FabSwingers.com forum: I see the smoking nazis are out in force again...

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

They are now trying to ban people smoking in their cars.... or so the media would have us believe...

Actually, the bill being put forward is only to ban smoking in cars which contain children too, fairly sensible in my view, but the car fumes are doing damage, in big cities, so shall we just ban the kids from cars?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

why stop there.

ban kids

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When Killjoys Inc. have done away with smoking completely they'll start on alcohol simply to justify their existence. Government seems to forget sometimes that it's there to serve the people, not treat us as a commodity to be shepherded about as they see fit.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" so shall we just ban the kids from cars?

only the ones that smoke

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When Killjoys Inc. have done away with smoking completely they'll start on alcohol simply to justify their existence. Government seems to forget sometimes that it's there to serve the people, not treat us as a commodity to be shepherded about as they see fit. "

but if they did that, then they would realise that we really dont need them all that much

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

To protect the vulnerable society must act together when individuals choose not too….

A law that protects innocent children from the reckless actions of adults is not a imposition of civil liberty or infringement of our freedom

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well as i got shunted from behind by a driver lighting a cigarette and not watching the road i think its a good idea. You can't use a hand held phone as its a distraction and a cigarette is a distraction too so im all for it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You already can't drink if you are driving.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Well as i got shunted from behind by a driver lighting a cigarette and not watching the road i think its a good idea. You can't use a hand held phone as its a distraction and a cigarette is a distraction too so im all for it."

what about talking to passengers or listening to the radio, or as ive seen alot so focused on the sat nav that not even paying any attention to the road.

its a slippery slope

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what about talking to passengers or listening to the radio, or as ive seen alot so focused on the sat nav that not even paying any attention to the road.

its a slippery slope"

Sorry but you are not holding your passengers hand or twiddling with the areal while driving or shouldn't be. Both would be potentially classed as dangerous driving. Smoking is a distraction plain and simple. no matter how you try to muddy the waters.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

Lets weigh it up

Nazis......Because they murdered millions in concentration camps and forced millions more into forced labour?

Nazis....Because they want to protect innocent children from passive smoking in a confined space?

hhhmmmmmmmm.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what about talking to passengers or listening to the radio, or as ive seen alot so focused on the sat nav that not even paying any attention to the road.

its a slippery slope

i have actualy been hit by someone who was busy playing with his radio. so it is a valid point.

and have seen people head turned round talking to people in the back seat.

my point was bad driving is just that, banning things wont make them better, education as in most cases is the key, however its cheaper and easyer to just ban things.

and does it work, no

how many people do you see on the phone still???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what about talking to passengers or listening to the radio, or as ive seen alot so focused on the sat nav that not even paying any attention to the road.

its a slippery slope

i have actualy been hit by someone who was busy playing with his radio. so it is a valid point.

and have seen people head turned round talking to people in the back seat.

my point was bad driving is just that, banning things wont make them better, education as in most cases is the key, however its cheaper and easyer to just ban things.

and does it work, no

how many people do you see on the phone still???"

Those are all acts of driving without due care and attention and if caught doing them then you will get stopped and potentially prosecuted. And you are totally wrong about banning things not making things any better as history has proven it has on many occasions for drivers, passengers and pedestrians, two classic examples are drink driving and the compulsory use of the seatbelt.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We both smoke and we don't have a problem with the smoking ban in public places.in fact we think its a good thing.

We don't smoke in our house.only in the garden. we do sometimes smoke in the car but wouldn't dream of doing it when our grandson is in the car. That seems an obvious thing not to do.However it is a private car.

seems its just another example of the nannying state. that said if some people are dim enough to smoke in a car that has children in it a new law probably won't make a lot of difference to them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To protect the vulnerable society must act together when individuals choose not too….

A law that protects innocent children from the reckless actions of adults is not a imposition of civil liberty or infringement of our freedom

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By *ruitWoman
over a year ago

near kings lynn

My parents did smoke with us in the car(me and siblings) and we all hated it. So much none of us smoke because of it. I will be very pleased to see it banned as it protects the kids. They shouldnt have to breathe it in.

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By *ENGUYMan
over a year ago

Hull

Due to a medical condition I contracted around 20+ years ago, I'm now allergic to tobacco smoke, amongst other everyday life products.

For me, the smoking ban in pubs, clubs, and public buildings was a blessed relief! I agree that it should relate to company vehicles too as they are classified as "a place of work".

But I consider that the Nanny State is going too far about this ban in all cars. Maybe if children are in the car, then it could be viewed as harmful, but to stop ALL smoking in ALL cars!

Ridiculous!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Strange how some who think smoking is a distraction think nothing of flashing lorry drivers on the motorway on other threads...just saying!

Personally I don't think anyone who'd contemplate smoking with kids in the car will take any notice!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Strange how some who think smoking is a distraction think nothing of flashing lorry drivers on the motorway on other threads...just saying!

Personally I don't think anyone who'd contemplate smoking with kids in the car will take any notice! "

Perhaps your right, maybe some people will selfishly ignore this attempt to protect their children’s well-being….

However their own selfishness now has to contend with the possibility it might result in them losing money in fines or indeed their option to drive vehicles at all ….!.

So that might stimulate a change in attitude,,,, eh!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

if this was a move to protect children, which i dont believe for a min, then why not ban smoking at home if you have kids, they spend much more time there than in the car

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

maybe the 'nazis' bringing in the 'fairly sensible' idea of banning smoking in cars when kids are present,

have thought that to bring in a 'partial' ban eg. when the kids are in the car only will lead to confusion and some to flount it.

also there is evidence of the toxins etc still being present after the tobacco is used.

dont really make sense to have someone drive smoking away then pick up the kids who will still suffer direct harm or even 'abuse'.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"if this was a move to protect children, which i dont believe for a min, then why not ban smoking at home if you have kids, they spend much more time there than in the car"

Why would an adult choose to endanger a child in any environment,,,,, the point of this legislation is a child cant elect to leave a moving vehicle,,,,,

however in a house a child can leave the room where smoking is taking place either voluntarily or under instruction!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

but surely if a parent is not caring enough to not smoke around their kids then they prob wont care about the law, and lets face it bans dont work, i see people on the phone in the car all the time

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By *ond_donkeyMan
over a year ago

tenerife

I agree with the ban kids comment .

any over 30 wasnt aloud in a pub when we was young now its like a playground

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but surely if a parent is not caring enough to not smoke around their kids then they prob wont care about the law, and lets face it bans dont work, i see people on the phone in the car all the time"

Suerly your not suggesting society does nothing.... are you?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

[Removed by poster at 16/11/11 10:48:21]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but surely if a parent is not caring enough to not smoke around their kids then they prob wont care about the law, and lets face it bans dont work, i see people on the phone in the car all the time

Suerly your not suggesting society does nothing.... are you? "

but its always such a weak reaction.

why not just ban smoking full stop.

why because the duty payed on cigs is huge and the overspending gov would be lost with out it

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"They are now trying to ban people smoking in their cars.... or so the media would have us believe...

In which case they will probably need to ban car fumes as when a child is in a pram they are just at the right level to get a good old whiff

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

"Lets weigh it up

Nazis....Because they want to protect innocent children from passive smoking in a confined space?

hhhmmmmmmmm.....

Is it a ban if there is no kids in the car?"

As you have only extracted one part of my post for the quote, I will explain that I was questioning the trivial use of the word 'Nazi' in my post...

