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"Politics lounge is down there a few scrolls. " | |||
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"Cya" So Happy Tories out | |||
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"Cya So Happy Tories out" Why? Out of the frying pan into the fire is my thought. | |||
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"Cya So Happy Tories out Why? Out of the frying pan into the fire is my thought." Sometimes you still need to change your frying pan in case it becomes carcinogenic | |||
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"Cya So Happy Tories out Why? Out of the frying pan into the fire is my thought. Sometimes you still need to change your frying pan in case it becomes carcinogenic "By buying a new more toxic one that will cost you more money every year? | |||
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"Cya So Happy Tories out Why? Out of the frying pan into the fire is my thought. Sometimes you still need to change your frying pan in case it becomes carcinogenic
By buying a new more toxic one that will cost you more money every year?"It might but that actually depends on what happens with the world economy. If things pick up the exchequer will start filling and provide headroom to avoid tax rises. It worked in the 90s/00s. | |||
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"Mmmm have been around quite a while now and have witnessed several governments being great at one time until they eventually slide downhill and get booted, even the mighty Winston got shown the door a short time after the 2nd world war but he came back I think, with all the termoil over the last few years the Tories may have done a fantastic job for all we know only it doesn't feel like it, and it was us the great british public who took the decision to go for brexit, similar to now we have decided on a labour government. I don't think anyone is going to be much better off any time soon unless we get off our butts and make it better for ourselves." | |||
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"Labour didn't win the election the Conservatives lost it! Tory voters stayed at home or voted reform. If the Conservatives sort themselves out they will be back in government " Exactly this Reform votes (4.1m) equivalent to 60% of Tory votes (6.8m) and 42% of Labour (9.7m) Remarkable for a new Reform campaign. | |||
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"Cya So Happy Tories out Why? Out of the frying pan into the fire is my thought." I get the feeling they are all as bad as each other, just a different coloured logo. I would like to be proven wrong though. | |||
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"Labour didn't win the election the Conservatives lost it! Tory voters stayed at home or voted reform. If the Conservatives sort themselves out they will be back in government Exactly this Reform votes (4.1m) equivalent to 60% of Tory votes (6.8m) and 42% of Labour (9.7m) Remarkable for a new Reform campaign. " Reform got a huge disproportionate amount of airtime on the Beeb, in the papers, everywhere. | |||
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"Labour didn't win the election the Conservatives lost it! Tory voters stayed at home or voted reform. If the Conservatives sort themselves out they will be back in government Exactly this Reform votes (4.1m) equivalent to 60% of Tory votes (6.8m) and 42% of Labour (9.7m) Remarkable for a new Reform campaign. Reform got a huge disproportionate amount of airtime on the Beeb, in the papers, everywhere. " Didn't they get the 3rd highest vote share? In which case they should've received a commensurate amount of coverage surely? | |||
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"Labour didn't win the election the Conservatives lost it! Tory voters stayed at home or voted reform. If the Conservatives sort themselves out they will be back in government Exactly this Reform votes (4.1m) equivalent to 60% of Tory votes (6.8m) and 42% of Labour (9.7m) Remarkable for a new Reform campaign. Reform got a huge disproportionate amount of airtime on the Beeb, in the papers, everywhere. Didn't they get the 3rd highest vote share? In which case they should've received a commensurate amount of coverage surely?" The coverage came before the election. | |||
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"They'll be back" The will. It'll be interesting to see if they lean even more into the division, anti-immigrant, and culture wars stuff to appeal to Reform voters, or if they try to return to grown up politics. | |||
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"Yes. They will be back. And on a more centrist platform again. But like they did before, they will start to fragment and the 'right' factions will demand more and more unpalatable policies. But Labour will do exactly the same. It's in the nature of the Politics of this country, most European democracies, actually. Time and Power emboldens those who seek it. I'm sure that many have read 'Lord of the Flies'? It applies as perfectly now as when it was first published." Those (private) coalitions giving us stable govts with easy legislative decisions making gifted us by FPTP  | |||
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"They'll be back" They will, as a centre right, electable party that is slowly held to ransom by an increasingly batshit hard right element which will drag them down. | |||
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"They'll be back They will, as a centre right, electable party that is slowly held to ransom by an increasingly batshit hard right element which will drag them down." One reason they lost is that they were way too far left. Effectively "Labour Lite". This, and the constant infighting, meant that they were totally ineffective and failed to deliver on any promises. | |||
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"They'll be back They will, as a centre right, electable party that is slowly held to ransom by an increasingly batshit hard right element which will drag them down. One reason they lost is that they were way too far left. Effectively "Labour Lite". This, and the constant infighting, meant that they were totally ineffective and failed to deliver on any promises." This is the sort of opinion that will keep them out of power, bravo, keep it up. | |||
