FabSwingers.com forum: The Scottish

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Nicola Sturgeon has set a date for the next independence referendum on the grounds that Scotland did not vote for Brexit. The world is a strange place. If Scotland leave the union and England rejoin the EU then could that mean they might want to rejoin the English to get back in the EU by the back door

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Sturgeon has watched too much Braveheart.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 29/06/22 08:35:16]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A lot of ifs in this post. What if a giant nuclear evolved dinosaur death rays Edinburgh, would England get the free school meals Scotland no longer wants?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they get a ref I imagine they’ll vote to become independent and mainly because they’ll want away from the Tories in Westminster. But England won’t be rejoining the EU. Scotland is much more likely to have grounds to rejoin as a new independent state. It’s already a right mess and that could make things even worse. The Tories have fucked this place up.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

I'm pretty certain Scotland wouldn't need to rejoin England to get into the EU and they could do it alone.

Also, after the faff we caused the EU, it's unlikely we will be voted back in any time soon, and definitely not with the benefits we previously had.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

"A lot of ifs in this post. What if a giant nuclear evolved dinosaur death rays Edinburgh, would England get the free school meals Scotland no longer wants?"

They might be a bit overcooked.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it."

I'm English, and I say fuck the English rule over them.

It's stupid that we can essentially veto Scotland trying to leave us. Should we really be holding them prisoner?

It's unfair and in older days would be the sort of thing that set off civil wars. If we want Scotland to stay, we should be making it somewhere they 'want' to stay, not forcing them in it. We aren't fucking Russia!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it."

Fingers crossed she doesnt i for one am sick of hearing about referendums, the people voted in 2014, no then no now

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

I'm English, and I say fuck the English rule over them.

It's stupid that we can essentially veto Scotland trying to leave us. Should we really be holding them prisoner?

The last referendum was in favour of staying united.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield

"Fingers crossed she doesnt i for one am sick of hearing about referendums, the people voted in 2014, no then no now"

Opinions change. I doubt Brexit would get the slim majority now!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

I'm English, and I say fuck the English rule over them.

It's stupid that we can essentially veto Scotland trying to leave us. Should we really be holding them prisoner?

Its not england but its the uk which we are all part of, and the majority of scots voted only 8 years ago to remain

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I live there . Most like many can’t even fill their cars up . And watch Boris and the constant Tory sh1t show and will still want to remain in the Union only for tribal reasons .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otsossieMan
over a year ago

Chesterfield

"I live there . Most like many can’t even fill their cars up . And watch Boris and the constant Tory sh1t show and will still want to remain in the Union only for tribal reasons . "

This is the thing. When I lived there I’d have voted against independence. After the absolute shitshow since the last referendum I want to move back there and leave.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"I live there . Most like many can’t even fill their cars up . And watch Boris and the constant Tory sh1t show and will still want to remain in the Union only for tribal reasons . "

This, get us tae fuck

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *om and JennieCouple
over a year ago

Chams or Socials

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

I'm English, and I say fuck the English rule over them.

It's stupid that we can essentially veto Scotland trying to leave us. Should we really be holding them prisoner?

Its not england but its the uk which we are all part of, and the majority of scots voted only 8 years ago to remain "

The 1st vote should have been held after the Brexit vote - it might have been a different result then. I’m all for independence - I wonder what colour passport I can get???

J x

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ozapperMan
over a year ago

Lancashire

If the Brexit Northern Ireland customs agreement is difficult to implement then just imagine the issues having an England/Scotland border would bring. The mind boggles.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ldershyguyMan
over a year ago

Mansfield

Good luck. Rebuild Hadrians wall.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Good luck. Rebuild Hadrians wall."

You know where that is right?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

the reason want to leave england is simple..our vote in scoland is pointless..

about 80%of scots wanted to stay part of europian unions and voted for it but because england has more of a population and they voted the other way we had to leave europe..its been the same for most of the elections over the years so its not because we dont want to be friends its just so our vote can count towards making a differance

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

I'm English, and I say fuck the English rule over them.

It's stupid that we can essentially veto Scotland trying to leave us. Should we really be holding them prisoner?

Its not england but its the uk which we are all part of, and the majority of scots voted only 8 years ago to remain

The 1st vote should have been held after the Brexit vote - it might have been a different result then. I’m all for independence - I wonder what colour passport I can get???

J x"

Whatever colour you want you can even pick if its felt tip pen or crayon you colour it in with

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *urganguyMan
over a year ago

around

[Removed by poster at 29/06/22 09:28:37]

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *urganguyMan
over a year ago

around

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

Fingers crossed she doesnt i for one am sick of hearing about referendums, the people voted in 2014, no then no now"

So am I, many Scottish friends think the woman is insane as there are so many other problems for her to sort first. Many of them her own making.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If Scotland get to vote and they vote to leave the bonus would be she wouldn't be soiling my tele as much.. so just for that I hope you get your independence.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oldswarriorMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

No.

I voted for independence in 2014.

Unfortunately Sturgeon's indipendance war cry is her only party piece.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

Perhaps there should be a referendum in the rest of the UK to decide if Scotland can stay part of the Union.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

Fingers crossed she doesnt i for one am sick of hearing about referendums, the people voted in 2014, no then no now

So am I, many Scottish friends think the woman is insane as there are so many other problems for her to sort first. Many of them her own making. "

Goes on daily about food banks but will gladly spend millions on a referndum that the majority voted no for 1st time around.. womans mental

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If Scotland get to vote and they vote to leave the bonus would be she wouldn't be soiling my tele as much.. so just for that I hope you get your independence. "

Try being scottish and have the rest of the planet think we all love her..

Please dont wish that on us

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Jimmy Krankie

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Poison Ivy (there is another name but I don't want to risk offending someone), only has one record and that's for Independence. She would fall to the wayside as soon as it becomes reality. Her economics and policies don't really add up, she would probably try to ally with England whilst she tries and fails to enter the EU.

I met her once, you know that feeling you get when you meet someone who is 2 short planks? She's clever don't get me wrong, she would have to be to be leader of her party, but I wouldn't trust to find her way out of a paper bag

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *iwmwpg1Man
over a year ago

Kidwelly

Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

Let the English vote on Scottish affairs…? there’s the issue right there

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?"

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have heard she is a rug muncher as well

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

I'm English, and I say fuck the English rule over them.

It's stupid that we can essentially veto Scotland trying to leave us. Should we really be holding them prisoner?

The last referendum was in favour of staying united."

Yes, but things change.

They voted to stay united with us whilst we were part of the EU, then we decided to leave the EU despite Scotland wanting to remain.

As we have changed the landscape, they should be able to have another say on if they still want to remain.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

For me this is so much more complicated than yes or no and the zealots that try and bang their drum the loudest. Its a chance to get away from westminster and the Tories and an embarrassingly impotent Labour opposition who have forgot or shied away from their union roots.

However I'd also much prefer a Scotland that wasn't ruled by the SNP and their toxic supporters. I feel a sense of guilt for the working class English people we could leave behind who have been continually let down by a political system thats only function seems to be siphoning public money into private companies and offshore accounts (see reasons behind the current rail strikes as an example and the media manipulation that goes hand in hand).