To me the word Nazi has a far more poignant meaning in history than to trivialise it by referring to a Health lobby as 'Nazis' for attempting to act in the health interest if children....

Hence my attempt at comparison....

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

probably more about 'our dave' pandering to his libdem chums and giving them something to say 'look what we the coalition has achieved'

it wont have an effect on sales and if it does they are 'finding new markets' in other countries by giving cigarettes away to children anyway.

make you right rugby but maybe the fuel lobby is a 'bit stronger' than the tobacco one?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are now trying to ban people smoking in their cars.... or so the media would have us believe...

In which case they will probably need to ban car fumes as when a child is in a pram they are just at the right level to get a good old whiff

A graduated tightening of the legislation in relation to allowable exhaust emissions does exist…….

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

"Actually, the bill being put forward is only to ban smoking in cars which contain children too, fairly sensible in my view, but the car fumes are doing damage, in big cities, so shall we just ban the kids from cars?

Actually, as I understand it there is no "Bill"! It is a suggestion/proposal by the BMA after a report found that smoking in a car results in a 23% increase in toxins in that small atmosphere! It is nothing to do with the Government!

I would be glad of a ban in cars! Smoking is worse than unwrapping/eating a chocolate bar whilst driving! Find the packet, open it and get the cigarette out! Put it in your mouth and light it only to have the possibility of the smoke getting in your eyes. It is also very hot and if you were to drop it, could make you lose control! That is quite apart from the health associations..

Of course, most on here are way better prepared. They always have everything to hand and it causes no problems. Or they get their partners to do it…

I knew a guy who got up about 2am to go drive his lorry and after getting dressed, jumped in his car and drove down the road while lighting a cigarette. That first lungful of smoke caused a heart attack and he crashed causing extensive property damage but thankfully no casualties except himself.

That lungful was taken at the most vulnerable time, the time when most heart attacks occur in smokers. That first "drag" constricts the blood vessels and increases the blood pressure, a deadly combination...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but surely if a parent is not caring enough to not smoke around their kids then they prob wont care about the law, and lets face it bans dont work, i see people on the phone in the car all the time

Suerly your not suggesting society does nothing.... are you?

but its always such a weak reaction.

why not just ban smoking full stop.

why because the duty payed on cigs is huge and the overspending gov would be lost with out it"

Lets look at that the other way around

why because the duty payed on cigs is huge and the overspending gov would be lost with out it

why not just ban smoking full stop.

but its always such a weak reaction.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but surely if a parent is not caring enough to not smoke around their kids then they prob wont care about the law, and lets face it bans dont work, i see people on the phone in the car all the time

Suerly your not suggesting society does nothing.... are you?

but its always such a weak reaction.

why not just ban smoking full stop.

why because the duty payed on cigs is huge and the overspending gov would be lost with out it

Lets look at that the other way around

why because the duty payed on cigs is huge and the overspending gov would be lost with out it

why not just ban smoking full stop.

but its always such a weak reaction.

sorry lost me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what about talking to passengers or listening to the radio, or as ive seen alot so focused on the sat nav that not even paying any attention to the road.

its a slippery slope"

Can we ban lipstick too, as I've often witnessed women applying their makeup whilst driving along at 40mph+

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

lets just ban everything, and take away all responsability, as we obviously cant do it ourselves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"For me, the smoking ban in pubs, clubs, and public buildings was a blessed relief! I agree that it should relate to company vehicles too as they are classified as "a place of work".

Any vehicle which is used for commercial purposes, including cars (incl self employed!) are included in the place of work and is illegal to smoke in said vehicles.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I knew a guy who got up about 2am to go drive his lorry and after getting dressed, jumped in his car and drove down the road while lighting a cigarette. That first lungful of smoke caused a heart attack and he crashed causing extensive property damage but thankfully no casualties except himself.

And for those that die of heart attacks at the wheel who do NOT smoke, it can be attributed to....?

Weak argument. The guy was obviously in general poor health and a heart attack was imminent regardless of where he was or what he was doing, but you don't say what physical condition he was, just that he smoked, and that's a typical anti-smoker's tactic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If a child is in our car when Tra is driving the effects of passive smoking would be the least of it's worries

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"but surely if a parent is not caring enough to not smoke around their kids then they prob wont care about the law, and lets face it bans dont work, i see people on the phone in the car all the time

Suerly your not suggesting society does nothing.... are you?

but its always such a weak reaction.

why not just ban smoking full stop.

why because the duty payed on cigs is huge and the overspending gov would be lost with out it

Lets look at that the other way around

why because the duty payed on cigs is huge and the overspending gov would be lost with out it

why not just ban smoking full stop.

but its always such a weak reaction.

sorry lost me

Its was an intended to demonstrate your acceptance of an excuse not to intervene rather than you attempting to offer a solution to protect vulnerable kids .

Bad deeds are done when good people stand by and do nothing...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

see my above post, why not ban everything, our gov is way to envolved in our lives as it is, and imo often not for the better, what will be next?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"see my above post, why not ban everything, our gov is way to envolved in our lives as it is, and imo often not for the better, what will be next?"

This is my point exactly in my earlier post. A government should not be seeking to control every aspect of our lives, just running the services we need when we need them. We are not the product of government, we are the end user of it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"see my above post, why not ban everything, our gov is way to envolved in our lives as it is, and imo often not for the better, what will be next?"

Because theres no need to ban everything if people behave responsibly...

The idea does not suggest taking over-all control of our freedom of choice, its only about helping to to protect vunrable kids...

As for whats next?,,,,, thats another thread!! init?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"see my above post, why not ban everything, our gov is way to envolved in our lives as it is, and imo often not for the better, what will be next?

agree, they are our servants not the other way around

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"If a child is in our car when Tra is driving the effects of passive smoking would be the least of it's worries

your in for it now !

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"see my above post, why not ban everything, our gov is way to envolved in our lives as it is, and imo often not for the better, what will be next?

'we' are indeed but some of 'we' do the daftest/dangerous/irrsponsible things which allows 'them' to legislate in area's that the the majority of 'we' look at and go 'wtf' is that about...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Let the do-gooders sit in a garage with their car running all night and a smoker in a garage smoking their cigerettes and let's see who walks out after a night in there.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

agree, they are our servants not the other way around"

thats what they want us to think, if it ever got to the point where they did have to do as we say

most of them would jack it in

we get what we deserve cos at the end of the day the vast majority care not a jot about politics, the system etc

its a feckin joke when more people vote for reality tv than take part in that which affects their own life...

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By *ola cubesMan
over a year ago

coatbridge

"Let the do-gooders sit in a garage with their car running all night and a smoker in a garage smoking their cigerettes and let's see who walks out after a night in there. "
plus 1

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I never smoke in a car anyway. Although I do smoke all those years of mum and dad puffing away when we were younger and I was always guaranteed to be travel sick lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It seems the arguments against the proposed legislation have now petered out to the sad whimper of posts shooting off on tangents attempting to deflect from an ineffectual defence of doing nothing to help defend the rights of vulnerable kids….!.

Oh well…… that what I love about forums ….!.

So I’m outta this one…. pffftttt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Reported Road Casualties in Great Britain, 2010

Killed 1,850

Seriously Injured 22,660

Slightly Injured 184,138

All 208,648

If we're that intent on protecting kids maybe we should ban them from cars

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Reported Road Casualties in Great Britain, 2010

Killed 1,850

Seriously Injured 22,660

Slightly Injured 184,138

All 208,648

If we're that intent on protecting kids maybe we should ban them from cars"

Hmmmm.....I wouldn't imagine too many of those cars involved where being driven by kids though.....

