FabSwingers.com forum: The demonisation of men.

By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Whilst lots of men don't need any help from the world proving that men can be evil, there does seem to be an unnerving groundswell of media and political agenda towards the demonisation of the male gender.

Let's not pretend that all men are angels far from it but on the flip side most men are decent law abiding citizens going about their lives hard working, loving and caring.

The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good.

As a small snapshot of this you only need to see the difference in attitude towards men and women on here.

Before people start jumping on the incel name calling,I love women I love my wife and daughter my sister's and friends.

What I'm trying to do is open a honest debate designed to challenge the current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims.

For true equality we should be striving for a view that everyone is treated with the same level of compassion regardless of gender.

And challenging stereotypes is important.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

Couldn’t agree more

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not much I can add to that really.

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By *jonesMan
over a year ago

Plymouth

This is a bit much for my noodle on a Tuesday morning

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Here’s an idea

Let’s not debate anyone that thinks all men are evil

Let’s call a spade a spade and refuse to associate with openly misandrist people

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

That about sums it up. I've always treated people as equals regardless of gender and yet random strangers who have never met me don't hesitate to tell me I need to do more.

I've always challenged the hate for whataboutery because dismissing it as something that people do when they feel challenged completely ignores the effect one persons actions can have on another.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

I rarely tune in to media, don’t read mainstream newspapers, haven’t watched TV, for many years. I don’t see this, but I don’t dispute it’s happening and do see it here.

I guess the tide is finally turning , often you need a big imbalance to gain some kind of balance.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

Without a doubt

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

there’s definitely a narrative across all kinds of media that men are bad.

It’s being pushed more and more.

News, media, tv dramas.

Add into that further demonisation of certain demographics of men. As a straight, white, middle aged, politically centrist Englishman to some I must be the devil incarnate

Anyway, not delving deeper than that as it’s a fuck site. I’m here for lovin’

I’ll save anything else for other forums!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It truly amazes me how much stick men get on here.

There are also “evil”woman in history

There are also not so nice woman in life whether that’s on here or in general

The constant putting down of men is tiring.

Regardless of sex, gender or sexuality the constant putting down of one or the other in here is becoming tedious.

I’m not sure what people are trying to achieve, make themselves seem to be better, justify something. I really don’t know.

What I do know is that if you tell someone they are worthless or not worthy or a piece of crap long enough they will end up believing it

Whilst piss poor behaviour should not be tolerated neither should the putting down of others

Just my thoughts

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By * and R cple4Couple
over a year ago

swansea

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

Without a doubt

Agree as well.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It is a strange one this and is something perpetuated by the press to make stories.

Neither of these examples below are right and the twa*ts need locking away forever but look at the two stories.

A policeman abducts ,rapes and kills a woman. The story is still going on today and women are told not to approach single police officers. They make out as if they are all murderers and rapists.

A nurse murders and attempts to murder numerous babies. No fall out for anyone else and all nurses are angels' who deserve our support.

There is good and evil in anyone or any organisation but never be led by bad press.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think lots of men get upset and offended at women’s realities and experiences with men. The fact remains that women walking the street late at night being approached by a man don’t know they’re a good man. And women unfortunately, because of men, need to be aware and vigilant and all these other things just to keep themselves safe.

I’ve never found it offensive or demonising to accept that the reality is that when it comes to the threat of VAWG, which is killing women, men are overwhelmingly the perpetrators. That means that my existence as a man in some spaces will be treated with caution by women. I’m not crying about it. Or undermining their experiences and their efforts for safety just because I believe I’m nice and harmless. VAWG is so bad that I honestly think that we can’t be afraid to have uncomfortable conversations with men and educate men about the threats that are facing women. And when we do that, we should remind men, tackling it is not about us and our feelings, it’s about the safety of women and girls.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Here’s an idea

Let’s not debate anyone that thinks all men are evil

Let’s call a spade a spade and refuse to associate with openly misandrist people "

This is a HUGELY dangerous idea and serves as nothing more than cancelling. This in itself is pretty evil.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And on fab specifically, There’s a whole lot of men that take women talking about their experiences and about misogyny WAY too personally. Which is not helpful. Labelling them angry man hating feminists. Not helpful and an entirely based on their own anxiety about themselves.

Being secure in your identity as a man is not being threatened by any of these things. None of these conversations pose a threat to me or my masculinity. The difference? Not talking about misogyny kills women.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

Without a doubt

Agree as well."

my experience. there are not very many toxic women on fab, but they sure make up for low numbers

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

Prime example of a misogynistic quote with nothing more to back it up than an unsubstantiated 'thought'

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

On the forums or the site in general?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 08:56:20]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think lots of men get upset and offended at women’s realities and experiences with men. The fact remains that women walking the street late at night being approached by a man don’t know they’re a good man. And women unfortunately, because of men, need to be aware and vigilant and all these other things just to keep themselves safe.

I think it’s an odd world we live in where men are told to open up more and talk about our feelings, but at the same time remember that your feelings don’t matter and you need to just live with the fact that you are auto labelled a predator because women’s feelings are more important then yours

And that doesn’t mean I disagree with the points, but it’s a very weird position to be in

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

Prime example of a misogynistic quote with nothing more to back it up than an unsubstantiated 'thought'"
It's not a quote. It's my personal opinion after almost 12 years on this site.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

I lived with one of those demonic men, and I don't believe they're all like him.

Even he changed when he met his new girlfriend, so maybe it was my fault.

We all have it in us to be toxic at times, it's being able to acknowledge that and try to be better that's important.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is very much giving “not all men” vibes.

But the most important thing is, yeah maybe not all men are like that. But some are. I guarantee if you ask any woman in your life, they know a man. They know/know of someone who has hurt someone, or has made someone uncomfortable, or hasn’t taken no for an answer.

So because of those some men, we have to be cautious. You might see it as unfair for painting all men with the same brush, but imagine how unfair it is to us to have to hold that brush.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And that doesn’t mean I disagree with the points, but it’s a very weird position to be in"

That is not what is happening at all. Men do need to talk about our feelings. And our feelings do matter. But I’d question why our feelings are so centred around women NOT FEELING SAFE and NOT BEING SAFE?

Again if you are a nice harmless guy that’s nice for you, how do women know that? Do they ignore their safety to make men feel comfortable and happy? Come on

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

I just really don't think "help I'm being demonised" is a good attitude to have on these issues.

If there are a lot of stories about men doing harm then it's because those men have done harm.

If you're not one of those men then criticism of men who do bad shit it isn't an attack on you personally. Just because you share a gender doesn't mean you have to consider yourself being lumped in with them.

Making the conversation about us poor men rather than the actual victims of male violence isn't very helpful.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This is very much giving “not all men” vibes.

So because of those some men, we have to be cautious. You might see it as unfair for painting all men with the same brush, but imagine how unfair it is to us to have to hold that brush. "

Real

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

I'm off out in 5 O.P. I agree with the sentiment of your post and I agree that in some communities, such as this one, there is a knee jerk reaction to any male behaviour and given the current climate following the #me too success , it isn't helped by the immediate and unquestioned behaviour of placing the woman in any situation as an automatic victim.

I think your post misses an important point that even decent , well brought up, thoughtful men, who 'love' their female family members have been socialised in the quagmire of patriarchal treacle and brought slowly to the boil without even realising they are being cooked.

It is possible to 'love' someone and to consider them inferior on gender lines at the same time.

I'm 2 mins late

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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

I don’t think that it’s a case so much of men being demonised, I think that it’s a case of men being held accountable for shitty behaviours and toxic attitudes. Maybe it’s a bit of a knee jerk response but if we don’t know who are the decent ones, then everyone is going to treat guys with a modicum of ‘let’s see’.

The thing is that *every* guy says that they’re not the problem (even the ones that are) so it’s hard to take people at their word. I personally know of several ‘popular’ men that have ignored consent, stalked, harassed or assaulted women.

It’s a simple equation, over 90% of women have been harassed or assaulted but no man knows of it happening.

I do think that part of the issue is the reactive assumption that as a result, all women are seen as victims and therefore angels. That’s not the case, many women are just as cavalier with consent as men can be but the result is usually potentially less violent

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"This is very much giving “not all men” vibes.

So because of those some men, we have to be cautious. You might see it as unfair for painting all men with the same brush, but imagine how unfair it is to us to have to hold that brush. "

I've been very trusting in situations where I probably shouldn't have been, because I don't believe all men want to harm us,and if we trust someone we shouldn't have we're called foolish, or naive.

I'll always tell my granddaughters to be careful when they are with strangers, or even men they're familiar with, because men can't be trusted.

One of them thought she was in trustworthy company once, and paid the price.

