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"The way the public sector wastes money £25 million for “cross-pavement gullies” should do a few streets. Fantasy land. EV’s in theory could be suitable for two car families who don’t travel very far in one of them and where the second car is petrol but even then they stlll have the same problems: They are way more expensive to buy and the depreciation is awful - presumably the government thinks most private buyers will buy them on Finance - great news for the finance companies and manufacturers who can keep making expensive cars The batteries don’t last so people will have to replace the cars more frequently - again pushing people to use Finance rather than buy outright The ranges are crap and misleading - the figures given out by manufacturers are tantamount to legalised lying. If petrol cars did 30% less than the claimed range governments would have clamped down on them years ago. The Charging infrastructure doesn’t exist and there is no reason to think it ever will exist. Forcing people to buy substandard products at a higher price by banning cheaper and better alternatives has got to be the most epic act of economic self harm ever. The same goes for heat pumps. " Saved me a lot of typing with that one. 
I would just add that when VW (among others) got caught massaging their MPG figures they were crucified for it.
The same (and other) manufacturers massaging (nay blatant lying about) the range on EV's seems to be acceptable. | |||
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"The way the public sector wastes money £25 million for “cross-pavement gullies” should do a few streets. Fantasy land. EV’s in theory could be suitable for two car families who don’t travel very far in one of them and where the second car is petrol but even then they stlll have the same problems: They are way more expensive to buy and the depreciation is awful - presumably the government thinks most private buyers will buy them on Finance - great news for the finance companies and manufacturers who can keep making expensive cars The batteries don’t last so people will have to replace the cars more frequently - again pushing people to use Finance rather than buy outright The ranges are crap and misleading - the figures given out by manufacturers are tantamount to legalised lying. If petrol cars did 30% less than the claimed range governments would have clamped down on them years ago. The Charging infrastructure doesn’t exist and there is no reason to think it ever will exist. Forcing people to buy substandard products at a higher price by banning cheaper and better alternatives has got to be the most epic act of economic self harm ever. The same goes for heat pumps." Couldn’t agree more. Also most modern cars are fairly clean now. The first year my diesel went for its MOT the tester said he thought the machine was broken because the readings were so close to zero. Some middle ground would help. If they wanna cut emissions, ban cars above 2.0l initially and see what happens. Sadiq Kahn will be doing his utmost to stop the ban, the ULEZ zone will eventually become irrelevant. How’s he gonna steal from people then? And lorry’s will still be diesel. They create nearly 20% of the emissions from 6% of the miles. So three times more polluting than cars but not being banned. It’s clearly got very little to do with pollution | |||
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"You get a 3 to 7 year warranty on petrol or diesel engine. You get a 10 year warranty on an electric car." A ten year warranty that in most (if not all) cases doesn't include the batteries. Should the engine fail on a ICE car it can be repaired, batteries can't. Even a full engine replacement on an ICE car is around one third of the cost of new batteries for an EV. EV battery life is +/- 10 years. My 20 year old Mercedes diesel is still going strong at 280,000 kms. | |||
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"You get a 3 to 7 year warranty on petrol or diesel engine. You get a 10 year warranty on an electric car." Because there’s a lot less to go wrong with them. And if you read the small print you’ll see what’s excluded. Engine stuff is very expensive to repair, but most engines won’t have issues in the first 8-10 years, hence a 5-7 year warranty. Electrical issues are quite rare on cars now, apart from switches and buttons which are cheap to fix. | |||
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"the news about cross pavement gullies is sensible, some councils allow them others do not, the government needs to step in & get everyone on the same page " Yes, but what about who has the right to park in front of your home. Living in a building of four converted flats who has preference to park in the one street bay outside with the charger/gully. 429,000 converted flats in London alone. | |||
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"the news about cross pavement gullies is sensible, some councils allow them others do not, the government needs to step in & get everyone on the same page " With or without these gullies does anyone seriously think this is going to work? In lawless Britain cable cutting will become a new national pastime. Besides just think of all the injury claims from people "tripping" on that small bit of cable between the gully and the car. I suppose it would boost the economy though. Think of all the extra staff "Injury Lawyers For You" would need.  | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. " For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? " This view is you applying what we have today with what you expect in the future. If you forget vehicle usage and ownership as I need it to go here, and my partner need to there = 2 cars, that is a start. When vehicles are fully autonomous, on an autonomous network, you will hire a vehicle for the trip you want to make. It will be outside your door within minutes to take you wherever you need to go. You will not need to worry about charging it, insuring it, and all the other things that bog down vehicle ownership today. The point about you driving to work to get your van, that wouldn't happen, the van would come and get you for work every morning. The point about travelling 200 + miles to family and another 400+ for other family members. If it is because those family members can't drive, or don't have a car and that is why they don't come to you, they can in an autonomous vehicle, straight to your door dropped off and will come back to pick them up later. The future is coming, but not fast enough if our government is willing to throw £700million on aged tech. | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? This view is you applying what we have today with what you expect in the future. If you forget vehicle usage and ownership as I need it to go here, and my partner need to there = 2 cars, that is a start. When vehicles are fully autonomous, on an autonomous network, you will hire a vehicle for the trip you want to make. It will be outside your door within minutes to take you wherever you need to go. You will not need to worry about charging it, insuring it, and all the other things that bog down vehicle ownership today. The point about you driving to work to get your van, that wouldn't happen, the van would come and get you for work every morning. The point about travelling 200 + miles to family and another 400+ for other family members. If it is because those family members can't drive, or don't have a car and that is why they don't come to you, they can in an autonomous vehicle, straight to your door dropped off and will come back to pick them up later. The future is coming, but not fast enough if our government is willing to throw £700million on aged tech. " We travel to them because it’s just me and my partner. For one family it would be 4 kids plus parents, for the other it’s a baby under 1yo plus parents. And all the toys etc are at their houses, we have very little here, certainly no PlayStations lol. It’s just easier. You put a slant on it that i hadn’t considered so thank you for that, every day is a school day. But I think you’re “arriving within minutes” is pie in the sky outside of big towns and cities. I only ever tried to use uber eats once. We waited about 90 mins before I gave up and went to fetch the food myself. There is no taxi service within 10 miles, so if I wanted a taxi to take me to a supermarket for example, the driver has to do a 10 mile trip for no money twice. You will no doubt argue that in your system that wouldn’t matter because there is no driver to pay. But I’ll have to pay the operator to hold the vehicle for twice as long as if I did the drive myself. And in an area when there won’t be any competition cos it’s not financially viable, I’ll have to pay whatever they ask. Big city thinking does not work in rural communities. I used to deliver cars for a living. I’ve dropped vehicles off in locations where the bus runs once a day. | |||
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"You get a 3 to 7 year warranty on petrol or diesel engine. You get a 10 year warranty on an electric car." Not on consumables like batteries? | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? This view is you applying what we have today with what you expect in the future. If you forget vehicle usage and ownership as I need it to go here, and my partner need to there = 2 cars, that is a start. When vehicles are fully autonomous, on an autonomous network, you will hire a vehicle for the trip you want to make. It will be outside your door within minutes to take you wherever you need to go. You will not need to worry about charging it, insuring it, and all the other things that bog down vehicle ownership today. The point about you driving to work to get your van, that wouldn't happen, the van would come and get you for work every morning. The point about travelling 200 + miles to family and another 400+ for other family members. If it is because those family members can't drive, or don't have a car and that is why they don't come to you, they can in an autonomous vehicle, straight to your door dropped off and will come back to pick them up later. The future is coming, but not fast enough if our government is willing to throw £700million on aged tech. We travel to them because it’s just me and my partner. For one family it would be 4 kids plus parents, for the other it’s a baby under 1yo plus parents. And all the toys etc are at their houses, we have very little here, certainly no PlayStations lol. It’s just easier. You put a slant on it that i hadn’t considered so thank you for that, every day is a school day. But I think you’re “arriving within minutes” is pie in the sky outside of big towns and cities. I only ever tried to use uber eats once. We waited about 90 mins before I gave up and went to fetch the food myself. There is no taxi service within 10 miles, so if I wanted a taxi to take me to a supermarket for example, the driver has to do a 10 mile trip for no money twice. You will no doubt argue that in your system that wouldn’t matter because there is no driver to pay. But I’ll have to pay the operator to hold the vehicle for twice as long as if I did the drive myself. And in an area when there won’t be any competition cos it’s not financially viable, I’ll have to pay whatever they ask. Big city thinking does not work in rural communities. I used to deliver cars for a living. I’ve dropped vehicles off in locations where the bus runs once a day. " You raise valid points, and this is why the 700million should be pointed towards the future. We need to ensure we get tit right, cities will be profitable for autonomous vehicle companies and they will need to also offer the same levels of service for urban areas or not be granted a license. Once we get people out of cars, the network of roads can be managed more effectively, making travel times quicker. There does't need to be a side of the road as an example. On a motorway you can split the 6 - 8 lanes however you want them to be, 2 north 4 south, 1 south, 7 north. Speed of travel is also something that can increase, allowing cars to move a faster speeds on controlled networks, traffic lights outside of pedestrian crossings will not be needed, the cars can and will automate through the junction at speed. If you put all this together, you can imagine you would like a trip to Scotland, 450 miles away. You order the vehicle for the family and cases, it is going to pick up someone else along the way. You travel uninterrupted at an average speed of 100mph. In the vehicle you will be watching tv, eating a little like being on your own personal train that takes you door to door. I will leave it there as I've gone on! | |||
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" On a motorway you can split the 6 - 8 lanes however you want them to be, 2 north 4 south, 1 south, 7 north. Speed of travel is also something that can increase, allowing cars to move a faster speeds on controlled networks, traffic lights outside of pedestrian crossings will not be needed, the cars can and will automate through the junction at speed. " Just want to pick up on those two points. Ripping up the central reservation barriers and tarmac over them to allow for multi lane use would probably cost a trillion quid. But there’s a lot of roads that would benefit from tidal flow management of lanes so it’s a good idea in principle. I’m not sure about doing away with traffic lights and cars wizzing through junctions at speed. At many junctions you can’t see what’s around the corner until you’re passing the traffic light. If that turns about to be an automated 30 ton truck doing 50mph then people are gonna die. I know it wouldn’t be implemented at junctions where that’s possible, but for a long time there would be a mixture of automated and human driven vehicles on the road. Unless you’re gonna make driving a car illegal? | |||
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"I can't help but thinking they are flogging a dead horse with electric cars . It seems driven by tax breaks on company cars rather than individuals buying them with uncertainty battery life . Clearly there are some private sales " “Some” private sales…. Try loads! things to bear in mind 1) biggest new selling car in the Uk.. Tesla model Y 2) electric cars now makes up around 25-30% of all new cars sold 3) on auto trader alone, there has been around a 150% on people buying used electric cars Used electric cars…. Especially the ones that were bought as tax breaks and they are now being changed (so about 3 years old ish) are really good value at the moment because they have done the biggest part of their depreciation… if I can get a 3-4 year old model why which originally was 55k at the time, for 20k now…. And you still now that on major parts and batteries it was 8yr, 120000 miles! I don’t see why you wouldn’t! There are some things the government can do to help… you don’t need to do it from home! Changing points electricity has the 20% vat charge on it, whereas home electricity has a 5% vat charge, do that would be a simple efficient change I’ll write more down in a bit | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? " Okay… this makes for an interesting experiment Let’s take example no.1 …. 1 day… 225 round trip…… Let’s say a petrol car does 50mph… fair Petrol at the moment… 133ish… let’s be generous and say 130p per litre… fair I am going to get a Tesla model y in the next few months (my Prius is about 15 yrs old now… been brilliant!) Claimed mileage epa is 337 miles Carwow tested it in there when will it actually run out videos.. they got 300! The model Y has a 75 kw useable battery My local tesla supercharger 4 miles down the road off peak charges 0.23p per kw/h So.. petrol.. at 50miles per gallon, since there are about 4 litres to the gallon…. You would need 4.5 gallons… so 4.5 * 4 * 1.30…. That is £29.25 pounds So…. Model y… let’s so I charge it from 10% to 90% …. 80% of a 75kw battery is 60kw, 80% of 300 miles is 240 miles 60kw * 0.23 kw/h…… that is £13.80 pounds | |||
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" On a motorway you can split the 6 - 8 lanes however you want them to be, 2 north 4 south, 1 south, 7 north. Speed of travel is also something that can increase, allowing cars to move a faster speeds on controlled networks, traffic lights outside of pedestrian crossings will not be needed, the cars can and will automate through the junction at speed. Just want to pick up on those two points. Ripping up the central reservation barriers and tarmac over them to allow for multi lane use would probably cost a trillion quid. But there’s a lot of roads that would benefit from tidal flow management of lanes so it’s a good idea in principle. I’m not sure about doing away with traffic lights and cars wizzing through junctions at speed. At many junctions you can’t see what’s around the corner until you’re passing the traffic light. If that turns about to be an automated 30 ton truck doing 50mph then people are gonna die. I know it wouldn’t be implemented at junctions where that’s possible, but for a long time there would be a mixture of automated and human driven vehicles on the road. Unless you’re gonna make driving a car illegal? " That is the plan. Driving tests will be scrapped at some point, I would also expect the upper age of driving will also be lowered, as an example at 60. I would also expect ICE and early low functional EV's to be scrapped. This will strip away quite quickly the manually driven cars. The point of cars whizzing around and not being able to see around corners, that is a human problem. With cars linked to 1 protocol, approaching a junction will be managed by the system prioritising each car as it enters the junction. The system will see all vehicles approaching and will slot each car into their respective speeds and distances. I'm not sure if you have ever seen automation in Parcel logistics or manufacturing? They use the same type of reasoning with their tech to move hundreds of thousands of items around the network infrastructure at speed arriving at the right destination without colliding with other parcels on the system. | |||