I'm really outta here now!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It seems the arguments against the proposed legislation have now petered out to the sad whimper of posts shooting off on tangents attempting to deflect from an ineffectual defence of doing nothing to help defend the rights of vulnerable kids….!.

Oh well…… that what I love about forums ….!.

So I’m outta this one…. pffftttt

Well everyone else was spouting random bollocks so I thought I'd join in

All this bumf is coming from a government that used to ply its workers and fighting forces with cigerettes because they were good for you!

Its like your mum and dad telling you its ok to drink booze, shove it down your neck and turn around and reprimand you for being pissed

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Reported Road Casualties in Great Britain, 2010

Killed 1,850

Seriously Injured 22,660

Slightly Injured 184,138

All 208,648

If we're that intent on protecting kids maybe we should ban them from cars

Hmmmm.....I wouldn't imagine too many of those cars involved where being driven by kids though.....

I'm really outta here now!!!

Opp's....I meant to say....

I wouldn't imagine too many of those cars involved where being driven by * smoking* kids though....

Ok I really have gone now....!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's about choice, kids can't tell their parents not to smoke in the car...

But parents can chose to walk a better way with the pram to minimise the risks or traffic fumes.

And cars are having their emissions regulated and reduced with new designs...and those that Live in parts of London are getting the bad poluters out of the zone or pay £100!

And remember there are no poor somkers, they have money to burn

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let the do-gooders sit in a garage with their car running all night and a smoker in a garage smoking their cigerettes and let's see who walks out after a night in there. "

+1 from me too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To protect the vulnerable society must act together when individuals choose not too….

A law that protects innocent children from the reckless actions of adults is not a imposition of civil liberty or infringement of our freedom

That is a can of worms if ever I saw one, The debate on the levels of damage by passive smoking as opposed to industrial pollution in general is still not conclusive. No one is saying it isn't harmful at all. But before you know it there will be laws telling people what we can and can't do in our own homes. Which may include dare I say such activities deemed outside the boundaries of the norm as swinging and cross dressing. I suggest people be very careful what they wish for!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its all getting a bit silly. I dont think they should have banned smoking in pubs, they should ban kids from pubs. I dont like my hubby smoking near my little dog though.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Shall we ban the use of car radios too as changing the channel or swapping a disc is also a distraction, Also if you are singing along tapping your feet or hands to a good tune, you are not concentrating on the road ahead 100%. While we are at it lets isolate the driver and ban them from talking to their passengers so they can't be distracted by conversation or by the kids in the back.

What would be a much better idea would be to have on board cameras in all vehicles, How many people would drive like tossers if everything they did was recorded. There are some trials of this at the moment in the US. Driven by insurance companies.

Not sure I would want it but............

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By *unessexblMan
over a year ago

Colchester

Because thw smoking ban was ruining my enjoyment of cigarettes I gave them up, however I then felt the Goverment were missing out on valuable tax revenue from me stopping my habbit so with the money I saved from the cigarettes every month i use this to make the payments on my big 4x4 which donated just as much money to the goverment coffers with fuel duty and road tax so I now feel happy that I am doing my bit for the debt crisis!!

By the way can anyone do me a cash deal on servicing to save the VAT

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think all windscreens on cars should be blacked out too as it's a distraction to look at pretty little picturesque scenes as you drive down the motorway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its all getting a bit silly. I dont think they should have banned smoking in pubs, they should ban kids from pubs. I dont like my hubby smoking near my little dog though."

I grew up in a pub with my parents and 3 brothers in the days when it seemed everyone smoked.Somedays you would have to go down to the cellar and stand in front of the cooler fan just to stop your eyes burning. My dad is a non smoker and spent 37 years in a VERY smoky environment but he's 73 now and has never had an illness related to or caused by passive smoking. The medical authority says there are 23 times the toxins in a smoky car as opposed to a smoky pub. How do you quantify that? Is it a a big pub? a little pub? one person smoking? 50? Does the car have the fans on? windows open?..They make it up as they go along just like they recently admitted the alcohol units allowed were pulled out of thin air.

That said pubs are much nicer now there's no smoking in them

If you can fucking find one that ain't shut down

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That said pubs are much nicer now there's no smoking in them

If you can fucking find one that ain't shut down"

Nail - head. Spot on.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To protect the vulnerable society must act together when individuals choose not too….

A law that protects innocent children from the reckless actions of adults is not a imposition of civil liberty or infringement of our freedom

Do you know what.... I don't worry about a world like your......becuase it only exists in the minds of those who put more effort into finding reasons not to fix problems than they do in trying to coming up with workable solutions that stop harm to others...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its all getting a bit silly. I dont think they should have banned smoking in pubs, they should ban kids from pubs. I dont like my hubby smoking near my little dog though.

That said pubs are much nicer now there's no smoking in them

If you can fucking find one that ain't shut down"

lol

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

So the smokers are blaming the smoking ban for pubs closing down?

They were closing down fast enough before the ban, high property rental, over subscription of pubs in a small area, cheap alcohol prices in supremarkets....and all,and all.

I was out in Newton Abbot on Monday evening, it's a small Devon market town, there are at least Ten pubs still going strong within a 1000 meter radius of the town centre that I know of....

So one or two have closed over the last couple of years.....it's just business and a growing trend for people to spend more evenings at home with their families.

Has the smoking ban made an impact?....of course it has, but no more than market forces and over subscription of public houses in the past.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Who blamed the smoking ban for closing pubs?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oooooooooohhhhhh, I love these smoking threads

can we have one every day please?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oooooooooohhhhhh, I love these smoking threads

can we have one every day please?

bit habit forming if they get too regular m8 -~

Wolf

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To protect the vulnerable society must act together when individuals choose not too….

A law that protects innocent children from the reckless actions of adults is not a imposition of civil liberty or infringement of our freedom

Well you should worry about it as should we all, the answer to changing peoples habits is not to just legislate and pass a new law and thus tell people how it is going to be from now on. there in lies a nanny state. The only answer to societies ill's is to change peoples attitude by positive campaigning this may take longer as turning a normal habit into an unsociable habit by advertising and campaigning does tend to take a generation or two. But the end result is much more effective. And the population as a whole become much more accepting of the 'new' status quo.

The laws of state should be used as a last resort and only as a last resort.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So the smokers are blaming the smoking ban for pubs closing down?

They were closing down fast enough before the ban, high property rental, over subscription of pubs in a small area, cheap alcohol prices in supremarkets....and all,and all.

I was out in Newton Abbot on Monday evening, it's a small Devon market town, there are at least Ten pubs still going strong within a 1000 meter radius of the town centre that I know of....

So one or two have closed over the last couple of years.....it's just business and a growing trend for people to spend more evenings at home with their families.

Has the smoking ban made an impact?....of course it has, but no more than market forces and over subscription of public houses in the past."

In Middle Class England that may be the case, but in the poorest areas of England, pubs are clsoing at an alarming rate. It takes us about 15 minutes to drive to the Sainsburys Superstore we prefer to shop at and the route takes us past 8 pubs that have closed in the past 12 months. In the opposite direction there are 4 pubs that have closed within the last 6 months and within a 4 mile radius of our house.

The smoking ban was not the sole reason for these pub closures but more of a final straw factor in the designed decline of the British Pub industry, all brought about by successive Labour policies to get the workers out of pubs and ensconced in their homes where it's much safer for the (then Labour) government to have them - they can't galvanise in their homes.

