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" The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there " Provide aid to the people of Gaza, 1 ton, total irrelevance on the scale of what is required, pretty meaningless. Raise awareness, because obviously this isn’t in the news on a daily basis and nobody is aware of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that has been ongoing for nearly 80 years. It’s self promotion. | |||
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" The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there Provide aid to the people of Gaza, 1 ton, total irrelevance on the scale of what is required, pretty meaningless. Raise awareness, because obviously this isn’t in the news on a daily basis and nobody is aware of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that has been ongoing for nearly 80 years. It’s self promotion. " Let's be honest, it was a PR stunt, but even so Israel seem content to ignore the rules of international waters. They clearly don't want scrutiny of their actions in Gaza, and it begs the question why not. | |||
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" The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there Provide aid to the people of Gaza, 1 ton, total irrelevance on the scale of what is required, pretty meaningless. Raise awareness, because obviously this isn’t in the news on a daily basis and nobody is aware of the Israeli/Palestinian conflict that has been ongoing for nearly 80 years. It’s self promotion. Let's be honest, it was a PR stunt, but even so Israel seem content to ignore the rules of international waters. They clearly don't want scrutiny of their actions in Gaza, and it begs the question why not." Probably for all the reasons that are relayed too us via news reels featuring eye witness accounts from foreign aid workers and medics who are in Gaza. The notion that people are ‘unaware’ of the situation is laughable. | |||
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" Western governments need to take notice and individuals who do nothing " The UK RAF has done 518 sortees for the IDF identifying targets to bomb (56k dead) Our taxes paid for this. The USA has provided over 100,000 tonnes of munitions to kill the 56k | |||
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"She has said that she has been “k*dnapped” and asked Sweden for help. Rumours are that Sweden have told Israel to keep her "Pre recorded apparently, reported that IDF made them throw phones into the sea. | |||
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"The yacht has been illegally intercepted in international waters " Whoever told you that is ignorant of international maritime law and conventions. Given that the boat was flying a Palestinian flag into an active warzone, an organiser on it was someone who called for death to Israel (and the US, and victory to Islam) and was an outspoken supporter of terrorism, then Israel is well within its rights to assume that its passage is "not innocent". If your issue with Israel is that its blockage of Gaza is illegal, that's a great debate to have. But good luck getting this Madleen case heard by any court. " and all crew, who are unarmed, forcefully apprehended with the intention of taking them to an Israeli port for detention. " Where else would they be taken? Left to float? It seems as if the intentions of the Israelis is to run a showing of October 7th attacks and send them to their respective countries ASAP. It will be interesting to see what they do with the terrorist-supporting ones (although Israel probably doesn't want the aggravation, unless they're looking to send Brazil a message). " The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza " Hahaha! Haha! Ha! " and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there. " The whole idea was to be stopped by the Israelis, as a PR stunt for those onboard. Good for them - they got exactly what they wanted! " Western governments need to take notice " You mean they haven't? Or you just don't agree with what they're doing, so you assume they haven't noticed? " and individuals who do nothing , or worse suggest that the crew are killed as has been suggested by individuals on this very forum, " Because those were serious calls for murder. Well, don't be an individual who does nothing, then. Call the police and report those on this forum! Or is spaffing confected outrage at them on here doing something? " should reflect on if they would say the same if it were their son or daughter that were protesting and trying to raise awareness of the heinous crimes bring carried out by Israel against the people of Gaza. " Perhaps a long conversation about not going on a performative PR cruise. " Rather than mock those who are trying to do the right thing, " What right thing? Your definition of right thing? " act and write to your government to tell them to stop supporting Israel and to stop this genocide. " It isn't genocide. That term has been overused to become almost meaningless over the past two years, thanks to posts like this one. Thankfully, it still has a definition. It may be many other horrible and terrible things, but the test for genocide has not been demonstrated. " Be in the right side of humanity and do what you can to stop this. " Or educate yourself. | |||
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"The yacht has been illegally intercepted in international waters Given that the boat was flying a Palestinian flag into an active warzone, an organiser on it was someone who called for death to Israel (and the US, and victory to Islam) and was an outspoken supporter of terrorism." IDF seem to have handled it very well. | |||
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"an organiser on it was someone who called for death to Israel (and the US, and victory to Islam) and was an outspoken supporter of terrorism" On the previous thread you said there's video evidence of this. Could you post a link please. | |||
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"an organiser on it was someone who called for death to Israel (and the US, and victory to Islam) and was an outspoken supporter of terrorism On the previous thread you said there's video evidence of this. Could you post a link please. " No. But you can Google it. Try: Thiago Avila "Death to Israel" or something similar. It is unlikely to be posted by any neutral media until verified, and will likely be posted first by NY Post, Fox News and Daily Mail (and never posted by The Guardian and Al Jazeera), but expect it to be aired should his case warrant more attention. | |||
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"an organiser on it was someone who called for death to Israel (and the US, and victory to Islam) and was an outspoken supporter of terrorism On the previous thread you said there's video evidence of this. Could you post a link please. " The Sun covered him (without the video) here: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/35269856/thunberg-gaza-flotilla-nazi-rant/ | |||
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"No. But you can Google it. Try: Thiago Avila "Death to Israel" or something similar. It is unlikely to be posted by any neutral media until verified, and will likely be posted first by NY Post, Fox News and Daily Mail (and never posted by The Guardian and Al Jazeera), but expect it to be aired should his case warrant more attention." I've already tried to find such a video and it doesn't seem to exist. | |||
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"International waters is a huge no no! Well at least they didn’t fire drones and missiles on them this time But still… international waters is going to cause a huge problem diplomatically " Would you happen to know exactly where it was intercepted? That's proving hard to find. | |||