Why? Because some men can't be trusted.

If that's demonising men, then so be it. I'll treat everyone with caution until I feel I'm ok not too.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

I wish you luck in your endeavours. It's a noble goal but you won't ever get a true debate. The personal attacks start quite quickly, and the mocking insults kick in, usually by a mob to belittle the other side of the debate usually around the time "Friends" drop in.

Plus a debate won't ever change the minds of the "champions" of either side on here, they are too rigid and have their view rooted deep.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"I just really don't think "help I'm being demonised" is a good attitude to have on these issues.

If there are a lot of stories about men doing harm then it's because those men have done harm.

Making the conversation about us poor men rather than the actual victims of male violence isn't very helpful."

It's not only male on female either.

Men are also victims of unwanted behaviour by other men.

I can say oh I love men, which I do as I've been in the company of enough great men to know they exist, but I lived with someone who idolised me until we were married, then he slowly turned into a monster so I know to be wary now.

I'm not saying women aren't capable of being as monstrous, but I won't be meeting them and I have limited experience of them.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

Another thought is how do we know most men, or women, are decent etc?

How do we know how many cheat, lie, have been inappropriate with other people?

Perhaps, because women are seen as the weaker sex were also seen as the victims.

Maybe people read news articles that are mainly reporting male bad behaviour.

Maybe we're scared and self-preservation has kicked in.

Maybe I shouldn't post first thing in the morning when I'm not properly awake.

I think I'm waffling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Funny how quickly a talk about not demonising men turns into a talk about women’s safety

And it happens on the other side too, any talk about women’s issues very quickly turns into a talk about men

Just goes to show, neither side is innocent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny how quickly a talk about not demonising men turns into a talk about women’s safety

And it happens on the other side too, any talk about women’s issues very quickly turns into a talk about men

Just goes to show, neither side is innocent "

I think people, myself included are responding to the bit about men being called violent predators.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"Funny how quickly a talk about not demonising men turns into a talk about women’s safety

And it happens on the other side too, any talk about women’s issues very quickly turns into a talk about men

Just goes to show, neither side is innocent "

I don't think you can talk about something without the reasons why that something is.

Why do you think men are demonised, if they are?

Do you think women are frequently accused of certain behaviour that men aren't? Say, gold digging behaviour, for instance.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"Funny how quickly a talk about not demonising men turns into a talk about women’s safety

And it happens on the other side too, any talk about women’s issues very quickly turns into a talk about men

Just goes to show, neither side is innocent

I think people, myself included are responding to the bit about men being called violent predators.

Why else would people demonise men?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Funny how quickly a talk about not demonising men turns into a talk about women’s safety

And it happens on the other side too, any talk about women’s issues very quickly turns into a talk about men

Just goes to show, neither side is innocent

I think people, myself included are responding to the bit about men being called violent predators.

Why else would people demonise men?

I’m struggling with this one

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

Isn't it just media propaganda, that nobody really believes though? That is being stoked up by the likes of Andrew Tate etc. Nobody I know thinks all men are evil. I don't think there's been much change in attitude in the last few decades. And kind of see it as the male version that all women were sinful seductresses. That was total nonsense as is this. It only becomes true when masses of people believe it because it kind of suits them. Be it it's not my fault it's those nasty men to the I'm amazing I'm not like those nasty men.

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By *ealMissShadyWoman
over a year ago

St Albans/ Welsh Borders

Well said!

I think a responsibility needs to be taken by all, an awareness. Men and Women should call it if they see it, women should be able to feel safe from predators... as should men. It's a societal issue

The media does not help, it seems we are reading about sexual predator after sexual predator whether it be celebrities or people in authority or positions of power and more often than not the perpetrator is male....and it's not a woman's issue it's a societal issue and we all have a part to play.

I work for a local college and had conversation with the Safegaurding lead who was over sees safegaurding over three sites in different locations, she literally said "if I'm not looking at a dick in person or in a picture, I am trying to stop kids putting their dicks in places they shouldn't be" she said that lads think it's hilarious and the girls just accept that's what happens...and if that's reflective of the rest of the country then that is bleak.

I watched the Barbie movie recently and I believe everyone needs to see it, it sends a powerful message that everyone needs to hear it, whether your a man or a woman it will resonate and at last someone said it out loud

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

When a woman crosses the road because it's late and she's feeling scared, she isn't demonising anyone.

Men cross the road too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 09:39:57]

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By *inky ChefMan
over a year ago

Norwich

A 23 year old lead me on at work.

All went well, until probably the other young girls told her I'm too old/not cool enough.

Then suddenly I was told by my manager (woman) to live her alone. She didn't care about what happened, just assumed straight away Crazy Daisy is an angel. When I demanded investigation to clear my name, then I was told:

,,Nobody is taking this any further, but if you want an investigation, than they will defend Daisy as she is a student.''

The next few months she was coming to work there happily, even though she could have worked in 7 different places around the UNI.

I felt ashamed, because a 23 year old played me, and 70% of staff ate it up.

Now she's gone and it went back to normal. If someone wants anything from me at work, then they really need to spell it out and I'll be still doubtful.

After all she did that too.

It could have been any age of women. Nothing happened officially, but I've never been accused of anything like this in my life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This “we don’t know which the good ones are” is great because not only does it fit in here talking about men and women’s safety, it would fit in perfectly while talking about which black people to let in certain establishments in the 20s

And it was only recently we had a thread on knife crime where most people agreed it was unfair for stop and search to target black young men, even though the statistics show a disproportionate amount of knife crime is committed by that group. But apparently the statistics on men are strong enough to justify demonising them in society

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

It's funny how these threads always turn to the potential of every man being an aggressor.

Demonisation isn't restricted to violent offences.

There are many people and various outlets who just like to point out that men in general are useless in relationships, sexually inept and not worthy of praise.

This site is a prime example of the imbalance with certain behaviours or forum comments being excused or enabled because the offender is a woman.

Those same apologists are strangely quiet when a man is behaving in that manner or are in the frontline with their pitchfork.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The Office for National Statistics figures show every year that one in the three victims of domestic abuse are male equating to 699,000 men in 21/22 (1.671m women).

One in 6-7 men and one in 4 women will be a victim of domestic abuse in their lifetime.

Of domestic abuse crimes recorded by the police, 25% were committed against men.

Only 4.7% of victims of domestic abuse being supporting by local domestic services are men according to SafeLives data. This highlights how few men are being supported for local domestic abuse services.

66% of the men who call the ManKind Initiative helpline have never spoken to anyone before about the abuse they are suffering and 64% would not have called if the helpline was not anonymous.

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By *aribbean King 1985Man
over a year ago

South West London

While the world is full of bad and evil men, there's a whole lot of good and decent men who protect everybody else from

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By *ravelling_WilburyMan
over a year ago

Beverley

People can be dicks. It doesn't matter what's between your legs. Evil also manifests in different ways; it can be physical or cunning. It's easier to be cunning with a velvet glove, mind

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"This “we don’t know which the good ones are” is great because not only does it fit in here talking about men and women’s safety, it would fit in perfectly while talking about which black people to let in certain establishments in the 20s

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology "
this false equivalence is embarrassing. With stop and search we’re talking about harassing a group of people and we are talking about something that leads to, in some cases, violent encounters with police which traumatise groups of people where mental health support is not adequately able to support afterwards.

You’re comparing that, essentially, to women talking about their experiences on the internet and not clarifying that ‘men’ doesn’t mean ‘all men’.

You’re doing a lot of talking about the Black experience here and I’m not sure as to why you are doing so in *this* thread?

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By *imply DeeWoman
over a year ago

Wherever

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

I agree totally.

And what a thread OP!

and one more

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology this false equivalence is embarrassing. With stop and search we’re talking about harassing a group of people and we are talking about something that leads to, in some cases, violent encounters with police which traumatise groups of people where mental health support is not adequately able to support afterwards.

You’re comparing that, essentially, to women talking about their experiences on the internet and not clarifying that ‘men’ doesn’t mean ‘all men’.

You’re doing a lot of talking about the Black experience here and I’m not sure as to why you are doing so in *this* thread?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

BM. This is interesting.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I wish you luck in your endeavours. It's a noble goal but you won't ever get a true debate. The personal attacks start quite quickly, and the mocking insults kick in, usually by a mob to belittle the other side of the debate usually around the time "Friends" drop in.

Plus a debate won't ever change the minds of the "champions" of either side on here, they are too rigid and have their view rooted deep. "

never a truer word said!

It’s going to go circular until 175

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It's funny how these threads always turn to the potential of every man being an aggressor.

Demonisation isn't restricted to violent offences.