Have the Tories helped the pub industry any better than Labour did?

Nope, of course not, as they don't want people milling around in pubs getting merry and getting organised either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In answer to the op , im all for not smoking around kids . I avoid doing it wether im in a car or on the street i dont like smoking in front of them . I do smoke in my house . however i sometimes go with my mate who is a truck driver when its long boring journeys and we both smoke , so what the government is saying is we have 2 adults in a truck who both smoke but we haven't to do that ?? eventually they will just outlaw it along with alcohol , laughter , smiling , any form of amusement , gambling , sex . it will be work and pay your taxes then f'off to your grave . Don't have any kids cause the population is too much bla bla bla fuck em . i write this puffing happily away n my own house .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To protect the vulnerable society must act together when individuals choose not too….

A law that protects innocent children from the reckless actions of adults is not a imposition of civil liberty or infringement of our freedom

The laws of state should be used as a last resort and only as a last resort."

Yeah yeah,,,,If you say so!!!,,,, but surely your plan to change attitudes by education has to have include a cut off point,,,,if only for the sake of the kids who are left suffering wherever your plan does not fully engage..... if you catch my drift...

So although you say I should worry about being subjected to legislation designed to control inappropriate behaviour,,,,, I'll save my concern for those in society who are vulnerable to inappropriate behaviour now .....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To protect the vulnerable society must act together when individuals choose not too….

A law that protects innocent children from the reckless actions of adults is not a imposition of civil liberty or infringement of our freedom

The laws of state should be used as a last resort and only as a last resort.

I see, so lets legislate, Lets ban all combustion vehicles from passing schools because of the toxins they belch out, lets also ban any electrical device that creates a magnetic field from all homes and schools as the magnetic field some scientists believe are dangerous, especially to the young. Lets ban all foodstuffs with additives of any kind including preservatives. Shall we legislate against all these too

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Oooooooooohhhhhh, I love these smoking threads

can we have one every day please?

bit habit forming if they get too regular m8 -~

Wolf

Too late Wolf..........I'm addicted

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

well it came up on last big posting session where i pointed out doing some health research about car pollution in inner city areas...no one likes the link to cars vs smoking causing health issues(think we know why dont we!).Granted smoking while kids are present is pretty unacceptable!

the prime example is levels of toxicity under glasgows central station bridge, from the fumes alone its like 20 cigarettes ...of course I dunno how long u have to stay under the bridge....just thinking right now im outta fags....find me under the bridge

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"well it came up on last big posting session where i pointed out doing some health research about car pollution in inner city areas...no one likes the link to cars vs smoking causing health issues(think we know why dont we!).Granted smoking while kids are present is pretty unacceptable!

I gave em up 2 years ago for the benefit of our young un, but still enjoy a good bit of passive. where is that bridge again ??

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By *otswbabeCouple
over a year ago

north cornwall

Its a shame to say it but parents who don't care about poisoning their kids lungs won't take any notice. They will smoke around them indoors too. If the gov are trying to change the way they think good luck trying to make them care.

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By *uro anchorMan
over a year ago

Coventry

they should ban smoking in cars..

i struggle to hold a cig with a cup of coffee and a sandwich....

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By *uro anchorMan
over a year ago

Coventry

u notice when u go to chams when ur outside for a fag how many non smokers join u......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"u notice when u go to chams when ur outside for a fag how many non smokers join u......"

that's because some say smokers are more approachable/civil/friendly....and sexier

of course others say that's total bollocks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I gave em up 2 years ago for the benefit of our young un, but still enjoy a good bit of passive. where is that bridge again ??

hope thats u jane cos I thought u said u enjoy a bit of massive... u can smoke me anytime

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hitler and his damnd band of smokers!!!

Grrrrrr...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"they should ban smoking in cars..

i struggle to hold a cig with a cup of coffee and a sandwich...."

Don't know why...but that tickled me!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about if we smoke handsfree?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about if we smoke handsfree?"

thats the kind of bj i like...need to have good skill cos i dont cum easy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Its all getting a bit silly. I dont think they should have banned smoking in pubs, they should ban kids from pubs. I dont like my hubby smoking near my little dog though."

Banning smoking from pubs was nothing to do with kids in pubs, it was to protect bar staff from passive smoking....

This is not legislation, or even a white paper, this is a proposal from a consultation group.

I am a smoker, but i dont drive so this doesnt affect me.

One thing I definately wanted to say, when looking at rod safety. Of all the things that cause accidents on the roads, you can add everything together, smoking, phones, appkying makeup faulty vehicles and they will all total less than driving speed. It's the largest contributor and exaserbator of the seriousness in the statistics.......

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Try those e-cigs, they're legal to use anywhere.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Lets weigh it up

Nazis....Because they want to protect innocent children from passive smoking in a confined space?

hhhmmmmmmmm.....

Is it a ban if there is no kids in the car?

As you have only extracted one part of my post for the quote, I will explain that I was questioning the trivial use of the word 'Nazi' in my post...

And I will explain that it was a genuine question as I hadn't read the OP properly that mentioned about kids.

I exctracted only one part of your post as that was the only bit I was asking about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Because with all the troubles in the world, for all the criminals we already can't catch, for all the laws that are routinely ignored. For the mess that this country is in, for the Jeremy Kyle nation......

This law is what is needed, let's ignore everything else that is screwed up and outlaw yet another thing that will be impossible to police, but a further strain on the economy.

FFS - get a grip"

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"They are now trying to ban people smoking in their cars.... or so the media would have us believe...

In which case they will probably need to ban car fumes as when a child is in a pram they are just at the right level to get a good old whiff

A graduated tightening of the legislation in relation to allowable exhaust emissions does exist…….

It still can't be good for us all breathing in exhaust fumes though?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"If a child is in our car when Tra is driving the effects of passive smoking would be the least of it's worries

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"It's about choice, kids can't tell their parents not to smoke in the car...

But parents can chose to walk a better way with the pram to minimise the risks or traffic fumes.

How? There are cars on most roads, the only way you would avoid them are to use fields to walk across....but then there could be a big fat bull in the field so you could be in worse trouble

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

According to a study in 2009 more than 20 British cities are exceeding pollution level guidelines set by The World Health Organisation.It is estimated in the UK that air pollution is responsible for the deaths of 24 thousand people per annum.

The report goes on to say

"Existing government regulations to tackle air pollution are based on a biased and erroneous partnership model that takes a soft approach with commercial polluters.The annual prosecutions for offences are appallingly disproportionate to the harm caused by air pollution, current approaches to regulation and pollution control are biased in favour of economic imperatives and are failing to tackle the health problems caused by air pollution.

Perhaps this is because the majority of people affected live in low income areas."

Puts the odd fag into perspective with regards to poisoning children

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

From the BBC:

The British Medical Association called for the extension of the current ban on smoking in public places after reviewing evidence of the dangers.

It highlighted research showing the levels of toxins in a car can be up to 23 times higher than in a smoky bar

Smokey bar? Not in this country was that research conducted then. We haven't had a smokey bar in the UK since 2007.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Personally I think it is sad that the goverment even have to think of banning smoking in cars while children are in it, any sensible parent should know it isn't wise to do and not do it anyway.

BUT, I really don't like any goverment banning something , maybe they just need to educate instead.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Talking about smoking.

