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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" you will be ok if you have savings or property if you have neither of those it will be same shit different boss so for a large chunk of the population it dont matter what they do | |||
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"Free creme eggs for all?" I'm voting for someone else if they promise that. I want a Greggs sausage roll. | |||
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"Say there's no money left " Not only the first thing but possibly the most repeated thing | |||
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"Drop the soundbites on us daily: It is going to be a long road to recovery We need to right the wrongs of the past 14 years Successive Tory governments has left us in a near impossible position We need to complete a full and frank audit Unfortunately the tories have not left me with the option to….. fill in the blanks Year 5: The road to recovery has just begun, another 5 years and we will be there It has been a challenge and one we are rising to There was never any money We needed to be, borrow and steal to keep the NHS from collapse " ... It's the next Tory government fault .... It would have worked if hasn't been for those capitalist trade unionists... | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" Implement policies that benefit whomever contributed the most to their election campaign. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Implement policies that benefit whomever contributed the most to their election campaign. " Well yeah it's that how the wheel's turn? I'd like to think Labour have an actual plan in place if they do get in rather than winging it! | |||
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"I'd hope they'd start to enacy their manifesto promises. It's controversial I know. But here's hoping. " Nope, he’s rewinding already, especially climate change. | |||
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"I'd hope they'd start to enacy their manifesto promises. It's controversial I know. But here's hoping. Nope, he’s rewinding already, especially climate change. " what's this about ? | |||
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"I'd hope they'd start to enacy their manifesto promises. It's controversial I know. But here's hoping. Nope, he’s rewinding already, especially climate change. what's this about ?" “Labour has scaled back plans to borrow £28bn a year to invest in green jobs and industry as the party’s leadership looks to review its spending in an attempt to prove its fiscal credibility. The shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, delayed plans for a green prosperity fund to start in the first year of a Labour government, saying it would “ramp up” by the middle of a first parliament.” Have to wait for the “ramp up” | |||
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"I'd hope they'd start to enacy their manifesto promises. It's controversial I know. But here's hoping. Nope, he’s rewinding already, especially climate change. what's this about ? “Labour has scaled back plans to borrow £28bn a year to invest in green jobs and industry as the party’s leadership looks to review its spending in an attempt to prove its fiscal credibility. The shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, delayed plans for a green prosperity fund to start in the first year of a Labour government, saying it would “ramp up” by the middle of a first parliament.” Have to wait for the “ramp up” " Also said he would crack on with licenses to drill for oil and gas in the north sea. Presumably the fossil fuels industry thinks there's a chance that Labour will be elected, so have started donating to ensure a potential new government continues to prioritise their profits. | |||
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"I'd hope they'd start to enacy their manifesto promises. It's controversial I know. But here's hoping. Nope, he’s rewinding already, especially climate change. what's this about ? “Labour has scaled back plans to borrow £28bn a year to invest in green jobs and industry as the party’s leadership looks to review its spending in an attempt to prove its fiscal credibility. The shadow chancellor, Rachel Reeves, delayed plans for a green prosperity fund to start in the first year of a Labour government, saying it would “ramp up” by the middle of a first parliament.” Have to wait for the “ramp up” " ahhh. Last year's news. I put this more down to "when the facts change". Interest rates increased. Borrowing becomes more expensive. | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far." when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? " University fees. | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? " He also made a commitment to nationalise utilities. | |||
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" I put this more down to "when the facts change". Interest rates increased. Borrowing becomes more expensive. " £28bn @4%~£ 1.12bn annual interest, equivalent to £41 per household per annum. 79p a week interest per household for climate change. In the face of 76% likely to vote in support of the UK's net zero target | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? University fees." ah fair. I had forgotten that one. | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? He also made a commitment to nationalise utilities." Centre for policy studies estimates the costs of renationalsiations as: over £55.4bn for energy, £86.25bn for the water sector, £4.5bn for Royal Mail, and £30bn for PFI nationalisation £176bn. Good luck with that. | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? University fees.ah fair. I had forgotten that one. " £20bn a year, and writing off £206bn in current loans No surprise he backed down on that one. | |||
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"There isn’t really a great deal they can do on day one… they would really have to have some sort of emergency budget spending wise I assume they would reverse certain policies.. so the Rwanda deportation program would go…" “The Times reports that shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper and shadow immigration minister Stephen Kinnock have been speaking to asylum experts, former home secretary Lord David Blunkett and other European countries to draw up an alternative proposal to tackle small boats crossings in the Channel. The plan would see migrants having asylum claims processed overseas, with successful applicants allowed to come to the UK.” | |||
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"There isn’t really a great deal they can do on day one… they would really have to have some sort of emergency budget spending wise I assume they would reverse certain policies.. so the Rwanda deportation program would go… “The Times reports that shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper and shadow immigration minister Stephen Kinnock have been speaking to asylum experts, former home secretary Lord David Blunkett and other European countries to draw up an alternative proposal to tackle small boats crossings in the Channel. The plan would see migrants having asylum claims processed overseas, with successful applicants allowed to come to the UK.” " so different to Rwanda  and avoiding the unlawful bit | |||
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"There isn’t really a great deal they can do on day one… they would really have to have some sort of emergency budget spending wise I assume they would reverse certain policies.. so the Rwanda deportation program would go… “The Times reports that shadow home secretary Yvette Cooper and shadow immigration minister Stephen Kinnock have been speaking to asylum experts, former home secretary Lord David Blunkett and other European countries to draw up an alternative proposal to tackle small boats crossings in the Channel. The plan would see migrants having asylum claims processed overseas, with successful applicants allowed to come to the UK.” " I wonder if any of these plans come with limits on annual numbers and making it criminal for people who show up on boats in spite of having legal way to apply. If not, the situation will only get worse? | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? " I think I won't be allowed to share that link. But search for the article titled "All of Keir Starmer’s u-turns and abandoned policy pledges, from child benefits to private schools" on bigissue website. It's a pretty damning list. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" Give them self a pay rise. | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? I think I won't be allowed to share that link. But search for the article titled "All of Keir Starmer’s u-turns and abandoned policy pledges, from child benefits to private schools" on bigissue website. It's a pretty damning list."
