,I meen using her son to try and dodge accountability farage has repeatedly called people who try to avoid tax as the “common enemy” .... and yet he's back in the news today with his own higher rate stamp duty tax avoidance, tv presenting tax avoidance and offshore trust fund tax avoidance. he's is absolutely no different to any of those in parliament or in general who uses tax avoidance vehicles .... no different at all.I didn't say he was but farrage is well known for being dodgy rayner on the other hand usually can't scream loud enough about people not paying there share,we'll only when it's not her,soon as the spotlight is shone on her she tries hiding behind her disabled son,fact is she's no better than farrage and the majority of the others in parliament,some animals are more equal than others I guess you mean farage is more equal as he gets to keep his job .... mental" again he hasn't built his career on slagging of people who cheat the system unlike the ginger whinger unfortunatley she got caught with her fingers in the pie | |||
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"Not sure I agree but can see what your saying, someone not so left might get the nod but the perceived threat is farage and I think Starmer has to try and address that going forward.. According to the BBC chief political correspondent... "The hurdle to become a deputy leadership candidate is quite high, needing the backing of around 80 MPs as well as support from trade unions and constituency parties. But the assumption among Labour MPs I’ve been speaking to who are beginning to game out this scenario is that the most left-wing candidate to make it onto the ballot paper would win." So it's likely that the replacement will be at least as left-wing as Rayner but might not be as willing to defuse left-wing discontent as she was. I'm assuming you think that in order to combat Reform Labour should move futher right? If so I disagree. I think Labour need to hold their nerve and concentrate on the centre ground (while reaching out to those on their left where there is policy agreement). Moving further to the right into the space already occupied by the Tories would make Labour just as irrelevant as the Tories have become. " So in summary, Labour will be abandoning their pretence of being centre ground and veer sharply to the left? God help us all. | |||
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"Well she's lost the extra £67,500 (as of 2024) she was getting for being a cabinet minister. Silly bitch. "Quarter million pounds in ministerial earnings over the four remaining years sacrificed for £40k attempted fraud What a mug | |||
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"So in summary, Labour will be abandoning their pretence of being centre ground and veer sharply to the left? God help us all." No what I'm predicting is that left/right divisions in Labour will increase slightly and this will make it more likely that the party will stay on the centre ground rather than moving further right. Also policies like limiting the winter fuel allowance that were unpopular amongst back benchers will be less likely to be implemented in future. | |||
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"again he hasn't built his career on slagging of people who cheat the system unlike the ginger whinger unfortunatley she got caught with her fingers in the pie" be as selective as you like for your sad little hearthrob chap but the fact remains that he has repeatedly called people who try to avoid tax as the “common enemy” .... you're welcome | |||
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"So in summary, Labour will be abandoning their pretence of being centre ground and veer sharply to the left? God help us all. No what I'm predicting is that left/right divisions in Labour will increase slightly and this will make it more likely that the party will stay on the centre ground rather than moving further right. Also policies like limiting the winter fuel allowance that were unpopular amongst back benchers will be less likely to be implemented in future." Let's hope you're right (about staying centrist). It will tell us a lot about who's pulling the strings in the Labour Party in 2025. | |||
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"Regardless of if and buts pleading wrong advice or ignorance is no defence in the eyes of HMRC and she should be prosecuted and fined for tax evasion which is what she has committed............" Bent CV Reeves and Starmer supporting her up to yesterday too | |||
