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"Government borrowing has increased again. Borrowing increased to £20.7bn in June. £3.6bn more than the treasury experts predicted; that’s a 15% miscalculation Bond yields have fallen, food inflation +5.2%, rents +6.7%. Rising unemployment. More businesses closing than opening. Economic growth fallen Will an interest rate cut and more tax rises save the day? " No. Labour haven’t got a clue what they are doing when it comes to business and the economy. Not surprising given the dearth of relevant experience in the government. I’m always surprised that every day we get an “unexpected” set of worsening economic data from the “experts” whereas pretty much every man and woman in the street could have forecast exactly what was coming. Expect another four years of the same. Every day another scramble for some more of someone else’s cash to splurge on Labour’s core vote. The idea of expanding the economy to increase government receipts is beyond them. It just goes totally against their core tax and spend ideology. Totally ponderous. | |||
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"Doesn't help the press is constantly so negative. Go out spend your cash and whatever you have left invest. We need to switch our mindset conservatives were terrible labour is trying to help." So the state of the economy is the media’s fault? | |||
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"Doesn't help the press is constantly so negative. Go out spend your cash and whatever you have left invest. We need to switch our mindset conservatives were terrible labour is trying to help. So the state of the economy is the media’s fault?" The mood of country can be down to constant negativity from headlines | |||
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"Doesn't help the press is constantly so negative. Go out spend your cash and whatever you have left invest. We need to switch our mindset conservatives were terrible labour is trying to help. So the state of the economy is the media’s fault? The mood of country can be down to constant negativity from headlines " So the media should be cheerleaders for a hopeless government? Sounds like North Korea. | |||
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"Hey, if things continue this way we could end up with the economic miracle that was Thatcherism when inflation was 17%, unemployment 11% and interest rates 16%." Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. | |||
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"Doesn't help the press is constantly so negative. Go out spend your cash and whatever you have left invest. We need to switch our mindset conservatives were terrible labour is trying to help. So the state of the economy is the media’s fault? The mood of country can be down to constant negativity from headlines So the media should be cheerleaders for a hopeless government? Sounds like North Korea." They did with Johnson and Truss even though that was against the 99% interest | |||
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"Hey, if things continue this way we could end up with the economic miracle that was Thatcherism when inflation was 17%, unemployment 11% and interest rates 16%. Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. " No labour have always come in to terrible inheritance left by every conservative and then get the blame | |||
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"Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth." Go look at the actual data on inflation, unemployment and interest rates - then come back. Although I will concede that there was a massive spike following the Yom Kippur War that skewed the inflation numbers a bit. | |||
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"Labour one month in: it’s Sunak's fault Labour one year in: it’s Thatcher's fault. I guess Disraeli will be getting it next." Cawblem, like Cameron didn't blame the global financial crash on Gordon brown. Who is globally renowned for saving the banks | |||
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"Labour one month in: it’s Sunak's fault Labour one year in: it’s Thatcher's fault. I guess Disraeli will be getting it next." I don't think anybody is blaming Thatcher for what has happened recently but Thatcher supporters always blame the disaster that she presided over on Labour. | |||
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"Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. Go look at the actual data on inflation, unemployment and interest rates - then come back. Although I will concede that there was a massive spike following the Yom Kippur War that skewed the inflation numbers a bit. " The economy was tanked and tanking, the conservatives arriving doesn't cancel the direction of travel overnight. The figures you are stating were provided by the labour party who had brought the country to its knees. | |||
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"The reality in front of us is that Britain borrowed £148bn last year and £105bn or almost three-quarters of that increase in our national debt went on interest payments on debt previously incurred. £78 billion more than forecast. The UK's public finances resemble a Ponzi scheme. When challenged about the state of our public finances, Reeves and Keir Starmer cite crowd-pleasing nonsense about “school breakfast clubs” and “world class public services”. As if it’s fine to drive the UK into bankruptcy, provoking a full-on bail-out and all the resulting financial and economic chaos because the money is being spent under virtue-signalling headings ! In short we are fucked. Even if we had elected a genuinely strong government last year with a genius Chancellor we would have been up against it. We have elected muppets who I wouldn't trust to run a corner shop. " You telling me were fucked on 43 billion? Get a grip!! Go out and enjoy yourself | |||
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"I see another patriot Screaming from another country" True patriots never holiday abroad?  | |||
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"I live in the UK . Not planning to leave as my business is there. Genuinely worried about the future " Well, well, almost as if you can't move wealth | |||
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"I see another patriot Screaming from another country True patriots never holiday abroad? "Apparently we moved to Spain and nobody told us lol | |||
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"I see another patriot Screaming from another country True patriots never holiday abroad?