I love that line in the Royale Family, when Caroline Ahearne says,

"I'll not smoke in the same room as a baby, but once he can walk he can leave the room if he wants".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Smokey bar? Not in this country was that research conducted then. We haven't had a smokey bar in the UK since 2007.

If the government axed the ban on smoking in pubs Dave could say

'the smoky bars are on me'

I'll get me coat

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I think it is sad that the goverment even have to think of banning smoking in cars while children are in it, any sensible parent should know it isn't wise to do and not do it anyway.

BUT, I really don't like any goverment banning something , maybe they just need to educate instead."

Agreed. +1

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just a thought.

Wasn't a no smoking law in company vehicles issued when the smoking in pubs was banned too?

Numerouse times I have seen people weaving across roads and lanes on the motorway reading maps, drinking, smoking, reading papers for meetings, eating, arguing, singing even foriegn truckers driving left hand HGV watching the telly! (I kid you not)

All can lead to penalty points on a driving licence and hefty fines, so smoking/lighting up in a civilian vehicle would come under the same law as above as it distracts attention and the driver uses both hands for initiating smoking, so surely its a punishable offence already isn't it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Fuck me the lengths some smokers will go to so they can justify blowing smoke rings in little Jonnie or Daisy’s face.

Its a filthy fucking habit! Make them all do it in a 6X4 shed at the bottom of the garden!

Oh and while not banning stuff lets stop murder being a crime. We can educate people not to do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Even if they ban it people will still smoke, look at mobiles for instance they are banned and people still use them. Better education in driving is the answer . They need to see the learn2live stuff and see how reckless driving wrecks lives. I'm all for a compulsory driving test every 5 years . I'm not saying it would work but it may improve driving standards if people thought they may lose their licence .

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Fuck me the lengths some smokers will go to so they can justify blowing smoke rings in little Jonnie or Daisy’s face.

Its a filthy fucking habit! Make them all do it in a 6X4 shed at the bottom of the garden!

Oh and while not banning stuff lets stop murder being a crime. We can educate people not to do it.

Smoking isn't a crime, educating parents who havn't got a clue has to be good thing surely?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fuck me the lengths some smokers will go to so they can justify blowing smoke rings in little Jonnie or Daisy’s face.

Its a filthy fucking habit! Make them all do it in a 6X4 shed at the bottom of the garden!

Oh and while not banning stuff lets stop murder being a crime. We can educate people not to do it.

Smoking isn't a crime, educating parents who havn't got a clue has to be good thing surely?"

Well joking aside its not a crime in one seance but i do think a criminal act has been committed getting people hooked on cigarettes in peoples youth.

The thing about people not having a clue well i dont buy that. It says "smoking kills" on packets and even them that dont read will have been nosey and asked.

Help yes i would but also punish those who smoke with kids around as some dont really want to take advice.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

Well that I agree with.

By " havnt a clue" I meant the ignoring of any safety issues by parents more than they didn't realise it is harmful ( if that makes sense)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think it would be hard to police ... how would thay tell if people was having a fag... and would it be like Big brother Cams road side every place looking at you , I have dark windows in the back you would never see .. yes people need to know the risks and some need educaiting not just for them for others .

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Fuck me the lengths some smokers will go to so they can justify blowing smoke rings in little Jonnie or Daisy’s face.

Its a filthy fucking habit! Make them all do it in a 6X4 shed at the bottom of the garden!

Oh and while not banning stuff lets stop murder being a crime. We can educate people not to do it.

Smoking isn't a crime, educating parents who havn't got a clue has to be good thing surely?"

I find it hard to believe that there are parents who 'haven't got a clue' that smoking around children is bad for them

I'm more inclined to believe that they know but couldn't care less as their habit is seemingly more important to them than their childs welfare.

If that is sadly the case then a change in the law is not gonna make any difference to them as they are idiots. as an old friend of mine says "you can't educate pork"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what about talking to passengers or listening to the radio, or as ive seen alot so focused on the sat nav that not even paying any attention to the road.

its a slippery slope

you might not be driving, you might be the passenger.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I see, so lets legislate, Lets ban all combustion vehicles from passing schools because of the toxins they belch out, lets also ban any electrical device that creates a magnetic field from all homes and schools as the magnetic field some scientists believe are dangerous, especially to the young. Lets ban all foodstuffs with additives of any kind including preservatives. Shall we legislate against all these too"

What a bizarre way of attempting to put over your point of view over….!.

Your running off on all sort of tangents instead of addressing the one issue that is in question here….!.

We’ve already had a highly publicised programme of education in place regards the problems caused by passive inhalation for many years….

This is not a new issue we are discussing here,,,, its a well documented problem

A time has too come when action is required to prevent further abuse of children ,,,,,, and when words fail to get the message across,,,,, action must be taken…..

When it comes down to protecting kids, for anyone to apply an argument that resists the objectivd based on example of other wrong doings that may also require attention.... its a simple confirmation of the sort of attitude that causes governments to take control and apply legislation in the first place…….

…..But hey,,,,, perhaps maybe there are people who still hanker for the good old days when we sent kids up chimneys!!!!!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think it would be hard to police ... how would thay tell if people was having a fag... and would it be like Big brother Cams road side every place looking at you , I have dark windows in the back you would never see .. yes people need to know the risks and some need educaiting not just for them for others . "

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If you are seriously talking protection of children then it should also be with no alcohol in the blood whilst caring for or in the presence of children too.

This situation is far more common and dangerous than smoking in cars.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What more education you need then "Smoking Kills" is plastered over the box.

Banning in cars is reasonable, not just because its harmful to your kids it potentially lethal to other road users. Banning outright is music to the ears of every organised crime outfit.

If it does not affect a third party be it smoking, drinking, drugs etc, it nobodies business or lookout but your own.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you are seriously talking protection of children then it should also be with no alcohol in the blood whilst caring for or in the presence of children too.

This situation is far more common and dangerous than smoking in cars."

What as in 0%? What about people who drink fresh orange as that has something like 0.5% or say a flambéed desert?

What about people going out for a night with their partner and then coming home should the babysitter stop till next lunch time?

So how does passive alcohol get into kids blood streams?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Fuck me the lengths some smokers will go to so they can justify blowing smoke rings in little Jonnie or Daisy’s face.

Its a filthy fucking habit! Make them all do it in a 6X4 shed at the bottom of the garden!

Oh and while not banning stuff lets stop murder being a crime. We can educate people not to do it.

Smoking isn't a crime, educating parents who havn't got a clue has to be good thing surely?

I find it hard to believe that there are parents who 'haven't got a clue' that smoking around children is bad for them

I'm more inclined to believe that they know but couldn't care less as their habit is seemingly more important to them than their childs welfare.

If that is sadly the case then a change in the law is not gonna make any difference to them as they are idiots. as an old friend of mine says "you can't educate pork""

Yeah, see my next post, it was exactly what I meant, not got a clue how to look after their children , not so much not got a clue at how bad smoking is.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you are seriously talking protection of children then it should also be with no alcohol in the blood whilst caring for or in the presence of children too.

This situation is far more common and dangerous than smoking in cars.

What as in 0%? What about people who drink fresh orange as that has something like 0.5% or say a flambéed desert?

What about people going out for a night with their partner and then coming home should the babysitter stop till next lunch time?

So how does passive alcohol get into kids blood streams?"

It doesn't. This one takes a bit of thought and comparison. I am not going to spell it out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

"
Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

ohh well looks like i will need to get open face helmet for my bike , nothing mentioned about not being able to smoke on that lol

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"What more education you need then "Smoking Kills" is plastered over the box.

