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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them." Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? | |||
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"We’re used to a level of trust in what we read and view. But now anyone can share a post, it gets reshared by your best friend’s aunt’s hamster and it’s true because I read it online. So people feel like they have all the facts to make a decision. Many have lost the art of discernment and skill of verification. " Hey now, don't be casting aspersions on Nibbles. That hamster knows his stuff. | |||
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"We’re used to a level of trust in what we read and view. But now anyone can share a post, it gets reshared by your best friend’s aunt’s hamster and it’s true because I read it online. So people feel like they have all the facts to make a decision. Many have lost the art of discernment and skill of verification. " Exactly this. It's summed up by that famous Abraham Lincoln quote "don't believe everything you read on the internet" | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? " They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true? | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true?" You believe the kids were sedated because you read it online. There was no proof. On the other hand there is online data that suggest the twins had hair samples taken and no sedative traces were found. But again that’s just from a newspaper. So where is the 100% factual proof you live and judge by This isn’t a who’s right and who’s wrong question. I genuinely want to know why you believe something that hasn’t been proven to be factual | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true?" Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect. | |||
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"Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect." That's a shining example of part of the problem. You're right, but that's an *entirely* different conversation to the one originally put forward. The addition of other, unconfirmed details turns it into a completely new topic, and when people judge the situation based on that topic instead of the one actually in front of them, the waters get increasingly muddier. | |||
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"Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect. That's a shining example of part of the problem. You're right, but that's an *entirely* different conversation to the one originally put forward. The addition of other, unconfirmed details turns it into a completely new topic, and when people judge the situation based on that topic instead of the one actually in front of them, the waters get increasingly muddier." It has been presented as fact for years. I know the media lies but when “reputable” sources are reporting it I tend to believe it but I am also able to hold my hands up and say I got it wrong | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true? Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect." Tbf I didn’t want to start a thread about the mccans more about why people believe things that aren’t proven. As a side note me and my sister along with thousands of other kids were left alone in Portuguese and Spanish resorts all the time before this happened. It was quite the norm in the 80s and 90s. And your second part that if you had done it you would get done for neglect is again from reading stuff online. Why you think a couple of middle of the road doctors are above the law is purely backside of the hysteria people make in comments online. If you left your kids in their room and went for drinks in let’s say your shed down the end of the garden that would be similar. As they were within the confines of the apartments they were staying in. Not on a jolly in town | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone " IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true? Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect. Tbf I didn’t want to start a thread about the mccans more about why people believe things that aren’t proven. As a side note me and my sister along with thousands of other kids were left alone in Portuguese and Spanish resorts all the time before this happened. It was quite the norm in the 80s and 90s. And your second part that if you had done it you would get done for neglect is again from reading stuff online. Why you think a couple of middle of the road doctors are above the law is purely backside of the hysteria people make in comments online. If you left your kids in their room and went for drinks in let’s say your shed down the end of the garden that would be similar. As they were within the confines of the apartments they were staying in. Not on a jolly in town " Are you a parent? Would you leave you kids unattended in a foreign country? I don’t take my eyes off my kids when abroad. I don’t think they’re above the law but I think this detail was swept under the carpet with everything else that was going on at the time. On the subject of the thread… we’re all guilty of it. Nobody fact checks every bit of information they are presented with. | |||
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"On the subject of the thread… we’re all guilty of it. Nobody fact checks every bit of information they are presented with." Believe it or not (and you probably won't :P) I actually do. I won't fully believe anything I'm told or read unless it's backed up by at least two other unrelated sources, and if I'm talking about it before that point I make sure to present it only as my opinion or an allegation rather than fact. | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true? Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect. Tbf I didn’t want to start a thread about the mccans more about why people believe things that aren’t proven. As a side note me and my sister along with thousands of other kids were left alone in Portuguese and Spanish resorts all the time before this happened. It was quite the norm in the 80s and 90s. And your second part that if you had done it you would get done for neglect is again from reading stuff online. Why you think a couple of middle of the road doctors are above the law is purely backside of the hysteria people make in comments online. If you left your kids in their room and went for drinks in let’s say your shed down the end of the garden that would be similar. As they were within the confines of the apartments they were staying in. Not on a jolly in town Are you a parent? Would you leave you kids unattended in a foreign country? I don’t take my eyes off my kids when abroad. I don’t think they’re above the law but I think this detail was swept under the carpet with everything else that was going on at the time. On the subject of the thread… we’re all guilty of it. Nobody fact checks every bit of information they are presented with." No we wouldn’t leave our kids. But it was common. And people weren’t as worried about their kids being taken from their complexes. Even today there are hotels offering baby knocking services . Where they can go for drinks at the bar and hotel staff check on the kids at various times of the evening. A big part of the belief is they were out drinking. When the reality is they wer 40 metres away inside a locked from outsiders complex. | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true? Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect. Tbf I didn’t want to start a thread about the mccans more about why people believe things that aren’t proven. As a side note me and my sister along with thousands of other kids were left alone in Portuguese and Spanish resorts all the time before this happened. It was quite the norm in the 80s and 90s. And your second part that if you had done it you would get done for neglect is again from reading stuff online. Why you think a couple of middle of the road doctors are above the law is purely backside of the hysteria people make in comments online. If you left your kids in their room and went for drinks in let’s say your shed down the end of the garden that would be similar. As they were within the confines of the apartments they were staying in. Not on a jolly in town Are you a parent? Would you leave you kids unattended in a foreign country? I don’t take my eyes off my kids when abroad. I don’t think they’re above the law but I think this detail was swept under the carpet with everything else that was going on at the time. On the subject of the thread… we’re all guilty of it. Nobody fact checks every bit of information they are presented with." Bingo ..... | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true? Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect. Tbf I didn’t want to start a thread about the mccans more about why people believe things that aren’t proven. As a side note me and my sister along with thousands of other kids were left alone in Portuguese and Spanish resorts all the time before this happened. It was quite the norm in the 80s and 90s. And your second part that if you had done it you would get done for neglect is again from reading stuff online. Why you think a couple of middle of the road doctors are above the law is purely backside of the hysteria people make in comments online. If you left your kids in their room and went for drinks in let’s say your shed down the end of the garden that would be similar. As they were within the confines of the apartments they were staying in. Not on a jolly in town Are you a parent? Would you leave you kids unattended in a foreign country? I don’t take my eyes off my kids when abroad. I don’t think they’re above the law but I think this detail was swept under the carpet with everything else that was going on at the time. On the subject of the thread… we’re all guilty of it. Nobody fact checks every bit of information they are presented with. No we wouldn’t leave our kids. But it was common. And people weren’t as worried about their kids being taken from their complexes. Even today there are hotels offering baby knocking services . Where they can go for drinks at the bar and hotel staff check on the kids at various times of the evening. A big part of the belief is they were out drinking. When the reality is they wer 40 metres away inside a locked from outsiders complex. " Nearly 40 years ago, we would leave our children in the chalets at Butlins, making use of the chalet patrols. Years later when a bit more savvy, I shudder to think what might have happened to my children. What use is a patrol ? What quals or tendencies did the Patrollers have ? No one knew and no one asked. We were very trusting. It was commonplace. | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them." How do you know this…. Hang on you heard it on the internet ? The internet also tells us there is scientific tests that proof they never sedated any of the children. So we are back to good old fashioned bias. We choose whatever we want to believe based on what’s already inside our minds - fear insecurity anger etc or fluffy marshmallows & meadows. People jump on the bandwagon that likes to see the worst in other people normally because they feel bad about themselves. | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. How do you know this…. Hang on you heard it on the internet ? The internet also tells us there is scientific tests that proof they never sedated any of the children. So we are back to good old fashioned bias. We choose whatever we want to believe based on what’s already inside our minds - fear insecurity anger etc or fluffy marshmallows & meadows. People jump on the bandwagon that likes to see the worst in other people normally because they feel bad about themselves. " This is a good point. During the aftermath of Covid vax vs anti vax got very nasty. Both sides had fears so used name calling (sheep, tin hat, Facebook doctors etc) to help their minds believe they were doing the right thing. | |||
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"It would benice if this topic expanded a bit. People seem to be jumping on the McCann bandwagon but perhaps that is not altogether surprising as it was featured by the OP." The jay slater bandwagon was a recent one. So many bizarre things made up and suggested that people genuinely thought we’re all facts. Where the reality was this lad had probably a great story to tell in future years if he hadn’t slipped off a cliff. If he had walked a slightly different way no one would know who he is and he would be telling his friends at home that he had a mad night out . | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. How do you know this…. Hang on you heard it on the internet ? The internet also tells us there is scientific tests that proof they never sedated any of the children. So we are back to good old fashioned bias. We choose whatever we want to believe based on what’s already inside our minds - fear insecurity anger etc or fluffy marshmallows & meadows. People jump on the bandwagon that likes to see the worst in other people normally because they feel bad about themselves. " Try reading the rest of the thread. | |||
