Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Trust she will be careful, the Jews have shot up another 117 civilians today (27 dead, 90 injured) who were queuing for food apparently. " The Israeli authorities and the IDF. Not the Jews. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Trust she will be careful, the Jews have shot up another 117 civilians today (27 dead, 90 injured) who were queuing for food apparently." Don't blame it on Jews. Plenty of Jews are involved in protesting the actions of the Israeli government and IDF. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Trust she will be careful, the Jews have shot up another 117 civilians today (27 dead, 90 injured) who were queuing for food apparently." She said in an interview that they are sailing with "solidarity and love"... surely there's no better shield against bullets?? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Having destroyed Europe’s energy policies (who can ever forget the ridiculous Miliband and Gove meeting her and fawning over every word that the dumb school dropout uttered) it’s only right that she turns her hand to screwing up what’s left of world peace. Or maybe she and her family realised that the climate grift was coming to an end and they needed to re focus their attention somewhere else." Longest gap year ever. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m not sure sailing somewhere and then being turned back is “helping”. Nor am I that convinced that the Israelis are likely to listen to someone who basically has zero knowledge or expertise about anything. They can’t afford to be quite so gullible as the British and Europeans." She hasn’t been turned back yet- let’s just wait and see. It will Be interesting to See what happens | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m not sure sailing somewhere and then being turned back is “helping”. Nor am I that convinced that the Israelis are likely to listen to someone who basically has zero knowledge or expertise about anything. They can’t afford to be quite so gullible as the British and Europeans. She hasn’t been turned back yet- let’s just wait and see. It will Be interesting to See what happens" If the journey ends badly because nobody stepped in to prevent this, how would you feel then? This situation needs more than living vicariously. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m not sure sailing somewhere and then being turned back is “helping”. Nor am I that convinced that the Israelis are likely to listen to someone who basically has zero knowledge or expertise about anything. They can’t afford to be quite so gullible as the British and Europeans. She hasn’t been turned back yet- let’s just wait and see. It will Be interesting to See what happens If the journey ends badly because nobody stepped in to prevent this, how would you feel then? This situation needs more than living vicariously." TBH I wouldn’t lose any sleep. Just like I don’t lose sleep over most things that happen around the world that are not directly impacting me- and most of the worlds population are just like me. She knows the risks. It’s her life to lead and she has decided to be a crusader and a maverick- off she pops | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I’m not sure sailing somewhere and then being turned back is “helping”. Nor am I that convinced that the Israelis are likely to listen to someone who basically has zero knowledge or expertise about anything. They can’t afford to be quite so gullible as the British and Europeans. She hasn’t been turned back yet- let’s just wait and see. It will Be interesting to See what happens If the journey ends badly because nobody stepped in to prevent this, how would you feel then? This situation needs more than living vicariously. TBH I wouldn’t lose any sleep. Just like I don’t lose sleep over most things that happen around the world that are not directly impacting me- and most of the worlds population are just like me. She knows the risks. It’s her life to lead and she has decided to be a crusader and a maverick- off she pops" I can't argue with that to be fair  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Having saved the world once already from climate armageddon, our stunning and brave crusader has boarded a boat with 11 other activists and is sailing for Gaza. The goal is to “break Israel’s blockade” and deliver much needed aid to the people of Gaza. She is quite clearly anti semitic. I’ve no doubt our intrepid heroine will finally fix this ongoing disaster in the middle-east. Good luck and Godspeed, miss Thunberg! " | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Erm….. who cares? If the purpose is to deliver food to those that have none, great, knock yourself out. But if that was the only purpose, why make a media stunt out of it? Most people who do voluntarily work for a charity or give them money just do it, they don’t send out a press release. And it doesn’t need her involvement to keep it in the news, it’s in the news pretty much every day. And what if Hamas decide to take her as a hostage? She’s noting more than an attention seeking child seeking more attention because she ain’t been getting any. If anything it’s detracting attention from the real issues in Gaza. " This | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It's great that she's working to keep and raise attention, to starving children and genocide. She's braver than I am. Israel's reputation overseas is at an all-time low and their own population is unhappy with the leader's tactics. Sad times " Do you think there isn't enough attention focused on Gaza? What does this exercise bring above and beyond? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
They tried this a few weeks ago where there ship was “mysteriously” attacked by drones and shot at by planes in international waters just off Malta…
When the Israeli government were questioned answered “we don’t talk about operational matters”
You know… the ones where the Israeli government and the IDF don’t confirm or deny responsibility because it would be too internationally sensitive….. but give the good old wink!!! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t believe you all can’t remember that this isn’t the first time this has been attempted…..
They tried this a few weeks ago where there ship was “mysteriously” attacked by drones and shot at by planes in international waters just off Malta…
When the Israeli government were questioned answered “we don’t talk about operational matters”
You know… the ones where the Israeli government and the IDF don’t confirm or deny responsibility because it would be too internationally sensitive….. but give the good old wink!!! "What is the point of this exercise? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t believe you all can’t remember that this isn’t the first time this has been attempted…..
They tried this a few weeks ago where there ship was “mysteriously” attacked by drones and shot at by planes in international waters just off Malta…
When the Israeli government were questioned answered “we don’t talk about operational matters”
You know… the ones where the Israeli government and the IDF don’t confirm or deny responsibility because it would be too internationally sensitive….. but give the good old wink!!! "back even futher to 2011 when the IDF stopped aid boats from breaking the then total blockade and also 2010 when the IDF killed the occupants of a turkish aid boat attempting to break the total blockade. these two incidents caused international outcry that ended the total blockade and opened the land crossing again. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t believe you all can’t remember that this isn’t the first time this has been attempted…..
They tried this a few weeks ago where there ship was “mysteriously” attacked by drones and shot at by planes in international waters just off Malta…
When the Israeli government were questioned answered “we don’t talk about operational matters”
You know… the ones where the Israeli government and the IDF don’t confirm or deny responsibility because it would be too internationally sensitive….. but give the good old wink!!!
back even futher to 2011 when the IDF stopped aid boats from breaking the then total blockade and also 2010 when the IDF killed the occupants of a turkish aid boat attempting to break the total blockade.
these two incidents caused international outcry that ended the total blockade and opened the land crossing again. "Not much international outcry at the weekly murder of these civilians. 55k at the last estimate. The western word and others came to the aid of Ukraine whose civilian casualties so far are about half that of Gaza. Isreal has turned Gaza into the biggest concentration camp since Auschwitz | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Not much international outcry at the weekly murder of these civilians. " i disagree with you there. there is huge outcry about what's happening being reported across all media. there may be a distinct lack of action, but there is huge outcry. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I can’t believe you all can’t remember that this isn’t the first time this has been attempted…..
They tried this a few weeks ago where there ship was “mysteriously” attacked by drones and shot at by planes in international waters just off Malta…
When the Israeli government were questioned answered “we don’t talk about operational matters”
You know… the ones where the Israeli government and the IDF don’t confirm or deny responsibility because it would be too internationally sensitive….. but give the good old wink!!!
back even futher to 2011 when the IDF stopped aid boats from breaking the then total blockade and also 2010 when the IDF killed the occupants of a turkish aid boat attempting to break the total blockade.
these two incidents caused international outcry that ended the total blockade and opened the land crossing again.
Not much international outcry at the weekly murder of these civilians. 55k at the last estimate.
