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Trial of Marines

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

The trial of the three Marines for the murder of a fellow combatant caused much debate at work today. Was the action justified or was it in breach of all the prescriptive conventions and British integrity?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The trial of the three Marines for the murder of a fellow combatant caused much debate at work today. Was the action justified or was it in breach of all the prescriptive conventions and British integrity?"

live by the sword and all that

when terry waite was kidnapped in Beirut by hezbollah in 1987 a Russian diplomat was kidnapped at the same time

the Russians took matters into their own hands and metered out revenge their diplomat was released within a week terry waite spent 5 years being tortured

fight fire with fire i say.

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village


"The trial of the three Marines for the murder of a fellow combatant caused much debate at work today. Was the action justified or was it in breach of all the prescriptive conventions and British integrity?"

In combat yes i would agree that it's kill or be killed but the guy that was killed was an unarmed combatant in their custody wasn't he

Granted our captured soldiers may not have been shown any mercy but then what's the difference between us and the enemy?

So to answer the OP's post no the actions were not justified to murder an unarmed combatant that was in their custody

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

He was wounded and unarmed.

Article 3 of UN Convention (I) for the Amelioration of the Condition of the Wounded and Sick in Armed Forces in the Field deals with this situation. Great Britain is a signatory to the convention. You are correct in saying that we (in the UK) are different from those who deny these rights that's why the brave service men and women are in these places to ensure rights are protected such as the right of a 14 year old girl to attend school without being shot in the head. That is the difference.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"The trial of the three Marines for the murder of a fellow combatant caused much debate at work today. Was the action justified or was it in breach of all the prescriptive conventions and British integrity?

live by the sword and all that

when terry waite was kidnapped in Beirut by hezbollah in 1987 a Russian diplomat was kidnapped at the same time

the Russians took matters into their own hands and metered out revenge their diplomat was released within a week terry waite spent 5 years being tortured

fight fire with fire i say. "

I agree, this country is too soft now

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

Too soft in what way?

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By *thwalescplCouple
over a year ago

brecon

The only people who really know what happened are the Marines.

If he was still alive, and they knew it, when the trigger was pulled, then they should be jailed.

If they genuinely thought he was dead when the trigger was pulled, then I guess maybe they were just reacting to the situation, desecrating the body as they had seen the enemy doing to their fallen comrades.

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago


"The only people who really know what happened are the Marines.

If he was still alive, and they knew it, when the trigger was pulled, then they should be jailed.

If they genuinely thought he was dead when the trigger was pulled, then I guess maybe they were just reacting to the situation, desecrating the body as they had seen the enemy doing to their fallen comrades."
But we live by rules that are meant signify the difference from a coward who would carry out proxy bombings.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Well the government doesnt like blood (or responsibility) on its hands, does it, despite the fact that it's responsible for our part in any war? So when the media catches wind of war crimes, those responsible go on trial.

Welcome to the 21st Century, where investigative journalism is our greatest saviour/terrorist. And that is why the US is fond of media blackouts.

Better to be honest than be the greater of two evils!

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By *igSuki81Man
over a year ago

Retirement Village

Please excuse my ignorance on this as i have only read one news report on the trial but please correct me if im wrong -

3 marines are on trial for shooting a unarmed combatant. The marines had already disarmed the guy who was injured but not fatally so was alive.

The marines in question accidently recorded the event on their helmet cams and that is actually being shown as evidence in the trial showing what happened all be it in segments

The videos show the marines conversation and the execution of the unarmed man which is being presented in court as evidence against them -

Have i missed something anything ?

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Tim Collins said (amongst other things)

"f there are casualties of war then remember that when they woke up and got dressed in the morning they did not plan to die this day. Allow them dignity in death. Bury them properly and mark their graves."

Dignity in death.

Just because we sometimes face savages doesn't mean we should lower ourselves to their standards.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Of course shooting an unarmed man in custody is wrong

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow


"Of course shooting an unarmed man in custody is wrong "

Shooting anyone in custody is wrong ...... even if you think he's dead!