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"No. But you can Google it. Try: Thiago Avila "Death to Israel" or something similar. It is unlikely to be posted by any neutral media until verified, and will likely be posted first by NY Post, Fox News and Daily Mail (and never posted by The Guardian and Al Jazeera), but expect it to be aired should his case warrant more attention. I've already tried to find such a video and it doesn't seem to exist." I typed what the poster suggested into google and the very first post is this video on X. You're either not trying very hard or you're being deliberately obstructive. From the tone of your previous posts, I'd say it was the latter.  | |||
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"cerebrally deficient" What does this mean? | |||
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"cerebrally deficient What does this mean? " It's one of those things, where "if your have to ask..."  | |||
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"cerebrally deficient What does this mean? It's one of those things, where "if your have to ask..." "It's one of those things that has to be asked and challenged | |||
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"I typed what the poster suggested into google and the very first post is this video on X. You're either not trying very hard or you're being deliberately obstructive. From the tone of your previous posts, I'd say it was the latter." Fair enough. I was just asking for a link. I searched yesterday using very similar search terms and and couldn't find it. | |||
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"The yacht has been illegally intercepted in international waters and all crew, who are unarmed, forcefully apprehended with the intention of taking them to an Israeli port for detention. The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there. Western governments need to take notice and individuals who do nothing , or worse suggest that the crew are killed as has been suggested by individuals on this very forum, should reflect on if they would say the same if it were their son or daughter that were protesting and trying to raise awareness of the heinous crimes bring carried out by Israel against the people of Gaza. Rather than mock those who are trying to do the right thing, act and write to your government to tell them to stop supporting Israel and to stop this genocide. Be in the right side of humanity and do what you can to stop this. " Have you got evidence it was in international waters? As far as I am aware there area of the med doesn't have any? Each zone is controlled by Israel, Lebanon,Egypt turkey | |||
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"It isn't genocide. That term has been overused to become almost meaningless over the past two years, thanks to posts like this one. Thankfully, it still has a definition. It may be many other horrible and terrible things, but the test for genocide has not been demonstrated." Sadly, the official definition of genocide has been so watered down over the years that it now arguably covers shouting "go home" at foreigners. | |||
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"The yacht has been illegally intercepted in international waters and all crew, who are unarmed, forcefully apprehended with the intention of taking them to an Israeli port for detention. The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there. Western governments need to take notice and individuals who do nothing , or worse suggest that the crew are killed as has been suggested by individuals on this very forum, should reflect on if they would say the same if it were their son or daughter that were protesting and trying to raise awareness of the heinous crimes bring carried out by Israel against the people of Gaza. Rather than mock those who are trying to do the right thing, act and write to your government to tell them to stop supporting Israel and to stop this genocide. Be in the right side of humanity and do what you can to stop this. Have you got evidence it was in international waters? As far as I am aware there area of the med doesn't have any? Each zone is controlled by Israel, Lebanon,Egypt turkey " Territorial waters extend to 12 nautical miles. Beyond that, you might find Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ), which you might be thinking of? | |||
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"I typed what the poster suggested into google and the very first post is this video on X. You're either not trying very hard or you're being deliberately obstructive. From the tone of your previous posts, I'd say it was the latter. Fair enough. I was just asking for a link. I searched yesterday using very similar search terms and and couldn't find it." Only certain sites are allowed to be linked on Fab. Here are the forum rules https://www.fabswingers.com/content/forum-rules | |||
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"It isn't genocide. That term has been overused to become almost meaningless over the past two years, thanks to posts like this one. Thankfully, it still has a definition. It may be many other horrible and terrible things, but the test for genocide has not been demonstrated. Sadly, the official definition of genocide has been so watered down over the years that it now arguably covers shouting "go home" at foreigners." Just thinking the word “foreigner” is probably now classed as a genocide by the lefties | |||
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"The yacht has been illegally intercepted in international waters and all crew, who are unarmed, forcefully apprehended with the intention of taking them to an Israeli port for detention. The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there. Western governments need to take notice and individuals who do nothing , or worse suggest that the crew are killed as has been suggested by individuals on this very forum, should reflect on if they would say the same if it were their son or daughter that were protesting and trying to raise awareness of the heinous crimes bring carried out by Israel against the people of Gaza. Rather than mock those who are trying to do the right thing, act and write to your government to tell them to stop supporting Israel and to stop this genocide. Be in the right side of humanity and do what you can to stop this. Have you got evidence it was in international waters? As far as I am aware there area of the med doesn't have any? Each zone is controlled by Israel, Lebanon,Egypt turkey Territorial waters extend to 12 nautical miles. Beyond that, you might find Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ), which you might be thinking of?" I have looked up territorial waters. Looking at Wikipedia. There are no international waters in the med | |||
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"International waters is a huge no no! Well at least they didn’t fire drones and missiles on them this time But still… international waters is going to cause a huge problem diplomatically " Please provide some evidence of your claims | |||
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"International waters is a huge no no! Well at least they didn’t fire drones and missiles on them this time But still… international waters is going to cause a huge problem diplomatically " Palestinian flag displayed and a Hamas supporter on board. I’m surprised it’s still afloat | |||
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" I have looked up territorial waters. Looking at Wikipedia. There are no international waters in the med " Then you saw this: "International waters" is not a defined term in international law. It is an informal term, which sometimes refers to waters beyond the "territorial sea" of any country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters | |||