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"Kate and Gerry sedated their kids and left them unattended in a foreign country. Whatever happened the blame still lies with them. Thank you This is a great example of someone believing something that has no facts. Why do you believe this when there is zero evidence ? They are the facts. What did I say that isn’t true? Actually I apologise. The police said that they sedated their kids but hasn’t been proven true. I still stand by my original comment that the shouldn’t have left their kids unattended in a foreign country. If I did that in my own home to go for a few drinks with friends I’d be charged with neglect. Tbf I didn’t want to start a thread about the mccans more about why people believe things that aren’t proven. As a side note me and my sister along with thousands of other kids were left alone in Portuguese and Spanish resorts all the time before this happened. It was quite the norm in the 80s and 90s. And your second part that if you had done it you would get done for neglect is again from reading stuff online. Why you think a couple of middle of the road doctors are above the law is purely backside of the hysteria people make in comments online. If you left your kids in their room and went for drinks in let’s say your shed down the end of the garden that would be similar. As they were within the confines of the apartments they were staying in. Not on a jolly in town Are you a parent? Would you leave you kids unattended in a foreign country? I don’t take my eyes off my kids when abroad. I don’t think they’re above the law but I think this detail was swept under the carpet with everything else that was going on at the time. On the subject of the thread… we’re all guilty of it. Nobody fact checks every bit of information they are presented with. No we wouldn’t leave our kids. But it was common. And people weren’t as worried about their kids being taken from their complexes. Even today there are hotels offering baby knocking services . Where they can go for drinks at the bar and hotel staff check on the kids at various times of the evening. A big part of the belief is they were out drinking. When the reality is they wer 40 metres away inside a locked from outsiders complex. " It wasn’t common in 2007. I knew they were still in the complex. It still doesn’t make it right. | |||
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"The most recent bandwagon is the awful events in Southport. Despite denials people believed the social media claims about the name of the perpetrator. " Interestingly the true identity and the fake one were both online within hours people just chose believe it was the Syrian | |||
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"Social media is a big part of the problem, someone posts some idiotic theory and before you know it hundreds have reposted it. Some people serious need to delete social media and start living in the real world. The most recent one was the boy missing in tenerife it was obvious to anyone who has a brain and thinks logically that what happened to him was a tragic accident. we've all made stupid decisions at a younger age it was just sadly for him his cost him his life. This site is the only social media I have for a reason. social media was many years ago a great way to keep in touch with family and friends now it's being used for all the wrong reasons. " Not so much with Jay Slater but with the things designed to cause hate a division is a result of bot farming. One account posts something and it’s shared thousands of times within seconds and becomes fact and since Musk took over Twitter it’s getting worse. I’m a lefty but my “for you” page is just right wing propaganda and no matter how much blocking and muting I do it still comes up. | |||
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"The most recent bandwagon is the awful events in Southport. Despite denials people believed the social media claims about the name of the perpetrator. Interestingly the true identity and the fake one were both online within hours people just chose believe it was the Syrian" I suppose because it fitted neatly with their beliefs. | |||
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" It takes a lot of conscious effort to avoid jumping on bandwagons. " It does. I try to avoid any sort of wagon by being in the handcart to hell  | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. " This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. " Except they have always been allowed in Olympic sport. And don’t need people on the internet to tell them differnet . When you are part of the panel of the Olympics you can then have your say. | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? " It's rife in the lounge today with the parody threads. I guess they do it for shits and giggles | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. Except they have always been allowed in Olympic sport. And don’t need people on the internet to tell them differnet . When you are part of the panel of the Olympics you can then have your say. " First of all this is a forum so the entire point is people have their say….not sure what you think forums are for 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ And on the point I made…..this boxer has been banned for competing before because they failed a gender test (because they are genetically male). Those are fact’s confirmed by medical professionals by the way not my opinion or what I read somewhere. Strange you post about jumping on bandwagons but yet when presented with confirmed facts then I’m not allowed to have my say unless I’m on the Olympic panel. Also quite concerning and disturbing that you appear to defend a genetically confirmed male competing against women in a COMBAT sport. | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. Except they have always been allowed in Olympic sport. And don’t need people on the internet to tell them differnet . When you are part of the panel of the Olympics you can then have your say. First of all this is a forum so the entire point is people have their say….not sure what you think forums are for 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ And on the point I made…..this