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"They'll be back They will, as a centre right, electable party that is slowly held to ransom by an increasingly batshit hard right element which will drag them down. One reason they lost is that they were way too far left. Effectively "Labour Lite". This, and the constant infighting, meant that they were totally ineffective and failed to deliver on any promises." Blimey. They didn't crush ordinary people enough with austerity, didn't allow ultra wealthy to use tax havens enough, didn't attack minority groups enough, didn't blame foreigners enough? The Tories were as far to the right as they have been in my lifetime. Not sure what else they could have done to shift even further. | |||
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"They'll be back They will, as a centre right, electable party that is slowly held to ransom by an increasingly batshit hard right element which will drag them down. One reason they lost is that they were way too far left. Effectively "Labour Lite". This, and the constant infighting, meant that they were totally ineffective and failed to deliver on any promises. Blimey. They didn't crush ordinary people enough with austerity, didn't allow ultra wealthy to use tax havens enough, didn't attack minority groups enough, didn't blame foreigners enough? The Tories were as far to the right as they have been in my lifetime. Not sure what else they could have done to shift even further. " They failed to implement Brexit properly. They failed to deal with immigration, legal and illegal. They raised taxes to the highest level in generations. They spent money like water on covid and energy support. They failed to sort out the NHS, elderly care, roads, crime etc. They wasted billions on the useless HS2 project. No trace of right wing policies. | |||
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"They'll be back They will, as a centre right, electable party that is slowly held to ransom by an increasingly batshit hard right element which will drag them down. One reason they lost is that they were way too far left. Effectively "Labour Lite". This, and the constant infighting, meant that they were totally ineffective and failed to deliver on any promises. Blimey. They didn't crush ordinary people enough with austerity, didn't allow ultra wealthy to use tax havens enough, didn't attack minority groups enough, didn't blame foreigners enough? The Tories were as far to the right as they have been in my lifetime. Not sure what else they could have done to shift even further. They failed to implement Brexit properly. " They did, a small number of people got very rich. This was the main aim. Besides, that doesn't make them leftwing, or rightwing. " They failed to deal with immigration, legal and illegal. " The delt with legal immigration by increasing numbers because it's what the country needs. But the were right wing about it, constantly blaming and attacking immigrants, stoking hate and fear. " They raised taxes to the highest level in generations. " Disproportionately on ordinary people. Which is more right wing than left wing. " They spent money like water on covid and energy support. " The made their rich pals richer, definitely not a left wing trait. And they continued their support of fossil fuel company profits over everything else. Again, a right wing approach. " They failed to sort out the NHS, elderly care, roads, crime etc. " Correct, this doesn't make them left or right. " They wasted billions on the useless HS2 project. " Yes, again neither a right or left wing trait. " No trace of right wing policies." I mean, you mentioned a few there. What even more right wing policies would you have envisioned them putting in? | |||
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"Tories will be back and I may vote for them if they friggin get their acts together and be actual Tories" What does an actual Tory look like in your book? | |||
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"Tories will be back and I may vote for them if they friggin get their acts together and be actual Tories What does an actual Tory look like in your book? " I'm a Tory... Go for it | |||
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"And the worse water pollution ever" We don't have the worst water pollution ever. It used to be much worse, but we can't prove that because no one was monitoring it until very recently. Back in 2010, when the upgrade programme started, only 7% of sewage overflows were fitted with monitors to detect overspills. Last year we managed to get to 100% coverage. What you are seeing isn't a massive rise in pollution, it's a massive rise in the monitoring of the water companies. | |||
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"We don't have the worst water pollution ever. It used to be much worse, but we can't prove that because no one was monitoring it until very recently." How do you know that is true then? Increased monitoring and detecting does not automatically mean it used to be worse. How do you know and evidence that? | |||
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"We don't have the worst water pollution ever. It used to be much worse, but we can't prove that because no one was monitoring it until very recently. How do you know that is true then? Increased monitoring and detecting does not automatically mean it used to be worse. How do you know and evidence that?" good point well made | |||
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"We don't have the worst water pollution ever. It used to be much worse, but we can't prove that because no one was monitoring it until very recently." "How do you know that is true then? Increased monitoring and detecting does not automatically mean it used to be worse. How do you know and evidence that?" I personally know what it used to be like off Blackpool in the 80s, and how much it has improved after the massive new treatment works was built, and the outflow pipe was lengthened by a mile. If you have no evidence of your own, just look at the list of blue flag beaches, and how the number has grown over recent years. | |||
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"We don't have the worst water pollution ever. It used to be much worse, but we can't prove that because no one was monitoring it until very recently. How do you know that is true then? Increased monitoring and detecting does not automatically mean it used to be worse. How do you know and evidence that? I personally know what it used to be like off Blackpool in the 80s, and how much it has improved after the massive new treatment works was built, and the outflow pipe was lengthened by a mile. If you have no evidence of your own, just look at the list of blue flag beaches, and how the number has grown over recent years." Not saying you are wrong but does that now mean anecdotal evidence from a sample of one is now proof? All I know is while things may have got better over time (as they should have done if we were to believe the advocates of privatisation) then in the more recent pass that definitely turned the other way and has gotten worse! Lived in Brighton area over 10 years and only had shit in the sea in last couple. | |||