Brexit has hurt me professionally and personally, friends have left the UK who had settled here. I also feel England seems to be swinging more and more to the right (no pun intended) in areas that should never be voting conservative.

An independent Scotland would be continually sabotaged financially by a bitter westminster (see current brexit situation NI protocol etc).

Its a big mess, some like me are apathetic as nothing seems to stop the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer, all we seem to vote for is who is going to fuck us up more.

I dont know how or if I will vote if it comes to that, its going to take a lot to filter the idiots on both sides. But I'm tired of politics.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

"For me this is so much more complicated than yes or no and the zealots that try and bang their drum the loudest. Its a chance to get away from westminster and the Tories and an embarrassingly impotent Labour opposition who have forgot or shied away from their union roots.

An independent Scotland would be continually sabotaged financially by a bitter westminster (see current brexit situation NI protocol etc).

Its a big mess, some like me are apathetic as nothing seems to stop the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer, all we seem to vote for is who is going to fuck us up more.

I dont know how or if I will vote if it comes to that, its going to take a lot to filter the idiots on both sides. But I'm tired of politics.

If Scotland were independent, how could Westminster sabotage them?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An independent Scotland would be continually sabotaged financially by a bitter westminster (see current brexit situation NI protocol etc).

Its a big mess, some like me are apathetic as nothing seems to stop the poor getting poorer and the rich getting richer, all we seem to vote for is who is going to fuck us up more.

I dont know how or if I will vote if it comes to that, its going to take a lot to filter the idiots on both sides. But I'm tired of politics.

If Scotland were independent, how could Westminster sabotage them?"

What percentage of trade from Scotland goes to the UK? This wouldn’t end if they went independent, but uk could/would add tariffs, could effect lots of Scottish businesses

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" If Scotland were independent, how could Westminster sabotage them?"

Can't drum up every scenario, but could foresee agreements being broken from any potential separation that suddenly didn't suit them.

Again, looking specifically at how they've behaved during brexit as a recent case in point. Ministers up in arms over the details of deals they negotiated.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?"
sane Scott’s ? Have U watched the Tory sh1t show or have y had yer head in the sand ? The fella and party down sth are an abomination hen

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Tom, there is a politics forum, please use it for politic subjects

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most Scottish realise the current horrible situation is temporary and there is no sense in leaving the union.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *RANDMRSJAECouple
over a year ago

chester

Just be thankful you don’t have Drakeford’s shit show!!!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *itzi999Woman
over a year ago

Slough

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it."

Nicola is going to the Supreme Court. If they agree to it, then she can hold a referendum.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Tom, there is a politics forum, please use it for politic subjects"

Oops sorry .. will do in future. It's just that the lounge has much nicer people than the other fora.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ebjonnsonMan
over a year ago

Maldon

There is more that unites than divides us. However, right now, I wouldn’t blame them for going it alone.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im all for independence if that's what the Scottish people want. but what independence would it be mine wouldn't be what they might want if they want to go that's democracy but it's total independent no help from England border up pul6all government jobs contracts within the year I hope they don't but be honest up front if they do.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Perhaps there should be a referendum in the rest of the UK to decide if Scotland can stay part of the Union."
totally agree

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Perhaps there should be a referendum in the rest of the UK to decide if Scotland can stay part of the Union. totally agree "

In the way the rest of the European countries got a vote in Brexit? Oh wait no they didn’t

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

I'm English, and I say fuck the English rule over them.

It's stupid that we can essentially veto Scotland trying to leave us. Should we really be holding them prisoner?

So much common sense in one post

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

The population of Scotland is just over 5 million and spread over a huge area, the population of London is over 9 million, condensed. Scotland may find it hard to fund a split successfully, leading to a a very shaky independence, with no guarantee of ever joining the EU in the next 25 years.

The idea that Scotland voted to stay in the EU so therefore should be independent, is the same as saying all of the towns and cities in England that had voted positively to stay in the EU should also be independent..

What next Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds a north, south split.... we are small island.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"The population of Scotland is just over 5 million and spread over a huge area, the population of London is over 9 million, condensed. Scotland may find it hard to fund a split successfully, leading to a a very shaky independence, with no guarantee of ever joining the EU in the next 25 years.

What next Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds a north, south split.... we are small island."

I think the arguement isn't - "Scotland voted to stay in the EU so therefore should be independent".

It's, things have changed a lot since the last referendum. And there are different implications and opportunities for an independent or non-indepenedent Scotland, than there were before.

They think that the prospect of rejoining the EU, even if it is a longshot, might persuade more people to vote for independence.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

What next Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds a north, south split.... we are small island.

I think the arguement isn't - "Scotland voted to stay in the EU so therefore should be independent".

It's, things have changed a lot since the last referendum. And there are different implications and opportunities for an independent or non-indepenedent Scotland, than there were before.

They think that the prospect of rejoining the EU, even if it is a longshot, might persuade more people to vote for independence."

From the BBC "Ms Sturgeon called for another referendum - "indyref2" - immediately after the UK as a whole voted to leave the EU in the 2016 Brexit referendum. Scottish voters backed remain by 62% by 38%."

I agree she will use that 62% as a leverage to get her over the line.

My question is, what would be the cost to the Scottish people if Scotland became independent?

We learnt from Brexit, that numbers and facts get thrown around like confetti, and are worth about as much. The egos drive to succeed comes at a price and I would not like to see the population of Scotland vote on such an important life changing event, stoked up on stories of joining the EU and becoming X times more wealthy, without the most stringent scrutiny being applied.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

What next Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds a north, south split.... we are small island.

I think the arguement isn't - "Scotland voted to stay in the EU so therefore should be independent".

It's, things have changed a lot since the last referendum. And there are different implications and opportunities for an independent or non-indepenedent Scotland, than there were before.

They think that the prospect of rejoining the EU, even if it is a longshot, might persuade more people to vote for independence.

I agree she will use that 62% as a leverage to get her over the line.

My question is, what would be the cost to the Scottish people if Scotland became independent?

It all hinges on how likely they will be able to join the EU as an independent Scotland. If the SNP can demonstrate that it's possible and likely. Then it could be great for Scotland.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell? sane Scott’s ? Have U watched the Tory sh1t show or have y had yer head in the sand ? The fella and party down sth are an abomination hen "

Scots** and please dont patronise me calling me hen!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters"

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next"

Bit dramtaic pal, next, seriously get a grip we are allowed an opinion i dont like yours you dont like mine.. typical of the snp to tear this country, families and friends apart just like they done in 2014.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

Dramatic

Dramatic was the 62% of Scotland who voted to stay in the EU and weren’t listened to. It’s not that I don’t like your opinion it’s that I don’t understand it

Peace

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

Oh and don’t patronise me with “pal”

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

Never seen any families or friends torn apart you should stop listening to tory and labour propaganda

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

Dramatic

Dramatic was the 62% of Scotland who voted to stay in the EU and weren’t listened to. It’s not that I don’t like your opinion it’s that I don’t understand it

Peace

Like the 54% who voted no and not being listened to? Democracy is a joke in scotland

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

Never seen any families or friends torn apart you should stop listening to tory and labour propaganda

I dont listen to news or politics for that fact i know personally families who have been torn apart for not liking snp or voting no

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

Oh and don’t patronise me with “pal”

And its started haha

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eneralKenobiMan
over a year ago

North Angus

"Scots** and please dont patronise me calling me hen! "

Yep I started it

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

What next Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds a north, south split.... we are small island.

