FabSwingers.com forum: Men's attitudes towards women.

By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Since the beginning of human kind I guess men have always viewed women a certain way.

In times past women where treated as fuzzy fluffy bunnies with the only purpose of pleasing men, being there for producing offspring and not allowed to have an opinion (see the old harry Enfield sketch Women know your place)

Thankfully times have changed and hopefully we all see each other as equals regardless of gender.

Yes we do sexually objectify others at times but I'm guessing that's just the animalistic side slipping out at times.

However I have noticed quite a steep upturn in the way some men comment about women in a very derogatory and frankly disrespectful way here and other media.

Has porn and the immediate access had an effect on this and other things like the incel movement?

But as a twist I have also noticed the way women talk about men in a similar way is this as a direct result of the above or is this as a result of women overcompensating trying to hard to become strong independent people who feel they can talk to people however they want because of historical chauvinism aimed at females???

Can I just say this is an observational post and non of my personal views are aired above.

I personally believe that we should all treat eachother with respect and dignity regardless of gender and in fact age, colour or religion.

This is purely for a discussion on society in general and not aimed at any individual.

Peace and love xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think you're spot on, sadly some women have taken equality to mean treating men in a similarly derogatory way to the way women were treated historically.

Respect for all as humans is a long way off

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By *red333Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

I think its about that person and how rude they are, i think Fab attracts that type of person but i also think their are many gents and ladies here with manners and breeding

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?

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By *herryblossom_BJWoman
over a year ago

Oxfordshire/Hampshire

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?"

Yes i be interested to know. Is it like me asking men if they have my perfect cock? Lol

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I saw a video clip the other day of a discussion between a chap and a group of young women on this subject and the guy where the ladies were still clinging on to some traditional values, such as thinking it was a mans place to pay for dinner on the first date (and probably subsequent dates too) and tye bloke pulled them up on it by basically saying that if they really want equality they can't pick and choose the best bits that give them an advantage and leave the bits that don't.

Must admit that I've seen a lot of this myself - and fairly frequently on fab too

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By *nightsoftheCoffeeTableCouple
over a year ago

Leeds

I don't think women are "trying" to be strong and independent we already are.

Mrs

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?"

Crikey it's not hard to find examples countless post's on here aimed at single men without wanting to break site rules singling out any particular individual,but we all see these post's daily.

Also in other social media,news etc it seems generally accepted that it's ok to take the piss out of men and treat us like morons.

Kinda understandable I guess given our history.

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?

Crikey it's not hard to find examples countless post's on here aimed at single men without wanting to break site rules singling out any particular individual,but we all see these post's daily.

Also in other social media,news etc it seems generally accepted that it's ok to take the piss out of men and treat us like morons.

Kinda understandable I guess given our history.

Mr "

Is that the same though?

Or is it women challenging men's attitudes?

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

Sadly I think it will be a long time before it changes.

I would say the media, TV and film, has a lot to do with it. Most bosses in the soaps are portrayed as hard nosed b'stards who feel they can talk to anyone, especially women, the way they want to. To continually keep the viewers watching the stories get more extreme, which people start to believe is they way everyone behaves in real life.

If you look at the newspaper and magazine stories who gets the most coverage, the bad boys and girls in the soaps again reinforcing bad behaviour is acceptable.

This is just my opinion. I also have to say soaps do lots of good when they raise difficult subjects or have storylines about illnesses, MH, cancer, dementia etc.

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?

Crikey it's not hard to find examples countless post's on here aimed at single men without wanting to break site rules singling out any particular individual,but we all see these post's daily.

Also in other social media,news etc it seems generally accepted that it's ok to take the piss out of men and treat us like morons.

Kinda understandable I guess given our history.

Is that the same though?

Or is it women challenging men's attitudes?"

That depends on if it is as you say or a blatant insult big difference.

Nothing wrong with calling someone out tho so I agree with what you are saying but not as well

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By *rLothbrokMan
over a year ago

Lancs

I don’t think porn, and instant access to it, has a large scale influence on this particular behaviour, but there is a greater awareness of such behaviours due to widespread accessibility to social media.

For me, there’s greater influence from a number of public figures, globally, whom express certain views or comments that have reinforced some of these ideologies, intentionally or otherwise.