There are many people and various outlets who just like to point out that men in general are useless in relationships, sexually inept and not worthy of praise.

This site is a prime example of the imbalance with certain behaviours or forum comments being excused or enabled because the offender is a woman.

Those same apologists are strangely quiet when a man is behaving in that manner or are in the frontline with their pitchfork."

I do think that there’s been a step taken towards women not accepting certain things in relationships and when it’s based on bullshit and not challenging gender roles that should be called out. But I think generally women recognise that relationships with men tend to be unequal. Be that in labour around the house, emotional labour etc. sexually I think women are more confident nowadays to discuss their pleasure when it comes to sex. That doesn’t have to translate to men being inadequate. What I read online doesn’t translate to men being labelled as inept or inadequate. It does translate to women talking about their sexual pleasure not being prioritised or considered. I’ve not seen women saying men aren’t worthy of praise in the media either but it happens on the internet I’m sure. When I’ve seen it, I’ve only seen it in the context of praising men for doing what they should be doing. I believe in the saying don’t applaud a fish for swimming. Whether that’s what’s happening or not, on that one I don’t know.

People call out the double standard on here all the time regarding men and women with threads and stuff btw.

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

You know, I knew the people who would be against this OP. And it's transpired exactly as I thought it would

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You know, I knew the people who would be against this OP. And it's transpired exactly as I thought it would

Oh THANK GOD you came!

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"You know, I knew the people who would be against this OP. And it's transpired exactly as I thought it would

Oh THANK GOD you came! "

You don't have to be so obsessed with me that you must respond to everything I write here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You know, I knew the people who would be against this OP. And it's transpired exactly as I thought it would

Oh THANK GOD you came!

You don't have to be so obsessed with me that you must respond to everything I write here

Ok, Zaddy

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Whilst lots of men don't need any help from the world proving that men can be evil, there does seem to be an unnerving groundswell of media and political agenda towards the demonisation of the male gender.

Let's not pretend that all men are angels far from it but on the flip side most men are decent law abiding citizens going about their lives hard working, loving and caring.

The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good.

As a small snapshot of this you only need to see the difference in attitude towards men and women on here.

Before people start jumping on the incel name calling,I love women I love my wife and daughter my sister's and friends.

What I'm trying to do is open a honest debate designed to challenge the current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims.

For true equality we should be striving for a view that everyone is treated with the same level of compassion regardless of gender.

And challenging stereotypes is important.

Very well said and completely agree.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

My feeling on this is that men need their own second wave feminism. There are bits of it. Hard to know what will stick, what won't, etc.

The power dynamic has shifted and the acceptable range of conversation has changed (#metoo, etc). And men are now hearing what other groups have been whispering for generations.

On the whole I think this is good for everyone, but it's difficult and uncomfortable (and some people take it too far). And equality feels like oppression when you're not used to it.

The kyriarchy*/ patriarchy hurts men too, etc.

* While I recognise that this is the accepted spelling, the Greek nerd in me really wants to write kuriarchy

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By *ea monkeyMan
over a year ago

Manchester (he/him)

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology "

That’s completely ignoring the reality of the world and the safety of people in situations though.

There is a huge amount of entitlement in asking people in unsafe situations to assume that the man is not dangerous or to put themselves in a situation where they are vulnerable based on the say so of the guy and the reason that the guys feelings are hurt at potentially being seen as dangerous.

The person doesn’t know you and isn’t going to take your presence as read

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"When a woman crosses the road because it's late and she's feeling scared, she isn't demonising anyone.

Men cross the road too."

This is largely how society treats women, the low standards set by those in charge. Where I work women would never be scared crossing town late at night because they are protected and safe and there is zero tolerance for any type of harassment. Put the same men in the uk they will be dicks I’m sure

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology

That’s completely ignoring the reality of the world and the safety of people in situations though.

The person doesn’t know you and isn’t going to take your presence as read"

And most women know how it goes when we do assume someone is safe and we're wrong

It's our fault for not being more careful!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology

That’s completely ignoring the reality of the world and the safety of people in situations though.

The person doesn’t know you and isn’t going to take your presence as read"

But let’s say I lived in a rough part of London and had a lot of negative experiences with black people

Would we as a society accept my view that all black people could be criminals? Would we go one step further and sympathise with my request for them to maybe cross the road if they saw me looking uneasy?

It’s not specifically about race or gender, it’s a larger question that why are we accepting of certain views based on stereotypes and statistics and personal experience, but not others?

That’s the bigger issue. We seem to pick and choose when it’s ok based on whatever the current flavour is. Racism is out, you can’t openly say “well I’ve had a lot of bad experiences with black people so I just assume the worst” and expect that view to be accepted or respected. But it’s ok with men.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Seems to be some are justifying the demonisation of an entire gender. Nice.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"While the world is full of bad and evil men, there's a whole lot of good and decent men who protect everybody else from"

Wouldn't it be nice if no one needed protection though.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Seems to be some are justifying the demonisation of an entire gender. Nice. "

I mean, what I'm reading is people trying to navigate the various issues that are adjacent to what's being called demonisation, but nuance is dead, so whatever.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology

That’s completely ignoring the reality of the world and the safety of people in situations though.

The person doesn’t know you and isn’t going to take your presence as read

But let’s say I lived in a rough part of London and had a lot of negative experiences with black people

It’s not specifically about race or gender, it’s a larger question that why are we accepting of certain views based on stereotypes and statistics and personal experience, but not others?

Jesus wept.

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By *eyeYCouple
over a year ago

Nr Leicester

Just look at the recent 'Maate!' campaign..

Sadiq Khans utterly useless campaign, guy's shouldn't be responsible for the idiots of their own sex.

We've experienced more entitled women since starting our journey within the lifestyle, with D being the subject of unrequited attention on a few occasions. I was told straight by him. IE roles reversed it would not be acceptable or amusing to him!

From our female friends on here we hear what sort of abhorrent behaviour they receive from (some!) men. We feel it's a difficult line trod by single guys of which Mr was one prior to us meeting.

But the misandry is common and unjust in the most part, any self respecting man does not have the attitude of 'any hole's a'...

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"Seems to be some are justifying the demonisation of an entire gender. Nice. "

Get thee behind me Satan!

Seriously though, is being cautious of a gender who can put me on my arse quicker than I can say Andrew Tate, demonising them?

I know very, very few of them would do that to me, but I'm cautious because I know I'd be toast if one of them snapped.

I'd have half a chance against most women, especially due to me being fat.

Are we only talking about physical behaviour when demonising them?

What about the complaints of unsolicited dick pics on here, or salacious first messages?

Is being called out regarding overtly sexual behaviour on here demonising them?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology

That’s completely ignoring the reality of the world and the safety of people in situations though.

The person doesn’t know you and isn’t going to take your presence as read

But let’s say I lived in a rough part of London and had a lot of negative experiences with black people

It’s not specifically about race or gender, it’s a larger question that why are we accepting of certain views based on stereotypes and statistics and personal experience, but not others?

Why do you keep talking about Black people?

And why do you keep comparing these issues?

It’s so funny you’re comparing race and gender as if they aren’t intersecting issues. You gave your first example which was an issue that predominantly impacts the intersection of those identities in Black men which was all the evidence really needed that you don’t *actually* care about men as much as you say considering you are willing to use and undermine examples that would negatively impact innocent young men.

I think you’re missing the point around VAWG and gender based violence tbh. The fact you’re comparing that with some hypothetical bad experiences (that’s all the context we are given) with Black people is all the evidence of that. You’re not even comparing it to negative, racist experiences with Black people which might be similar. But still isn’t because it’s not an issue that overwhelmingly affects white people more and leads to violence against them or their death.

Look, it’s ok to make your point in this thread without talking about Black people. My unsolicited advice is, maybe do that?

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

I'll go back to my whataboutery comment earlier.

A few years ago a number of male employees drew my attention to inappropriate comments aimed at a female colleague by a man.

I put him through a full disciplinary process and he was warned about future behaviour.

He took offence at that and physically attacked me a couple of days later but avoided instant dismissal by pulling out the MH card which is a story for another day.

A couple of weeks after all this a middle aged woman in the sales office was reported by 2 different teenage boys for wolf whistling at them from the office window and how she made them feel uncomfortable every time they went into the office with her sexual innuendos.

No action seemed to be taken so I asked the office manager only to be told that they didn't want to discipline her because it created a bad image so soon after another staff member being disciplined and the fallout from that.

The MD was more direct and said it wasn't a good look to discipline a woman and having a quiet word with her was more beneficial.

When I reported back to the young lads who made the complaint both of them along with a number of more senior staff told me that in future they would not be reporting inappropriate behaviour if it was going to be one rule for them and another for us.

