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Why do people have to die......

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Over a book?

Crazy isn't in it this world or should I say the people in in worry me somtimes

(for those who don't follow the news some copies if the Koran were burned allegedly at a US base in afganistan

And now there are riots etc

Crazy isn't in it xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

tbh soapy they dont. those in power (either secular or religious) use religion and faith as levers to motivate the people so that they can maintain their grip on power.

nothing in the gospels (the bit about Jesus) says you should kill people. those bits are the old testement an the later books confirmed by the council of Nicea...

Same, historically for islam. their prophet lived quite happily with jews for many years, it was when the imams got power that the out look begins to change.

The truth is that no one, not the Russians, the British Empire, the sassinids, or even Alexander the great has ever realy conquered Afganistan, the only people to come close were the mongols and their method of conquest was total genocide , a depopulation of stupendous proportions

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"tbh soapy they dont. those in power (either secular or religious) use religion and faith as levers to motivate the people so that they can maintain their grip on power.

nothing in the gospels (the bit about Jesus) says you should kill people. those bits are the old testement an the later books confirmed by the council of Nicea...

Same, historically for isla

m. their prophet lived quite happily with jews for many years, it was when the imams got power that the out look begins to change.

The truth is that no one, not the Russians, the British Empire, the sassinids, or even Alexander the great has ever realy conquered Afganistan, the only people to come close were the mongols and their method of conquest was total genocide

, a depopulation of stupendous proportions"

Good post and I totally understand where you are coming from

Believe it or not and I've said it before many times

I was accepted when I was younger to train for the ministry

I started to ask questions no one could answer and started to question my faith

Slowly realising that in my eyes anyway it was and always had been just a form of control

I still fail to understand the mentality of the extremist views and always will

As much as I fail to understand personally the need for religion in this day and age at all

I fully respect anyone's beliefs and accept that my point of view and opinion is just that mine

I mean absolutely no disrespect to anyone's belief in this post

I'm simply laying out my view xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a Christian who had two logstanding relationships with 2 Buddhist women, has friends of many faiths and principles... I hold with religion... But NOT with extremists.

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

Religion is like a club, people in general need to belong to something... To some its a car club, to others it may be the Golf club! To my parents it was the Salvation Army. Yes they did good stuff, but they would have done that anyway.

I had a guy come round the door one Sunday. Angilcal Church Minister.. He prattled on for a few minutes when I stopped him. He had just told me a story about how he was trying to sell a washing machine and I am sure he was going to make a religous point!

I stopped him mid flow and said I would buy it but I had no money till I got paid in three weeks, but I am moving in two.. I told him where we were moving to and asked if I could pick up the machine on Monday and pay in three weeks...

He said no as I suspected he would. I then said "You know where I will be and you know where I am now. I have told you I will pay you, but you have no faith that I will... But you base your whole life on someone who cannot be proved to exist, who you can't call, write to or visit. You make sacrifices in his name and even visit the church twice on a Sunday in case he can hear you... But you won't have faith that I will give you £30?

Hmmmm.... Risk a whole lifetime or £30!

Yes, I know... Before the person I expect comes and says it! Each to their own. It's their choice and any other meaningless jibes that can be thought of!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Yankie squaddies didnt die because of a book , it was only an excuse to whip up the croud , it was a bonus to the players that they actually got a kill , getting the croud into a frenzy is a tactic the afghans use , the irish used it when i was there , at the end of the day , as every squaddie will tell you , shit happens mate

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham

Not excusing the deaths, but the commanders who allowed this to happen have responsibility too. They know the reverence with which the koran is viewed. They shouldn't have allowed the copies to have been incinerated.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

you cant keep your eye on everrything that goes on , you would be ammased at the things that happened when an officer said to get rid of something , squaddie on the ground doesnt really give a shit about what he has to get rid of , so as soon as the officers back is turned he will take the easy route and just shit can the lot , its the way it is

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By *emima_puddlefuckCouple
over a year ago

hexham


"you cant keep your eye on everrything that goes on , you would be ammased at the things that happened when an officer said to get rid of something , squaddie on the ground doesnt really give a shit about what he has to get rid of , so as soon as the officers back is turned he will take the easy route and just shit can the lot , its the way it is "

Fair point, but thats a failure of training, i remember my grandad telling me about their training in India before they left for Burma(he was in the chindits)They were told if they touched a monkey or cow they would be up on a charge. As a Geordie lad he didnt understand the finer points of hinduism, he did understand what the punishment would be though.