I meant education in parent skills, not whats written on a fag box.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Personally I think it is sad that the goverment even have to think of banning smoking in cars while children are in it, any sensible parent should know it isn't wise to do and not do it anyway.

BUT, I really don't like any goverment banning something , maybe they just need to educate instead.

Agreed. +1 "

Looks like you were the only one who second guessed what I meant, I am sticking with you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??"

Blow into this tube would do the trick. They can already tell if there is alcohol in your lungs so the same for nicotine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What more education you need then "Smoking Kills" is plastered over the box.

I meant education in parent skills, not whats written on a fag box."

perhaps an additional note inside saying "This product does what it says on the box"?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"If you are seriously talking protection of children then it should also be with no alcohol in the blood whilst caring for or in the presence of children too.

This situation is far more common and dangerous than smoking in cars.

What as in 0%? What about people who drink fresh orange as that has something like 0.5% or say a flambéed desert?

What about people going out for a night with their partner and then coming home should the babysitter stop till next lunch time?

So how does passive alcohol get into kids blood streams?

It doesn't. This one takes a bit of thought and comparison. I am not going to spell it out."

Spell it out there is no limit on words you can type.

What about the baby sitter situation then?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

many years in teaching have shown me that the only way to get peoples brain into gear is to make them reason. Never give it on a plate.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??

Blow into this tube would do the trick. They can already tell if there is alcohol in your lungs so the same for nicotine. "

It's not the nicotine in ciggies that's dangerous. It's the other particulates, such as benzine, that can be found at high levels in any town centre.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??

Blow into this tube would do the trick. They can already tell if there is alcohol in your lungs so the same for nicotine.

It's not the nicotine in ciggies that's dangerous. It's the other particulates, such as benzine, that can be found at high levels in any town centre."

Nicotine is highly addictive. The tar in cigarettes increases a smoker's risk of lung cancer, emphysema, and bronchial disorders. The carbon monoxide in smoke increases the chance of cardiovascular diseases. Pregnant smokers have a higher risk of miscarriage or low birthweight babies. Secondhand smoke causes lung cancer in adults and greatly increases the risk of respiratory illnesses in children.

And you are trying to fool who?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not the nicotine in ciggies that's dangerous. It's the other particulates, such as benzine, that can be found at high levels in any town centre."

Presumably nicotine replacement products would also show a positive result. So that blows that one out of the water

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not the nicotine in ciggies that's dangerous. It's the other particulates, such as benzine, that can be found at high levels in any town centre.

Presumably nicotine replacement products would also show a positive result. So that blows that one out of the water"

I am sure if they wished they would find it pretty easy to come up with a breathalyser which says if you have been smoking or not. And an artificial ciggie is going to distract the same as a real one while driving.

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By *orestersCouple
over a year ago

The Forest

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??

Blow into this tube would do the trick. They can already tell if there is alcohol in your lungs so the same for nicotine.

It's not the nicotine in ciggies that's dangerous. It's the other particulates, such as benzine, that can be found at high levels in any town centre.

And you are trying to fool who?

Wikipedia's good, but not always accurate

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sure if they wished they would find it pretty easy to come up with a breathalyser which says if you have been smoking or not."

They already have. Sadly it doesn't measure nicotine but carbon monoxide,and we know where the majority of that comes from in cities.so do we ban people from walking their kids down the street?

Incidentally smoking before being given a breath test for booze can give a false high reading.

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By *atisfy janeWoman
over a year ago

Torquay

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??

Blow into this tube would do the trick. They can already tell if there is alcohol in your lungs so the same for nicotine.

It's not the nicotine in ciggies that's dangerous. It's the other particulates, such as benzine, that can be found at high levels in any town centre.

And you are trying to fool who?

People with addictions of any kind will always try to deflect blame and twist facts, that's just human nature.

You will never stop people from justifying their actions in life, I don't smoke and I wouldn't want to even attempt to tell people that they should stop smoking as it's their life...and their risk.

If people want to smoke themselves into an early grave, or drink themselves to death, or eat themselves into a coffin then so be it......

You can only live one life at a time....and that's your own life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In smoking gests they dont gest nicotine levels they test carbon monoxide. a smoking test would not work as the chemicals stay in the system for a number of days.

Nicotine is a deadly poison. It has long term effects as well as an imediate effect (you can od on nicotine and die)

It does not take 2 hands to light a fag any more than it takes 2 hands to have a wank.

Why, with enemployment at over 2 million, with another generation of kids being condemned to years of unemployment (1 million and counting) are we arguing about some thing put forward by a think tank that has no likelyhood of becoming a white paper, let alone being passed as a bill?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Smoking is a digusting filthy habit, ban it in cars regardless of whether kids are in there or not

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By *oole2010Couple
over a year ago

southampto

while banning smoking in cars due to kids present is very good in principle it is unenforceable we all remember the mobile law they caught loads in the first six months fined them sent them on courses now its virtually unheard of the police have bigger things to concentrate on with all the rising crime levels they cant be everywhere and i think there are or were 13 milion smokers at one point in this country assuming half of them smoke thats seven million drivers ? thats an example by the way not a statistic i read from a blairite quango thats a lot of police we need the other point to think about is i dont think anyone who is being burgled will appreciate the coppers coming round and saying sorry couldnt get here earlier we were nicking someone for smoking in their car we used to have over twenty million smokers in this country now half have quit theres a reason fuel duty is so high they need to get the cash from somehwere always the drivers drinkers and smokers the easy target oh and now most of the population have given up smoking and are living longer have you noticed the retirement age is going up by numerous years ? cos we aint all dying early from smoking or drinking to much anymore ? just a thought

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why doesn't someone just start an e petition to ban all smoking. 100 000 signatures and the government will be forced to look at it.

would they consider it? will they fuck

They're too busy closing vat loopholes which saves someone £1 50 on a DVD

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t mind if adults wish to smoke….. I used to do it myself…… and loved it too....

But frankly reading some of these nonsensical comments claiming tobacco tax is a government cash cow, makes me wonder what sort of effect smoking has on the function of the brain.

If taxation raised from smokers actually covered the cost of medical intervention required when smokers become ill from their habit…… Successive governments would could have abandoned wasting money on educational promotions encouraging people to quit,,,,,

According to the Department of Health own figures, a hospital bed costs approximately £400 a day…. 12 grand a month…….So add to that the cost of procedural treatments and medication…..

Yip….. that’s a one heck of a lot of fags y’d need to suck on to balance to books with cash raised from tobacco taxation where a prolonged stay in hospital is necessitated by the need for your gaspers……

Oh and seemingly 300.000 treatments were needed on children last year for kids suffering from passive inhalation…

Mmmmmmmmm Ahhhhh..... cough cough,,,,,,,mmmmmm!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I`m a Liberatarian at heart...hate the state interfering in my life..

The last Labour government was obsessed with passing legislation...alot of it infringing on peoples freedom of choice...

In this particular case...I can understand it...and possibly agree with the BMA statement, and others ? ...the private memberrs bill !!

I haven`t had a child in my car...fer more years than I can remember...how does this affect me ?..is it fer the greater good that I comply ?

How are they going to enforce my hypothetical 2 fingers ?

This government it appears is in favour of public education...

And the BMA statement is for ALL smoking in ALL cars to be banned it appears at first glance...