Apparently we moved to Spain and nobody told us lol"You mean you haven't??? Blimey | |||
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"The economy was tanked and tanking, the conservatives arriving doesn't cancel the direction of travel overnight. The figures you are stating were provided by the labour party who had brought the country to its knees." I've got the year by year data in front of me. It's not from the Labour party. It's clear to me that you can't be bothered to look up the data. You've just swallowed the whole Thatcher was an economic genius BS and been too lazy to check if it's actually true. Thatcher came to power in May 1979. In 1978 inflation was 8.26%. By 1980 it was 17.97%. In 1978 unemployment was 5.4%. By 1984 it was 11.9%. In 1978 interest rates were 9%. In 1980 they were 16% and were still over 13% when she left office. Sadly people on the right have built up a myth about Thatcher and most people have just blindly gone along with it. | |||
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"Hey, if things continue this way we could end up with the economic miracle that was Thatcherism when inflation was 17%, unemployment 11% and interest rates 16%. Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. " 😂😂😂 you're like a cultist with that bolox | |||
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"The economy was tanked and tanking, the conservatives arriving doesn't cancel the direction of travel overnight. The figures you are stating were provided by the labour party who had brought the country to its knees. I've got the year by year data in front of me. It's not from the Labour party. It's clear to me that you can't be bothered to look up the data. You've just swallowed the whole Thatcher was an economic genius BS and been too lazy to check if it's actually true. Thatcher came to power in May 1979. In 1978 inflation was 8.26%. By 1980 it was 17.97%. In 1978 unemployment was 5.4%. By 1984 it was 11.9%. In 1978 interest rates were 9%. In 1980 they were 16% and were still over 13% when she left office. Sadly people on the right have built up a myth about Thatcher and most people have just blindly gone along with it. " You’ve just proved my point, Thatcher inherited the economy in 1979, and the situation worsened before it improved, because of the inherited problems she set out to fix. Inflation was around 8% in 1978 but that was after years of double digit inflation under Labour, reaching over 24% in 1975. Interest rates and inflation rose again in 1980 because she took a grip of monetary policy to crush inflation. That was deliberate and it worked. Unemployment rose because loss making state industries were no longer artificially propped up. It was painful but absolutely necessary to move forward from the mess the country was in, the nickname sick man of Europe wasn't a compliment during the 70's. It was an embarrassing state to be in, being bailed out by the IMF, unions destroying the infrastructure with constant industrial action etc etc... Inflation was brought under control, the UK economy entered 15+ years of sustained growth, starting mid-1980s. You have figures but not the back story to fully understand how those figures came about, and how they would need to get worse before they could get better under a rigid plan that delivered. | |||
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"Enjoy the French debt while we the actual patriots try to figure out Britain " You've not a clue. Not only can you not read but you're economically illiterate. I'm on holiday in France. I pay my taxes in the UK. I resent this as this govt and other idiot governments of the last 30 years waste much of this money on the idle , on paying back debt, the wasteful NHS, net zero bullshit, 3rd world immigrants, foreign wars and a million other useless pet projects which sink this country further into the mire. You talk about Thatcher. She did many things wrong as do all Prime Ministers. She did however turn this country round so it became rich and successful. She thought long term and didn't care what the media said, she stuck to her guns and guess what: her economics worked in the long term. So much so that by 1997 the country had cleared its national debt. Labour and to a lesser extent the fake pink conservatives under Cameron, May and Boris undid all that. My God this country needs her back now. | |||
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"You have figures but not the back story to fully understand how those figures came about, and how they would need to get worse before they could get better under a rigid plan that delivered." ROFL | |||
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"Hey, if things continue this way we could end up with the economic miracle that was Thatcherism when inflation was 17%, unemployment 11% and interest rates 16%. Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. " | |||
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"The economy was tanked and tanking, the conservatives arriving doesn't cancel the direction of travel overnight. The figures you are stating were provided by the labour party who had brought the country to its knees. I've got the year by year data in front of me. It's not from the Labour party. It's clear to me that you can't be bothered to look up the data. You've just swallowed the whole Thatcher was an economic genius BS and been too lazy to check if it's actually true. Thatcher came to power in May 1979. In 1978 inflation was 8.26%. By 1980 it was 17.97%. In 1978 unemployment was 5.4%. By 1984 it was 11.9%. In 1978 interest rates were 9%. In 1980 they were 16% and were still over 13% when she left office. Sadly people on the right have built up a myth about Thatcher and most people have just blindly gone along with it. You’ve just proved my point, Thatcher inherited the economy in 1979, and the situation worsened before it improved, because of the inherited problems she set out to fix. Inflation was around 8% in 1978 but that was after years of double digit inflation under Labour, reaching over 24% in 1975. Interest rates and inflation rose again in 1980 because she took a grip of monetary policy to crush inflation. That was deliberate and it worked. Unemployment rose because loss making state industries were no longer artificially propped up. It was painful but absolutely necessary to move forward from the mess the country was in, the nickname sick man of Europe wasn't a compliment during the 70's. It was an embarrassing state to be in, being bailed out by the IMF, unions destroying the infrastructure with constant industrial action etc etc... Inflation was brought under control, the UK economy entered 15+ years of sustained growth, starting mid-1980s. You have figures but not the back story to fully understand how those figures came about, and how they would need to get worse before they could get better under a rigid plan that delivered. " Never laughed so much 😂 | |||