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"Once a year we drive from Germany to Spain and back. Mercedes C 220 diesel estate. I can fill up in Luxembourg and then get all the way down to the Spanish border (970kms ish) without buying any extortionate French diesel and can do the same from Spain going back. To be fair we do have one overnight stop but I would still need at least another 2 charging stops, more likely 3 because we do it in the summer and I need the A/C. From what I've seen, the queues for charging at French motorway services are horrendous. Between waiting and charging would take hours. So no thanks. I'll stick with my diesel." This is a superb example of how this tech will outperform existing tech. The journey you take will become quicker on a fully autonomous network, you will also be able to sit back and relax, even sleep if you wish during the journey. The example you are providing now is based on current tech and not future in terms of charging. We can expect in the next 10 years many more vehicles will be built with battery swap technology, allowing the vehicle to drive into the change area, battery swapped and on its way in 5 minutes or less, without you doing a thing. So your journey would compare far more favourably to the new technology than the old. | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? " With autonomous vehicles the job you describe above would not exist. The van would do the route by itself. | |||
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"Once a year we drive from Germany to Spain and back. Mercedes C 220 diesel estate. I can fill up in Luxembourg and then get all the way down to the Spanish border (970kms ish) without buying any extortionate French diesel and can do the same from Spain going back. To be fair we do have one overnight stop but I would still need at least another 2 charging stops, more likely 3 because we do it in the summer and I need the A/C. From what I've seen, the queues for charging at French motorway services are horrendous. Between waiting and charging would take hours. So no thanks. I'll stick with my diesel. This is a superb example of how this tech will outperform existing tech. The journey you take will become quicker on a fully autonomous network, you will also be able to sit back and relax, even sleep if you wish during the journey. The example you are providing now is based on current tech and not future in terms of charging. We can expect in the next 10 years many more vehicles will be built with battery swap technology, allowing the vehicle to drive into the change area, battery swapped and on its way in 5 minutes or less, without you doing a thing. So your journey would compare far more favourably to the new technology than the old. " I was advocating battery swap on here years ago. To me it was the only logical way. You buy the car but rent the battery's. A bit like we do here in Spain with gas bottles. It would solve the charging time problem and take away the fear of having to buy new ones at around 10 years old. Only drawback would be how many battery packs a busy service station would have to stock. Maybe it will happen one day it but I think it's a long way into the future. Maybe EV's will be obsolete by then. | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? With autonomous vehicles the job you describe above would not exist. The van would do the route by itself." I believe that one would, purely because of the logistics. I delivered a box containing patient records and took another box away, very often to upstairs offices where the staff wouldn’t even bring the box downstairs. But I agree with you, autonomous vehicles could cost a million jobs and cost the treasury in excess of £20 billion. That’s 3% on the basic rate of income tax for everyone who still has a job. | |||
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"Why do I feel the government are always 2 steps behind where they need to be! What is the point of pouring money into schemes that are very difficult to predict the ROI on dated tech... In my opinion they should be looking forward and working towards getting the country there quicker, not pouring money into EV charging tech that will be obsolete in no time at all. They also need to get a move on with red tape that is holding up the use of autonomous driving in the UK. If we encourage and develop our infrastructure to be autonomous driving mode friendly, drive ways and charging no longer cause the problems they are trying to resolve today. Get to fully automated cars and infrastructure and the idea of owning a car will become a distant memory very quickly, and our streets and roads wont be littered with vehicles doing nothing for 90% of the day. For cities and larger towns perhaps. But not everyone lives in London, Birmingham or Manchester. And that’s just the daily commute. The logistics of sharing a vehicle between 2 households would be a nightmare. I’ve recently been made redundant but I’ll assume for the moment I’m still doing that job. A typical month for me would be…. 22 days of me driving to my depot, swap to a company van, drive to Sussex and do 12- 18 swaps (drop a box and collect one), then do the reverse. 1 day of driving 225 miles round trip to visit family 1 days of 400 miles round trip to different family 1 day traveling to a sporting event that good be 60 miles round trip or 600 miles, or 300 miles. 4 days of 20 mile round trip to the nearest supermarket None of that is helped by AI driving for me, I’d still need to be in the vehicle. And whilst the vehicle will be parked up and not move while I’m at work, so could theoretically be used by AI to move other people around, what if it breaks down and I can’t get home later? With autonomous vehicles the job you describe above would not exist. The van would do the route by itself. I believe that one would, purely because of the logistics. I delivered a box containing patient records and took another box away, very often to upstairs offices where the staff wouldn’t even bring the box downstairs. But I agree with you, autonomous vehicles could cost a million jobs and cost the treasury in excess of £20 billion. That’s 3% on the basic rate of income tax for everyone who still has a job. " That is only correct (I haven't done the maths, I trust your working out) if you apply this change to a hard stop overnight. That will not happen, and other roles will be provided due to new needs or people who no longer have the option to drive and have never driven will take other routes into employment. | |||
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"If you have to offer incentives to sell a product .....however you dress it up...the product is either floored or not what the bulk of people want ... Electric no matter how you dress it up will not be for everyone.... As for on street charging ...picture this ....terrace houses on a street,cars that have grown beyond the space occupied by the houses,you have a charging point,you think it's your domain suddenly,but you come home to find someone else is in what you deem to be your spot,worse still it's that horrendous ICE car from a neighbour further down ....it all kicks off ...Streets are already a hot bed for parking issues,this will add to it ... What an utter waste of tax payers money ...if you want electric fine,but without a drive or access to charging stations it's a no brainer ... This argument will rage for some time,but the cost of charging will not come down at public points and at some stage the home charging will cost much the same ....you'll then be stuffed by punitive taxes after being sold a dream that becomes a nightmare....then again with the current chancellor's economic skill set you may not ! " To get you hooked the first one is always free.  | |||
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"Inkjet printer for £25 but the cartridges are £60 😁 Nearly 50% of the cost of petrol and diesel is tax compared to 20% for electricity. The duty on petrol and diesel earns the treasury a tad under £25 billion and the vat on it earns them another £10 billion roughly. So basically they are handing out money to get you to stop sending them money? That makes perfect sense 🤣 Where are they going to replace that?As an example, to generate £35 billion from income tax, they would need to raise the basic rate by 5% or the higher rate by 22% VAT from electricity usage is around £45 billion will total sales being around £235 billion. So to get the revenue from there would mean a 15% levy on electricity bills. I thought this green electricity was meant to be cheaper?" Equivalent to £853 lost revenue per vehicle currently on the road Indeed how will that be replaced. | |||
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"The way the public sector wastes money £25 million for “cross-pavement gullies” should do a few streets. Fantasy land. " They may not work on all streets, but they may work on quieter ones, for example I live in a cul-de-sac, so it would be interesting for us.. ( about five or six of my neighbours are looking at going electric.. we have asked the council about pop up pavement chargers and lamp post charging to see what the options are going to be) "EV’s in theory could be suitable for two car families who don’t travel very far in one of them and where the second car is petrol but even then they stlll have the same problems:" Nice of you to see the market… most new EVs now get a good 250-300 miles between charges, so most people won’t see any difference between charging points and going to a petrol station "They are way more expensive to buy and the depreciation is awful - presumably the government thinks most private buyers will buy them on Finance - great news for the finance companies and manufacturers who can keep making expensive cars" The depreciation on expensive EV is awful, that we can agree on… but here is a little secret I’ll let you into.. the depreciation on an expensive ICE car is also awful!!! That’s why I would suggest to people look at the 2nd hand EV market… there are absolute bargains to be had! The thing I am interested to see is that the £3750 EV grant stops at a car worth under 37000…. We know the expensive cat tax rate starts at 40000 There are a few car makers who if they lowered the price by a thousand or 2.. they would be eligible for the further discount so I wonder if those prices will shift…for example, your Kia EV3, your Tesla model 3, Skoda enyac, Volvo xc30 ect A long range MG4 with the discount would be close to 25000 " The batteries don’t last so people will have to replace the cars more frequently - again pushing people to use Finance rather than buy outright The ranges are crap and misleading - the figures given out by manufacturers are tantamount to legalised lying. If petrol cars did 30% less than the claimed range governments would have clamped down on them years ago." Kia and Hyundai give 7 years 100 miles on their batteries, tesla gives 8 years 120000 miles on theirs! They tested a model s with 250000 miles on it to see how much battery power it has lost during that time.. the answer was 10% " The Charging infrastructure doesn’t exist and there is no reason to think it ever will exist. " Out of interest do you know how many public charges there are in the uk? According to google and chat gpt, as of April 2025, just over 75,000 That’s a lot of “never exist” " Forcing people to buy substandard products at a higher price by banning cheaper and better alternatives has got to be the most epic act of economic self harm ever. The same goes for heat pumps. " I’ll leave that last paragraph……. Anyway… there are things that could be looked at… More charging sites are always going to help! The inconsistency of EV charging pricing.. how comes tesla can do it miles cheaper than most? The weird fact that a business electricity is charged at 20%, but home electricity is charged at 5%… bring down charging point vat to the same level, makes it cheaper | |||
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"I keep reading the post below… and there is so much misinformation in it I was thinking where on earth do I start!! Then I thought breaking it down by paragraph would be pedantic.. but the most effective and efficient way of me stop screaming no no no or wrong wrong wrong! The way the public sector wastes money £25 million for “cross-pavement gullies” should do a few streets. Fantasy land. They may not work on all streets, but they may work on quieter ones, for example I live in a cul-de-sac, so it would be interesting for us.. ( about five or six of my neighbours are looking at going electric.. we have asked the council about pop up pavement chargers and lamp post charging to see what the options are going to be) EV’s in theory could be suitable for two car families who don’t travel very far in one of them and where the second car is petrol but even then they stlll have the same problems: Nice of you to see the market… most new EVs now get a good 250-300 miles between charges, so most people won’t see any difference between charging points and going to a petrol station They are way more expensive to buy and the depreciation is awful - presumably the government thinks most private buyers will buy them on Finance - great news for the finance companies and manufacturers who can keep making expensive cars The depreciation on expensive EV is awful, that we can agree on… but here is a little secret I’ll let you into.. the depreciation on an expensive ICE car is also awful!!! That’s why I would suggest to people look at the 2nd hand EV market… there are absolute bargains to be had! The thing I am interested to see is that the £3750 EV grant stops at a car worth under 37000…. We know the expensive cat tax rate starts at 40000 There are a few car makers who if they lowered the price by a thousand or 2.. they would be eligible for the further discount so I wonder if those prices will shift…for example, your Kia EV3, your Tesla model 3, Skoda enyac, Volvo xc30 ect A long range MG4 with the discount would be close to 25000 The batteries don’t last so people will have to replace the cars more frequently - again pushing people to use Finance rather than buy outright The ranges are crap and misleading - the figures given out by manufacturers are tantamount to legalised lying. If petrol cars did 30% less than the claimed range governments would have clamped down on them years ago. Kia and Hyundai give 7 years 100 miles on their batteries, tesla gives 8 years 120000 miles on theirs! They tested a model s with 250000 miles on it to see how much battery power it has lost during that time.. the answer was 10% The Charging infrastructure doesn’t exist and there is no reason to think it ever will exist. Out of interest do you know how many public charges there are in the uk? According to google and chat gpt, as of April 2025, just over 75,000 That’s a lot of “never exist” Forcing people to buy substandard products at a higher price by banning cheaper and better alternatives has got to be the most epic act of economic self harm ever. The same goes for heat pumps. I’ll leave that last paragraph……. Anyway… there are things that could be looked at… More charging sites are always going to help! The inconsistency of EV charging pricing.. how comes tesla can do it miles cheaper than most? The weird fact that a business electricity is charged at 20%, but home electricity is charged at 5%… bring down charging point vat to the same level, makes it cheaper " Good luck with the EVs! I’ll stick with my gas guzzling 4 x 4 thanks. By the time it conks out you’ll be on your fifth EV and will have outspent me hundreds of times over! | |||
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"How long does it take to charge an EV? With any of my cars, it takes about 4 minutes to fill up and pay at the pump, then I'm off again enjoying my life. "If you are charging at home I think it takes about 15 seconds to plug it in on a night and about the same time to unplug it on a morning and you don't ever need to drive to a petrol station. | |||
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"How long does it take to charge an EV? With any of my cars, it takes about 4 minutes to fill up and pay at the pump, then I'm off again enjoying my life.
If you are charging at home I think it takes about 15 seconds to plug it in on a night and about the same time to unplug it on a morning and you don't ever need to drive to a petrol station."So I could only drive for the car's range - 200-250 miles or so, then I'd have to go somewhere for the night to charge it? That seems a little silly for my regular golf trips to Scotland from the New Forest. I can drive it in about 9 hours with a couple of breaks and fuel fills, and I don't have to stop overnight in a grotty motorway hotel "oop North". | |||
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"I just have no interest in them after I was told that fitting charging points where I wanted them at home would cost me about £15k "That's pretty crazy, I assume it's a long way from your mains? | |||
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"I just have no interest in them after I was told that fitting charging points where I wanted them at home would cost me about £15k
That's pretty crazy, I assume it's a long way from your mains?