I think the arguement isn't - "Scotland voted to stay in the EU so therefore should be independent".

It's, things have changed a lot since the last referendum. And there are different implications and opportunities for an independent or non-indepenedent Scotland, than there were before.

They think that the prospect of rejoining the EU, even if it is a longshot, might persuade more people to vote for independence.

I agree she will use that 62% as a leverage to get her over the line.

My question is, what would be the cost to the Scottish people if Scotland became independent?

It all hinges on how likely they will be able to join the EU as an independent Scotland. If the SNP can demonstrate that it's possible and likely. Then it could be great for Scotland.

Agree with that, but I think the only way to demonstrate it is possible for Scotland to join the EU is to have an independent body apply the criteria for entry and show the likelihood of success based on the results and an EU response. Anything short of that would be guess work and propaganda aimed a cajoling the voting public.

I wouldn't wish another Brexit style mess on the people of Scotland, they deserve the truth on the outcome to allow them to make an informed decision for their future.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Scots** and please dont patronise me calling me hen!

Yep I started it

Pal and hen are completely different ways to address someone, calling me hen is very patronising i thought pal was more sincere?? Plus that wasnt quoted at yourself, so technically you did start it in our discussion.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

What next Manchester, Newcastle, Leeds a north, south split.... we are small island.

I think the arguement isn't - "Scotland voted to stay in the EU so therefore should be independent".

It's, things have changed a lot since the last referendum. And there are different implications and opportunities for an independent or non-indepenedent Scotland, than there were before.

They think that the prospect of rejoining the EU, even if it is a longshot, might persuade more people to vote for independence.

I agree she will use that 62% as a leverage to get her over the line.

My question is, what would be the cost to the Scottish people if Scotland became independent?

It all hinges on how likely they will be able to join the EU as an independent Scotland. If the SNP can demonstrate that it's possible and likely. Then it could be great for Scotland.

I wouldn't wish another Brexit style mess on the people of Scotland, they deserve the truth on the outcome to allow them to make an informed decision for their future. "

Agree with all that.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!"

Dumbo and Mrs Jumbo?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"Let the English vote too..... Then we'll never have to hear from or deal with her again, gone!

What about the sane Scots who dont want to hear about her aswell?

Your ballots go in the box alongside the rest of us. Which has kept the SNP in power for 15 years with independence in their campaign. Speaks volumes

The same ballot boxes we voted for a no independance? Seems she only cares for independance rather than her voters

Which then changed as we were dragged out the EU against our will? Next

Never seen any families or friends torn apart you should stop listening to tory and labour propaganda

I dont listen to news or politics for that fact i know personally families who have been torn apart for not liking snp or voting no "

Or the other way like liking snp and voting yes

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!

Dumbo and Mrs Jumbo? "

When Tom was at school they had rubbers as we innocently called them but apparently they are now called pencil erasers.

The jumbo was large and pink.

Not sure why it was not called a pig rubber.

It should have been grey

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!

Dumbo and Mrs Jumbo?

When Tom was at school they had rubbers as we innocently called them but apparently they are now called pencil erasers.

The jumbo was large and pink.

Not sure why it was not called a pig rubber.

It should have been grey "

Why would it be called a pig rubber?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!

Dumbo and Mrs Jumbo?

When Tom was at school they had rubbers as we innocently called them but apparently they are now called pencil erasers.

The jumbo was large and pink.

Not sure why it was not called a pig rubber.

It should have been grey

Why would it be called a pig rubber? "

It was pink

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!

Dumbo and Mrs Jumbo?

When Tom was at school they had rubbers as we innocently called them but apparently they are now called pencil erasers.

The jumbo was large and pink.

Not sure why it was not called a pig rubber.

It should have been grey

Why would it be called a pig rubber?

It was pink"

Ah, not all pigs are pink though, why should it have been grey? What is that all about?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

I read today that if she is denied the official referendum then she will class the next GE as a de facto referendum. What does that mean if, as you would expect the SNP win in Scotland? Can she just claim independence? Also what is the threshold to reach as apparently her deputy got it wrong in an interview? It's not even started yet and already many questions

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entlemanFoxMan
over a year ago

North East / London

I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

As I understand their beef is that Scotland is not well served by an out of touch government in London (270 miles from Gretna) where they have 47 seats out of 650 and a permanent seat at the cabinet (Scottish Secretary).

The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels where there are 6 seats out of 705 (and counting) and no permanent representation on the Commission.

shurely shome mishtake as Private Eye would say?

Just as an aside the average time a country has taken to accede to the EU is 6 years. That is 6 years hanging in the wind.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otbeefandonionsCouple
over a year ago

Bathgate

Here's my thoughts as I haven't seen anyone mention the nukes this time around.

NATO depends on the submarine base strategically. If the subs can't work from there then it's basically leaving the door open for Russia to go wherever and do whatever it wants when it gets there, which given what's happening in Ukraine right now, is madness.

Most of, if not all of the EU is in NATO. Scotland would be out of NATO, out of the EU and have no prospect of joining either unless they backed down on nuclear weapons.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels where there are 6 seats out of 705 (and counting) and no permanent representation on the Commission.

shurely shome mishtake as Private Eye would say?

Just as an aside the average time a country has taken to accede to the EU is 6 years. That is 6 years hanging in the wind.

This isn't how the EU works. No wonder we ended up with brexit.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *entlemanFoxMan
over a year ago

North East / London

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

[snip]...

This isn't how the EU works. No wonder we ended up with brexit."

Well please enlighten us, It is not clear if you are saying:

1. It doesn't take 6 years on average to accede to the EU; or

2. An independent Scotland will be only a small 1 of 27+ members and have less control over its own destiny inside the EU?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!

Dumbo and Mrs Jumbo?

When Tom was at school they had rubbers as we innocently called them but apparently they are now called pencil erasers.

The jumbo was large and pink.

Not sure why it was not called a pig rubber.

It should have been grey

Why would it be called a pig rubber?

It was pink

Ah, not all pigs are pink though, why should it have been grey? What is that all about? "

Elephants are grey.. keep up..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *arriedandlooking1928Man
over a year ago

Kilmarnock

Never going to happen. The English and Welsh took us out by a very small majority.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

"Nobody is mentioning the two elephants in the corner!

Dumbo and Mrs Jumbo?

When Tom was at school they had rubbers as we innocently called them but apparently they are now called pencil erasers.

The jumbo was large and pink.

Not sure why it was not called a pig rubber.

It should have been grey

Why would it be called a pig rubber?

It was pink

Ah, not all pigs are pink though, why should it have been grey? What is that all about?