He also used to piss himself telling the story of when the CO came out to inspect them and a monkey came down and shit on his head

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/02/12 00:25:42]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Yankie squaddies didnt die because of a book , it was only an excuse to whip up the croud , it was a bonus to the players that they actually got a kill , getting the croud into a frenzy is a tactic the afghans use , the irish used it when i was there , at the end of the day , as every squaddie will tell you , shit happens mate"

When I went through Afghanistan on the so-called 'Hippy Trail' in 1979, there were Moslems, Jews and Christians living in harmony in Kabul, and the people generally were very friendly and hospitable.It was Soviet and American interference in Afghanistan that caused the awful state of affairs which exists there now and there couldn't have been any interference if unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The interferance in Afghan internal affairs didnt start with the Soviet invasion nor with the CIA arming the locals , it steaches back further , beyond even the British empire invading Afghanastan and occupying Kabul , unfortunatly for Afghanastan it just happens to be in the way of the big game . Unthinking Killing machines ? , lol , you have obviously never done time in the army , quite the funnyest discription i have come accross in a while

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon


"The Yankie squaddies didnt die because of a book , it was only an excuse to whip up the croud , it was a bonus to the players that they actually got a kill , getting the croud into a frenzy is a tactic the afghans use , the irish used it when i was there , at the end of the day , as every squaddie will tell you , shit happens mate

When I went through Afghanistan on the so-called 'Hippy Trail' in 1979, there were Moslems, Jews and Christians living in harmony in Kabul, and the people generally were very friendly and hospitable.It was Soviet and American interference in Afghanistan that caused the awful state of affairs which exists there now and there couldn't have been any interference if unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines."

Some people talk a load of shit!

I serve my country, and I am neither indoctrinated or a killing machine!

The freedom of speech you enjoy was paid for with the blood of many sons (and daughters) who were sentient beings, not some sort of programmed robot!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

fighting over religion is like fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

have never understood it

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines."

that is a staggeringly naive and sweeping generalisation..

a similar one would be to assume anyone who went on the 'hippy trail' was a heroin user or smuggler..

there are bad apples in all walks of life in every profession, the vast majority who have served are certainly not unthinking and also not 'killing machines'...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Yankie squaddies didnt die because of a book , it was only an excuse to whip up the croud , it was a bonus to the players that they actually got a kill , getting the croud into a frenzy is a tactic the afghans use , the irish used it when i was there , at the end of the day , as every squaddie will tell you , shit happens mate

When I went through Afghanistan on the so-called 'Hippy Trail' in 1979, there were Moslems, Jews and Christians living in harmony in Kabul, and the people generally were very friendly and hospitable.It was Soviet and American interference in Afghanistan that caused the awful state of affairs which exists there now and there couldn't have been any interference if unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

Some people talk a load of shit!

I serve my country, and I am neither indoctrinated or a killing machine!

The freedom of speech you enjoy was paid for with the blood of many sons (and daughters) who were sentient beings, not some sort of programmed robot!"

Couldnt have put it better

What you have to remember is that these "killing machines" are also the people that are there to defend the helpless from their own people and to put food into the mouths of the starving when their own governments would rather buy bullets than grain.

My husand served this country and i sleep better knowing there are more of his kind around to carry on doing their duty

Religion is the biggest cause of killing people in whoevers name the world over and the people in power will play on this, People being killed and injured over this book which is meant to be about tolerance and peace disgusts me

Pull all the troops out and see the bloodbath that happens afterwards I'm sure all the families of people serving will be glad to have the son's and daughters home and safe

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By *un_JuiceCouple
over a year ago

Nr Chester

I'd recommend anyone watch the documentary Zeitgeist. It's an alternative view on Christianity and other religions. You don't obviously have to take it as the 'truth' but it will certainly leave you with a different perspective on things and perhaps open your eyes a little to the control people are allowing themselves to be ruled by.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The interferance in Afghan internal affairs didnt start with the Soviet invasion nor with the CIA arming the locals , it steaches back further , beyond even the British empire invading Afghanastan and occupying Kabul , unfortunatly for Afghanastan it just happens to be in the way of the big game . Unthinking Killing machines ? , lol , you have obviously never done time in the army , quite the funnyest discription i have come accross in a while "

Yes I am aware of The Great Game and Great Game players such as 'Bokhara Burnes" who died, along with 18000 other subjects of the British Empire as a result of the stupidity of his British political and military masters. And I repeat, I was in Afghanistan in 1979 seeing things through my own eyes which makes my observations rather more accurate than those of paid soldiers which are largely the result of their indoctrination. And, as I said, Moslems (who were largely of the tolerant Hanafi sect in those days), Christians and Jews lived in harmony in Kabul, and I, in common with most other travellers, found the people generally friendly and hospitable.

No, I haven't 'done time' as you put it, in the British Army, though I have come across British soldiers frequently. The last time I did so was in the Everest region of Nepal where I work most winters as a trek leader when I took part in a rescue operation of five soldiers who had come to grief on a small (by Himalayan standards) mountain as a result of making spectacularly stupid mistakes like not acclimatising properly, not bringing reliable maps, and attempting to climb blue ice.