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By *heffmistressWoman
over a year ago

sheffield

Military medics are taught, and practice, to treat the most seriously wound first no matter whose side they are on. If indeed this enemy combatant was alive he should have received treatment, not a bullet in his chest.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Rules for war is a ridiculous concept, as is the idea of complying with them is what makes us different (read better), than our enemies. If you have rules for conflict you are making it a legitimate act and therefore condoning it. Yes there are circumstances where fighting is justified, a whole other debate, but to then limit yourself on what you will do to win/end it, is exactly why the most sophisticated military in the World spends years,billions and takes many needless casualties in fighting an adversary they could overwhelm easily and save lives on both sides if they weren't hindered by Rules of Engagement. Morality in war is something else.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling

An interesting book from Falklands War, the red and green life machine. Compare that to the alledged actions of these Marines.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It has been reported that the shooter said afterwards that everyone had to keep stum as he had just broken one of the Geneva conventions. He knew what he was doing was wrong, by law, so how can he let alone anyone on here justify his actions?

Eveyone reacts with disgust when we see or hear about it happening to a British soldier now people want to justify it by say, well they started it...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"An interesting book from Falklands War, the red and green life machine. Compare that to the alledged actions of these Marines. "

Give us a clue?

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By (user no longer on site) OP   
over a year ago

War is an art only practised by the human race no other being on the planet kills in the name of cause.

The men and women who are serving in the current conflicts in Afghanistan and Iraq are there because there are people who would enforce an existence that does not belong in a civilised environment i.e. the erosion of womens rights, religious and political intolerance and the despising of those with alternative sexual identities. To separate us from those people who would take the countries in question into the dark ages we have rules, tolerance and dignity. It seems if found guilty these soliders failed on all counts.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire


"An interesting book from Falklands War, the red and green life machine. Compare that to the alledged actions of these Marines. "

very good book..

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling


"An interesting book from Falklands War, the red and green life machine. Compare that to the alledged actions of these Marines.

very good book..

"

It was a very interesting read. Thought provoking and should British military at its best. I believe the military medical services have the same ethos

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By *emmefataleWoman
over a year ago

dirtybigbadsgirlville

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By *nnyMan
over a year ago

Glasgow

Life with a minimum tariff of 10 years + dismissed the service in disgrace.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Unless you've been in a similar situation of battle. I don't feel any of us can make any judgement on these soldiers. The steains and stresses are ones that we could never comprehend. I will forever be grateful for their efforts and sacrifices. I will never judge them. I will however question the reasons they are there in the first place.

Lest we forget.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Life with a minimum tariff of 10 years + dismissed the service in disgrace."

10 years is much too long, but im not surprised, they should have got two years at the most.

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By *adchickCouple
over a year ago

Cyprus


"Unless you've been in a similar situation of battle. I don't feel any of us can make any judgement on these soldiers. The steains and stresses are ones that we could never comprehend. I will forever be grateful for their efforts and sacrifices. I will never judge them. I will however question the reasons they are there in the first place.

Lest we forget."

This.

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By *tirling DarkCouple
over a year ago

Stirling


"Unless you've been in a similar situation of battle. I don't feel any of us can make any judgement on these soldiers. The steains and stresses are ones that we could never comprehend. I will forever be grateful for their efforts and sacrifices. I will never judge them. I will however question the reasons they are there in the first place.

Lest we forget."

He was subject to military law and was found guilty by a military court. He was therefore judged by the military and his previous combat tours were taken into consideration, otherwise his sentence would have been more severe. The judge advocate was clear in his summoning up. Other soldiers have been in similar positions and they have not murdered a wounded combatant. He clearly knew what he was doing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unless you've been in a similar situation of battle. I don't feel any of us can make any judgement on these soldiers. The steains and stresses are ones that we could never comprehend. I will forever be grateful for their efforts and sacrifices. I will never judge them. I will however question the reasons they are there in the first place.

Lest we forget.

He was subject to military law and was found guilty by a military court. He was therefore judged by the military and his previous combat tours were taken into consideration, otherwise his sentence would have been more severe. The judge advocate was clear in his summoning up. Other soldiers have been in similar positions and they have not murdered a wounded combatant. He clearly knew what he was doing."