"I have no idea, I just got a quote. I wanted one outside the front of my house, one in the car port and one each in two garages which are quite separate from each other. These are all places I park at home depending on what I'm doing. I certainly don't want unsightly cables lying around so the quote included burying them etc. I can currently park any of my petrol vehicles anywhere I want/need to. | |||
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"I have no idea" That sums it up nicely. | |||
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"I have no idea That sums it up nicely." What, that they ain’t an electrical engineer? | |||
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"I'm so glad someone highlighted the misinformation on here! The vast majority of EVs come with warranties on their batteries of 8-10 years and 100k miles. Which includes replacement if it drops below 80% of capacity during that time. This is longer than on the cars themselves. There are many irritating things about EV charging and infrastructure but at least stop lying. Charging time depends completely on how much you need and how big the battery is but most modern EVs charge to 80% in about 30 mins. 15 mins would often get you an extra 100 miles in the tank. You can pick up very good 3-5y old EVs for less than £10k. Most people do not drive anywhere near the limit of their range in a day. Most now easily exceed 200 miles, some more than 400. I think we often over estimate how many miles somewhere is! London to Birmingham and back is about 250 miles. Or you could say that you can easily get 4-5 hours of driving between charges. And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box. If you drive hundreds of miles a day and don't stop back at home in that time, yeh maybe now isnt the right time for you to get an EV - but the reality is they are better options for at least half the population and probably a lot more. " “And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box”. So what’s the range drop if you are doing 80mph in winter with a fully loaded car with a roof box? Hysterical seeing the motorways full of EV’s in the slow lane doing 55. | |||
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"I'm so glad someone highlighted the misinformation on here! The vast majority of EVs come with warranties on their batteries of 8-10 years and 100k miles. Which includes replacement if it drops below 80% of capacity during that time. This is longer than on the cars themselves. There are many irritating things about EV charging and infrastructure but at least stop lying. Charging time depends completely on how much you need and how big the battery is but most modern EVs charge to 80% in about 30 mins. 15 mins would often get you an extra 100 miles in the tank. You can pick up very good 3-5y old EVs for less than £10k. Most people do not drive anywhere near the limit of their range in a day. Most now easily exceed 200 miles, some more than 400. I think we often over estimate how many miles somewhere is! London to Birmingham and back is about 250 miles. Or you could say that you can easily get 4-5 hours of driving between charges. And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box. If you drive hundreds of miles a day and don't stop back at home in that time, yeh maybe now isnt the right time for you to get an EV - but the reality is they are better options for at least half the population and probably a lot more. “And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box”. So what’s the range drop if you are doing 80mph in winter with a fully loaded car with a roof box? Hysterical seeing the motorways full of EV’s in the slow lane doing 55. " You probably think you are making a point… but everything you just mentioned would reduce the mpg you would get in the “gas guzzling 4x4” you boasted about earlier  | |||
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"I'm so glad someone highlighted the misinformation on here! The vast majority of EVs come with warranties on their batteries of 8-10 years and 100k miles. Which includes replacement if it drops below 80% of capacity during that time. This is longer than on the cars themselves. There are many irritating things about EV charging and infrastructure but at least stop lying. Charging time depends completely on how much you need and how big the battery is but most modern EVs charge to 80% in about 30 mins. 15 mins would often get you an extra 100 miles in the tank. You can pick up very good 3-5y old EVs for less than £10k. Most people do not drive anywhere near the limit of their range in a day. Most now easily exceed 200 miles, some more than 400. I think we often over estimate how many miles somewhere is! London to Birmingham and back is about 250 miles. Or you could say that you can easily get 4-5 hours of driving between charges. And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box. If you drive hundreds of miles a day and don't stop back at home in that time, yeh maybe now isnt the right time for you to get an EV - but the reality is they are better options for at least half the population and probably a lot more. “And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box”. So what’s the range drop if you are doing 80mph in winter with a fully loaded car with a roof box? Hysterical seeing the motorways full of EV’s in the slow lane doing 55. You probably think you are making a point… but everything you just mentioned would reduce the mpg you would get in the “gas guzzling 4x4” you boasted about earlier "I agree. But putting the lights on, indicating, turning the radio on, turning the wipers on, charging your phone and the kids iPad don’t affect the range of a gas guzzling 4x4. And you can go from 20 miles range to 600 miles range in that 4x4 in less than 5 mins. How long does it take to do that in an EV? They are getting better at range and charging times, but an EV does not suit everyone. I don’t get why some people can’t accept that. 🤷 In a former job I drove an average of 100,000 miles a year. I could be driving an 800 mile round trip in a day sometimes. We had 3 drivers booked to deliver electric vans, only the little ones, from Bedford to Liverpool. It took them 24 hours. I could probably walk it in that time. I could definitely cycle it. | |||
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"I'm so glad someone highlighted the misinformation on here! The vast majority of EVs come with warranties on their batteries of 8-10 years and 100k miles. Which includes replacement if it drops below 80% of capacity during that time. This is longer than on the cars themselves. There are many irritating things about EV charging and infrastructure but at least stop lying. Charging time depends completely on how much you need and how big the battery is but most modern EVs charge to 80% in about 30 mins. 15 mins would often get you an extra 100 miles in the tank. You can pick up very good 3-5y old EVs for less than £10k. Most people do not drive anywhere near the limit of their range in a day. Most now easily exceed 200 miles, some more than 400. I think we often over estimate how many miles somewhere is! London to Birmingham and back is about 250 miles. Or you could say that you can easily get 4-5 hours of driving between charges. And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box. If you drive hundreds of miles a day and don't stop back at home in that time, yeh maybe now isnt the right time for you to get an EV - but the reality is they are better options for at least half the population and probably a lot more. “And yes the range is not as good as the wltp figures, probably around 10% less except if you're driving over 70mph, or in winter when you'd get maybe even 25% less, or if you fully load the car and have a roof box”. So what’s the range drop if you are doing 80mph in winter with a fully loaded car with a roof box? Hysterical seeing the motorways full of EV’s in the slow lane doing 55. You probably think you are making a point… but everything you just mentioned would reduce the mpg you would get in the “gas guzzling 4x4” you boasted about earlier "I don’t “think” I’m making a point. Of course if my 4 x 4 is running low in petrol I carry on doing 80 and pull off at the next garage which takes me ten minutes to refuel and be on my way again for another 600 miles. Only once in forty years of driving can I recall the need to drive slowly and switch off my aircon to preserve fuel. And that was in the mountains in Spain. Clearly with EV’s it’s a common occurrence. With an EV it simply isn’t possible to get another 600 miles of range in 5 - 10 minutes. That’s obvious. The problem is that the stupid government (of all hues) in its usual pig ignorant way has decided to interfere in the car market and has basically screwed it up. I totally accept that EV’s would suit some people. Others like me they won’t suit. If your life is in a contained area and you don’t do much then they are probably fine. If your life is over a wider area and you are busy then they aren’t suitable. The problem we have is that a) government interference is screwing up the car market b) when the vehicle restrictions kick in that will screw up the market even more with unknown effects c) none of this anyway is going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate so it’s completely idiotic. But sure, if someone wants to buy an EV I support their right to do so. At the moment the only people who buy EV’s are: 1. Company car drivers 2. State subsidised drivers 3. Rich people 4. Idiots | |||
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"I think everyone accepts that EVs don't suit everyone today, I've said it multiple times in my posts above. What I find irritating generally is that many people seem to claim that they are useless just because they don't suit their particular needs, and worse, start talking absolute bollocks about them so other people think they won't work for them. BYD has already developed the technology to charge 250 miles of range in 5 minutes. Yes that's not helping today but in 5-10 years you can easily see that EVs will be able to handle all driving. The infrastructure will come faster the faster we switch. " I agree that does happen, and I also concede that your posts on the subject are pretty fair. But there’s just as many people saying they are the holy grail and can suit everyone and have no disadvantages compared to ICE. That’s not the case either. I guess there’s always people on both extremes of any discussion | |||
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"I think everyone accepts that EVs don't suit everyone today, I've said it multiple times in my posts above. What I find irritating generally is that many people seem to claim that they are useless just because they don't suit their particular needs, and worse, start talking absolute bollocks about them so other people think they won't work for them. BYD has already developed the technology to charge 250 miles of range in 5 minutes. Yes that's not helping today but in 5-10 years you can easily see that EVs will be able to handle all driving. The infrastructure will come faster the faster we switch. " Sounds like you are just relying on “blind faith” that “something will happen eventually”. “We all need to get on board with Betamax! It’s going to take over the world”! | |||
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"That's true, but the ban on commercial vehicles is not until 2035 and only affects new sales, that means realistically you'd be able to buy and drive used diesel and petrol cars easily into the next 20+ years. If we don't have the infrastructure and suitable EVs for everyone by then I'll eat my hat (I don't have one but will buy one and eat it). Not least because if we don't then they'll just extend out the date of the ban. " You’re right that the 2035 ban only applies to new sales, but I think the used market could collapse rather quickly. We are aligned with the EU on vehicle end of life and scrappage policy, and under those rules, if the cost of repair exceeds the value of the vehicle, it’s scrapped. As the EV transition picks up, residual values on ICE cars will inevitably drop, and parts will become harder to source. Relatively minor repairs like a specialised replacement part, or eventually even a full set of tyres could write a car off, and who would buy something that carries that risk? I would also doubt manufacturers will keep producing spares for too long. Once ICE models are out of production and dealers no longer see profit in maintaining them, they’ll stop supporting them entirely. The aftermarket might fill the gap for a while, but not indefinitely because the cost of the parts will be more expensive than the car, in theory. I guess there will be outliers such as super cars, there are not too many of those though. | |||
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"I’m glad you know the pitfalls of your own argument 😂 You make some valid points, but…. In London what you suggest could work, but not in rural areas. Also what you may not realise is many cabs run 24/7. I used to be private hire driver (not in London) and quite a lot of vehicles had one driver doing the day shift and one doing the night shift. Very often running a 6-8yo diesel Skoda, Safira, VW Sharon etc. literally running it into the ground. These aren’t people who have £40-£50k for an EV and lease purchase depends on mileage. Imagine the cost when you tell them you wanna do 50k miles a year instead of the 6k that’s usually the limit on their very attractive figures. Same for leasing but many leasing companies won’t allow the vehicle to be used for private hire as that affects the value. And why would a cab driver spend £60k on a new EV black cab when you plan to put him out of a job as soon as technology allows? " I knew it
You are applying the here and now to what is going to happen tomorrow. There will be changes to how a driver operates their vehicle, the same way builder changed their working practice now they use battery drills.
When there is a living to be made there will answers. It could end up we need more taxi drivers, which would be a good thing, as most of the people who were against AV's were worried about job losses..
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"I’m glad you know the pitfalls of your own argument 😂 You make some valid points, but…. In London what you suggest could work, but not in rural areas. Also what you may not realise is many cabs run 24/7. I used to be private hire driver (not in London) and quite a lot of vehicles had one driver doing the day shift and one doing the night shift. Very often running a 6-8yo diesel Skoda, Safira, VW Sharon etc. literally running it into the ground. These aren’t people who have £40-£50k for an EV and lease purchase depends on mileage. Imagine the cost when you tell them you wanna do 50k miles a year instead of the 6k that’s usually the limit on their very attractive figures. Same for leasing but many leasing companies won’t allow the vehicle to be used for private hire as that affects the value. And why would a cab driver spend £60k on a new EV black cab when you plan to put him out of a job as soon as technology allows? I knew it
You are applying the here and now to what is going to happen tomorrow. There will be changes to how a driver operates their vehicle, the same way builder changed their working practice now they use battery drills.
When there is a living to be made there will answers. It could end up we need more taxi drivers, which would be a good thing, as most of the people who were against AV's were worried about job losses..
We can always find potential problems, the smart money is on those that can find solutions "But there’s not going to be a living. Someone told me AV is going to replace them all. Who will the black cab drivers sell their lovely new electric vehicles to? Nobody! They will be worthless. And you are insisting a new hypothetical solution is found for a problem that doesn’t exist at the moment, but will be created by the phasing out of ICE cabs. So we need more taxi drivers to invest twice as much money into a business that’s going to be made illegal as soon as the technology allows? Where do I sign up for that 😂 | |||
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"I just have no interest in them after I was told that fitting charging points where I wanted them at home would cost me about £15k" Almost all EVs come with a cable that you can just plug into a normal socket. That will charge your car up overnight unless you do long journeys. There's no need to spend any money on 'charging stations'. | |||
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"I’m glad you know the pitfalls of your own argument 😂 You make some valid points, but…. In London what you suggest could work, but not in rural areas. Also what you may not realise is many cabs run 24/7. I used to be private hire driver (not in London) and quite a lot of vehicles had one driver doing the day shift and one doing the night shift. Very often running a 6-8yo diesel Skoda, Safira, VW Sharon etc. literally running it into the ground. These aren’t people who have £40-£50k for an EV and lease purchase depends on mileage. Imagine the cost when you tell them you wanna do 50k miles a year instead of the 6k that’s usually the limit on their very attractive figures. Same for leasing but many leasing companies won’t allow the vehicle to be used for private hire as that affects the value. And why would a cab driver spend £60k on a new EV black cab when you plan to put him out of a job as soon as technology allows? I knew it
You are applying the here and now to what is going to happen tomorrow. There will be changes to how a driver operates their vehicle, the same way builder changed their working practice now they use battery drills.
When there is a living to be made there will answers. It could end up we need more taxi drivers, which would be a good thing, as most of the people who were against AV's were worried about job losses..
We can always find potential problems, the smart money is on those that can find solutions
But there’s not going to be a living. Someone told me AV is going to replace them all. Who will the black cab drivers sell their lovely new electric vehicles to? Nobody! They will be worthless.
And you are insisting a new hypothetical solution is found for a problem that doesn’t exist at the moment, but will be created by the phasing out of ICE cabs.
So we need more taxi drivers to invest twice as much money into a business that’s going to be made illegal as soon as the technology allows?
Where do I sign up for that 😂"Timelines, it all about the timelines. AV's are not realistically going to be the mainstream mode of transport for a good few years yet, not too many but enough for people to get used to the idea. | |||
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"I’m glad you know the pitfalls of your own argument 😂 You make some valid points, but…. In London what you suggest could work, but not in rural areas. Also what you may not realise is many cabs run 24/7. I used to be private hire driver (not in London) and quite a lot of vehicles had one driver doing the day shift and one doing the night shift. Very often running a 6-8yo diesel Skoda, Safira, VW Sharon etc. literally running it into the ground. These aren’t people who have £40-£50k for an EV and lease purchase depends on mileage. Imagine the cost when you tell them you wanna do 50k miles a year instead of the 6k that’s usually the limit on their very attractive figures. Same for leasing but many leasing companies won’t allow the vehicle to be used for private hire as that affects the value. And why would a cab driver spend £60k on a new EV black cab when you plan to put him out of a job as soon as technology allows? I knew it
You are applying the here and now to what is going to happen tomorrow. There will be changes to how a driver operates their vehicle, the same way builder changed their working practice now they use battery drills.
When there is a living to be made there will answers. It could end up we need more taxi drivers, which would be a good thing, as most of the people who were against AV's were worried about job losses..
We can always find potential problems, the smart money is on those that can find solutions
But there’s not going to be a living. Someone told me AV is going to replace them all. Who will the black cab drivers sell their lovely new electric vehicles to? Nobody! They will be worthless.
And you are insisting a new hypothetical solution is found for a problem that doesn’t exist at the moment, but will be created by the phasing out of ICE cabs.
So we need more taxi drivers to invest twice as much money into a business that’s going to be made illegal as soon as the technology allows?
Where do I sign up for that 😂
Timelines, it all about the timelines.