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"The economy was tanked and tanking, the conservatives arriving doesn't cancel the direction of travel overnight. The figures you are stating were provided by the labour party who had brought the country to its knees. I've got the year by year data in front of me. It's not from the Labour party. It's clear to me that you can't be bothered to look up the data. You've just swallowed the whole Thatcher was an economic genius BS and been too lazy to check if it's actually true. Thatcher came to power in May 1979. In 1978 inflation was 8.26%. By 1980 it was 17.97%. In 1978 unemployment was 5.4%. By 1984 it was 11.9%. In 1978 interest rates were 9%. In 1980 they were 16% and were still over 13% when she left office. Sadly people on the right have built up a myth about Thatcher and most people have just blindly gone along with it. You’ve just proved my point, Thatcher inherited the economy in 1979, and the situation worsened before it improved, because of the inherited problems she set out to fix. Inflation was around 8% in 1978 but that was after years of double digit inflation under Labour, reaching over 24% in 1975. Interest rates and inflation rose again in 1980 because she took a grip of monetary policy to crush inflation. That was deliberate and it worked. Unemployment rose because loss making state industries were no longer artificially propped up. It was painful but absolutely necessary to move forward from the mess the country was in, the nickname sick man of Europe wasn't a compliment during the 70's. It was an embarrassing state to be in, being bailed out by the IMF, unions destroying the infrastructure with constant industrial action etc etc... Inflation was brought under control, the UK economy entered 15+ years of sustained growth, starting mid-1980s. You have figures but not the back story to fully understand how those figures came about, and how they would need to get worse before they could get better under a rigid plan that delivered. Never laughed so much 😂" I can imagine, economics under the guidance of the grifter Gary Stevenson tends to do that to people. | |||
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" I can imagine, economics under the guidance of the grifter Gary Stevenson tends to do that to people. " Grifter? What’s the grift? Bit of strange take | |||
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" I can imagine, economics under the guidance of the grifter Gary Stevenson tends to do that to people. Grifter? What’s the grift? Bit of strange take" You need to work this out yourself, or it will be back and forth on opinion not fact. However, trust me he is making ££'s out of his influence and taking people on a journey that delivers nothing but soundbites and somewhere to hang the anger. | |||
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"You talk about Thatcher. She did many things wrong as do all Prime Ministers. She did however turn this country round so it became rich and successful. She thought long term and didn't care what the media said, she stuck to her guns and guess what: her economics worked in the long term. So much so that by 1997 the country had cleared its national debt. Labour and to a lesser extent the fake pink conservatives under Cameron, May and Boris undid all that. My God this country needs her back now." National debt has risen virtually every year. In 1978 it was £79 billion. Under Thatcher it went up to £192 billion. By 1997 it was £350 billion. Yes, we are in a lot of debt and it keeps going up but please stop pretending that Thatcher did amazing things that she didn't do. | |||
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" I can imagine, economics under the guidance of the grifter Gary Stevenson tends to do that to people. Grifter? What’s the grift? Bit of strange take You need to work this out yourself, or it will be back and forth on opinion not fact. However, trust me he is making ££'s out of his influence and taking people on a journey that delivers nothing but soundbites and somewhere to hang the anger. " How can a millionaire who is asking for the government to increase taxes on millionaires be on some grift? This is why I can't take your ever devout belief in Margaret Thatcher seriously. It's just selection bias and it's you who needs to work out you're in a cult | |||
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"I am, in France , at a swingers resort. Loving it. I'd advise anyone with equity to invest in tangible, safe assets not linked to the UK . The sobering reality is this.. A thousand minutes ago was yesterday. A million minutes ago was 2023. A billion minutes ago was 123 AD. The wheel barrow was invented. A trillion minutes ago the land masses of America, Europe and Africa were joined and had dinosaurs on them. The UK is £2.8 *trillion* in debt" "525,600 minutes" Season's of Love from rent how do measure a year | |||
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"You talk about Thatcher. She did many things wrong as do all Prime Ministers. She did however turn this country round so it became rich and successful. She thought long term and didn't care what the media said, she stuck to her guns and guess what: her economics worked in the long term. So much so that by 1997 the country had cleared its national debt. Labour and to a lesser extent the fake pink conservatives under Cameron, May and Boris undid all that. My God this country needs her back now. National debt has risen virtually every year. In 1978 it was £79 billion. Under Thatcher it went up to £192 billion. By 1997 it was £350 billion. Yes, we are in a lot of debt and it keeps going up but please stop pretending that Thatcher did amazing things that she didn't do. " Thatherism is a cult. Right leaning politics like to use it as some bastion of economic success, though it was anything but that😂 a complete failure for the people of the UK, just like every other twat since. | |||
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"More good news the IFS is saying the state pension age could increase to 69 by 2049, and age 74 by 2069; potentially a working lifetime of 56 years. Won’t be long before mortgages may need to be extended to this period. 84% of mortgages on the market now have a maximum term of 40 years. And how will money purchase auto enrolment work out for people. I guess every generation has had its problems but it does now look like a race to the bottom " By that stage everyone should have enough of a private or workplace pension and not depend on the state pension anyway. | |||
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"Thatherism is a cult. Right leaning politics like to use it as some bastion of economic success, though it was anything but that😂 a complete failure for the people of the UK, just like every other twat since." I used to have a lot of time for moderate Tories. The so-called wets and One Nation types. I didn't agree with them on many things but they seemed to be honest, rational and genuinely interested is making the UK a better place for everyone. Unfortunately they seem to have pretty much disappeared. In these old days there were also dry Tories, people who were big fans of Thatcher. I had far less in common with them but at least they had specific well thought out things they admired about her. I might disagree with them but they were still sane. Now we seem to have a lot of Thatcher worshippers who aren't interested in facts or figures or any kind of nuance. They seem to believe she was totally fantastic as a matter of pure faith. It's like the MAGA thing. Indeed it seems like those who adore Thatcher also adore Trump. It's weird. | |||