I'm not here to defend starmer. But some of those look like a bit of a technicality (if you remove tax breaks from public schools what else is left via charitable status?) And I don't follow how the oil drilling one is a u turn.
The others look cosy driven. Given the last few years I'd be amazed if policies haven't withstood the twat of time. I'd grant the same benefit of doubt to looking at how well Tories have delivered their manifesto.
For me (and this is my take I accept) flipflopping happens quickly, and u turns are more points of principles. Rather than redirections. The closest one I see here is the upper rate of tax. That for me is a U. | |||
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"... the twat of time ..." I like that. I'm going to use it in future. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" Shout down and laugh at the losers from the other side of the bench.  | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" quadruple the national dept by giving "500 million to 10 african countries each year... and start up hundreds of quangos so ex labour councillors can get a lot of committees going to sponge tens of thousands of pounds into their back pockets like the last time when the 2 muppets (blair and brown) were pm's  | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? quadruple the national dept by giving "500 million to 10 african countries each year... and start up hundreds of quangos so ex labour councillors can get a lot of committees going to sponge tens of thousands of pounds into their back pockets like the last time when the 2 muppets (blair and brown) were pm's "lol - why would you come out with this when EVERYONE knows that the Blair/Brown years were the most successful and wealth generating years that this country has experienced in recent decades? | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? quadruple the national dept by giving "500 million to 10 african countries each year... and start up hundreds of quangos so ex labour councillors can get a lot of committees going to sponge tens of thousands of pounds into their back pockets like the last time when the 2 muppets (blair and brown) were pm's "I don't know if this is on jest or not. Either way, there are people this detached from reality. I suspect there are enough to give us five more years of brutal Tory rule. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? quadruple the national dept by giving "500 million to 10 african countries each year... and start up hundreds of quangos so ex labour councillors can get a lot of committees going to sponge tens of thousands of pounds into their back pockets like the last time when the 2 muppets (blair and brown) were pm's
lol - why would you come out with this when EVERYONE knows that the Blair/Brown years were the most successful and wealth generating years that this country has experienced in recent decades?"I assume you are ignoring the fact that they were responsible for spending hundreds of billions of pounds bailing out the banks when they failed on their watch in 2008 and launching a hugely costly war in Iraq by dismissing over a million people on the largest single political demonstration we have ever seen as a “minority view” in 2003? I am not defending the tories at all but let’s make sure we remember what actually happened during their time. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? quadruple the national dept by giving "500 million to 10 african countries each year... and start up hundreds of quangos so ex labour councillors can get a lot of committees going to sponge tens of thousands of pounds into their back pockets like the last time when the 2 muppets (blair and brown) were pm's
lol - why would you come out with this when EVERYONE knows that the Blair/Brown years were the most successful and wealth generating years that this country has experienced in recent decades?
I assume you are ignoring the fact that they were responsible for spending hundreds of billions of pounds bailing out the banks when they failed on their watch in 2008 and launching a hugely costly war in Iraq by dismissing over a million people on the largest single political demonstration we have ever seen as a “minority view” in 2003?
I am not defending the tories at all but let’s make sure we remember what actually happened during their time."Agreed on Iraq but let’s also be 100% clear on the financial crisis and the root causes, ie deregulation of the banking sector championed and initially pushed through by right wing libertarian govts led by Reagan and Thatcher, Bush and Major. Imagine the outcry if Blair’s govt had tried to overturn this, and the finance sector were not exactly being honest about securitisation. The bailout was necessary to avoid financial armageddon! | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be." This is the craziest post I have ever read in these forums  | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be." Yes I particularly admired Blair’s work in the Middle East. All completely under the radar and hardly anyone noticed what was happening, even in Iraq! I’m sure everyone remembers the Blair years so fondly. The UK hardly changed at all, aside from everyone came out of it with a Porsche on the drive and a holiday home in France. And then the ungrateful electorate kicked the charming Brown out after all he did for the nation’s finances. They’re just such bigoted people. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Implement policies that benefit whomever contributed the most to their election campaign. " The Unions will be happy. | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? " Khan's ULEZ in London . | |||
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"Unfortunately every so called excuse is a definite due to the piss poor tory government's which have left us in our present state. I cannot think if anything worthwhile they have legislated for" I spent some time googling but couldn't find anything. They must have achieved something positive over the past 13 years! | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? Khan's ULEZ in London ." It’s not Khan policy…. It’s a policy the then minister for transport, grant shapps, demanded as part of the bailout given to TfL…. | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares." Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ? | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ?" how | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ?how " Could it have anything thing to do with the government subsidising Scotland and Wales? Billions I say…. Pish you say | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ?" England's largesse perhaps? | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ? England's largesse perhaps?" Id say yous are being shafted by goverment that could easily subsidise all of them things but just dont want too | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ?how Could it have anything thing to do with the government subsidising Scotland and Wales? Billions I say…. Pish you say "Do they ? | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ? England's largesse perhaps? Id say yous are being shafted by goverment that could easily subsidise all of them things but just dont want too " What, you believe in the SNP money tree? Everything free for everybody? | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ? England's largesse perhaps? Id say yous are being shafted by goverment that could easily subsidise all of them things but just dont want too What, you believe in the SNP money tree? Everything free for everybody?" Id call it good money management and spending where its needed | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ?how Could it have anything thing to do with the government subsidising Scotland and Wales? Billions I say…. Pish you say
Do they ?"Billions a year, and I think we should stop propping up your largish, corrupt and underperforming council. | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ?how Could it have anything thing to do with the government subsidising Scotland and Wales? Billions I say…. Pish you say
Do they ?
Billions a year, and I think we should stop propping up your largish, corrupt and underperforming council.