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By *red333Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

"I don’t think porn, and instant access to it, has a large scale influence on this particular behaviour, but there is a greater awareness of such behaviours due to widespread accessibility to social media.

For me, there’s greater influence from a number of public figures, globally, whom express certain views or comments that have reinforced some of these ideologies, intentionally or otherwise. "
Not the famous American golfer Donald 'duck' Trump

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?"

Misandry and sexualisation are so rife in society now it's painful ...

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

For me, there’s greater influence from a number of public figures, globally, whom express certain views or comments that have reinforced some of these ideologies, intentionally or otherwise. "

Yes social media influencers have a lot to answer for, much like people spreading misinformation with conspiracy theories guy's with a particular agenda can be and in fact ARE very dangerous.

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By *ellhungvweMan
over a year ago

Cheltenham

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?"

I think it is human nature for people in groups to talk about the opposite sex.

If you are a single guy then a group of women on a hen night can be scary. I have seen behaviour from hen nights that is as bad as anything from men.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?

Crikey it's not hard to find examples countless post's on here aimed at single men without wanting to break site rules singling out any particular individual,but we all see these post's daily.

Also in other social media,news etc it seems generally accepted that it's ok to take the piss out of men and treat us like morons.

Kinda understandable I guess given our history.

Is that the same though?

Or is it women challenging men's attitudes?"

Generally the difference I see is that when women are making negative comments about men on here it's about specific behaviour and attitudes, not about men as an entire gender. Yes, some comments are worded badly and as such some people jump on the defensive and begin shouting 'not all men' or ' I'm not like that' - a real bug ear of mine because if you don't display the negative behaviours being mentioned then any post isn't about you.

Whereas of late there's been an abundance of 'Tate' styled attitudes and remarks displayed about women in general with no distinction between individuals and lumping the entire gender into one group.

Both genders talk eachother down at times but there's notable differences in how frequently it occurs and the audience comments are aimed at.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?

Misandry and sexualisation are so rife in society now it's painful ..."

*of men

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By *ealitybitesMan
over a year ago

Belfast

I hear the term "strong independent woman" used all the time but maybe my interpretation of it is different.

As the father of 3 of the above they are respectful,outgoing and confident and get on with everyone.

On fab the term often appears to refer to someone who is the loudest voice in the room and who likes to belittle others under the guise of being strong and independent.

I can't say I've noticed much difference in the way men speak about women because I don't keep that type of company.

Within the walls of fab though there is definitely a lack of respect in how a lot of people talk to each other and it's not gender specific.

The forum reaction is very gender specific though and the fact that many women comment on the imbalance speaks volumes in itself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Most Porn gives false expectations when it comes to sex. The professional stuff is often made with male viewers in mind. It's worrying that young people learn about sex from porn and therefore think that violence and objectification are "normal" .... expectations of anal sex, choking and rough sex ... all of which can be enjoyable in a menu sexual experiences and in the right context but with wrong person can go horribly wrong.

We've lived with misogyny and the patriarchy for thousands of years so change is always a difficult and often those who will lose privilege feel understandably under attack. We have a long way to go before we really do have equality between males and females of the human species.

In the meantime kindness, civilty and respect goes a long way.

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By *amnaughtybutniceWoman
over a year ago

tf1

I think that the views of men that women are there to please them and not equal are deeply ingrained and it’s a hard thought process to break if you have been bought up with those views and people close to you have those views.

Unfortunately the likes of Tate reinforce that and he has such a following that I worry for our future children.

That also follows that women have deeply ingrained thought processes that are hard to break.

We all have to catch our thoughts sometimes but I see a lot more men with downright sexist and horrible views than I do women.

A lot of men say what they think you want to hear but when you scratch the surface they don’t like a woman who is sexually doing the same as them, they don’t like women who are independent and out earn them. It threatens them.

It’s a shame that we cannot all just support each other and big each other up.

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By *ilsaGeorgeCouple
over a year ago

kent

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?

Misandry and sexualisation are so rife in society now it's painful ...

*of men "

This is the first time I’ve seen the word ‘misandry’ used on a fab forum. Perhaps that says something all by itself. Thanks for posting x

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I hear the term "strong independent woman" used all the time but maybe my interpretation of it is different.

As the father of 3 of the above they are respectful,outgoing and confident and get on with everyone.

