Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Politics |
| Jump to newest |  |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him!" Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man." He completely and utterly fucked the county by giving the GENERAL FKN PUBLIC the opportunity to fk themselves by voting on a subject that they knew fk all about ffs And then shited himself like the gutless pig head fker that he is… | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man." I’m proud of you standing by your man* though! *pig head fker | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. He completely and utterly fucked the county by giving the GENERAL FKN PUBLIC the opportunity to fk themselves by voting on a subject that they knew fk all about ffs And then shited himself like the gutless pig head fker that he is… " This is going to be the reoccurring point by many. The outcome was disappointing, but that says more about the public than the referendum being offered. If it had gone the other way, Cameron would have removed the constant arguing and splits within the tory party over the EU. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. He completely and utterly fucked the county by giving the GENERAL FKN PUBLIC the opportunity to fk themselves by voting on a subject that they knew fk all about ffs And then shited himself like the gutless pig head fker that he is… " I mean i hate brexit , but youve just said he was a bad PM for giving the general public a vote in a democracy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. I’m proud of you standing by your man* though! *pig head fker" Michael Ashcroft is your man then  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man." Put his dick in a pig and crushed ordinary people with austerity, initiated the Brexit clusterfuck, then fucked off. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Performed well with Trevor Phillips this morning. Intelligent comments on Rafah, Ukraine and on sticking with Rishi's plan, giving the maximum time for voters to see it is working. The next election does not need to happen this year, Rishi can go as late as 28/01/25. It'd be good to see him back, rather than gimmick-happy Starmer, accepting right wing Tory MPs into the socialist fold. Can you imagine Rishi or Boris welcoming Jeremy Corbyn to the Tory benches - that's how absurd a gimmick it was. Just had a read of Starmer's illegal immigration plan. Made me laugh - everything, literally everything, has been tried before and failed! It'll just be overseen by a hideously expensive quango. No deterrent effect at all. Of course Starmer is desperate for an election. The longer Rishi delays, the more people will see his plan bear fruit. Fruit that Starmer will whip away from us in taxation for his daft quangos and give-aways for the ill-deserving. " 
"what about Starmer" classic.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man." Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. He completely and utterly fucked the county by giving the GENERAL FKN PUBLIC the opportunity to fk themselves by voting on a subject that they knew fk all about ffs And then shited himself like the gutless pig head fker that he is… This is going to be the reoccurring point by many. The outcome was disappointing, but that says more about the public than the referendum being offered. If it had gone the other way, Cameron would have removed the constant arguing and splits within the tory party over the EU." Nope. He was very strongly advised to agree to the Referendum on EU membership to be a two part process. Step 1 In or Out. Step 2 agree on preferred future relationship to inform negotiations. We know what happened. Cameron was so arrogant he did not believe or accept that Remain would lose. Then ran away. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever." I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though." Read my next post | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post" I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight 
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?"That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it. One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO "you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say? Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
"He made a decision to benefit the Conservative party, not to benefit the country. That's the important point. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
"I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership. "You will not be surprised I'm going to disagree with you. You are looking at this from an outcome favour you have rather than the problem on the table at the time. The British public according to the majority on here were and are not qualified to make the right choiceQ! The view you are presenting is simply the view of if we do not get the answer we want, we have a back up and that wasn't on the table because it was remain or leave. You have not presented anything to support your view / rant of Cameron as a leader so far. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership.
You will not be surprised I'm going to disagree with you.
You are looking at this from an outcome favour you have rather than the problem on the table at the time.
The British public according to the majority on here were and are not qualified to make the right choiceQ! The view you are presenting is simply the view of if we do not get the answer we want, we have a back up and that wasn't on the table because it was remain or leave.
You have not presented anything to support your view / rant of Cameron as a leader so far.
""the problem on the table at the time" was that the Tories were losing voters to UKIP. Cameron put party first and promised a referendum. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership.
You will not be surprised I'm going to disagree with you.
You are looking at this from an outcome favour you have rather than the problem on the table at the time.
The British public according to the majority on here were and are not qualified to make the right choiceQ! The view you are presenting is simply the view of if we do not get the answer we want, we have a back up and that wasn't on the table because it was remain or leave.
You have not presented anything to support your view / rant of Cameron as a leader so far.
"the problem on the table at the time" was that the Tories were losing voters to UKIP.