Elephants are grey.. keep up.. "

Why aren't all jumbo jets grey then?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Never going to happen. The English and Welsh took us out by a very small majority. "

4% of 60 million is a lot of votes to be fair

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

[snip]...

This isn't how the EU works. No wonder we ended up with brexit.

Well please enlighten us, It is not clear if you are saying:

1. It doesn't take 6 years on average to accede to the EU; or

2. An independent Scotland will be only a small 1 of 27+ members and have less control over its own destiny inside the EU?"

Sorry, I was referring to "The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ohnnyTwoNotesMan
over a year ago

golden fields

"Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out.. "

Who says this?

England wouldn't be able to rejoin with with rest of the UK.

The rest is nonsensical based on the above.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

"Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out.. "

We were one of the founding countries and as such had extra privileges not given to other countries.

If we rejoin, we will not be in that position and the other members would all remember us as 'the spliters' and trust in us would be lesser, so it stands to reason that we wouldn't get it as good as we had it.

OK, we can't be certain about that, we could do an amazing job of negotiating it... but that doesn't seem something the government is exactly great at.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

"Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out..

We were one of the founding countries and as such had extra privileges not given to other countries.

OK, we can't be certain about that, we could do an amazing job of negotiating it... but that doesn't seem something the government is exactly great at. "

The UK was not one of the founding countries.

The Treaty of Rome which was the basis of the EEC as it was in those days was signed in 1957. Britain's membership was vetoed in 1961 by the French and we finally joined in 1973, at the same time as Denmark and Ireland. The 'extra' privileges were negotiated by Thatcher and Major.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out..

We were one of the founding countries and as such had extra privileges not given to other countries.

OK, we can't be certain about that, we could do an amazing job of negotiating it... but that doesn't seem something the government is exactly great at.

The UK was not one of the founding countries.

Do the French vetoed us in 1961. That's says a lot to me. They were up to their old tricks even then...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out.. "

Yes I agree, the EU would be worse off

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted yes last time but this time its a big NO

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"I voted yes last time but this time its a big NO "

No to leave or No to stay? What are the reasons for the no?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I voted yes last time but this time its a big NO

No to leave or No to stay? What are the reasons for the no?"

No to independence reasons SNP are bad for Scotland, the divisions here are getting wider and I fear we will end up like NI from the 70/80s

People need to stop watching braveheart and wake up

I would give her the vote as it will be a resounding NO

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

"I voted yes last time but this time its a big NO

No to leave or No to stay? What are the reasons for the no?

No to independence reasons SNP are bad for Scotland, the divisions here are getting wider and I fear we will end up like NI from the 70/80s

People need to stop watching braveheart and wake up

I would give her the vote as it will be a resounding NO "

They said that about the Brexit referendum.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lashnannieCouple
over a year ago

Dundee

I think some people are missing part of the story. Should Scotland gain independence wee Nicola would not be in charge of the country, she is leader of the devolved parliament which would have no jurisdiction over the new independent state. There would need to be a general election, in which the SNP would struggle as their main policy would cease to exist. Personality and party/personal hatreds should not be a guiding issue in a debate as important as this.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think some people are missing part of the story. Should Scotland gain independence wee Nicola would not be in charge of the country, she is leader of the devolved parliament which would have no jurisdiction over the new independent state. There would need to be a general election, in which the SNP would struggle as their main policy would cease to exist. Personality and party/personal hatreds should not be a guiding issue in a debate as important as this."

No way she is giving up power they would rebrand themselves

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

Look at what she and the Nats have done to Scotland with the considerable power they already have.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels where there are 6 seats out of 705 (and counting) and no permanent representation on the Commission.

shurely shome mishtake as Private Eye would say?

Just as an aside the average time a country has taken to accede to the EU is 6 years. That is 6 years hanging in the wind.

If you want an idea as to how Scotland will cope as an independent nation - take a look at Norway. They could join EFTA immediately and allow EU accession to take its course.

Scotland will be a high tax economy just like the Scandi states. And just like the Scandi states, it will probably be a very nice place to live.

It is only in imbecilic countries like the USA and England where Governnents can get their populations to accept that taxing the lowest paid to the hilt is much more economically advantageous to them than taxing the the massively wealthy a bit more.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels where there are 6 seats out of 705 (and counting) and no permanent representation on the Commission.

shurely shome mishtake as Private Eye would say?

Just as an aside the average time a country has taken to accede to the EU is 6 years. That is 6 years hanging in the wind.

If you want an idea as to how Scotland will cope as an independent nation - take a look at Norway. They could join EFTA immediately and allow EU accession to take its course.

Scotland will be a high tax economy just like the Scandi states. And just like the Scandi states, it will probably be a very nice place to live.

That certainly sounds an obvious plan. Have they said that they intend to join EFTA. Are all the other countries that are awaiting to join the EU also in EFTA. I assume the Scottish people will be warned that their taxes are to be increased

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels where there are 6 seats out of 705 (and counting) and no permanent representation on the Commission.

shurely shome mishtake as Private Eye would say?

Just as an aside the average time a country has taken to accede to the EU is 6 years. That is 6 years hanging in the wind.

If you want an idea as to how Scotland will cope as an independent nation - take a look at Norway. They could join EFTA immediately and allow EU accession to take its course.

Scotland will be a high tax economy just like the Scandi states. And just like the Scandi states, it will probably be a very nice place to live.

Why do they need warning? It’s obvious to anyone with a crumb of common sense that taxes need to rise significantly right now across the whole of the United Kingdom.

You will probably find that like the Scandi states that their taxes will be progressive and hit the wealthiest the most.

Did you know that in the last 12 years of Conservative Government billionaire wealth in the U.K. has increased by 300% to a total of more than £600 billion pounds. There were more billionaires created in 2020 than in any other of the last 12 years - that was the time when we were all in it together if you remember.

This kind of obscene wealth should be punitively taxed by the state to support the infrastructure of the country where that wealth was generated.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Tartansplainers: people from outwith Scotland who claim to understand Scotland, it's politics and what is best for Scotland.

As usual all we are reading is many 'Tartansplainers' on this post just regurgitating the lines they have read in what is a very pro union media or making anecdotal regurgitations of a conversation they have had with someone who is "Scottish".

The simple fact is people in Scotland have voted for SNP as main party since 2007 and not without good reason. That is despite the constant barrage of mud slung at them by the pro-union media.

The fact is large swathes of the Scottish population are and have been politically astute enough to go and research and debunk much of the mud slung by the media.

Last years Scottish election resulted in the majority of seats going parties (SNP / Green) which had Indy Ref 2 at the heart of their manifestos. The promise to hold a 2nd referendum should be upheld that is simple democracy.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *eroy1000Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels where there are 6 seats out of 705 (and counting) and no permanent representation on the Commission.

shurely shome mishtake as Private Eye would say?

Just as an aside the average time a country has taken to accede to the EU is 6 years. That is 6 years hanging in the wind.

If you want an idea as to how Scotland will cope as an independent nation - take a look at Norway. They could join EFTA immediately and allow EU accession to take its course.

