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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next?" Probably 35% in the polls. | |||
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"looks the toxic have caused another implosion again." European Countries where the burqa is banned in public: Austria, Belgium, Bulgaria, Denmark, France, Luxembourg, the Netherlands, Switzerland, and parts of Italy and Spain. So much racism out there ! | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Probably 35% in the polls." Yeah tbf, a chairman with south Asian heritage resigning will probably win over a few more reform types   | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Probably 35% in the polls. Yeah tbf, a chairman with south Asian heritage resigning will probably win over a few more reform types "Didn't having a Muslim Chair double Reform's poll numbers ? | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Probably 35% in the polls. Yeah tbf, a chairman with south Asian heritage resigning will probably win over a few more reform types
Didn't having a Muslim Chair double Reform's poll numbers ? "No, reform voters keep telling us it’s because they want an alternative to lab/con, don’t they? | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Probably 35% in the polls. Yeah tbf, a chairman with south Asian heritage resigning will probably win over a few more reform types
Didn't having a Muslim Chair double Reform's poll numbers ? "Probably doubled the reform Muslim members…… 
Just kidding 
But you are sounding like the press office on a firefighting mission right now | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Probably 35% in the polls. Yeah tbf, a chairman with south Asian heritage resigning will probably win over a few more reform types
Didn't having a Muslim Chair double Reform's poll numbers ?
Probably doubled the reform Muslim members……
Just kidding
But you are sounding like the press office on a firefighting mission right now "Poll released today showed Labour under Starmer has suffered the biggest loss of support of any new Govt on record. The Govt has lost three Ministers through various scandals and had one MP receive a suspended custodial sentence for assault. The Conservatives are currently at an historic low in the polls and likely to change leader yet again. Meanwhile Reform is currently at least 8 points clear in the Polls, has had a hugely successful local election campaign and now the Chair has resigned with no suggestion of scandal or impropriety. Some fire that 🔥 | |||
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"Forgive my ignorance but why is he racist? Have I missed something " I suspect the OP was referring to Sarah Pochin. | |||
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"Who’s the racist? And what have they done to be being called racist? " Called for the Burqa to be banned in public, something in place in many countries including Muslim states. All racist obviously. | |||
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"Who’s the racist? And what have they done to be being called racist? Called for the Burqa to be banned in public, something in place in many countries including Muslim states. All racist obviously." Ah ok, so not racist, just the usual leftie liberal accusations. | |||
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"Who’s the racist? And what have they done to be being called racist? Called for the Burqa to be banned in public, something in place in many countries including Muslim states. All racist obviously." And not reform policy either.. As maiden speeches go it's unusual for any new MP to ask the PM to implement something that they're party doesn't advocate.. It could be part of why the ex chairman went but possibly along the lines of the lack of a collective view and a lack of discipline.. | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist " No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. " But it’s not a religious garment. It’s cultural, not religious. | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. But it’s not a religious garment. It’s cultural, not religious. " The Burqa is not mandated in Islam. It's an expression of the most retrograde and conservative Islamic cultural beliefs, mostly emanating from Saudi Arabia, which aim to keep women as the property of their husbands and fathers. Naturally its very popular with the Western left. | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. But it’s not a religious garment. It’s cultural, not religious. The Burqa is not mandated in Islam. It's an expression of the most retrograde and conservative Islamic cultural beliefs, mostly emanating from Saudi Arabia, which aim to keep women as the property of their husbands and fathers. Naturally its very popular with the Western left." It's not mandated, no. Like any other religion, there are progressives, there are middle of the road, and there are ones who are less tolerant. I have not found any other culture that suggests face coverings. | |||
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" Naturally its very popular with the Western left." Is it? Or are you inventing things again? | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. " It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning. | |||
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"It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning." And deciding that words mean whatever you feel like they should mean, is not going to help you to communicate effectively. What you're doing is picking a word that has the right amount of insult and distaste associated with it in your mind, and using it to make other people feel bad. You're communicating your feelings, not your thoughts. | |||
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"Reform and its predecessor parties have been attacked as “racist” for decades apparently to no avail given their steady progress over that time to the point that they are leading in national polls and even have a realistic chance of forming the next government. " Well tbf we’ve also pointed out that Reform have voted against workers rights whilst also pretending to support workers rights, but maybe reform voters just don’t care about details like that. | |||