AV's are not realistically going to be the mainstream mode of transport for a good few years yet, not too many but enough for people to get used to the idea. "It’s the unknown. All good at the moment but as soon as the type of conversation we had on the AV thread is had on mainstream media, with a potential timeframe, all investment will stop. We don’t know when the AV dream becomes a reality (if ever) maybe 10-15 years? Interestingly, 10 years time is when the tipping point regarding EVs is likely to be. No offence, but in one breath you are pushing for EVs and in the next you’re saying in 15 years the current concept of EVs will be a thing of the past. So why not let ICEs have an extra 10 years? The impact on the environment compared to everything else would be close to non existent. And we won’t have a trillion quids worth of defunct EVs lying around that nobody can use in the new AV grid. | |||
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"I’m glad you know the pitfalls of your own argument 😂 You make some valid points, but…. In London what you suggest could work, but not in rural areas. Also what you may not realise is many cabs run 24/7. I used to be private hire driver (not in London) and quite a lot of vehicles had one driver doing the day shift and one doing the night shift. Very often running a 6-8yo diesel Skoda, Safira, VW Sharon etc. literally running it into the ground. These aren’t people who have £40-£50k for an EV and lease purchase depends on mileage. Imagine the cost when you tell them you wanna do 50k miles a year instead of the 6k that’s usually the limit on their very attractive figures. Same for leasing but many leasing companies won’t allow the vehicle to be used for private hire as that affects the value. And why would a cab driver spend £60k on a new EV black cab when you plan to put him out of a job as soon as technology allows? I knew it
You are applying the here and now to what is going to happen tomorrow. There will be changes to how a driver operates their vehicle, the same way builder changed their working practice now they use battery drills.
When there is a living to be made there will answers. It could end up we need more taxi drivers, which would be a good thing, as most of the people who were against AV's were worried about job losses..
We can always find potential problems, the smart money is on those that can find solutions
But there’s not going to be a living. Someone told me AV is going to replace them all. Who will the black cab drivers sell their lovely new electric vehicles to? Nobody! They will be worthless.
And you are insisting a new hypothetical solution is found for a problem that doesn’t exist at the moment, but will be created by the phasing out of ICE cabs.
So we need more taxi drivers to invest twice as much money into a business that’s going to be made illegal as soon as the technology allows?
Where do I sign up for that 😂
Timelines, it all about the timelines.
AV's are not realistically going to be the mainstream mode of transport for a good few years yet, not too many but enough for people to get used to the idea.
It’s the unknown. All good at the moment but as soon as the type of conversation we had on the AV thread is had on mainstream media, with a potential timeframe, all investment will stop.
We don’t know when the AV dream becomes a reality (if ever) maybe 10-15 years? Interestingly, 10 years time is when the tipping point regarding EVs is likely to be.
No offence, but in one breath you are pushing for EVs and in the next you’re saying in 15 years the current concept of EVs will be a thing of the past. So why not let ICEs have an extra 10 years? The impact on the environment compared to everything else would be close to non existent. And we won’t have a trillion quids worth of defunct EVs lying around that nobody can use in the new AV grid. "The stop on EV's needs to happen sooner rather than later. There are so many of them that the lead time to the position of them not being on the road is a barrier. There is no magic wand to get rid of them overnight, but go they must. What is exactly your resistance to EV's and eventually AV's? Arriving at the AV stage will as I mentioned previously, change the landscape as we know it. Cars wont be littering the sides of roads all day and night, more space will be available around towns and cities, cleaner air, far less accidents, no boy racers, no horn blasting, no wheel spinning, no racing on public highways, commercial deliveries will not have HGV's driving through towns and cities, it will be more peaceful. I can only see benefits. I think you look at this like the dawn of the first mobile phone, a huge contraption that needed a battery the size of a car and cost a fortune, today a mobile phone is a different beast altogether. | |||
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"I’m glad you know the pitfalls of your own argument 😂 You make some valid points, but…. In London what you suggest could work, but not in rural areas. Also what you may not realise is many cabs run 24/7. I used to be private hire driver (not in London) and quite a lot of vehicles had one driver doing the day shift and one doing the night shift. Very often running a 6-8yo diesel Skoda, Safira, VW Sharon etc. literally running it into the ground. These aren’t people who have £40-£50k for an EV and lease purchase depends on mileage. Imagine the cost when you tell them you wanna do 50k miles a year instead of the 6k that’s usually the limit on their very attractive figures. Same for leasing but many leasing companies won’t allow the vehicle to be used for private hire as that affects the value. And why would a cab driver spend £60k on a new EV black cab when you plan to put him out of a job as soon as technology allows? I knew it
You are applying the here and now to what is going to happen tomorrow. There will be changes to how a driver operates their vehicle, the same way builder changed their working practice now they use battery drills.
When there is a living to be made there will answers. It could end up we need more taxi drivers, which would be a good thing, as most of the people who were against AV's were worried about job losses..
We can always find potential problems, the smart money is on those that can find solutions
But there’s not going to be a living. Someone told me AV is going to replace them all. Who will the black cab drivers sell their lovely new electric vehicles to? Nobody! They will be worthless.
And you are insisting a new hypothetical solution is found for a problem that doesn’t exist at the moment, but will be created by the phasing out of ICE cabs.
So we need more taxi drivers to invest twice as much money into a business that’s going to be made illegal as soon as the technology allows?
Where do I sign up for that 😂
Timelines, it all about the timelines.
AV's are not realistically going to be the mainstream mode of transport for a good few years yet, not too many but enough for people to get used to the idea.
It’s the unknown. All good at the moment but as soon as the type of conversation we had on the AV thread is had on mainstream media, with a potential timeframe, all investment will stop.
We don’t know when the AV dream becomes a reality (if ever) maybe 10-15 years? Interestingly, 10 years time is when the tipping point regarding EVs is likely to be.
No offence, but in one breath you are pushing for EVs and in the next you’re saying in 15 years the current concept of EVs will be a thing of the past. So why not let ICEs have an extra 10 years? The impact on the environment compared to everything else would be close to non existent. And we won’t have a trillion quids worth of defunct EVs lying around that nobody can use in the new AV grid.
The stop on EV's needs to happen sooner rather than later. There are so many of them that the lead time to the position of them not being on the road is a barrier.
There is no magic wand to get rid of them overnight, but go they must.
What is exactly your resistance to EV's and eventually AV's?
Arriving at the AV stage will as I mentioned previously, change the landscape as we know it. Cars wont be littering the sides of roads all day and night, more space will be available around towns and cities, cleaner air, far less accidents, no boy racers, no horn blasting, no wheel spinning, no racing on public highways, commercial deliveries will not have HGV's driving through towns and cities, it will be more peaceful.
I can only see benefits. I think you look at this like the dawn of the first mobile phone, a huge contraption that needed a battery the size of a car and cost a fortune, today a mobile phone is a different beast altogether. "***not a stop on EV's, a stop in ICE*** | |||
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"today a mobile phone is a different beast altogether. " What? Overpriced, breaks easily, last about 2 or 3 years before it's battery starts giving you problems? New technology isn't necessarily better. Let's see how that EV copes in winter, don't you dare put those blowers on! | |||
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"I just have no interest in them after I was told that fitting charging points where I wanted them at home would cost me about £15k Almost all EVs come with a cable that you can just plug into a normal socket. That will charge your car up overnight unless you do long journeys. There's no need to spend any money on 'charging stations'." My house is 18th century, I'm damned if I want a bloody great big cable dangling out of the front window just so I can park a car where I want to | |||
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"I just have no interest in them after I was told that fitting charging points where I wanted them at home would cost me about £15k Almost all EVs come with a cable that you can just plug into a normal socket. That will charge your car up overnight unless you do long journeys. There's no need to spend any money on 'charging stations'. My house is 18th century, I'm damned if I want a bloody great big cable dangling out of the front window just so I can park a car where I want to "I would be giving you 13K reasons why I would flexible where I parked my car | |||
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" If your life is in a contained area and you don’t do much then they are probably fine. If your life is over a wider area and you are busy then they aren’t suitable. The problem we have is that a) government interference is screwing up the car market b) when the vehicle restrictions kick in that will screw up the market even more with unknown effects c) none of this anyway is going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate so it’s completely idiotic. But sure, if someone wants to buy an EV I support their right to do so. At the moment the only people who buy EV’s are: 1. Company car drivers 2. State subsidised drivers 3. Rich people 4. Idiots " If you want to know why we can’t have a reasonable conversation about things like this … and you want to basically get people’s backs up…. I show you “exhibit A” The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points Literally from today the new EV grant goes live for new EVs under 37k I don’t have problem with encouraging people There is a thriving 2nd hand used EV market out there, if you don’t mind getting a 2-3-4 year old car, there are bargains to be had! It will get better, you’d think that in the 1st couple of expanded years of car usage all the infrastructure was there from day 1.. and the cars were all Super efficient from day 1 And as for climate… just what you are breathing in is better for all the electric trains we have, and all the electric buses we use, and heck , all the way down to the electric vans for example Amazon used for deliveries | |||
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" The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points" So about 45,000 a year? Do you know how many cars there are in the UK? 34 million. How many properties it’s estimated can’t have an at home charging point? Flats, apartments, maisonettes etc? Houses that can’t be parked outside. Over 7 million roughly. So at current rate, they’ll be enough charging points for them all in 155 years. | |||
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" The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points So about 45,000 a year? Do you know how many cars there are in the UK? 34 million. How many properties it’s estimated can’t have an at home charging point? Flats, apartments, maisonettes etc? Houses that can’t be parked outside. Over 7 million roughly. So at current rate, they’ll be enough charging points for them all in 155 years. " while you're there, can you tell us all how much longer before every ICE car gets it's own petrol pump, coz we've already been waiting 135 years. | |||
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" The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points So about 45,000 a year? Do you know how many cars there are in the UK? 34 million. How many properties it’s estimated can’t have an at home charging point? Flats, apartments, maisonettes etc? Houses that can’t be parked outside. Over 7 million roughly. So at current rate, they’ll be enough charging points for them all in 155 years. while you're there, can you tell us all how much longer before every ICE car gets it's own petrol pump, coz we've already been waiting 135 years." I think you’ve confused which number I was referring to. 7 million homes needing to use a public charging point because they can’t have one at home. We’re installing 45,000 a year roughly. So that’s 155 years behind there’s enough charging points. Even if we assume half of those residents don’t have a car, some will have two or more. So maybe 100 years? | |||
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" If your life is in a contained area and you don’t do much then they are probably fine. If your life is over a wider area and you are busy then they aren’t suitable. The problem we have is that a) government interference is screwing up the car market b) when the vehicle restrictions kick in that will screw up the market even more with unknown effects c) none of this anyway is going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate so it’s completely idiotic. But sure, if someone wants to buy an EV I support their right to do so. At the moment the only people who buy EV’s are: 1. Company car drivers 2. State subsidised drivers 3. Rich people 4. Idiots If you want to know why we can’t have a reasonable conversation about things like this … and you want to basically get people’s backs up…. I show you “exhibit A” The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points Literally from today the new EV grant goes live for new EVs under 37k I don’t have problem with encouraging people There is a thriving 2nd hand used EV market out there, if you don’t mind getting a 2-3-4 year old car, there are bargains to be had! It will get better, you’d think that in the 1st couple of expanded years of car usage all the infrastructure was there from day 1.. and the cars were all Super efficient from day 1 And as for climate… just what you are breathing in is better for all the electric trains we have, and all the electric buses we use, and heck , all the way down to the electric vans for example Amazon used for deliveries " You seem very defensive about this whole EV thing. I’ve already said that if people want to buy an EV then they should be allowed to do so. It’s just unfortunate that those of us who would prefer to stick with petrol aren’t being shown the same courtesy. I guess it’s just another nail in the coffin of the UK as it descends into a parochial Communist third world country at odds with the rest of the world. | |||
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" The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points So about 45,000 a year? Do you know how many cars there are in the UK? 34 million. How many properties it’s estimated can’t have an at home charging point? Flats, apartments, maisonettes etc? Houses that can’t be parked outside. Over 7 million roughly. So at current rate, they’ll be enough charging points for them all in 155 years. while you're there, can you tell us all how much longer before every ICE car gets it's own petrol pump, coz we've already been waiting 135 years. I think you’ve confused which number I was referring to. 7 million homes needing to use a public charging point because they can’t have one at home. We’re installing 45,000 a year roughly. So that’s 155 years behind there’s enough charging points. Even if we assume half of those residents don’t have a car, some will have two or more. So maybe 100 years? " But you are taking about petrol stations disappearing and not being replaced , why would they not be replaced with charging stations? | |||
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"The whole original idea about EVs and hybrid cars was the cheapness to run and the lower environmental impact. Initially cars were smaller, very aerodynamic Prius, ionic and so on ... Designed to do amazing mph with a mixture of self regeneration, plug in and combustion engine power. Celebs brought a Prius to look "environmentally friendly" Then somewhere along the way the whole initial purpose has gone right out of the window. Huge car's shaped like a garden shed, packed with every electrical gadget on the planet even standing still they suck juice like a mother fucker, running costs are by all accounts if doing any long journeys ridiculously expensive. The car's are expensive,the insurance is expensive due to for many accidents most car's are written off, getting charged points installed are expensive and the they are souless household appliances. And the last thing they are is environmentally friendly. So why, what's the point??? Someone somewhere is pissing themselves laughing at the UK and they are making alot of money from our eagerness and virtue signalling attitude to look superior to others. " I normally respect your responses on threads… but the last half of what you have written is full of so many old stereotypes it’s actually disappointing It’s a perception problem that EV cars were seen as luxury cars, but there are car makers that now play at the lower end of the spectrum.. Kia, Hyundai, Ford, Renault, fiat to name a few Again… they don’t use as many electricity standing still that an ICE car does running petrol… it’s perceptions And the other thing about the environmental impact… the UN did a report, they reckoned the tipping point where a EV was more environmentally friendly is about 3 years usage. Natural magazine “science” also did a study, they reckoned the tipping points was around 28-30 thousand miles I am finding as much of it is fighting the incorrect misinformation that is out there is so ingrained | |||
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"You get a 3 to 7 year warranty on petrol or diesel engine. You get a 10 year warranty on an electric car." But you end up with an electric car with no resale value. Porsche have even stopped taken tacans in as part exchange now as they can’t move them on … | |||