boxer has been banned for competing before because they failed a gender test (because they are genetically male). Those are fact’s confirmed by medical professionals by the way not my opinion or what I read somewhere. Strange you post about jumping on bandwagons but yet when presented with confirmed facts then I’m not allowed to have my say unless I’m on the Olympic panel. Also quite concerning and disturbing that you appear to defend a genetically confirmed male competing against women in a COMBAT sport. " You are stating they are a male (they are not) and that they shouldn’t be in the Olympics. We are saying when you are on the Olympics panel you can address this. Not that you can’t have an opinion . | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. Except they have always been allowed in Olympic sport. And don’t need people on the internet to tell them differnet . When you are part of the panel of the Olympics you can then have your say. First of all this is a forum so the entire point is people have their say….not sure what you think forums are for 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ And on the point I made…..this boxer has been banned for competing before because they failed a gender test (because they are genetically male). Those are fact’s confirmed by medical professionals by the way not my opinion or what I read somewhere. Strange you post about jumping on bandwagons but yet when presented with confirmed facts then I’m not allowed to have my say unless I’m on the Olympic panel. Also quite concerning and disturbing that you appear to defend a genetically confirmed male competing against women in a COMBAT sport. You are stating they are a male (they are not) and that they shouldn’t be in the Olympics. We are saying when you are on the Olympics panel you can address this. Not that you can’t have an opinion . " You say they are not male. So you are dismissing what the medical professionals have found after testing this person. As I said before they were tested and found to have XY chromosomes so that makes them as a matter of scientific fact a male. It’s not even debatable it’s an already proven fact after having been tested. While they may have lived as a female they have all the power, strength and muscle of a man so yes absolutely they should not be in a boxing ring with a woman You can say “not a male” as much as you want you are simply wrong. I have provided why I think they are male ……what is your basis of saying they are not male?? | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. Except they have always been allowed in Olympic sport. And don’t need people on the internet to tell them differnet . When you are part of the panel of the Olympics you can then have your say. First of all this is a forum so the entire point is people have their say….not sure what you think forums are for 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ And on the point I made…..this boxer has been banned for competing before because they failed a gender test (because they are genetically male). Those are fact’s confirmed by medical professionals by the way not my opinion or what I read somewhere. Strange you post about jumping on bandwagons but yet when presented with confirmed facts then I’m not allowed to have my say unless I’m on the Olympic panel. Also quite concerning and disturbing that you appear to defend a genetically confirmed male competing against women in a COMBAT sport. You are stating they are a male (they are not) and that they shouldn’t be in the Olympics. We are saying when you are on the Olympics panel you can address this. Not that you can’t have an opinion . You say they are not male. So you are dismissing what the medical professionals have found after testing this person. As I said before they were tested and found to have XY chromosomes so that makes them as a matter of scientific fact a male. It’s not even debatable it’s an already proven fact after having been tested. While they may have lived as a female they have all the power, strength and muscle of a man so yes absolutely they should not be in a boxing ring with a woman You can say “not a male” as much as you want you are simply wrong. I have provided why I think they are male ……what is your basis of saying they are not male??" You are quoting the Olympic banned iba leader not a medical spokesperson . This person has competed in every other female event possible including amateur and was allowed to fight in the India championships last year. But was only ruled out of the final after she beat a Russian in the semifinal. Which is when the Russian leader of the iba got involved . So I wont be basing any facts on what he has said | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. Except they have always been allowed in Olympic sport. And don’t need people on the internet to tell them differnet . When you are part of the panel of the Olympics you can then have your say. First of all this is a forum so the entire point is people have their say….not sure what you think forums are for 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ And on the point I made…..this boxer has been banned for competing before because they failed a gender test (because they are genetically male). Those are fact’s confirmed by medical professionals by the way not my opinion or what I read somewhere. Strange you post about jumping on bandwagons but yet when presented with confirmed facts then I’m not allowed to have my say unless I’m on the Olympic panel. Also quite concerning and disturbing that you appear to defend a genetically confirmed male competing against women in a COMBAT sport. You are stating they are a male (they are not) and that they shouldn’t be in the Olympics. We are saying when you are on the Olympics panel you can address this. Not that you can’t have an opinion . You say they are not male. So you are dismissing what the medical professionals have found after testing this person. As I said before they were tested and found to have XY chromosomes so that makes them as a matter of scientific fact a male. It’s not even debatable it’s an already proven fact after having been tested. While they may have lived as a female they have all the power, strength and muscle of a man so yes absolutely they should not be in a boxing ring with a woman You can say “not a male” as much as you want you are simply wrong. I have provided why I think they are male ……what is your basis of saying they are not male?? You are quoting