Cameron put party first and promised a referendum."I agree to a point, however the EU divisions being cultivated was not a tory only problem. The nation was being bombarded with information and misinformation before the referendum was on the table, and a decision of preservation or not was needed. We have the same bile being trotted out by anyone with a view, one way or the other, albeit without the same consequences post 2016, but still hot air. This all irrelevant to the OP, Cameron would be a strong and talented tory leader whilst in opposition, he has the strongest of track records and a wealth of experience. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
""the problem on the table at the time" was that the Tories were losing voters to UKIP. Cameron put party first and promised a referendum." Would you have preferred it if Cameron had supported Remain, and let UKIP win the next election? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership.
You will not be surprised I'm going to disagree with you.
You are looking at this from an outcome favour you have rather than the problem on the table at the time.
The British public according to the majority on here were and are not qualified to make the right choiceQ! The view you are presenting is simply the view of if we do not get the answer we want, we have a back up and that wasn't on the table because it was remain or leave.
You have not presented anything to support your view / rant of Cameron as a leader so far.
"the problem on the table at the time" was that the Tories were losing voters to UKIP.
Cameron put party first and promised a referendum.
I agree to a point, however the EU divisions being cultivated was not a tory only problem.
The nation was being bombarded with information and misinformation before the referendum was on the table, and a decision of preservation or not was needed.
We have the same bile being trotted out by anyone with a view, one way or the other, albeit without the same consequences post 2016, but still hot air.
This all irrelevant to the OP, Cameron would be a strong and talented tory leader whilst in opposition, he has the strongest of track records and a wealth of experience. "Fair enough. In my opinion there's very little to choose from. I'd prefer him to some of their other options. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
""the problem on the table at the time" was that the Tories were losing voters to UKIP. Cameron put party first and promised a referendum. Would you have preferred it if Cameron had supported Remain, and let UKIP win the next election?" Cameron did support remain didn't he? Can't exactly remember. And UKIP wouldn't have won the election. They might have taken enough votes off the Tories so that they didn't win. Not sure what my personal preference has to do with anything, but seeing as you ask. No I would not have preferred UKIP to win any election. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership. ". David Cameron is a true man of the people. Talented, realistic and totally practical. He even bought his wife a ten year old Nissan Micra . A true believer in democracy who gave every single eligible voter in the UK a vote on whether we should leave or remain in the EU. The issue was discussed so much prior to the referendum day that everyone knew exactly what they were voting for . A true exercise in democracy and respecting every individual voter. Before voting I down at my kitchen table and assessed all the pros and cons . I am ashamed to say that my vote was nearly swayed by the merchants of doom and gloom. Luckily I decided the use guy instinct and instead backed a winner. The day of the result was one of the happiest days of my life . We should now have a similar referendum on immigration. Another exercise in democracy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership. . David Cameron is a true man of the people. Talented, realistic and totally practical. He even bought his wife a ten year old Nissan Micra .
A true believer in democracy who gave every single eligible voter in the UK a vote on whether we should leave or remain in the EU. The issue was discussed so much prior to the referendum day that everyone knew exactly what they were voting for .
A true exercise in democracy and respecting every individual voter.
Before voting I down at my kitchen table and assessed all the pros and cons .
I am ashamed to say that my vote was nearly swayed by the merchants of doom and gloom. Luckily I decided the use guy instinct and instead backed a winner.
The day of the result was one of the happiest days of my life .
We should now have a similar referendum on immigration. Another exercise in democracy "“Guy Instinct” | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"He’ll just pick up his ball and go home when he doesn't get his own way. Useless spineless weasel who only looks barely competent due to the utter inept rubbish that followed after him! Who do you feel were better PM's? Cameron achieved a lot and I do not not believe your description is anyway reflective of his tenure as PM, or of him as a man. Your opinion and you are entitled to it just as I am mine. He completely lacked backbone when things got tough and his arrogance enabled the environment and shitshow that followed. Had hoped he had fucked off forever. I thought it might be this one thing that triggered your post. I was hoping you had a more considered view of his leadership and the reason a referendum was offered. Not regurgitating the pig head nonsense is a bonus though. Read my next post I already have, politics is not a straight line, with guaranteed outcomes. You can make it that way in hindsight
Going back to my original question which you have not answered, what PM's have delivered above and beyond Cameron?
That would take a lot more thought and effort than I can be bothered with giving right now on a Fab forum. If that in some way makes my other points less agreeable to you the so be it.