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"Thatherism is a cult. Right leaning politics like to use it as some bastion of economic success, though it was anything but that😂 a complete failure for the people of the UK, just like every other twat since. I used to have a lot of time for moderate Tories. The so-called wets and One Nation types. I didn't agree with them on many things but they seemed to be honest, rational and genuinely interested is making the UK a better place for everyone. Unfortunately they seem to have pretty much disappeared. In these old days there were also dry Tories, people who were big fans of Thatcher. I had far less in common with them but at least they had specific well thought out things they admired about her. I might disagree with them but they were still sane. Now we seem to have a lot of Thatcher worshippers who aren't interested in facts or figures or any kind of nuance. They seem to believe she was totally fantastic as a matter of pure faith. It's like the MAGA thing. Indeed it seems like those who adore Thatcher also adore Trump. It's weird. " Probably not as weird as Leftists going on about Thatcher decades after she left office. Tbh I never actually hear conservatives talk about Thatcher. The only people I ever hear droning on endlessly about her are Leftists. At the moment it’s obviously just a distraction technique. The thread was actually about the latest grim economic news. But the thread was rapidly hijacked by Leftists desperate to talk about anything else. Rational person: “the latest fiscal data doesn’t look good”. Leftists: “Thatcher”! It’s almost like nothing has happened since 1991 and there haven’t been any Labour governments since. It’s sad that so many Leftists are stuck in the past. The country has problems now and it needs a government focused on the present. | |||
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"It's interesting that Farage seems to be pushing for the retirement age to go up at an even faster rate. I'm not sure how this will go down with Reforn voters." An ageing population, far less people in final salary schemes, and more renters. Reduced health, increasing obesity. Shortage of homes suitable for older people Equity release is the fastest growing sector in the mortgage industry, I read 8% year on year growth. | |||
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"It’s sad that so many Leftists are stuck in the past. The country has problems now and it needs a government focused on the present." Scratch a Tory and they scream Thatcher. This thread is saying things are terrible now and going to get worse. My reposté was yeah, it might even get as bad as it was under Thatcher when inflation was 17.9%, unemployment was 11.9% and the interest rate was 16%. You can now go back to slagging off the current government because inflation is 3.6%, unemploment is 4.7% and the interest rate is 4.25%. | |||
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" I can imagine, economics under the guidance of the grifter Gary Stevenson tends to do that to people. Grifter? What’s the grift? Bit of strange take You need to work this out yourself, or it will be back and forth on opinion not fact. However, trust me he is making ££'s out of his influence and taking people on a journey that delivers nothing but soundbites and somewhere to hang the anger. How can a millionaire who is asking for the government to increase taxes on millionaires be on some grift? This is why I can't take your ever devout belief in Margaret Thatcher seriously. It's just selection bias and it's you who needs to work out you're in a cult" Unbelievable 
You can't see the grift can you, the message hits the right notes for you I guess. | |||
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"It’s sad that so many Leftists are stuck in the past. The country has problems now and it needs a government focused on the present. Scratch a Tory and they scream Thatcher. This thread is saying things are terrible now and going to get worse. My reposté was yeah, it might even get as bad as it was under Thatcher when inflation was 17.9%, unemployment was 11.9% and the interest rate was 16%. You can now go back to slagging off the current government because inflation is 3.6%, unemploment is 4.7% and the interest rate is 4.25%. " I was taught early on to always have a rough idea of what the answer should be before trusting the calculator. Sanity check it before you commit. I like to think that advice is still worth passing on today, especially since the use of AI. | |||
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" it might even get as bad as it was under Thatcher when inflation was 17.9%, unemployment was 11.9% and the interest rate was 16%. You can now go back to slagging off the current government because inflation is 3.6%, unemploment is 4.7% and the interest rate is 4.25%. " Boris Johnson years were better, in 2020, inflation was 0.9%, unemployment 4.6%, interest rates 0.1% and free furlough money Why did he get such a bad wrap and where has it all gone wrong. | |||
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"It’s sad that so many Leftists are stuck in the past. The country has problems now and it needs a government focused on the present. Scratch a Tory and they scream Thatcher. This thread is saying things are terrible now and going to get worse. My reposté was yeah, it might even get as bad as it was under Thatcher when inflation was 17.9%, unemployment was 11.9% and the interest rate was 16%. You can now go back to slagging off the current government because inflation is 3.6%, unemploment is 4.7% and the interest rate is 4.25%. " You forgot the property crash in september 1989 when property prices dropped my half with lots of repossessions due to interest so high. | |||
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"It’s sad that so many Leftists are stuck in the past. The country has problems now and it needs a government focused on the present. Scratch a Tory and they scream Thatcher. This thread is saying things are terrible now and going to get worse. My reposté was yeah, it might even get as bad as it was under Thatcher when inflation was 17.9%, unemployment was 11.9% and the interest rate was 16%. You can now go back to slagging off the current government because inflation is 3.6%, unemploment is 4.7% and the interest rate is 4.25%. " You have selective memory failure. Under Wilson-Callaghan, inflation peaked at 25.2% while interest rates were never in single digits and peaked at 17%. This was the government that had to go cap in hand to the IMF in 1976 and by 1979 I remember walking down Smithdown Road in Liverpool past the pickets outside the cemetery who prevented bodies being buried for weeks. Yeah right on comrade. | |||