And on the theme of the stupidity of British soldiers,how long did it take the British Army to work out that the Taliban fighters could so easily tell where their enemies had been from the footprints of their boots in the sand, because people in rural Afghanistan don't wear boots but either go barefoot or wear sandals? Der!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Afghanastan is getting the short end of the stick at the moment , but there are very few countrys in the world that havent had to suffer the averistic influences of another country , Scotland being a good case , for ever having the baleful eye of england accross the border watching and waiting to meddle , then there are countrys that have really got the taste to meddle in other countrys , England being a good example , plundering the wealth of half the countrys in the world in the name of empire . Its just the nature of the beast .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Yankie squaddies didnt die because of a book , it was only an excuse to whip up the croud , it was a bonus to the players that they actually got a kill , getting the croud into a frenzy is a tactic the afghans use , the irish used it when i was there , at the end of the day , as every squaddie will tell you , shit happens mate

When I went through Afghanistan on the so-called 'Hippy Trail' in 1979, there were Moslems, Jews and Christians living in harmony in Kabul, and the people generally were very friendly and hospitable.It was Soviet and American interference in Afghanistan that caused the awful state of affairs which exists there now and there couldn't have been any interference if unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

Some people talk a load of shit!

I serve my country, and I am neither indoctrinated or a killing machine!

The freedom of speech you enjoy was paid for with the blood of many sons (and daughters) who were sentient beings, not some sort of programmed robot!

Couldnt have put it better

What you have to remember is that these "killing machines" are also the people that are there to defend the helpless from their own people and to put food into the mouths of the starving when their own governments would rather buy bullets than grain.

My husand served this country and i sleep better knowing there are more of his kind around to carry on doing their duty

Religion is the biggest cause of killing people in whoevers name the world over and the people in power will play on this, People being killed and injured over this book which is meant to be about tolerance and peace disgusts me

Pull all the troops out and see the bloodbath that happens afterwards I'm sure all the families of people serving will be glad to have the son's and daughters home and safe "

You don't serve your country, and I am not interested in listening to the results of brainwashing.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Religion is the root of all evil.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Religion is the root of all evil."

Controversial but agreed xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Yankie squaddies didnt die because of a book , it was only an excuse to whip up the croud , it was a bonus to the players that they actually got a kill , getting the croud into a frenzy is a tactic the afghans use , the irish used it when i was there , at the end of the day , as every squaddie will tell you , shit happens mate

When I went through Afghanistan on the so-called 'Hippy Trail' in 1979, there were Moslems, Jews and Christians living in harmony in Kabul, and the people generally were very friendly and hospitable.It was Soviet and American interference in Afghanistan that caused the awful state of affairs which exists there now and there couldn't have been any interference if unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

Some people talk a load of shit!

I serve my country, and I am neither indoctrinated or a killing machine!

The freedom of speech you enjoy was paid for with the blood of many sons (and daughters) who were sentient beings, not some sort of programmed robot!

Couldnt have put it better

What you have to remember is that these "killing machines" are also the people that are there to defend the helpless from their own people and to put food into the mouths of the starving when their own governments would rather buy bullets than grain.

My husand served this country and i sleep better knowing there are more of his kind around to carry on doing their duty

Religion is the biggest cause of killing people in whoevers name the world over and the people in power will play on this, People being killed and injured over this book which is meant to be about tolerance and peace disgusts me

Pull all the troops out and see the bloodbath that happens afterwards I'm sure all the families of people serving will be glad to have the son's and daughters home and safe "

Have you been to Afghanistan? Of course not. Your views are entirely based on what you have read in the newspapers or seen on television-in other words the product of brainwashing.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross


"Afghanastan is getting the short end of the stick at the moment , but there are very few countrys in the world that havent had to suffer the averistic influences of another country , Scotland being a good case , for ever having the baleful eye of england accross the border watching and waiting to meddle , then there are countrys that have really got the taste to meddle in other countrys , England being a good example , plundering the wealth of half the countrys in the world in the name of empire . Its just the nature of the beast ."

Sour grapes for dinner again?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

People don't die because of a book, they die because of the idiots who interpret what's written in books. Petty minded people who need to control and use religion and ignorance to feel powerful

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Have i been to afghanistan ? yes and now my lad who followed me into the army is now serving out there , question is , have you been to afghanistan ? i suspet not , could be you are talking on a subject where you have little knowladge at best ,

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

that is a staggeringly naive and sweeping generalisation..

a similar one would be to assume anyone who went on the 'hippy trail' was a heroin user or smuggler..

there are bad apples in all walks of life in every profession, the vast majority who have served are certainly not unthinking and also not 'killing machines'..."