"Cheers for the donation lol | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be." Crackers. Can you imagine the absolute carnival of shite we’d be living in if we’d allowed Johnson & Truss to ‘quietly get on with governing’ us?? | |||
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"Even if you ask anyone this question the day before election, I don't think anyone can answer. SKS has taken the idea of "wise men change their mind" a bit too far.when people says he flipflops the green pledge is the only one that comes to mind for me. What others have there been ? Khan's ULEZ in London . It’s not Khan policy…. It’s a policy the then minister for transport, grant shapps, demanded as part of the bailout given to TfL…." It’s reeeeally weird how the people who hate on Khan over ULEZ can be repeatedly told the above, verifiable, fact but it just doesn’t sink in… There must be a common denominator between these people I just can’t for the life of me think what that may be | |||
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"They will reinstate the 2030 zero emission policy for new vehicles. (Deferred to 2035 by Sunak) " I hope not. This has caused a lot of uncertainty within the sector | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ? England's largesse perhaps? Id say yous are being shafted by goverment that could easily subsidise all of them things but just dont want too What, you believe in the SNP money tree? Everything free for everybody? Id call it good money management and spending where its needed ""Good money management?" The SNP? Fair play you have a sense of humour!  | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be. Crackers. Can you imagine the absolute carnival of shite we’d be living in if we’d allowed Johnson & Truss to ‘quietly get on with governing’ us??" That's what Starmer is talking about, just not having people having to think about whatever great wheeze they have come up with his week that is to paper over the cracks of last week crisis. Just getting on with making the country work again without wasting time on nonsense like Bridges to Northern Ireland and the like. If you don't know what labour's vision and policy agenda is you either haven't been paying attention or been bothered to Google them as Starmer set out his 5 key missions this year. Writing down you don't know what they stand for is like being a bin man and posting about the terrible state of the refuse collection. If this idea that Labour haven't set out any plans is from the media you read then ask yourself why. If you want to debate if his ideas are any good that is fine. Saying he doesn't have details plans is disingenuous as it was only this week Sunak allowed the Labour Party to have a look at the books so they can make detailed plans based on the state of the government finances. Otherwise he could say we will spend 5 billion on this new thing and not have any idea if there is 5 billion there for it. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be. Crackers. Can you imagine the absolute carnival of shite we’d be living in if we’d allowed Johnson & Truss to ‘quietly get on with governing’ us?? That's what Starmer is talking about, just not having people having to think about whatever great wheeze they have come up with his week that is to paper over the cracks of last week crisis. Just getting on with making the country work again without wasting time on nonsense like Bridges to Northern Ireland and the like. If you don't know what labour's vision and policy agenda is you either haven't been paying attention or been bothered to Google them as Starmer set out his 5 key missions this year. Writing down you don't know what they stand for is like being a bin man and posting about the terrible state of the refuse collection. If this idea that Labour haven't set out any plans is from the media you read then ask yourself why. If you want to debate if his ideas are any good that is fine. Saying he doesn't have details plans is disingenuous as it was only this week Sunak allowed the Labour Party to have a look at the books so they can make detailed plans based on the state of the government finances. Otherwise he could say we will spend 5 billion on this new thing and not have any idea if there is 5 billion there for it. " but is starmer gona stick to those five things, after all he dumped everything he ssid to win the leadership, anyway he will only do watever his owners let him do | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election " Why? | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" Thank all those who voted for them would be a good start, then build on it. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Thank all those who voted for them would be a good start, then build on it." Something like this? Ladies and gentlemen, members of the Labour Party, and fellow citizens, Today, we stand before you with a sense of responsibility, humility, and determination. The last 14 years under the Tory government have been marked by challenges, missed opportunities, and a growing divide in our society. We accept the mandate bestowed upon us with a commitment to address the issues that have been neglected for far too long. The Tory government has left our public services strained, our NHS struggling, and our education system in need of urgent attention. While the economy may have seen some growth, it's essential to recognise that this growth hasn't been inclusive. Too many families have felt the pinch of austerity, and we are determined to build an economy that works for everyone, not just a privileged few. The Tory approach to social issues has left many feeling left behind, and we pledge to create policies that bridge the gaps and unite our communities. We believe in a fair and just society, where opportunities are not limited by background or circumstance. Our vision is one of compassion, unity, and progress. Together, we will strive to mend the social fabric torn by years of neglect. We extend an olive branch to all citizens, regardless of political affiliation, to join us in building a brighter future for the United Kingdom. Thank you for your trust and support. Together, we can bring about positive change for the benefit of all our citizens. Signed ChatGPT | |||
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"What a paradise it will be - rather like Scotland and Wales : No tuition fees, no prescription charges, no dentistry charges, free care for the elderly, free hospital parking, frozen council tax. We'll be paying 85% tax mind, but who cares. Maybe you should be asking who scotland and wales can subsidise all of them,yet tory or labour goverments in england cant ? England's largesse perhaps? Id say yous are being shafted by goverment that could easily subsidise all of them things but just dont want too What, you believe in the SNP money tree? Everything free for everybody? Id call it good money management and spending where its needed
"Good money management?" The SNP? Fair play you have a sense of humour! "Yip very good money management,we also get a sense of humuor free too | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why?" I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win " Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule." What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997." Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. " if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. " I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power." And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now " I agree with you up until here 100% " to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them!" I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars." You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? | |||
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"I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win" Interestingly, the BBC published a story today that says that Labour are unlikely to win outright. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67361138 | |||
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"I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Interestingly, the BBC published a story today that says that Labour are unlikely to win outright. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67361138" Well no party in there right is going to consider a coalition with the tories I am expecting a labour minority government working on a “memorandum of understanding” with the Lib Dem’s and the SNP….. | |||
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"I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Interestingly, the BBC published a story today that says that Labour are unlikely to win outright. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67361138" I was not at all convinced with the logic behind the new boundaries and how people voted back in 2019 that led to this conclusion. | |||
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"I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Interestingly, the BBC published a story today that says that Labour are unlikely to win outright. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67361138" I genuinely see Labour winning outright, quite handsomely. | |||
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"I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Interestingly, the BBC published a story today that says that Labour are unlikely to win outright. https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-67361138 Well no party in there right is going to consider a coalition with the tories I am expecting a labour minority government working on a “memorandum of understanding” with the Lib Dem’s and the SNP….." Do you sèe the snp doing this ? | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? " I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. " Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country? | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country?" If you can explain to me how this is related to the point I made, I'll answer it. On the surface it appears unrelated. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country? If you can explain to me how this is related to the point I made, I'll answer it. On the surface it appears unrelated. " Are you being serious? Did you write this? “ I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants’ If I need to spell this out to you I’m lost for words  | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country? If you can explain to me how this is related to the point I made, I'll answer it. On the surface it appears unrelated. Are you being serious? Did you write this? “ I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants’ If I need to spell this out to you I’m lost for words "You should know better | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. " The levels of immigration under this government are historically unprecedented. In practice that would not suggest that they are anti immigrant or xenophobic. Do you think that they are actually incompetent xenophobes? Or that they actually love immigrants but are trying to convince the public that they are anti immigrant and have just been found out? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country? If you can explain to me how this is related to the point I made, I'll answer it. On the surface it appears unrelated. Are you being serious? Did you write this? “ I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants’ If I need to spell this out to you I’m lost for words
You should know better "Pile on bingo!!!!!!!!!