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"It’s sad that so many Leftists are stuck in the past. The country has problems now and it needs a government focused on the present. Scratch a Tory and they scream Thatcher. This thread is saying things are terrible now and going to get worse. My reposté was yeah, it might even get as bad as it was under Thatcher when inflation was 17.9%, unemployment was 11.9% and the interest rate was 16%. You can now go back to slagging off the current government because inflation is 3.6%, unemploment is 4.7% and the interest rate is 4.25%. You have selective memory failure. Under Wilson-Callaghan, inflation peaked at 25.2% while interest rates were never in single digits and peaked at 17%. This was the government that had to go cap in hand to the IMF in 1976 and by 1979 I remember walking down Smithdown Road in Liverpool past the pickets outside the cemetery who prevented bodies being buried for weeks. Yeah right on comrade. " And basic rate income tax at 35%. Imagine that now. Higher rate investment taxes were up to 83%. Part of excess over £4,500 Higher rate The first £500 40 per cent. The next £1,000 45 per cent. The next £1,000 50 per cent. The next £1,000 55 per cent. The next £2,000 60 per cent. The next £2,000 65 per cent. The next £3,000 70 per cent. The next £5,000 75 per cent. The remainder 83 per cent. | |||
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"It’s sad that so many Leftists are stuck in the past. The country has problems now and it needs a government focused on the present. Scratch a Tory and they scream Thatcher. This thread is saying things are terrible now and going to get worse. My reposté was yeah, it might even get as bad as it was under Thatcher when inflation was 17.9%, unemployment was 11.9% and the interest rate was 16%. You can now go back to slagging off the current government because inflation is 3.6%, unemploment is 4.7% and the interest rate is 4.25%. You forgot the property crash in september 1989 when property prices dropped my half with lots of repossessions due to interest so high. " Property prices dropped on average 20%, with high drop areas peaking at about 35% in the period 89-91 so nowhere near a drop of a half. | |||
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"You have selective memory failure. Under Wilson-Callaghan, inflation peaked at 25.2% while interest rates were never in single digits and peaked at 17%. This was the government that had to go cap in hand to the IMF in 1976 and by 1979 I remember walking down Smithdown Road in Liverpool past the pickets outside the cemetery who prevented bodies being buried for weeks. Yeah right on comrade." OK let's look back at the years prior to Thatcher's "economic miracle". Interest rates peaked at 15% in Oct 76 and then fell to 5% a year later then they went up again and were 12% when Thatcher came to power in May 1979. By November that year they were 17%. UK inflation between 1960 and 1972 was in the range 1% to 7% and then the Yom Kippur War happened. Younger readers might want to look up the 1973 Yom Kippur Oil Crisis to understand what happened to the world-wide economy then. So inflation rocketed to 24.21% in 1975. If you go way back up this thread you will see that I said "Although I will concede that there was a massive spike following the Yom Kippur War that skewed the inflation numbers a bit." Anyway, under the Wilson and Callaghan Labour governments inflation had dropped right back down to 8.26% by 1978. Then Thatcher got in and inflation more than doubled to 17.97%. Unemployment in 1970 was 3.4% but had risen to 5.3% by the end of the Callaghan government. Then Thatcher got in and unemployment more than doubled to 11.9%. UK national debt was £79 billion at the end of the Callaghan government. Then Thatcher got in and debt more than doubled to £192 billion. Can you see the pattern? | |||
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"And basic rate income tax at 35%. Imagine that now. Higher rate investment taxes were up to 83%. Part of excess over £4,500 Higher rate The first £500 40 per cent. The next £1,000 45 per cent. The next £1,000 50 per cent. The next £1,000 55 per cent. The next £2,000 60 per cent. The next £2,000 65 per cent. The next £3,000 70 per cent. The next £5,000 75 per cent. The remainder 83 per cent." Average adult male wages in 1978 were £82 a week. No regular worker paid those tax rates. They did however pay VAT. Standard rate VAT was 8% in 1978. Then Thatcher got in and VAT went up to 15%. | |||
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"And basic rate income tax at 35%. Imagine that now. Higher rate investment taxes were up to 83%. Part of excess over £4,500 Higher rate The first £500 40 per cent. The next £1,000 45 per cent. The next £1,000 50 per cent. The next £1,000 55 per cent. The next £2,000 60 per cent. The next £2,000 65 per cent. The next £3,000 70 per cent. The next £5,000 75 per cent. The remainder 83 per cent. Average adult male wages in 1978 were £82 a week. No regular worker paid those tax rates. They did however pay VAT. Standard rate VAT was 8% in 1978. Then Thatcher got in and VAT went up to 15%. " Workers were paying 33% tax, the above is correct. VAT was charged at 2 different rates, Thatcher combined them. The 83% top PAYE and 98% tax on unearned income were so extreme the 98% was the highest tax by a developed nation ever. This directly contributed to the brain drain, professionals and high earners left the country. Bringing this back to the subject of today's Chancellor, the figures are not the same but the pattern of economic policy is shaping up to potentially resemble what has gone before. An added bonus and a nod to the past, we are hearing calls from the marxists demanding the introduction of wealth taxes. | |||
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"Workers were paying 33% tax, the above is correct. VAT was charged at 2 different rates, Thatcher combined them. The 83% top PAYE and 98% tax on unearned income were so extreme the 98% was the highest tax by a developed nation ever. This directly contributed to the brain drain, professionals and high earners left the country. Bringing this back to the subject of today's Chancellor, the figures are not the same but the pattern of economic policy is shaping up to potentially resemble what has gone before. An added bonus and a nod to the past, we are hearing calls from the marxists demanding the introduction of wealth taxes." I think the base rate was 34% not 33% or 35%. To be fair it's quite difficult researching this stuff as the language used back then was pretty obtuse. Here's the Hansard record I found... "HC Deb 17 April 1978 vol 948 cc173-4173 §Motion made, and Question, That— (1) Income tax for the year 1978–79 shall be charged at the basic rate of 34 per cent.; and— (a) in respect of so much of an individual's total income as does not exceed £750 at the rate of 25 per cent.; (b) in respect of so much of an individual's total income as exceeds £7,000 at such higher rates as are specified in the Table below; and (c) in respect of so much of the investment income included in an individual's total income as exceeds £1,700 at the additional rates of 10 per cent. for the first £550 of the excess and 15 per cent. for the remainder; except that in the case of an individual who shows that, at any time within that year, his age or that of his wife living with him was sixty-five years or more, paragraph (c) above shall have effect with the substitution for the references to £1,700 and £550 of references to £2,500 and £500 respectively." -------------------- On VAT the basic rate in 1978 was 8% and the higher rate was 12.5%. So Thatcher increased both the standard and higher rates into one uniform 15% rate. In 1991 the Tories increased it again to 17.5%. Then in 2011 they increased it again to 20%. The Tories absolutely love VAT. In 1994 the Tories raised VAT on domestic fuel and power from zero to 8% and wanted to increase it to 17.5% a year later but lost the vote. In 1997 Labour reduced VAT on domestic fuel and power to 5%. | |||