the Olympic banned iba leader not a medical spokesperson . This person has competed in every other female event possible including amateur and was allowed to fight in the India championships last year. But was only ruled out of the final after she beat a Russian in the semifinal. Which is when the Russian leader of the iba got involved . So I wont be basing any facts on what he has said " But again don’t let me push you off the bandwagon before you do some research on the current state of the iba and who their sponsors and friends are | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone IMO if this boxer can’t be defined as either male or female then the individual should not compete until verification is crystal. This boxer has been genetically tested and has XY chromosomes (male). While growing up as female from birth due to a medical condition they have all the physical attributes of a man so have no place in any women’s sport let alone a combat sport. Except they have always been allowed in Olympic sport. And don’t need people on the internet to tell them differnet . When you are part of the panel of the Olympics you can then have your say. First of all this is a forum so the entire point is people have their say….not sure what you think forums are for 🤷♂️🤷♂️🤷♂️ And on the point I made…..this boxer has been banned for competing before because they failed a gender test (because they are genetically male). Those are fact’s confirmed by medical professionals by the way not my opinion or what I read somewhere. Strange you post about jumping on bandwagons but yet when presented with confirmed facts then I’m not allowed to have my say unless I’m on the Olympic panel. Also quite concerning and disturbing that you appear to defend a genetically confirmed male competing against women in a COMBAT sport. You are stating they are a male (they are not) and that they shouldn’t be in the Olympics. We are saying when you are on the Olympics panel you can address this. Not that you can’t have an opinion . You say they are not male. So you are dismissing what the medical professionals have found after testing this person. As I said before they were tested and found to have XY chromosomes so that makes them as a matter of scientific fact a male. It’s not even debatable it’s an already proven fact after having been tested. While they may have lived as a female they have all the power, strength and muscle of a man so yes absolutely they should not be in a boxing ring with a woman You can say “not a male” as much as you want you are simply wrong. I have provided why I think they are male ……what is your basis of saying they are not male?? You are quoting the Olympic banned iba leader not a medical spokesperson . This person has competed in every other female event possible including amateur and was allowed to fight in the India championships last year. But was only ruled out of the final after she beat a Russian in the semifinal. Which is when the Russian leader of the iba got involved . So I wont be basing any facts on what he has said But again don’t let me push you off the bandwagon before you do some research on the current state of the iba and who their sponsors and friends are " Yeah ok then🙄🙄🙄 | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone " It's a very good question and thread op. Along with the prejudice toward people who use certain media sources... Mail, telegraph, BBC, YouTube, Facebook, x..the sun, the express, the mirror and so on are all criticised so makes you wonder where all the "special" people who are "right" are going to find their facts and information. | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP?" The Guinness Book of Records.  | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone It's a very good question and thread op. Along with the prejudice toward people who use certain media sources... Mail, telegraph, BBC, YouTube, Facebook, x..the sun, the express, the mirror and so on are all criticised so makes you wonder where all the "special" people who are "right" are going to find their facts and information. " Althoug not many examples have been posted. The ones that have and that people believe have all so far had no actual facts proven for them. Which so far is showing that people don’t check things out before stating facts. It’s a very good insight to how people think these days | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP?" The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP? The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline " But do you know how to identify an XY chromosome yourself, or would you just still be taking someone else's word for it as to whether or not it's present? | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP? The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline But do you know how to identify an XY chromosome yourself, or would you just still be taking someone else's word for it as to whether or not it's present?" Nope wouldn’t have a clue. Same as everyone else here. But no one has shown that the person does have both. And she is in the Olympics. So until proven otherwise she is in my eyes a female Olympian. | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP? The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline But do you know how to identify an XY chromosome yourself, or would you just still be taking someone else's word for it as to whether or not it's present? Nope wouldn’t have a clue. Same as everyone else here. But no one has shown that the person does have both. And she is in the Olympics. So until proven otherwise she is in my eyes a female Olympian. " So bandwagon jumping is okay if you can reason it out logically without seeing actual hard facts then? Or, if you don't want to call it bandwagon jumping, just accepting the previously widely accepted majority point of view? | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP? The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline But do you know how to identify an XY chromosome yourself, or would you just still be taking someone else's word for it as to whether or not it's present? Nope wouldn’t have a clue. Same as everyone else here. But no one has shown that the person does have both. And she is in the Olympics. So until proven otherwise she is in my eyes a female Olympian. So bandwagon jumping is okay if you can reason it out logically without seeing actual hard facts then? Or, if you don't want to call it bandwagon jumping, just accepting the previously widely accepted majority point of view?" The bandwagon on this is that everyone presumed she was a male or trans or has an xy chromosome . You can’t jump on a bandwagon of something that is already happening such as she’s competing in the Olympics as a female. Because that is a fact. She is competing in the female Olympics | |||