Only kidding (and being hypocritical) | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. The levels of immigration under this government are historically unprecedented. In practice that would not suggest that they are anti immigrant or xenophobic. Do you think that they are actually incompetent xenophobes? Or that they actually love immigrants but are trying to convince the public that they are anti immigrant and have just been found out?" I think you are crediting them with having a plan or any idea. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country? If you can explain to me how this is related to the point I made, I'll answer it. On the surface it appears unrelated. Are you being serious? Did you write this? “ I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants’ If I need to spell this out to you I’m lost for words "Then you're lost for word. My point was clear. And my point had nothing to do with criminal behaviour, not even vaguely. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. The levels of immigration under this government are historically unprecedented. In practice that would not suggest that they are anti immigrant or xenophobic. " This is unrelated to my point. " Do you think that they are actually incompetent xenophobes? " Neither. Well, I think they are competent, and could be xenophobes or not. " Or that they actually love immigrants but are trying to convince the public that they are anti immigrant and have just been found out?" I think they have no opinion on immigrants by and large. They use immigration and immigrants as a tool for gaining popularity amongst an electorate that is fed anti immigrant rhetoric by the media, and they use it as a distraction tactic. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country? If you can explain to me how this is related to the point I made, I'll answer it. On the surface it appears unrelated. Are you being serious? Did you write this? “ I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants’ If I need to spell this out to you I’m lost for words
Then you're lost for word. My point was clear. And my point had nothing to do with criminal behaviour, not even vaguely. "I know I’m going to regret this….. Can you tell me what you meant, it is nowhere near clear | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. Is it xenophobic or anti criminal behaviour to want to stop illegal entry to the country? If you can explain to me how this is related to the point I made, I'll answer it. On the surface it appears unrelated. Are you being serious? Did you write this? “ I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants’ If I need to spell this out to you I’m lost for words
Then you're lost for word. My point was clear. And my point had nothing to do with criminal behaviour, not even vaguely.
I know I’m going to regret this…..
Can you tell me what you meant, it is nowhere near clear
"Lets recap. I was asked "You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out?" I replied: "I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants" What part is unclear? | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. The levels of immigration under this government are historically unprecedented. In practice that would not suggest that they are anti immigrant or xenophobic. This is unrelated to my point. Do you think that they are actually incompetent xenophobes? Neither. Well, I think they are competent, and could be xenophobes or not. Or that they actually love immigrants but are trying to convince the public that they are anti immigrant and have just been found out? I think they have no opinion on immigrants by and large. They use immigration and immigrants as a tool for gaining popularity amongst an electorate that is fed anti immigrant rhetoric by the media, and they use it as a distraction tactic. " A distraction from what though? Their immigration policy is a total disaster. They just look like impotent and incompetent clowns. It’s hard to see how they could be using a disastrous immigration policy that’s going to see them destroyed at the next election as some kind of distraction. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Implement policies that benefit whomever contributed the most to their election campaign. " If only British politics were thst simple. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? quadruple the national dept by giving "500 million to 10 african countries each year... and start up hundreds of quangos so ex labour councillors can get a lot of committees going to sponge tens of thousands of pounds into their back pockets like the last time when the 2 muppets (blair and brown) were pm's
lol - why would you come out with this when EVERYONE knows that the Blair/Brown years were the most successful and wealth generating years that this country has experienced in recent decades?"Untill Brown sold off all our gold at stupidly low price after he pre announced the sale and they crashed the Economy by playing fast and loose with regulation? Most of all the good stuff they did like rebuilding all the school was all done on the tick and we are still paying the ppi to this day.. And I won't even go into the war in Iraq... | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Implement policies that benefit whomever contributed the most to their election campaign. If only British politics were thst simple." It is that simple and that's why the system is not functioning in the interests of British people. | |||
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"I have just done some googling on this. It looks very very very likely that they will win the next general election Why? I have just looked. There is a website that calculates this based of facts and they have asked fifteen thousand people from all I’ve rather UK, it shows a 94% chance labour would win Fair enough. This always seems to get predicted, people start to hope for change, then we end up getting stuck with five more years of Tory rule. What “change” are you hoping for under Labour? It will just be more continuity Blairite globalism which is what we’ve had since 1997. Under current labour. I should imagine very little change to be honest. I don't have much faith in our current parliamentary system. But in general, there's often excitement in the build up to an election, polls show that th Tories are likely to be knocked off the perch. But then they get voted back in again. if have said that if we still had a Cameron (or maybe even May) Tory government. But I feel we have a special kind of government at the moment who are all about headlines and internal politics and not about meaning action. So I'd hope to see the focus shift to the big picture. And less emotional rhetoric when dealing with big issues. Im happy if we are discussing homeless/rough sleeping. I'm happy if we are discussing our immigration policy. I'm happy if we are discussing fairness in policing and use of various public orders. I'm less happy with minimising complexities with terms like lifestyle choice, policies that address a small percentage of asylum seekers, which in turn is a small percentage of immigration. And less happy when issues are raised reactively rather than proactively, so can spark rather than extinguish concerns. I think a Tory party can do thisb. Just not at the moment. And that, more so than policy differences, is why I feel we need a fresh start. The next labour government won't be (I hope) more of the same versus the last 5 years. Albeit may be more of the same of we look at the 30 years before that. I would expect some incremental improvements for sure. Less nepotism, less corruption, less culture wars nonsense, less demonising poor people, foreigners etc. But the current system where political parties and individual candidates are allowed to take large donations from corporations, rich individuals etc, shifts