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"Not sure I agree but can see what your saying, someone not so left might get the nod but the perceived threat is farage and I think Starmer has to try and address that going forward.. According to the BBC chief political correspondent... "The hurdle to become a deputy leadership candidate is quite high, needing the backing of around 80 MPs as well as support from trade unions and constituency parties. But the assumption among Labour MPs I’ve been speaking to who are beginning to game out this scenario is that the most left-wing candidate to make it onto the ballot paper would win." So it's likely that the replacement will be at least as left-wing as Rayner but might not be as willing to defuse left-wing discontent as she was. I'm assuming you think that in order to combat Reform Labour should move futher right? If so I disagree. I think Labour need to hold their nerve and concentrate on the centre ground (while reaching out to those on their left where there is policy agreement). Moving further to the right into the space already occupied by the Tories would make Labour just as irrelevant as the Tories have become. " Thanks.. I read that earlier.. i meant to say will try to address not should but your right in your point about the centre, farage is nowhere near there no matter how much he talks about nationalising steel etc | |||
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"Let's hope you're right (about staying centrist). It will tell us a lot about who's pulling the strings in the Labour Party in 2025." It remains to be seen, I'm just pondering possible knock on effects of Rayner going. Starmer will probably appoint someone further to the right than her as a temporary deputy leader. But in a deputy leadership election I suspect it will be someone further to the left of that appointee that wins. Rayner was useful to Starmer because she could be used as a "good cop" to persuade potential rebels to stay in line with policy decisions that they didn't like. I don't know who else could fill that role. So ultimately it will probably weaken Starmer's ability to move further to the right (which seems to be his natural instinct). | |||
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"Let's hope you're right (about staying centrist). It will tell us a lot about who's pulling the strings in the Labour Party in 2025. It remains to be seen, I'm just pondering possible knock on effects of Rayner going. Starmer will probably appoint someone further to the right than her as a temporary deputy leader. But in a deputy leadership election I suspect it will be someone further to the left of that appointee that wins. Rayner was useful to Starmer because she could be used as a "good cop" to persuade potential rebels to stay in line with policy decisions that they didn't like. I don't know who else could fill that role. So ultimately it will probably weaken Starmer's ability to move further to the right (which seems to be his natural instinct)." Not going well for him at all, government borrowing, small boats, asylum hotels, two ministers resigned for corruption and fraud. Public don’t even view Labour as a government. | |||
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"Starmers response to Rayner's resignation is hand written, and barely readable. I know that might sound nit picking but I'm constantly surprised by labour party optics. Did he use a Quill Pen?" He isn't allowed anything sharp, it looks like they might have taken the nib out of his biro. | |||
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"Let's hope you're right (about staying centrist). It will tell us a lot about who's pulling the strings in the Labour Party in 2025. It remains to be seen, I'm just pondering possible knock on effects of Rayner going. Starmer will probably appoint someone further to the right than her as a temporary deputy leader. But in a deputy leadership election I suspect it will be someone further to the left of that appointee that wins. Rayner was useful to Starmer because she could be used as a "good cop" to persuade potential rebels to stay in line with policy decisions that they didn't like. I don't know who else could fill that role. So ultimately it will probably weaken Starmer's ability to move further to the right (which seems to be his natural instinct). Not going well for him at all, government borrowing, small boats, asylum hotels, two ministers resigned for corruption and fraud. Public don’t even view Labour as a government. " He will need to let go of Reeves soon too. Streeting has been reading the room and being vocal in support of the public mood. That is not by coincidence. | |||
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"Regardless of if and buts pleading wrong advice or ignorance is no defence in the eyes of HMRC and she should be prosecuted and fined for tax evasion which is what she has committed............" Are you confusing Tax Evasion (Illegal) with Tax Avoidance (Legal)? There’s no evidence that she has evaded paying tax. | |||
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"Streeting has been reading the room and being vocal in support of the public mood. That is not by coincidence." Streeting generally seems to talk to sense to me. | |||
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"Streeting has been reading the room and being vocal in support of the public mood. That is not by coincidence. Streeting generally seems to talk to sense to me."