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"Who’s the racist? And what have they done to be being called racist? Called for the Burqa to be banned in public, something in place in many countries including Muslim states. All racist obviously. Ah ok, so not racist, just the usual leftie liberal accusations. " They have to keep it going or it would be no fun would it? lol | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning. " If the only people to wear a burqa are Muslim, how is that race? | |||
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"Reform and its predecessor parties have been attacked as “racist” for decades apparently to no avail given their steady progress over that time to the point that they are leading in national polls and even have a realistic chance of forming the next government. The cry of “racism” clearly hasn’t worked, but still Reform’s opponents rely on it as their only attack dog. One can only really conclude therefore that Leftists are either stupid and unable to adjust their strategy with the times as they don’t have the intelligence to do so, or they don’t really have any arguments so the cry of “racist” is all they’ve got." When your politics are all about making people do things you don’t want to do yourself, it’s important to cover this up with personal attacks on everyone else. “The right thing to do is ________ but I can’t do that because _______ but anyone else who doesn’t want to do it is a far right, Nazi bigot” As for this particular issue I personally don’t care. If woman choose to wear them that’s their choice. If they are being forced to by males in their family then they should do something about it. One of my many jobs over the years was graduation photography, often managing teams of a dozen studio photographers or more. I was sometimes asked to clear a room containing maybe 20 of my staff and 100 or more queuing customers so that a lady could remove her face covering and nobody else see. They always wanted a female photographer. The irony was I’d also receive numerous complaints from my female staff about males from the same culture talking to them like shit, just because the lady photographer was telling them how pose to make them look good. The amount of times I had to move a male subject from a female photographer to a male you probably wouldn’t believe | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next?" Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously? | |||
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"Second best Scottish Parliamentary seat result for Reform last night in Hamilton. Won a Council by election in Frinton (SE England) with over 60% of vote, from 0 previously. Worst implosion ever." Gathering momentum every day in the face of Labour U turns and manifesto pledge failure. | |||
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"It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning. And deciding that words mean whatever you feel like they should mean, is not going to help you to communicate effectively. What you're doing is picking a word that has the right amount of insult and distaste associated with it in your mind, and using it to make other people feel bad. You're communicating your feelings, not your thoughts." You’ve got quite a talent for making yourself the victim in the things I say, when I’m just speaking objectively. Nobody is gonna change their views based on a Fab Swingers post, so it’s just discourse anyway isn’t it? I’m also not the only one making provocative comments. I don’t care what your views are and imagine you don’t care about mine, so please let’s not make things personal when they aren’t. I don’t have a horse in this race. | |||
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"It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning." "And deciding that words mean whatever you feel like they should mean, is not going to help you to communicate effectively. What you're doing is picking a word that has the right amount of insult and distaste associated with it in your mind, and using it to make other people feel bad. You're communicating your feelings, not your thoughts." "You’ve got quite a talent for making yourself the victim in the things I say ..." I don't know where you get the idea that I'm taking it personally. There was nothing in what you said that was directed at anyone. All I'm doing is pointing out that your argument doesn't make sense. I can see why you might take that personally, but that would be you making yourself the victim. | |||
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"It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning. And deciding that words mean whatever you feel like they should mean, is not going to help you to communicate effectively. What you're doing is picking a word that has the right amount of insult and distaste associated with it in your mind, and using it to make other people feel bad. You're communicating your feelings, not your thoughts. You’ve got quite a talent for making yourself the victim in the things I say ... I don't know where you get the idea that I'm taking it personally. There was nothing in what you said that was directed at anyone. All I'm doing is pointing out that your argument doesn't make sense. I can see why you might take that personally, but that would be you making yourself the victim." Sincerely, I don’t enter these discussions to try and change people’s opinions at all. Yeh, I take the piss but I do try and at last attack the rhetoric and not the person, I hate reporting to ad hominem bullshit. We don’t have to agree and to be honest, it’s more interesting if we don’t. Echo chambers are the fucking worst, I’d sooner have a whole forum pulling me apart than a whole forum parroting each other. | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning. " Hmmmm. Now you're bringing intersectionality into the equation. So I understand how it's difficult to extrapolate race from religion. Semantics are very important, I agree, but let's not call something racist when it's religion. | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning. Hmmmm. Now you're bringing intersectionality into the equation. So I understand how it's difficult to extrapolate race from religion. Semantics are very important, I agree, but let's not call something racist when it's religion. " I do accept the distinction, I’m just talking about the consensus. When someone says something about Muslims, let’s be real, they’re not likely to be be referring to the millions of West African Muslims. All still conjecture though. Personally I’m not one to throw the term around but like a lot of things it’s a shorthand for many other types of prejudice. | |||