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"International waters is a huge no no! Well at least they didn’t fire drones and missiles on them this time But still… international waters is going to cause a huge problem diplomatically Would you happen to know exactly where it was intercepted? That's proving hard to find." Both the boat and the IDF have confirmed it was intercepted outside of Israel’s territorial and maritime waters There would be no point in the IDF even disputing this as there was a live camera on the boat.. and all you would have to do is match up the time the Israeli navy boarded the ship with the time the transponder signal was turned off. | |||
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"International waters is a huge no no! Well at least they didn’t fire drones and missiles on them this time But still… international waters is going to cause a huge problem diplomatically Would you happen to know exactly where it was intercepted? That's proving hard to find. Both the boat and the IDF have confirmed it was intercepted outside of Israel’s territorial and maritime waters There would be no point in the IDF even disputing this as there was a live camera on the boat.. and all you would have to do is match up the time the Israeli navy boarded the ship with the time the transponder signal was turned off." Whatever the legality I doubt Israel give a toss | |||
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"So know-nothing Thunberg and her posse sail to Gaza taking lots of selfies on the way. Get stopped and arrested. Get a free sandwich, watch a video and get deported. Still no peace in the Middle East! Who knew this is what would happen!? Though Thunberg has got her face in the media a bit. She does seem to have been pretty absent recently." Cause and effect. | |||
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" I have looked up territorial waters. Looking at Wikipedia. There are no international waters in the med Then you saw this: "International waters" is not a defined term in international law. It is an informal term, which sometimes refers to waters beyond the "territorial sea" of any country. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_waters" There are from what I can tell. Not international waters in the med. They are defined as EEZ and territorial | |||
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"Shock horror, a boat carrying supporters of Israel's enemies has been intercepted before making it to Gaza. Did anyone think this would turn out any other way? I would love to hear what the alternative thinking was. " That boatful of war tourists so dim, if they were at nova music _estival on 7/10/23 they’d have met the their fate at the hands of Hamas | |||
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"International waters is a huge no no! Well at least they didn’t fire drones and missiles on them this time But still… international waters is going to cause a huge problem diplomatically " lol i think its funny that you belive Israel give a shit what the rest of the world think, hasnt the last year and a half taught you they dont care what the international community think about them | |||
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"Shock horror, a boat carrying supporters of Israel's enemies has been intercepted before making it to Gaza. Did anyone think this would turn out any other way? I would love to hear what the alternative thinking was. " i think they should count themselves lucky that israel didnt deal with them they way they have dealt with some others who have tried breaching the blockade | |||
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"Well, it seems that Sweden is in no hurry to have Greta back. Foreign minister Maria Malmer Stenergard seems to think there's no need for them to get involved, and has some mildly acerbic words for her supporters... Who keep clogging up the phone lines so Swedes overseas in genuine need of assistance are forced into longer queues. "Israel has, as we assess, certain possibilities to esc.ort this ship in accordance with international law" "A great responsibility rests on those who choose to travel contrary to the advice given to a place" "It is quite dangerous to run a campaign that means that the Ministry of Foreign Affairs' consular hotline is called down" https://www.svt.se/nyheter/utrikes/maria-malmer-stenergard-kritiserar-aktivister-efter-gretas-gripande" Basically a diplomatic way of saying , “what the fuck did you expect, sort your own shit out”. | |||
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"I'm hoping that, once they've shown the footage from Oct 7th, they take them on a tour of the 'apartheid state' and then into Gaza to show them how it's really unfolding over there. Maybe teach some proper history along the way too, before billing them in full for the plane ticket back home. 😎" It would certainly be some great tv watching Thunberg having a discussion with the enlightened women’s libbers in Hamas. She hasn’t got a clue what she’s talking about and they’d have to sit there grinning pretending to care what a woman thinks. | |||
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"It would certainly be some great tv watching Thunberg having a discussion with the enlightened women’s libbers in Hamas. She hasn’t got a clue what she’s talking about and they’d have to sit there grinning pretending to care what a woman thinks." In all honesty, I see that autistic vulnerability in her face and wonder why nobody's actually tried to help her reign in her obsessions rather than mould her into a mouthpiece. One of the things with autism is the ability to become so blinded by an obsession that it takes one hell of a wrench to get back to reality - if you're lucky you end up very knowledgeable and able to store huge amounts of data that can benefit others. But conversely, there's potential to go down some seriously harmful rabbit holes; conspiracy theories, predatory behaviour, extreme politics (left and right) and influenced by all kinds of dangerous ideas. As for her comrades on the boat, well I don't know enough about them to comment. | |||
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"... then she has to endure the total horror of having to spend time in France. At least she will know what a real hell hole looks like." Based on your own personal experience? | |||
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"I’d have put her on the next oil tanker going to Sweden through the Suez Canal " I’ll cut her some slack on climate change. But this stunt is beyond me. | |||
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"I’d have put her on the next oil tanker going to Sweden through the Suez Canal I’ll cut her some slack on climate change. But this stunt is beyond me. " I have no issues with her personally, she’s just like any teenage girl, she thinks the world revolves around her. As you say, this was purely a PR stunt to get back on tv. Very very sad | |||
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"The yacht has been illegally intercepted in international waters and all crew, who are unarmed, forcefully apprehended with the intention of taking them to an Israeli port for detention. The yacht was sailing in international waters to provide aid to the people of Gaza and to raise awareness of the genocide that is happening there. Western governments need to take notice and individuals who do nothing , or worse suggest that the crew are killed as has been suggested by individuals on this very forum, should reflect on if they would say the same if it were their son or daughter that were protesting and trying to raise awareness of the heinous crimes bring carried out by Israel against the people of Gaza. Rather than mock those who are trying to do the right thing, act and write to your government to tell them to stop supporting Israel and to stop this genocide. Be in the right side of humanity and do what you can to stop this. " She claims she was kid napped from the high seas, at last someone agrees with myself I have been saying this for like,,, ages,, the people coming from France in boats are being kid napped by the uk government and not allowed to leave England or carry on with their journey to Scotland.  | |||