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"Workers were paying 33% tax, the above is correct. VAT was charged at 2 different rates, Thatcher combined them. The 83% top PAYE and 98% tax on unearned income were so extreme the 98% was the highest tax by a developed nation ever. This directly contributed to the brain drain, professionals and high earners left the country. Bringing this back to the subject of today's Chancellor, the figures are not the same but the pattern of economic policy is shaping up to potentially resemble what has gone before. An added bonus and a nod to the past, we are hearing calls from the marxists demanding the introduction of wealth taxes. I think the base rate was 34% not 33% or 35%. To be fair it's quite difficult researching this stuff as the language used back then was pretty obtuse. Here's the Hansard record I found... HC Deb 17 April 1978 vol 948 cc173-4173 §Motion made, and Question, That— (1) Income tax for the year 1978–79 shall be charged at the basic rate of 34 per cent.; and— (a) in respect of so much of an individual's total income as does not exceed £750 at the rate of 25 per cent.; (b) in respect of so much of an individual's total income as exceeds £7,000 at such higher rates as are specified in the Table below; and (c) in respect of so much of the investment income included in an individual's total income as exceeds £1,700 at the additional rates of 10 per cent. for the first £550 of the excess and 15 per cent. for the remainder; except that in the case of an individual who shows that, at any time within that year, his age or that of his wife living with him was sixty-five years or more, paragraph (c) above shall have effect with the substitution for the references to £1,700 and £550 of references to £2,500 and £500 respectively. -------------------- On VAT the basic rate in 1978 was 8% and the higher rate was 12.5%. So Thatcher increased both the standard and higher rates into one uniform 15% rate. In 1991 the Tories increased it again to 17.5%. Then in 2011 they increased it again to 20%. The Tories absolutely love VAT. In 1994 the Tories raised VAT on domestic fuel and power from zero to 8% and wanted to increase it to 17.5% a year later but lost the vote. In 1997 Labour reduced VAT on domestic fuel and power to 5%. " You are right on the 78–79 basic rate being 34%. The 83% top PAYE and 98% tax on unearned income were extreme, and it did drive out talent, hence the “brain drain”. It’s still the highest tax rate ever applied by a developed country. The issues we have today are not Thatcher or Healey it’s Reeves. Her policies have no coherent growth strategy, business confidence is falling rapidly as such, and now we are hearing calls for wealth taxes, just like the past. Everyone should be concerned about the current state of the economy and how it is being managed, it impacts us all. Starmer has one job to do, and he needs to get on and do it. | |||
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" The issues we have today are not Thatcher or Healey it’s Reeves. Her policies have no coherent growth strategy, business confidence is falling rapidly as such, and now we are hearing calls for wealth taxes, just like the past. Everyone should be concerned about the current state of the economy and how it is being managed, it impacts us all. Starmer has one job to do, and he needs to get on and do it." What’s gone before irrelevant now I agree Desperate attempts by Reeves, penny grabbing from farmers, pensioners, disabled and school fee Vat, combined £2/3bn at best. While in one month government debt increases forecasts by £3.6bn More businesses closing than opening, big ticket purchases like cars and holidays down, rising unemployment and more taxes on business and not a scooby how to turn the economy around. Labour are out of ideas. A bit of financial deregulation might keep the mortgage and housing market up for another couple of years. Where are we heading. | |||
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" The issues we have today are not Thatcher or Healey it’s Reeves. Her policies have no coherent growth strategy, business confidence is falling rapidly as such, and now we are hearing calls for wealth taxes, just like the past. Everyone should be concerned about the current state of the economy and how it is being managed, it impacts us all. Starmer has one job to do, and he needs to get on and do it. What’s gone before irrelevant now I agree Desperate attempts by Reeves, penny grabbing from farmers, pensioners, disabled and school fee Vat, combined £2/3bn at best. While in one month government debt increases forecasts by £3.6bn More businesses closing than opening, big ticket purchases like cars and holidays down, rising unemployment and more taxes on business and not a scooby how to turn the economy around. Labour are out of ideas. A bit of financial deregulation might keep the mortgage and housing market up for another couple of years. Where are we heading. " The deregulation proposals need to be understood a little more, we have travelled this path ironically under Thatcher and ultimately to disaster under Blair & Brown. I have zero faith that Reeves is covering the bases. | |||
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"You are right on the 78–79 basic rate being 34%. The 83% top PAYE and 98% tax on unearned income were extreme, and it did drive out talent, hence the “brain drain”. It’s still the highest tax rate ever applied by a developed country. The issues we have today are not Thatcher or Healey it’s Reeves. Her policies have no coherent growth strategy, business confidence is falling rapidly as such, and now we are hearing calls for wealth taxes, just like the past. Everyone should be concerned about the current state of the economy and how it is being managed, it impacts us all. Starmer has one job to do, and he needs to get on and do it." I think the higher rate taxes in the 1970s were daft. I'm not sure what impact they actually had on government income or brain drain. It's very difficult to do that kind of research and probably not worth any normal persons's effort. Maybe some postgraduate academic somewhere is combing through the dust, but for you and I it's a waste of time. I'm no fan of Reeves. She does seem to be out of her depth. Starmer's pretty hopeless too. But it's really annoying to hear Tories talk utter bollocks about Thatcher and perpetuate falsehoods. Anyway. I don't see any easy ways forward. The UK is in a f*ck of a lot of debt. Our productiity is not great. We have a lunatic in charge of the largest economy on the planet and several wars going on. Brexit was a stupid thing to do too. I caution people looking for simple answers. There aren't any. Just moaning about the current government or pretending they are communists isn't at all useful. | |||