The failure to deal with her actions had a long term knock on effect.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

At some point I think we as a society need to have a hard discussion about when it’s ok to judge someone not by the content of their heart but by the characteristics that make up their physiology

That’s completely ignoring the reality of the world and the safety of people in situations though.

The person doesn’t know you and isn’t going to take your presence as read

But let’s say I lived in a rough part of London and had a lot of negative experiences with black people

It’s not specifically about race or gender, it’s a larger question that why are we accepting of certain views based on stereotypes and statistics and personal experience, but not others?

Why do you keep talking about Black people?

And why do you keep comparing these issues?

Look, it’s ok to make your point in this thread without talking about Black people. My unsolicited advice is, maybe do that?"

Feel free to exchange black peoples to any other physical characteristic or religion. Immigrants might even be a good swap. Whatever makes you feel safer

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I'll go back to my whataboutery comment earlier.

A few years ago a number of male employees drew my attention to inappropriate comments aimed at a female colleague by a man.

I put him through a full disciplinary process and he was warned about future behaviour.

He took offence at that and physically attacked me a couple of days later but avoided instant dismissal by pulling out the MH card which is a story for another day.

The MD was more direct and said it wasn't a good look to discipline a woman and having a quiet word with her was more beneficial.

The failure to deal with her actions had a long term knock on effect."

I wish society would take inappropriate sexual behaviour by women more seriously. It's not magically funny, cute, or a joke when women do it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never met a woman in my life who has the attitude all men are monsters. And most women I know have experienced something disturbing because of a man but they still wouldn't have that mindset. You're taking it personally. It's not doing more harm than good openly discussing how dangerous some men can be. Your posts comes across as belittling to experiences most women have lived.

Men are a real threat to women. I am scared for my life sometimes. But I know it isn't all men and anyone with half a brain knows it isn't all men.

It's only a good thing to discuss and be open about our experiences. I think it encourages a more healthy outlook, we can raise our boys to be better, we can raise our daughters to not settle for men who are monsters. And we can be more aware and able to recognise dangerous and unhealthy behaviour. If men would stop behaving in such a horrendous way, we wouldn't even be having this discussion.

I know there are extremist who genuinely do hate every man, but that's a whole other post and not something you see day to day unless you're actively seeking that kind of stuff out.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I've never met a woman in my life who has the attitude all men are monsters. And most women I know have experienced something disturbing because of a man but they still wouldn't have that mindset. You're taking it personally. It's not doing more harm than good openly discussing how dangerous some men can be. Your posts comes across as belittling to experiences most women have lived.

Men are a real threat to women. I am scared for my life sometimes. But I know it isn't all men and anyone with half a brain knows it isn't all men.

I know there are extremist who genuinely do hate every man, but that's a whole other post and not something you see day to day unless you're actively seeking that kind of stuff out. "

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Men are a real threat to women. I am scared for my life sometimes. But I know it isn't all men and anyone with half a brain knows it isn't all men.

I know there are extremist who genuinely do hate every man, but that's a whole other post and not something you see day to day unless you're actively seeking that kind of stuff out. "

Flip every man and woman in your post and the same rings true.

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By *ose-tinted GlassesMan
over a year ago

Glasgow / London

Men have had hundreds of years of being on top. We have a lot to make amends for. We should recognise that, at the very least.

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

I am aware of at least 4 marriages (3 close family members) where the good men were ousted by the women. Yes I was close to all and observed many things.

In the last office I worked in, a lot of the women came onto to us "suits" and made their intentions quite clear. It's like they were bored or something. I did not indulge but some of the men gave in.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We have flipside opinion on men.

Masculinity is important and it's attempting to be removed from society.

Lots of toxic behaviours comes from masculinity. More positive comes from it in our opinion.

We do not live in a non violent world. You need men with the ability to be violent who only do so when necessary.

Be the monster then control it is a good way of looking at it. There's no virtue in being non violent if you dont have the capacity to do so

Its about balance isn't it, you need the masculine to the feminine.

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

"I am aware of at least 4 marriages (3 close family members) where the good men were ousted by the women. Yes I was close to all and observed many things.

And I know more than 4 marriages where the men cheated with more than one woman, and others where the men were violent and controlling.

Those personal experiences don't give us a true picture of men and women in relationships.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I am aware of at least 4 marriages (3 close family members) where the good men were ousted by the women. Yes I was close to all and observed many things.

And I know more than 4 marriages where the men cheated with more than one woman, and others where the men were violent and controlling.

Those personal experiences don't give us a true picture of men and women in relationships.

Agreed. I'm not sure anyone has ever said that women don't misbehave (insert any other word here, up to and including being violent offenders). Just that there are patterns of behaviour, that are indicative of larger phenomena. It's true of any group.

The fact that some women do bad things doesn't detract from any of the issues men face pushback about.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"I am aware of at least 4 marriages (3 close family members) where the good men were ousted by the women. Yes I was close to all and observed many things.

I'm sure my ex husband and friends would say the same though. Nobody knows what's goes on behind closed doors. And a relationship failure is rarely 100% one person's fault.

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By *ummerfield94Man
over a year ago

falkirk

A common debate I have with friends. Sometimes the fight for Equality can cause more inequality.

This is case and point. It's an interesting idea I do agree that too many men are looked with distrust even when it's just with the best of intentions or in search of genuine friendship. It does happen on both ends undoubtedly

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By *ily WhiteWoman
over a year ago

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

Absolutely this.

But, we do live in a patriarchy. I'm not talking about men being satanic monsters, that's media sensationalism. I'm talking about everyday things like going to a garage with a man, for example ...the majority of the time the mechanic will automatically talk to the man, regardless of whether I know a lot more about cars than he does.

Each gender has their own challenges to deal with, they're not harder or more important, just different.

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By *aucasian GhandiMan
over a year ago

from my dad's left nut (Warwick)

I'm a man, and I'm fucking amazing, my mum says so.

demonise that shit....mofos

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

One of the biggest effects is to make women so scared. Yes we should minimise risk as all people should. But the real risk to our person isn't nearly as high as media makes it out to be. The same with children with stranger danger which is tiny less that 0.1%. Women are taught that any man is a potential attacker so we curtail our activities. I certainly find it hard to shake this fear.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"One of the biggest effects is to make women so scared. Yes we should minimise risk as all people should. But the real risk to our person isn't nearly as high as media makes it out to be. The same with children with stranger danger which is tiny less that 0.1%. Women are taught that any man is a potential attacker so we curtail our activities. I certainly find it hard to shake this fear."

The stranger danger thing is a double edged sword. Not only does it make us more fearful, but statistics show that we're most at risk from people we know. So we're less alert when we need to be more alert.

Not that I'm going to stop crossing the road etc - the stranger who gets butthurt that I'm exercising basic precautions can do one. It's not that I think you personally are going to attack me, it's that I don't want to be attacked.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" What I'm trying to do is open a honest debate designed to challenge the current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims.

For true equality we should be striving for a view that everyone is treated with the same level of compassion regardless of gender.

And challenging stereotypes is important.

I'm cynical that you're seeking an honest debate as you've chosen to term it "demonisation".

I would challenge anyone here who called all men predators - they're not.

Or all women victims - we're not.

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By *r-8-BBCMan
over a year ago

LONDON

I think 99% are in agreement here.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

" What I'm trying to do is open a honest debate designed to challenge the current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims.

For true equality we should be striving for a view that everyone is treated with the same level of compassion regardless of gender.

And challenging stereotypes is important.

I'm cynical that you're seeking an honest debate as you've chosen to term it "demonisation".

I would challenge anyone here who called all men predators - they're not.

Or all women victims - we're not. "

Indeed such a paradigm is classic sexism - that men wield power and women cower in fear (or manipulate). Life isn't so simple.

Everyone attempts to displace the potential for crime - we lock our houses and cars, for example. No it's not the same and equating people with property is gross, but it makes a pertinent point here. When I lock my front door I'm not screaming HEY EVERYONE I THINK YOU WANT TO NICK MY TELLY. I'm taking precautions just in case someone does.

Evasive behaviour just in case a strange man does things, conversations between people about problematic behaviour - minus the property implications, it's the same thing. I don't want to get hurt. Not "I think you're going to hurt me".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This narrative was crafted to challenge the pitfalls of patriarchy. Throughout history, men have often relished their position at the pinnacle of societal hierarchies. However, it's essential to recognize that combating one injustice with another is not the solution. I believe that we must examine each situation individually, as any form of sweeping generalization is inherently unjust

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"This narrative was crafted to challenge the pitfalls of patriarchy. Throughout history, men have often relished their position at the pinnacle of societal hierarchies. However, it's essential to recognize that combating one injustice with another is not the solution. I believe that we must examine each situation individually, as any form of sweeping generalization is inherently unjust"

Exactly an eye for an eye is not the way forward.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Exactly an eye for an eye is not the way forward."