Scotland will be a high tax economy just like the Scandi states. And just like the Scandi states, it will probably be a very nice place to live.

Why do they need warning? It’s obvious to anyone with a crumb of common sense that taxes need to rise significantly right now across the whole of the United Kingdom.

You will probably find that like the Scandi states that their taxes will be progressive and hit the wealthiest the most.

This kind of obscene wealth should be punitively taxed by the state to support the infrastructure of the country where that wealth was generated. "

I think that if they want to go for the Scandinavian model then they should say so and be honest. If it means higher taxes then I think they should be told. Put it out there loud and clear so there is no doubt. I fully support their right for another vote and deciding their own future.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oo hotCouple
over a year ago

North West

"I have to say I am perplexed by the SNP's proposition.

The solution to this is to replace it with government in Brussels where there are 6 seats out of 705 (and counting) and no permanent representation on the Commission.

shurely shome mishtake as Private Eye would say?

Just as an aside the average time a country has taken to accede to the EU is 6 years. That is 6 years hanging in the wind.

If you want an idea as to how Scotland will cope as an independent nation - take a look at Norway. They could join EFTA immediately and allow EU accession to take its course.

Scotland will be a high tax economy just like the Scandi states. And just like the Scandi states, it will probably be a very nice place to live.

Why do they need warning? It’s obvious to anyone with a crumb of common sense that taxes need to rise significantly right now across the whole of the United Kingdom.

You will probably find that like the Scandi states that their taxes will be progressive and hit the wealthiest the most.

This kind of obscene wealth should be punitively taxed by the state to support the infrastructure of the country where that wealth was generated.

I’d support the whole of the U.K. adopting the Scandi model.

It’s time to put people first.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *mateur100Man
over a year ago

nr faversham

If the Scottish people want to be independent, so be it...but they won't vote for it

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"If the Scottish people want to be independent, so be it...but they won't vote for it "

How do you know we wont vote for it ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"Tartansplainers: people from outwith Scotland who claim to understand Scotland, it's politics and what is best for Scotland.

The simple fact is people in Scotland have voted for SNP as main party since 2007 and not without good reason. That is despite the constant barrage of mud slung at them by the pro-union media.

The fact is large swathes of the Scottish population are and have been politically astute enough to go and research and debunk much of the mud slung by the media.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think after Brexit, the Scottish people are wary of the bullshit promises that independence would bring, Sturgeon is so focused on independence, just like the eurosceptics were about brexit, she’d bring scotland down a path of ruin.

Scottish independence is a settled matter. Just like remainers had to come to peace with Brexit, the SNP need to come to peace with the result of their referendum.

If she wants to replay it again and neglect public services and actual government of Scotland, then she is a populist leader who is just as bad as the slob in charge.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"Look at what she and the Nats have done to Scotland with the considerable power they already have.

Aye doing a great job on the limited money we get back from westminister,we pay nearly 80billion and get 36billion back thats just taxes,we can do a lot more if we keep it all

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"I think after Brexit, the Scottish people are wary of the bullshit promises that independence would bring, Sturgeon is so focused on independence, just like the eurosceptics were about brexit, she’d bring scotland down a path of ruin.

Scottish independence is a settled matter. Just like remainers had to come to peace with Brexit, the SNP need to come to peace with the result of their referendum.

If she wants to replay it again and neglect public services and actual government of Scotland, then she is a populist leader who is just as bad as the slob in charge."

Seems you dont know what nationalist means,and independence is not a settled matter as after 2014 the parties agreed through the smith commision that if there was material change the scottish ppl would have the right to have another referendum

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ercuryMan
over a year ago

Grantham

2014. A democratic referendum, "a once in a generation chance" (SNP's words). Scotland decided against Independence.

Less than a few years later, the SNP are calling for "democracy to be respected"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"2014. A democratic referendum, "a once in a generation chance" (SNP's words). Scotland decided against Independence.

Less than a few years later, the SNP are calling for "democracy to be respected"

Where in law or any document is that written?,it is written in the smith commision any material change the scottish ppl can have another indyref

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *oversfunCouple
over a year ago

ayrshire

"2014. A democratic referendum, "a once in a generation chance" (SNP's words). Scotland decided against Independence.

Less than a few years later, the SNP are calling for "democracy to be respected"

"
still waiting for boris to be found in a ditch (his words)

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *otbeefandonionsCouple
over a year ago

Bathgate

If everyone went for the skandi model, can we leave out the high alcohol taxes that they have please?

I'd have to go back to making my own booze again

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Scottish independence is a settled matter."

I often wonder the point of comments like this, much the same as the often repeated "one in a generation" argument. They hold no water and are demonstrable false. Any argument otherwise is picked apart easily and quickly, so why do people keep making these comments? Do you genuinely believe this to be true inspite of the evidence showing it to be nonsense, or is it a case of repeating a lie often enough until it becomes the truth?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ackal1Couple
over a year ago

Manchester

I feel the result will continue to be a definite NO as the SNP still haven’t addressed the practical questions such as borders and currency or forecasted GDP. They still haven’t sorted stuff they are in charge of today so what hope tomorrows added problems.

Given the mess of Brexit as evidence of no thought out structured plan all independence will do is create more misery on top of that inflicted by Boris and Co.

Emotional uninformed and unplanned voting as shown with Brexit is never a good idea. Still 18% still think it was a good thing.

The Scottish voted against leaving the EU so they are it appears, far better informed and aware of the consequences .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If everyone went for the skandi model, can we leave out the high alcohol taxes that they have please?

I'd have to go back to making my own booze again

Skandi model is the mutts mutts. One of the highest standards of living in the developed world. No bigger than Scotland, less resources. Far more socially balanced and minimal poverty due to a well structured and inclusive welfare system. Alcohol is high through taxation to help curb addiction, same as 2nd car taxes to reduce pollution.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Scottish independence is a settled matter.

She not ruled out 3rd vote, we can't keep doing this until they get a win

The country is so diveded over this and at some point we need to move on

I would give them vote but if lose no more talk of it for 30 years

I voted yes last time this time will be a no as the country is a mess

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is what I hated the last time, the toxic pish this independence shite causes.

I'm scottish, I work all over England.

I dont want independence, never did.

Most of my friends and family ( who work) don't want it either .

I'm sick of listening to cunts on the dole telling me how " we will be better off" independent.. how does that work exactly??

We are one country ,have been for a long ,long time.

This toxic Independent shite is the last thing this country needs right now.

Sorry for the rant but it boils my pish..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I voted yes last time this time will be a no as the country is a mess

The state of the country at the moment is the very reason I think independence is needed now more than ever. Our hands are tied on so many matters that every other county in the world takes for granted and we don't have the autonomy to fix the problems we can.

I don't follow the comment about a 3rd vote? Democracy doesn't ever "end". Political parties don't down tools as soon as a general election is over, they continue to believe what they believe in and work towards putting forward a positive case at the next election. Independence is no different than any other political topic and as long as the SNP keep getting overwhelmingly elected to power in Scotland that will be on their agenda. Its their entire reason for existing.