On fab the term often appears to refer to someone who is the loudest voice in the room and who likes to belittle others under the guise of being strong and independent.

I can't say I've noticed much difference in the way men speak about women because I don't keep that type of company.

Within the walls of fab though there is definitely a lack of respect in how a lot of people talk to each other and it's not gender specific.

The forum reaction is very gender specific though and the fact that many women comment on the imbalance speaks volumes in itself."

I agree. Also when I here people spouting what a strong independent woman they are and how they don’t “need” a man I just think Jesus I bet she’s a piece of work. You can be that without shouting about it. And I’m one who often comments on the imbalance and double standards with some threads. The recent camel toe V tightey white threads was just beyond belief!

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By *ansoffateMan
over a year ago

Sagittarius A

I think once you start making assumptions about an individual based on your perception of them belonging to a group be it based on gender, race etc - it's a slippery slope.

You end up with Tate type thoughts like. Women like this or want that. The problem is perpetuated by social media. I've worked with influencers and they are encouraged to promote controversy, because that gets

traffic.

And so debates get polarised, affinity bias leads to echo chambers and ultimately the cyber-balkanisation warned about 20 years ago when the internet started getting dominated by corporate giants - has occurred. Marketing utilises human psychology to make sales and it plays on people's insecurities. Real men drink Tate endorsed super protein shakes or whatever shit they are selling.

I take people as I find them. You get out what you put in with me. Do I make derogatory remarks to women no, unless it's a sexual degradation thing and they love it. Do I experience them from women no, but I don't really care. Unless (see above)

Whether it's men-hating or women-hating the best thing you can do is not buy into it. In my opinion.

I think policing language has an undesired effect of exacerbating affinity bias, as people are more likely to seek groups where their views are received well.

It is not our differences that divide us, it is our inability to acknowledge, understand and celebrate those differences.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"I hear the term "strong independent woman" used all the time but maybe my interpretation of it is different.

As the father of 3 of the above they are respectful,outgoing and confident and get on with everyone.

On fab the term often appears to refer to someone who is the loudest voice in the room and who likes to belittle others under the guise of being strong and independent.

I can't say I've noticed much difference in the way men speak about women because I don't keep that type of company.

Within the walls of fab though there is definitely a lack of respect in how a lot of people talk to each other and it's not gender specific.

The forum reaction is very gender specific though and the fact that many women comment on the imbalance speaks volumes in itself.

*hear. Not here

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Okay just speaking from my own personal experience, for me (not all) but many men over 45 display more misogyny and disrespect than the younger ones. Not sure what this means and only my particular experience x I like to think that this indicates things are getting better. I’m only ever disrespectful in retaliation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 20/04/23 09:04:50]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I hear the term "strong independent woman" used all the time but maybe my interpretation of it is different.

As the father of 3 of the above they are respectful,outgoing and confident and get on with everyone.

On fab the term often appears to refer to someone who is the loudest voice in the room and who likes to belittle others under the guise of being strong and independent.

I can't say I've noticed much difference in the way men speak about women because I don't keep that type of company.

Within the walls of fab though there is definitely a lack of respect in how a lot of people talk to each other and it's not gender specific.

The forum reaction is very gender specific though and the fact that many women comment on the imbalance speaks volumes in itself.

*hear. Not here

Which thread was this? Need to investigate

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

I'm not sure I agree with the premise since the dawn of time malarky. I grew up on a farm going back generations. Women were expected to work at hard as any man, being cute or anything else like that was unimportant. Being able to produce offspring to maintain the farm and doing your fair share of work was the important thing. In order to survive, and I think this is probably true for the majority of working class people since forever. Survival was important you wanted the best partner to enable that.

As for the forum, I can't say I've seen anywhere where men have said women have randomly messaged them to insult them. Or that I've seen women target men but I'm not on here as much these days so may have missed it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t look at things collectively, all women are not one way just as not all men have a certain attitude.

But I do see some peoples attitudes changing with what’s happening around them, influenced by things in socially media. Shouty people certainly do shout.

I like cool people who I can talk to and understand, not those that just tag along with the current movement and attitudes.

She/he used to be a sweet girl/dude, now she’s/he’s an asshole,! … I think this a lot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men and women are different and instead of trying to outdo each other, aim to accept and utilise the differences so that they compliment each other, theres far more to be gained by both parties.