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"she’s just like any teenage girl, she thinks the world revolves around her." Except she's 22 and not a teenager. | |||
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"she’s just like any teenage girl, she thinks the world revolves around her. Except she's 22 and not a teenager." Still acting like one. | |||
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" ... Territorial waters extend to 12 nautical miles. Beyond that, you might find Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ), which you might be thinking of?" Doesn't it make one feel proud to be British. To think that miles are used internationally and not kilometres. We are not finished yet by any stretch! | |||
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" ... Territorial waters extend to 12 nautical miles. Beyond that, you might find Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ), which you might be thinking of? Doesn't it make one feel proud to be British. To think that miles are used internationally and not kilometres. We are not finished yet by any stretch! " Nautical Miles | |||
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" ... Territorial waters extend to 12 nautical miles. Beyond that, you might find Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ), which you might be thinking of? Doesn't it make one feel proud to be British. To think that miles are used internationally and not kilometres. We are not finished yet by any stretch! " There is a reason that nautical miles are still used in navigation and it's nothing to do with British pride. It's pretty much dictated by geometry, maths and simplicity. One nautical mile is equal to one minute of latitude. 60 minutes is one degree, 360 degrees is a circle. In the earths case the 360 is split into 2 x 180. North and south. While it could still be done in kilometres it would be a navigators nightmare. | |||
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" ... Territorial waters extend to 12 nautical miles. Beyond that, you might find Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ), which you might be thinking of? Doesn't it make one feel proud to be British. To think that miles are used internationally and not kilometres. We are not finished yet by any stretch! There is a reason that nautical miles are still used in navigation and it's nothing to do with British pride. It's pretty much dictated by geometry, maths and simplicity. One nautical mile is equal to one minute of latitude. 60 minutes is one degree, 360 degrees is a circle. In the earths case the 360 is split into 2 x 180. North and south. While it could still be done in kilometres it would be a navigators nightmare." Thanks for the reminder. It gives me added pleasure realising that our own territorial waters actually extend further than twelve measly statute miles! Luckily for modern navigators, life has been immeasurably simplified by the widespread use of GPS. Don't forget, though, that metric distance measurement has a basis of physical fact which can be checked when needed. | |||
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"she’s just like any teenage girl, she thinks the world revolves around her. Except she's 22 and not a teenager. Still acting like one. " I don’t think there is many 22-year-olds could sum up the reasons the world ignores Gaza like she just did in 40 seconds. | |||
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" ... Territorial waters extend to 12 nautical miles. Beyond that, you might find Exclusive Economic Zones (EEZ), which you might be thinking of? Doesn't it make one feel proud to be British. To think that miles are used internationally and not kilometres. We are not finished yet by any stretch! There is a reason that nautical miles are still used in navigation and it's nothing to do with British pride. It's pretty much dictated by geometry, maths and simplicity. One nautical mile is equal to one minute of latitude. 60 minutes is one degree, 360 degrees is a circle. In the earths case the 360 is split into 2 x 180. North and south. While it could still be done in kilometres it would be a navigators nightmare. Thanks for the reminder. It gives me added pleasure realising that our own territorial waters actually extend further than twelve measly statute miles! Luckily for modern navigators, life has been immeasurably simplified by the widespread use of GPS. Don't forget, though, that metric distance measurement has a basis of physical fact which can be checked when needed. " In a previous life when I used to go wreck fishing I always used to set my old "Navstar" Decca set to kms (Decca along with Racal being the land based forerunners of GPS). Being the smaller unit it was a tad more accurate. | |||
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"Greta is used by the media as a totem for your hatred, a focal point for all that you disagree with. Once we start tk see others in this light it's difficult to stop. It spreads out and you seek an opposition focal point closer to home. The vegan in the office perhaps? The relative you know votes Green, or the person living in your street transitioning. Once we start seeing people as walking ideologues or moving bags of 'woke' then we lose a part of ourselves. Most think they've avoided the trap but if you've commented on this or the other GT thread you've already taken the bait. Don't sell out to media companies profiting on your hate. Left, right, centerist - they're all at it. Think. Rise above" Thunberg’s rapacious family allowed her to be used as a puppet by the globalists who needed a child to front their Net Zero agenda (“Think of your children’s’ future”!). They needed a youth symbol to bash the West around the head to achieve more compliance on the stumbling climate change policies. She fitted the bill and her grifting family were happy for her to be used. Why else would anyone listen to the “opinions” of a school dropout who literally knows nothing about the subject she is talking about? The same goes for Gaza. Having spent years spouting destructive rubbish about climate change (which she has zero technical expertise in) she has now switched to the Middle East (which she has zero technical expertise in). | |||
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"Perhaps people should realise that Greta is NOT the story - the genocide of the people of Gaza IS the story. " Reportedly 75% of Gazans supported 7 October attacks. Reap what you sow. | |||
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"Perhaps people should realise that Greta is NOT the story - the genocide of the people of Gaza IS the story. " You should tell that to the OP who chose to keep this thread name, rather than call it something different...? | |||
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"she’s just like any teenage girl, she thinks the world revolves around her. Except she's 22 and not a teenager. Still acting like one. I don’t think there is many 22-year-olds could sum up the reasons the world ignores Gaza like she just did in 40 seconds." It is difficult to explain why Gaza is ignored, because it is possibly one of the biggest agenda items, from South Africa to Canada to France. It is not ignored, but it is definitely being failed by most of the world. What would be more impressive is for her to explain why other much more devastating tragedies, in terms of proportion and scale, such as 150k+ dead from famine and deprivation in Yemen, or the 532k+ infants dead from malnutrition in Sudan (plus the rest of the casualties), are actually ignored. If she could explain why her sole focus is on Gaza, to the exclusion of arguably bigger problems and established genocides, then that would be worthy of respect. | |||
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"When did Israel become a country and what was it before?" 1. 1948 2. A British protectorate created by the League of Nations, mandated to set up a Jewish homeland. Before that it was an administrative region of the Ottoman Empire, formally called Southern Syria. | |||