I agree that refenrums and politics in general can be devisive, but cutting through the slogans and lies and deception is everyone's repaonsibility.

The question on the ballot will be "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

The question nobody can answer with any real authority or fact is "Why SHOULDNT Scotland be an independent country?"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted yes last time this time will be a no as the country is a mess

I agree that refenrums and politics in general can be devisive, but cutting through the slogans and lies and deception is everyone's repaonsibility.

The question on the ballot will be "Should Scotland be an independent country?"

The question nobody can answer with any real authority or fact is "Why SHOULDNT Scotland be an independent country?" "

There is plenty things they have complete powers over and they can't even deal with those, the country is more divided than ever and is going backwards under them

I know plenty of people who are turning away from them so I think it will be a resounding NO if it does happen which I don't think it will

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

This toxic Independent shite is the last thing this country needs right now.

Id argue there are other things the country could do without right now, like the need for food banks, bedroom taxes, political sleaze in the heart of government, having our boarders controlled by another country...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

I voted yes last time this time will be a no as the country is a mess

I'm guessing you thought Scotland should be in charge of all of its own affairs in 2014, but now you think Westminster is doing a better job that we can do on our own.

Can I ask what is is you've seen in the last 8 years than makes you No now?

It's a genuine and honest question, I dont want that to come across as cheeky or combative but I reckon understanding others viewpoints is the best way to handle the topic.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted yes last time this time will be a no as the country is a mess

I'm guessing you thought Scotland should be in charge of all of its own affairs in 2014, but now you think Westminster is doing a better job that we can do on our own.

Can I ask what is is you've seen in the last 8 years than makes you No now?

It's a genuine and honest question, I dont want that to come across as cheeky or combative but I reckon understanding others viewpoints is the best way to handle the topic. "
not Scottish. Didn't vote

But eight years ago I could see there was some logic in the plan. Sure it had some huge leaps of faith on being fast tracked to the EU given the situation and currency. But could have been worth gamble.

The EU story feels less plausible. Scotland isn't starting from being on the EU.

And its not clear how Scotland will square off the rUK not being in the EU/CU with getting back into the EU. And no way will the EU fast track Scotland in if the border isnt sorted. Properly.

So imo 8 years ago you could vote yes to a Scotland in the hope I'd being part of the EU and benefiting from that.

Today, you are voting for a completely deunionised Scotland.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted yes last time this time will be a no as the country is a mess

I'm guessing you thought Scotland should be in charge of all of its own affairs in 2014, but now you think Westminster is doing a better job that we can do on our own.

Can I ask what is is you've seen in the last 8 years than makes you No now?

It's a genuine and honest question, I dont want that to come across as cheeky or combative but I reckon understanding others viewpoints is the best way to handle the topic. "

I didn't day Westminster was doing a better job, I have no confidence in the SNP or whoever gets contol in running our country based on the last 8 years

Last time I voted with my heart but not now

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

" not Scottish. Didn't vote

The EU story feels less plausible. Scotland isn't starting from being on the EU.

And its not clear how Scotland will square off the rUK not being in the EU/CU with getting back into the EU. And no way will the EU fast track Scotland in if the border isnt sorted. Properly.

So imo 8 years ago you could vote yes to a Scotland in the hope I'd being part of the EU and benefiting from that.

Today, you are voting for a completely deunionised Scotland. "

Its an interesting point.

Scottish independence and EU membership are totally different matters and a lot of people do conflate the two. Those who think independence is the first step to re-joining the EU and those that think an independent Scotland would be "at the back of the queue" (to borrow a nonsense statement).

The most important part of it is that at the moment it really doesn't matter what the people of Scotland want in terms of future EU membership. Its a conversation and a decision being undertaken (or not) by another country and we have no real voice in the matter.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

"Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out..

We were one of the founding countries and as such had extra privileges not given to other countries.

OK, we can't be certain about that, we could do an amazing job of negotiating it... but that doesn't seem something the government is exactly great at.

The UK was not one of the founding countries.

Do the French vetoed us in 1961. That's says a lot to me. They were up to their old tricks even then... "

And they got extra privileges when we joined, which the rest of the EU at time didn't like. Those privileges are still in force today.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lynJMan
over a year ago

Morden

"Some are saying that if England rejoined the EU they would be worse off than when they were in..

Who knows..

If they rerun the referendum tomorrow then England would still be out..

We were one of the founding countries and as such had extra privileges not given to other countries.

OK, we can't be certain about that, we could do an amazing job of negotiating it... but that doesn't seem something the government is exactly great at.

The UK was not one of the founding countries.

Do the French vetoed us in 1961. That's says a lot to me. They were up to their old tricks even then...

And they got extra privileges when we joined, which the rest of the EU at time didn't like. Those privileges are still in force today. "

What extra privileges?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I voted yes last time this time will be a no as the country is a mess

I'm guessing you thought Scotland should be in charge of all of its own affairs in 2014, but now you think Westminster is doing a better job that we can do on our own.

Can I ask what is is you've seen in the last 8 years than makes you No now?

It's a genuine and honest question, I dont want that to come across as cheeky or combative but I reckon understanding others viewpoints is the best way to handle the topic.

I didn't day Westminster was doing a better job, I have no confidence in the SNP or whoever gets contol in running our country based on the last 8 years

Last time I voted with my heart but not now

100 percent spot on

The problem last time and sure to be repeated again, those for and against lie, snp, Labour you name all lies.

So I'm the absence of facts to make an informed opinion the default position I got smacked over the head with was " its worth a punt..." erm..no.

It's not a line at the bookies here.

I fundamental believe the English,Scott's, Welsh and Irish are the very best of people and the arse holes our countries are saddled with should not allow us to be divided.

We don't need to split a working team, we need parties that work for the people and are not corrupt and self serving.

So.

Stay united ,elect better officials.

Stay safe people and enjoy your weekend.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *atureMale321Man
over a year ago

Moray

Yes last time, YES this time, no offence but we can do well on our own and love thy neighbour.

Time to let go,

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Stay united ,elect better officials. "

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite."

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Anyways, I'm going to bow out of this chat and wish all well as it degenerates eventually and don't wish to go down that rabbit hole again, Best mate of 33 years ,best man at my wedding hasn't spoken to me since the last vote as I dared to vote no, I am " a traitor to my people" apparently...

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ssex_tom OP Man
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

It's a vote that has split families and communities.. your vote is private for a reason.. tell nobody how you vote.. just vote and stay silent

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

Day 1 of an independant Scotland you'll still have a vote to elect whatever party you want, but the difference will be that Scotland gets the government it votes for instead of being overshadowed by its neighbours who hold considerable power over it.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

Its unfortunate you've fallen out with your friends over it all, truly, but I don't know how much time I'd want to spend with someone who's happy to just accept things they way they are just so long as their alright.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

It's a vote that has split families and communities.. your vote is private for a reason.. tell nobody how you vote.. just vote and stay silent"

It is horrible how this country has become, the west of Scotland is this worst I have ever known it, we will end up like NI in the 70/80s when they don't get their way

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

It's a vote that has split families and communities.. your vote is private for a reason.. tell nobody how you vote.. just vote and stay silent

It is horrible how this country has become, the west of Scotland is this worst I have ever known it, we will end up like NI in the 70/80s when they don't get their way "

Yep.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

My point is people had so many lies thrown at them from all sides,both for and against splitting, all based on " facts" , so it was not possible to really have a balanced view to make an INFORMED decision, there for many voted with heart vrs head , myself I voted to keep things as they are as I won't decide my kids future on a punt .