Who is proposing an eye for an eye?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

100%

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Personally I love men and think there are more toxic women here than there are men.

100%"

Though I wouldn't say I love men though...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 12:08:42]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Exactly an eye for an eye is not the way forward.

Who is proposing an eye for an eye?"

Not sure who did but definitely not Mr Gandhi.

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By *annaCouple
over a year ago

Canterbury

The fact you say most of this is being pushed by MSM answers your question Truthfully I don't believe there is demonisation. Is there a narrative fabricated by MSM absolutely. Does everyone believe MSM no

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By *olly_chromaticTV/TS
over a year ago

Stockport

Interesting that there has not been a single word yet from any TV or TS. We are people who to some greater or lesser extent have walked both sides of the gender fence. We are also at times treated by society as being some kind of third gender that comes lower in the pecking order than male or female, yet can be freely demonised by both.

Yes, not all trans, and not treated badly by all male or female. Also I believe a very different experience and societal position for F to M trans than M to F trans, although some points of similarity also - but I can personally only speak about M to F trans experiences, and then only my singular experiences.

So back to the topic of the OP... imho the world is very complex; there are very real differences in the experiences and fears for different genders; there is a massive imbalance in power which continues from untold centuries of patriarchal societies; issues are not clear cut but have both shades of grey and in fact all the colours of the rainbow.

Setting the fears/difficulties of the women in direct opposition to those of men is probably a false comparison - almost like asking "is the colour blue louder than the taste of salt?".

Just some off the top of my head thoughts about the issues raised by the OP.

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By *ulieAndBeefCouple
over a year ago

Manchester-ish

Are we being demonised? That's not the feeling I get, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

All I see is people (not just women) deciding that they will no longer tolerate shitty behaviour from 'shitty' men and the excuses like; that's just boys being boys, that's how this industry works, or what do you expect if you act like that, which society have used for eons to allow and to some extent encourage the belief that men are entitled to sex, are no longer being accepted.

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By *eo29Man
over a year ago

London

Statistically speaking, can we blame them? Ask yourself this, why are we as Men protectors? what exactly are we protecting women from, because i know it isn't natural disasters mate, lets not be silly. when i walk the streets at night i think "that guy looks rowdy or a little too d*unk, if i was a little woman on my own right now i'd be worried to death", i won't let my sisters travel alone too late because theres been countless times a random man's tried harming them, my 11 year old niece has come home crying because her school teacher was passing weird comments about her body in class(and was fired...thats all) it's just the harsh reality and some people struggling to see that can be a positive and negative, positive as you're clearly a good guy so you apparently cant fathom how dangerous people can be, negative because you're ignoring the harsh reality some people have to live. Unfortunately some family members and every woman i've had a long term relationship with has told me they've been r@ped in the past, thats clearly a huge issue, who would i be to then say most men are good and disregard their bad experiences? only thing you can do is be the good guy you preach about and not speak for every single man by saying majority are good because you quite simply do not know every man, or their morals and intentions, in this world you only truly know yourself. This is not to say women are perfect either, but as a man, never once have i come home crying because a woman has forced herself on me, made a weird comment when i was a child or caused me any alarm while walking the streets, it just wont happen! however these tend to be regular occurrences for woman and even children. My usual response when a woman says most men are bad is yeah but i'm not, end of convo, or you can seem like one of those weird guys and get on the defensive but trust me, it doesn't look good.

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By *inda May SimmonsTV/TS
over a year ago

hexham

Well I consider myself a man at times and a woman at times… should I beat myself up about it?

I think not!

It’s ok. I am getting my coat!

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Are we being demonised? That's not the feeling I get, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

Quite.

We're just being louder about things needing to change.

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By *ake_or_deathMan
over a year ago

Manchester

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 12:30:54]

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By *ake_or_deathMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Are we being demonised? That's not the feeling I get, but maybe I'm not looking in the right place.

100% this.

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By *ake_or_deathMan
over a year ago

Manchester

To those accustomed to privilege, equality feels like an attack. Men are just being asked to reconsider behaviour that has been tolerated for years when it should never have been acceptable. That's not 'demonising men', it's asking men to correct their bad behaviour.

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By *rimson_RoseWoman
over a year ago

Tamworth

I’m not sure women are always painted as the victims. I’ve seen plenty of posts of late where women are too this, too that, not enough of the other.

Why do we have age ranges. Why do we say we don’t like dick pics (after a few posts, later being branded liars). Why people won’t meet the slutty ones with all their veris. Why won’t we respond to messages, cow bags that we are.

Maybe everyone has good moments and bad moments? Days they behave well, others they don’t so much. Sod all to do with being this kind of profile or that.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I’m not sure women are always painted as the victims. I’ve seen plenty of posts of late where women are too this, too that, not enough of the other.

Maybe everyone has good moments and bad moments? Days they behave well, others they don’t so much. Sod all to do with being this kind of profile or that."

I think sexism - both women are too picky/ victims/ mean to men/ wily etc and men must be brave and strong and not have emotions and are incapable of housework and can occasionally be trusted with childcare etc etc - is complicated, and people react to different parts of it.

It's not simply that women are portrayed as victims. We're also expected to be people pleasing - so never let men know when you're taking evasive action to protect yourself, and also play nice but not too nice because you might have to evade (hard to get/ head games). We play head games and use our bodies to get ahead, in the sexism thing, because other avenues have been denied to us.

Male suicide rates are very high because mental health and emotions other than anger are decried as female.

etc.

It's a huge mishmash of toxic crap which hurts everyone.

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

pt"

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"I think 99% are in agreement here.

If that is the case (I can barely read these 'X here' threads) then I will live and die that 1%

In my experience, men who want to be real 'men' are on-balance the least 'manly' men that I have ever seen in my lifetime. I just want to shout 'Will you grow up!" at them all!

Dispossessed men - especially the white middle-aged men who so-jealously stole the term 'Lives Matter' - have *so many* genuine issues they could talk about!

But we are ****NOT*** being persecuted in relation to women! (Or black people for that matter).

It drives me spare.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack."

Told you

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I think 99% are in agreement here.

If that is the case (I can barely read these 'X here' threads) then I will live and die that 1%

In my experience, men who want to be real 'men' are on-balance the least 'manly' men that I have ever seen in my lifetime. I just want to shout 'Will you grow up!" at them all!

Dispossessed men - especially the white middle-aged men who so-jealously stole the term 'Lives Matter' - have *so many* genuine issues they could talk about!

But we are ****NOT*** being persecuted in relation to women! (Or black people for that matter).

It drives me spare.

pt"

I think men have a lot of issues that need to be discussed, unpacked, and work out what it means to be a man in this day and age, with everything that's changing. Including the way women and non-binary folx are. I'm sure these discussions are going to be painful and many men are victims of these cultural shifts.

That doesn't mean that women or anyone else should reduce their standards or expectations of how men treat us. Both can be true and it's not a zero sum game.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack.

This was designed to be 'easily' agreed with, and you can't complain - it has been.

I am debating reasonably.

What you have said is simply **not true**, and I cannot see how Men's rights have to be so compared to women's rights (or indeed anyone's.).

This isn't a joke.

Things like r*pe are on the increase.

Of course you can say "but but but not all men!!!!" all day long - but do you have to? That whole 'gender victim' line is an entirely false argument designed to sell advertising space in poor quality news outlets if you ask me! Do not forget that nearly all the victims are female - not male!

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

pt"

This thread is literally violence against women and I won’t rest until we see OP in prison for a lengthy stay

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I'm off out in 5 O.P. I agree with the sentiment of your post and I agree that in some communities, such as this one, there is a knee jerk reaction to any male behaviour and given the current climate following the #me too success , it isn't helped by the immediate and unquestioned behaviour of placing the woman in any situation as an automatic victim.

It is possible to 'love' someone and to consider them inferior on gender lines at the same time.

I'm 2 mins late

Granny speaks the truth, as usual

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack.

Told you

Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack.

Told you

Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

pt"

Could you put more words in all capitals so I know when to feel emotions and cheer and stuff?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack.

Told you

Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

Could you put more words in all capitals so I know when to feel emotions and cheer and stuff?

I wouldn't belittle people's emotions in the particular area. And to be honest I'm just trying to make it easy for men to read.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack.

Told you

Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

Could you put more words in all capitals so I know when to feel emotions and cheer and stuff?