Mabye some insane control freak will want to put cctv in cars...( holds breath )

I`m a smoker, and find it hard to argue against as a principle...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I smoke in my car, but never when my grandson is in it. I don't ever let him see me smoking.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"According to the Department of Health own figures, a hospital bed costs approximately £400 a day…. 12 grand a month…….So add to that the cost of procedural treatments and medication…..

Let's see some figures provided by an independant source before we believe what the government agency concerned with the provision of hospital beds says. Not everything in a hospital can be quantified in terms of cost down to the end user, ie. the patient. A patient isn't responsible for the costs incurred in the provision of rubber gloves, for example, nor is the patient responsible for the floors being kept germ free. Those are costs to be borne by the hospital in the provision of professional healthcare, and if you strip out those sorts of costs you'll soon see that the cost of a hospital bed is more like £200/day, and when you compare THAT figure against the number of smokers and the tax raised from them, and the % of smokers that need extensive hospital care purely for smoking-related illnesses, you'll find that smoker's more than pay for the hospital care for smoking-related complaints.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"According to the Department of Health own figures, a hospital bed costs approximately £400 a day…. 12 grand a month…….So add to that the cost of procedural treatments and medication…..

fair point.....so dig out these figures and lets see them !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??

Blow into this tube would do the trick. They can already tell if there is alcohol in your lungs so the same for nicotine. "
yes but you could have stoped up the road to have a puff . Is not going to be easy for them ..to police.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

...Nope, of course not, as they don't want people milling around in pubs getting merry and getting organised either."

teehee, this made me titter, I can't think of anything on the planet less 'organized' than me when I'm 'merry' not wanting people to get organized would be dead easy to achieve...extended pub hours and a big fat bifta on the house

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By *adchickCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus

Tobacco revenue in the UK in 2010 was £6.8 billion.

NHS total budget for 2010 was £110 billion.

So.... smoking related diseases cost the NHS £1.7 billion in 2010 (according to the Daily Mail)....... That means that smokers ploughed £5.1 billion into the NHS.

Do the government really wanna stop smoking?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tobacco revenue in the UK in 2010 was £6.8 billion.

NHS total budget for 2010 was £110 billion.

So.... smoking related diseases cost the NHS £1.7 billion in 2010 (according to the Daily Mail)....... That means that smokers ploughed £5.1 billion into the NHS.

Do the government really wanna stop smoking?"

Now thats very interesting although it doesn't take into account while beds and staff are used for smokers they are not being used treating non-smokers on waiting lists .... but anyway,,, interesting non-the-less,

although I'd still like to see official figures too.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tobacco revenue in the UK in 2010 was £6.8 billion.

NHS total budget for 2010 was £110 billion.

So.... smoking related diseases cost the NHS £1.7 billion in 2010 (according to the Daily Mail)....... That means that smokers ploughed £5.1 billion into the NHS.

Do the government really wanna stop smoking?

although I'd still like to see official figures too.....

No flies land on you ..eh Soxy

I`m off fer a bath....and Sink the Bismark...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No flies land on you ..eh Soxy

I`m off fer a bath....and Sink the Bismark...

haha,,, Dave,,,, I think theres more chance of nailing jelly to a wall than finding a general agreement on this hot topic...

hey man.... be careful where ya sit in the bath ....keep away from the plug,,, it can leave a mark for days ...

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

Sorry for the delay in this reply. The Tinterweb went down at lunch time and we just have it back!

"And for those that die of heart attacks at the wheel who do NOT smoke, it can be attributed to....?"

That is patently not relevant to this post thread or my post!

"Weak argument. The guy was obviously in general poor health and a heart attack was imminent regardless of where he was or what he was doing, but you don't say what physical condition he was, just that he smoked, and that's a typical anti-smoker's tactic."

The guy was a lorry driver who drove petrol tankers for a living. That made him the cream of the crop and he had a medical every six months. He had been told that he should give up smoking but in his words " Nothing wrong with my health, my granddad smoked till he died at 80!"

This guy died at 48 supposedly in good health! It was very lucky that he was not driving his lorry at the time, but then it likely wouldn’t have happened as there was no smoking in a vehicle carrying dangerous goods. (Before the smoking ban) The inquest into his death agreed that it was a “Myocardial infarction brought on by the sudden increase in blood pressure and constriction of arteries associated with smoking”

No warning.. No time to save him…

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By *teborahCouple
over a year ago

warrington

"Let the do-gooders sit in a garage with their car running all night and a smoker in a garage smoking their cigerettes and let's see who walks out after a night in there. "

Depends what car really and what fuel it uses. True if its a pre cat fitted car there is a good chance you would be dead long before the morning but if its a new petrol powered car then be prepared to sit there for a a long long time as they produce "F" all out the exhaust now so i would say 20 fags is far more harmfull and smell far worse. Quite often i have to drive various customers cars and they think nothing of lighting up a fag as its there car and there rules so how fair is that??

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By *oole2010Couple
over a year ago

southampto

i agree you will never find an agreement on whos paying what tax and whos a burden on the nhs as churchill said theres statistcs statistics and downright lies whatever we do we all need the nhs so gladly pay into it if you debate about how much smokers cost then it goes on to obese people so should we have a fat tax to pay for gastric bands an bypasses or cosmetic surgery on the nhs bah blah blah let it lie this thread was about a white paper and smoking in cars while kids are in it im a smoker and i dont do that i smoke outdoors at home as well (well in the porch in winter )the nhs is there for all taxpayers at time of need

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a bizarre way of attempting to put over your point of view over….!.

Your running off on all sort of tangents instead of addressing the one issue that is in question here….!.

We’ve already had a highly publicised programme of education in place regards the problems caused by passive inhalation for many years….

This is not a new issue we are discussing here,,,, its a well documented problem

A time has too come when action is required to prevent further abuse of children ,,,,,, and when words fail to get the message across,,,,, action must be taken…..

…..But hey,,,,, perhaps maybe there are people who still hanker for the good old days when we sent kids up chimneys!!!!!!

Not at all bizzarre, let me put it slightly differently. If we are going to set a law banning smoking to protect our children lets also ban alcohol at the same time. that way all the children that suffer domestic violence and abuse from d*unk adults will be protected. Or is that different too ?

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

No warning.. No time to save him…

a close friend,died at 36,with exactly the same condition.his job required regular health checks also.

he had never smoked,i'm thinking,how much easier,would it have been to attribute blame,had he smoked hmmmmmm

that said,no responsible person would smoke,with a child in the car.

i like smoking,and would happily smoke,under the stairs,with my head stuck up a extraction fan,fitted with nicotine filters.

if this would mean,i never again,had to listen to the constant whinging,and whining,of non smokers.

the smoking ban in pubs,is brilliant.

going outside for a fag,has made me realise,us smokers are the nicest people.

it also got me thinking,where are all the non smokers.who were going to fill the pubs,when they didn't have to go home smelling of smoke,did yous miss us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Smoking is a digusting filthy habit, ban it in cars regardless of whether kids are in there or not

I agree, with my fag in hand and titillating stare

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

No warning.. No time to save him…

a close friend,died at 36,with exactly the same condition.his job required regular health checks also.

he had never smoked,i'm thinking,how much easier,would it have been to attribute blame,had he smoked hmmmmmm

that said,no responsible person would smoke,with a child in the car.

i like smoking,and would happily smoke,under the stairs,with my head stuck up a extraction fan,fitted with nicotine filters.

if this would mean,i never again,had to listen to the constant whinging,and whining,of non smokers.

the smoking ban in pubs,is brilliant.

going outside for a fag,has made me realise,us smokers are the nicest people.

it also got me thinking,where are all the non smokers.who were going to fill the pubs,when they didn't have to go home smelling of smoke,did yous miss us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They would police it in exactly the same way they do people holding a mobile phone in their hand

Thay can find out who you called and the time on a mobile how would thay people have a fag ??