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"The bandwagon on this is that everyone presumed she was a male or trans or has an xy chromosome . You can’t jump on a bandwagon of something that is already happening such as she’s competing in the Olympics as a female. Because that is a fact. She is competing in the female Olympics " But in Russia she was disqualified from competing in the female competitions because of elevated testosterone and XY chromosomes. So at that point the facts as aligned in that version said she was not a female athlete. Was her gender reinstated on acceptance to the Olympics? When the IBO was coming under fire or when it was dismissed? (For clarity, as far as I'm concerned, both women disqualified in Russia last year are absolutely women.) | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP? The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline But do you know how to identify an XY chromosome yourself, or would you just still be taking someone else's word for it as to whether or not it's present? Nope wouldn’t have a clue. Same as everyone else here. But no one has shown that the person does have both. And she is in the Olympics. So until proven otherwise she is in my eyes a female Olympian. So bandwagon jumping is okay if you can reason it out logically without seeing actual hard facts then? Or, if you don't want to call it bandwagon jumping, just accepting the previously widely accepted majority point of view?" Not sure I saw the op say that. | |||
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"Not sure I saw the op say that. " What do you call making what you believe to be a reasonable judgement based on the evidence in front of you? | |||
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"The bandwagon on this is that everyone presumed she was a male or trans or has an xy chromosome . You can’t jump on a bandwagon of something that is already happening such as she’s competing in the Olympics as a female. Because that is a fact. She is competing in the female Olympics But in Russia she was disqualified from competing in the female competitions because of elevated testosterone and XY chromosomes. So at that point the facts as aligned in that version said she was not a female athlete. Was her gender reinstated on acceptance to the Olympics? When the IBO was coming under fire or when it was dismissed? (For clarity, as far as I'm concerned, both women disqualified in Russia last year are absolutely women.)" The iba only banned her once she beat a Russian in the semi finals of the Indian championship. That is a fact it’s on the results. She was perfectly fine until that moment. The Russian IBA president then ruled she was a man and hasn’t published the results. So no she didn’t lose her gender. Which is why she has competed in other competitions since and now at the Olympics. Could you possibly provide the data and the results that the Russian iba president said he has? | |||
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"The bandwagon on this is that everyone presumed she was a male or trans or has an xy chromosome . You can’t jump on a bandwagon of something that is already happening such as she’s competing in the Olympics as a female. Because that is a fact. She is competing in the female Olympics But in Russia she was disqualified from competing in the female competitions because of elevated testosterone and XY chromosomes. So at that point the facts as aligned in that version said she was not a female athlete. Was her gender reinstated on acceptance to the Olympics? When the IBO was coming under fire or when it was dismissed? (For clarity, as far as I'm concerned, both women disqualified in Russia last year are absolutely women.) The iba only banned her once she beat a Russian in the semi finals of the Indian championship. That is a fact it’s on the results. She was perfectly fine until that moment. The Russian IBA president then ruled she was a man and hasn’t published the results. So no she didn’t lose her gender. Which is why she has competed in other competitions since and now at the Olympics. Could you possibly provide the data and the results that the Russian iba president said he has? " You can also look at the iba Twitter feed where they have retweeted umer Kremlev called the athlete a pig that belongs on a pig farm. I’m sure a well established pro sports outfit wouldn’t be posting that on their account if they were professional | |||
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"The iba only banned her once she beat a Russian in the semi finals of the Indian championship. That is a fact it’s on the results. She was perfectly fine until that moment. The Russian IBA president then ruled she was a man and hasn’t published the results. So no she didn’t lose her gender. Which is why she has competed in other competitions since and now at the Olympics. Could you possibly provide the data and the results that the Russian iba president said he has?" Nope. Can you provide the data the Olympic committee used to determine she is female? Again, for clarity, these women are women. I'm just trying to point out that making what you feel is a reasonable judgement based on the evidence in front of you doesn't often come with cold hard confirmed right before your face facts. You said she is a woman because the Olympic committee say she is. You obviously have more faith in them than the Russian committees. Which is absolutely a reasonable approach given what has been witnessed. But. Have you delved into the bias and methods of both sides to get the 100% proven facts as to which is more reliable as a source? Do you have absolute proof beyond any shadow of a doubt? Or are you simply making what you believe to be a reasonable judgement given the information available to you? | |||