One thing I will say is causation. If Cameron had agreed to a two stage referendum (as advised, very strongly) then Brexit would not have been such a shitshow AND it would have stopped the Tories being hijacked by the nutters that Cameron was supposedly trying to outmanoeuvre. His arrogance was larger than his intellect… IMHO
you keep saying arrogance, which is a personal opinion I would say?
Cut out the emotion, a decision was made, you did not like it, but a leader needs to make a decision.
I think Cameron was demonstrably arrogant. It was arrogance (and in that case supreme confidence in his own opinion) that saw him ignore advice on how the structure the referendum. It was his arrogance that saw him take a rather patronising approach with Brexit supporters that further alienated many and led to many just protest voting against the man/the establishment. I’m only talking about Brexit as the most high profile example. His arrogance was on display for all of his premiership. . David Cameron is a true man of the people. Talented, realistic and totally practical. He even bought his wife a ten year old Nissan Micra .
A true believer in democracy who gave every single eligible voter in the UK a vote on whether we should leave or remain in the EU. The issue was discussed so much prior to the referendum day that everyone knew exactly what they were voting for .
A true exercise in democracy and respecting every individual voter.
Before voting I down at my kitchen table and assessed all the pros and cons .
I am ashamed to say that my vote was nearly swayed by the merchants of doom and gloom. Luckily I decided the use guy instinct and instead backed a winner.
The day of the result was one of the happiest days of my life .
We should now have a similar referendum on immigration. Another exercise in democracy "If you don't already write for Private Eye. They should sign you up. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
""the problem on the table at the time" was that the Tories were losing voters to UKIP. Cameron put party first and promised a referendum." "Would you have preferred it if Cameron had supported Remain, and let UKIP win the next election?" "Cameron did support remain didn't he? Can't exactly remember. And UKIP wouldn't have won the election. They might have taken enough votes off the Tories so that they didn't win. Not sure what my personal preference has to do with anything, but seeing as you ask. No I would not have preferred UKIP to win any election." Are you sure that UKIP wouldn't have won an election? There was a lot of Brexit sentiment around, and UKIP were clearly on the rise. They went from 3.5% of the vote in 2010 to 13% in 2015. If Cameron hadn't promised a referendum, they would have done much better. And it's not just the Tories that would have suffered losses. Labours "red wall" seats showed us that people felt so strongly about it that they were prepared to ditch the party they had supported for decades and vote for the hated opposition, just to get a referendum. I'm convinced that if Cameron hadn't promised a referendum before the 2015 election, it would have ended in a hung parliament, with the Tories uniting with UKIP to form a government. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
""the problem on the table at the time" was that the Tories were losing voters to UKIP. Cameron put party first and promised a referendum. Would you have preferred it if Cameron had supported Remain, and let UKIP win the next election? Cameron did support remain didn't he? Can't exactly remember. And UKIP wouldn't have won the election. They might have taken enough votes off the Tories so that they didn't win. Not sure what my personal preference has to do with anything, but seeing as you ask. No I would not have preferred UKIP to win any election. Are you sure that UKIP wouldn't have won an election? There was a lot of Brexit sentiment around, and UKIP were clearly on the rise. They went from 3.5% of the vote in 2010 to 13% in 2015. If Cameron hadn't promised a referendum, they would have done much better. And it's not just the Tories that would have suffered losses. Labours "red wall" seats showed us that people felt so strongly about it that they were prepared to ditch the party they had supported for decades and vote for the hated opposition, just to get a referendum. I'm convinced that if Cameron hadn't promised a referendum before the 2015 election, it would have ended in a hung parliament, with the Tories uniting with UKIP to form a government. " Maybe, who knows, doesn't sound much different to the current situation. Still, he was putting party first. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Put his dick in a pig and crushed ordinary people with austerity, initiated the Brexit clusterfuck, then fucked off." Following a change of government the Chief Sec to the Teasury, at the time the Labour MP Liam Byrne, leaves a note to their successor outlining the state of the public purse. His simply stated “There is no money”. That was true as Brown had sold our gold reserves at a knock-down price, spent like a d*unken sailor even when all the warning signs of the financial crisis were there and de-regulated the banking sector to allow them to loan money they didn’t have to Gov’t and had to spend billions prevwnting their collapse. So given the nation was effectively bankrupt the only choice you have is to get your spending under control, or how, would you sugest, you continue to spend money you don’t have, especially when borrowing isn’t an option and you can’t tax your way to growth? Austerity? It barely touched the sides of how far it should have gone - Cameron was a piss poor PM for not re-structuring where he should have done and left gaping holes (that much we can agree on) but he did nothign to re-structure the NHS, or local authority spending, or any one of a number of things that he could have got after. Brexit, again we can agree that it was badly implemented and that project fear was a failure. A Cameron failure insofar as it was a great idea and brilliant opportunity wasted and he walked away rathjer than finish what he started. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Put his dick in a pig and crushed ordinary people with austerity, initiated the Brexit clusterfuck, then fucked off. Following a change of government the Chief Sec to the Teasury, at the time the Labour MP Liam Byrne, leaves a note to their successor outlining the state of the public purse. His simply stated “There is no money”. That was true as Brown had sold our gold reserves at a knock-down price, spent like a d*unken sailor even when all the warning signs of the financial crisis were there and de-regulated the banking sector to allow them to loan money they didn’t have to Gov’t and had to spend billions prevwnting their collapse. " 'what about Labour' lol. Classic. " So given the nation was effectively bankrupt the only choice you have is to get your spending under control, or how, would you sugest, you continue to spend money you don’t have, especially when borrowing isn’t an option and you can’t tax your way to growth? " Step 1. Keep tax avoidance loopholes open for the ultra wealthy. Step 2. Spunk billions on renewing trident. Step 3. Crush the most vulnerable in society with austerity. " Austerity? It barely touched the sides of how far it should have gone " Yes, maybe we could have sold licences to hunt the poor, the disabled, those struggling at the bottom of society? " - Cameron was a piss poor PM for not re-structuring where he should have done and left gaping holes (that much we can agree on) but he did nothign to re-structure the NHS, or local authority spending, or any one of a number of things that he could have got after. Brexit, again we can agree that it was badly implemented and that project fear was a failure. A Cameron failure insofar as it was a great idea and brilliant opportunity wasted and he walked away rathjer than finish what he started. " The least shit version of Brexit, would still be a huge steaming pile of unpolishable shit. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Put his dick in a pig and crushed ordinary people with austerity, initiated the Brexit clusterfuck, then fucked off. Following a change of government the Chief Sec to the Teasury, at the time the Labour MP Liam Byrne, leaves a note to their successor outlining the state of the public purse. His simply stated “There is no money”. That was true as Brown had sold our gold reserves at a knock-down price, spent like a d*unken sailor even when all the warning signs of the financial crisis were there and de-regulated the banking sector to allow them to loan money they didn’t have to Gov’t and had to spend billions prevwnting their collapse. So given the nation was effectively bankrupt the only choice you have is to get your spending under control, or how, would you sugest, you continue to spend money you don’t have, especially when borrowing isn’t an option and you can’t tax your way to growth? Austerity? It barely touched the sides of how far it should have gone - Cameron was a piss poor PM for not re-structuring where he should have done and left gaping holes (that much we can agree on) but he did nothign to re-structure the NHS, or local authority spending, or any one of a number of things that he could have got after. Brexit, again we can agree that it was badly implemented and that project fear was a failure. A Cameron failure insofar as it was a great idea and brilliant opportunity wasted and he walked away rathjer than finish what he started. " Cameron at least gave the nation a referendum - a democratic decision by the nation. No doubt he thought he'd win, and the remain vote would finally silence his Tory Euro-sceptics. To that extent, he screwed-up. As for the result itself, I don't buy that voters were duped or thick or however they are labelled. The debate took place over months (arguably years). Both sides had the opportunity to make their case. Brexit won the day and voters had their say  Why all the bitterness? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So. We're still out on whether Cameron is the man for the job, then? (TIC) "IMO he isn’t. He had his chance. The Tories need something new. For the party it would be good to lose the GE. They need a rethink and time to regroup. Rediscover what their core values are and find a new leader with little baggage. IMO of course | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So. We're still out on whether Cameron is the man for the job, then? (TIC)
IMO he isn’t. He had his chance. The Tories need something new. For the party it would be good to lose the GE. They need a rethink and time to regroup. Rediscover what their core values are and find a new leader with little baggage. IMO of course "Why is he the wrong person for the job? We are talking about post GE here I assume as nobody in the right mind would pick up the role before then. He has experience and will have time to rebuild the party, however much you do not like him for the referendum, he has a political mind and influence far above others in the tory party today. I would suggest his role would be to find the next Leader, and provide a strategic framework of recovery. As the opposition leader he would be an excellent adversary at the despatch box. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So. We're still out on whether Cameron is the man for the job, then? (TIC)
IMO he isn’t. He had his chance. The Tories need something new. For the party it would be good to lose the GE. They need a rethink and time to regroup. Rediscover what their core values are and find a new leader with little baggage. IMO of course
Why is he the wrong person for the job? We are talking about post GE here I assume as nobody in the right mind would pick up the role before then.