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"Not saying you are wrong but does that now mean anecdotal evidence from a sample of one is now proof?" Absolutely not, but someone asked how I know, and that was how I know. If you want real evidence, go look at the blue flag beaches, as I said above. "All I know is while things may have got better over time (as they should have done if we were to believe the advocates of privatisation) then in the more recent pass that definitely turned the other way and has gotten worse! Lived in Brighton area over 10 years and only had shit in the sea in last couple." That's interesting. I've not previously found anyone that has personal experience of things getting worse. Everyone else I've spoken to about it has just assumed that things are getting worse, based on the increasing numbers of overspill events, and the shoddy media reporting of those figures. | |||
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"Not saying you are wrong but does that now mean anecdotal evidence from a sample of one is now proof? Absolutely not, but someone asked how I know, and that was how I know. If you want real evidence, go look at the blue flag beaches, as I said above. All I know is while things may have got better over time (as they should have done if we were to believe the advocates of privatisation) then in the more recent pass that definitely turned the other way and has gotten worse! Lived in Brighton area over 10 years and only had shit in the sea in last couple. That's interesting. I've not previously found anyone that has personal experience of things getting worse. Everyone else I've spoken to about it has just assumed that things are getting worse, based on the increasing numbers of overspill events, and the shoddy media reporting of those figures." Going with the anecdotal evidence from a sample of one approach, ie me… For years a dip in the sea off Brighton and Hove was a pleasure all year round (tradition to have a cold dip on xmas day - not for the feint hearted). I enjoyed it for several years after first moving here. Last few years there have been too many days where the sea is visibly brown. Paddle borders are cleaning brown tide marks off their boards regularly. I am not going in any more. | |||
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"That's interesting. I've not previously found anyone that has personal experience of things getting worse. Everyone else I've spoken to about it has just assumed that things are getting worse, based on the increasing numbers of overspill events, and the shoddy media reporting of those figures." ok, it appears that you come from pengam, so you'll be familiar with ogmore-by-sea, probably even swam there. well recently there is no swimming allowed because fo the shit levels. anecdotal proof? checkmate! | |||
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"ok, it appears that you come from pengam, so you'll be familiar with ogmore-by-sea, probably even swam there. well recently there is no swimming allowed because fo the shit levels. anecdotal proof? checkmate!" I don't know where you got Pengam from. My profile says I live in Gilfach. But that's where I live now, not where I come from. I've never been to Ogmore-by-sea. I don't doubt your assertion that things have got worse there. But you are now the second person I've spoken to that has first hand experience of an area. Up to now all of the people I've had discussions with that thought things were getting worse have been relying on media reports. | |||
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"ok, it appears that you come from pengam, so you'll be familiar with ogmore-by-sea, probably even swam there. well recently there is no swimming allowed because fo the shit levels. anecdotal proof? checkmate! I don't know where you got Pengam from. My profile says I live in Gilfach. But that's where I live now, not where I come from. I've never been to Ogmore-by-sea. I don't doubt your assertion that things have got worse there. But you are now the second person I've spoken to that has first hand experience of an area. Up to now all of the people I've had discussions with that thought things were getting worse have been relying on media reports." out of curiosity, which gilfach you in then but? you don't have to answer that by the way. back to the topic .... yeah it's pretty grim on the coast where it's more noticable .... the concerning thing is, that the pollution feeding onto the beaches is often from outflows much further up the rivers that flow to the sea .... that's less noticable because they're not bathing spots generally 
it seems they lifted the swimming ban now but but then most people in the area aren't rushing to go back in the water now | |||
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"out of curiosity, which gilfach you in then but? you don't have to answer that by the way." There's only one Gilfach, and it's between Bargoed and Pengam, so you were close. But no cigar. | |||
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"out of curiosity, which gilfach you in then but? you don't have to answer that by the way. There's only one Gilfach, and it's between Bargoed and Pengam, so you were close. But no cigar." 10 minutes slow walk down gwerthnor then butty lol i knows it.
what beaches do you go to from there then? | |||
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"out of curiosity, which gilfach you in then but? you don't have to answer that by the way. There's only one Gilfach, and it's between Bargoed and Pengam, so you were close. But no cigar." "10 minutes slow walk down gwerthnor then butty lol i knows it. what beaches do you go to from there then?" It's usually Kenfig or Monknash, unless I'm visiting friends up in Blackpool. But we're derailing the thread. | |||
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"out of curiosity, which gilfach you in then but? you don't have to answer that by the way. There's only one Gilfach, and it's between Bargoed and Pengam, so you were close. But no cigar. 10 minutes slow walk down gwerthnor then butty lol i knows it. what beaches do you go to from there then? It's usually Kenfig or Monknash, unless I'm visiting friends up in Blackpool. But we're derailing the thread." 40 incidents of sewage dumping totalling 396 hours for river kynffig last year ending up on the beach. yes, lets get back on topic .... i'm glad the tory party has finally gone | |||
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