Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"With the exception of the Covid period today’s news reporting UK car manufacturing has slumped to its lowest level since 1953. Only 2020 was worse in the past 72 years, when factories were shut during pandemic lockdown. Will the ZEM mandate and government incentives for EV’s save the day for car makers. " The ongoing impact of Brexit. Trade barriers introduced taking their toll. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Businesses are not buying new or renewing fleets, they are holding back cashflow due to a genuine lack of confidence, the figures for April were a shock. That is not the overall reason but it will play into the figures along with all the factors. " So part of the overarching economic slowdown. Rising unemployment and reduced business investment/confidence. More businesses closing than opening. Big ticket purchases like vehicles a key indicator. What are Reeves and the Bank of England going to do. Sleep walking into more trouble. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"And China is knocking out EV's at an astonishing rate, 1.2 million ev's exported in 2024. What are we doing wrong. "1 in 10 new cars sold in uk are reportedly made in china. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Businesses are not buying new or renewing fleets, they are holding back cashflow due to a genuine lack of confidence, the figures for April were a shock. That is not the overall reason but it will play into the figures along with all the factors. So part of the overarching economic slowdown. Rising unemployment and reduced business investment/confidence. More businesses closing than opening. Big ticket purchases like vehicles a key indicator. What are Reeves and the Bank of England going to do. Sleep walking into more trouble. " Unfortunately yes. The cost of NI increases as an example, need to come from somewhere. Uncertainty around the economic landscape and where we are headed, tends to slow spending and stifle growth as businesses hold on to what they have. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Businesses are not buying new or renewing fleets, they are holding back cashflow due to a genuine lack of confidence, the figures for April were a shock. That is not the overall reason but it will play into the figures along with all the factors. So part of the overarching economic slowdown. Rising unemployment and reduced business investment/confidence. More businesses closing than opening. Big ticket purchases like vehicles a key indicator. What are Reeves and the Bank of England going to do. Sleep walking into more trouble. Unfortunately yes. The cost of NI increases as an example, need to come from somewhere. Uncertainty around the economic landscape and where we are headed, tends to slow spending and stifle growth as businesses hold on to what they have." ‘The estimate of employees on the payroll dropped by around 41,000 in June while the unemployment rate grew to 4.7 per cent, a four-year high. In the year to June, some 178,000 people were pushed out of work. Vacancies dropped in 14 of the 18 industry sectors, which suggests businesses have “curtailed hiring plans” according to Capital Economics’ Paul Dales’. (City AM) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"None of this sounds unexpected. We've had decades of underinvestment, Brexit, covid and international market instability caused by wars and Trump. As I keep saying - there aren't any easy options for the government. They boxed themselves in on tax increases so the only thing they had left to raise a bit of cash was the employer NI increase. In itself a bad move but we are so badly in debt that it was about the only mechanism available to generate some liquidity. I know it's fun complaining but does anyone have any interesting ideas of how to make things better for the economy? I know some on the right think loads of money could be saved by policy changes on immigration and foreign aid but in reality any such changes would generate peanuts. Government spending is over £1.2 trillion a year and rising. Finding a few tens of billions here and there might sound great but in the larger scheme of things it's not going to make much difference. I think it's going to be very hard, long and boring slog for a couple of decades where small improvements on a large number of fronts slowy improve things. That's the positive scenario. Something unpredictable like another pandemic could happen that sets us back. Another danger is shifting to a populist government with naive policies that could fail miserably and make things far worse. " To say, saving few 10's of billion here and there isn't going to make much of a difference is economic naivety. The direction of travel adds confidence in the markets and business, which in itself supports the gilt. Bad decision making forces it the other way and borrowing costs run out of control, as they are doing now. The stark reality is, the economy was growing under the Tories and Reeves has lost it and any monies she had is now being spent on spiralling debt costs. She has increased borrowing costs, been forceful in policy that created costs of billions in u-turns, introduced tax hikes that have stopped business growth and paid out billions in public sector pay rises before the economic landscape was full understood. It has been a disaster from day 1 and Starmer is culpable through his inaction, or it could be his lack of understanding. Whichever, it is costing time and the countries economic future. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To say, saving few 10's of billion here and there isn't going to make much of a difference is economic naivety. The direction of travel adds confidence in the markets and business, which in itself supports the gilt. Bad decision making forces it the other way and borrowing costs run out of control, as they are doing now. The stark reality is, the economy was growing under the Tories and Reeves has lost it and any monies she had is now being spent on spiralling debt costs. She has increased borrowing costs, been forceful in policy that created costs of billions in u-turns, introduced tax hikes that have stopped business growth and paid out billions in public sector pay rises before the economic landscape was full understood. It has been a disaster from day 1 and Starmer is culpable through his inaction, or it could be his lack of understanding. Whichever, it is costing time and the countries economic future." So if you were in control what would you do? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To say, saving few 10's of billion here and there isn't going to make much of a difference is economic naivety. The direction of travel adds confidence in the markets and business, which in itself supports the gilt. Bad decision making forces it the other way and borrowing costs run out of control, as they are doing now. The stark reality is, the economy was growing under the Tories and Reeves has lost it and any monies she had is now being spent on spiralling debt costs. She has increased borrowing costs, been forceful in policy that created costs of billions in u-turns, introduced tax hikes that have stopped business growth and paid out billions in public sector pay rises before the economic landscape was full understood. It has been a disaster from day 1 and Starmer is culpable through his inaction, or it could be his lack of understanding. Whichever, it is costing time and the countries economic future." On the question of the cost of borrowing I've just been looking at the 10 year gilt yield data. It's currently 4.6%. When Labour came to power it was about 3.9%, so yes it's risen in the last 12 months. But if you look back two years to when the Tories were in power it was also 4.6%! The real spike in the cost of borrowing happened between 2020 and 2023 when it shot up from 0.2% to 4.6%. While the Tories were in control. So your claim that Labour policy has hiked the cost of gilts isn't true as the rate today is almost identical to the rate it was two years ago. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To say, saving few 10's of billion here and there isn't going to make much of a difference is economic naivety. The direction of travel adds confidence in the markets and business, which in itself supports the gilt. Bad decision making forces it the other way and borrowing costs run out of control, as they are doing now. The stark reality is, the economy was growing under the Tories and Reeves has lost it and any monies she had is now being spent on spiralling debt costs. She has increased borrowing costs, been forceful in policy that created costs of billions in u-turns, introduced tax hikes that have stopped business growth and paid out billions in public sector pay rises before the economic landscape was full understood. It has been a disaster from day 1 and Starmer is culpable through his inaction, or it could be his lack of understanding. Whichever, it is costing time and the countries economic future. On the question of the cost of borrowing I've just been looking at the 10 year gilt yield data. It's currently 4.6%. When Labour came to power it was about 3.9%, so yes it's risen in the last 12 months. But if you look back two years to when the Tories were in power it was also 4.6%! The real spike in the cost of borrowing happened between 2020 and 2023 when it shot up from 0.2% to 4.6%. While the Tories were in control. So your claim that Labour policy has hiked the cost of gilts isn't true as the rate today is almost identical to the rate it was two years ago. " Gilt yields rose 2021–23 due to global influences and inflation. However, the rise from 3.9% to 4.6% under Labour is down to market concerns around Reeves and her credibility. Her bad decisions have added approx: £11bn year extra in debt interest £5–9bn in U-turn costs £16bn in public sector pay rises That’s is £30 - £35bn lost in under a year. She planned to borrow £137bn with £10bn headroom, estimated to be nearer £155bn, wiping out her headroom and returns from tax hikes. These are Reeves policies and choices, they have dented market and business confidence, hit growth, and cost billions. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To say, saving few 10's of billion here and there isn't going to make much of a difference is economic naivety. The direction of travel adds confidence in the markets and business, which in itself supports the gilt. Bad decision making forces it the other way and borrowing costs run out of control, as they are doing now. The stark reality is, the economy was growing under the Tories and Reeves has lost it and any monies she had is now being spent on spiralling debt costs. She has increased borrowing costs, been forceful in policy that created costs of billions in u-turns, introduced tax hikes that have stopped business growth and paid out billions in public sector pay rises before the economic landscape was full understood. It has been a disaster from day 1 and Starmer is culpable through his inaction, or it could be his lack of understanding. Whichever, it is costing time and the countries economic future. On the question of the cost of borrowing I've just been looking at the 10 year gilt yield data. It's currently 4.6%. When Labour came to power it was about 3.9%, so yes it's risen in the last 12 months. But if you look back two years to when the Tories were in power it was also 4.6%! The real spike in the cost of borrowing happened between 2020 and 2023 when it shot up from 0.2% to 4.6%. While the Tories were in control. So your claim that Labour policy has hiked the cost of gilts isn't true as the rate today is almost identical to the rate it was two years ago. Gilt yields rose 2021–23 due to global influences and inflation. However, the rise from 3.9% to 4.6% under Labour is down to market concerns around Reeves and her credibility. Her bad decisions have added approx: £11bn year extra in debt interest £5–9bn in U-turn costs £16bn in public sector pay rises That’s is £30 - £35bn lost in under a year. She planned to borrow £137bn with £10bn headroom, estimated to be nearer £155bn, wiping out her headroom and returns from tax hikes. These are Reeves policies and choices, they have dented market and business confidence, hit growth, and cost billions." Mrs Reeves could cash in the confiscated bitcoin estimated to be 5 billion to prop up the uk coffers. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Gilt yields rose 2021–23 due to global influences and inflation. However, the rise from 3.9% to 4.6% under Labour is down to market concerns around Reeves and her credibility. Her bad decisions have added approx: £11bn year extra in debt interest £5–9bn in U-turn costs £16bn in public sector pay rises That’s is £30 - £35bn lost in under a year. She planned to borrow £137bn with £10bn headroom, estimated to be nearer £155bn, wiping out her headroom and returns from tax hikes. These are Reeves policies and choices, they have dented market and business confidence, hit growth, and cost billions." I strongly recommend readers look up the graph for 10 year UK gilts over the past 10 years as they'll see how ridiculous your argument is. Labour came into power in July 2024. In January 2022 (well after the end of covid lockdowns) yields were 1%, by October that year they had climbed to 4.2%. Yet we are to believe that this 420% increase in the cost of borrowing over 10 months should be ignored because the Tories were in power. Yet a rise from 3.9% to 4.6% (an increase of less than 18% over 12 months) is the end of the world because Labour are in power. If you look at the graph you will see that the fluctuations we have seen in the last 12 months are completely normal variations. Nothing in the least bit unusual. To remind everyone again, the cost of government borrowing now is the same as it was under Sunak two years ago. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Gilt yields rose 2021–23 due to global influences and inflation. However, the rise from 3.9% to 4.6% under Labour is down to market concerns around Reeves and her credibility. Her bad decisions have added approx: £11bn year extra in debt interest £5–9bn in U-turn costs £16bn in public sector pay rises That’s is £30 - £35bn lost in under a year. She planned to borrow £137bn with £10bn headroom, estimated to be nearer £155bn, wiping out her headroom and returns from tax hikes. These are Reeves policies and choices, they have dented market and business confidence, hit growth, and cost billions. I strongly recommend readers look up the graph for 10 year UK gilts over the past 10 years as they'll see how ridiculous your argument is. Labour came into power in July 2024. In January 2022 (well after the end of covid lockdowns) yields were 1%, by October that year they had climbed to 4.2%. Yet we are to believe that this 420% increase in the cost of borrowing over 10 months should be ignored because the Tories were in power. Yet a rise from 3.9% to 4.6% (an increase of less than 18% over 12 months) is the end of the world because Labour are in power. If you look at the graph you will see that the fluctuations we have seen in the last 12 months are completely normal variations. Nothing in the least bit unusual. To remind everyone again, the cost of government borrowing now is the same as it was under Sunak two years ago. " You do seem to struggle with economics and make it about whataboutery. I will not get into this type of discussion with you again, life is too short. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You do seem to struggle with economics and make it about whataboutery." We were both talking about UK gilt yields changing over time. I don't see how pointing out that yields are the same now as they were two years ago counts as whataboutery. "I will not get into this type of discussion with you again, life is too short. " That's a pity. I enjoy debating with you because we have almost diametrically opposing views on the political aspects of economics and I like having my assumptions challenged as that's an efficient way of learning. I was also hoping you were going to tell us what you would do if you were in control rather than Reeves. We could do with some alternative thinking. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You do seem to struggle with economics and make it about whataboutery. We were both talking about UK gilt yields changing over time. I don't see how pointing out that yields are the same now as they were two years ago counts as whataboutery. I will not get into this type of discussion with you again, life is too short. That's a pity. I enjoy debating with you because we have almost diametrically opposing views on the political aspects of economics and I like having my assumptions challenged as that's an efficient way of learning. I was also hoping you were going to tell us what you would do if you were in control rather than Reeves. We could do with some alternative thinking." The conditions of yields two years ago are entirely different, the causes and consequences today aren’t comparable. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"With the exception of the Covid period today’s news reporting UK car manufacturing has slumped to its lowest level since 1953. Only 2020 was worse in the past 72 years, when factories were shut during pandemic lockdown. Will the ZEM mandate and government incentives for EV’s save the day for car makers. " Well the subsidies should help maybe, once they figure out what vehicles qualify as there seems some confusion on the matter. However this downturn is not restricted to the UK by any means. Apart from the Chinese all countries are suffering the same sort of thing. Even VW are shutting plants, including in China. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