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"The Reform MP specifically referred to banning the burqa in public for security reasons which seems like a strong argument. Anyone, Muslim or otherwise, can wear a full burqa and escape being identified while committing a crime and there are recorded cases of men doing just that." I’m not just being a contrarian here, I do see that it’s not a totally baseless idea. A niqab is definitely not the only item of clothing or outfit that completely obscures your identity. Motorbike helmets, COVID masks even hoodies pulled right over your head can make you impossible to identify. I don’t think “ban the burqua” is racist though. They’re not doing it because they don’t like Muslims. They’re doing it because it appeals to people who don’t like Muslims. Who will then vote accordingly. I’d be interested to see how many crime suspects escaped the police because they were wearing one. | |||
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"Is it not called a niqab? " The main difference between a hijab and a niqab lies in the extent of facial coverage. A hijab is a headscarf that covers the hair and neck, leaving the face visible. A niqab is a veil that covers the face, leaving only the eyes uncovered. | |||
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"Where 'burqa bans' exists the law usually covers all public face coverings which is why they have survived legal challenges alleging discrimination." Ah right, wasn’t aware of that. | |||
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"Populists always end up at war with each other. Farage has left a trail of people in his wake over many years who question or challenge him. His ego and fragile temperament means his undemocratic polical company can only cope with yes men subservient to him. " Absolutely correct From ukip to the present he's failed to run a political party without it turning into a complete shit show. So what chance has he got running a county. Absolutely None he's a charlatan who can hold up to any level of scrutiny | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. It can definitely still be considered racism, it’s more of an umbrella term for prejudice associated with a race as opposed to prejudice isolated to race. Semantics I know but the key to communication is meaning. Hmmmm. Now you're bringing intersectionality into the equation. So I understand how it's difficult to extrapolate race from religion. Semantics are very important, I agree, but let's not call something racist when it's religion. I do accept the distinction, I’m just talking about the consensus. When someone says something about Muslims, let’s be real, they’re not likely to be be referring to the millions of West African Muslims. All still conjecture though. Personally I’m not one to throw the term around but like a lot of things it’s a shorthand for many other types of prejudice. " I think you have just proved my point. If it's the religion that's the target, let's call it a religiously motivated incident. If race is the defining feature, let's call it a racially motivated incident. Calling something racism when it's really to do with the religion is unhelpful. | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously? " I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better. | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next?" "Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously?" "I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better." Interesting that your initial claim was "A wife beater MP", and you've now toned that down to "MP with a domestic violence record". Do you have any examples of a party that has 'rallied behind an MP with a domestic violence record'? | |||
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" Ah ok, so not racist No, you're right, not racist. It's a religion. Islam, or being Muslim, is a faith. Not a race. But it’s not a religious garment. It’s cultural, not religious. The Burqa is not mandated in Islam. It's an expression of the most retrograde and conservative Islamic cultural beliefs, mostly emanating from Saudi Arabia, which aim to keep women as the property of their husbands and fathers. Naturally its very popular with the Western left." ____________________________________________ I think it's more about having the freedom to wear what you want to wear, I'm not particularly enamoured of overweight, bald, middle aged men wearing tribal football costumes made of synthetic fibres, but each to their own | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously? I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better. Interesting that your initial claim was "A wife beater MP", and you've now toned that down to "MP with a domestic violence record". Do you have any examples of a party that has 'rallied behind an MP with a domestic violence record'?" I have evidence of a current MP who beat up his girlfriend, was forgiven by his party and who was lauded as ‘brilliant’ by the deputy leader, if that counts | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously? I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better." When you say “vet candidates better”, do you mean try to avoid people who beat others up in the street just because they disagree with views? | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously? I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better. When you say “vet candidates better”, do you mean try to avoid people who beat others up in the street just because they disagree with views? " Any violence is worrisome, is it not? Regardless of the perpetrator? But particularly from an MP. Unless you have some evidence of me suggesting otherwise, I’m not really sure what your point is | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next?" "Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously?" "I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better.?" "Interesting that your initial claim was "A wife beater MP", and you've now toned that down to "MP with a domestic