Naive? Ten to one you have never been to Afghanistan, seen the results of the Sri Lankese Army operations against the Tamil Tigers,or witnessed a battle between the Peruvian Army and the Sendero Luminoso.......Forgive me whilst I simultaneously laugh and cry at yet another example of arrogance born of ignorance.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

never been to sri lanka so cant comment on it really , never been to peru either , you seem to collect alot of strange holiday destinations

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Over a book?

Crazy isn't in it this world or should I say the people in in worry me somtimes

(for those who don't follow the news some copies if the Koran were burned allegedly at a US base in afganistan

And now there are riots etc

Crazy isn't in it xx "

oh dont get me started on this

Its ok for them to burn our poppys, something that held in respect for real people who really died but you burn a stupid book and all hell breaks loose

im off now before i start ranting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I liked the comment about touching a monkey lol....let alone spanking it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Have i been to afghanistan ? yes and now my lad who followed me into the army is now serving out there , question is , have you been to afghanistan ? i suspet not , could be you are talking on a subject where you have little knowladge at best , "

I didn't ask you whether you had been to Afghanistan. I assumed you had.

I have already made it clear that I have been to Afghanistan. I have also been to many other places in that region too, including Pakistan and what used to be called Chinese Turkestan, which I reached by crossing the Khunjerab Pass just beyond the Pakistani town of Sust. In fact I have travelled extensively, for long periods of time on every continent in the world except Australasia and Antarctica, as it implies in my profile.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

that is a staggeringly naive and sweeping generalisation..

a similar one would be to assume anyone who went on the 'hippy trail' was a heroin user or smuggler..

there are bad apples in all walks of life in every profession, the vast majority who have served are certainly not unthinking and also not 'killing machines'...

Naive? Ten to one you have never been to Afghanistan, seen the results of the Sri Lankese Army operations against the Tamil Tigers,or witnessed a battle between the Peruvian Army and the Sendero Luminoso.......Forgive me whilst I simultaneously laugh and cry at yet another example of arrogance born of ignorance."

not really sure you can talk about arrogance given your 'know it all' perspective...

please dont assume i am a war monger either, using the green arrow may give an idea of my stance on several issues you deem to lecture on...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have a lot of friends who are currently serving in Afghanistan and they are clearly told that they must respect the Afghan people, their religion and do nothing which could be deemed to offend them. If the Americans did burn copies of the Koran, then that was an act which would enflame the locals. However, the question I asked of one of my friends was, if it is so offensive to burn this holy book, isn't it just as offensive to write all over it? I know two wrongs don't make a right, but I would think that for something that is held up as being so holy, precious and mustn't be defaced or despoiled, the very people who are up in arms at the burning, are in some cases, in league with the very people who wrote on them, or at the very least, have conveniently disregarded that fact.

Just my thoughts as someone who considers that all religions have a place in this world and indeed at the heart of their teachings, they all give out the same message.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well you are more travelled than me , just been to the usual squaddie tour destinations , Eire a couple of times , Bosnia a couple of times , The first gulf war ( couldnt get a pint for love nor money there )and finaly finneshed off with an all expensise paid tour to Afghanistan , the lasting impression of the place is the sand/dust , got everywhere , the smell and the flies, billions of them , sop hate flies after that place

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/02/12 12:11:02]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've often thought that the world would be a better place if there was no religion.

But then the violent criminals would just find another excuse....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"never been to sri lanka so cant comment on it really , never been to peru either , you seem to collect alot of strange holiday destinations"

I would call myself a traveller, not a holiday maker. I travel for several months on end because I like to see what other parts of the world are like and how people who live there live. And the more I travel, the less inclined I am to believe anything I see or read on the television or in the newspapers-I would attach no more importance to what I see on the television here concerning China, for example, than I would to what I read about Britain in Chinese newspapers.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"well you are more travelled than me , just been to the usual squaddie tour destinations , Eire a couple of times , Bosnia a couple of times , The first gulf war ( couldnt get a pint for love nor money there )and finaly finneshed off with an all expensise paid tour to Afghanistan , the lasting impression of the place is the sand/dust , got everywhere , the smell and the flies, billions of them , sop hate flies after that place"

Well at least you can get meat there, albeit stringy mutton. In most of India it's just endless vegetarian dishes which all taste the same and have you running for the nearest hole in the ground within minutes.

When I was last in Pakistan, foreigners could get beer in Islamabad, but we had to go to the police station first and fill out a form. Then we were escorted to a hotel, taken several flights of stairs up and into a locked room. Here, the policeman opened a locked cupboard and brought out a very dusty bottle of beer. Then he went out of the room and locked it.