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"There's strong speculation that Reeves will hit pension savings to fill her 'black hole'. The government are making the case that tax exempt pension contributions are an overly generous perk. They are nothing of the kind. It's just that tax is applied at pension withdrawal not investment. Otherwise pensions are taxed twice." A potential £70bn is reported. But at what cost to retirees with state pension to be deferred again. And auto enrolment low contribution rates will pay out little | |||
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"You are right on the 78–79 basic rate being 34%. The 83% top PAYE and 98% tax on unearned income were extreme, and it did drive out talent, hence the “brain drain”. It’s still the highest tax rate ever applied by a developed country. The issues we have today are not Thatcher or Healey it’s Reeves. Her policies have no coherent growth strategy, business confidence is falling rapidly as such, and now we are hearing calls for wealth taxes, just like the past. Everyone should be concerned about the current state of the economy and how it is being managed, it impacts us all. Starmer has one job to do, and he needs to get on and do it. I think the higher rate taxes in the 1970s were daft. I'm not sure what impact they actually had on government income or brain drain. It's very difficult to do that kind of research and probably not worth any normal persons's effort. Maybe some postgraduate academic somewhere is combing through the dust, but for you and I it's a waste of time. I'm no fan of Reeves. She does seem to be out of her depth. Starmer's pretty hopeless too. But it's really annoying to hear Tories talk utter bollocks about Thatcher and perpetuate falsehoods. Anyway. I don't see any easy ways forward. The UK is in a f*ck of a lot of debt. Our productiity is not great. We have a lunatic in charge of the largest economy on the planet and several wars going on. Brexit was a stupid thing to do too. I caution people looking for simple answers. There aren't any. Just moaning about the current government or pretending they are communists isn't at all useful. " Seems to me the government are out of ideas how to stimulate the economy. If they ever had any. Debt is less of a problem if you have income. Those 1.5 million homes not getting built, car manufacturing at 72 year low, more businesses closing than opening. Commercial property listings on rightmove increasing as everyone wants out. All we are getting is more regulation and higher tax. | |||
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"There's strong speculation that Reeves will hit pension savings to fill her 'black hole'. The government are making the case that tax exempt pension contributions are an overly generous perk. They are nothing of the kind. It's just that tax is applied at pension withdrawal not investment. Otherwise pensions are taxed twice." I'm not up on the rumors, but tax being applied twice is pretty much routine - we pay income tax then we pay VAT or duty on top for instance. | |||
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"Seems to me the government are out of ideas how to stimulate the economy. If they ever had any. Debt is less of a problem if you have income. Those 1.5 million homes not getting built, car manufacturing at 72 year low, more businesses closing than opening. Commercial property listings on rightmove increasing as everyone wants out. All we are getting is more regulation and higher tax." Do you have any policy suggestions that would stimulate the economy? | |||
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"You are right on the 78–79 basic rate being 34%. The 83% top PAYE and 98% tax on unearned income were extreme, and it did drive out talent, hence the “brain drain”. It’s still the highest tax rate ever applied by a developed country. The issues we have today are not Thatcher or Healey it’s Reeves. Her policies have no coherent growth strategy, business confidence is falling rapidly as such, and now we are hearing calls for wealth taxes, just like the past. Everyone should be concerned about the current state of the economy and how it is being managed, it impacts us all. Starmer has one job to do, and he needs to get on and do it. I think the higher rate taxes in the 1970s were daft. I'm not sure what impact they actually had on government income or brain drain. It's very difficult to do that kind of research and probably not worth any normal persons's effort. Maybe some postgraduate academic somewhere is combing through the dust, but for you and I it's a waste of time. I'm no fan of Reeves. She does seem to be out of her depth. Starmer's pretty hopeless too. But it's really annoying to hear Tories talk utter bollocks about Thatcher and perpetuate falsehoods. Anyway. I don't see any easy ways forward. The UK is in a f*ck of a lot of debt. Our productiity is not great. We have a lunatic in charge of the largest economy on the planet and several wars going on. Brexit was a stupid thing to do too. I caution people looking for simple answers. There aren't any. Just moaning about the current government or pretending they are communists isn't at all useful. Seems to me the government are out of ideas how to stimulate the economy. If they ever had any. Debt is less of a problem if you have income. Those 1.5 million homes not getting built, car manufacturing at 72 year low, more businesses closing than opening. Commercial property listings on rightmove increasing as everyone wants out. All we are getting is more regulation and higher tax. " Not to mention record numbers of farms closing down. | |||
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"Not to mention record numbers of farms closing down." I think we talked about this a while back. It turned out the news story wasn't about farms closing down but "agricultural businesses" and even so the number of people employed in agriculture is actually increasing. | |||
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"Seems to me the government are out of ideas how to stimulate the economy. If they ever had any. Debt is less of a problem if you have income. Those 1.5 million homes not getting built, car manufacturing at 72 year low, more businesses closing than opening. Commercial property listings on rightmove increasing as everyone wants out. All we are getting is more regulation and higher tax. Do you have any policy suggestions that would stimulate the economy?" Growth in the economy takes place when companies get bigger. Sounds obvious but a lot of our policies are aimed at companies that are already big. If a company is already worth a billion then it takes a lot of effort to grow that by 10% a year. It is much easier to grow a hundred smaller companies by a million to make that same £100m growth. We need to pivot our focus to smaller companies and stop pandering to the needs/lobbying of the larger companies. We need to reward risk taking and make it easier to start up (and shut down if they aren’t working) smaller companies. We need to push a much greater focus on the regions outside of London. London is big enough to look after itself but it gets almost all the economic attention. Focus efforts on growing smaller companies in the regions. Focus infrastructure changes out in the regions and stop making everything have to come back to London. Basically we need to shut down the Treasury and restart it outside of London - that alone would probably have a huge impact. Lean into things like climate change technology. The biggest opportunities for growth take place when industrial bases need to change - things like climate change offer a huge potential for regeneration. | |||