Politics decide what comes to light and what doesn't. This has hapoened many times before but we are fed what are allowed to know. It is not a criticism of you. However you are naive to think this has not happened before. Worse things happen on a daily basis. Things that are not publicised... I will not judge. War changes everyone involved. Our brave men and women who go to war on our behalf, never come back the same. There is always a piece of their sole taken from them.... yes he may have known what he was doing. However after previous service and coming under attack 24/7 from people who will stop at nothing to kill you. You don't know how that changes your perspective of the rules of engagement or the Geneva convention. I can't personally judge them. The Royal Marines are one the most highly trained and revered fighting units on this planet. They see action in all parts of the world and in all environments. They have undoubtedly seen more action than any of us can comprehend. I will always hold them in high regard and will not judge this man for what he did. The effects of war on the mind is not an exact science nor never will be. That is just my view point. I am not criticising yours. Just throwing mine out there.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unless you've been in a similar situation of battle. I don't feel any of us can make any judgement on these soldiers. The steains and stresses are ones that we could never comprehend. I will forever be grateful for their efforts and sacrifices. I will never judge them. I will however question the reasons they are there in the first place.

Lest we forget.

He was subject to military law and was found guilty by a military court. He was therefore judged by the military and his previous combat tours were taken into consideration, otherwise his sentence would have been more severe. The judge advocate was clear in his summoning up. Other soldiers have been in similar positions and they have not murdered a wounded combatant. He clearly knew what he was doing.

Politics decide what comes to light and what doesn't. This has hapoened many times before but we are fed what are allowed to know. It is not a criticism of you. However you are naive to think this has not happened before. Worse things happen on a daily basis. Things that are not publicised... I will not judge. War changes everyone involved. Our brave men and women who go to war on our behalf, never come back the same. There is always a piece of their sole taken from them.... yes he may have known what he was doing. However after previous service and coming under attack 24/7 from people who will stop at nothing to kill you. You don't know how that changes your perspective of the rules of engagement or the Geneva convention. I can't personally judge them. The Royal Marines are one the most highly trained and revered fighting units on this planet. They see action in all parts of the world and in all environments. They have undoubtedly seen more action than any of us can comprehend. I will always hold them in high regard and will not judge this man for what he did. The effects of war on the mind is not an exact science nor never will be. That is just my view point. I am not criticising yours. Just throwing mine out there."

there was a great piece in the Birmingham mail this week by a marine who served with the marine in question.

its well worth a read.

as a ex royal marine i have nothing but pride in their actions i am sorry but i do not care for the taliban al queada etc as they have no regard for us.

they live by the sword therefore they can die by it.

as long as we do not intentionally harm or injure innocents in the course of our actions then i for one am happy.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago


"Unless you've been in a similar situation of battle. I don't feel any of us can make any judgement on these soldiers. The steains and stresses are ones that we could never comprehend. I will forever be grateful for their efforts and sacrifices. I will never judge them. I will however question the reasons they are there in the first place.

Lest we forget.

He was subject to military law and was found guilty by a military court. He was therefore judged by the military and his previous combat tours were taken into consideration, otherwise his sentence would have been more severe. The judge advocate was clear in his summoning up. Other soldiers have been in similar positions and they have not murdered a wounded combatant. He clearly knew what he was doing.

Politics decide what comes to light and what doesn't. This has hapoened many times before but we are fed what are allowed to know. It is not a criticism of you. However you are naive to think this has not happened before. Worse things happen on a daily basis. Things that are not publicised... I will not judge. War changes everyone involved. Our brave men and women who go to war on our behalf, never come back the same. There is always a piece of their sole taken from them.... yes he may have known what he was doing. However after previous service and coming under attack 24/7 from people who will stop at nothing to kill you. You don't know how that changes your perspective of the rules of engagement or the Geneva convention. I can't personally judge them. The Royal Marines are one the most highly trained and revered fighting units on this planet. They see action in all parts of the world and in all environments. They have undoubtedly seen more action than any of us can comprehend. I will always hold them in high regard and will not judge this man for what he did. The effects of war on the mind is not an exact science nor never will be. That is just my view point. I am not criticising yours. Just throwing mine out there.

there was a great piece in the Birmingham mail this week by a marine who served with the marine in question.

its well worth a read.

as a ex royal marine i have nothing but pride in their actions i am sorry but i do not care for the taliban al queada etc as they have no regard for us.

they live by the sword therefore they can die by it.

as long as we do not intentionally harm or injure innocents in the course of our actions then i for one am happy."

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