When I crossed the border into China, I saw beer for sale at the border kiosk and quickly learnt my first Chinese which was "pidju, shey shey" (I don't know if that's how to write it) but it means 'beer-thankyou". I don't think I have ever appreciated the taste of beer so much as I did then.

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon


"

unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

that is a staggeringly naive and sweeping generalisation..

a similar one would be to assume anyone who went on the 'hippy trail' was a heroin user or smuggler..

there are bad apples in all walks of life in every profession, the vast majority who have served are certainly not unthinking and also not 'killing machines'...

Naive? Ten to one you have never been to Afghanistan, seen the results of the Sri Lankese Army operations against the Tamil Tigers,or witnessed a battle between the Peruvian Army and the Sendero Luminoso.......Forgive me whilst I simultaneously laugh and cry at yet another example of arrogance born of ignorance."

And you use these experiences to bad-mouth the British Army?

As you said... "Forgive me whilst I simultaneously laugh and cry at yet another example of arrogance born of ignorance".

Don't tar all soldiers with the same brush, whilst living under the umbrella of the protection their sacrifice allows you.

I've trained soldiers, and very few needed to be told how to care about the civilians they would meet in various parts of the world, "hearts and minds" isnt some throwaway comment, for many British soldiers its a natural part of what they do.

Your comments are offensive and ill-informed, and are not even based on experience of seeing British soldiers in action.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religion is the root of all evil.

Controversial but agreed xx"

Utter Rot.....MONEY (or the love of it) IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

To say that wars are fought over religion is naive to say the least, wars are fought because other countries have the resources you want. Religion is the excuse.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

in the first gulf war we were so desperate for alcohol we tried brewing it in black plastic bags with marmit tattie peelings and suger , tied it up in a bag with water and left to brew on the back decks of the armour , with the predictable desastorur results , lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

that is a staggeringly naive and sweeping generalisation..

a similar one would be to assume anyone who went on the 'hippy trail' was a heroin user or smuggler..

there are bad apples in all walks of life in every profession, the vast majority who have served are certainly not unthinking and also not 'killing machines'...

Naive? Ten to one you have never been to Afghanistan, seen the results of the Sri Lankese Army operations against the Tamil Tigers,or witnessed a battle between the Peruvian Army and the Sendero Luminoso.......Forgive me whilst I simultaneously laugh and cry at yet another example of arrogance born of ignorance.

not really sure you can talk about arrogance given your 'know it all' perspective...

please dont assume i am a war monger either, using the green arrow may give an idea of my stance on several issues you deem to lecture on...

"

I do not claim to be omniscient. Far from it in fact. Like Socrates and Alfred the Great I realise that I have only picked up a few twigs of knowledge in an endless forest of what there is to know. But at the same time, I do not have any time for English false modesty. I have seen and experienced things on my travels which most people haven't-including for example what happened at Tianamen Square and as a consequence have learnt a great deal more about what goes on in the world than people whose main sources of information are the television and newspapers.

As for lecturing, well, as I am a part time lecturer, it is hardly surprising........

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland


"Religion is the root of all evil.

Controversial but agreed xx

Utter Rot.....MONEY (or the love of it) IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

To say that wars are fought over religion is naive to say the least, wars are fought because other countries have the resources you want. Religion is the excuse.

Religion doesnt cause wars? now YOU are talking utter rot

"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"tbh soapy they dont. those in power (either secular or religious) use religion and faith as levers to motivate the people so that they can maintain their grip on power.

nothing in the gospels (the bit about Jesus) says you should kill people. those bits are the old testement an the later books confirmed by the council of Nicea...

Same, historically for islam. their prophet lived quite happily with jews for many years, it was when the imams got power that the out look begins to change.

The truth is that no one, not the Russians, the British Empire, the sassinids, or even Alexander the great has ever realy conquered Afganistan, the only people to come close were the mongols and their method of conquest was total genocide , a depopulation of stupendous proportions"

in Islaam the imam weilds no power. The imam is the most respected of the prayer group and steps slightly forward of the other participants to guide the prayer.

Todays Imams are not.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The question was why do people have to die over a book and it has caused a great deal of debate. However, no one has answered my question as to why it is okay for Islamics to deface said book, but for someone else to burn it? Not that that wasn't a stupid course of action to be taken, as it has now put the lives of other servicemen and women at risk as a direct result.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The question was why do people have to die over a book and it has caused a great deal of debate. However, no one has answered my question as to why it is okay for Islamics to deface said book, but for someone else to burn it? Not that that wasn't a stupid course of action to be taken, as it has now put the lives of other servicemen and women at risk as a direct result."

Oops that should have read "but not for someone else to burn it".