He has experience and will have time to rebuild the party, however much you do not like him for the referendum, he has a political mind and influence far above others in the tory party today. I would suggest his role would be to find the next Leader, and provide a strategic framework of recovery. As the opposition leader he would be an excellent adversary at the despatch box.
"I’ve already said that the referendum is only one example. Like most things in life, I believe it is better to move forward while learning from the past. You should not go backwards. There was a reason things failed before so never go back. Cameron had his chance. Came up short. His actions paved the way for and enabled May-Johnson-Truss so he is complicit in their debacle too. Time for new blood IMO. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So. We're still out on whether Cameron is the man for the job, then? (TIC)
IMO he isn’t. He had his chance. The Tories need something new. For the party it would be good to lose the GE. They need a rethink and time to regroup. Rediscover what their core values are and find a new leader with little baggage. IMO of course
Why is he the wrong person for the job? We are talking about post GE here I assume as nobody in the right mind would pick up the role before then.
He has experience and will have time to rebuild the party, however much you do not like him for the referendum, he has a political mind and influence far above others in the tory party today. I would suggest his role would be to find the next Leader, and provide a strategic framework of recovery. As the opposition leader he would be an excellent adversary at the despatch box.
I’ve already said that the referendum is only one example. Like most things in life, I believe it is better to move forward while learning from the past. You should not go backwards. There was a reason things failed before so never go back. Cameron had his chance. Came up short. His actions paved the way for and enabled May-Johnson-Truss so he is complicit in their debacle too. Time for new blood IMO."You did say it was only one example, and only provided the one example. Not going backwards, what does that mean? If we lived our lives like this, we would be retired at 30! This a very strange argument to explain why someone would not be a good opposition leader, in fact I would say it isn't an argument at all. Finally you say he paved the way for Johnson and Truss? Johnson paved his own way in the tory party, he made up his own rules and played it how he wanted it, such is politics there is always someone in the wings waiting their turn. The view you have of you own political leanings are centre, would you still say you're are centre? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"So. We're still out on whether Cameron is the man for the job, then? (TIC)
IMO he isn’t. He had his chance. The Tories need something new. For the party it would be good to lose the GE. They need a rethink and time to regroup. Rediscover what their core values are and find a new leader with little baggage. IMO of course
Why is he the wrong person for the job? We are talking about post GE here I assume as nobody in the right mind would pick up the role before then.
He has experience and will have time to rebuild the party, however much you do not like him for the referendum, he has a political mind and influence far above others in the tory party today. I would suggest his role would be to find the next Leader, and provide a strategic framework of recovery. As the opposition leader he would be an excellent adversary at the despatch box.
I’ve already said that the referendum is only one example. Like most things in life, I believe it is better to move forward while learning from the past. You should not go backwards. There was a reason things failed before so never go back. Cameron had his chance. Came up short. His actions paved the way for and enabled May-Johnson-Truss so he is complicit in their debacle too. Time for new blood IMO.
You did say it was only one example, and only provided the one example.
Not going backwards, what does that mean? If we lived our lives like this, we would be retired at 30! This a very strange argument to explain why someone would not be a good opposition leader, in fact I would say it isn't an argument at all.
Finally you say he paved the way for Johnson and Truss? Johnson paved his own way in the tory party, he made up his own rules and played it how he wanted it, such is politics there is always someone in the wings waiting their turn.
The view you have of you own political leanings are centre, would you still say you're are centre?"Yes I view myself as a centrist but without doubt I dance around “the line” depending on the topic/policy and how that impacts me or my social conscience (which will normally lose out to my own priorities generally). Cameron paved the way for those who followed because his actions emboldened rather than kneecapped the more extreme elements forcing the Conservatives to become something else. I really do not have the inclination to reel out more examples of Cameron’s shortcomings. But I do not like him and I have expressed why. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