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By *ehindHerEyesCouple
over a year ago

SomewhereOnlyWeKnow

Throughout history there has always been power struggles and there is today it is just played out in different contexts.

When it comes to gender, make vs female to keep it simple it’s a complex issue.

Men are brought up to be the stronger of the 2 both emotionally and physically which in itself can be damaging and limiting. There are many successful social media creators that make plenty of money feeding into the fact that a man needs to be a man and if you aren’t following certain guidelines then you aren’t a real man.

Quite rightly females are taking control of the power equality but unfortunately they are also becoming a target for social media creators through telling them that they can have it all without giving anything. Girl power to the extreme.

With the rise of sex social media even a below average female is being told you can sell your body and make lots of money in safety. This leads in turn to a sense of entitlement and I mean in the sense that watching/listening to various podcasts that women are mainly looking for that 1% man. It’s a small percentage of women I will grant you that but at the same token it then becomes a movement.

Naturally women are only attracted to 20% of men, and men are attracted to 50% of women so this in itself creates an imbalance which means that more men will put up with being treated badly trying to get into that 20%. When something from both sides becomes a learned behaviour then society has a problem which we are seeing now.

Marc

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think you're spot on, sadly some women have taken equality to mean treating men in a similarly derogatory way to the way women were treated historically.

Respect for all as humans is a long way off "

'historically'? it's still going on, just watch the news, or see it in the workplace, or a lads night out, or...

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

^^where do these percentages come from? Who quantified this stuff?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can you give examples of how women are now talking about men in the same derogatory way?

Yes i be interested to know. Is it like me asking men if they have my perfect cock? Lol"

Hang on you said that you weren't trans in the other thread

(Where's the stick poke emojis when you want one)

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

For me, there’s greater influence from a number of public figures, globally, whom express certain views or comments that have reinforced some of these ideologies, intentionally or otherwise. "

Exactly this. Porn maybe be part of the problem but thecreal issue are the likes of Andew Tate monetising incel views

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

I do not believe men and women are 'equal'

I believe that men and women should have equal rights.

Why should this be a binary issue ?

People are either mindful and respectful of other human beings or they are not.

Many men are disrespectful to women because they think it weak not to be as they see themselves as protectors or owners and they do not fear women physically as they do other men.

Many women are disrespectful to men as they haven't yet learned not to be cheeky children and rely on a man knowing he cannot be seen to verbally or physically protect himself.

From my perspective and I won't budge on this .. women such as those above and the loud mouths who think this signals strength take their lead from that type of man and sadly are too myopic to know it.

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By *2000ManMan
over a year ago

Worthing

My very slim build and tall height coupled with being very quiet and shy in my teens and 20's made me an easy target amongst women at my early places of work. Even some relatives joined in with mocking. Not all but a lot. Either about my look or lack of relationship/sex life, nothing was held back. As I have got older, "filled out" physically and more confident all that stopped years ago. It never changed my attitude towards women and I get along with them just fine and love them just as I always have done.

Just my side of the story.

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By *ehindHerEyesCouple
over a year ago

SomewhereOnlyWeKnow

"^^where do these percentages come from? Who quantified this stuff?"

The percentages are taken from numerous sources of data then feeds into the algorithms of dating apps etc. The ultimate goal of a dating app is to create more matches so that users spend more time/money with them so their data has to be accurate.

They don’t care about if someone finds a partner or not they are just wanting better user experience

Marc

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

There is a some in their somewhere not everyone acts that way might only be a majority but they seriously need to educate themselves

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Marc"

I see this 20% figure a lot. The evidence I've seen cited to support it doesn't stand up IMO. And it's used to justify statements like "men will put up with being treated badly".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Marc

I see this 20% figure a lot. The evidence I've seen cited to support it doesn't stand up IMO. And it's used to justify statements like "men will put up with being treated badly". "

Numbers wise 1 in 5 doesn't seem wildly off, I'd have thought on a would you wouldn't you basis it'd be actually closer to 1 in 10 or possibly more. Would I say that I would do half of every women I see? Absolutely fricking not!!!! Even if they were limited to a narrower 5 years up and 5 years down from my own age. Understand that it's a more global assessment but it seems alot on the male side to me. No wonder women think that guys will fuck anything if that's truly reflective

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

Men have controlled women financially, sexually and socially for centuries. Some of us will no longer have this in our lives. If I see misogyny on here or in my life I call it out. Recently trans-chauvanism has reared its head. If I perceive a man as decent I have all the time in the world for him. I don't want entitled men in my life. I don't want to just please the men in my life.