I wouldn't belittle people's emotions in the particular area. And to be honest I'm just trying to make it easy for men to read.

pt"

This is why fabs need gifs. Men can only really understand very simple words and gifs, the odd grunt maybe

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Could you put more words in all capitals so I know when to feel emotions and cheer and stuff? "

To be fair this was quite funnt

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"To quote the OP; "The attitude that all men are violent predators and all women are victims seems to do more harm than good."

Just look properly at what you have written there man!

It's just an emotional splurge isn't it?

Don't we *all* deserve better than this?

The is **NO** "current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims."

Whether you can see it or not you are effectively lying.

Why?

Honestly, I find this whole approach actually just *yet another* attack on women.

I really, really, really do.

I support men's rights, but NOT at the expense of women's rights or THROUGH attacks on women.

To me this OP was underhand in the **extreme** despite its language of equality.

This (and similar threads fashioned in the same way) are nothing less than an implicit attack on women's rights.

Women's rights have NOT 'gone too far', most attacks on women come to ***nothing***. Almost all of them in fact.

When will people understand that?

WOMEN!

Whoahh there,easy now tiger coming on a bit strong.

The idea is to have a reasonable debate and debunk stereotypes.

No need for the personal attack.

Told you

Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

Could you put more words in all capitals so I know when to feel emotions and cheer and stuff?

I wouldn't belittle people's emotions in the particular area. And to be honest I'm just trying to make it easy for men to read.

This is why fabs need gifs. Men can only really understand very simple words and gifs, the odd grunt maybe

If only that didn't so-often seem the case.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

pt"

Oh I couldn't give a fuck about either side on the debate of this topic. It's the world's best predictable entertainment to watch fold out. None scripted yet so predictable, sometimes word for word.

I told the OP exactly how the thread would go and the responses they would get from all sides. And I was right.

My ego remains unfazed by the topic and the responses.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very very well said, I’m a father of three daughters, all very pretty but really struggle to find boyfriends, seems these days young lads are told if you go chasing women your a predator, if they tell a woman she’s pretty again they are predators. All three of my girls find this really hard to deal with and would much rather be “wooed or chased”. Very strange time’s especially for the teenagers trying to find their way.

I read an study recently that showed a direct correlation between demonising of men and there habits and the rise of bi curious percentage of men, there conclusion was if single men aren’t really allowed to chase women anymore so rather than give up they stick with there own sex.

It’s a complicated one but I personally believe we have got it wrong, that being said I do t know what the right answer is

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *rimson_RoseWoman
over a year ago

Tamworth

David Brent: Good friend of mine, and a bloody good rep - Chris Finch, yeah, IQ of 142, one of the cleverest blokes I know, certainly the cleverest bloke you know, innit?

Gareth Keenan: Chris Finch, yeah.

DB: Yeah, he was in an argument once and he went "How can I hate women? My mum's one".

“Work experience.” The Office, created by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant, series 1, episode 2, Capital United Nations Entertainment, 16 July 2001.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *izzymonkeyMan
over a year ago

Hiding In A Bush

"David Brent: Good friend of mine, and a bloody good rep - Chris Finch, yeah, IQ of 142, one of the cleverest blokes I know, certainly the cleverest bloke you know, innit?

Gareth Keenan: Chris Finch, yeah.

DB: Yeah, he was in an argument once and he went "How can I hate women? My mum's one".

“Work experience.” The Office, created by Ricky Gervais and Stephen Merchant, series 1, episode 2, Capital United Nations Entertainment, 16 July 2001. "

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

Oh I couldn't give a fuck about either side on the debate of this topic. It's the world's best predictable entertainment to watch fold out. None scripted yet so predictable, sometimes word for word.

I told the OP exactly how the thread would go and the responses they would get from all sides. And I was right.

My ego remains unfazed by the topic and the responses.

But the OP - who is hardly new to the site(!) - says he is expecting nothing (apart from agreement obviously - which goes without saying because of the way his post was framed) but respectful debate

. I mean this is fabswingers of course, where nobody has strong views on anything.

This OP had all the rhetoric of a controversial political statement designed to quietly hit home while discouraging equally-strong disagreement in return. But it was full of emotive but incorrect statements, as I highlighted.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *aucasian GhandiMan
over a year ago

from my dad's left nut (Warwick)

"Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

Oh I couldn't give a fuck about either side on the debate of this topic. It's the world's best predictable entertainment to watch fold out. None scripted yet so predictable, sometimes word for word.

I told the OP exactly how the thread would go and the responses they would get from all sides. And I was right.

My ego remains unfazed by the topic and the responses. "

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Very very well said, I’m a father of three daughters, all very pretty but really struggle to find boyfriends, seems these days young lads are told if you go chasing women your a predator, if they tell a woman she’s pretty again they are predators. All three of my girls find this really hard to deal with and would much rather be “wooed or chased”. Very strange time’s especially for the teenagers trying to find their way.

It’s a complicated one but I personally believe we have got it wrong, that being said I do t know what the right answer is

wow. Just wow.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eo29Man
over a year ago

London

don't know how you turned this debate into a sort of racist rant, but to disprove your point with your own logic, statistics also prove poverty breeds crime, statistics prove that black people were brought here and forced to live in low income, deprived areas, where most continue to live and struggle till today because statistically a black person is less likely to receive any sort of loan in comparison to a white person, in result of that white people have generational wealth 'statistically' accumulated by properties owned from mortgages the bank gave their parents but refused to give to the black family across the road..thats just a touch on systemic racism, not to mention the physical and mental abuse a lot of black people like myself has endured, growing up black in a white country is traumatising to say the least, the reason i say this is because when you take those things into account i can understand why some black people have this extreme built up trauma, anger and misdirection as they often feel like a knife, an object uwanted within the community. I'm not replying to defend knife crime, its disgusting full stop. However, you have to take into account all the statistics and the history when speaking about certain topics, not just the statistics that favour you. Realise how not everyone is saying most men are demons full stop, they're explaining the history behind the reasons they feel this way and based off that you cant fault it, so why is it that when its black people issues the history and context isn't so important?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Please do suggest where we could find such an illuminating study.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *nitterWoman
over a year ago

the land of tall tales and yarn

**twirls in, realises her folly and twirls back out**

Jeepers

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"**twirls in, realises her folly and twirls back out**

Jeepers"

**throws glitter??**

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"don't know how you turned this debate into a sort of racist rant, but to disprove your point with your own logic, statistics also prove poverty breeds crime, statistics prove that black people were brought here and forced to live in low income, deprived areas, where most continue to live and struggle till today because statistically a black person is less likely to receive any sort of loan in comparison to a white person, in result of that white people have generational wealth 'statistically' accumulated by properties owned from mortgages the bank gave their parents but refused to give to the black family across the road..thats just a touch on systemic racism, not to mention the physical and mental abuse a lot of black people like myself has endured, growing up black in a white country is traumatising to say the least, the reason i say this is because when you take those things into account i can understand why some black people have this extreme built up trauma, anger and misdirection as they often feel like a knife, an object uwanted within the community. I'm not replying to defend knife crime, its disgusting full stop. However, you have to take into account all the statistics and the history when speaking about certain topics, not just the statistics that favour you. Realise how not everyone is saying most men are demons full stop, they're explaining the history behind the reasons they feel this way and based off that you cant fault it, so why is it that when its black people issues the history and context isn't so important?

Next to Reply is 'Reply with Quote' mate.

As soon as I read the OP's thread I thought also of White Lives Matter and how so many men are desperate to have their moment as 'victims' - just as they are so-often decrying the whole concept of victimhood! It's so sad really.

But men can have a righteous grump about being men without ever treading-on or demeaning anyone surely. Especially black people and especially women.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *nitterWoman
over a year ago

the land of tall tales and yarn

"**twirls in, realises her folly and twirls back out**

Jeepers

**throws glitter??**"

Wanna twirl out with me?

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

Fuck. I'm a middle aged white male so I better not say too much

It is interesting though, I had a discussion just on Sunday with my 18 year old daughter about this topic. She feels the same as I do.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *alcon43Woman
over a year ago

Paisley

Where is the ‘men are evil’ being displayed? I’ve not seen anything along these lines.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"**twirls in, realises her folly and twirls back out**

Jeepers

**throws glitter??**

Wanna twirl out with me?"

I'm a bit out of practice but I can try!

**twirls out, throwing glitter**

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"Pile in, I don't care.

This is too important for male egos on a Swingers site.

Are you all that jealous of others being victims that you have to go after someone like me?

'Man' up, guys.

Oh I couldn't give a fuck about either side on the debate of this topic. It's the world's best predictable entertainment to watch fold out. None scripted yet so predictable, sometimes word for word.