the priorities of the big parties. They need to keep the donors happy to keep the money coming in. This causes a shift in policies, regardless of which of the two big parties is in power. And of course donations from public sector trade unions which totally distort the priorities of the Labour Party as we shall soon see. Sure Labour are busy cosying up to big business right now I agree with you up until here 100% to try and convince us all that the economy is safe in their hands but when push comes to shove they will do what their trade union paymasters tell them to and we can expect even more public sector waste and higher taxes to pay for it. As for your obsession with foreigners, under the Tories more foreigners are coming into the country than ever before. Surely you should be voting for them! I am not obsessed with foreigners. You seem confused about this point all the time. The current government are continually pointing the finger, blaming foreigners, immigrants, rampiny up some hate and fear etc as a distraction tactic and to rile up their supporters. As you pointed out, they don't make any sensible policies, it's just rhetoric as part of their culture wars. You would prefer a government that speaks nicely about foreigners and keeps them all out? I would prefer a government that doesn't stoke xenophobia, takes responsibility for it's actions and decisions instead of blaming everything on immigrants. The levels of immigration under this government are historically unprecedented. In practice that would not suggest that they are anti immigrant or xenophobic. This is unrelated to my point. Do you think that they are actually incompetent xenophobes? Neither. Well, I think they are competent, and could be xenophobes or not. Or that they actually love immigrants but are trying to convince the public that they are anti immigrant and have just been found out? I think they have no opinion on immigrants by and large. They use immigration and immigrants as a tool for gaining popularity amongst an electorate that is fed anti immigrant rhetoric by the media, and they use it as a distraction tactic. A distraction from what though? " Take your pick from whichever sleaze or corruption from the last 13 years " Their immigration policy is a total disaster. They just look like impotent and incompetent clowns. It’s hard to see how they could be using a disastrous immigration policy that’s going to see them destroyed at the next election as some kind of distraction. " It's not to do with the policy, it's the anti-immigrant rhetoric. And the proof is in the pudding, people vote Tory relentlessly, regardless of how openly they don't give a shit about running the country. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be. Crackers. Can you imagine the absolute carnival of shite we’d be living in if we’d allowed Johnson & Truss to ‘quietly get on with governing’ us?? That's what Starmer is talking about, just not having people having to think about whatever great wheeze they have come up with his week that is to paper over the cracks of last week crisis. Just getting on with making the country work again without wasting time on nonsense like Bridges to Northern Ireland and the like. If you don't know what labour's vision and policy agenda is you either haven't been paying attention or been bothered to Google them as Starmer set out his 5 key missions this year. Writing down you don't know what they stand for is like being a bin man and posting about the terrible state of the refuse collection. If this idea that Labour haven't set out any plans is from the media you read then ask yourself why. If you want to debate if his ideas are any good that is fine. Saying he doesn't have details plans is disingenuous as it was only this week Sunak allowed the Labour Party to have a look at the books so they can make detailed plans based on the state of the government finances. Otherwise he could say we will spend 5 billion on this new thing and not have any idea if there is 5 billion there for it. but is starmer gona stick to those five things, after all he dumped everything he ssid to win the leadership, anyway he will only do watever his owners let him do" Probably I just went and read them. Most of them are pretty vague. Take for example "lower the price of Energy and investment in a green future" It's sounds like a firm pledge but in reality they could do there bare minimum and claim they full filled there pledge. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Implement policies that benefit whomever contributed the most to their election campaign. If only British politics were thst simple. It is that simple and that's why the system is not functioning in the interests of British people." Exactly no party either side of the isle ACTUALLY does it.. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be. Crackers. Can you imagine the absolute carnival of shite we’d be living in if we’d allowed Johnson & Truss to ‘quietly get on with governing’ us?? That's what Starmer is talking about, just not having people having to think about whatever great wheeze they have come up with his week that is to paper over the cracks of last week crisis. Just getting on with making the country work again without wasting time on nonsense like Bridges to Northern Ireland and the like. If you don't know what labour's vision and policy agenda is you either haven't been paying attention or been bothered to Google them as Starmer set out his 5 key missions this year. Writing down you don't know what they stand for is like being a bin man and posting about the terrible state of the refuse collection. If this idea that Labour haven't set out any plans is from the media you read then ask yourself why. If you want to debate if his ideas are any good that is fine. Saying he doesn't have details plans is disingenuous as it was only this week Sunak allowed the Labour Party to have a look at the books so they can make detailed plans based on the state of the government finances. Otherwise he could say we will spend 5 billion on this new thing and not have any idea if there is 5 billion there for it. but is starmer gona stick to those five things, after all he dumped everything he ssid to win the leadership, anyway he will only do watever his owners let him do Probably I just went and read them. Most of them are pretty vague. Take for example "lower the price of Energy and investment in a green future" It's sounds like a firm pledge but in reality they could do there bare minimum and claim they full filled there pledge." ‘They could do there (sic) bare minimum’?? Why are you speculating on something that is highly unlikely to ever be the case/happen? It really is only this incumbent shower of animal necrophiles and a large portion of their boomer supporters who couldn’t give a shit about the state of the planet. You shouldn’t assume everyone is as morally bereft as the Tories. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Turn down the volume in politics and let us all get on with our lives whilst they quietly get on with governing and making the country a fit place to live again. You know… like how it used to be. Crackers. Can you imagine the absolute carnival of shite we’d be living in if we’d allowed Johnson & Truss to ‘quietly get on with governing’ us?? That's what Starmer is talking about, just not having people having to think about whatever great wheeze they have come up with his week that is to paper over the cracks of last week crisis. Just getting on with making the country work again without wasting time on nonsense like Bridges to Northern Ireland and the like. If you don't know what labour's vision and policy agenda is you either haven't been paying attention or been bothered to Google them as Starmer set out his 5 key missions this year. Writing down you don't know what they stand for is like being a bin man and posting about the terrible state of the refuse collection. If this idea that Labour haven't set out any plans is from the media you read then ask yourself why. If you want to debate if his ideas are any good that is fine. Saying he doesn't have details plans is disingenuous as it was only this week Sunak allowed the Labour Party to have a look at the books so they can make detailed plans based on the state of the government finances. Otherwise he could say we will spend 5 billion on this new thing and not have any idea if there is 5 billion there for it. but is starmer gona stick to those five things, after all he dumped everything he ssid to win the leadership, anyway he will only do watever his owners let him do Probably I just went and read them. Most of them are pretty vague. Take for example "lower the price of Energy and investment in a green future" It's sounds like a firm pledge but in reality they could do there bare minimum and claim they full filled there pledge. ‘They could do there (sic) bare minimum’?? Why are you speculating on something that is highly unlikely to ever be the case/happen? It really is only this incumbent shower of animal necrophiles and a large portion of their boomer supporters who couldn’t give a shit about the state of the planet. You shouldn’t assume everyone is as morally bereft as the Tories. " Just aa well the Conservatives won the last three general elections . Thar is a true reflection on what people think. Issues such as climate change are being addressed by the government. To cost of taking action has to matched against the benefits | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion?" Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit | |||
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"Labour will basically run the country how they run it in places like Wales and London. So more looney green policies like 20mph roads, Low Traffic Neighbourhoods in unnecessary roads, higher taxes for everyone, higher crime, ULEZ schemes, antisemitic hostilities towards the Jewish people in the country and possibly try to take us back into the E.U through the back door. But whats more scary is the fact most of you will vote for this chaos they will bring to the country" The EU has a backdoor? | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit " Do you know what "woke" means? Assuming you do, why is it "bullshit" to be aware of social injustice, especially racism. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Do you know what "woke" means? Assuming you do, why is it "bullshit" to be aware of social injustice, especially racism. " I think the poster isn't referring to woke in your literal meaning, woke was ambushed by the progressives and morphed into many meanings, although it originates as you say. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Do you know what "woke" means? Assuming you do, why is it "bullshit" to be aware of social injustice, especially racism. I think the poster isn't referring to woke in your literal meaning, woke was ambushed by the progressives and morphed into many meanings, although it originates as you say. " Exactly this , thanks | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit " Can you explain further? | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further?" Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be a absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps??" Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly." Probably the kind you are going to try and catch him out on? | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly." You’re obviously a labour fan so what makes you think they’ll improve anything if they get into power ? | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Do you know what "woke" means? Assuming you do, why is it "bullshit" to be aware of social injustice, especially racism. " This will help you understand the use of the word woke, see the shifts, it really will help
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/43645-most-britons-now-know-what-woke | |||
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"Bankrupt the country, just like they always do" £878,000,000,000 national debt 2010 £2,591,000,000,000 in 2024, after austerity and being “fiscally responsible” | |||
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"Bankrupt the country, just like they always do £878,000,000,000 national debt 2010 £2,591,000,000,000 in 2024, after austerity and being “fiscally responsible” " And which part of that expenditure do you disapprove of? | |||
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"This will help you understand the use of the word woke, see the shifts, it really will help
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/43645-most-britons-now-know-what-woke"That last section is fascinating. It says that 47% of the people that considered themselves to be woke, also believed that wanting stronger action on climate change was a woke thing. That was from 2022, but it shows that the idea of 'woke' really isn't well understood, even by those that promote it as a good thing. | |||
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"This will help you understand the use of the word woke, see the shifts, it really will help
https://yougov.co.uk/politics/articles/43645-most-britons-now-know-what-woke
That last section is fascinating. It says that 47% of the people that considered themselves to be woke, also believed that wanting stronger action on climate change was a woke thing. That was from 2022, but it shows that the idea of 'woke' really isn't well understood, even by those that promote it as a good thing."I thought it was a fairly well broke down study. | |||
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"£878,000,000,000 national debt 2010 £2,591,000,000,000 in 2024, after austerity and being “fiscally responsible”" This is fiscally responsible. The Tories have increased national debt hugely at a time when interest rates have been at a historic low. Exactly as the Labour government did in 2008, when they increased the national debt by 35% in 1 year, followed by another 29% the year after. Then when interest rates started to rise, the Tories stopped borrowing and the national debt fell for the first time in decades. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Do you know what "woke" means? Assuming you do, why is it "bullshit" to be aware of social injustice, especially racism. I think the poster isn't referring to woke in your literal meaning, woke was ambushed by the progressives and morphed into many meanings, although it originates as you say. Exactly this , thanks " Which meaning is the one you meant? Maybe it would be better explaining, otherwise it just looks like you've got beef with people who call out racism. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly. Probably the kind you are going to try and catch him out on?" Well he used the term, so I’d like to know his definition. Am still waiting for it | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly. You’re obviously a labour fan so what makes you think they’ll improve anything if they get into power ? " Well I’d like to hear about the ‘woke bullshit’ first, fella | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly. You’re obviously a labour fan so what makes you think they’ll improve anything if they get into power ? " In answer to this, it’s a two part response. Firstly, the last time Labour were in power, they did a pretty fine job, all things considered. Many excellent schemes were introduced, particularly strong on homelessness and upwards mobility. They also managed finances extremely well and even after the global financial crisis it’s now regarded that Gordon Brown did an upstanding job in managing the situation. Secondly, one only has to look at the last 13 years and what a shambles the Tories have made of everything they’ve touched in order to realise that we need a change. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly. You’re obviously a labour fan so what makes you think they’ll improve anything if they get into power ? In answer to this, it’s a two part response. Firstly, the last time Labour were in power, they did a pretty fine job, all things considered. Many excellent schemes were introduced, particularly strong on homelessness and upwards mobility. They also managed finances extremely well and even after the global financial crisis it’s now regarded that Gordon Brown did an upstanding job in managing the situation. Secondly, one only has to look at the last 13 years and what a shambles the Tories have made of everything they’ve touched in order to realise that we need a change. " Thank you, I needed a laugh, although I agree we need a change | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly. You’re obviously a labour fan so what makes you think they’ll improve anything if they get into power ? In answer to this, it’s a two part response. Firstly, the last time Labour were in power, they did a pretty fine job, all things considered. Many excellent schemes were introduced, particularly strong on homelessness and upwards mobility. They also managed finances extremely well and even after the global financial crisis it’s now regarded that Gordon Brown did an upstanding job in managing the situation. Secondly, one only has to look at the last 13 years and what a shambles the Tories have made of everything they’ve touched in order to realise that we need a change. Thank you, I needed a laugh, although I agree we need a change "Not sure what I said that was so funny. | |||
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"What will be the first thing they do,in your opinion? Fuck every up even more with all their woke bull shit Can you explain further? Personally not a Tory fan but think a labour government with the people they have in charge would be an absolute shambles , need strong leadership that doesn’t roll over to please everyone , hope that helps?? Not really. I’m not sure what ‘woke bullshit’ you’re referring to, exactly. You’re obviously a labour fan so what makes you think they’ll improve anything if they get into power ? In answer to this, it’s a two part response. Firstly, the last time Labour were in power, they did a pretty fine job, all things considered. Many excellent schemes were introduced, particularly strong on homelessness and upwards mobility. They also managed finances extremely well and even after the global financial crisis it’s now regarded that Gordon Brown did an upstanding job in managing the situation. Secondly, one only has to look at the last 13 years and what a shambles the Tories have made of everything they’ve touched in order to realise that we need a change. Thank you, I needed a laugh, although I agree we need a change
Not sure what I said that was so funny. "I know | |||
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"Also it would mean 5 more years at least of Kier Starmer still struggling to to people what a woman is, what a working class citizen is and more flip flopping on things he used to say back in the past and changes his mind. Not good traits of a Prime Minister I'm afraid " What is the definition of working class in the 21st century? This ain’t a gotcha, it’s not easily defined as it once was. | |||
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"Also it would mean 5 more years at least of Kier Starmer still struggling to to people what a woman is, what a working class citizen is and more flip flopping on things he used to say back in the past and changes his mind. Not good traits of a Prime Minister I'm afraid What is the definition of working class in the 21st century? This ain’t a gotcha, it’s not easily defined as it once was." People who put the milk in the tea cup first and then add the tea | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott." Let’s be honest though, the utilities have not exactly been run well since privatisation now have they? | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott." If anyone genuinely thinks Labour are going to nationalise utility and infrastructure, I've a feeling they'll be left disappointed. | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott." The weird fetish experiment of privatising everything that can be sold has not really worked for the benefit of ordinary people has it? We might be one of the richest countries in the world but the wealth is all in the wrong hands. A country’s assets are its wealth and our assets have all been sold off. It can’t be that difficult to bring core infrastructure back into public ownership. It would certainly be a popular move. | |||
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"I have been a vocal supporter of utilities being in public ownership. But if they did renationalise you can bet your bottom dollar (pound) that as there will be no experts already in the public sector to run/operate these businesses, it will be the same useless self serving execs who run the businesses now." I'm also in favour, I just don't see it happening. | |||
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"I have been a vocal supporter of utilities being in public ownership. But if they did renationalise you can bet your bottom dollar (pound) that as there will be no experts already in the public sector to run/operate these businesses, it will be the same useless self serving execs who run the businesses now. I'm also in favour, I just don't see it happening. " If Labour got a huge majority and 2nd term perhaps. But yeah I agree, unlikely. | |||
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"I have been a vocal supporter of utilities being in public ownership. But if they did renationalise you can bet your bottom dollar (pound) that as there will be no experts already in the public sector to run/operate these businesses, it will be the same useless self serving execs who run the businesses now. I'm also in favour, I just don't see it happening. If Labour got a huge majority and 2nd term perhaps. But yeah I agree, unlikely." Is that 'if you give us 2 terms, we'll nationalise utilities in 5 years time'? Sounds like 'we'll change our mind later because "it's not the right time"'. That'll be called out as flip flopping, 'typical Starmer behaviour'. Neither of the big 2 are going to make any meaningful change, the best we can hope for is Labour quietly going about business but the way politics is at the moment, I doubt that too. | |||
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"I have been a vocal supporter of utilities being in public ownership. But if they did renationalise you can bet your bottom dollar (pound) that as there will be no experts already in the public sector to run/operate these businesses, it will be the same useless self serving execs who run the businesses now. I'm also in favour, I just don't see it happening. If Labour got a huge majority and 2nd term perhaps. But yeah I agree, unlikely. Is that 'if you give us 2 terms, we'll nationalise utilities in 5 years time'? Sounds like 'we'll change our mind later because "it's not the right time"'. That'll be called out as flip flopping, 'typical Starmer behaviour'. Neither of the big 2 are going to make any meaningful change, the best we can hope for is Labour quietly going about business but the way politics is at the moment, I doubt that too. " If I was Labour I would not want the job. They will be inheriting a shit show so huge that they will not be able to deliver on their manifesto promises without making things worse. My point on nationalisation was that I doubt it would feature in manifesto for this GE but if they secure a huge majority and the 4-5 years goes well, then I cam imagine it featuring in the next manifesto for 2029(ish). | |||