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By *edhotminxWoman
over a year ago

Turn left at the Singing Ringing Tree

I don't do religion. Each to their own and if that's what they believe, then why can't everyone just respect that each religion has their own 'books' telling an interesting story of way back when.

Unfortunately nowadays everyone wants to argue their point, their god or an insult of such.

Behind most of the wars started, there has been some sort of religious ideal. One section of humanity who think they are better than another.

The one thing that all religions teach is the responsibility for 'your neighbour'. One day that radical thought might just get through.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't do religion. "

even if I anagram it?

leg r goin

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By *edhotminxWoman
over a year ago

Turn left at the Singing Ringing Tree

oh I might do it then, but where's the leg going?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't do religion.

even if I anagram it?

leg r goin "

Only one g?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The Yankie squaddies didnt die because of a book , it was only an excuse to whip up the croud , it was a bonus to the players that they actually got a kill , getting the croud into a frenzy is a tactic the afghans use , the irish used it when i was there , at the end of the day , as every squaddie will tell you , shit happens mate

When I went through Afghanistan on the so-called 'Hippy Trail' in 1979, there were Moslems, Jews and Christians living in harmony in Kabul, and the people generally were very friendly and hospitable.It was Soviet and American interference in Afghanistan that caused the awful state of affairs which exists there now and there couldn't have been any interference if unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

Some people talk a load of shit!

I serve my country, and I am neither indoctrinated or a killing machine!

The freedom of speech you enjoy was paid for with the blood of many sons (and daughters) who were sentient beings, not some sort of programmed robot!

Couldnt have put it better

What you have to remember is that these "killing machines" are also the people that are there to defend the helpless from their own people and to put food into the mouths of the starving when their own governments would rather buy bullets than grain.

My husand served this country and i sleep better knowing there are more of his kind around to carry on doing their duty

Religion is the biggest cause of killing people in whoevers name the world over and the people in power will play on this, People being killed and injured over this book which is meant to be about tolerance and peace disgusts me

Pull all the troops out and see the bloodbath that happens afterwards I'm sure all the families of people serving will be glad to have the son's and daughters home and safe

Have you been to Afghanistan? Of course not. Your views are entirely based on what you have read in the newspapers or seen on television-in other words the product of brainwashing."

How would you know if i had been out to Afghanistan? as it seems you as a lecturer you know all the answers already please tell ?

No thankfully I havent been to Afghanistan nor would i want to go there until such time as it is safe to do so

But what i do is talk and listen to people such as my husband who has been to such places and also my sister in law and my 2 nephews who are presently on active service in that area so i can make an informed opinion without the need of mainstream media outlets to tell me what to think.

Hopefully i wont get tarred with the "brainwashed" brush as i have my own very well informed opinions

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't do religion.

even if I anagram it?

leg r goin

Only one g?"

shhhh don't mention the g*******

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By *eavy Metal BallzMan
over a year ago

Birmingham


"in the first gulf war we were so desperate for alcohol we tried brewing it in black plastic bags with marmit tattie peelings and suger , tied it up in a bag with water and left to brew on the back decks of the armour , with the predictable desastorur results , lol"

We tried the same on the back of our RR and had the same spectacularly disastrous results

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"

unthinking people didn't join armies and allow themselves to be utterly indoctrinated and turned into killing machines.

that is a staggeringly naive and sweeping generalisation..

a similar one would be to assume anyone who went on the 'hippy trail' was a heroin user or smuggler..

there are bad apples in all walks of life in every profession, the vast majority who have served are certainly not unthinking and also not 'killing machines'...

Naive? Ten to one you have never been to Afghanistan, seen the results of the Sri Lankese Army operations against the Tamil Tigers,or witnessed a battle between the Peruvian Army and the Sendero Luminoso.......Forgive me whilst I simultaneously laugh and cry at yet another example of arrogance born of ignorance.

not really sure you can talk about arrogance given your 'know it all' perspective...

please dont assume i am a war monger either, using the green arrow may give an idea of my stance on several issues you deem to lecture on...

I do not claim to be omniscient. Far from it in fact. Like Socrates and Alfred the Great I realise that I have only picked up a few twigs of knowledge in an endless forest of what there is to know. But at the same time, I do not have any time for English false modesty. I have seen and experienced things on my travels which most people haven't-including for example what happened at Tianamen Square and as a consequence have learnt a great deal more about what goes on in the world than people whose main sources of information are the television and newspapers.

As for lecturing, well, as I am a part time lecturer, it is hardly surprising........

"

you are full of assumptions..

good job your not patronising or condescending..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

oh dont get me started on this

Its ok for them to burn our poppys, something that held in respect for real people who really died but you burn a stupid book and all hell breaks loose

im off now before i start ranting"

'a stupid book'....therein lies the problem.

Part of the morality of the Afghan people is to hold this book in absolute reverence, whether we understand or agree with this fact is completely irrelevant, we should respect their belief, that is part of our moral code.

There are things we maybe willing to kill and die for that other cultures may struggle to understand.

Jem is right, this should never have been allowed to happen. The resulting deaths are so tragic but I'm sure there are Afghans who would see them as justified. What a mess.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

oh dont get me started on this

Its ok for them to burn our poppys, something that held in respect for real people who really died but you burn a stupid book and all hell breaks loose

im off now before i start ranting

'a stupid book'....therein lies the problem.

Part of the morality of the Afghan people is to hold this book in absolute reverence, whether we understand or agree with this fact is completely irrelevant, we should respect their belief, that is part of our moral code.

There are things we maybe willing to kill and die for that other cultures may struggle to understand.

Jem is right, this should never have been allowed to happen. The resulting deaths are so tragic but I'm sure there are Afghans who would see them as justified. What a mess. "

If they, and I assume you mean the Islamic community, hold this book with such reverence, why oh why is it right for them to deface it? That, to my mind, is just as bad as burning it.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Remember not so long ago the schoolgirl who was charged after burning the koran not long after the poppy burning where as far as i am aware no one was charged.

Appeasement? Double standards?

Good old UK no wonder the asylum seekers trek across Europe to get here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religion is the root of all evil.

Controversial but agreed xx

Utter Rot.....MONEY (or the love of it) IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

To say that wars are fought over religion is naive to say the least, wars are fought because other countries have the resources you want. Religion is the excuse.

Religion doesnt cause wars? now YOU are talking utter rot

"

hardly. wars are fought for money and power, religion pays no armies

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"I don't do religion. Each to their own and if that's what they believe, then why can't everyone just respect that each religion has their own 'books' telling an interesting story of way back when.

Unfortunately nowadays everyone wants to argue their point, their god or an insult of such.

Behind most of the wars started, there has been some sort of religious ideal. One section of humanity who think they are better than another.

The one thing that all religions teach is the responsibility for 'your neighbour'. One day that radical thought might just get through. "

no they tell you the way is over religion when in fact its over power and money

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"Religion is the root of all evil.

Controversial but agreed xx

Utter Rot.....MONEY (or the love of it) IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

To say that wars are fought over religion is naive to say the least, wars are fought because other countries have the resources you want. Religion is the excuse.

"

Not complete utter rot though is it?

I can see your point but the people who cause wars over money will and always have used the vehicle of religion to use the religiously brain washed and indoctrinated to do their dirty work for them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Religion is the root of all evil.

Controversial but agreed xx

Utter Rot.....MONEY (or the love of it) IS THE ROOT OF ALL EVIL.

To say that wars are fought over religion is naive to say the least, wars are fought because other countries have the resources you want. Religion is the excuse.

Not complete utter rot though is it?

I can see your point but the people who cause wars over money will and always have used the vehicle of religion to use the religiously brain washed and indoctrinated to do their dirty work for them "

thats a fair point but then your complaint is not aboult religion but about the people who use religion and about a lack of education for the masses to enable them to spot that they are being manipulated.

what i said was rot was the coment that 'religion is evil'. its a nonsence argument because the core of all religions are rules to enable people to live together with the minimum of friction. How can you describe the message of the gospels as evil?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


" How can you describe the message of the gospels as evil?

"

Yes maybe badly worded ill grant you

If you have seen my other post on this thread about me actually being accept to train for the ministry when i was younger

You may have realised that id studied the subject quite a bit

The bible and other religious books are today a shadow of their former selves and have been rewritten over the ages many many times

The originals being classed today as pretty evil

There is evidence of this still although it a watered down form in the old testament

There are many instances of things being done in the name of religion and extremism steams from that

Do you really think that people who commit atrocity's in the name of religion (and im on about the minions not the top dogs)

really believe they are doing so or even dying in the name of money??

Therefore in my book the saying should be money and religion are the root of all evil

This is a personal view and is no way debasing anyones faith just a means of giving my own point of view

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We cant blame anything other than 'human' nature.

War happens to be unfortunately a progression of human kind, much in the way the earth battles itself with its tectonic plates.

Its shaped much of our societies,our technologies.

while its all horrible war/death , an idea to see what life would be like without passion for a cause the film "equilibrium" might serve an idea.Its the Ying and Yang balance I suppose that we see the highlights of our existence, a chaotic destructive yet constructive universe.

Money isnt evil, people have fought for commodities and land before monetary systems appeared.

at the end of it, everything consumes something,somewhere and we see the beauty in 'violent' acts everywhere around us...just not saying we have to like it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


" How can you describe the message of the gospels as evil?