The western word and others came to the aid of Ukraine whose civilian casualties so far are about half that of Gaza. Isreal has turned Gaza into the biggest concentration camp since Auschwitz "Ukraine was invaded. Israel was invaded | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Maybe the international attention and public outcry should be aimed at Hamas to stop fighting and handover the hostages, as Israel is not listening. Why is that not a happening, wouldn't it bring the same results an end to the bloodshed?" Hamas had a ceasefire on October 6th. They decided to end it on October 7th. They could have another ceasefire at any moment, as soon as they release the hostages and accept one of the many, many ceasefire deals offered to them and approved by all other parties concerned. Except... they refuse. Hmm. How curious. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Maybe the international attention and public outcry should be aimed at Hamas to stop fighting and handover the hostages, as Israel is not listening. Why is that not a happening, wouldn't it bring the same results an end to the bloodshed? Hamas had a ceasefire on October 6th. They decided to end it on October 7th. They could have another ceasefire at any moment, as soon as they release the hostages and accept one of the many, many ceasefire deals offered to them and approved by all other parties concerned. Except... they refuse. Hmm. How curious." Israel ended the last ceasefire in March, did they not? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Maybe the international attention and public outcry should be aimed at Hamas to stop fighting and handover the hostages, as Israel is not listening. Why is that not a happening, wouldn't it bring the same results an end to the bloodshed? Hamas had a ceasefire on October 6th. They decided to end it on October 7th. They could have another ceasefire at any moment, as soon as they release the hostages and accept one of the many, many ceasefire deals offered to them and approved by all other parties concerned. Except... they refuse. Hmm. How curious. Israel ended the last ceasefire in March, did they not? " Yes they did… Israel are refusing to go into stage 2 of the recognised ceasefire agreement | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel ended the last ceasefire in March, did they not?" "The war was triggered when Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking 251 back to Gaza as captives." ... "Israeli prime minister's office said the action was ordered after Hamas's "repeated refusal to release our hostages" and its rejection of new ceasefire proposals by the US and mediators." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy5klgv5zv0o So in short... no. Hamas knows what it needs to do in order to have a ceasefire immediately. They have the power to stop even a single more Gazan death. They will never do it, however. Because they are terrorist cowards who have shown they are more than happy and willing to sacrifice the lives of it's own citizenry for "the cause". And in case anyone is still unaware of what that cause is; the complete genocide / ethic cleasing of any and all Jews and utter obliteration of the state of Israel. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Yes they did… Israel are refusing to go into stage 2 of the recognised ceasefire agreement" Again. Hamas had a ceasefire on October 6th. They are the ones who decided to shatter that into pieces on October 7th. Since then, they have repeatedly refused to give back their hostages. They have repeatedly rejected deal after deal after deal for a new ceasefire. You do not reward acts of brutal and barbaric terrorism. All this will do in future is embolden and encourage Hamas and other similar groups to repeat such acts of terrorism. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel ended the last ceasefire in March, did they not? "The war was triggered when Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking 251 back to Gaza as captives." ... "Israeli prime minister's office said the action was ordered after Hamas's "repeated refusal to release our hostages" and its rejection of new ceasefire proposals by the US and mediators." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy5klgv5zv0o So in short... no. Hamas knows what it needs to do in order to have a ceasefire immediately. They have the power to stop even a single more Gazan death. They will never do it, however. Because they are terrorist cowards who have shown they are more than happy and willing to sacrifice the lives of it's own citizenry for "the cause". And in case anyone is still unaware of what that cause is; the complete genocide / ethic cleasing of any and all Jews and utter obliteration of the state of Israel." So Israel didn’t break a ceasefire in March 2025? You’re sure about that? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So Israel didn’t break a ceasefire in March 2025? You’re sure about that?" As far as I'm aware the March thing is a case of both sides pointing the finger and blaming the other. However, the whole March thing is made moot due to what is outlined quite clearly in the post you quoted. There is zero justification or excuse for terrorism. Under any circumstances. Ever. Period. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Maybe the international attention and public outcry should be aimed at Hamas to stop fighting and handover the hostages, as Israel is not listening. Why is that not a happening, wouldn't it bring the same results an end to the bloodshed? Hamas had a ceasefire on October 6th. They decided to end it on October 7th. They could have another ceasefire at any moment, as soon as they release the hostages and accept one of the many, many ceasefire deals offered to them and approved by all other parties concerned. Except... they refuse. Hmm. How curious. Israel ended the last ceasefire in March, did they not? " No they did not | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel ended the last ceasefire in March, did they not? "The war was triggered when Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking 251 back to Gaza as captives." ... "Israeli prime minister's office said the action was ordered after Hamas's "repeated refusal to release our hostages" and its rejection of new ceasefire proposals by the US and mediators." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy5klgv5zv0o So in short... no. Hamas knows what it needs to do in order to have a ceasefire immediately. They have the power to stop even a single more Gazan death. They will never do it, however. Because they are terrorist cowards who have shown they are more than happy and willing to sacrifice the lives of it's own citizenry for "the cause". And in case anyone is still unaware of what that cause is; the complete genocide / ethic cleasing of any and all Jews and utter obliteration of the state of Israel. So Israel didn’t break a ceasefire in March 2025? You’re sure about that? " If you sign a ceasefire on a contingent of returning hostages and you don't return those hostages as agreed nor keep to other terms. You don't get to play the victim. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" If you sign a ceasefire on a contingent of returning hostages and you don't return those hostages as agreed nor keep to other terms. You don't get to play the victim." See… here is the thing Hamas, whether you like them or hate them, fully complied with phase 1 of the ceasefire agreement….. Hamas wanted to go on to phase 2 of the ceasefire agreement, Israel doesn’t and decided on a complete humanitarian aid blockade and increase military operations You might not like the facts… but here we are | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" If you sign a ceasefire on a contingent of returning hostages and you don't return those hostages as agreed nor keep to other terms. You don't get to play the victim. See… here is the thing Hamas, whether you like them or hate them, fully complied with phase 1 of the ceasefire agreement….. Hamas wanted to go on to phase 2 of the ceasefire agreement, Israel doesn’t and decided on a complete humanitarian aid blockade and increase military operations You might not like the facts… but here we are " Hamas didn't return the hostages. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel ended the last ceasefire in March, did they not? "The war was triggered when Hamas attacked Israel on 7 October 2023, killing about 1,200 people and taking 251 back to Gaza as captives." ... "Israeli prime minister's office said the action was ordered after Hamas's "repeated refusal to release our hostages" and its rejection of new ceasefire proposals by the US and mediators." https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cy5klgv5zv0o So in short... no. Hamas knows what it needs to do in order to have a ceasefire immediately. They have the power to stop even a single more Gazan death. They will never do it, however. Because they are terrorist cowards who have shown they are more than happy and willing to sacrifice the lives of it's own citizenry for "the cause". And in case anyone is still unaware of what that cause is; the complete genocide / ethic cleasing of any and all Jews and utter obliteration of the state of Israel. So Israel didn’t break a ceasefire in March 2025? You’re sure about that? If you sign a ceasefire on a contingent of returning hostages and you don't return those hostages as agreed nor keep to other terms. You don't get to play the victim." Netanyahu was never going to go to stage 2 he would if lost the support of his right wing nazi cronies. And Netanyahu has stated on more than one occasion even if all hostages were returned the bombing wont stop. So why would hamas hand over the remaining hostages. Do some research instead of falling for the bullshit of Netanyahu's government he only cares about staying in power not the hostages. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" If you sign a ceasefire on a contingent of returning hostages and you don't return those hostages as agreed nor keep to other terms. You don't get to play the victim. See… here is the thing Hamas, whether you like them or hate them, fully complied with phase 1 of the ceasefire agreement….. Hamas wanted to go on to phase 2 of the ceasefire agreement, Israel doesn’t and decided on a complete humanitarian aid blockade and increase military operations You might not like the facts… but here we are Hamas didn't return the hostages. " Phase one required hamas to release 33 hostages. They did so, like them or not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have no idea where this boat is expected to anchor, but she'll be a logistical nightmare for the IDF who will undoubtedly be expected to protect her regardless of her views." Probably going there by camel - The ship of the desert.. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I thought this was going to be a serious aid ship instead it’s a tiny sailing yacht. Symbolic apparently bordering on performative. " Couple of tonne of food on the boat at best, will Jesus rock up and make stretch to feed 2 million people. Rest of the globe watching on while children starve and bombed in their beds. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I am thinking it more symbolic, and in solidarity . Meanwhile in other news Israeli passport holders have been banned from the following countries. Algeria, Bangladesh, Brunei, Iran, Iraq, Kuwait, Lebanon, Libya, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, and Yemen and The Maldives. " All Muslim head chopping states with human rights abuses. No loss there | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I thought this was going to be a serious aid ship instead it’s a tiny sailing yacht. Symbolic apparently bordering on performative." Of course the boat trip manned by Thunberg, Cunningham and others is purely symbolic. The population of Gaza needs something like 600 truck loads of supplies a day coming in, so the supplies carried by a small boat would have no impact. Besides, the Israelis definitely won't allow it to land in Gaza. A larger boat attempting to get to Gaza was attacked by drones a month ago in international waters, so the publicity around the current attempt and the use of a much smaller boat is a deliberate choice as a similar drone attack on it would likely cause death. Instead the Israelis will be forced to use people to stop it. The trip is designed in the hope that it will help keep the situation in Gaza a little bit higher in the news agenda while other things are going on. Principally on June 17th a UN conference begins to discuss a two-state solution in New York. It's possible at this conference that France will apply presure on Israel by threatening to recognize a Palestine state, joining the existing 147 of the 193 UN states that currently do. Unfortunately, I think Netanyahu has already decided to ethnically cleanse Gaza despite this almost certainly decreasing Israel's long-term security. The gamble will be that Trump will support the war crimes with financial, political and military backup and that Netanyahu will be able to hold on to power. Following on from the forced transfer of two million people Trump will likely push the US into even further debt by handing over a very large sum to the Egyptian government to build an enormous refugee camp in the Sinai desert. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Starmer will just say we can have them all here. " Shhhhhh! Don't give him ideas.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"For everyone whining about israel's genocidal actions... Why not simply call on hamas to surrender, once and for all...and allow a new govt to arise in Gaza whose declared aim is NOT the annihilation of every Jew in Israel. We all know that Hamas out of the picture the ONLY thing that will stop this conflict. Sensible answers only please!" Reportedly 75% of Palestinians supported 7 October attacks. If Hamas weren’t after the Jews, like all good Islamics they’d be after the infidels. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"For everyone whining about israel's genocidal actions... Why not simply call on hamas to surrender, once and for all...and allow a new govt to arise in Gaza whose declared aim is NOT the annihilation of every Jew in Israel. We all know that Hamas out of the picture the ONLY thing that will stop this conflict. Sensible answers only please!" This conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7th. Removing Hamas is part of a solution, but far from all of it. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"For everyone whining about israel's genocidal actions... Why not simply call on hamas to surrender, once and for all...and allow a new govt to arise in Gaza whose declared aim is NOT the annihilation of every Jew in Israel. We all know that Hamas out of the picture the ONLY thing that will stop this conflict. Sensible answers only please! This conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7th. Removing Hamas is part of a solution, but far from all of it. " Are you claiming the actions of Hamas on October 7th were not the start of this war and the destruction that has followed. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"For everyone whining about israel's genocidal actions... Why not simply call on hamas to surrender, once and for all...and allow a new govt to arise in Gaza whose declared aim is NOT the annihilation of every Jew in Israel. We all know that Hamas out of the picture the ONLY thing that will stop this conflict. Sensible answers only please! This conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7th. Removing Hamas is part of a solution, but far from all of it. Are you claiming the actions of Hamas on October 7th were not the start of this war and the destruction that has followed. " If you think this conflict began on Oct 7th k have some magic beans you might be interested in. Find me the last year that there wasn’t a death in the region related to territorial dispute? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"For everyone whining about israel's genocidal actions... Why not simply call on hamas to surrender, once and for all...and allow a new govt to arise in Gaza whose declared aim is NOT the annihilation of every Jew in Israel. We all know that Hamas out of the picture the ONLY thing that will stop this conflict. Sensible answers only please! This conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7th. Removing Hamas is part of a solution, but far from all of it. Are you claiming the actions of Hamas on October 7th were not the start of this war and the destruction that has followed. If you think this conflict began on Oct 7th k have some magic beans you might be interested in. Find me the last year that there wasn’t a death in the region related to territorial dispute? " I’m genuinely surprised you’re still trying to reframe this.... The actions of Hamas on October 7th triggered this war,a re you seriously denying that? The conflict has been ongoing, but trying to conflate that history with the scale and intent of what Hamas did on Oct 7th as if it was just another chapter is so wrong. It wasn’t a continuation it was a deliberate, barbaric escalation that made a war inevitable, not conflict a war. The question of the post is straight forward, why don't countries and people turn their protests and attention towards Hamas and call for them to surrender and bring this to a stop. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Try reading this AP report from a while back that describes the proposal from Hamas and Israel's response. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4 The original article was posted in May 2024 (hence the reference to Biden) but has been updated recently. The proposal was adopted by the UN Security Council in Resolution 2735 on 10th June 2024 Israel refused to move to Phase 2. " why would Israel except anything from hamas the only solution is to stop but we no hamas are control freaks and don't care about their own people I can only see this stopping when either the Palestinians rise up against hamas or they are all wiped out and Donald gets his hotels. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Try reading this AP report from a while back that describes the proposal from Hamas and Israel's response. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4 The original article was posted in May 2024 (hence the reference to Biden) but has been updated recently. The proposal was adopted by the UN Security Council in Resolution 2735 on 10th June 2024 Israel refused to move to Phase 2. why would Israel except anything from hamas the only solution is to stop but we no hamas are control freaks and don't care about their own people I can only see this stopping when either the Palestinians rise up against hamas or they are all wiped out and Donald gets his hotels." And if the safety and well being of the 2 million odd displaced starving people is so important why hasn’t the UN put peacekeepers in | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Try reading this AP report from a while back that describes the proposal from Hamas and Israel's response. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4 The original article was posted in May 2024 (hence the reference to Biden) but has been updated recently. The proposal was adopted by the UN Security Council in Resolution 2735 on 10th June 2024 Israel refused to move to Phase 2. why would Israel except anything from hamas the only solution is to stop but we no hamas are control freaks and don't care about their own people I can only see this stopping when either the Palestinians rise up against hamas or they are all wiped out and Donald gets his hotels. And if the safety and well being of the 2 million odd displaced starving people is so important why hasn’t the UN put peacekeepers in " probably because Donald holds the purse strings. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"It's great that she's working to keep and raise attention, to starving children and genocide. She's braver than I am. Israel's reputation overseas is at an all-time low and their own population is unhappy with the leader's tactics. Sad times Do you think there isn't enough attention focused on Gaza? What does this exercise bring above and beyond?" Actually I don't. And not enough of the right attention, nor action. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"For everyone whining about israel's genocidal actions... Why not simply call on hamas to surrender, once and for all...and allow a new govt to arise in Gaza whose declared aim is NOT the annihilation of every Jew in Israel. We all know that Hamas out of the picture the ONLY thing that will stop this conflict. Sensible answers only please! This conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7th. Removing Hamas is part of a solution, but far from all of it. Are you claiming the actions of Hamas on October 7th were not the start of this war and the destruction that has followed. If you think this conflict began on Oct 7th k have some magic beans you might be interested in. Find me the last year that there wasn’t a death in the region related to territorial dispute? I’m genuinely surprised you’re still trying to reframe this.... The actions of Hamas on October 7th triggered this war,a re you seriously denying that? " This conflict is one in a series of conflicts dating back decades, with the same root cause. Do you deny that? How did you get on finding a year without a death? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Try reading this AP report from a while back that describes the proposal from Hamas and Israel's response. https://apnews.com/article/israel-hamas-war-gaza-ceasefire-negotiations-7cec005ccd59dbd817ef9614a8611ca4 The original article was posted in May 2024 (hence the reference to Biden) but has been updated recently. The proposal was adopted by the UN Security Council in Resolution 2735 on 10th June 2024 Israel refused to move to Phase 2. " In this scenario, Hamas wins and Israel loses (Hamas is in a better position than before they attacked/net winner, Israel is in a weaker position/net loser). Why would Israel have agreed to this, given that it (a) encourages further such incursions, and (b) strengthens Hamas for future attacks against Israel, from a stronger position than they were in pre-Oct 7th? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you claiming the actions of Hamas on October 7th were not the start of this war and the destruction that has followed." Things didn't begin in October 2023. The conflict has been going on since before 1948 with flare ups in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2021 and that's not counting the two intifadas. Overall direct casualties are about 10,000 Israelis and 100,000 Palestinians according to wiki (no doubt the final numbers will be the subject of research in coming years). In 2023 before 7th October the IDF killed 234 Palestinians in the West Bank (not Gaza) and settlers another 9. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" This conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7th. Removing Hamas is part of a solution, but far from all of it. " True. It began in 70 AD and had echoed across centuries, through Europe, North Africa and the Middle East. But the comment to which you were responding was discussing specifically the horrendous death toll in Gaza. Hamas has had the ability to stop the war all along, but chooses not to. Perhaps your argument is that Hamas is fighting a just war and should not be expected to stop just because their people are being killed (because of injustices committed pre-October 7th). That's a fair enough position to take. It's just not helpful to the innocents being killed. ...unless one feels that their martyrdom is a small price to pay for continuing the just war. Again, a fair enough position to take, given a certain world view. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Perhaps your argument is that Hamas is fighting a just war and should not be expected to stop just because their people are being killed (because of injustices committed pre-October 7th). That's a fair enough position to take. It's just not helpful to the innocents being killed. ...unless one feels that their martyrdom is a small price to pay for continuing the just war. Again, a fair enough position to take, given a certain world view." My argument is that either or both side can stop figuring at any given moment and I don’t particularly care which one chooses to do so, as long as one does. Every war ends around a table - they should hasten to that stage by any means. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"For everyone whining about israel's genocidal actions... Why not simply call on hamas to surrender, once and for all...and allow a new govt to arise in Gaza whose declared aim is NOT the annihilation of every Jew in Israel. We all know that Hamas out of the picture the ONLY thing that will stop this conflict. Sensible answers only please! This conflict didn’t begin on Oct 7th. Removing Hamas is part of a solution, but far from all of it. Are you claiming the actions of Hamas on October 7th were not the start of this war and the destruction that has followed. If you think this conflict began on Oct 7th k have some magic beans you might be interested in. Find me the last year that there wasn’t a death in the region related to territorial dispute? I’m genuinely surprised you’re still trying to reframe this.... The actions of Hamas on October 7th triggered this war,a re you seriously denying that? This conflict is one in a series of conflicts dating back decades, with the same root cause. Do you deny that? How did you get on finding a year without a death? " Do you want to respond to the rest of the post? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Perhaps your argument is that Hamas is fighting a just war and should not be expected to stop just because their people are being killed (because of injustices committed pre-October 7th). That's a fair enough position to take. It's just not helpful to the innocents being killed. ...unless one feels that their martyrdom is a small price to pay for continuing the just war. Again, a fair enough position to take, given a certain world view. My argument is that either or both side can stop figuring at any given moment and I don’t particularly care which one chooses to do so, as long as one does. Every war ends around a table - they should hasten to that stage by any means." Your argument hasn't represented how you describe it here, up until now. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"In this scenario, Hamas wins and Israel loses (Hamas is in a better position than before they attacked/net winner, Israel is in a weaker position/net loser). Why would Israel have agreed to this, given that it (a) encourages further such incursions, and (b) strengthens Hamas for future attacks against Israel, from a stronger position than they were in pre-Oct 7th?" This is a large part of the problem. Israel has since the assassination of Yitzhak Rabin tried to maximize its dominance rather than exploit its advantage to build a genuine two-state solution. It's backfired. It will continue to backfire. If Israel had built on Oslo and strenghtened those Palestinians interested in peace things might have been very different. Instead they decided to try and divide and conquer. The result was Fatah looking like fools and Hamas looking like heros to those on the Palestinian side with the same kind of jaundiced view as Netanyahu. I very much hope I am completely wrong about Netanyahu's plan for the ethnic cleansing of Gaza because the negative consequences for the Palestinians, Israelis and the whole world would be serious. We'll probably know before the end of the year whether my prediction is correct or not. Youngsters and naive fans of Trump might want to google the Suez crisis and the Yom Kippur oil crisis for some context although the potential knock-on effects of an ethnic cleansing of Gaza could be far more profound than the global shocks caused by those events. Israel still has a chance to carefully walk back from the abyss. Not by trusting Hamas but by careful analysis of the potential costs of its future actions. Its security will not be improved by the ethnic cleansing of Gaza. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" My argument is that either or both side can stop figuring at any given moment and I don’t particularly care which one chooses to do so, as long as one does. " You're 100% right. The question being posed above is about why only one side is ever expected to give in to the other. Both sides have put deals on the table for the other to reject, but the outcry seems to go only in one direction. The most obvious answer (even if not correct) is that Israel is supposed to be a responsible state with Western (civilised) values, whereas Hamas are (uncivilised) terrorists, so of course we're not going to ask them to do the right thing. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Perhaps your argument is that Hamas is fighting a just war and should not be expected to stop just because their people are being killed (because of injustices committed pre-October 7th). That's a fair enough position to take. It's just not helpful to the innocents being killed. ...unless one feels that their martyrdom is a small price to pay for continuing the just war. Again, a fair enough position to take, given a certain world view. My argument is that either or both side can stop figuring at any given moment and I don’t particularly care which one chooses to do so, as long as one does. Every war ends around a table - they should hasten to that stage by any means. Your argument hasn't represented how you describe it here, up until now. " Mayhap that’s u*conscious bias on your part, because I believe I’ve not taken sides in this (except with the innocents being killed). The IDF and Hamas are both indefensible organisations given their behaviour for years now. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Perhaps your argument is that Hamas is fighting a just war and should not be expected to stop just because their people are being killed (because of injustices committed pre-October 7th). That's a fair enough position to take. It's just not helpful to the innocents being killed. ...unless one feels that their martyrdom is a small price to pay for continuing the just war. Again, a fair enough position to take, given a certain world view. My argument is that either or both side can stop figuring at any given moment and I don’t particularly care which one chooses to do so, as long as one does. Every war ends around a table - they should hasten to that stage by any means. Your argument hasn't represented how you describe it here, up until now. Mayhap that’s u*conscious bias on your part, because I believe I’ve not taken sides in this (except with the innocents being killed). The IDF and Hamas are both indefensible organisations given their behaviour for years now. " Let's see... Going back to the question that you have avoided, why do you think people or countries aren't putting the same pressures on Hamas as they are Israel. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The IDF and Hamas are both indefensible organisations given their behaviour for years now. " Gaza without Hamas: No blockade since 2008, demilitarised, no Jews since 2005, no Israeli airstrikes, +50,000 people, trade, jobs... Israel without the IDF: non-existent. Equating them is not really helpful. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The IDF and Hamas are both indefensible organisations given their behaviour for years now. Gaza without Hamas: No blockade since 2008, demilitarised, no Jews since 2005, no Israeli airstrikes, +50,000 people, trade, jobs... Israel without the IDF: non-existent. Equating them is not really helpful." So you believe the IDF get a free pass for indefensible behaviour, or no? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Perhaps your argument is that Hamas is fighting a just war and should not be expected to stop just because their people are being killed (because of injustices committed pre-October 7th). That's a fair enough position to take. It's just not helpful to the innocents being killed. ...unless one feels that their martyrdom is a small price to pay for continuing the just war. Again, a fair enough position to take, given a certain world view. My argument is that either or both side can stop figuring at any given moment and I don’t particularly care which one chooses to do so, as long as one does. Every war ends around a table - they should hasten to that stage by any means. Your argument hasn't represented how you describe it here, up until now. Mayhap that’s u*conscious bias on your part, because I believe I’ve not taken sides in this (except with the innocents being killed). The IDF and Hamas are both indefensible organisations given their behaviour for years now. Let's see... Going back to the question that you have avoided, why do you think people or countries aren't putting the same pressures on Hamas as they are Israel. " I have no idea what pressures are being put on. I’m not privy to those conversations any more than you are. Why do you seem so certain? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Perhaps your argument is that Hamas is fighting a just war and should not be expected to stop just because their people are being killed (because of injustices committed pre-October 7th). That's a fair enough position to take. It's just not helpful to the innocents being killed. ...unless one feels that their martyrdom is a small price to pay for continuing the just war. Again, a fair enough position to take, given a certain world view. My argument is that either or both side can stop figuring at any given moment and I don’t particularly care which one chooses to do so, as long as one does. Every war ends around a table - they should hasten to that stage by any means. Your argument hasn't represented how you describe it here, up until now. Mayhap that’s u*conscious bias on your part, because I believe I’ve not taken sides in this (except with the innocents being killed). The IDF and Hamas are both indefensible organisations given their behaviour for years now. Let's see... Going back to the question that you have avoided, why do you think people or countries aren't putting the same pressures on Hamas as they are Israel. I have no idea what pressures are being put on. I’m not privy to those conversations any more than you are. Why do you seem so certain?" I will leave it here.... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Gaza without Hamas: No blockade since 2008, demilitarised, no Jews since 2005, no Israeli airstrikes, +50,000 people, trade, jobs... Israel without the IDF: non-existent. Equating them is not really helpful." You think Gaza was not blockaded after 2008? In the protests against the blockade in 2018 the IDF killed 189 Palestinians in Gaza including two journalists and a medic. Over 1,400 people were shot multiple times in the legs. How many Israelis were injured in this protest? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Gaza without Hamas: No blockade since 2008, demilitarised, no Jews since 2005, no Israeli airstrikes, +50,000 people, trade, jobs... Israel without the IDF: non-existent. Equating them is not really helpful. You think Gaza was not blockaded after 2008? In the protests against the blockade in 2018 the IDF killed 189 Palestinians in Gaza including two journalists and a medic. Over 1,400 people were shot multiple times in the legs. How many Israelis were injured in this protest? " Israel has had Gaza under blockade since 2008, in response to the election of Hamas (on a platform of destroying Israel). | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has had Gaza under blockade since 2008, in response to the election of Hamas (on a platform of destroying Israel)." The border closures go back to 1991 with complete bans on all movement of people and goods for 342 days between 1993 and 1996 for instance. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" The IDF and Hamas are both indefensible organisations given their behaviour for years now. Gaza without Hamas: No blockade since 2008, demilitarised, no Jews since 2005, no Israeli airstrikes, +50,000 people, trade, jobs... Israel without the IDF: non-existent. Equating them is not really helpful. So you believe the IDF get a free pass for indefensible behaviour, or no?" Of course not. Any soldier, politician or commander committing or instigating war crimes should be prosecuted and face (real) justice. But equating the two organisations suggests a false equivalence. One is necessary to the survival of a state, one practically guarantees devastation of "its" people. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has had Gaza under blockade since 2008, in response to the election of Hamas (on a platform of destroying Israel). The border closures go back to 1991 with complete bans on all movement of people and goods for 342 days between 1993 and 1996 for instance. " That's not a blockade - there's still Egypt and sea... The total blockade by Israel and Egypt was in response to Hamas gaining control of Gaza. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"That's not a blockade - there's still Egypt and sea... The total blockade by Israel and Egypt was in response to Hamas gaining control of Gaza." The Rafah crossing between Egypt and Gaza was opened after the 1979 peace agreement but remained under Israeli control until 2005. People and goods could only move by permission of the Israelis. The Palestinian Navel Police based at the seaport were only allowed to go six miles from the coast then in 2002 the seaport was attacked by the Israelis, although between 2005 and 2007 some rebuilding was allowed. Israeli forces destroyed Gaza's airport in 2001. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Back on topic: Greta's vessel, "the Madleen is currently south of the Greek island of Crete and has taken a diversion to rescue four Sudanese asylum seekers from a ship in distress". https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.aljazeera.com/amp/news/liveblog/2025/6/4/madleen-gaza-flotilla-live-greta-thunberg-activists-to-arrive-on-june-7 " I wonder if the Greek government will prosecute them, assuming they take them to a Greek island. They have done it before. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"According to trt news looking into the new Israel/us so called humanitarian group it looks like Mossad and possibly the CIA have involvement in it. And using biometrics on waiting Palestinians queuing for food." USA have supplied all the bombs, over 100,000 tonnes apparently have fallen on Gazans. Uk raf has provided at least 518 surveillance sortees identifying targets. Sunak and then Starmer sanctioned this | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I expect the IDF will simply prevent the boat from entering territorial waters of Gaza, and force the boat into Israeli waters / port. If that is the outcome, I would not be surprised if the activists find themselves in an Israeli prison. Actions have consequences, they will soon learn that this isn’t a student protest on the streets of Europe. " Ahem.. this is what they did last time… firing and damaging the boats in international waters! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Are you claiming the actions of Hamas on October 7th were not the start of this war and the destruction that has followed. Things didn't begin in October 2023. The conflict has been going on since before 1948 with flare ups in 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973, 1982, 2006, 2008, 2014, 2021 and that's not counting the two intifadas. Overall direct casualties are about 10,000 Israelis and 100,000 Palestinians according to wiki (no doubt the final numbers will be the subject of research in coming years). In 2023 before 7th October the IDF killed 234 Palestinians in the West Bank (not Gaza) and settlers another 9. " PennineTop how do you conveniently forget the 1929 Hebron massacre of Jews by Muslims long before the state of Israel was founded The root cause of this conflict is Muslim hatred of Jews and that has been around since they started. Apartheid and occupation are useful terms bandied about by anti Israelis but they ignore the enormous elephant in the room | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"PennineTop how do you conveniently forget the 1929 Hebron massacre of Jews by Muslims long before the state of Israel was founded The root cause of this conflict is Muslim hatred of Jews and that has been around since they started. Apartheid and occupation are useful terms bandied about by anti Israelis but they ignore the enormous elephant in the room " If you check what I wrote I said the conflict began before 1948. I haven't conveniently forgotten anything. I'm perfectly aware of how horrific antisemitism is and has been. I'm not here to absolve anyone, especially not barbarians like Hamas. All I'm doing is trying to balance the conversation with counter arguments to the propaganda put out by the current Israeli government. We need to learn lessons from history and this includes realising that innocent people must not be punished for the crimes of others. I want Israel to flourish and have security but this will only happen if the Palestinians have the same rights as Israelis expect for themselves. The current path that the Israeli government seems to be on will not increase the security of Israel. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I expect the IDF will simply prevent the boat from entering territorial waters of Gaza, and force the boat into Israeli waters / port. If that is the outcome, I would not be surprised if the activists find themselves in an Israeli prison. Actions have consequences, they will soon learn that this isn’t a student protest on the streets of Europe. Ahem.. this is what they did last time… firing and damaging the boats in international waters! " I said, "I expect the IDF will simply prevent the boat from entering territorial waters of Gaza, and force the boat into Israeli waters / port". I don't expect a drone attack, do you? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe Israel has enjoyed the subconscious blind eye don't speak out or criticize the Israel because of the treatment of Jews during ww2 and have used it to their advantage. Mossad have carried out many killings in other countries for years and their hatred for the Palestinians seems almost the same as the nazi's had for the Jews. But Netanyahu and his right wing cronies have gone to far not only in Gaza but the occupied west bank which so many people seem to forget." Do you think Hamas should be put under international pressure to stop the fighting? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe Israel has enjoyed the subconscious blind eye don't speak out or criticize the Israel because of the treatment of Jews during ww2 and have used it to their advantage." That's not true - no other country on this planet attracts as much international scrutiny as Israel. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe Israel has enjoyed the subconscious blind eye don't speak out or criticize the Israel because of the treatment of Jews during ww2 and have used it to their advantage. Mossad have carried out many killings in other countries for years and their hatred for the Palestinians seems almost the same as the nazi's had for the Jews. But Netanyahu and his right wing cronies have gone to far not only in Gaza but the occupied west bank which so many people seem to forget. Do you think Hamas should be put under international pressure to stop the fighting?" absolutely I've said in previous posts I have no sympathy for hamas or their ideology. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe Israel has enjoyed the subconscious blind eye don't speak out or criticize the Israel because of the treatment of Jews during ww2 and have used it to their advantage. Mossad have carried out many killings in other countries for years and their hatred for the Palestinians seems almost the same as the nazi's had for the Jews. But Netanyahu and his right wing cronies have gone to far not only in Gaza but the occupied west bank which so many people seem to forget. Do you think Hamas should be put under international pressure to stop the fighting? absolutely I've said in previous posts I have no sympathy for hamas or their ideology." Why don't we see protests in our cities calling for an end of Hamas rule, in the same way we see protests demanding the end of Israel occupying land and Israeli war efforts? I have seen Israeli demonstrations calling for the release of hostages and counter free Palestine protests, but nothing directly calling on Hamas to stop their fighting. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe Israel has enjoyed the subconscious blind eye don't speak out or criticize the Israel because of the treatment of Jews during ww2 and have used it to their advantage. Mossad have carried out many killings in other countries for years and their hatred for the Palestinians seems almost the same as the nazi's had for the Jews. But Netanyahu and his right wing cronies have gone to far not only in Gaza but the occupied west bank which so many people seem to forget. Do you think Hamas should be put under international pressure to stop the fighting? absolutely I've said in previous posts I have no sympathy for hamas or their ideology. Why don't we see protests in our cities calling for an end of Hamas rule, in the same way we see protests demanding the end of Israel occupying land and Israeli war efforts? I have seen Israeli demonstrations calling for the release of hostages and counter free Palestine protests, but nothing directly calling on Hamas to stop their fighting. " Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe Israel has enjoyed the subconscious blind eye don't speak out or criticize the Israel because of the treatment of Jews during ww2 and have used it to their advantage. Mossad have carried out many killings in other countries for years and their hatred for the Palestinians seems almost the same as the nazi's had for the Jews. But Netanyahu and his right wing cronies have gone to far not only in Gaza but the occupied west bank which so many people seem to forget." What’s more concerning is the world is watching on and doing nothing about it. Gaza has been turned into the biggest concentration camp since Auschwitz with similar practices of prevention of aid and food and killing inhabitants under siege | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I believe Israel has enjoyed the subconscious blind eye don't speak out or criticize the Israel because of the treatment of Jews during ww2 and have used it to their advantage. Mossad have carried out many killings in other countries for years and their hatred for the Palestinians seems almost the same as the nazi's had for the Jews. But Netanyahu and his right wing cronies have gone to far not only in Gaza but the occupied west bank which so many people seem to forget. What’s more concerning is the world is watching on and doing nothing about it. Gaza has been turned into the biggest concentration camp since Auschwitz with similar practices of prevention of aid and food and killing inhabitants under siege " on channel 4 news its emerged that the Israeli government have armed a jihadi militant group to cause trouble with hamas when asked about it the Israeli government minister refused to deny it! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ... Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x" Even if all religions were to eventual become extinct, you can bet that different groups of people will find somthing that they don't like about others, in order to justify a good fight. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ... Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x Even if all religions were to eventual become extinct, you can bet that different groups of people will find somthing that they don't like about others, in order to justify a good fight." A good fight as you put it is one thing. Wishing to murder every man, woman and child in “a different group” is something else entirely | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ... Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x Even if all religions were to eventual become extinct, you can bet that different groups of people will find somthing that they don't like about others, in order to justify a good fight. A good fight as you put it is one thing. Wishing to murder every man, woman and child in “a different group” is something else entirely " Which religion wants to do that, then? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ... Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x Even if all religions were to eventual become extinct, you can bet that different groups of people will find somthing that they don't like about others, in order to justify a good fight. A good fight as you put it is one thing. Wishing to murder every man, woman and child in “a different group” is something else entirely Which religion wants to do that, then? " Who said a religion wants to do that? It seems more a "group of people", from the conversation. Possibly a subset of a religion or tribal group, from the context. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ... Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x Even if all religions were to eventual become extinct, you can bet that different groups of people will find somthing that they don't like about others, in order to justify a good fight. A good fight as you put it is one thing. Wishing to murder every man, woman and child in “a different group” is something else entirely Which religion wants to do that, then? Who said a religion wants to do that? It seems more a "group of people", from the conversation. Possibly a subset of a religion or tribal group, from the context." Indeed, it could be. It’s so alarming when one sees regular comments like ‘religion of peace strikes again’ in response to attacks and so forth, isn’t it? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ... Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x Even if all religions were to eventual become extinct, you can bet that different groups of people will find somthing that they don't like about others, in order to justify a good fight. A good fight as you put it is one thing. Wishing to murder every man, woman and child in “a different group” is something else entirely Which religion wants to do that, then? Who said a religion wants to do that? It seems more a "group of people", from the conversation. Possibly a subset of a religion or tribal group, from the context. Indeed, it could be. It’s so alarming when one sees regular comments like ‘religion of peace strikes again’ in response to attacks and so forth, isn’t it? " just as alarming when ones see attacks made in the name of religion. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" ... Do you think it might be a religious thing? Mrs x Even if all religions were to eventual become extinct, you can bet that different groups of people will find somthing that they don't like about others, in order to justify a good fight. A good fight as you put it is one thing. Wishing to murder every man, woman and child in “a different group” is something else entirely Which religion wants to do that, then? Who said a religion wants to do that? It seems more a "group of people", from the conversation. Possibly a subset of a religion or tribal group, from the context. Indeed, it could be. It’s so alarming when one sees regular comments like ‘religion of peace strikes again’ in response to attacks and so forth, isn’t it? just as alarming when ones see attacks made in the name of religion. " Indeed. We should accept the inherent flaws in individuals who seek to use a religion as cover for evil, just as readily as we should cast aside those who retaliate with hatred against innocents. But the bigots who hate upon a whole religion need those attacks in order to justify their hate, just as readily as those who seek to attack need the loathing of those bigots to justify their so-called ‘holy war’ This isn’t about any particular religion, just a playbook that’s existed for hundreds of years. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" But the bigots who hate upon a whole religion need those attacks in order to justify their hate, just as readily as those who seek to attack need the loathing of those bigots to justify their so-called ‘holy war’ This isn’t about any particular religion, just a playbook that’s existed for hundreds of years. " In all probability (although you'd need to ask the posters), given the context of this thread, the group was a reference to Hamas, who included the following text in their charter: "Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." This is probably the "individuals who seek to use a religion as cover for evil" that your mention. But it was not bigotry that produced this mindset, much like it was not bigotry that produced white supremacism or the Crusades. It's a sense of righteous entitlement. Some aspects of some religions have a lot to answer for. Especially evangelical ones, where people get a little overeager. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the woman aboard that irks you so? I see no condemnation for the man Liam Cunningham." And special mention needs to go to Thiago Avila, who is also aboard the ship. He's on video chanting "Allahu Akbar! Death to America! Death to Israel! Victory to Islam!", and had attended the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah until recently). | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the woman aboard that irks you so? I see no condemnation for the man Liam Cunningham. And special mention needs to go to Thiago Avila, who is also aboard the ship. He's on video chanting "Allahu Akbar! Death to America! Death to Israel! Victory to Islam!", and had attended the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah until recently). " Hamas charter: 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15) 'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about. 