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"The iba only banned her once she beat a Russian in the semi finals of the Indian championship. That is a fact it’s on the results. She was perfectly fine until that moment. The Russian IBA president then ruled she was a man and hasn’t published the results. So no she didn’t lose her gender. Which is why she has competed in other competitions since and now at the Olympics. Could you possibly provide the data and the results that the Russian iba president said he has? Nope. Can you provide the data the Olympic committee used to determine she is female? Again, for clarity, these women are women. I'm just trying to point out that making what you feel is a reasonable judgement based on the evidence in front of you doesn't often come with cold hard confirmed right before your face facts. You said she is a woman because the Olympic committee say she is. You obviously have more faith in them than the Russian committees. Which is absolutely a reasonable approach given what has been witnessed. But. Have you delved into the bias and methods of both sides to get the 100% proven facts as to which is more reliable as a source? Do you have absolute proof beyond any shadow of a doubt? Or are you simply making what you believe to be a reasonable judgement given the information available to you?" I’m more than happy to be told otherwise . Like I said I can only go with the facts. Russian hearsay is not a fact . If the next competition find otherwise and publish the data then great I’ll happily stand by it and accept that. But as it stands she’s a female Olympian and has been a female boxer since she was 8 . | |||
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"I’m more than happy to be told otherwise . Like I said I can only go with the facts. Russian hearsay is not a fact . If the next competition find otherwise and publish the data then great I’ll happily stand by it and accept that. But as it stands she’s a female Olympian and has been a female boxer since she was 8 . " What facts? All you have is the results of other governing bodies decisions, you know nothing of the actual biology, nor necessarily the criteria or stringency of each governing body to decide that. Russian hearsay had her disqualified from a world title, that's pretty effective for hearsay. She's being pretty heavily crucified from what I can see. When enough people agree with that does it gain enough authority to become a fact? As long as the next body that says no isn't Russian does it suddenly count? As actual facts go, pretty much everyone doesn't know shit. People make judgements based on their own biases and reasoning of the information in front of them. | |||
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"Why do people jump on the band waggon so much more these days ? I’m sure it was nowhere near as bad in the last century. Is it social media being more easy to fool people or is it the constant news thats available 24 hours a day. Or are people just becoming too lazy to do their own research and believe a a quick headline ? The first band waggon jumping. I can think of was Madeline McCanns parents. Everyone just jumped against them because of the stories from the new 24 hour media and new website Facebook. Then there has been all kinds of things people just jump on and believe after reading a headline . The amount of people that make comment without reading a story scares me. (Most recently the female boxer that people think is a transgender female /man). Would love to hear from people who only read headlines and make their decisions and comments based on that alone " Dont think social media is conning people tbh.use genocide in gaza as an example.folk i actually know didnt used to buy a paper or watch the news the think the isreal/gaza conflict started last october anyone with a little bit of knowledge of history can tell you the nakba happened in 1948 after isreal was kindly gifted land by the palestinan people courtesy of uk/us even if you dont know something check it off diffrent sources to make sure ypur getting the truth folk are either lazy or just dont give a fuck first thing they read they take as gospel was actually stunned ie the lack of knowledge about important things like wars and our history | |||
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"I think the bombarding of information and niches they come in - it's more than our poor primate brains can handle. People think access to writing means knowledge or intelligence rather than data (or something less than data) and are desperate to be noticed or feel important." Its not about being intelligent its about seperating fact from fiction amd the data your looking at proccesing it and coming to a correct conclusion i wouldnt say im intelligent but im street smart can tell when something seems like bullshit i can research the data to get the too the outcome | |||
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"I think the bombarding of information and niches they come in - it's more than our poor primate brains can handle. People think access to writing means knowledge or intelligence rather than data (or something less than data) and are desperate to be noticed or feel important. Its not about being intelligent its about seperating fact from fiction amd the data your looking at proccesing it and coming to a correct conclusion i wouldnt say im intelligent but im street smart can tell when something seems like bullshit i can research the data to get the too the outcome" Hmm. I think intelligence is an important part of the process. | |||
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"I think the bombarding of information and niches they come in - it's more than our poor primate brains can handle. People think access to writing means knowledge or intelligence rather than data (or something less than data) and are desperate to be noticed or feel important. Its not about being intelligent its about seperating fact from fiction amd the data your looking at proccesing it and coming to a correct conclusion i wouldnt say im intelligent but im street smart can tell when something seems like bullshit i can research the data to get the too the outcome" And out of interest from where do you assimilate the data you speak of? | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP? The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline But do you know how to identify an XY chromosome yourself, or would you just still be taking someone else's word for it as to whether or not it's present? Nope wouldn’t have a clue. Same as everyone else here. But no one has shown that the person does have both. And she is in the Olympics. So until proven otherwise she is in my eyes a female Olympian. So bandwagon jumping is okay if you can