FabSwingers.com forum: Education education education

By *ackformore100 OP Man
11 weeks ago

Tin town

Teachers and teaching,

Such a sad indictment of our society at the moment. These are going to grow up and have kids of their own and who knows what they will be like.

Anybody teaching being affected similarly?

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/articles/cvgq98edegxo

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
11 weeks ago

Chichester

Security will become more prevalent for sure

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
11 weeks ago

Chichester

I have a trans friend that has been teaching for 15 + years They are about to leave profession as the hostile narrative in schooling is bad but add in her trans status and the abuse she now gets from some parents / kids call her a groomer / pervert / dangerous etc have pushed her over edge.

This is a person that is extremely gifted at communication and education instruction. That looks just like any other nornal person what a waste of skill set to be lost .

She says many teaching friends have quit and gone to work in otter professions as more time / less hassle better pay

Teaching is a time bomb about to go off in this country absolutely

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
11 weeks ago

Reading

I'm a trained teacher but no way would I go in one today.

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
11 weeks ago

Reading

Soon it will all be tablets and Ai and humans just there for crowd control.

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By *vaRoseWoman
11 weeks ago

Ankh-Morpork

Yes a friend is a primary headmistress, she leaves at the end of the school year. The pressure, the right wing narratives from parents and above, the lack of support for staff and students. The joy she once felt in her career have gone

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By *orthernJayMan
11 weeks ago

Hyde

^^ absolutely this ^^

I’ve three friends who are all teachers/educators, one took voluntary redundancy after 25 years, the university simply let him walk away!

The other two have literally had their joy of teaching eroded away via backstabbing management, belittled by parents who couldn’t parent to save their lives and children so ferule they can’t sit still for five minutes let alone be educated.

Sad times, it does make you wonder where the next generation are headed

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By *ndymac888Man
11 weeks ago

Dumbarton

It’s a complicated problem from every angle but I would definitely say it’s getting worse.

Kids are to protected from negative interactions with adults to the point almost all consequences have been removed.

Parents to vain and needy to risk spoiling their own positive reinforcement by actually teaching there kids the unpleasant truths of social interactions.

Teachers being restricted to only “positive help at all cost” nonsense, so they don’t give the lazy parent an excuse to show some scrutiny in there child’s shit personality development. That’s not including the ones that are only teaching because they need an audience to vent their own shite life philosophy to obviously.

Social media probably plays a big part as well it just makes them strangers to real life, wondering why they should learn anything when all some goofy nobody needed to do to get rich was prance about recording themselves being stupid

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By *orny PTMan
11 weeks ago

Peterborough

[Removed by poster at 17/05/25 12:35:49]

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By *orny PTMan
11 weeks ago

Peterborough

"[Removed by poster at 17/05/25 12:35:49]"

It speaks volumes now, how something a simple as a pencil sharpener can't be sold to under 16s.

Is it really that bad? The seventies eighties weren't ideal.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
11 weeks ago

East Sussex

This isn't new or recent unfortunately.

It's even worse in FE.

I never thought I'd see myself writing this but stricter discipline is required and the pupils who are unwilling to be educated should be allowed to work.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
11 weeks ago

East Sussex

The secondary school our children attended had an office for the semi permanent police presence. This was 20 years ago

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By *orbidden eastMan
11 weeks ago

london dodging electric bikes

"It’s a complicated problem from every angle but I would definitely say it’s getting worse.

Kids are to protected from negative interactions with adults to the point almost all consequences have been removed.

Parents to vain and needy to risk spoiling their own positive reinforcement by actually teaching there kids the unpleasant truths of social interactions.

Exactly this

I have taught in different countries and I would never teach in the uk. But good for the ones that do and try to make a difference. They are very admirable

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By *ivya15daniCouple
11 weeks ago

Reading

Its not about teaching only! Family is the core basically, we cant see a good future for nowadays teen-ager in particular (10% only behave manners).

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By *issilia AmoriWoman
11 weeks ago

St Albans/ North Welsh Borders

Yep, I'm an early years teacher and I'm finding that the curriculum isn't fit for purpose now as Children are developing faster and their cognitive processes are more complex now than they were 20 years ago. Which is to be expected.