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the woman aboard that irks you so? I see no condemnation for the man Liam Cunningham. And special mention needs to go to Thiago Avila, who is also aboard the ship. He's on video chanting "Allahu Akbar! Death to America! Death to Israel! Victory to Islam!", and had attended the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah until recently). Hamas charter: 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15) 'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about. 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' " Not exactly the ideal dinner party guests then. What I've never understood is why so many people refer to a religion that was founded on the back of conquest and war as a religion of peace.  | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the woman aboard that irks you so? I see no condemnation for the man Liam Cunningham. And special mention needs to go to Thiago Avila, who is also aboard the ship. He's on video chanting "Allahu Akbar! Death to America! Death to Israel! Victory to Islam!", and had attended the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah until recently). Hamas charter: 'The day the enemies usurp part of Moslem land, Jihad becomes the individual duty of every Moslem. In the face of the Jews' usurpation, it is compulsory that the banner of Jihad be raised.' (Article 15) 'Ranks will close, fighters joining other fighters, and masses everywhere in the Islamic world will come forward in response to the call of duty, loudly proclaiming: 'Hail to Jihad!'. This cry will reach the heavens and will go on being resounded until liberation is achieved, the invaders vanquished and Allah's victory comes about. 'The Day of Judgment will not come about until Moslems fight Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: 'O Moslem, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.' Not exactly the ideal dinner party guests then. What I've never understood is why so many people refer to a religion that was founded on the back of conquest and war as a religion of peace. "And on a Negotiated Peace Settlement 'Peace initiatives, and so-called peaceful solutions and international conferences are in contradiction to the principles of the Islamic Resistance Movement. Those conferences are no more than a means to appoint the infidels as arbitrators in the lands of Islam. There is no solution for the Palestinian problem except by Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are but a waste of time, an exercise in futility.' (Article 13) | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Why is it the woman aboard that irks you so? I see no condemnation for the man Liam Cunningham. And special mention needs to go to Thiago Avila, who is also aboard the ship. He's on video chanting "Allahu Akbar! Death to America! Death to Israel! Victory to Islam!", and had attended the funeral of Hassan Nasrallah (head of Hezbollah until recently). " Sailing into real trouble with such an extremist onboard... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has ordered their navy to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza." Will hopefully sink them.👍 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I do wonder if they should not just be left to sort it all themselves " The main actor is the USA. If they suddenly and completely withdrew support for Israel it would be a total disaster for Israel. What's needed instead is for all sides to implement last year's UN Security Council Resolution 2735. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has ordered their navy to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza. Will hopefully sink them.👍" Do you really hope that she and her compatriots are killed? Is that really who you are? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has ordered their navy to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza. Will hopefully sink them.👍" I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hamas or the Houthi tooties sink them and try to blame it on the IDF. It would be a terrible loss to humanity. On a slight side note, some reports have said that the boat she's "sailing" on hasn't once raised its sails and is travelling on diesel engines only. Has she given up on the green thing for a more popular money-making "cause"? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I do wonder if they should not just be left to sort it all themselves The main actor is the USA. If they suddenly and completely withdrew support for Israel it would be a total disaster for Israel. What's needed instead is for all sides to implement last year's UN Security Council Resolution 2735. " What do you mean when you say “total disaster”? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has ordered their navy to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza. Will hopefully sink them.👍 Do you really hope that she and her compatriots are killed? Is that really who you are?" 👀 It’s who a lot of people secretly are. It’s who even more are, just not so secretly. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you mean when you say “total disaster”?" The US essentially underwrites Israeli security. Part of this is in the form of about $4 billion a year but the US gets most of this back as Israel spends almost all the money on US military equipment. Then there's intelligence, political support, vetos in the Security Council and such like. But the most important thing is that the USA implicitly guarantees that anyone who presents a serious threat to Israel will be dealt with by overwhelming military power. If this guarantee were to suddenly disappear then the most immediate impact could be full-scale war with Lebanon. But this isn't actually ever going to happen as Netanyahu isn't stupid enough to seriously insult Trump and the USA will continue its support indefinitely. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has ordered their navy to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza. Will hopefully sink them.👍 I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hamas or the Houthi tooties sink them and try to blame it on the IDF. It would be a terrible loss to humanity. On a slight side note, some reports have said that the boat she's "sailing" on hasn't once raised its sails and is travelling on diesel engines only. Has she given up on the green thing for a more popular money-making "cause"?" Supporting Palestinian lives is famously such a popular money making cause. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What do you mean when you say “total disaster”? The US essentially underwrites Israeli security. Part of this is in the form of about $4 billion a year but the US gets most of this back as Israel spends almost all the money on US military equipment. Then there's intelligence, political support, vetos in the Security Council and such like. But the most important thing is that the USA implicitly guarantees that anyone who presents a serious threat to Israel will be dealt with by overwhelming military power. If this guarantee were to suddenly disappear then the most immediate impact could be full-scale war with Lebanon. But this isn't actually ever going to happen as Netanyahu isn't stupid enough to seriously insult Trump and the USA will continue its support indefinitely. " So what you’re saying is that America is stopping Israel’s neighbours from invading and killing them all off? But you phrased it as if you wanted that to happen. That you want the US to stop giving them aid and support? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has ordered their navy to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza. Will hopefully sink them.👍 I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hamas or the Houthi tooties sink them and try to blame it on the IDF. It would be a terrible loss to humanity. On a slight side note, some reports have said that the boat she's "sailing" on hasn't once raised its sails and is travelling on diesel engines only. Has she given up on the green thing for a more popular money-making "cause"? Supporting Palestinian lives is famously such a popular money making cause. " It has been for the leaders of Hamas. Living like kings in luxury in Qatar, they seem to be doing very well out of the situation. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" If this guarantee were to suddenly disappear then the most immediate impact could be full-scale war with Lebanon. " Nobody in the region would attack, especially Lebanon nowadays (since Hezbollah was weakened). Because without precision munitions, those countries would discover the true (not confected) meaning of indiscriminate bombing. If up against the wall, in an existential war, there would be no ICC threat big enough to stop real devastation. Countries in the region would have one chance, and it would need to be coordinated, swift, brutal and decisive. Otherwise it's curtains for them. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"So what you’re saying is that America is stopping Israel’s neighbours from invading and killing them all off? But you phrased it as if you wanted that to happen. That you want the US to stop giving them aid and support? " No I didn't. You said "I do wonder if they should not just be left to sort it all themselves " I responded with... "The main actor is the USA. If they suddenly and completely withdrew support for Israel it would be a total disaster for Israel. What's needed instead is for all sides to implement last year's UN Security Council Resolution 2735." In an earlier post I wrote... "I want Israel to flourish and have security but this will only happen if the Palestinians have the same rights as Israelis expect for themselves. The current path that the Israeli government seems to be on will not increase the security of Israel." I want to see a lasting peace in the region with both Israelis and Palestians living in peace, prosperity and security. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nobody in the region would attack, especially Lebanon nowadays (since Hezbollah was weakened). Because without precision munitions, those countries would discover the true (not confected) meaning of indiscriminate bombing. If up against the wall, in an existential war, there would be no ICC threat big enough to stop real devastation. Countries in the region would have one chance, and it would need to be coordinated, swift, brutal and decisive. Otherwise it's curtains for them." I'm not a military analyst but I think the last thing Israel would want would be a full-scale attack from Lebanon (possibly combined with Iranian proxies attacking on other fronts). Israel is struggling to defeat Hamas. I said earlier that the US provides $4 billion in arms a year to Israel but last year this more than quadrupled as the Israelis were running out of bombs. Anyway this is all academic. The USA isn't going to withdraw its support. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" I'm not a military analyst but I think the last thing Israel would want would be a full-scale attack from Lebanon (possibly combined with Iranian proxies attacking on other fronts). " That is indeed the last thing that Israel wants. However, politics in Lebanon have changed radically over the past couple of years. The government had been pushing back against Iran in a way that was unthinkable two years ago. Syria (between Lebanon and Iran) has also become extremely hostile to Iran/Alawites/Shi'ites and the arms route from Iran to Lebanon has been almost completely dismantled. " Israel is struggling to defeat Hamas. " They're not struggling to defeat Hamas. They're struggling to do that while keeping civilian casualties "acceptable". If Israel didn't care about civilians (or possibly hostages), they would have defeated Hamas in about a week. " I said earlier that the US $4 billion in arms a year to Israel but last year this more than quadrupled as the Israelis were running out of bombs. Anyway this is all academic. The USA isn't going to withdraw its support. " Probably, but "nothing is written". | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Nobody in the region would attack, especially Lebanon nowadays (since Hezbollah was weakened). Because without precision munitions, those countries would discover the true (not confected) meaning of indiscriminate bombing. If up against the wall, in an existential war, there would be no ICC threat big enough to stop real devastation. Countries in the region would have one chance, and it would need to be coordinated, swift, brutal and decisive. Otherwise it's curtains for them. I'm not a military analyst but I think the last thing Israel would want would be a full-scale attack from Lebanon (possibly combined with Iranian proxies attacking on other fronts). Israel is struggling to defeat Hamas. I said earlier that the US provides $4 billion in arms a year to Israel but last year this more than quadrupled as the Israelis were running out of bombs. Anyway this is all academic. The USA isn't going to withdraw its support. " Israel has already fought full scale wars against a coalition of Rab countries before it took a whole 6 days to beat them in 1967, so I think Iarael must be 'shitting' itself if it happened today, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Israel has ordered their navy to stop the flotilla reaching Gaza. Will hopefully sink them.👍 I wouldn't be at all surprised if Hamas or the Houthi tooties sink them and try to blame it on the IDF. It would be a terrible loss to humanity. On a slight side note, some reports have said that the boat she's "sailing" on hasn't once raised its sails and is travelling on diesel engines only. Has she given up on the green thing for a more popular money-making "cause"? Supporting Palestinian lives is famously such a popular money making cause. It has been for the leaders of Hamas. Living like kings in luxury in Qatar, they seem to be doing very well out of the situation. Mrs x" Was the same for the PLO. Arafat and his cronies were stupendously corrupt. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think people are over estimating what Israel's military strength would be without US support " Given that Israeli's GDP (500bn) is bigger than the combined GDP of all neighbouring countries: Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan... That 5bn of direct military aid (possibly 20bn overall) is definitely very helpful indeed, but isn't necessarily the be all and end all. But Israel certainly doesn't want to lose (a) tech access, and (b) political shielding. " One idea might be that Israel could use its nukes. " 
Now, that's an escalation. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think people are over estimating what Israel's military strength would be without US support Given that Israeli's GDP (500bn) is bigger than the combined GDP of all neighbouring countries: Lebanon, Egypt, Syria and Jordan... That 5bn of direct military aid (possibly 20bn overall) is definitely very helpful indeed, but isn't necessarily the be all and end all. But Israel certainly doesn't want to lose (a) tech access, and (b) political shielding. One idea might be that Israel could use its nukes.
Now, that's an escalation."Israel is a very rich state x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" But it's a very small country with limited ability to produce arms for itself. Without the USA it might even be vulnerable to blockade. " Haha. That's one very brave naval crew! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"But it's a very small country with limited ability to produce arms for itself. Without the USA it might even be vulnerable to blockade." and yet, in 1948, it beat off five Arab nations with only one gun for every three soldiers. 😉 | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"and yet, in 1948, it beat off five Arab nations with only one gun for every three soldiers. 😉" Which might illustrate that the threat from four of the seven Arab League countries and a few thousand volunteers wasn't particularly serious. Besides by this time Truman and Stalin had both recognized the declaration of independence so it was already a fait accompli. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Leave her at it. She’s doing more to help Than we are here posting our thoughts online, not making a slight bit of difference." She is an entitled, uneducated young women who is supported and surrounded by similar fanatics who support and enable her continued crusade. As a young girl calling attention to environmental issues, she was charming and effective… now she is just on of the unwashed. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What a surprise the IDF say they only fired warning shots yet some how kill 5 and injured another 100 at at their shooting range I.e. Gaza aid distribution centre." What a surprise that when you get two militant groups of opposing ideologies, you have bloodshed… Proportionately, we have greater conflict during a premier league derby match. Until pro-Palestine does not mean pro-Hamas, the IDF should not quit. Hamas is a terrorist organisation and while collateral damage is sad, it is a fact of war and people who live in bubble wrap who sprout platitudes about the unjust nature of the conflict from their armchairs of Britain, having never lived in the Middle East, really need to be a little less confident that backing a population that keep Hamas in power. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"What a surprise the IDF say they only fired warning shots yet some how kill 5 and injured another 100 at at their shooting range I.e. Gaza aid distribution centre." What a surprise that when you get two militant groups of opposing ideologies, you have bloodshed… Proportionately, we have greater conflict during a premier league derby match. Until pro-Palestine does not mean pro-Hamas, the IDF should not quit. Hamas is a terrorist organisation and while collateral damage is sad, it is a fact of war and people who live in bubble wrap who sprout platitudes about the unjust nature of the conflict from their armchairs of Britain, having never lived in the Middle East, really need to be a little less confident that backing a population that keep Hamas in power is the right thing. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I think people are over estimating what Israel's military strength would be without US support. One idea might be that Israel could use its nukes. Reportedly about 70,000 tonnes of high explosives have already been dropped on Gaza. The bomb dropped on Hiroshima was equivalent to about 12,000 tonnes. As far as I know Israel has A-bombs not H-bombs so their yields will also be in the kilotonne range so in all-out war they might need to use lots of them. The possible military, political and environmental implications of Israeli use of nukes are hard to comprehend." You do realise that if 70,000 tonnes of bombs have been dropped on Gaza then its not been a particularly effective way of killing Gazans. If Gazan deaths were all caused by bombing then that means for every ton of bombs dropped only 1.35 people died. That seems a lot of bombs dropped for such few casualties. It's even fewer when you consider that lots of deaths have been caused by shootings. So this figure reduces. Maybe the IDF are not always targeting people when they drop these bombs. Maybe that's why the numbers are so low. Think about how big one ton of explosives looks like and then think about it only killing 1.35 of the intended targets. Maybe the IDF are telling the truth when they say they are targeting Hamas infrastructure and not the civilian population. Just something to think about, Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"According to the Gaza Ministry of Health 54,607 have been killed so that would mean that each tonne of explosives has killed less than one person (0.7801 of a person). The purpose of the bombing isn't to kill as many people as possible but to make Gaza uninhabitable." 70,000 ÷ 54,647 = 1.28. If it was 0.781 then that would only require 42,679 tonnes of bombs. It's not to make Gaza uninhabitable, do you think that if Israel achieves all its objects it intends to leave Gaza, empty, a dead zone? I dont think that's the plan. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"According to the Gaza Ministry of Health 54,607 have been killed so that would mean that each tonne of explosives has killed less than one person (0.7801 of a person). The purpose of the bombing isn't to kill as many people as possible but to make Gaza uninhabitable.70,000 ÷ 54,647 = 1.28. If it was 0.781 then that would only require 42,679 tonnes of bombs. It's not to make Gaza uninhabitable, do you think that if Israel achieves all its objects it intends to leave Gaza, empty, a dead zone? I dont think that's the plan. Mrs x" Sorry my bad, you are right, its less than one person killed per tonne of bombs. Math is not my strong point, its the blonde in me haha However that makes my point even stronger, its been a terribly in efficient way of killing the population in Gaza. The Israelis are trying to eradicate the infrastructure Hamas are using. That's the purpose of the bombing. Mrs x | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| back to top |  |