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"Not to mention record numbers of farms closing down. I think we talked about this a while back. It turned out the news story wasn't about farms closing down but "agricultural businesses" and even so the number of people employed in agriculture is actually increasing. " This from the Telegraph yesterday: “A total of 6,365 agriculture, forestry and fishing businesses have closed over the past year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS), the highest since quarterly data was first published in 2017. The majority of these closures took place during the first six months of the year after Ms Reeves, the Chancellor, announced in October that she would cut the amount of inheritance tax relief available to family farms. Just 3,190 businesses in the sector have been set up over the same period. It leaves a net loss of 3,175, indicating the number of farms is shrinking at the fastest pace on record”. | |||
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"This from the Telegraph yesterday: “A total of 6,365 agriculture, forestry and fishing businesses have closed over the past year, according to the Office for National Statistics (ONS), the highest since quarterly data was first published in 2017. The majority of these closures took place during the first six months of the year after Ms Reeves, the Chancellor, announced in October that she would cut the amount of inheritance tax relief available to family farms. Just 3,190 businesses in the sector have been set up over the same period. It leaves a net loss of 3,175, indicating the number of farms is shrinking at the fastest pace on record." Although the Telegraph's spin is that it's farms closing that isn't what the ONS data actually says. The data is on "agriculture, forestry and fishing businesses" not "farms". On the employment numbers I managed to track down my source. Which was a farmingUK article from May 2025. "As a result, only 4,334 net new jobs were created in Q1 2025, a dramatic fall from 110,242 in the same period eight years ago." So although the sector is indeed struggling, the net number of jobs actually increased by 4,334 in the first quater of this year. I totally accept that agricultural business is suffering and there may indeed be actual farm closures but these figures aren't telling us how many farms have closed. | |||
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"English towns and cities have disappeared since 2010, according to CPRE, the countryside charity." Which towns and cities? I'm not saying that UK agriculture is thriving. But I try to use sensible language. And on environmental diveristy have you looked at most farm fields? Grain, meat and dairy production requires the reduction of biodiversity in order to raise efficiency. AFAIK there are more species in the average suburban back garden than in some farmer's fields. | |||
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"English towns and cities have disappeared since 2010, according to CPRE, the countryside charity. Which towns and cities? I'm not saying that UK agriculture is thriving. But I try to use sensible language. And on environmental diveristy have you looked at most farm fields? Grain, meat and dairy production requires the reduction of biodiversity in order to raise efficiency. AFAIK there are more species in the average suburban back garden than in some farmer's fields. " Where to start, Greenpeace claims 71% of arable production is to feed cattle for human consumption. They also claim 80% of global deforestation is a result of agricultural production. Monoculture degrades soil, permaculture arguably suitable for small organic growers. Of the £225bn food sold in the uk annually, only 8% goes to farmers. (Soil 2025. A good read if your interested in growing) | |||
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"Hey, if things continue this way we could end up with the economic miracle that was Thatcherism when inflation was 17%, unemployment 11% and interest rates 16%. Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. " really? the 11% rate of unemployment in 1993 was labour's legacy? 🤡 | |||
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"Hey, if things continue this way we could end up with the economic miracle that was Thatcherism when inflation was 17%, unemployment 11% and interest rates 16%. Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. really? the 11% rate of unemployment in 1993 was labour's legacy? 🤡" If you understand the mess the country was in under the labour government, the sick man of Europe, there were always going to be issues off the back of the fixes that needed to happen. She turned the economy around and laid the foundations for Blair. | |||
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"The reality in front of us is that Britain borrowed £148bn last year and £105bn or almost three-quarters of that increase in our national debt went on interest payments on debt previously incurred. £78 billion more than forecast. The UK's public finances resemble a Ponzi scheme. When challenged about the state of our public finances, Reeves and Keir Starmer cite crowd-pleasing nonsense about “school breakfast clubs” and “world class public services”. As if it’s fine to drive the UK into bankruptcy, provoking a full-on bail-out and all the resulting financial and economic chaos because the money is being spent under virtue-signalling headings ! In short we are fucked. Even if we had elected a genuinely strong government last year with a genius Chancellor we would have been up against it. We have elected muppets who I wouldn't trust to run a corner shop. " Feeding underprivileged children is "crowd pleasing nonsense". Unbelievable! | |||
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"Hey, if things continue this way we could end up with the economic miracle that was Thatcherism when inflation was 17%, unemployment 11% and interest rates 16%. Those figures were Labour’s legacy. Thatcher cleaned up the mess with tough decisions and laid the groundwork for 15+ years of uninterrupted growth. really? the 11% rate of unemployment in 1993 was labour's legacy? 🤡 If you understand the mess the country was in under the labour government, the sick man of Europe, there were always going to be issues off the back of the fixes that needed to happen. She turned the economy around and laid the foundations for Blair. " Absolute nonsense. | |||
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