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

I agree there is misinformation all over the place, as well as people passing off conjecture and opinion as fact, but its nobodies job but your own to educate yourself. The people that want you to stay ignorant of the possibilities have far to much to lose to go without a fight and will spread lies and slander whatever the cost.

There isnt anywhere else in the world that lives with the resources Scotland has and hands them off to a neighbour to piss up the wall while getting a pittance back. Where else in the world relies on a barnett formula to tell them how much money they're allowed to spend to run their county!!?? Its lunacy, but because its the norm people assume the alternative must be worse, when in actual fact its us that are living in a bizarre situation.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

What resources?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

Not sure how it can come across as I am all right Jack when I say in the absence of data I will stay with the safer option that is known.

I do check the facts ,always.

Unfortunately there is printed and written facts you could pluck out the air to justify both positions.

You feel you have enough Information to make your choice,that's fine.

I am not ripping into you ,or anyone else who chooses to vote how they vote.

This is NOT the case if anyone dares to vote no they get torn into with venom and generally looked at by the no voters as if they have some sort of mental illness.

It's crazy, to go throw all this devisive hatred again no thanks.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

Not sure how it can come across as I am all right Jack when I say in the absence of data I will stay with the safer option that is known.

I do check the facts ,always.

Unfortunately there is printed and written facts you could pluck out the air to justify both positions.

You feel you have enough Information to make your choice,that's fine.

I am not ripping into you ,or anyone else who chooses to vote how they vote.

This is NOT the case if anyone dares to vote no they get torn into with venom and generally looked at by the no voters as if they have some sort of mental illness.

It's crazy, to go throw all this devisive hatred again no thanks.

Inaction is a choice.

Choosing to do nothing because it feels "safe" is still choosing.

Theres a reason not a single other country in the world hands their resources to someone else to manage. Westminster know that the Scottish vote is so small it doeant matter, Scotland cant change whos in power so they're free to take the piss as they do and spend your children's money on themselves. A Scottish government would be answerable to the Scottish people, like nearly every other nation on earth and would be able to act exclusively in Scotlands interests.

Thats what its all about.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *yron69Man
over a year ago

Fareham

Och ie the knew..

What does this mean?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

Not sure how it can come across as I am all right Jack when I say in the absence of data I will stay with the safer option that is known.

I do check the facts ,always.

Unfortunately there is printed and written facts you could pluck out the air to justify both positions.

You feel you have enough Information to make your choice,that's fine.

I am not ripping into you ,or anyone else who chooses to vote how they vote.

This is NOT the case if anyone dares to vote no they get torn into with venom and generally looked at by the no voters as if they have some sort of mental illness.

It's crazy, to go throw all this devisive hatred again no thanks.

Inaction is a choice.

Choosing to do nothing because it feels "safe" is still choosing.

Thats what its all about.

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *heBirminghamWeekendMan
over a year ago

here

" A Scottish government would be answerable to the Scottish people, like nearly every other nation on earth and would be able to act exclusively in Scotlands interests.

Thats what its all about."

Big building at the bottom of the Royal Mile!

Making a complete hash of the country - education, health, transport

They run the show …. They are answerable to the Scottish people !

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Och ie the knew..

What does this mean?"

“Och aye the noo!”

This is one of those Scottish phrases that can be heard in countless parodies aimed at poking fun at the Scots' dialect and accent. Its direct English translation is “Oh yes, just now”.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

Its very easy, there's a built in system specifically designed to remove govermnets, its called a general election and they happen at regular intervals. As soon as enough people want to be governed by someone else then the SNP won't be in power. Its the simplest form of democracy there is and it cant be gamed or cheated.

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" A Scottish government would be answerable to the Scottish people, like nearly every other nation on earth and would be able to act exclusively in Scotlands interests.

Thats what its all about.

Big building at the bottom of the Royal Mile!

Making a complete hash of the country - education, health, transport

They run the show …. They are answerable to the Scottish people !

Most sensible post this evening

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved. "

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

" A Scottish government would be answerable to the Scottish people, like nearly every other nation on earth and would be able to act exclusively in Scotlands interests.

Thats what its all about.

Big building at the bottom of the Royal Mile!

Making a complete hash of the country - education, health, transport

They run the show …. They are answerable to the Scottish people !

Happy to hear some examples. If its that bad prove it.

Things can definitely be better, nobody's arguing that, but why Rob yourself of the chance to try and fix them?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally."

It can bring a government down tho

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

It can bring a government down tho "

It literally can't. It can only change the leadership.

A general election is the only way to change a government at Westminster or holyrood.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

Not sure how it can come across as I am all right Jack when I say in the absence of data I will stay with the safer option that is known.

I do check the facts ,always.

Unfortunately there is printed and written facts you could pluck out the air to justify both positions.

You feel you have enough Information to make your choice,that's fine.

I am not ripping into you ,or anyone else who chooses to vote how they vote.

This is NOT the case if anyone dares to vote no they get torn into with venom and generally looked at by the no voters as if they have some sort of mental illness.

It's crazy, to go throw all this devisive hatred again no thanks.

Inaction is a choice.

Choosing to do nothing because it feels "safe" is still choosing.

Thats what its all about.

"
I get the sovereignty argument. Would you be okay to accept independence even if it meant higher taxes and lower spending ?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

It can bring a government down tho

It literally can't. It can only change the leadership.

A general election is the only way to change a government at Westminster or holyrood.

It can force a general election

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

Not sure how it can come across as I am all right Jack when I say in the absence of data I will stay with the safer option that is known.

I do check the facts ,always.

Unfortunately there is printed and written facts you could pluck out the air to justify both positions.

You feel you have enough Information to make your choice,that's fine.

I am not ripping into you ,or anyone else who chooses to vote how they vote.

This is NOT the case if anyone dares to vote no they get torn into with venom and generally looked at by the no voters as if they have some sort of mental illness.

It's crazy, to go throw all this devisive hatred again no thanks.

Inaction is a choice.

Choosing to do nothing because it feels "safe" is still choosing.

Thats what its all about.

I get the sovereignty argument. Would you be okay to accept independence even if it meant higher taxes and lower spending ? "

Yes they would as independence is all that matters

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

It can bring a government down tho

It literally can't. It can only change the leadership.

A general election is the only way to change a government at Westminster or holyrood.

It can force a general election "

Again, it categorically can't. It can only change leadership within a party. The government can call for a general election at any time they want like Theresa May did, but a confidence vote cant change the government under any circumstances.

I dont say this to be offensive, i don't want to be rude at all, but this is elementary stuff. I cant recommend enough that you do a bit of reading on these things. Learning is never ever a bad thing and it feels like there's some pieces in how things work that youre maybe not 100% clear on.