I told the OP exactly how the thread would go and the responses they would get from all sides. And I was right.

My ego remains unfazed by the topic and the responses.

But the OP - who is hardly new to the site(!) - says he is expecting nothing (apart from agreement obviously - which goes without saying because of the way his post was framed) but respectful debate

. I mean this is fabswingers of course, where nobody has strong views on anything.

pt "

Dude you really are reading this wrongly.

I'm not going to tell you how to think or what to say it's an open forum.

But don't twist what I said and it's meaning to suit you.

I am going to comment no more and leave you be.

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *nitterWoman
over a year ago

the land of tall tales and yarn

"**twirls in, realises her folly and twirls back out**

Jeepers

**throws glitter??**

Wanna twirl out with me?

I'm a bit out of practice but I can try!

**twirls out, throwing glitter**"

Good girl that was excellent

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *eo29Man
over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 14:07:08]

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"**twirls in, realises her folly and twirls back out**

Jeepers

**throws glitter??**

Wanna twirl out with me?

I'm a bit out of practice but I can try!

**twirls out, throwing glitter**

Good girl that was excellent"

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

So men are accused of getting angry over nothing by angry men..... over nothing?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ad NannaWoman
over a year ago

East London

Please do suggest where we could find such an illuminating study. "

I think it's more a case of men struggling to attract women fucking each other because it's better than nothing.

I met someone on here who "allowed" a man to suck his cock.

When I asked why he said there was no pussy available, but let's blame women for men's inability to control their sexual desires.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"So men are accused of getting angry over nothing by angry men..... over nothing?"

Oh I like this one

It needs highlighting and a sprinkle of glitter to make it stand out!

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *nitterWoman
over a year ago

the land of tall tales and yarn

"So men are accused of getting angry over nothing by angry men..... over nothing?

Oh I like this one

It needs highlighting and a sprinkle of glitter to make it stand out! "

**twirls in amd throws glitter**

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It was on bbc news website around three weeks ago, I’m sure if you search you’ll find it, just bear in mind I didn’t write it, just read it

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By *eo29Man
over a year ago

London

well i'll tell you this for free as someone that's 20 years younger than you are, i have a big social group and none of us are scared of being labelled a predator for pursuing women, but you have to take into account a lot of men try to pursue women who don't want them and unfortunately don't know when to stop, based off of that scenario happening frequently it may have become a thing where women feel uncomfortable in general but at the end of the day, if theres a genuine connection nothing in this world is going to stop that, i think you'd agree. So your daughters not being approach can be seen as a good thing, as why would she want a man that can't make his own decision if there somewhat seems to be a connection? Also not one person is turning Bi-curious because of this, thats honestly the funniest delusional misinformation i've ever heard, if a man is bi, bi-curious, gay or straight he was always that way, it's not something you just switch on because you feel out of luck

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By *eo29Man
over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 14:30:36]

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By *eo29Man
over a year ago

London

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 14:30:22]

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"It was on bbc news website around three weeks ago, I’m sure if you search you’ll find it, just bear in mind I didn’t write it, just read it "

You can share BBC news links here, it would be interesting.

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By *nitterWoman
over a year ago

the land of tall tales and yarn

"[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 14:30:22]"

Pssstttt Leo the Reply&Quote button is awesome

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I didn’t write the study, I just repeated what I wrote on here. My daughters know there own mind thank you, they also don’t need to be told how or what to feel, but thnkyou dor your opinion, in my opinion your wrong, in my daughters opinion your wrong, however your opinion may well be agreed upon with your own daughters

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In the interest of fairness and to prevent me speaking on my daughters behalf, I have just repeated your thoughts, this was the reply from two of them “ he clearly does not know women” there words not mine. This seems to be the problem these days, people assume they know best for everyone else, expecting everyone to think like them. Whatever happened to understanding each other, accepting we are not all the same, peace and love brother

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By *otSoPoshWoman
over a year ago

In a ball gown because that's how we roll in N. Devon

There is no point in shouting into this particular void when misandrists and people who have anti male bias of all genders tend to shout louder. I'm not looking for a row, but I'm aware posting anything could be taken as being argumentative. However, I'm doing it anyway, because all of our voices are valid.

I agree with the OP.

Men, on the whole, are vilified by society and the media. Women, on the whole...

Fuck this... I'm not justifying every time I say "men" or "women" with the words "not all" or "on the whole". That's ridiculous. And that's the point. As a rule, sensible humans know that when we say "men" or "women", or "trans people" or whatever term we are using to describe a section of society, we are aware that not every person within that section of society is the same. We know that individuals are individual (mob mentality aside) and that people are different. Yesterday I said to a friend (jokingly, because I was throwing a play-strop over the fact that people were not actually dropping everything to fulfil my desire) "Boys are stupid". I didn't mean all boys are stupid. I didn’t mean that all men are boys. I was kidding. And she was kidding when she agreed.

I will say, as I have before, that I've been attacked physically by men. And by women. I've been attacked verbally and emotionally by women. And by men. Physically I was hurt more by men, but the mental and emotional damage has been longer lasting and more severe from the women.

I have a healthy fear of people. Not men. Not women. People. It takes a lot for me to trust people, despite the fact that actually a majority are decent.

Men are treated as guilty until proven innocent and that there is no smoke without fire in many more cases than women. And women are assumed to be the victim until proven otherwise far more often. On fab and in wider society. And that's not right.

I completely agree with the OP that equality should be equal. Be wary, but be wary of people based on your experience of people, not based on the gender (or other characteristic) of someone you have experienced.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

[Removed by poster at 03/10/23 15:11:37]

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"There is no point in shouting into this particular void when misandrists and people who have anti male bias of all genders tend to shout louder. I'm not looking for a row, but I'm aware posting anything could be taken as being argumentative. However, I'm doing it anyway, because all of our voices are valid.

I agree with the OP.

Men, on the whole, are vilified by society and the media. Women, on the whole...

I have a healthy fear of people. Not men. Not women. People. It takes a lot for me to trust people, despite the fact that actually a majority are decent.

Well said that lady

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

Please do suggest where we could find such an illuminating study.

I think it's more a case of men struggling to attract women fucking each other because it's better than nothing.

I met someone on here who "allowed" a man to suck his cock.

When I asked why he said there was no pussy available, but let's blame women for men's inability to control their sexual desires.

Where did you see "let's blame women"?

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By *heVonMatterhornsCouple
over a year ago

Lincoln

Yeah but we do kinda suck don't we? Except for the ones that don't suck, they're alright. But them mean non-men over there, they suck too. Not all of those non-men suck either though.

Basically, people suck. Some suck slightly less. And everyone likes a moan

Nobody's going to solve world problems on a sex site

FAF?

LvM

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By *lay 4 your plessureMan
over a year ago

Wigan

I'm not aware that there is a current trend of all men are evil and all women are victims. I would say there is a disparity in general society on who are seen as evil and who are seen as victims though. There's a minority of both sexes that are preditory. Yes, there are more preditory males than females, but there's a lot more preditory females out there than people realise due to societal attitudes, as in sexism and patriarchy working against victims. I have my own experience of this from when I was at uni. In my room with a female friend things were getting frisky and we ended up naked together. I realised I didn't have any condoms, I told her I wouldn't have sex without protection, we could either go and get some or continue just using our hands and/or oral, within seconds she climbed over me, grabbed my dick, put it in her and started riding me, telling me she wasn't bothered about condoms, despite me making it clear to her I didn't want to do anything without protection. By definition, she r*ped me, she had sex with me knowingly against my will and caused me distress, worrying about potential sti's or hiv, as I knew she was pretty active before me. You can imagine what would have happened if I'd tried to make an official complaint about it back then, I'd have been ridiculed for complaining that a woman had sex with me, to think myself lucky I'd got some without having to rubber up, just as I still would be by a large proportion of the general population now. Not all men are evil, not all women are either, but there are some from both who do wrong, demonise those who do wrong based on their deeds not on their gender whilst remembering both men and women can be victims too.

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By *ansoffateMan
over a year ago

Sagittarius A

When all you use is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

I appreciated your sentiment OP, I think anyway. I'd like to see more coming together than polarisation.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

I agree with the OP.

Men, on the whole, are vilified by society and the media. Women, on the whole...

I have a healthy fear of people. Not men. Not women. People. It takes a lot for me to trust people, despite the fact that actually a majority are decent.

Well said that lady

Get out of here with your logic, both of you!

It has no place in this... Place.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"When all you use is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

I appreciated your sentiment OP, I think anyway. I'd like to see more coming together than polarisation.