We are also seeing more Children presenting with traits of SEN, but again the model of assessing and referring hasn't changed...

And the worst is the ridiculous demands from parents who think they can speak to staff like crap, how are the Children meant to learn if the see and hear the parents being twats

I literally had to tell a parent to find another setting this week after she demanded that her child not be changed by a male practitioner....I had to go through our HR before I responded to make sure I could, but yes, I did tell her that as we couldn't meet her needs then we would have to terminate her place....She was not happy and came in the next day to say she had changed her mind, her child was fine to be changed by a male - Surprise surprise

And I know the Government will change the barr with qualifications and ratios and other ridiculous things to keep us on our feet because we obviously don't do enough

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By *iltsTSgirlTV/TS
11 weeks ago

Chichester

"Yep, I'm an early years teacher and I'm finding that the curriculum isn't fit for purpose now as Children are developing faster and their cognitive processes are more complex now than they were 20 years ago. Which is to be expected.

We are also seeing more Children presenting with traits of SEN, but again the model of assessing and referring hasn't changed...

And the worst is the ridiculous demands from parents who think they can speak to staff like crap, how are the Children meant to learn if the see and hear the parents being twats

And I know the Government will change the barr with qualifications and ratios and other ridiculous things to keep us on our feet because we obviously don't do enough "

This government will be importing in teachers to fix the decline I guess

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By *issilia AmoriWoman
11 weeks ago

St Albans/ North Welsh Borders

We are also seeing more Children presenting with traits of SEN, but again the model of assessing and referring hasn't changed...

And the worst is the ridiculous demands from parents who think they can speak to staff like crap, how are the Children meant to learn if the see and hear the parents being twats

And I know the Government will change the barr with qualifications and ratios and other ridiculous things to keep us on our feet because we obviously don't do enough

This government will be importing in teachers to fix the decline I guess "

Nothing would surprise me

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By *obilebottomMan
11 weeks ago

All over

This has beem covered many times. Sadly in the majority of cases it comes down to the way children have been brought up, often by parents who behave the same or are too precious about their kids to see the wood from the tree. The only time that show any interest is to side with their kids against the school or a teacher instead of teaching their kids how to behave and respect. There are some amazing teachers that keep leaving as can't cope anymore. There are of course some amazing parents that are raising their kids to be amazing too, just fewer and fewer all the time. It can be an emotive and sensitive subject so no more comments from me but I certainly know where most of the blame lies. Who would want to be a teacher these days?

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By *VineMan
11 weeks ago

Just north of Bristol

I quit teaching years ago for exactly this reason.

I’d never go back. It’s a shame because on a good day it’s the best job in the world. Unfortunately there were fewer and fewer good days.

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By *ackformore100 OP Man
11 weeks ago

Tin town

It's really sad seeing some of the comments of good professionals who quit because it's so toxic. We reap what we sow and decades of appeasement and lowering standards and being fearful of applying the rules to everyone equly and fairly have led us here. I'm not convinced it's either left or right wing particularly just decreasing standards and feral kids having feral kids amongst probably 100 other reasons. Either way it can't be going in a good direction.

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

"Its not about teaching only! Family is the core basically, we cant see a good future for nowadays teen-ager in particular (10% only behave manners)."

For the first 5 years of a child's life, it's the home that is solely responsible. After that for the next 11-13 years, it's a joint effort between home and school.

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By *uffolkcouple-bi onlyCouple
10 weeks ago

Between Sudbury n Haverhill

Mr taught in a school near Brixton for a year. About 40% black, 40% Asian, 15% other and about 5% of what you might consider white British. The teaching staff demographics were quite similar.

The tension between the different races was obvious. There was close to zero integration, they only hung out with what you’d consider kids of the same cultural heritage.

The word “racist” was probably the most common word in the classroom used by pupils. They used it against each other and teaching staff. I had a very unruly student who was black tell me his parents are looking forward to meeting me at parents evening. I asked why that was and he said “because you're racist”. I said “how can they have that opinion of me when they have never met me?” He said “cos you’re white”

The punishment system basically encouraged kids to double down if they were reprimanded. For example failing to attend a detention meant they were excluded for 3 days. That was considered a reward, not a punishment.