It feels like you're going to take that as me being patronising, but I promise you it isn't meant thay way. Its advice and youre free to take it or leave it, but no bad can come from understand how this stuff works.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

Stay united ,elect better officials.

This is what anyone who wants to be independent wants, but can't currently do.

If this is genuinely what you also want then voting No guarantees the exact opposite.

I disagree buddy,

The United Kingdom needs better public servants or are you seriously suggesting the snp have provided a great service since they have been in power?

They have had just as many scandals as the other showers of shite

I have a simple wish list, live well,live in peace and bother no one.

A party that has common sense and not self serving.

I have yet to see it.

Wanting to be independent isn't a vote for the SNP.

You want to live well and so does everyone, but because of callous tory polices forced on Scotland by a party it hasn't voted for in over half a century, many aren't so lucky.

Maybe you're happy with the status quo and thats fine, good for you, but using your power to strive for better for those less fortunate than yourself seems to be a no brainer for me.

I need to answer this one.

You haven't understood or I haven't put across the point well enough.

It's not a case of " fuck you,I am alright" , if you actually knew me you'd know I'm not like that.

It does come across as very "im alright jack". There are food banks all over the country, why not take a positive step to help solve the issue?

Not sure how it can come across as I am all right Jack when I say in the absence of data I will stay with the safer option that is known.

I do check the facts ,always.

Unfortunately there is printed and written facts you could pluck out the air to justify both positions.

You feel you have enough Information to make your choice,that's fine.

I am not ripping into you ,or anyone else who chooses to vote how they vote.

This is NOT the case if anyone dares to vote no they get torn into with venom and generally looked at by the no voters as if they have some sort of mental illness.

It's crazy, to go throw all this devisive hatred again no thanks.

Inaction is a choice.

Choosing to do nothing because it feels "safe" is still choosing.

Thats what its all about.

I get the sovereignty argument. Would you be okay to accept independence even if it meant higher taxes and lower spending ?

Yes they would as independence is all that matters "

A fair Scotland that works for everyone is "all that matters". We don't have that at the moment and we achieve that through independence.

Theres no real basis to assume that there would be higher tax and lower spending. The abolition of the barnett formula puts Scotland in a better position financially than it currently is, but again its all down which government Scotland chooses for themselves how those factors would actually play out.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

It can bring a government down tho

It literally can't. It can only change the leadership.

A general election is the only way to change a government at Westminster or holyrood.

It can force a general election

Wow listen to you I bow to your intelligence

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

It can bring a government down tho

It literally can't. It can only change the leadership.

A general election is the only way to change a government at Westminster or holyrood.

It can force a general election

Wow listen to you I bow to your intelligence

I dont pretend I'm any more or less intelligent than anyone else, but getting really basic things like that wrong again and again suggest you aren't as armed with the facts as you could be.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

It can bring a government down tho

It literally can't. It can only change the leadership.

A general election is the only way to change a government at Westminster or holyrood.

It can force a general election

Wow listen to you I bow to your intelligence

I dont pretend I'm any more or less intelligent than anyone else, but getting really basic things like that wrong again and again suggest you aren't as armed with the facts as you could be.

Wow

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *tarbrand5005Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

And we all know how difficult it is to remove governments

It is ok to say NO plenty did the first time and I can guarantee plenty more will the next time

The SNP cannot be trusted with this they have divided our country so much

At the moment the people who make decisions on Scotlands behalf are for the most part based in Westminster, who historically dont get voted for by Scotland because we are so underrepresented.

Having our own parliament in charge of our own decisions let's Scotland decide who's best to make those decision. That is literally as simple as it gets.

Choosing not be because "SNP Bad" seems like you genuinely don't understand the systems involved.

Thanks for educating me on general elections and voting

If you know how it works then why ask the question?

You knew what I meant ie sturgeon last year with vote of no confidence and boris this year, it's difficult to remove when in power and 5 years is a long time its like a generaton in SNP minds

Don't try and belittle me

I genuinely didn't.

A vote of no confidence doesn't remove a government, its only the actual leader it effects, thats why its only the party that vote internally.

It can bring a government down tho

It literally can't. It can only change the leadership.

A general election is the only way to change a government at Westminster or holyrood.

It can force a general election

Wow listen to you I bow to your intelligence

I dont pretend I'm any more or less intelligent than anyone else, but getting really basic things like that wrong again and again suggest you aren't as armed with the facts as you could be.

Your just an anti English hating bigot, typical SNP supporter

The SNP the party of who have destroyed Scotland

You crave independence for the wrong reasons"

Not anti-english at all. Ill happily let you point to a single anti-english thing ive said here or a anywhere else? Im opposed to Westminster rule, but ive nothing against anyone based on where they were born.

I want independence so the right decisions for Scotland can be made in Scotland.

I wonder what the "right" reasons are in your opinion?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *erlins5Man
over a year ago

South Fife

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it."

And that is exactly why we need to leave this "union of equals"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *utcock61Man
over a year ago

glasgow

She is a hypoctrite that does not respect the first referendum voters to remain.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If Scotland did get independence would membership to the EU be guaranteed? What would we bring to the table. It won’t be oil because wee Jimmy Krankie has said that she wants the oils fields shut down. Scotland could be a country like Albania and shut off in the wilderness. The border would be a major headache for the EU and the only way that she would get independence would be a promise that membership would be granted.

We can’t have referendum after referendum until the SNP get what they want. 2014 was a once in a lifetime vote

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sturgeon is a power hunger anti English little witch. It was embarrassing watching her daily Covid updates on TV that went on long after the UK updates. She is a leader and leaders delegate but not her she had to get screen time. Questions that need answered before a vote are

What currency will we have

What military will we have

Border controls

NHS

All questions that couldn’t be answered in 2014 and still can’t be answered. Her manifesto is we will be better off independent with nothing to back it up. Do if I’m going to be better off in an independent Scotland will I be paying lower tax and NI? Will petrol prices be lower? Will my weekly shopping bill be lower? Am I going to be paid more? Is waiting time for health care going to be better?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *lder funCouple
over a year ago

tottenham

Who is going to pay for the benefits,dole money and health care,

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Have heard she is a rug muncher as well"
a secret french lover,, so your correct..

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No, she has proposed a date but needs agreement from the UK government to hold the referendum.

Boris has already said he won't agree to it.

Fingers crossed she doesnt i for one am sick of hearing about referendums, the people voted in 2014, no then no now"

This all day long

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Am i right in thinking that after the referendum in 2014?, the snp were re-elected 2021.

The snp sre a party for indepenence, so are they taking the re-election as an indication Scotland want another referendum?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *urlyloverMan
over a year ago

n Ireland

United we stand,divided we fall.

Simple.Surely we are not stupid.Are we?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"United we stand,divided we fall.

Simple.Surely we are not stupid.Are we?

I thought Ireland was already divided.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If it goes to a referendum again I hope like before she gets told no

I'm suck of worrying what will happen to family if she get her way just so she can go down in the history books as someone who fucked the county up

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately