FabSwingers.com forum: Can nhs be saved?

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Or does it need a total reform from top to bottom, or is it to late as brexit looms? I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just sack the top tier of the pyramid and let the workers do their job with the funds gained as a result.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Or does it need a total reform from top to bottom, or is it to late as brexit looms? I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year."

And yet, if they did, there would be far less money available to it as the Treasury would take a massive hit given how much tobacco products are taxed.

It's like the argument for alternative fuel vehicles.

Governments could have incentivised manufacturers years ago, but they are fully aware of how much of a drop in tax revenue there will be when we stop using petrol and diesel.

The biggest problem with the NHS is how it is managed.

Too many inefficiencies.

And pharmacuticals rip the NHS off too - because they know that they can

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By *hips n FursMan
over a year ago

Huddersfield

"Or does it need a total reform from top to bottom, or is it to late as brexit looms? I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year."

How much would they save a year if people learnt to just eat properly. At least smokers contribute with extra taxes.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Or does it need a total reform from top to bottom, or is it to late as brexit looms? I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year.

And yet, if they did, there would be far less money available to it as the Treasury would take a massive hit given how much tobacco products are taxed.

It's like the argument for alternative fuel vehicles.

Governments could have incentivised manufacturers years ago, but they are fully aware of how much of a drop in tax revenue there will be when we stop using petrol and diesel.

The biggest problem with the NHS is how it is managed.

Too many inefficiencies.

And pharmacuticals rip the NHS off too - because they know that they can"
Big pharma and the manipulation of drugs prices is an issue but I'm heartily sick of people who repeat this mantra about 'too many inefficiencies' when they haven't got a single example they can cite.

The biggest inefficiency in the NHS is the belief of government you can run the NHS on less than our comparators in Europe spend per capita on health care. Second is the bizarre belief that it's somehow efficient to allow the most customer facing parts of the NHS (GP practices, dentistry and optical services) to be run as for profit operations by owner operators whose key desire is to take as much money out of the system as possible...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Get rid of the scroungers like the eithiopian woman whose been using Barnet royal free hodpital as a free b n b for her n her daughter for the last 18 months and get rid of the management which has allowed this to happen

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Get rid of the scroungers like the eithiopian woman whose been using Barnet royal free hodpital as a free b n b for her n her daughter for the last 18 months and get rid of the management which has allowed this to happen

Why can't they kick them out?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Or does it need a total reform from top to bottom, or is it to late as brexit looms? I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year."

Actually that would be financially counter productive because the taxes raised are greater than the cost to the NHS for smoking related illnesses and the pension bill would go through the roof as non-smokers live longer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Introduce a tierd approach of contributions:

Those on beneifits £5 per month

Fit & healthy £10 per month

Smokers obese (non medical) £15

Over 60's free

Simple!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Introduce a tierd approach of contributions:

Those on beneifits £5 per month

Fit & healthy £10 per month

Smokers obese (non medical) £15

Over 60's free

Simple!!"

Like you idea but you've got it the wrong way round with billing!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Introduce a tierd approach of contributions:

Those on beneifits £5 per month

Fit & healthy £10 per month

Smokers obese (non medical) £15

Over 60's free

Simple!!

Like you idea but you've got it the wrong way round with billing!"

No... those that look after themselves shud pay less as they will need less treatment. Over 60s should always get free and those on benefits may genuinely need some help but should still pay somethin

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Introduce a tierd approach of contributions:

Those on beneifits £5 per month

Fit & healthy £10 per month

Smokers obese (non medical) £15

Over 60's free

Simple!!

Like you idea but you've got it the wrong way round with billing!

No... those that look after themselves shud pay less as they will need less treatment. Over 60s should always get free and those on benefits may genuinely need some help but should still pay somethin"

Was thinking more on the lines of fit and healthy paying nothing and the over 60s only being free if they've paid into the tax system by working thru their adult life.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Or does it need a total reform from top to bottom, or is it to late as brexit looms? I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year.

And yet, if they did, there would be far less money available to it as the Treasury would take a massive hit given how much tobacco products are taxed.

It's like the argument for alternative fuel vehicles.

Governments could have incentivised manufacturers years ago, but they are fully aware of how much of a drop in tax revenue there will be when we stop using petrol and diesel.

The biggest problem with the NHS is how it is managed.

Too many inefficiencies.

And pharmacuticals rip the NHS off too - because they know that they canBig pharma and the manipulation of drugs prices is an issue but I'm heartily sick of people who repeat this mantra about 'too many inefficiencies' when they haven't got a single example they can cite.

This! The irony is that cutting funding is actually making the NHS less efficient as surgical lists are cancelled more often due to shortage of staff, appointments sometimes aren't filled due to shortage of admin staff and the hospitals basically just keep getting into more debt.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

Yes but needs a complete overhaul from top to bottom the nhs is a fantastic organisation and the money the government will save once we are out of Europe can be invested in the nhs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Introduce a tierd approach of contributions:

Those on beneifits £5 per month

Fit & healthy £10 per month

Smokers obese (non medical) £15

Over 60's free

Simple!!

Like you idea but you've got it the wrong way round with billing!"

should be means tested for the over 60's, they dip into the service the most! Don't agree with the £5 for people on benefits.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/11/18 10:54:16]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Introduce a tierd approach of contributions:

Those on beneifits £5 per month

Fit & healthy £10 per month

Smokers obese (non medical) £15

Over 60's free

Simple!!"

Soooo my friend eats junk. Doesn't exercise but is the perfect weight for her height. Which bit should she go in? I also have a ex bf who couldn't put on weight no matter what he did, he wasn't healthy.... But hey he wasn't obese right?

I'm fat. I actually go to the gym (omg don't die in shock) I have PCOS which I have opted not to be treated for. I don't go to the Drs. I am actually fit and healthy other than being fat. I have more energy than my slim friend who lives on junk. But hey I cost the NHS millions apparently

And in reply to the OP. It needs a higher management restructure and sourcing medicines and equipment through cheaper methods. 32p paracetamol costs the NHS £2 it's crazy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes.

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

" I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year."

Which probably would go straight back out the door in the shape of increased pension payments as more people live for longer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Don’t care I got health cover up the wazzooo.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your friend is perfect weight for her height then she is not obese so £10 unless she smokes? And you're other friend could be checked a lot quicker and tests done to check tgeres no underlying cause because the nhs would have a lot more money

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"Just sack the top tier of the pyramid and let the workers do their job with the funds gained as a result."

I have a similar train of thought, as there are too many managers and back of house staff. Thin them down then give the money to staff.

Sort out the drug companies, as I am sure the NHS is not getting the best deal from them. £10 an anti sickness tablet, that is given to radiotherapy patients. Surely that is a rip off.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"Introduce a tierd approach of contributions:

Those on beneifits £5 per month

Fit & healthy £10 per month

Smokers obese (non medical) £15

Over 60's free

Simple!!

Like you idea but you've got it the wrong way round with billing!

No... those that look after themselves shud pay less as they will need less treatment. Over 60s should always get free and those on benefits may genuinely need some help but should still pay somethin

Was thinking more on the lines of fit and healthy paying nothing and the over 60s only being free if they've paid into the tax system by working thru their adult life."

The fit & healthy are more inclined to suffer from work related issues, or general health issues like cancer, etc. So they should pay their own way as well.

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By *ervent_fervourMan
over a year ago

Halifax

More money. Only allow locum staff to work via council trusts directly, get rid of meetings mad with no outcomes managers who have no idea/wish to manage effectively. Liberate it from having to have a minister who invariably doesn't have a scooby.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Per person the over 65s use up nearly half of the budget.

Something needs to be looked at here I think.

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By *hrobbermanMan
over a year ago

Lanarkshire

Cannot be saved by Tories. That would be like trying get Jimmy Savile to sort out a school prizegiving.

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By *elvet RopeMan
over a year ago

by the big field

"Just sack the top tier of the pyramid"

Good plan- we'll start with Maybot and the rest of the incompetent buffoons

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No... those that look after themselves shud pay less as they will need less treatment. Over 60s should always get free and those on benefits may genuinely need some help but should still pay somethin"

Very shortsighted there. You could be fit and healthy your entire life, no past medical history and be hit at any age with any serious condition. Healthy lifestyle does not promise you better health (of course it helps) - but saying those that are fit and healthy will need less treatment is a bit silly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know this is a popular mantra amongst some but really those who are not entitled to use the NHS but do are are a tiny proportion of over all expenditure. The vast bulk goes on white people (the bastards) then on women (...) and then on the over 60's (....) who currently consume resources at twice their population frequently and despite all the hype never paid in at a rate that reflects their withdrawal rate (not strictly their fault as the system wasn't set up that way although they were electing the people who set it up).

Mostly though the UK spend a reelection small proportion of its wealth on medical care, were we to spend more many of the 'problems' would vanish.

I believe that smokers generally pay more in tax than they cost in care as they have the decency to die pretty quickly once they get sick.

The government had been making 'efficiency savings' in the NHS for years, so they claim. I find it hard to belive that there much more to save if they are any good although if course along with the efficiency savings there is constant managerial change which makes any meaningful assessment almost impossible. *sighs*

Still, as a country we elected our governments so to some extent we get what we deserve. Idiots it would seem :D

Mike xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes."

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By *alandNitaCouple
over a year ago

Scunthorpe

"Or does it need a total reform from top to bottom, or is it to late as brexit looms? I heard that if smokers quit they could save the nhs over 2billion a year."

Apparently in 2017 the tax revenue from smoking was around £12bn

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By *ischief ManagedCouple
over a year ago

manchester

I am a believer in an extra payments for walk in's. We have one local and a local doctors you can't get into the doctors for at least 2-3 weeks. The walk in is open 8 til 8 everyday. I know personally given fighting chest infections etc.. for a week or so I'm not one for running straight there asap. with out them I couldn't be treated given the waiting time at doctors If these services where increased via extra funding from tax payer people will be treated quicker than via doctors and thus improving patients quicker before there symptoms get worse and a&e is called and longer treatment is needed. I'm all for nhs being supported the best it can be just a thought.

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By *ime for fun guyMan
over a year ago

Wherever you want

Instigate national contracts for suppliers rather than individual trusts all negotiating their own pricing.

Improve the IT infrastructure within the NHS too. Ridiculous that they’re the biggest users of fax machines in the world still.

Treat surgical patients sooner rather than try and manage their conditions medically until their condition is worse and therefore increasing costs and length of stay.

Work on my preventative healthcare sonit is a health service rather than a treatment service.

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By *ap AdgeMan
over a year ago

Wirral

"Just sack the top tier of the pyramid and let the workers do their job with the funds gained as a result."

Too many managers

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By *ime for fun guyMan
over a year ago

Wherever you want

"Instigate national contracts for suppliers rather than individual trusts all negotiating their own pricing.

Improve the IT infrastructure within the NHS too. Ridiculous that they’re the biggest users of fax machines in the world still.

Treat surgical patients sooner rather than try and manage their conditions medically until their condition is worse and therefore increasing costs and length of stay.

Work on making it a preventative health service rather than a treatment service. "

*edited*

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The NHS could be saved at a basic level it the British accepted that excessive socialism is a bad idea...

I've got alot of arguments against the NHS. (I've worked in admin/catering and my mum is important as a nurse with quite a high profile job)

My main problem is misspending and beaurocracy. The people who defend the nhs don't know about any other service to compare it to...

I've lived abroad. Though I believe SOME socialism is necessary. The NHS is a classic case of throwing money at a problem hopeing for it to go away...

The nhs is drained by toxic beaurocracy, incompetent lazy staff in the admin departments, too much admin, greedy chief execs/bad planning and paying pharmacutical companies vast ammounts for medicine that is made for pennies in India.

We also provide healthcare to immigrants who are poor like taxes are charity donations for overseas poverty.

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By *tella HeelsTV/TS
over a year ago

west here ford shire

Trust me we should be grateful for having the NHS, the treatment and care I’ve received has been outstanding!!

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By *aren1956TV/TS
over a year ago

Fakenham

Organisation is the key; in my former town they closed the A&E at the local hospital and opened an (expensive) new walk-in centre less than 2 miles away. A stunning example of wasted resources and poor planning.

No one in charge in the NHS seems to be accountable for bad decisions unlike in the real world.

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By *rsSBWoman
over a year ago

toy town

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By *est Wales WifeCouple
over a year ago

Near Carmarthen

It's very simple the NHS is being deliberately defunded and sold off to private health care companies (it is incidentally despite all it's issues one of the most cost effective helath care providers in the world),

Then once the Neocons who engineered Brexit have their way American companies will be allowed to gobble up the rest of it up in exchange for the trade deals the UK will so desperately need.

Once that happens it'll be an insurance based system and god help the poor who'll be working two or three jobs on zero hours contracts anyway.

It's all been planned by groups like Atlantic Bridge; but the servile, tv watching, British public are too dumb to see what is going on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Needs a total overhaul by a non political group.Generally, anyone coming into the country must take out private health insurance until they have been here working and paying tax for 20 years.Anyone visiting this country must have full health insurance.Overweight people must be given a timetable and plan to get to proper weight etc etc.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

"Instigate national contracts for suppliers rather than individual trusts all negotiating their own pricing.

..but national contractors rarely if ever accommodate the needs of the communities they're paid to serve or engage local contractors who are often best placed to provide the solution.

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

We also provide healthcare to immigrants who are poor like taxes are charity donations for overseas poverty.

There'd be no NHS at all without the labour of immigrants

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

Work on my preventative healthcare sonit is a health service rather than a treatment service. "

That I do agree with

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We also provide healthcare to immigrants who are poor like taxes are charity donations for overseas poverty.

There'd be no NHS at all without the labour of immigrants"

Rubbish

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All those with back pain should be made to do Pilates. I have had a back injury plus playing front row rugby and Pilates keeps the pain to a level where I don't need painkillers and have great stomach muscles making sit ups and crunches easy(ish) !

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By *bonynivoryCouple
over a year ago

market harborough

"All those with back pain should be made to do Pilates. I have had a back injury plus playing front row rugby and Pilates keeps the pain to a level where I don't need painkillers and have great stomach muscles making sit ups and crunches easy(ish) ! "

Not all back pain is the same. Some people do need painkillers.