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"she’s just like any teenage girl, she thinks the world revolves around her. Except she's 22 and not a teenager. Still acting like one. I don’t think there is many 22-year-olds could sum up the reasons the world ignores Gaza like she just did in 40 seconds. It is difficult to explain why Gaza is ignored, because it is possibly one of the biggest agenda items, from South Africa to Canada to France. It is not ignored, but it is definitely being failed by most of the world. What would be more impressive is for her to explain why other much more devastating tragedies, in terms of proportion and scale, such as 150k+ dead from famine and deprivation in Yemen, or the 532k+ infants dead from malnutrition in Sudan (plus the rest of the casualties), are actually ignored. If she could explain why her sole focus is on Gaza, to the exclusion of arguably bigger problems and established genocides, then that would be worthy of respect." You expect an awful lot for a 22 year old! | |||
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"When did Israel become a country and what was it before?" Nobody care to tackle the actual problem? | |||
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"When did Israel become a country and what was it before? Nobody care to tackle the actual problem?" I answered you above; 1948 and a British protectorate of the League of Nations. Prior to that it was an administrative region of the Ottoman Empire (also not Arab). There was never an independent country called Palestine. ___________________________________________ I believe the problem stems from the misapplication of International Law and the utter shit show created by the British by the way they handled their Mandate. Prior to the formal start of the Mandate (1923), the Palestine region included the area we now call Jordan (then Transjordan). This was arguably the original two-state solution as the largest portion of the region was unexpectedly handed over to Arab control. Today 75% of the population remain as Palestinian Arabs - with an immigrant royal family (The Hashemites) at the helm. The borders of the remaining area haven't been changed - Israel, Gaza and The West Bank (Judea and Samaria) all remain within the defined legal boundaries of the Mandate, with no subsequent law ever replacing it. The 1947 partition plan was merely a recommendation, not accepted - and no other attempt at creating a different state has ever been accepted. UN General Assembly resolutions are only ever recommendations anyway. So, the only area that is arguably occupied is Golan, but as it is now annexed, and most people living there seems to be happy, it's largely a non-issue. This means the other so-called 'occupied' territories are still Israel's sovereign territory, with the Arab population further radicalised by Islamist terror groups who are using them as pawns. So, rather than fight for another unworkable two-state solution - or put up with the insufferable condemnation of all the nations who had previously let down the Jews - it needs to find a way to remove the terrorist element to ensure its survival and safety. And that's what its doing in Gaza. | |||
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"the genocide of the people of Gaza IS the story." It's a story that belongs in the fiction section. | |||
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"This means the other so-called 'occupied' territories are still Israel's sovereign territory, with the Arab population further radicalised by Islamist terror groups who are using them as pawns." Israel does not class the occupied territories as sovereign Israeli territory because if it did it would either have to give the population of the territories citizenship or accept that it isn't a democracy. The Israeli government won't do either so it tries to maintain an ambiguous position hoping that eventually it can remove that population. | |||
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"Israel does not class the occupied territories as sovereign Israeli territory because if it did it would either have to give the population of the territories citizenship or accept that it isn't a democracy." It depends on which Israeli you speak to - it gets complicated because they need to retain a Jewish majority or face annihilation by Arab states and Iran. After the 1948 war, Arabs remaining in Israel had to wait quite some time before they were given voting rights. Not unreasonable considering the historic ties to Nazism. "The Israeli government won't do either so it tries to maintain an ambiguous position hoping that eventually it can remove that population." Yes, in order to protect the Jewish homeland, they will eventually need to be moved. Considering the failure of the two-state solution idea, and the sheer amount of land available in the other 22 Arabised countries, population transfer, as uncomfortable as this may be, still seems to be the best way forward. | |||
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"The reality is that Israel would not face annihilation if the Israeli governement changed its policy and sought a genuine two-state solution. The reality is that a two-state solution is the only way for Israel to become a normal country with both security and a Jewish majority. Of course you will say that the two-state solution has already been offered and the Palestinians refused it and preferred to continue the conflict. This is not true. The only "state" that the Israeli government has ever offered the Palestinians is one where Israel controls the borders, controls the airspace, controls foreign policy and controls natural resources including water. A "state" that is patrolled by the IDF and has IDF bases inide it. The Palestinians have offered to accept demilitarisation and external third-party troops to police them inside their nascent state. They've offered a very long transition period where they would accept limited sovereignty and only gain the same rights as Israel after a long period of peace. It is the Israeli government who have refused a two-state solution." Explain to me how a 2 state solution works | |||
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"What exactly did Thunberg achieve with this stunt? Did she "raise awareness"? Was the world not "aware" of the conflict before she went there? All she did was promote her own "brand" onto the situation and raise her profile again, leading to more lucrative book deals and paid tv interviews. She's a professional grifter with a reported net worth of nearly £2 million. Not bad for a 22 year old school drop-out. Her family - an alcoholic mother, dead-beat father and porn star/pop singer wannabe sister seem to be doing ok off the back of her fame, so that's good "The folk on that boat were given the opportunity of a quick deportarion without being detaoned to go through the legal system. Greta signed her papers as did others. Some of the people didn't. The fact Greta was so quick to sign shows how principled she really is. The spoilt little attention seeker, crying about her own rights when kids are being blown to bits. | |||
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"What exactly did Thunberg achieve with this stunt? Did she "raise awareness"? Was the world not "aware" of the conflict before she went there? All she did was promote her own "brand" onto the situation and raise her profile again, leading to more lucrative book deals and paid tv interviews. She's a professional grifter with a reported net worth of nearly £2 million. Not bad for a 22 year old school drop-out. Her family - an alcoholic mother, dead-beat father and porn star/pop singer wannabe sister seem to be doing ok off the back of her fame, so that's good
The folk on that boat were given the opportunity of a quick deportarion without being detaoned to go through the legal system.