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" The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points So about 45,000 a year? Do you know how many cars there are in the UK? 34 million. How many properties it’s estimated can’t have an at home charging point? Flats, apartments, maisonettes etc? Houses that can’t be parked outside. Over 7 million roughly. So at current rate, they’ll be enough charging points for them all in 155 years. while you're there, can you tell us all how much longer before every ICE car gets it's own petrol pump, coz we've already been waiting 135 years." This is the advantage again for petrol, you don’t need a pump per car, as it takes only 5 mins on average to fill a car, 1 pump can service 7 - 8 cars in the time an above average public charger could service 1 Bev. | |||
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" On a motorway you can split the 6 - 8 lanes however you want them to be, 2 north 4 south, 1 south, 7 north. Speed of travel is also something that can increase, allowing cars to move a faster speeds on controlled networks, traffic lights outside of pedestrian crossings will not be needed, the cars can and will automate through the junction at speed. Just want to pick up on those two points. Ripping up the central reservation barriers and tarmac over them to allow for multi lane use would probably cost a trillion quid. But there’s a lot of roads that would benefit from tidal flow management of lanes so it’s a good idea in principle. I’m not sure about doing away with traffic lights and cars wizzing through junctions at speed. At many junctions you can’t see what’s around the corner until you’re passing the traffic light. If that turns about to be an automated 30 ton truck doing 50mph then people are gonna die. I know it wouldn’t be implemented at junctions where that’s possible, but for a long time there would be a mixture of automated and human driven vehicles on the road. Unless you’re gonna make driving a car illegal? That is the plan. Driving tests will be scrapped at some point, I would also expect the upper age of driving will also be lowered, as an example at 60. I would also expect ICE and early low functional EV's to be scrapped. This will strip away quite quickly the manually driven cars. The point of cars whizzing around and not being able to see around corners, that is a human problem. With cars linked to 1 protocol, approaching a junction will be managed by the system prioritising each car as it enters the junction. The system will see all vehicles approaching and will slot each car into their respective speeds and distances. I'm not sure if you have ever seen automation in Parcel logistics or manufacturing? They use the same type of reasoning with their tech to move hundreds of thousands of items around the network infrastructure at speed arriving at the right destination without colliding with other parcels on the system. " So how would this work for trasds how like me use a van as 1. A mobile toolbox 2. A mobile stock to fix problems If we go down your autonomous path would I spend t hours loading it AM and un loding PM. Would it be just sat out side for when I need more parts or tools or would I have to wate for it to come back? Small vans are not even available as as hybrid yet and electric vans don't do the distance loaded. | |||
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"I just have no interest in them after I was told that fitting charging points where I wanted them at home would cost me about £15k" "Almost all EVs come with a cable that you can just plug into a normal socket. That will charge your car up overnight unless you do long journeys. There's no need to spend any money on 'charging stations'." "My house is 18th century, I'm damned if I want a bloody great big cable dangling out of the front window just so I can park a car where I want to" So your vanity is more important to you than practicality. Now I understand you. | |||
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"The only real issue I have with EVs in their current form is their inevitable obsolescence. We’re in a transitional technology phase, and no one seems to be thinking clearly about where it’s heading, or who it’s really for, in the now or in the years to come. This is exactly where government should step in. Not with arbitrary deadlines for the end of petrol and diesel, but with clear, consistent, and nationwide policies that gives manufacturers and operators a longterm roadmap. Right now, there’s far too much uncertainty and not enough strategic structure. The big wins are obvious, to me. Private hire vehicles / taxis should be front and centre. These cars are doing high miles every day, operating primarily in towns and cities, and contribute heavily to local air pollution. If we are serious about transitioning to EV and clean air, why aren’t we starting there? Operators like Uber, Bolt, and every other private hire platform should be required by national policy to go all electric. London is moving in the right direction, but that’s just one city. This needs to be led by the government, no EV, no licence. It should be that simple. It’s a straightforward step. It’s easy to regulate, and it sends a clear signal if you earn your living on the road, you have a responsibility to help clean it up. Transition to an EV by 2028 or you don’t operate. The numbers of EV's would increase on our roads significantly, that is important to normalise them. The way this is being allowed to unravel, with no structured plan, is typical of policy in this country. It’s like recycling everyone is told they must do it, but there’s no national guideline on what should or shouldn’t be recycled. It’s inconsistent. Setting targets without setting standards, is what leads to poor outcomes. I'm looking forward to the push back on this! I can already hear, what happens if the cab needs charging to get you home half way through the journey. Or, when are taxi drivers supposed to charge the taxi up if they are driving all day "Taxi and all paid drivers will soon be under hours limited operation anyway but that's just the driver not the vehicle. | |||
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" The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points So about 45,000 a year? Do you know how many cars there are in the UK? 34 million. How many properties it’s estimated can’t have an at home charging point? Flats, apartments, maisonettes etc? Houses that can’t be parked outside. Over 7 million roughly. So at current rate, they’ll be enough charging points for them all in 155 years. while you're there, can you tell us all how much longer before every ICE car gets it's own petrol pump, coz we've already been waiting 135 years. I think you’ve confused which number I was referring to. 7 million homes needing to use a public charging point because they can’t have one at home. We’re installing 45,000 a year roughly. So that’s 155 years behind there’s enough charging points. Even if we assume half of those residents don’t have a car, some will have two or more. So maybe 100 years? But you are taking about petrol stations disappearing and not being replaced , why would they not be replaced with charging stations? " I haven’t mentioned petrol stations. | |||
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"The only real issue I have with EVs in their current form is their inevitable obsolescence. We’re in a transitional technology phase, and no one seems to be thinking clearly about where it’s heading, or who it’s really for, in the now or in the years to come. This is exactly where government should step in. Not with arbitrary deadlines for the end of petrol and diesel, but with clear, consistent, and nationwide policies that gives manufacturers and operators a longterm roadmap. Right now, there’s far too much uncertainty and not enough strategic structure. The big wins are obvious, to me. Private hire vehicles / taxis should be front and centre. These cars are doing high miles every day, operating primarily in towns and cities, and contribute heavily to local air pollution. If we are serious about transitioning to EV and clean air, why aren’t we starting there? Operators like Uber, Bolt, and every other private hire platform should be required by national policy to go all electric. London is moving in the right direction, but that’s just one city. This needs to be led by the government, no EV, no licence. It should be that simple. It’s a straightforward step. It’s easy to regulate, and it sends a clear signal if you earn your living on the road, you have a responsibility to help clean it up. Transition to an EV by 2028 or you don’t operate. The numbers of EV's would increase on our roads significantly, that is important to normalise them. The way this is being allowed to unravel, with no structured plan, is typical of policy in this country. It’s like recycling everyone is told they must do it, but there’s no national guideline on what should or shouldn’t be recycled. It’s inconsistent. Setting targets without setting standards, is what leads to poor outcomes. I'm looking forward to the push back on this! I can already hear, what happens if the cab needs charging to get you home half way through the journey. Or, when are taxi drivers supposed to charge the taxi up if they are driving all day
Taxi and all paid drivers will soon be under hours limited operation anyway but that's just the driver not the vehicle. "Not heard of that? When is that happening? But if it’s 8 hours per day, a taxi will just have 3 drivers. Many cars already have 2 And some industries will vanish overnight if a driver can’t work more than 8-9 hours a day, 40 hours a week. | |||
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"The only real issue I have with EVs in their current form is their inevitable obsolescence. We’re in a transitional technology phase, and no one seems to be thinking clearly about where it’s heading, or who it’s really for, in the now or in the years to come. This is exactly where government should step in. Not with arbitrary deadlines for the end of petrol and diesel, but with clear, consistent, and nationwide policies that gives manufacturers and operators a longterm roadmap. Right now, there’s far too much uncertainty and not enough strategic structure. The big wins are obvious, to me. Private hire vehicles / taxis should be front and centre. These cars are doing high miles every day, operating primarily in towns and cities, and contribute heavily to local air pollution. If we are serious about transitioning to EV and clean air, why aren’t we starting there? Operators like Uber, Bolt, and every other private hire platform should be required by national policy to go all electric. London is moving in the right direction, but that’s just one city. This needs to be led by the government, no EV, no licence. It should be that simple. It’s a straightforward step. It’s easy to regulate, and it sends a clear signal if you earn your living on the road, you have a responsibility to help clean it up. Transition to an EV by 2028 or you don’t operate. The numbers of EV's would increase on our roads significantly, that is important to normalise them. The way this is being allowed to unravel, with no structured plan, is typical of policy in this country. It’s like recycling everyone is told they must do it, but there’s no national guideline on what should or shouldn’t be recycled. It’s inconsistent. Setting targets without setting standards, is what leads to poor outcomes. I'm looking forward to the push back on this! I can already hear, what happens if the cab needs charging to get you home half way through the journey. Or, when are taxi drivers supposed to charge the taxi up if they are driving all day
Taxi and all paid drivers will soon be under hours limited operation anyway but that's just the driver not the vehicle.
Not heard of that? When is that happening?
But if it’s 8 hours per day, a taxi will just have 3 drivers. Many cars already have 2
And some industries will vanish overnight if a driver can’t work more than 8-9 hours a day, 40 hours a week. "We run lorrys and delivery vans and speaking to transport the small vans will be next under tacko then all paid drivers so there costs will go up so our costs as consumers will go up. | |||
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" Taxi and all paid drivers will soon be under hours limited operation anyway but that's just the driver not the vehicle. Not heard of that? When is that happening? But if it’s 8 hours per day, a taxi will just have 3 drivers. Many cars already have 2 And some industries will vanish overnight if a driver can’t work more than 8-9 hours a day, 40 hours a week. We run lorrys and delivery vans and speaking to transport the small vans will be next under tacko then all paid drivers, so there costs will go up so our costs as consumers will go up. " I used to do trade plate vehicle delivery, nothing unusual to do 14 hour days. Not driving all day of course. I’d be interested to know how many collisions are caused by tiredness | |||
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"I just have no interest in them after I was told that fitting charging points where I wanted them at home would cost me about £15k Almost all EVs come with a cable that you can just plug into a normal socket. That will charge your car up overnight unless you do long journeys. There's no need to spend any money on 'charging stations'. My house is 18th century, I'm damned if I want a bloody great big cable dangling out of the front window just so I can park a car where I want to So your vanity is more important to you than practicality. Now I understand you." If by "vanity" you mean appreciation of aesthetics, then yes, it's absolutely more important to me than practicality. If I lived in a suburban 2 bed pebble-dashed semi with a broken fridge and rusting trampoline in the front garden, I probably wouldn't care about having cables all over the drive. But I don't. Apart from the car I lease to go golfing and other wholesome pursuits, currently a Q7, I have a 1964 Morgan plus 4. Absolute pig of a car to drive, can't see much of the road ahead for about 50 yards, no power steering and poor weight distribution over the front so 3 point turns in forest pub car parks need the strength of the Hulk to move the steering wheel, and it does gallons to the mile, not the other way round, but none of those things matter because it's a Morgan and it's beautiful. It has soul. The Q7 is comfortable, very hi-tech and easy to drive but it's a lump of metal and plastic - nothing more than a tool. My sister has a Tesla with an interior that looks like a dentist's waiting room with a tv screen in it. The last time she visited it was pissing down and she got soaked running to and from the house with the cable she brought with her. You can keep "practical" thanks, life's too short not to enjoy it fully | |||
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" If your life is in a contained area and you don’t do much then they are probably fine. If your life is over a wider area and you are busy then they aren’t suitable. The problem we have is that a) government interference is screwing up the car market b) when the vehicle restrictions kick in that will screw up the market even more with unknown effects c) none of this anyway is going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate so it’s completely idiotic. But sure, if someone wants to buy an EV I support their right to do so. At the moment the only people who buy EV’s are: 1. Company car drivers 2. State subsidised drivers 3. Rich people 4. Idiots If you want to know why we can’t have a reasonable conversation about things like this … and you want to basically get people’s backs up…. I show you “exhibit A” The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points Literally from today the new EV grant goes live for new EVs under 37k I don’t have problem with encouraging people There is a thriving 2nd hand used EV market out there, if you don’t mind getting a 2-3-4 year old car, there are bargains to be had! It will get better, you’d think that in the 1st couple of expanded years of car usage all the infrastructure was there from day 1.. and the cars were all Super efficient from day 1 And as for climate… just what you are breathing in is better for all the electric trains we have, and all the electric buses we use, and heck , all the way down to the electric vans for example Amazon used for deliveries You seem very defensive about this whole EV thing. I’ve already said that if people want to buy an EV then they should be allowed to do so. It’s just unfortunate that those of us who would prefer to stick with petrol aren’t being shown the same courtesy. I guess it’s just another nail in the coffin of the UK as it descends into a parochial Communist third world country at odds with the rest of the world. " Hey Buck, did you say you were going to get a Tesla in support of Musk after he bust out his "Roman Salut"? | |||
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" If your life is in a contained area and you don’t do much then they are probably fine. If your life is over a wider area and you are busy then they aren’t suitable. The problem we have is that a) government interference is screwing up the car market b) when the vehicle restrictions kick in that will screw up the market even more with unknown effects c) none of this anyway is going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate so it’s completely idiotic. But sure, if someone wants to buy an EV I support their right to do so. At the moment the only people who buy EV’s are: 1. Company car drivers 2. State subsidised drivers 3. Rich people 4. Idiots If you want to know why we can’t have a reasonable conversation about things like this … and you want to basically get people’s backs up…. I show you “exhibit A” The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points Literally from today the new EV grant goes live for new EVs under 37k I don’t have problem with encouraging people There is a thriving 2nd hand used EV market out there, if you don’t mind getting a 2-3-4 year old car, there are bargains to be had! It will get better, you’d think that in the 1st couple of expanded years of car usage all the infrastructure was there from day 1.. and the cars were all Super efficient from day 1 And as for climate… just what you are breathing in is better for all the electric trains we have, and all the electric buses we use, and heck , all the way down to the electric vans for example Amazon used for deliveries You seem very defensive about this whole EV thing. I’ve already said that if people want to buy an EV then they should be allowed to do so. It’s just unfortunate that those of us who would prefer to stick with petrol aren’t being shown the same courtesy. I guess it’s just another nail in the coffin of the UK as it descends into a parochial Communist third world country at odds with the rest of the world. Hey Buck, did you say you were going to get a Tesla in support of Musk after he bust out his "Roman Salut"?" Yawn. Another busy Saturday night was it? How do you manage to post on here without funding “Big Oil”? Maybe stay away from the keyboard when you’ve had half a glass of the organic low alcohol Pinot. How’s the EV, heat pump, and solar panels going? Any updates? | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. " I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... | |||
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" If your life is in a contained area and you don’t do much then they are probably fine. If your life is over a wider area and you are busy then they aren’t suitable. The problem we have is that a) government interference is screwing up the car market b) when the vehicle restrictions kick in that will screw up the market even more with unknown effects c) none of this anyway is going to make a blind bit of difference to the climate so it’s completely idiotic. But sure, if someone wants to buy an EV I support their right to do so. At the moment the only people who buy EV’s are: 1. Company car drivers 2. State subsidised drivers 3. Rich people 4. Idiots If you want to know why we can’t have a reasonable conversation about things like this … and you want to basically get people’s backs up…. I show you “exhibit A” The infrastructure will get better… at the moment 75,000 charging points.. as part of this spend, the target is to go up in the next 5 years from 75000 to 300,000 charging points Literally from today the new EV grant goes live for new EVs under 37k I don’t have problem with encouraging people There is a thriving 2nd hand used EV market out there, if you don’t mind getting a 2-3-4 year old car, there are bargains to be had! It will get better, you’d think that in the 1st couple of expanded years of car usage all the infrastructure was there from day 1.. and the cars were all Super efficient from day 1 And as for climate… just what you are breathing in is better for all the electric trains we have, and all the electric buses we use, and heck , all the way down to the electric vans for example Amazon used for deliveries You seem very defensive about this whole EV thing. I’ve already said that if people want to buy an EV then they should be allowed to do so. It’s just unfortunate that those of us who would prefer to stick with petrol aren’t being shown the same courtesy. I guess it’s just another nail in the coffin of the UK as it descends into a parochial Communist third world country at odds with the rest of the world. Hey Buck, did you say you were going to get a Tesla in support of Musk after he bust out his "Roman Salut"? Yawn. Another busy Saturday night was it? How do you manage to post on here without funding “Big Oil”? Maybe stay away from the keyboard when you’ve had half a glass of the organic low alcohol Pinot. How’s the EV, heat pump, and solar panels going? Any updates?" Did you change your mind then in the end? | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help......." Well they will come in very useful. After you've dangled your 70 metre extension cable out of the window (or over your balcony if you've got one) Then abseiled down the building to fix it to the wall. The need to abseil can be avoided if your building has one of those window cleaning gondola thingy's. A good electrician (if you can find one) will charge around 150 quid an hour, plus call out charge of course, to spend the whole afternoon connecting your cable to the cable in the gully. Only to find that the council forgot to put any cable in the gully. No problem, your new electrician friend can supply the cable at 50 quid a metre and it's only 30 metres down the gully to your parking spot. As he tries to open the gully he notices a sign saying "cannot be opened without planning permission". You phone the town hall who inform you that there is a bit of a backlog so it could take up to 6 months to sort the paperwork. Not to worry, the town hall takes on extra staff and they manage it in 5 months. You phone your electrician friend to find out that he has now left the country because he can't afford Rachels new tax bombshell. Meanwhile the local pigeons have used your 70 metre cable as nesting material. Just think of all the fun you would have missed if you'd stuck with your old diesel. | |||
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"The way the public sector wastes money £25 million for “cross-pavement gullies” should do a few streets. Fantasy land. EV’s in theory could be suitable for two car families who don’t travel very far in one of them and where the second car is petrol but even then they stlll have the same problems: They are way more expensive to buy and the depreciation is awful - presumably the government thinks most private buyers will buy them on Finance - great news for the finance companies and manufacturers who can keep making expensive cars The batteries don’t last so people will have to replace the cars more frequently - again pushing people to use Finance rather than buy outright The ranges are crap and misleading - the figures given out by manufacturers are tantamount to legalised lying. If petrol cars did 30% less than the claimed range governments would have clamped down on them years ago. The Charging infrastructure doesn’t exist and there is no reason to think it ever will exist. Forcing people to buy substandard products at a higher price by banning cheaper and better alternatives has got to be the most epic act of economic self harm ever. The same goes for heat pumps. Couldn’t agree more. Also most modern cars are fairly clean now. The first year my diesel went for its MOT the tester said he thought the machine was broken because the readings were so close to zero. Some middle ground would help. If they wanna cut emissions, ban cars above 2.0l initially and see what happens. Sadiq Kahn will be doing his utmost to stop the ban, the ULEZ zone will eventually become irrelevant. How’s he gonna steal from people then? And lorry’s will still be diesel. They create nearly 20% of the emissions from 6% of the miles. So three times more polluting than cars but not being banned. It’s clearly got very little to do with pollution " Oil is increasingly being used as a political tool by those countries that have it, over those countries that don't. There is surely a political reason for this shift, to EVs that isn't related to the environmental reasons governments are pushing. | |||
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"That'll be Japan then if you want a right hand drive?" Not quite sure which earlier post that was an unquoted reply to but I certainly agree. I buy and drive grey imports as nothing made in Europe for the UK market is a proper right hand drive car. If there is eventually no choice but to buy electric, then I shall have to carry on using the grey import route in order to source a true RHD model. | |||
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" I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help......." So what do you do at the moment with your ICE car? You would go to a petrol station So what would you do at the moment with an EV car? You would go to a charging station Pavement gullies will help some… I don’t see why people basically want to piss on any idea that will help some people | |||
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"A survey was carried out at a motorway services , and out come was that on average 120 vehicles a hour stopped to refuel ie cars hgv and coaches ‘ most have them stated a minimum of 15 minutes to refuel and pay plus buy a few snacks , the out come is , if more Evs. Were recharging , they would take a minimum of one hour , the service area for charges would have to be quadrupled to accommodate all the evs plus extra heavy duty cables and substations to allow for the amount of electricity required , this would cost the services millions of pounds to change the infrastructure , incurring in high charges to recharge plus parking charges of over 2 hours . " For balance currently 120 million litres of fuel is sold daily at 8380 uk petrol stations Taking into account the transportation, delivery, and burning of that sold fuel annually how does that correlate to the one off build and cost of EV infastructure . | |||
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"Motorcyclist here. Not looking forward to autonomous vehicles, they have a poor record re. Smashing into bikes (in the US). What will happen to us bikers in your driverless future?" Accidents between motorcycles and AV's are 86 - 90% lower than with human controlled vehicles, and not as deadly if there is an accident. Motorcycles are on the same EV timeline, and I will assume they will be phased out at some point in the future. | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... Well they will come in very useful. After you've dangled your 70 metre extension cable out of the window (or over your balcony if you've got one) Then abseiled down the building to fix it to the wall. The need to abseil can be avoided if your building has one of those window cleaning gondola thingy's. A good electrician (if you can find one) will charge around 150 quid an hour, plus call out charge of course, to spend the whole afternoon connecting your cable to the cable in the gully. Only to find that the council forgot to put any cable in the gully. No problem, your new electrician friend can supply the cable at 50 quid a metre and it's only 30 metres down the gully to your parking spot. As he tries to open the gully he notices a sign saying "cannot be opened without planning permission". You phone the town hall who inform you that there is a bit of a backlog so it could take up to 6 months to sort the paperwork. Not to worry, the town hall takes on extra staff and they manage it in 5 months. You phone your electrician friend to find out that he has now left the country because he can't afford Rachels new tax bombshell. Meanwhile the local pigeons have used your 70 metre cable as nesting material. Just think of all the fun you would have missed if you'd stuck with your old diesel. "Or those of us with half a brain cell will run cables into the gulleys from a central source and when a car plugs in it will be recognized as being registered, start charging, and an invoice will be sent to the owner. Not unlike smart meters in your house. Job done, where's that cuppa | |||
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"Motorcyclist here. Not looking forward to autonomous vehicles, they have a poor record re. Smashing into bikes (in the US). What will happen to us bikers in your driverless future? Accidents between motorcycles and AV's are 86 - 90% lower than with human controlled vehicles, and not as deadly if there is an accident. Motorcycles are on the same EV timeline, and I will assume they will be phased out at some point in the future." Interesting. Do you have a reference for those crash stats? Genuineky interested. Also we can't assume peds, horses, motorcycles or indeed bicycles week be phased out either. I honestly don't think people would accept that. If AVs need all other vehicles removing from the roads in order to work, I suggest they don't work. It's a pipedream. | |||
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"Motorcyclist here. Not looking forward to autonomous vehicles, they have a poor record re. Smashing into bikes (in the US). What will happen to us bikers in your driverless future? Accidents between motorcycles and AV's are 86 - 90% lower than with human controlled vehicles, and not as deadly if there is an accident. Motorcycles are on the same EV timeline, and I will assume they will be phased out at some point in the future." Electric motorcycles are not desirable. In isolation Harley Davidson lost $89M on their electric livewire motorcycle project. | |||
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"Motorcyclist here. Not looking forward to autonomous vehicles, they have a poor record re. Smashing into bikes (in the US). What will happen to us bikers in your driverless future?" Electric bikes will be restricted power. The days of the Panigale and Hayabusa are numbered. | |||
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"Motorcyclist here. Not looking forward to autonomous vehicles, they have a poor record re. Smashing into bikes (in the US). What will happen to us bikers in your driverless future? Accidents between motorcycles and AV's are 86 - 90% lower than with human controlled vehicles, and not as deadly if there is an accident. Motorcycles are on the same EV timeline, and I will assume they will be phased out at some point in the future. Interesting. Do you have a reference for those crash stats? Genuineky interested. Also we can't assume peds, horses, motorcycles or indeed bicycles week be phased out either. I honestly don't think people would accept that. If AVs need all other vehicles removing from the roads in order to work, I suggest they don't work. It's a pipedream." Look up Waymo’s accident data, it’s all published. There is a lot of spin out there, though.. Here are the key bits: Waymo’s vehicles record around 9 reportable incidents per million miles Human drivers average 4.1 crashes per million miles, but with a far higher fatality rate Waymo has had zero fatalities in over 57 million miles driven and now completing 250k miles a month in one of the worlds busiest and complex road networks. Almost all incidents are caused by others, rear end collisions, a cyclist swerving into it, even a shopping trolley hitting it all count as “Waymo accidents” under reporting rules The devil’s in the detail. AVs aren’t perfect, but they don’t cause most of the accidents they’re involved in. Things will change considerably when it gets to that point (50+ years I would imagine, maybe more), the roads, towns etc will be used in a different and safer way making it a more human environment to get around on bikes and foot without cars shooting around with human drivers being distracted or making poor decisions. | |||
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"Motorcyclist here. Not looking forward to autonomous vehicles, they have a poor record re. Smashing into bikes (in the US). What will happen to us bikers in your driverless future? Accidents between motorcycles and AV's are 86 - 90% lower than with human controlled vehicles, and not as deadly if there is an accident. Motorcycles are on the same EV timeline, and I will assume they will be phased out at some point in the future. Electric motorcycles are not desirable. In isolation Harley Davidson lost $89M on their electric livewire motorcycle project. " i bought a livewire .... was delivered on 19th january .... it's the dogs bollocks!!! | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help......." You may have to rely on public chargers until they think of a viable way for you to connect to the flats. Problem I see with public chargers is the cost. Not from personal experience but from watching and reading 'what car' reports. They do comparison runs using Ev, hybrid and petrol. The EV is often the most expensive if they have to use a public charger and by quite a bit too. Having to use such chargers all the time could be very expensive. Also once petrol and diesel cars are gone how will the government make up the loss of all the tax they get from such fuel? | |||
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" Also once petrol and diesel cars are gone how will the government make up the loss of all the tax they get from such fuel?" Pay per mile. It's inevitable. | |||
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"Motorcyclist here. Not looking forward to autonomous vehicles, they have a poor record re. Smashing into bikes (in the US). What will happen to us bikers in your driverless future? Accidents between motorcycles and AV's are 86 - 90% lower than with human controlled vehicles, and not as deadly if there is an accident. Motorcycles are on the same EV timeline, and I will assume they will be phased out at some point in the future. Interesting. Do you have a reference for those crash stats? Genuineky interested. Also we can't assume peds, horses, motorcycles or indeed bicycles week be phased out either. I honestly don't think people would accept that. If AVs need all other vehicles removing from the roads in order to work, I suggest they don't work. It's a pipedream. Look up Waymo’s accident data, it’s all published. There is a lot of spin out there, though.. Here are the key bits: Waymo’s vehicles record around 9 reportable incidents per million miles Human drivers average 4.1 crashes per million miles, but with a far higher fatality rate Waymo has had zero fatalities in over 57 million miles driven and now completing 250k miles a month in one of the worlds busiest and complex road networks. Almost all incidents are caused by others, rear end collisions, a cyclist swerving into it, even a shopping trolley hitting it all count as “Waymo accidents” under reporting rules The devil’s in the detail. AVs aren’t perfect, but they don’t cause most of the accidents they’re involved in. Things will change considerably when it gets to that point (50+ years I would imagine, maybe more), the roads, towns etc will be used in a different and safer way making it a more human environment to get around on bikes and foot without cars shooting around with human drivers being distracted or making poor decisions. " Manufacturers' claims you say? Hmm. How do we treat tobacco industry research? Or the oil firms? But still. The idea that we will run everything off the road to accommodate AVs is mental. | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... Well they will come in very useful. After you've dangled your 70 metre extension cable out of the window (or over your balcony if you've got one) Then abseiled down the building to fix it to the wall. The need to abseil can be avoided if your building has one of those window cleaning gondola thingy's. A good electrician (if you can find one) will charge around 150 quid an hour, plus call out charge of course, to spend the whole afternoon connecting your cable to the cable in the gully. Only to find that the council forgot to put any cable in the gully. No problem, your new electrician friend can supply the cable at 50 quid a metre and it's only 30 metres down the gully to your parking spot. As he tries to open the gully he notices a sign saying "cannot be opened without planning permission". You phone the town hall who inform you that there is a bit of a backlog so it could take up to 6 months to sort the paperwork. Not to worry, the town hall takes on extra staff and they manage it in 5 months. You phone your electrician friend to find out that he has now left the country because he can't afford Rachels new tax bombshell. Meanwhile the local pigeons have used your 70 metre cable as nesting material. Just think of all the fun you would have missed if you'd stuck with your old diesel.
Or those of us with half a brain cell will run cables into the gulleys from a central source and when a car plugs in it will be recognized as being registered, start charging, and an invoice will be sent to the owner.
Not unlike smart meters in your house.
Job done, where's that cuppa"Nah! Maybe in Japan or South Korea but that is far too sensible for any UK town hall to get its head around. Health & safety risk assessment (2/3 months) Planning committee (6 months) Put out to tender (3 months) Environmental impact inquiry (at least a year or more if they find a nest of the endangered black and white depressed gully beetle) Then after all of that, bloke with a screwdriver (20 minutes) As you probably realise the above (and my other post) is a bit (a lot) tongue in cheek. But don't forget, these days truth can be stranger than fiction. Especially in Britain. Being sensible for a moment let's take a look at the aforementioned block of flats. So it's 16 floors and let's say 4 flats on each floor. That's 64 flats. At only one car per flat then that is how many chargers and dedicated parking spaces will be needed. To be fair you could say that some will not have a car, but then again some may have two. I'm sure some blocks will have enough land but there will be many that don't. Then there are the smaller buildings, old Victorian terraces and semi's now split into flats. Many situated on main roads with zero parking. Where would those gully's go? Street and communal parking causes enough trouble already. Chuck chargers into the mix and it's a recipe for civil war. All these gully's may look good in theory but out there in the real world? Where's my tin hat? | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... You may have to rely on public chargers until they think of a viable way for you to connect to the flats. Problem I see with public chargers is the cost. Not from personal experience but from watching and reading 'what car' reports. They do comparison runs using Ev, hybrid and petrol. The EV is often the most expensive if they have to use a public charger and by quite a bit too. Having to use such chargers all the time could be very expensive. Also once petrol and diesel cars are gone how will the government make up the loss of all the tax they get from such fuel?" The public EV charging costs is the one thing they may need to look at I agree.. and regulate it better, It doesn’t make sense to me that a tesla supercharger down the road charged 0.23 kw/h , whereas the bp up the road charged 0.55 kw/h Also you have the anomaly that home electricity is charged with 5% vat, whereas business electricity is charged with 20% vat… so just changing that would bring down prices | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... You may have to rely on public chargers until they think of a viable way for you to connect to the flats. Problem I see with public chargers is the cost. Not from personal experience but from watching and reading 'what car' reports. They do comparison runs using Ev, hybrid and petrol. The EV is often the most expensive if they have to use a public charger and by quite a bit too. Having to use such chargers all the time could be very expensive. Also once petrol and diesel cars are gone how will the government make up the loss of all the tax they get from such fuel? The public EV charging costs is the one thing they may need to look at I agree.. and regulate it better, It doesn’t make sense to me that a tesla supercharger down the road charged 0.23 kw/h , whereas the bp up the road charged 0.55 kw/h Also you have the anomaly that home electricity is charged with 5% vat, whereas business electricity is charged with 20% vat… so just changing that would bring down prices "Businesses who demand more power usually get a lower tariff for their electricity compared to the average home owner. | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... Well they will come in very useful. After you've dangled your 70 metre extension cable out of the window (or over your balcony if you've got one) Then abseiled down the building to fix it to the wall. The need to abseil can be avoided if your building has one of those window cleaning gondola thingy's. A good electrician (if you can find one) will charge around 150 quid an hour, plus call out charge of course, to spend the whole afternoon connecting your cable to the cable in the gully. Only to find that the council forgot to put any cable in the gully. No problem, your new electrician friend can supply the cable at 50 quid a metre and it's only 30 metres down the gully to your parking spot. As he tries to open the gully he notices a sign saying "cannot be opened without planning permission". You phone the town hall who inform you that there is a bit of a backlog so it could take up to 6 months to sort the paperwork. Not to worry, the town hall takes on extra staff and they manage it in 5 months. You phone your electrician friend to find out that he has now left the country because he can't afford Rachels new tax bombshell. Meanwhile the local pigeons have used your 70 metre cable as nesting material. Just think of all the fun you would have missed if you'd stuck with your old diesel.
Or those of us with half a brain cell will run cables into the gulleys from a central source and when a car plugs in it will be recognized as being registered, start charging, and an invoice will be sent to the owner.
Not unlike smart meters in your house.
Job done, where's that cuppa
Nah! Maybe in Japan or South Korea but that is far too sensible for any UK town hall to get its head around.
Health & safety risk assessment (2/3 months) Planning committee (6 months) Put out to tender (3 months) Environmental impact inquiry (at least a year or more if they find a nest of the endangered black and white depressed gully beetle)
Then after all of that, bloke with a screwdriver (20 minutes)
As you probably realise the above (and my other post) is a bit (a lot) tongue in cheek. But don't forget, these days truth can be stranger than fiction. Especially in Britain.
Being sensible for a moment let's take a look at the aforementioned block of flats.
So it's 16 floors and let's say 4 flats on each floor. That's 64 flats.
At only one car per flat then that is how many chargers and dedicated parking spaces will be needed. To be fair you could say that some will not have a car, but then again some may have two.
I'm sure some blocks will have enough land but there will be many that don't.
Then there are the smaller buildings, old Victorian terraces and semi's now split into flats. Many situated on main roads with zero parking. Where would those gully's go?
Street and communal parking causes enough trouble already. Chuck chargers into the mix and it's a recipe for civil war.
All these gully's may look good in theory but out there in the real world? Where's my tin hat?
"lol… okay… let me give you a suggestion/solution based on another problem the real world You “could” do it like car parking… find a space, ring a telephone number, it would have a number on it to signify location , debit card for payment There…. are there any dragons that would like to invest in my idea | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... Well they will come in very useful. After you've dangled your 70 metre extension cable out of the window (or over your balcony if you've got one) Then abseiled down the building to fix it to the wall. The need to abseil can be avoided if your building has one of those window cleaning gondola thingy's. A good electrician (if you can find one) will charge around 150 quid an hour, plus call out charge of course, to spend the whole afternoon connecting your cable to the cable in the gully. Only to find that the council forgot to put any cable in the gully. No problem, your new electrician friend can supply the cable at 50 quid a metre and it's only 30 metres down the gully to your parking spot. As he tries to open the gully he notices a sign saying "cannot be opened without planning permission". You phone the town hall who inform you that there is a bit of a backlog so it could take up to 6 months to sort the paperwork. Not to worry, the town hall takes on extra staff and they manage it in 5 months. You phone your electrician friend to find out that he has now left the country because he can't afford Rachels new tax bombshell. Meanwhile the local pigeons have used your 70 metre cable as nesting material. Just think of all the fun you would have missed if you'd stuck with your old diesel.
Or those of us with half a brain cell will run cables into the gulleys from a central source and when a car plugs in it will be recognized as being registered, start charging, and an invoice will be sent to the owner.
Not unlike smart meters in your house.
Job done, where's that cuppa
Nah! Maybe in Japan or South Korea but that is far too sensible for any UK town hall to get its head around.
Health & safety risk assessment (2/3 months) Planning committee (6 months) Put out to tender (3 months) Environmental impact inquiry (at least a year or more if they find a nest of the endangered black and white depressed gully beetle)
Then after all of that, bloke with a screwdriver (20 minutes)
As you probably realise the above (and my other post) is a bit (a lot) tongue in cheek. But don't forget, these days truth can be stranger than fiction. Especially in Britain.
Being sensible for a moment let's take a look at the aforementioned block of flats.
So it's 16 floors and let's say 4 flats on each floor. That's 64 flats.
At only one car per flat then that is how many chargers and dedicated parking spaces will be needed. To be fair you could say that some will not have a car, but then again some may have two.
I'm sure some blocks will have enough land but there will be many that don't.
Then there are the smaller buildings, old Victorian terraces and semi's now split into flats. Many situated on main roads with zero parking. Where would those gully's go?
Street and communal parking causes enough trouble already. Chuck chargers into the mix and it's a recipe for civil war.
All these gully's may look good in theory but out there in the real world? Where's my tin hat?
lol… okay… let me give you a suggestion/solution based on another problem the real world
You “could” do it like car parking… find a space, ring a telephone number, it would have a number on it to signify location , debit card for payment
There…. are there any dragons that would like to invest in my idea "No need, the car will send it's pre registered serial number as soon as it's plugged in followed by the amount of charge taken | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... Well they will come in very useful. After you've dangled your 70 metre extension cable out of the window (or over your balcony if you've got one) Then abseiled down the building to fix it to the wall. The need to abseil can be avoided if your building has one of those window cleaning gondola thingy's. A good electrician (if you can find one) will charge around 150 quid an hour, plus call out charge of course, to spend the whole afternoon connecting your cable to the cable in the gully. Only to find that the council forgot to put any cable in the gully. No problem, your new electrician friend can supply the cable at 50 quid a metre and it's only 30 metres down the gully to your parking spot. As he tries to open the gully he notices a sign saying "cannot be opened without planning permission". You phone the town hall who inform you that there is a bit of a backlog so it could take up to 6 months to sort the paperwork. Not to worry, the town hall takes on extra staff and they manage it in 5 months. You phone your electrician friend to find out that he has now left the country because he can't afford Rachels new tax bombshell. Meanwhile the local pigeons have used your 70 metre cable as nesting material. Just think of all the fun you would have missed if you'd stuck with your old diesel.
Or those of us with half a brain cell will run cables into the gulleys from a central source and when a car plugs in it will be recognized as being registered, start charging, and an invoice will be sent to the owner.
Not unlike smart meters in your house.
Job done, where's that cuppa
Nah! Maybe in Japan or South Korea but that is far too sensible for any UK town hall to get its head around.
Health & safety risk assessment (2/3 months) Planning committee (6 months) Put out to tender (3 months) Environmental impact inquiry (at least a year or more if they find a nest of the endangered black and white depressed gully beetle)
Then after all of that, bloke with a screwdriver (20 minutes)
As you probably realise the above (and my other post) is a bit (a lot) tongue in cheek. But don't forget, these days truth can be stranger than fiction. Especially in Britain.
Being sensible for a moment let's take a look at the aforementioned block of flats.
So it's 16 floors and let's say 4 flats on each floor. That's 64 flats.
At only one car per flat then that is how many chargers and dedicated parking spaces will be needed. To be fair you could say that some will not have a car, but then again some may have two.
I'm sure some blocks will have enough land but there will be many that don't.
Then there are the smaller buildings, old Victorian terraces and semi's now split into flats. Many situated on main roads with zero parking. Where would those gully's go?
Street and communal parking causes enough trouble already. Chuck chargers into the mix and it's a recipe for civil war.
All these gully's may look good in theory but out there in the real world? Where's my tin hat?
lol… okay… let me give you a suggestion/solution based on another problem the real world
You “could” do it like car parking… find a space, ring a telephone number, it would have a number on it to signify location , debit card for payment
There…. are there any dragons that would like to invest in my idea "All well and good, in theory. But at some point in the future when all cars are electric (God forbid) every parking bay and street parking spot will need either a charger or connection point to take the electric from home. There will still be (albeit shorter) cables from the charger to the car and the potential problems just keep mounting up. As I said on another thread. Injury Lawyers For You would have a bloody field day. Every man and his dog will be trying to trip up over one. Nowt like a bit of compensation. Then the local hooligans will turn cutting and disconnecting cables into a national sport. Lawless Britain? You ain't seen nothing yet. And all that is before we factor in the cost of installing 30 odd million of them. In case you hadn't noticed the country is a bit skint right now. Good intentions are all well and good but the law of unexpected consequences has a bad habit of biting them on the arse. | |||
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"But at some point in the future when all cars are electric (God forbid) every parking bay and street parking spot will need either a charger or connection point to take the electric from home." There will be a variety of solutions, not everyone will need charging every time they park. "As I said on another thread. Injury Lawyers For You would have a bloody field day. Every man and his dog will be trying to trip up over one. Nowt like a bit of compensation." There are already established mechanisms for managing things like trip hazards in public spaces and if you follow the link I posted earlier you'll see that such issues have been addressed with standard tools like insurance and inspection/maintainance obligations. "Then the local hooligans will turn cutting and disconnecting cables into a national sport. Lawless Britain? You ain't seen nothing yet." Why would charging cables be especially vulnerable? Any vandal with a key could walk along any street in the country scratching the paintwork of every car in the street. It's a real risk but it hardly ever happens. | |||
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"The BBC interview today with the transport secretary follows a report in the Telegraph, that Labour is poised to unveil £700m in subsidies for Electric cars. This includes a £25m package (equivalent to about 90p per uk dwelling) to be allocated to councils to fit "cross-pavement gullies", to make it easier for people without driveways to charge an electric vehicle (EV), alongside £63m for charging infrastructure. The current annual EV sales will increase via ZEM and new petrol and diesel cars banned from sale in the uk from 2030. With just over four years left before the ban, household budgets and public finances under pressure, will these measures be adequate to implement a far greater number of electric cars onto uk roads. And will this lead to policies on non EV low budget motorists to be forced off the roads. I live on the 16th floor of an apartment block. I'm interested to understand how cross pavement gullies will help....... You may have to rely on public chargers until they think of a viable way for you to connect to the flats. Problem I see with public chargers is the cost. Not from personal experience but from watching and reading 'what car' reports. They do comparison runs using Ev, hybrid and petrol. The EV is often the most expensive if they have to use a public charger and by quite a bit too. Having to use such chargers all the time could be very expensive. Also once petrol and diesel cars are gone how will the government make up the loss of all the tax they get from such fuel? The public EV charging costs is the one thing they may need to look at I agree.. and regulate it better, It doesn’t make sense to me that a tesla supercharger down the road charged 0.23 kw/h , whereas the bp up the road charged 0.55 kw/h Also you have the anomaly that home electricity is charged with 5% vat, whereas business electricity is charged with 20% vat… so just changing that would bring down prices "The public chargers are a definite problem to be solved. I have heard before that the Tesla ones tend to be cheaper than others but still expensive compared to home charging which many can't do. The government can reduce the VAT on the power but that's even more money lost on top of loosing the tax on petrol. Perhaps as another poster said, it will be pay per mile to get the money in and we will be no better off financially switching | |||
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" All well and good, in theory. But at some point in the future when all cars are electric (God forbid) every parking bay and street parking spot will need either a charger or connection point to take the electric from home.." Love ya… but that’s nonsense! Does every space at the moment have a Jerry can next to it at the moment just in case you need to “top up” Petrol stations will eventually go, charging stations will eventually replace them There will be a mix of both for a long long time | |||
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" All well and good, in theory. But at some point in the future when all cars are electric (God forbid) every parking bay and street parking spot will need either a charger or connection point to take the electric from home.. Love ya… but that’s nonsense! Does every space at the moment have a Jerry can next to it at the moment just in case you need to “top up” Petrol stations will eventually go, charging stations will eventually replace them There will be a mix of both for a long long time " For that charge time needs to get down to the same time a filling up a car. It takes me no more than 10 minutes to fill up at the moment. How long dose it take to charge a car. | |||