Mrs

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By *ara JTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol East

Everyone is a feckin' armchair doctor, eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Excuses,excuses !

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By *etite HandfulWoman
over a year ago

Chester

We also provide healthcare to immigrants who are poor like taxes are charity donations for overseas poverty.

There'd be no NHS at all without the labour of immigrants"

Hardly only around 10-12% are from abroad so it would still be running fine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why can't they kick them out?"

They can,but being a PC ideological left wing bunch they prefer to let tax payer pay £180k than risk upsetting a refugee family that's done nothing but take from this country for 16 years

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By *htcMan
over a year ago

needs major changes

max wages 120k a year for 5days worth of work, regardless of position

stop wasting money on throwing items out instead offer to other trusts for free(this is a big issue)

no treatment if not British born or have not paid into the system. fingerprint ID for everyone who wants to use the nhs so they can check identified and checked if they are valid for treatment.

anyone who abuses a staff member will be banned, anyone is sues will be banned for life.

no more over pay above triple wages, no agency staff.

cut management, and people who abuse the system should be billed such as d*unk, smoking, drugs.

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"Trust me we should be grateful for having the NHS, the treatment and care I’ve received has been outstanding!!"

They were fantastic with my cancer.

Saw the Dr on a Saturday, saw the surgeon on the Thursday, operated on the Friday. The treatment was 3 weeks of Radiotherapy, at the brilliant Clatterbridge hospital.

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By *ime for fun guyMan
over a year ago

Wherever you want

"Instigate national contracts for suppliers rather than individual trusts all negotiating their own pricing.

..but national contractors rarely if ever accommodate the needs of the communities they're paid to serve or engage local contractors who are often best placed to provide the solution."

I was talking about the suppliers of goods not services.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By *oan of DArcCouple
over a year ago

Glasgow

We also provide healthcare to immigrants who are poor like taxes are charity donations for overseas poverty.

There'd be no NHS at all without the labour of immigrants

Hardly only around 10-12% are from abroad so it would still be running fine. "

I think that's fanciful thinking, taking 12% (over 1 in 10) of the workforce out of an already beleaguered service would result in its collapse over time.

Incidentally, the 12% figure is based on ALL staff, over 25% of doctors in the NHS are immigrants.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

Nah Brexit isn't getting rid of smokers -just foreigners.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't want to be treated by someone who does not really understand English and many immigrants do not speak or understand English properly.

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By *tirluvMan
over a year ago

the right frame of mind -London

"I don't want to be treated by someone who does not really understand English and many immigrants do not speak or understand English properly."

So you don't like to be treated by people with strong regional accents either then I take it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Regional accents are fine, you have obviously never had to deal with people who do not speak or understand English properly.It can be a matter of life and death like the girl who died after an allergic reaction.The assistant who sold her food which killed her did not understand English.

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By *bonynivoryCouple
over a year ago

market harborough

"Regional accents are fine, you have obviously never had to deal with people who do not speak or understand English properly.It can be a matter of life and death like the girl who died after an allergic reaction.The assistant who sold her food which killed her did not understand English."

Someone selling food is different from a medical professional.

Mrs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you're ever in doubt about what you're being told by an NHS nurse or doctor, ask for it to be written down

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By *anana JoeMan
over a year ago

Sheffield

We also provide healthcare to immigrants who are poor like taxes are charity donations for overseas poverty.

There'd be no NHS at all without the labour of immigrants

Hardly only around 10-12% are from abroad so it would still be running fine.

I think that's fanciful thinking, taking 12% (over 1 in 10) of the workforce out of an already beleaguered service would result in its collapse over time.

Incidentally, the 12% figure is based on ALL staff, over 25% of doctors in the NHS are immigrants.

The sickness rate in the NHS runs at about 11% so I think it would cope.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If they cannot speak English properly,they are hardly likely to be able to write it !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someone selling food is different from a medical professional.

Mrs"

It's still a matter of life and death !

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By *bonynivoryCouple
over a year ago

market harborough

Someone selling food is different from a medical professional.

Mrs

It's still a matter of life and death !"

Yes but the thread is about the NHS not people selling food.

Mrs

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

We also provide healthcare to immigrants who are poor like taxes are charity donations for overseas poverty.

There'd be no NHS at all without the labour of immigrants

Hardly only around 10-12% are from abroad so it would still be running fine.

I think that's fanciful thinking, taking 12% (over 1 in 10) of the workforce out of an already beleaguered service would result in its collapse over time.

Incidentally, the 12% figure is based on ALL staff, over 25% of doctors in the NHS are immigrants.

The sickness rate in the NHS runs at about 11% so I think it would cope.

"
You may need to check your sources - the latest set of stats (Jan 2018)suggest it's about 4%.

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