Yes maybe badly worded ill grant you

If you have seen my other post on this thread about me actually being accept to train for the ministry when i was younger

You may have realised that id studied the subject quite a bit

The bible and other religious books are today a shadow of their former selves and have been rewritten over the ages many many times

The originals being classed today as pretty evil

There is evidence of this still although it a watered down form in the old testament

There are many instances of things being done in the name of religion and extremism steams from that

Do you really think that people who commit atrocity's in the name of religion (and im on about the minions not the top dogs)

really believe they are doing so or even dying in the name of money??

Therefore in my book the saying should be money and religion are the root of all evil

This is a personal view and is no way debasing anyones faith just a means of giving my own point of view"

I did see the post soapy, which is why i asked about the gospels as opposed to the whole bible..... I take the point about the minions, but again, they have justifications beyond th purely religious, those who they kill will have their lands and property split between the victors......a much more powerfull motivator than you will go to heaven to a modern person.

Do we think that no evil acts were carried out before the great monotheistic religion? or was god working in the mind of julius ceasar? I dont wish to offend but blaming religion for the worlds ills is not only, imho lazy, but dangeorus too. if we killed all the churches we would still have the ignorant and the powerfull who prey on them, but we would also loose a powerfull force for the moderation of societies baser instincts

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

If the bible is to believed then God is the biggest murderer of all time.

He actualy wiped out an entire planet except for two of this and two of that.

And that other religion that cuts the heads of the infidels or unbelievers.

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By *acreadCouple
over a year ago

central scotland

Sorry bigest mASS Murderer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

sorry but religion and greed causes war! humans will never get on and always fight one another we are all bloody head fucks who need to find a way to all get along.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"

oh dont get me started on this

Its ok for them to burn our poppys, something that held in respect for real people who really died but you burn a stupid book and all hell breaks loose

im off now before i start ranting

'a stupid book'....therein lies the problem.

Part of the morality of the Afghan people is to hold this book in absolute reverence, whether we understand or agree with this fact is completely irrelevant, we should respect their belief, that is part of our moral code.

There are things we maybe willing to kill and die for that other cultures may struggle to understand.

Jem is right, this should never have been allowed to happen. The resulting deaths are so tragic but I'm sure there are Afghans who would see them as justified. What a mess.

If they, and I assume you mean the Islamic community, hold this book with such reverence, why oh why is it right for them to deface it? That, to my mind, is just as bad as burning it."

Understand your point but maybe you should try to see it less in your mind and look at it a bit more in theirs.

If your an Islamic Afghan an invading force has been caught incinerating your holy book.

It's still tragic in my view that people have died as a result.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I say its to provoke the Afghans and other muslims.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Dying in general sucks.

A guy fell dead (probably heart attack) in front of me in Tesco a few days ago.

Generally uncomfortable with the whole idea of death and dying. Must start building my live-forever machine any day now.

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By *amish SMan
over a year ago

Eastleigh

It was just an excuse to attack and kill the the westerners, tomorrow it will be someone else's turn to die. If the forces left Afghanistan they will fight with each other, as what is currently happening in Iraq, Yemen, Somalia, Sudan, Syria, Pakistan, Nigeria. All Islamic states, it's just that the Western world can't accept the way they rule themselves and their application of their law. If they want to stone people and shot them in the head on a football ground let them crack on, its their country not ours.

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By *irty_bhamMan
over a year ago

birmingham


"Over a book?

Crazy isn't in it this world or should I say the people in in worry me somtimes

(for those who don't follow the news some copies if the Koran were burned allegedly at a US base in afganistan

And now there are riots etc

Crazy isn't in it xx "

they haven't died over a book,

they because of beliefs and faith.

those are both irrational.

what's even sadder is that people die from lack of food, clean water and simple medicine.

address those issues and see the difference

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By *adchickCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

The burning of the books was actually accidental.

Said books were in a pile of rubbish waiting to be burnt so that room could be made to rebuild a bazaar.

Luckily a soldier saw said books before most of them were burnt.

Said books that were saved were given back to the Afghan villagers.

Don't believe everything that is reported about Afghanistan.......... the whole truth about day to day happenings is very rarely told to the public for a very good reason.

People can't keep their opinions to themselves and gossip constantly!

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"they haven't died over a book,

they because of beliefs and faith.

those are both irrational.

what's even sadder is that people die from lack of food, clean water and simple medicine.

address those issues and see the difference

"

+1

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

death smiles at us all , all a man can do is smile back

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"fighting over religion is like fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

have never understood it "

Me either, heck of a lot of wars have started over, "my gods better than your god".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"fighting over religion is like fighting over who has the best imaginary friend.

have never understood it

Me either, heck of a lot of wars have started over, "my gods better than your god"."

Even more strange, in that there is only one God. The others are either the son of or prophets in the name of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

havent you ever watched the life of Brian?

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