Greta signed her papers as did others. Some of the people didn't. The fact Greta was so quick to sign shows how principled she really is. The spoilt little attention seeker, crying about her own rights when kids are being blown to bits."According to news reports, on her flight home from Israel, the pilot announced 'We want to thank our security forces and the IDF for protecting our homeland and wish for the swift return of all hostages'. She apparently covered her head with a blanket during the announcement. Hilarious | |||
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"well fair play, her protest is still getting the limelight and is proven to be 100% effective at keeping people talking about it...." Yes, but are they talking about it in the way she wants, or is she turning people away from her position, out of spite for her? | |||
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"The reality is that Israel would not face annihilation if the Israeli governement changed its policy and sought a genuine two-state solution. The reality is that a two-state solution is the only way for Israel to become a normal country with both security and a Jewish majority. Of course you will say that the two-state solution has already been offered and the Palestinians refused it and preferred to continue the conflict. This is not true. The only "state" that the Israeli government has ever offered the Palestinians is one where Israel controls the borders, controls the airspace, controls foreign policy and controls natural resources including water. A "state" that is patrolled by the IDF and has IDF bases inide it. The Palestinians have offered to accept demilitarisation and external third-party troops to police them inside their nascent state. They've offered a very long transition period where they would accept limited sovereignty and only gain the same rights as Israel after a long period of peace. It is the Israeli government who have refused a two-state solution." no chance of a two state solution after october 7th,israel are pretty clear what the solution is no for gaza yhey are ethnically cleansing it and it will become part of israel, once that is achived they will do the same in the west bank | |||
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"well fair play, her protest is still getting the limelight and is proven to be 100% effective at keeping people talking about it. excellect PR work Ms Thunberg "Fair play? Come off it, she's a self-serving Thik Tokker only out to promote her own brand of "caring". And exactly where are people NOT talking about the ME situation? There are loads of threads on here and on other soash meeds sites, daily news and tv articles. What exactly has she done on this occasion other than promote herself? The amount of food she took was laughably insignificant, she travelled across on a diesel powered boat pumping shit into the ocean and the atmosphere and caved in and signed the papers the very second she was offered a free flight home. Let's see if she donates any of her profits from the inevitable tv and news appearances she'll be making off the back of this farcical charade. | |||
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"well fair play, her protest is still getting the limelight and is proven to be 100% effective at keeping people talking about it.... Yes, but are they talking about it in the way she wants, or is she turning people away from her position, out of spite for her?" who cares, it's keeping the story in the spotlight so it's working wether the israeli extremists like it or not. genius PR coup for Greta | |||
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"well fair play, her protest is still getting the limelight and is proven to be 100% effective at keeping people talking about it.... Yes, but are they talking about it in the way she wants, or is she turning people away from her position, out of spite for her? who cares, it's keeping the story in the spotlight so it's working wether the israeli extremists like it or not. genius PR coup for Greta "For her, yes. It's great PR. | |||
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"well fair play, her protest is still getting the limelight and is proven to be 100% effective at keeping people talking about it.... Yes, but are they talking about it in the way she wants, or is she turning people away from her position, out of spite for her? who cares, it's keeping the story in the spotlight so it's working wether the israeli extremists like it or not. genius PR coup for Greta
For her, yes. It's great PR."you just can't help yourself from doing her job for her by posting can you | |||
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"It's very noticeable that lefties want you to listen to this little white girl, but ignore the little white girls in places like Rotherham & Rochdale "Since you brought this up - why don't you do something about it? Perhaps protest or see you local MP or even open up a new thread about it! It is easy to criticise others by being a keyboard warrior so do something about it! Meanwhile Greta seems to be raising awareness about the plight in Gaza - as can be seen here as even those who would rather discuss little white girls in Rotherham and Rochdale can't help but to throw their tuppence into the hat! | |||
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"It's very noticeable that lefties want you to listen to this little white girl, but ignore the little white girls in places like Rotherham & Rochdale
Since you brought this up - why don't you do something about it?
Perhaps protest or see you local MP or even open up a new thread about it!
It is easy to criticise others by being a keyboard warrior so do something about it!
Meanwhile Greta seems to be raising awareness about the plight in Gaza - as can be seen here as even those who would rather discuss little white girls in Rotherham and Rochdale can't help but to throw their tuppence into the hat!"So you are mocking people for worrying caring about the plight of little white girls being subjected to horrific crimes, what happened to to those little white girls repeatedly would be classed as serious war crime if they did it to civilians during war, and all you get from the left is a shoulder shrug. | |||
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" So you are mocking people for worrying caring about the plight of little white girls being subjected to horrific crimes, what happened to to those little white girls repeatedly would be classed as serious war crime if they did it to civilians during war, and all you get from the left is a shoulder shrug. " I don't believe the other poster has mocked anyone. They have pointed out that reference to the terrible situation in Rotherham et al is not relevant to this thread, and they have suggested that the person who introduced the new topic maybe take some action themselves. | |||
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" So you are mocking people for worrying caring about the plight of little white girls being subjected to horrific crimes, what happened to to those little white girls repeatedly would be classed as serious war crime if they did it to civilians during war, and all you get from the left is a shoulder shrug. I don't believe the other poster has mocked anyone. They have pointed out that reference to the terrible situation in Rotherham et al is not relevant to this thread, and they have suggested that the person who introduced the new topic maybe take some action themselves. "Read the oped. | |||
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" So you are mocking people for worrying caring about the plight of little white girls being subjected to horrific crimes, what happened to to those little white girls repeatedly would be classed as serious war crime if they did it to civilians during war, and all you get from the left is a shoulder shrug. I don't believe the other poster has mocked anyone. They have pointed out that reference to the terrible situation in Rotherham et al is not relevant to this thread, and they have suggested that the person who introduced the new topic maybe take some action themselves.