This, when believe that all men are demonised by women. Then it makes them feel shitty and when you feel shitty, and are less likely to be your normal self. It kinda becomes a self fulfilling prophecy. Much better to narrow the gaps in opinions rather than highlighting and making the gaps wider.

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"When all you use is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

I appreciated your sentiment OP, I think anyway. I'd like to see more coming together than polarisation.

You see as much as I hate some of the crazy conspiracy theories fly around there's one that I do believe has legs.

Which is creating Division in society keeping the common folk apart and bickering between one another whilst the power brokers hope that we don't shift our focus towards them.

But I'm going a bit loopy at the moment being stuck indoors with a back problem so spouting more shit than I usually do.

I just want us all to get along and if we are going to be judged be judged by our own actions not by our gender,race, sexual orientation or religion

Peace and love xx

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By *imi_RougeWoman
over a year ago

Portsmouth

Better than I could have put it.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

I agree with the OP.

Men, on the whole, are vilified by society and the media. "

I'm not looking for a row either.

I just find the last sentence here really bizarre and not the world I live in at all.

I don't go to social events and have people turn their nose up at me because I'm a man.

I don't struggle to find a job or friends or dates with women because I'm a man.

Is that the kind of thing what happens to other men? Truly?

Because it feels like it isn't a case of society shunning men, but that some men associate with their gender group too strongly, so that they just can't handle hearing anything bad their gender has ever done.

If you hear "male violence is a problem" but you're not a violence male, then you're not being attacked and you don't need to get upset about it. You shouldn't have to hear "not all men" every single time people want to discuss an issue.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I'm a man, and I'm fucking amazing, my mum says so.

demonise that shit....mofos "

Simple Ghandi ...... an over doting mother is just sews the seeds...... and keeps on waterin'

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

I've seen a lot of this 'I'm not aware of this trend'.

If men were saying 'I'm not aware of etc etc etc. in regards to women' the tones here would be very different.

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By *ulieAndBeefCouple
over a year ago

Manchester-ish

"I've seen a lot of this 'I'm not aware of this trend'.

If men were saying 'I'm not aware of etc etc etc. in regards to women' the tones here would be very different.

Yes, but men not being aware of the experience of women is entirety different to men saying they aren't aware of their own experience

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

"When all you use is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

I appreciated your sentiment OP, I think anyway. I'd like to see more coming together than polarisation.

You see as much as I hate some of the crazy conspiracy theories fly around there's one that I do believe has legs.

Which is creating Division in society keeping the common folk apart and bickering between one another whilst the power brokers hope that we don't shift our focus towards them.

But I'm going a bit loopy at the moment being stuck indoors with a back problem so spouting more shit than I usually do.

I just want us all to get along and if we are going to be judged be judged by our own actions not by our gender,race, sexual orientation or religion

Peace and love xx"

On this I totally agree with you on

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"When all you use is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

I appreciated your sentiment OP, I think anyway. I'd like to see more coming together than polarisation.

You see as much as I hate some of the crazy conspiracy theories fly around there's one that I do believe has legs.

Which is creating Division in society keeping the common folk apart and bickering between one another whilst the power brokers hope that we don't shift our focus towards them.

But I'm going a bit loopy at the moment being stuck indoors with a back problem so spouting more shit than I usually do.

I just want us all to get along and if we are going to be judged be judged by our own actions not by our gender,race, sexual orientation or religion

Peace and love xx"

Bad back or not op. Good thread. Hope your back improves.

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"When all you use is a hammer everything starts looking like a nail.

I appreciated your sentiment OP, I think anyway. I'd like to see more coming together than polarisation.

You see as much as I hate some of the crazy conspiracy theories fly around there's one that I do believe has legs.

Which is creating Division in society keeping the common folk apart and bickering between one another whilst the power brokers hope that we don't shift our focus towards them.

But I'm going a bit loopy at the moment being stuck indoors with a back problem so spouting more shit than I usually do.

I just want us all to get along and if we are going to be judged be judged by our own actions not by our gender,race, sexual orientation or religion

Peace and love xx

Bad back or not op. Good thread. Hope your back improves. "

Thank you

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By *astandFeistyCouple
over a year ago

Bournemouth

"I've seen a lot of this 'I'm not aware of this trend'.

If men were saying 'I'm not aware of etc etc etc. in regards to women' the tones here would be very different.

Yes, but men not being aware of the experience of women is entirety different to men saying they aren't aware of their own experience

It hasn't just been men saying this..

As I said very much earlier in the thread, I knew almost to the profile, who would oppose this OP.

That either says I'm clever as fuck (doubt that) or some are just a little transparent (more likely).

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Anyways

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

I've never been triggered by anyone claiming that men are capable of terrible deeds but I have been triggered by people, mostly other men, it has to be said who claim that simply because I'm a man that I'm a potential threat to any woman and I should be more aware of that!

I've been triggered by people telling me that I need to do more, I need to call out toxic behaviour by other men and I need to be more aware of what is going on around me.

I don't associate with toxic people. I don't have friends who prey on women or belittle them in public or private but yet when I say that in a forum such as this I've been told in the past that I'm either blind or naive. I shouldn't have to convince anyone that I'm neither.

I've raised 3 strong independent young women and worked for more than 2 decades for a strong independent woman.

My core group of friends is split 50/50 male and female, all of whom are supportive of each other and our friendship is based on mutual respect. Gender doesn't enter the equation.

I have zero intention of changing the habits of a lifetime based on a few ranty people in an online forum because those habits have never caused any woman to fear me or feel disrespected.

I have never abused a woman in my life but have been physically attacked in my very first fab meet by a woman who wanted me to retaliate which is why she didn't mention her kink when we had met previously.

I obviously didn't fulfill her wish.

I won't accept anyone telling me that they know my own mind better than I do and that just because I have a penis I must work harder to ensure other people's safety and peace of mind.

I call bullshit on that especially on here where so much of what is said is lipservice and thrown out for effect.

Those who are most gobby about what they think any man with his own opinion should be doing should consider removing the beam from their own eye before attempting to remove the mote from someone elses.

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Here’s an idea

Let’s not debate anyone that thinks all men are evil

Let’s call a spade a spade and refuse to associate with openly misandrist people

This is a HUGELY dangerous idea and serves as nothing more than cancelling. This in itself is pretty evil.

The language is all so woffly anyway. The OP and certain usual posters just seem to me pretty-much to be continuing the usual 'freedoms' pretext, and some people have picked up the "equality" cherry, which is fine. But people are entitled to ask: what is this perceived egregious injustice that need counterbalancing with equality here? And who gets decide who exactly is misandrist without example? Who says the invisible spade is spade? Who actually here is anti men?

FWIW I find the idea that there are more 'toxic' women than men on this forum complete pretty-much nonsense too. There are more men on the forum full stop (though there do seem to be a lot more women here than on Fabswingers as a whole). The most 'shocking' and utterly mean-spirited things I personally see on this forum are almost-always said by men, new and sometimes old.

No, it's not just men who fart on this forum, but like the guy above says about 'not all men' - do we *really *need to keep saying that super-obvious fact all the time?

I wonder if these threads aren't just used sometimes to have a veiled dig at another forum member someone might not personally like too. And politics gets generalised just to do it.

Cancelling is to refuse to engage with someone on any level, and I think it is something that happens from the 'reactionary' Right of politics at least as much as the do-gooding Left, if not more so. Cancel culture at least doesn't seem to care where it wanders it seems.

I don't know about 'spades being spades' (life is rarely that simple) but I am someone who likes to be direct, say how I feel, I try not to thinly-veil any hidden subtext when something actually matters, and I try to give examples that back up my arguments. But I often see much better receptions on Fab to completely-unverified yet dramatic 'here's the spade' statement posts - they are clearly much easier to digest and support it seems.

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By *ersiantugMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"I've never been triggered by anyone claiming that men are capable of terrible deeds but I have been triggered by people, mostly other men, it has to be said who claim that simply because I'm a man that I'm a potential threat to any woman and I should be more aware of that!

You need to give an example of how you were personally triggered imo, not so much of a woman you met into a kink (I'm not sure what you were even saying there).

Why are there never proper examples?

No one needs to personally take offence at men in general being told to be more considerate towards women. As for 'all men' being told not to be violent because they are men? Unless it's a personal experience (ie to do with you personally) I'd say it's just whipped up paranoia. People are being scandalised by a completely out-of-control 'media' imo. Yes the media that's supposed to the the 'sane' antidote to media. Don't fall for it guys.

(Obviously if it's about educating young men about Andrew Tate - who talks about slapping women to keep them under control - because that's what real men do - it's a different matter. You can easily tell young men these days not to be violent in that sense.)

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