I never witnessed violence against a teacher but I heard it had happened to other teachers.

I had students in my class that didn’t do a stroke of work for the whole school year. Nothing ever happened when this was reported. My line manager told me to just let them carry on.

I don’t think the system we have is working. The good kids are bullied and scared to go to school and the staff are powerless to help them. The really bad ones do whatever they like and usually have a diagnosis that protects them from consequences.

So many kids finish school scared mentally by their experiences and many come out with next to no qualifications because their aspirations are to be a scrounger like their parents.

I guess my message here is all about the lack of consequences. If they attack a teacher it’s the teachers fault. If they attack another pupil is play that got out of hand. And when they know there’s a free ride waiting for them for the rest of their lives, why work hard to get qualifications? Just work hard to get a mental health diagnosis and you’re set for life.

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By *ambertMan
10 weeks ago

Cheltenham

This is a massively complicated problem, with no simple solutions. It is also not a new issue. I remember the horrendous bullying from back in school, as well as students doing things like locking teachers in cupboards, and this was over 20 years ago.

Discipline is lacking across the board, but it won't be an all in solution. I have seen many people suggest a return of punishments such as the cane, but that was never a solution either, and simply institutionalised violence into people.

I think not only does the entire system require an overhaul, but the social outlook on what parenting is needs to be reassessed and adapted. God knows how.

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

Which country has got this one sorted? Nor America, that's for sure.

Is it time for smaller schools?

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By *uffolkcouple-bi onlyCouple
10 weeks ago

Between Sudbury n Haverhill

The solutions must be centred around consequences. The problem is there’s a lot of people in power that don’t believe in consequences.

The criminal justice system has the same issues, consequences are so easy to dodge.

Also much of the content of years 10 and 11 are useless for chunk of students, especially maths and science.

A first step forward would be to identify the kids who are academic and likely to do A levels and Uni, as opposed to the kids who’ll be order picking for Amazon, mechanics, builders, plumbers etc and have separate paths for each.

I also think teenagers shouldn’t be eligible for benefits when they live in the family home. They should be either working or learning something that will help them get work.

I hear talk there’s 100,000 jobs available in the care sector. And millions eligible for work who don’t apply for these jobs. Get those leaving school and college with next to no qualifications filling these jobs

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By *rHotNottsMan
10 weeks ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"The solutions must be centred around consequences. The problem is there’s a lot of people in power that don’t believe in consequences.

The criminal justice system has the same issues, consequences are so easy to dodge.

Also much of the content of years 10 and 11 are useless for chunk of students, especially maths and science.

I also think teenagers shouldn’t be eligible for benefits when they live in the family home. They should be either working or learning something that will help them get work.

I don’t agree with any of that^ . I think teachers should be nicer and a bit more patient and children shouldn’t have to worry about exams, scores are just adding to a mental health crisis in children with their focus on silly bits of paper / certificates. It’s all a bit updated.

In the 70s and 80s it was the other way round the teachers used to abuse the children physically mentally and emotionally, especially if they were black or a bit different. I wouldn’t want to go back to that system.

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

"The solutions must be centred around consequences. The problem is there’s a lot of people in power that don’t believe in consequences.

The criminal justice system has the same issues, consequences are so easy to dodge.

Also much of the content of years 10 and 11 are useless for chunk of students, especially maths and science.

I also think teenagers shouldn’t be eligible for benefits when they live in the family home. They should be either working or learning something that will help them get work.

Care jobs require police checks and those with behavioural problems wouldn't be welcome.

I reckon the nordic prison system and the 'Glasshouse' Correction Centre can teach the politicians a thing or two.

'not all wheels need to be soft, pneumatic and round in order to get the job done.'

Joined up thinking is sorely needed.

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By *ansoffateMan
10 weeks ago

Sagittarius A

I think teachers should blame parents. Parents should blame teachers. Schools should blame CAMHS. CAMHS should blame schools. Social services should have a meeting and then all the professionals gang together and blame the parents.

Then when something messed up happens and the police get involved they can have a nice tidy file, which shows that no one can be held accountable.

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

CAMHS?

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By *ackformore100 OP Man
10 weeks ago

Tin town

"This is a massively complicated problem, with no simple solutions. It is also not a new issue. I remember the horrendous bullying from back in school, as well as students doing things like locking teachers in cupboards, and this was over 20 years ago.

I think not only does the entire system require an overhaul, but the social outlook on what parenting is needs to be reassessed and adapted. God knows how. "

It is Complex and not new. But what is new is the scale of the problem, the influence of malign players and social media, access to "technology" and reaping the benefits of the softly softly approach for many years which has not worked well.

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By *randMrsShebaCouple
10 weeks ago

Birmingham

The teachers push communist woke left wing nonsense. And safeguard parents for criticizing that.

The schools waste tones of public money on things like pens and milk that just get wasted literally atleast £1 per kid every day wasted just on pens they throw away and milk they don't drink.

Headteachers are not old anymore they just elect young woke people.

The same woke policies allow the children to run amok with zero discipline and no consequences.

If they hit the teacher the teacher can't hit them back.

So that's why our kids are going to African boarding school to learn discipline, pursue better extra curricular activities and better grammar.

Primary Schools are just left wing brain washing camps. When they get to high school they know nothing about lining up or sitting upright. They all blame autism (I'm autistic)...but it's just a free pass for them these days.

They learn more LGBT than ABC.

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By *randMrsShebaCouple
10 weeks ago

Birmingham

Ofsted isn't interested in anything other than keeping records or right wing views.

Safeguarding is also more focused on right wing views with zero focus on hamas supporting lefties.

But sadly they have no interest on making sure they line up silently and behave.

You can forget teaching them martial arts or how to use dangerous machines...

They are not even potty trained or able to be sensible and focus..

If you see reception classes the children are over stimulated and distracted by toys....they are not interested in learning to read or maths.

Schools all over the world outperform ours just like or rubbish NHS.

We went woke we went broke

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By *uffolkcouple-bi onlyCouple
10 weeks ago

Between Sudbury n Haverhill

"The solutions must be centred around consequences. The problem is there’s a lot of people in power that don’t believe in consequences.

The criminal justice system has the same issues, consequences are so easy to dodge.

Also much of the content of years 10 and 11 are useless for chunk of students, especially maths and science.

I also think teenagers shouldn’t be eligible for benefits when they live in the family home. They should be either working or learning something that will help them get work.

By nicer, do you mean not scream so loud when a student kicks them in the head. I used to do schools transport and collected a kid at 9:30 once. When i asked why there was 3 police cars outside the school he told me a 17 lad had kicked a woman teacher in the face. He laughed as he told the story, and said it was “dead funny”

I agree exams don’t suit all which is why I said at 14, separate tracks should be available that suit the kids better.

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

Stop calling them students and call them what they are: Children. Children who are going to school. AKA school kids, who wear a school uniform and are expected not to attack school teachers or other school kids in school.

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By *he MinionMan
10 weeks ago

It was interesting to see Simon Reeves programme last night about Finland. Kids playing in the forest under supervision in temperatures going down to minus 30. When it gets to minus 30 we bring the kids in. And these were not primary school kids. These were pre schoolers. So under 5. Permitted to interact with the enviroment. Encouraged to jump and fall and roll around and help each other.

The teachers are trusted, supported and most importantly respected by the parents.

I applaud teachers in our school system in the UK. Must be one of the toughest jobs out there, we should be paying them more, like nurses and the police, not just banging pots in support now and then and wondering why our society is falling apart around us.

(Pushes the soapbox back into the corner)

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By *issilia AmoriWoman
10 weeks ago

St Albans/ North Welsh Borders

"CAMHS?"

Children and adolescent mental health services.

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By *avie65Man
10 weeks ago

In the west.

There are so many valid points in this thread. I worked in FE for nearly 20 years. When I was offered voluntary redundancy I jumped at it. The FE sector is seeing the results of many years of under funding and the lack of discipline in schools and it will only get worse.

Students in FE are allowed to dictate the curriculum. If they didn’t like a subject they just complained about it until it was dropped.

Most of my managers hadn’t been in a classroom for many years and the majority of the SMT/EMT or whatever they are calling theirselves now had never been in a classroom but thought they knew what students needed.

As a result of underfunding I had a student in their very late teens who couldn’t add 1 on to 16 or divide the answer in half without the aid of a calculator.

I think education is the life blood of society but I fear for it and what will happen in the next few years. 😢

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

"CAMHS?

Children and adolescent mental health services."

40 years too late for me.

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

"Security will become more prevalent for sure "

Copying the American disaster is not a good idea. We need to copy the Germans.

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By *inkPocketRocketWoman
10 weeks ago

Cambs/Beds/Herts

Wow, some very valid points in this thread - and some appalling ones too!

Education in the UK is a highly complex matter with poor outcomes for both teachers and children (16 and under). Ultimately, the system is the problem.

But that aside, children model the behaviours they learn from adults at home, from their peers, and from environmental influences such as media. If you’re under the impression that children learn these behaviours from teachers, then you should try spending a week in education before quoting such rubbish. If we want different behaviours from children then we need to control their exposure to problematic influences and the truth is, more often than not, those influences include the parents. We also need to get honest about and respond effectively to, the national pandemic that is generational trauma.

The bottom line is that children to adult aggression, abuse, disobedience and violence in schools is a societal issue and not just an educational one. Discipline and behaviour is modelled elder to younger.

…steps down from soapbox….

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By *issilia AmoriWoman
10 weeks ago

St Albans/ North Welsh Borders

"CAMHS?

Children and adolescent mental health services.

40 years too late for me."

I hear you and it's a shit system, lots of Children are falling through the system because it takes to long to access support and if you live in a rural area chances are there you'd have to go miles away, in my area you're looking at 30/40 mile away

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By *dventurous biMan
10 weeks ago

tesside

[Removed by poster at 21/05/25 06:53:00]

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By *ripfillMan
10 weeks ago

Paris, New York, Hong Kong and Havant

"I have a trans friend that has been teaching for 15 + years They are about to leave profession as the hostile narrative in schooling is bad but add in her trans status and the abuse she now gets from some parents / kids call her a groomer / pervert / dangerous etc have pushed her over edge.

This is a person that is extremely gifted at communication and education instruction. That looks just like any other nornal person what a waste of skill set to be lost .

She says many teaching friends have quit and gone to work in otter professions as more time / less hassle better pay

Teaching is a time bomb about to go off in this country absolutely "

How have we evolved into this “hate” and prejudice society …

I share your comments here , such talent irrespective of personal life style is not being abject do something she is good at and gets fulfilment from but the students are further missing out

Yes I agree time bomb …. Ticking ..

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By *ripfillMan
10 weeks ago

Paris, New York, Hong Kong and Havant

I get sometimes asked as a guest speaker or lecture to talk about my subject area.

One thing I cannot abide is bad manners

It seems these days that a lot of students a very little respect for their teachers which is very sad because there is from respect a form of healthy control from which learning can take place,

No one can enjoy concentrating when the hub hub of noise is overpowering

I was sat at the back of hall recently trying to listen to a teacher - but the students were like a pack of wild animals. The teacher had no chance was such a shame.

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By (user no longer on site)
10 weeks ago

One word discipline

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By *layfulGent40sMan
10 weeks ago

Cheltenham

From my experience, behaviour of the young people is so varied from school to school, I find it amazing how the behaviour management is so varied across schools. Now there is an argument about the area of which the school is located but I don't believe this is a factor. The education system is the problem also the factors the young people are living with outside of the school.

Not all but parenting responsibility is a big player in this but unfortunately we find ourselves in a position that parents have be deprived of that education relating to psychological effects from parenting in the wrong way for that individual needs.

Crazy world we live in. School is actually a safe space for a lot of our young people.

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By *orny PTMan
10 weeks ago

Peterborough

the problem with this country is our national sport "pinball' this-is-not-our-problem-you-need-to-go-to-next-dept-and-back-again.

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