Read the oped."? | |||
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"It's very noticeable that lefties want you to listen to this little white girl, but ignore the little white girls in places like Rotherham & Rochdale
Since you brought this up - why don't you do something about it?
Perhaps protest or see you local MP or even open up a new thread about it!
It is easy to criticise others by being a keyboard warrior so do something about it!
Meanwhile Greta seems to be raising awareness about the plight in Gaza - as can be seen here as even those who would rather discuss little white girls in Rotherham and Rochdale can't help but to throw their tuppence into the hat!"I have done something about it. I've raised awareness on this thread and people are talking about it. Job done. Now, where's my Nobel prize? | |||
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"Explain to me how a 2 state solution works " Perhaps you should read up on the history, which goes back to the 1982 Arab Summit in Fez when the PLO first committed to the recognition of Israel and a two-state solution. There's a four day UN conference beginning on Tuesday where various new proposals will be discussed in the hope of ending the conflict. There will no doubt be a thread here on Fab specific to this subject, so we can hopefully talk about it properly and fully on-topic then. | |||
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"The only "state" that the Israeli government has ever offered the Palestinians is one where Israel controls the borders, controls the airspace, controls foreign policy and controls natural resources including water. A "state" that is patrolled by the IDF and has IDF bases inide it. The Palestinians have offered to accept demilitarisation and external third-party troops to police them inside their nascent state. They've offered a very long transition period where they would accept limited sovereignty and only gain the same rights as Israel after a long period of peace. It is the Israeli government who have refused a two-state solution." How else is this expected to happen considering the history of violence and proximity to Ben-Gurion airport? Seriously, look what happened when Gaza was given a shot at independence. It took many years to give citizenship to Israeli Arabs (1966 actually), so to hand over control of airspace and security won't happen overnight in anyone's wildest dreams. They need a period of denazification - they still need to be cleansed of the inheritance that still lingers from the reign of the Grand Mufti. Would it have been reasonable to offer Germany full independence the moment the Nazis surrendered? | |||
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"There's a four day UN conference beginning on Tuesday where various new proposals will be discussed in the hope of ending the conflict." They need to get rid of Francesca Albanese for this to be taken seriously - she's seriously antisemitic and has recently been found to have lied about her legal qualifications. | |||
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" Seriously, look what happened when Gaza was given a shot at independence. " aye, a right wing extremist murdered his own prime minister | |||
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"aye, a right wing extremist murdered his own prime minister " If you're talking about Rabin, that was in 1995 - years before the Gaza disengagement. | |||
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"aye, a right wing extremist murdered his own prime minister If you're talking about Rabin, that was in 1995 - years before the Gaza disengagement." and then there was the lukid party member and kach extremist terrorist mass murderer baruch goldstein ... remember him? | |||
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"aye, a right wing extremist murdered his own prime minister If you're talking about Rabin, that was in 1995 - years before the Gaza disengagement. and then there was the lukid party member and kach extremist terrorist mass murderer baruch goldstein ... remember him?" Again, nothing to do with the disengagement from Gaza. | |||
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"Perhaps you should read up on the history, which goes back to the 1982 Arab Summit in Fez when the PLO first committed to the recognition of Israel and a two-state solution. " This was very typical though - they introduced a completely unworkable plan, and then claimed Israel was being unreasonable for rejecting it. Exactly the same as is being played out now with Hamas. | |||
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"I honestly don't know why should anyone in Israel should ever accept laws made by the UN anyway - considering it is largely overseen by the same nations who once made Jewish persecution legal. For centuries Jews were expelled by England, burned in France, expelled from Spain, ghettoised in Italy and slaughtered in Russia. Germany made it law to wipe them out, and most of Europe complied. The US, Britain and others knew it was happening and did nothing to take in anything but a token number of refugees. And then, Britain completely reneged on the Balfour Declaration, making it even more difficult for Jews to escape the Holocaust - instead interring 55,000 in camps in Cyprus. And after that was finished, nearly another million Jews were driven out of the neighbouring Arab countries - where they were considered 'dhimmi' anyway - and again barely a word from the international community. Now the UN sits in judgement, writes resolutions, issues statements and declares what is and isn't legal - like they own the moral high ground on what's best for the World's only Jewish state. " One tiny Jewish State in the world and they can't accept it. | |||
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"aye, a right wing extremist murdered his own prime minister If you're talking about Rabin, that was in 1995 - years before the Gaza disengagement. and then there was the lukid party member and kach extremist terrorist mass murderer baruch goldstein ... remember him? Again, nothing to do with the disengagement from Gaza." as you said, the last time palestine was given a shot at independence, which is the occassion that israel agreed to give independence by forming two states in the early-mid 90's. as i pointed out the extremist terrorist groups that you so vociforously support and your support of the horrific murders that they carried out, violently ended that process. Goldstein was responsible for countless murders, bombings and terrorism in america whilst he was a chapter leader of the proscribed JDL. he escaped the FBI by fleeing to isreal along with other notorious murderers. he was also affiliated to the Baruch Marzel's Lehava terror group responsible for the beatings, murders of christians and the desicration of cemetaries. | |||
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"Goldstein was responsible for countless murders, bombings and terrorism in america whilst he was a chapter leader of the proscribed JDL. he escaped the FBI by fleeing to isreal along with other notorious murderers. he was also affiliated to the Baruch Marzel's Lehava terror group responsible for the beatings, murders of christians and the desicration of cemetaries. " He killed many people in a mosque, which was (of course) a vile act of terrorism. But the rest... Is that substantiated, or a ChatGPT hallucination? | |||
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"Goldstein was responsible for countless murders, bombings and terrorism in america whilst he was a chapter leader of the proscribed JDL. he escaped the FBI by fleeing to isreal along with other notorious murderers. he was also affiliated to the Baruch Marzel's Lehava terror group responsible for the beatings, murders of christians and the desicration of cemetaries. He killed many people in a mosque, which was (of course) a vile act of terrorism. But the rest... Is that substantiated, or a ChatGPT hallucination?" i don't use AI .... i hunted for FBI files from the 90's now released to the public domain .... it wasn't difficult to be fair. | |||
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"Goldstein was responsible for countless murders, bombings and terrorism in america whilst he was a chapter leader of the proscribed JDL. he escaped the FBI by fleeing to isreal along with other notorious murderers. he was also affiliated to the Baruch Marzel's Lehava terror group responsible for the beatings, murders of christians and the desicration of cemetaries. He killed many people in a mosque, which was (of course) a vile act of terrorism. But the rest... Is that substantiated, or a ChatGPT hallucination? i don't use AI .... i hunted for FBI files from the 90's now released to the public domain .... it wasn't difficult to be fair." Help out with some search terms, if not links? Genuine request for education here. | |||
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"Goldstein was responsible for countless murders, bombings and terrorism in america whilst he was a chapter leader of the proscribed JDL. he escaped the FBI by fleeing to isreal along with other notorious murderers. he was also affiliated to the Baruch Marzel's Lehava terror group responsible for the beatings, murders of christians and the desicration of cemetaries. He killed many people in a mosque, which was (of course) a vile act of terrorism. But the rest... Is that substantiated, or a ChatGPT hallucination? i don't use AI .... i hunted for FBI files from the 90's now released to the public domain .... it wasn't difficult to be fair. Help out with some search terms, if not links? Genuine request for education here." do you have access to any university intranet facilities? there's reams of search facilities if you do. otherwise forum rules say no and you have to use your brain then. start with names then be patient, relentless and dig deep. tor onion over vpn helps. all standard stuff really. good luck. | |||
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" do you have access to any university intranet facilities? there's reams of search facilities if you do. otherwise forum rules say no and you have to use your brain then. start with names then be patient, relentless and dig deep. tor onion over vpn helps. all standard stuff really. good luck. "Ah. This is a "do you own research" kind of thing. Okay. | |||
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" do you have access to any university intranet facilities? there's reams of search facilities if you do. otherwise forum rules say no and you have to use your brain then. start with names then be patient, relentless and dig deep. tor onion over vpn helps. all standard stuff really. good luck.
Ah. This is a "do you own research" kind of thing.
Okay."Forum rules say no - what does this remind me of?! | |||
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" Forum rules say no - what does this remind me of?! " Prydain fach neu frawd mawr .... neu'r ddau | |||
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" Forum rules say no - what does this remind me of?! Prydain fach neu frawd mawr .... neu'r ddau "Can you say that in English, please? I'm not a Welsh speaker. | |||
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" Forum rules say no - what does this remind me of?! Prydain fach neu frawd mawr .... neu'r ddau
Can you say that in English, please? I'm not a Welsh speaker. "Maybe I can, maybe I can't... Turn left at the old oak tree and then Ah wont thaaat wun | |||
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"I'm really interested to see what happens to the soumoud convoy. There are around 1000 people in the convoy with around 300 vehicles, if they are allowed through Egypt I can't see this ending well. I'm also confident that they wont be getting the first class Greta deportation treatment either. " Egypt already deported many who came to Egypt to take part in the March. It got about as much media attention as any other subject that happens without Israeli involvement... | |||
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"I'm really interested to see what happens to the soumoud convoy. There are around 1000 people in the convoy with around 300 vehicles, if they are allowed through Egypt I can't see this ending well. I'm also confident that they wont be getting the first class Greta deportation treatment either. Egypt already deported many who came to Egypt to take part in the March. It got about as much media attention as any other subject that happens without Israeli involvement..." They are getting a right old shoeing from the Eqyptisn populace. Seems the Palestinian cause is not that popular that side of the border. | |||
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"I'm really interested to see what happens to the soumoud convoy. There are around 1000 people in the convoy with around 300 vehicles, if they are allowed through Egypt I can't see this ending well. I'm also confident that they wont be getting the first class Greta deportation treatment either. Egypt already deported many who came to Egypt to take part in the March. It got about as much media attention as any other subject that happens without Israeli involvement... They are getting a right old shoeing from the Eqyptisn populace. Seems the Palestinian cause is not that popular that side of the border. " The Egyptians are not holding back are they! | |||
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"I'm really interested to see what happens to the soumoud convoy. There are around 1000 people in the convoy with around 300 vehicles, if they are allowed through Egypt I can't see this ending well. I'm also confident that they wont be getting the first class Greta deportation treatment either. Egypt already deported many who came to Egypt to take part in the March. It got about as much media attention as any other subject that happens without Israeli involvement... They are getting a right old shoeing from the Eqyptisn populace. Seems the Palestinian cause is not that popular that side of the border. The Egyptians are not holding back are they! " Yeah it’s not going very well at all. This performative stuff doesn’t work in Egypt. | |||
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