violence record". Do you have any examples of a party that has 'rallied behind an MP with a domestic violence record'??" "I have evidence of a current MP who beat up his girlfriend, was forgiven by his party and who was lauded as ‘brilliant’ by the deputy leader, if that counts" Are you going to share that evidence with us, or are we supposed to guess which party you are referring to? | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously? I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better.? Interesting that your initial claim was "A wife beater MP", and you've now toned that down to "MP with a domestic violence record". Do you have any examples of a party that has 'rallied behind an MP with a domestic violence record'?? I have evidence of a current MP who beat up his girlfriend, was forgiven by his party and who was lauded as ‘brilliant’ by the deputy leader, if that counts Are you going to share that evidence with us, or are we supposed to guess which party you are referring to?" I’d have thought I’d provided enough for anyone with an interest in politics to know who I was referring to, especially given the thread title. https://news.sky.com/story/reform-mp-james-mcmurdock-was-jailed-for-repeatedly-kicking-girlfriend-court-records-show-13258311 | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next?" "Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously?" "I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better.?" "Interesting that your initial claim was "A wife beater MP", and you've now toned that down to "MP with a domestic violence record". Do you have any examples of a party that has 'rallied behind an MP with a domestic violence record'??" "I have evidence of a current MP who beat up his girlfriend, was forgiven by his party and who was lauded as ‘brilliant’ by the deputy leader, if that counts" "Are you going to share that evidence with us, or are we supposed to guess which party you are referring to?" "I’d have thought I’d provided enough for anyone with an interest in politics to know who I was referring to, especially given the thread title. https://news.sky.com/story/reform-mp-james-mcmurdock-was-jailed-for-repeatedly-kicking-girlfriend-court-records-show-13258311 " Ah! So we're not talking about an MP that has recently beaten his wife and had it covered up by the party then. Instead we're talking about a man that was convicted of assault over 19 years ago, whose colleagues have said that he's now a nice bloke. I didn't have you down as the sort of bloke that didn't believe in second chances, and feels that any misdemeanor should be held against a perpetrator for the rest of their life. I can't find any quote from anyone in the party saying that he's 'brilliant'. I can find Richard Tice saying that "he's doing brilliantly", but that's a rather different phrase. Even if Tice had said that he was brilliant, that's hardly the entire party "rallying round" to support him. | |||
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"Aren’t they the next government in waiting? A wife beater MP, resignations, unpaid deposits after standing candidates down. Whatever next? Are you suggesting that a party who has an MP that beats people up shouldn’t be taken seriously? I’m suggesting that a party who rallies behind and MP with a domestic violence record should probably vet their candidates better.? Interesting that your initial claim was "A wife beater MP", and you've now toned that down to "MP with a domestic violence record". Do you have any examples of a party that has 'rallied behind an MP with a domestic violence record'?? I have evidence of a current MP who beat up his girlfriend, was forgiven by his party and who was lauded as ‘brilliant’ by the deputy leader, if that counts Are you going to share that evidence with us, or are we supposed to guess which party you are referring to? I’d have thought I’d provided enough for anyone with an interest in politics to know who I was referring to, especially given the thread title. https://news.sky.com/story/reform-mp-james-mcmurdock-was-jailed-for-repeatedly-kicking-girlfriend-court-records-show-13258311 Ah! So we're not talking about an MP that has recently beaten his wife and had it covered up by the party then. Instead we're talking about a man that was convicted of assault over 19 years ago, whose colleagues have said that he's now a nice bloke. I didn't have you down as the sort of bloke that didn't believe in second chances, and feels that any misdemeanor should be held against a perpetrator for the rest of their life. I can't find any quote from anyone in the party saying that he's 'brilliant'. I can find Richard Tice saying that "he's doing brilliantly", but that's a rather different phrase. Even if Tice had said that he was brilliant, that's hardly the entire party "rallying round" to support him." I don’t believe in second chances for people beating up their Mrs, no. Less so an MP. | |||
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"I don’t believe in second chances for people beating up their Mrs, no. Less so an MP." A man has a fight with his girlfriend at the age of 19, and you feel that he must be barred from public office for life. No possibility of rehabilitation in your opinion. How very intolerant of you. | |||
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"I don’t believe in second chances for people beating up their Mrs, no. Less so an MP. A man has a fight with his girlfriend at the age of 19, and you feel that he must be barred from public office for life. No possibility of rehabilitation in your opinion. How very intolerant of you." I am proudly intolerant of men who beat up women, yes. What’s your point? | |||
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"I don’t believe in second chances for people beating up their Mrs, no. Less so an MP." "A man has a fight with his girlfriend at the age of 19, and you feel that he must be barred from public office for life. No possibility of rehabilitation in your opinion. How very intolerant of you." "I am proudly intolerant of men who beat up women, yes. What’s your point?" My point was to show up your use of inaccurate and emotive language, to highlight the way that you embellish the facts, and to highlight your prejudice. I think I've done that. | |||
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