Blow into this tube would do the trick. They can already tell if there is alcohol in your lungs so the same for nicotine.

It's not the nicotine in ciggies that's dangerous. It's the other particulates, such as benzine, that can be found at high levels in any town centre.

And you are trying to fool who?

so is heroin, get the uncut stuff and people can be healthy albeit addicted ..its whats mixed with the drug that causes the ill effects

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By *uckoo clockCouple
over a year ago

Merseyside

spot on wishy....couldnt agree more !!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"i agree you will never find an agreement on whos paying what tax and whos a burden on the nhs as churchill said theres statistcs statistics and downright lies whatever we do we all need the nhs so gladly pay into it if you debate about how much smokers cost then it goes on to obese people so should we have a fat tax to pay for gastric bands an bypasses or cosmetic surgery on the nhs bah blah blah let it lie this thread was about a white paper and smoking in cars while kids are in it im a smoker and i dont do that i smoke outdoors at home as well (well in the porch in winter )the nhs is there for all taxpayers at time of need "

Mark Twain methinks.

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

lets not forget the sportsmen/women,and how much they cost the nhs.

they dont even pay any extra tax grrrrrr.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

what about babies, newbies never paid tax at all .............. and they come in crying and screaming .....

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By *umourCouple
over a year ago

Rushden

No warning.. No time to save him…

a close friend,died at 36,with exactly the same condition.his job required regular health checks also.

he had never smoked,i'm thinking,how much easier,would it have been to attribute blame,had he smoked hmmmmmm

that said,no responsible person would smoke,with a child in the car.

i like smoking,and would happily smoke,under the stairs,with my head stuck up a extraction fan,fitted with nicotine filters.

if this would mean,i never again,had to listen to the constant whinging,and whining,of non smokers.

the smoking ban in pubs,is brilliant.

going outside for a fag,has made me realise,us smokers are the nicest people.

it also got me thinking,where are all the non smokers.who were going to fill the pubs,when they didn't have to go home smelling of smoke,did yous miss us.

Sigh.... But you are missing the point! This is about smoking and I am sure the smokers “Anecdote Factory” has been churning out reasons to carry on smoking for years. But the guy died because he was smoking his first cigarette of the day! If he hadn’t been a smoker, he may well have lived for a long time. The inquest agreed with the medical evidence that it was likely smoking related..

As I have said on previous threads on the subject, I hate smoking and although I do, I tolerate it from our friends when we are with them. (rephrased to avoid the puerile comments I received last time!) I don’t care a jot that they or anyone else has to stand out in the cold in the winter. Or in the rain or boiling sun! What I do care about is that they feel the need to attempt to destroy their lives in this way.

I would rather they didn’t, but it is their choice, I tell em my views once and the reason why I feel like that and then drop the subject. But I still worry when one of my best mates, who had a stroke about 4 years ago, still smokes like a trooper!

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By *aucy3Couple
over a year ago

glasgow

i'm getting the point loud and clear,if you do not see the relevance of my post,then your hatred of smoking,is blurring your vision.

it's not often i disagree with you iconic,but on this one i must.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What a bizarre way of attempting to put over your point of view over….!.

Your running off on all sort of tangents instead of addressing the one issue that is in question here….!.

We’ve already had a highly publicised programme of education in place regards the problems caused by passive inhalation for many years….

This is not a new issue we are discussing here,,,, its a well documented problem

A time has too come when action is required to prevent further abuse of children ,,,,,, and when words fail to get the message across,,,,, action must be taken…..

…..But hey,,,,, perhaps maybe there are people who still hanker for the good old days when we sent kids up chimneys!!!!!!

Your reply is like so many in this thread and has only served to reinforces the lack of solid argument against the issue of banning smoking in cars to prevent harm to children….. …..(Cause and consequence)

Again you’ve chosen to use analogy’s drawn off at tangents presenting example of other situations that also require dealing with in an appropriate manner to the problems they cause…..(Cause and consequence)

Its becomes a pointless debate when individuals attempt to combine other issues to provide reasons “NOT” to tackle the one in question ,,,, …..(Cause and consequence)

The way the most of laws are set does not allow for such measurers of introducing blanket legislation covering a multitude of unrelated wrong doings….. ……..(Cause and consequence).

So illustrating objection to the introduction of new legislation to help prevent vulnerable children escape the danger of passive smoking whilst in cars by sighting other misdemeanours does not serve the argument in the least

Car exhaust …..(Cause and consequence)

Domestic violence ……..( Cause and consequence)

Alcohol abuse…..…..( Cause and consequence)

Drug abuse……..…..( Cause and consequence)

Tobacco taxation/revenues…….…..( Cause and consequence)

Etc… etc…..

Yeah by all means lets deal with all of those issues too, but to present arguments NOT to introduce single legislation to protect kids travelling in cars based on separate issues like those is quite frankly, rather poor.!.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why not deal with the singular issue you mention: protecting children from smoking in cars.

It's quite a simple solution: ban smoking in cars whilst children are present in them. When they're not, let the adults smoke if they wish. There is no need for a blanket ban in all cars at all times, and let's not have the 'yeah but lighting up a cig is just as dangerous' argument. This is about smoking in cars whilst children are present, so let's stick to that eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tobacco revenue in the UK in 2010 was £6.8 billion.

NHS total budget for 2010 was £110 billion.

So.... smoking related diseases cost the NHS £1.7 billion in 2010 (according to the Daily Mail)....... That means that smokers ploughed £5.1 billion into the NHS.

Do the government really wanna stop smoking?"

Tks _adchick, saved me a trawl through Wiki, which would have probably earned me a castigation or two lol

I'm so glad that my filthy habit has paid for the medical care of so many other people. Aren't I a thoroughly thoughtful chappie eh?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yep another way to rip people off by fines next step they will ban smoking at homes etc and if caught you will go to court what a world we are living in lol .FUCKING POLICE STATE

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why not deal with the singular issue you mention: protecting children from smoking in cars.

Yep Wishy,,,... that sounds totally reasonable,,,...I've no objection to that as long as there is a decent punishment in place for those who don't abade to act as a further deterent!.....

Hey, I've seen a traffic cop picking his nose while driving... so yeah... what you suggest about lighting up seems reasonable.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

this is all well and good, but totaly uninforcable, its no good banning things unless you can enforce them, how many people do you see driving on the phone?

stop worrying about things that most sensable people already do, and worry about more police out there.

i drive thousands of miles a month and almost never see a police car! so how are they going to enfore it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"this is all well and good, but totaly uninforcable, its no good banning things unless you can enforce them, how many people do you see driving on the phone?

stop worrying about things that most sensable people already do, and worry about more police out there.

i drive thousands of miles a month and almost never see a police car! so how are they going to enfore it.

The real crime is against the child in the car which then makes it a matter for social services, and then we go down the road of Cleveland a few years back with overzealous social workers taking children away from families for the flimsiest of reasons.

The BMA report also suggested that the long term solution is re-educating smokers to the damage that smoking in confined places can do to a child's health, and that is how the upcoming campaign will be directed. That's something I support totally and I am a smoker. Legislating to make it a criminal offence doesn't address the issue of the parent ignoring the fact that his or her habit is harming the child.

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