I agree, seems the most switched on and can communicate well | |||
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"Regardless of if and buts pleading wrong advice or ignorance is no defence in the eyes of HMRC and she should be prosecuted and fined for tax evasion which is what she has committed............ Are you confusing Tax Evasion (Illegal) with Tax Avoidance (Legal)? There’s no evidence that she has evaded paying tax. " She deliberately did not pay tax that was due,that is evasion, avoidance is using legal reasons not to pay tax. She is a thief and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law | |||
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"He will need to let go of Reeves soon too. Streeting has been reading the room and being vocal in support of the public mood. That is not by coincidence." I think it very unlikely that Reeves will be going anywhere soon as it's too close to the budget. Maybe a month or two after, so January at the earliest. Starmer could then put the blame for any fallout on her and present it as "a new year - a new outlook". Who do you think would/should replace her? | |||
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"He will need to let go of Reeves soon too. Streeting has been reading the room and being vocal in support of the public mood. That is not by coincidence. I think it very unlikely that Reeves will be going anywhere soon as it's too close to the budget. Maybe a month or two after, so January at the earliest. Starmer could then put the blame for any fallout on her and present it as "a new year - a new outlook". Who do you think would/should replace her? " You can’t have a major reshuffle in September and then bin your Chancellor in January. You need stability after this. They have said she is already safe and that has to mean for at least another 18 months. | |||
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" There’s no evidence that she has evaded paying tax. " She admitted it. In a best case scenario, she did it through negligence or incompetence. | |||
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"Regardless of if and buts pleading wrong advice or ignorance is no defence in the eyes of HMRC and she should be prosecuted and fined for tax evasion which is what she has committed............ Are you confusing Tax Evasion (Illegal) with Tax Avoidance (Legal)? There is no evidence that she intentionally evaded tax. She relied on flawed advice, and attempted to correct the error that she made. She attempted act in good faith. In the position(s) she held she couldn’t carry on. There’s no evidence that she has evaded paying tax. She deliberately did not pay tax that was due,that is evasion, avoidance is using legal reasons not to pay tax. She is a thief and should be prosecuted to the full extent of the law" | |||
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"Streeting generally seems to talk to sense to me." People on the right like Wes Streeting but he looks a bit dodgy to me. Apparently as of October last year he'd been paid over £300,000 by private health care donors. No wonder he supports the use of private companies in the NHS. | |||
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"Streeting generally seems to talk to sense to me. People on the right like Wes Streeting but he looks a bit dodgy to me. Apparently as of October last year he'd been paid over £300,000 by private health care donors. No wonder he supports the use of private companies in the NHS. " Right of the Labour Party, left of the tories. I think that describes most of the population. | |||
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"Streeting generally seems to talk to sense to me. People on the right like Wes Streeting but he looks a bit dodgy to me. Apparently as of October last year he'd been paid over £300,000 by private health care donors. No wonder he supports the use of private companies in the NHS. " A Prime Minister who lies 24/7 Chancellor who lied on her CV Anti-corruption minister charged with corruption Business Secretary pretended to be solicitor Homelessness minister exploited rental tenants Transport Secretary committed fraud Deputy PM evaded tax New deputy PM who called Potus a Neo Nazi Kkk supporter. | |||
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" There’s no evidence that she has evaded paying tax. She admitted it. In a best case scenario, she did it through negligence or incompetence." Again thre is no evidence that she evaded tax. She MAY have avoided Tax. HMRC would have to determine that. Once again Tax Evasion and Tax Avoidance are 2 separate things. | |||
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" There’s no evidence that she has evaded paying tax. She admitted it. In a best case scenario, she did it through negligence or incompetence. Again thre is no evidence that she evaded tax. She MAY have avoided Tax. HMRC would have to determine that. Once again Tax Evasion and Tax Avoidance are 2 separate things." Sounds like she’s resigned over nothing. | |||
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"Streeting generally seems to talk to sense to me. People on the right like Wes Streeting but he looks a bit dodgy to me. Apparently as of October last year he'd been paid over £300,000 by private health care donors. No wonder he supports the use of private companies in the NHS. A Prime Minister who lies 24/7 Chancellor who lied on her CV Anti-corruption minister charged with corruption Business Secretary pretended to be solicitor Homelessness minister exploited rental tenants Transport Secretary committed fraud Deputy PM evaded tax New deputy PM who called Potus a Neo Nazi Kkk supporter. " And yet they won the election with a landslide. What does that say about the UK voters 😱 | |||
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"He will need to let go of Reeves soon too. Streeting has been reading the room and being vocal in support of the public mood. That is not by coincidence. I think it very unlikely that Reeves will be going anywhere soon as it's too close to the budget. Maybe a month or two after, so January at the earliest. Starmer could then put the blame for any fallout on her and present it as "a new year - a new outlook". Who do you think would/should replace her? You can’t have a major reshuffle in September and then bin your Chancellor in January. You need stability after this. They have said she is already safe and that has to mean for at least another 18 months." I'm not so sure, although what you say is the norm for stability, I think we are in for a bumpy end of year & Q1. Starmer bringing in Baroness Minouche Shafik, who reports directly to him, set the scene for the end of Reeves in my opinion. This bump in the road could have delayed that, as you point out. | |||
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