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" All well and good, in theory. But at some point in the future when all cars are electric (God forbid) every parking bay and street parking spot will need either a charger or connection point to take the electric from home.. Love ya… but that’s nonsense! Does every space at the moment have a Jerry can next to it at the moment just in case you need to “top up” Petrol stations will eventually go, charging stations will eventually replace them There will be a mix of both for a long long time " I get where you are coming from Fabio but where we stand at the moment (and for some considerable time to come) that is the reality. Of course no one has a jerry can on the side of the road (but I'll bet you would find plenty if you opened a few boots/trunks) but apart from the occasional emergency they are not really needed. If you are low on petrol/diesel one morning you stop off on the way to work and take 5 minutes to pop 20 quid in the tank. You can't do that with an EV and won't be able to for the foreseeable future. So overnight charging will be a necessity, as will the millions of home/street chargers to facilitate it. Maybe in some utopian brave new world all this will exist but we are just over 4 years off the deranged net zero ban on new petrol/diesel sales and nowhere bloody near. "Eventually" (you used the word twice) really does have a time limit. Pray tell, exactly when is "eventually?" Government money isn't going to come charging over the hill like the 7th Cavalry (like I said, Britain is skint) and waiting for the ultimate messiah, new technology, is literally waiting for God. It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. " The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. " Yes it does seem to be going that way. Here in Spain new ITV (MOT) rules on particulate filters are going to force a lot of good older cars off the road and bans on older cars in city/town centre's is being rolled out. Think I'll be needing that bus pass sooner than I thought. | |||
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"Think I'll be needing that bus pass sooner than I thought." If you haven't already, then get yourself a push bike. Or even an electric one "god forbid". It could totally change your perspective on life and extend it. | |||
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"Think I'll be needing that bus pass sooner than I thought. If you haven't already, then get yourself a push bike. Or even an electric one "god forbid". It could totally change your perspective on life and extend it." I have a push bike and use it quite often. It's fine for short runs but but I've no intention of rocking up at Vuelta Espana at my age. | |||
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"Think I'll be needing that bus pass sooner than I thought. If you haven't already, then get yourself a push bike. Or even an electric one "god forbid". It could totally change your perspective on life and extend it." bikes, powered or pedalled, are not much fun in the rain and rain would appear to be coming back into fashion. | |||
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"Think I'll be needing that bus pass sooner than I thought. If you haven't already, then get yourself a push bike. Or even an electric one "god forbid". It could totally change your perspective on life and extend it. bikes, powered or pedalled, are not much fun in the rain and rain would appear to be coming back into fashion. " Believe me, at my age they are not much fun when it's 35 in the shade either. | |||
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"I have a push bike and use it quite often. It's fine for short runs but but I've no intention of rocking up at Vuelta Espana at my age. " That's good to hear. And I totally understand that cycling in rain or temperatures above 30C with high humidity isn't much fun. I just wanted to wave the flag for cycling as most journeys in the 1 to 5 mile range don't require a car. I recently went up into the mountains above Nerja on an electric MTB and loved it btw. | |||
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"Think I'll be needing that bus pass sooner than I thought. If you haven't already, then get yourself a push bike. Or even an electric one "god forbid". It could totally change your perspective on life and extend it." It’s not a bad idea on health grounds either, less pollution and could kerb the growing 26% obesity and 37% overweight in uk adults. | |||
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"I have a push bike and use it quite often. It's fine for short runs but but I've no intention of rocking up at Vuelta Espana at my age. That's good to hear. And I totally understand that cycling in rain or temperatures above 30C with high humidity isn't much fun. I just wanted to wave the flag for cycling as most journeys in the 1 to 5 mile range don't require a car. I recently went up into the mountains above Nerja on an electric MTB and loved it btw. " To be fair and honest I don't use it this time of the year. Pretty much October to April and the odd occasion in May and September. June/July/August is just too hot and I've grown fond of the A/C in the car. | |||
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"I have a push bike and use it quite often. It's fine for short runs but but I've no intention of rocking up at Vuelta Espana at my age. That's good to hear. And I totally understand that cycling in rain or temperatures above 30C with high humidity isn't much fun. I just wanted to wave the flag for cycling as most journeys in the 1 to 5 mile range don't require a car. I recently went up into the mountains above Nerja on an electric MTB and loved it btw. To be fair and honest I don't use it this time of the year. Pretty much October to April and the odd occasion in May and September. June/July/August is just too hot and I've grown fond of the A/C in the car. "I think if you turn your air con off and wear a hair shirt instead global temperatures will be 1 degree lower 1,000 years from now. Fact. | |||
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"To be fair and honest I don't use it this time of the year. Pretty much October to April and the odd occasion in May and September. June/July/August is just too hot and I've grown fond of the A/C in the car." I'd really recommend trying out an eletric bike in Spain, if you haven't already. They are not speed limited like in the UK so you can easily do 45 kph on the flat without having to pedal (other than to select the speed you want to go by doing one or two strokes). It might be more comfortable than riding around inside a metal box even if that metal box has AC. I'm in my mid 60s but am an ex MTB XC racer so I had my machine on the lowest power setting when climbing up the mountains but I still had to stop now and then to allow my son and his mate to catch up on their non-electrics. The bike I hired only had 6 inches of front suspension and I'm used to serious full suspension so it was pretty cr*p doing technical offroad but the company I hired from apparently do a top-end machine with 8 inches up front and 6 on the back so I'm going to try that next time. | |||
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"To be fair and honest I don't use it this time of the year. Pretty much October to April and the odd occasion in May and September. June/July/August is just too hot and I've grown fond of the A/C in the car. I'd really recommend trying out an eletric bike in Spain, if you haven't already. They are not speed limited like in the UK so you can easily do 45 kph on the flat without having to pedal (other than to select the speed you want to go by doing one or two strokes). It might be more comfortable than riding around inside a metal box even if that metal box has AC. I'm in my mid 60s but am an ex MTB XC racer so I had my machine on the lowest power setting when climbing up the mountains but I still had to stop now and then to allow my son and his mate to catch up on their non-electrics. The bike I hired only had 6 inches of front suspension and I'm used to serious full suspension so it was pretty cr*p doing technical offroad but the company I hired from apparently do a top-end machine with 8 inches up front and 6 on the back so I'm going to try that next time. "8 inches up front and 6 on the back? You sound like my Mrs. | |||
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"8 inches up front and 6 on the back? You sound like my Mrs. " Chuckles. Do you hose her down and oil and polish her bits too? | |||
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"8 inches up front and 6 on the back? You sound like my Mrs. Chuckles. Do you hose her down and oil and polish her bits too?" Yep but these days I need a bit of T Cut. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. " 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving | |||
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"I wonder how many politicians ha e shares in EV manufacturers, charger fitters and battery manufacturers? " Probably a whole lot less that have or had links to the oil and gas industries | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving " No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job)" And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. | |||
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| Reply privately |
" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. " Where can I find these? In the market for a van. | |||
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| Reply privately |
" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. " Autotrader is your friend. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend. "Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off."You need to spend less time on here and look harder. I'm sure you will find some very good deals. 60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in."No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%." I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested."I'll Google it for you, wait there. | |||
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| Reply privately |
" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested.
I'll Google it for you, wait there."Google will tell you... "There isn't a 60% off deal on new electric vans. However, there are government grants and incentives that can significantly reduce the cost of purchasing an electric van. The OZEV Plug-In Van grant provides a grant of up to £5,000 or 35% of the purchase price, whichever is lower, for eligible electric vans. Additionally, some electric vans may qualify for 100% tax deductions." I appreciate the thought though. | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested.
I'll Google it for you, wait there.
Google will tell you...
"There isn't a 60% off deal on new electric vans. However, there are government grants and incentives that can significantly reduce the cost of purchasing an electric van. The OZEV Plug-In Van grant provides a grant of up to £5,000 or 35% of the purchase price, whichever is lower, for eligible electric vans. Additionally, some electric vans may qualify for 100% tax deductions."
I appreciate the thought though."These are dealer discounts because they can’t sell them. And have to buy them to meet zem YouTube. Electric Car Nage BRAND NEW ELECTRIC VANS WITH UP TO 70% DISCOUNT AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW AT A DEALER NEAR YOU!! 2 months ago. | |||
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| Reply privately |
" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested.
I'll Google it for you, wait there.
Google will tell you...
"There isn't a 60% off deal on new electric vans. However, there are government grants and incentives that can significantly reduce the cost of purchasing an electric van. The OZEV Plug-In Van grant provides a grant of up to £5,000 or 35% of the purchase price, whichever is lower, for eligible electric vans. Additionally, some electric vans may qualify for 100% tax deductions."
I appreciate the thought though.
These are dealer discounts because they can’t sell them. And have to buy them to meet zem
YouTube. Electric Car Nage
BRAND NEW ELECTRIC VANS WITH UP TO 70% DISCOUNT AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW AT A DEALER NEAR YOU!! 2 months ago. "
Thank you. I'll check it out | |||
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| Reply privately |
" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested.
I'll Google it for you, wait there.
Google will tell you...
"There isn't a 60% off deal on new electric vans. However, there are government grants and incentives that can significantly reduce the cost of purchasing an electric van. The OZEV Plug-In Van grant provides a grant of up to £5,000 or 35% of the purchase price, whichever is lower, for eligible electric vans. Additionally, some electric vans may qualify for 100% tax deductions."
I appreciate the thought though."So electric cars/vans need government (taxpayer) subsidy to encourage people to buy them. They must be so popular. NOT! | |||
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" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested.
I'll Google it for you, wait there.
Google will tell you...
"There isn't a 60% off deal on new electric vans. However, there are government grants and incentives that can significantly reduce the cost of purchasing an electric van. The OZEV Plug-In Van grant provides a grant of up to £5,000 or 35% of the purchase price, whichever is lower, for eligible electric vans. Additionally, some electric vans may qualify for 100% tax deductions."
I appreciate the thought though.
So electric cars/vans need government (taxpayer) subsidy to encourage people to buy them.
They must be so popular. NOT!"All dealers give the first one free or a sample to get you hooked. | |||
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| Reply privately |
" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested.
I'll Google it for you, wait there.
Google will tell you...
"There isn't a 60% off deal on new electric vans. However, there are government grants and incentives that can significantly reduce the cost of purchasing an electric van. The OZEV Plug-In Van grant provides a grant of up to £5,000 or 35% of the purchase price, whichever is lower, for eligible electric vans. Additionally, some electric vans may qualify for 100% tax deductions."
I appreciate the thought though.
These are dealer discounts because they can’t sell them. And have to buy them to meet zem
YouTube. Electric Car Nage
BRAND NEW ELECTRIC VANS WITH UP TO 70% DISCOUNT AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW AT A DEALER NEAR YOU!! 2 months ago.
Thank you. I'll check it out "But not a small hybrid van in sight combo / caddy size wod get me to change from dirty diesel to a cleaner petrol at a similar MPH. But lorrys are still burning more than cars anyway so all a bit pointless. This needs to start with big consumers NO. | |||
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| Reply privately |
" It's time to ditch the dream and get hold of reality. The reality is 28% of new cars sold this year must be electric, rising to 80% in 2030. Cannot see any u turn on this. And waiting for more legislation to force older and higher polluting vehicles off the road. Game over for the low budget motorist. 28% is the target… up to the end of June, so half way in.. the figure was 23% of new cars sold were EV Why is it game over for low budget motorists… a greater choice of more affordable cars are coming … the 2nd hand EV market is thriving No it's not. A few are selling at fire sale prices but bottom line is that nobody wants the bloody things. The depreciation is horrendous. (former car dealer 25 years in the job) And new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%. Where can I find these? In the market for a van. Autotrader is your friend.
Looked, can't find any new electric vans for 60% off.
You need to spend less time on here and look harder.
I'm sure you will find some very good deals.
60% off? Maybe or maybe not (that wasn't my post) but there are some very heavy discounts knocking around. Even the government is chipping in.
No, but the person I replied to said "new electric vans being discounted by up to 60%."
I genuinely need a van, I was looking at second hand. But if there are new ones goes 60% off, I'd be interested.
I'll Google it for you, wait there.
Google will tell you...
"There isn't a 60% off deal on new electric vans. However, there are government grants and incentives that can significantly reduce the cost of purchasing an electric van. The OZEV Plug-In Van grant provides a grant of up to £5,000 or 35% of the purchase price, whichever is lower, for eligible electric vans. Additionally, some electric vans may qualify for 100% tax deductions."
I appreciate the thought though.
These are dealer discounts because they can’t sell them. And have to buy them to meet zem
YouTube. Electric Car Nage
BRAND NEW ELECTRIC VANS WITH UP TO 70% DISCOUNT AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW AT A DEALER NEAR YOU!! 2 months ago.
Thank you. I'll check it out
But not a small hybrid van in sight combo / caddy size wod get me to change from dirty diesel to a cleaner petrol at a similar MPH.
But lorrys are still burning more than cars anyway so all a bit pointless. This needs to start with big consumers NO. "Both Toyota and Suzuki make a hybrid van basses on the Carrola. | |||
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" Both Toyota and Suzuki make a hybrid van basses on the Carrola." Toyota's commercial vans in Europe are pretty much Renault/Stellantis. Suzuki is made by Suzuki, nothing to do with the Corolla. | |||
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"With a faltering economy, banks and now Tories watering down net zero. The prospect of climate change deniers Reform being influential in the next government. ... " Don't forget the population growth deniers. They ate not innocent. Oh, hang on, the more people who are born, the more people to sell things to and then screw taxes out of them! | |||
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"With a faltering economy, banks and now Tories watering down net zero. The prospect of climate change deniers Reform being influential in the next government. Wondering if this will be pushed back for a time, and same with energy performance standards on rented homes. They won’t be able to upgrade 2.5 million occupied homes in 3 years " Net zero isn’t going to happen generally. It’s just a massive game of pass the parcel. Each government says it will happen, hopes for the best and does what it can to keep it going while it drags on the economy. With the usual platitudes: “Leading the world” “Five minutes to midnight” “Green jobs” They then leave office, breathe a sigh of relief that it didn’t fall apart on their watch, and are just grateful that they weren’t the ones that had to own up to it being a colossal waste of time and money. Then they pass the parcel on to the next government with a snigger and watch what happens from the back row, hopefully from their office at the UN working for some climate change quango or big bank. | |||
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