reason it out logically without seeing actual hard facts then? Or, if you don't want to call it bandwagon jumping, just accepting the previously widely accepted majority point of view? The bandwagon on this is that everyone presumed she was a male or trans or has an xy chromosome . You can’t jump on a bandwagon of something that is already happening such as she’s competing in the Olympics as a female. Because that is a fact. She is competing in the female Olympics " It’s actually hilarious that you display complete double standards but you can even see it yourself. You completely dismiss a governing body of boxing banning someone from competing with your only reasoning for it is that’s it’s some kind of Russian conspiracy. You have absolutely no clue (like anyone else) of the exact rights or wrongs of it but you “jump on the bandwagon” of dismissing it out of hand because it doesn’t fit your narrative. You are doing exactly what your original post claims others are doing. | |||
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"Where do you find your 100% provable and accurate facts OP? The only ones you can say for certain would be ones you have physically seen yourself in person . Other than that you could argue nothing else is a fact. My post was to see what people think is fact and have jumped on that bandwagon. And the posts so far show that people do just believe a headline But do you know how to identify an XY chromosome yourself, or would you just still be taking someone else's word for it as to whether or not it's present? Nope wouldn’t have a clue. Same as everyone else here. But no one has shown that the person does have both. And she is in the Olympics. So until proven otherwise she is in my eyes a female Olympian. So bandwagon jumping is okay if you can reason it out logically without seeing actual hard facts then? Or, if you don't want to call it bandwagon jumping, just accepting the previously widely accepted majority point of view? The bandwagon on this is that everyone presumed she was a male or trans or has an xy chromosome . You can’t jump on a bandwagon of something that is already happening such as she’s competing in the Olympics as a female. Because that is a fact. She is competing in the female Olympics It’s actually hilarious that you display complete double standards but you can even see it yourself. You completely dismiss a governing body of boxing banning someone from competing with your only reasoning for it is that’s it’s some kind of Russian conspiracy. You have absolutely no clue (like anyone else) of the exact rights or wrongs of it but you “jump on the bandwagon” of dismissing it out of hand because it doesn’t fit your narrative. You are doing exactly what your original post claims others are doing. " Do we have to go over the same circles as yesterday. This post was about why people believe certain things when there are no facts. There are facts in this case the person is boxing as a female in the Olympics(fact) There are no facts to support the banned IBA results. Just claims from their leader who called the woman a pig that needs to live on a pig farm on the IBA Twitter page. You have jumped on the bandwagon of something that isn’t based on facts. I want to know why you believe this , why do you believe a banned Russian governing body? | |||
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"I want to know why you believe this , why do you believe a banned Russian governing body? " Why do you believe an Olympic committee who outsource their testing standards to smaller bodies specific to the sport who are not demonstrably different to the IBA prior to this kickoff? | |||
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"The earth is flat " That's Earth Shaming .... | |||
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"I want to know why you believe this , why do you believe a banned Russian governing body? Why do you believe an Olympic committee who outsource their testing standards to smaller bodies specific to the sport who are not demonstrably different to the IBA prior to this kickoff?" I said to you before I can’t say for sure . But the she has been in every competition possible as a female before that semifinal happened. Through lots of tests and only then it was a problem. My reasons for believing the Olympics is they have an ethical code which is backed by hundreds of countries. The IBA does not. And is breaking rules and ethics set up by the vast majority of the world. Hence why most counties now boycott the IBA. And for a leader of a governing body to publicly shame athletes and name call them doesn’t bode well for its integrity Why are you on the she’s a man bandwagon ? What drives you to believe this ? | |||
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"I want to know why you believe this , why do you believe a banned Russian governing body? Why do you believe an Olympic committee who outsource their testing standards to smaller bodies specific to the sport who are not demonstrably different to the IBA prior to this kickoff? I said to you before I can’t say for sure . But the she has been in every competition possible as a female before that semifinal happened. Through lots of tests and only then it was a problem. My reasons for believing the Olympics is they have an ethical code which is backed by hundreds of countries. The IBA does not. And is breaking rules and ethics set up by the vast majority of the world. Hence why most counties now boycott the IBA. And for a leader of a governing body to publicly shame athletes and name call them doesn’t bode well for its integrity Why are you on the she’s a man bandwagon ? What drives you to believe this ? " As I have repeatedly stated, she is obviously a woman. The point is simply the claim of only believing the facts. When in fact, it's simply interpreting the integrity and likelihood of the claims and opinions put in front of you. We have no access to any actual facts about any of it. | |||
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"WITCH...WITCH Nothing new here,, just people being people." I beg to differ. The vested interests easily influencing and manipulating others is as you say not new. The extremes, the ease, the ignorance and the technology being used, the reach is new. We can manage it better but are choosing not to. People like to be led. In a vacuum it's not a surprise those with extreme views have opportunities. | |||
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