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"I have been a vocal supporter of utilities being in public ownership. But if they did renationalise you can bet your bottom dollar (pound) that as there will be no experts already in the public sector to run/operate these businesses, it will be the same useless self serving execs who run the businesses now. I'm also in favour, I just don't see it happening. If Labour got a huge majority and 2nd term perhaps. But yeah I agree, unlikely. Is that 'if you give us 2 terms, we'll nationalise utilities in 5 years time'? Sounds like 'we'll change our mind later because "it's not the right time"'. That'll be called out as flip flopping, 'typical Starmer behaviour'. Neither of the big 2 are going to make any meaningful change, the best we can hope for is Labour quietly going about business but the way politics is at the moment, I doubt that too. If I was Labour I would not want the job. They will be inheriting a shit show so huge that they will not be able to deliver on their manifesto promises without making things worse. My point on nationalisation was that I doubt it would feature in manifesto for this GE but if they secure a huge majority and the 4-5 years goes well, then I cam imagine it featuring in the next manifesto for 2029(ish). " They will get a large enough majority that they'll be able to tackle problems whilst making things worse initially because people will give them some time. Will they try to tackle the problems though? Second point clarified | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott. The weird fetish experiment of privatising everything that can be sold has not really worked for the benefit of ordinary people has it? We might be one of the richest countries in the world but the wealth is all in the wrong hands. A country’s assets are its wealth and our assets have all been sold off. It can’t be that difficult to bring core infrastructure back into public ownership. It would certainly be a popular move." It has worked out, just that things aren't perfect but far better than they would be under government control. I remember the bad days of government-run mines, steel, cars, ports, telecoms. An utter fiasco. | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott. The weird fetish experiment of privatising everything that can be sold has not really worked for the benefit of ordinary people has it? We might be one of the richest countries in the world but the wealth is all in the wrong hands. A country’s assets are its wealth and our assets have all been sold off. It can’t be that difficult to bring core infrastructure back into public ownership. It would certainly be a popular move. It has worked out, just that things aren't perfect but far better than they would be under government control. I remember the bad days of government-run mines, steel, cars, ports, telecoms. An utter fiasco." I think core services such as water and energy should be owned by the country and outsourced for management, billing, customer services etc. We should see a reduction in bills, not huge but enough. I think the same path for the NHS, and trim it right down to support those who can't afford private medical cover, instead of building it to support everyone. | |||
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"I think core services such as water and energy should be owned by the country and outsourced for management, billing, customer services etc. We should see a reduction in bills, not huge but enough." With proper controls in place, yes I agree. | |||
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"£878,000,000,000 national debt 2010 £2,591,000,000,000 in 2024, after austerity and being “fiscally responsible” This is fiscally responsible. The Tories have increased national debt hugely at a time when interest rates have been at a historic low. Exactly as the Labour government did in 2008, when they increased the national debt by 35% in 1 year, followed by another 29% the year after. Then when interest rates started to rise, the Tories stopped borrowing and the national debt fell for the first time in decades." Agreed, labour and tories have together made a six fold increase in the national debt since 1997 This is not an overdraft that will ever be repaid, the current £9bn monthly interest is with us for good, in the face of failing/under funded public services. Debt interest is equivalent to £3700 per household per annum, rising taxes to pay for it. Tory tax rises this equates to a total amount of £5,486 per household compared to £3,504 a decade ago, wage growth has been less. Whatever people’s voting colours can’t see exponential debt growth being financially responsible. Thornberry on QT this week said labour will be borrowing. | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott. Let’s be honest though, the utilities have not exactly been run well since privatisation now have they?"
A right mess and too big to fail, so propped with taxpayer money | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott. The weird fetish experiment of privatising everything that can be sold has not really worked for the benefit of ordinary people has it? We might be one of the richest countries in the world but the wealth is all in the wrong hands. A country’s assets are its wealth and our assets have all been sold off. It can’t be that difficult to bring core infrastructure back into public ownership. It would certainly be a popular move." lol it was never meant to benefit ordinary people,once it was privatised it was only ever meant to benefit the share holders like every other private buisness | |||
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"Labour will nationalise all utility and infrastructure companies so they can be run as efficiently as the Post Office and NHS under the expert eye of such business titans as Diane Abbott. Let’s be honest though, the utilities have not exactly been run well since privatisation now have they?
A right mess and too big to fail, so propped with taxpayer money "And all the tax payer money spunked on Tory donors government contracts, Mone etc HMRC pays rent on its 600 regional offices from a company called Mapeley Steps Limited, which is registered in the tax haven Bermuda https://amp.theguardian.com/politics/2021/nov/25/hmrc-to-relocate-to-newcastle-office-owned-by-tory-donors-via-tax-haven | |||
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"Let's not vote for Tories or Labour, enough of the 2 party system and vote for a different party instead don't care who you want to vote for as long as it ain't Tories or Labour " The system needs changing before voting for any less significant party becomes viable. Otherwise the Tories are likely to be the only beneficiaries from a split vote. Wonder why they are in no hurry to change that? | |||
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"Let's not vote for Tories or Labour, enough of the 2 party system and vote for a different party instead don't care who you want to vote for as long as it ain't Tories or Labour " The greens are a credible party, so are Lib Dems. Reform, for example, are not. Just refusing to vote lab/con is a stupid idea that would hamstring parliament if it succeeded, and probably just return the Tories if it failed. | |||
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"Let's not vote for Tories or Labour, enough of the 2 party system and vote for a different party instead don't care who you want to vote for as long as it ain't Tories or Labour The system needs changing before voting for any less significant party becomes viable. Otherwise the Tories are likely to be the only beneficiaries from a split vote. Wonder why they are in no hurry to change that?" The split vote this time round is going to hinder the Tories, not benefit them. | |||
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