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By *ehindHerEyesCouple
over a year ago

SomewhereOnlyWeKnow

Marc

I see this 20% figure a lot. The evidence I've seen cited to support it doesn't stand up IMO. And it's used to justify statements like "men will put up with being treated badly". "

Fab is not an ideal place to quantify this but from a male perspective there are a certain number of males who get a majority of meets. These males do not put up with being treated badly because they don’t have to.

Men in this site have 2 options. You either maintain your boundaries and risk not meeting or you allow those boundaries to be stretched in the hope that you will get a meet.

This is just my opinion of course based on what I can see and it goes some way to explain the OP

Marc

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

I think I must be the only woman on earth who has never felt that my gender has impacted my life in any way. I HAVE experienced disability discrimination and that impacts me pretty much every day, but have two X chromosomes hasn't had a jot of impact on my education, work etc.

I treat people at face value, as does Mr KC.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

King's Crustacean

"I think I must be the only woman on earth who has never felt that my gender has impacted my life in any way. I HAVE experienced disability discrimination and that impacts me pretty much every day, but have two X chromosomes hasn't had a jot of impact on my education, work etc.

I treat people at face value, as does Mr KC. "

It has impacted on every woman whether she sees it or not however I'm not a fan of gender wars due to it distracting from more important issues in societies worldwide - class.

I have more in common with a working class man than I ever could with an aristocratic woman. I keep my sights fixed on that fact.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

I treat people at face value, as does Mr KC. "

Misogyny is so normalised and embedded in society, I don't think we realise it is happening at times.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

With the rise of sex social media even a below average female is being told you can sell your body and make lots of money in safety. This leads in turn to a sense of entitlement...

Naturally women are only attracted to 20% of men, and men are attracted to 50% of women....

Marc"

OK.

I've a couple of questions on this.

What's an 'below average female' ?

And I'm more than curious where you got your stats on attraction. That's a very broad generalisation based purely on gender.

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By *ehindHerEyesCouple
over a year ago

SomewhereOnlyWeKnow

With the rise of sex social media even a below average female is being told you can sell your body and make lots of money in safety. This leads in turn to a sense of entitlement...

Naturally women are only attracted to 20% of men, and men are attracted to 50% of women....

Marc

OK.

I've a couple of questions on this.

What's an 'below average female' ?

And I'm more than curious where you got your stats on attraction. That's a very broad generalisation based purely on gender.

I did think twice about using those words

I’m basing it on attraction poles that have been conducted over time.

The stats are the common ones used by dating sites in their algorithms to decide which profiles to show to who based on which way they swipe. They are widely accepted stats from women only showing interest in 20% of males whereas male show an interest in 50% of women

Marc

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

I treat people at face value, as does Mr KC.

Misogyny is so normalised and embedded in society, I don't think we realise it is happening at times."

I agree with you and Granny on this, yes. Perhaps I should elaborate. I'm female and I have had exactly the same educational opportunities as any man. I've attended university undergrad and postgrad. I've acquired employment in the same way as men and do not feel or believe I've ever been directly discriminated against due to my gender, in employment. My housing needs have been met irrespective of my gender. I've never experienced sexual assault or attempted sexual assault - I know I'm damn lucky in this regard. So, despite the entrenched misogyny in "the system" and in society, I personally don't feel that being female has held me back or negatively impacted me.

Acquiring a disability and using a wheelchair HAS negatively impacted me and I experience overt discrimination. Acquiring and changing employment is a minefield now, because of disability discrimination in recruitment practices and in employers being unwilling to make adjustments etc. In addition, people who don't know me, who see me out and about seem to automatically categorise me as weak and feeble and in need of constant supervision. I have unwanted comments all the time. I'm asked where my carer is frequently. I do NOT want Mildred, age 62 offering to push me up a hill, because I can do it myself. It just takes a bit longer than walking up the hill. It's very frustrating and much more of an "ism" to me personally, than being female is.

But, I know my experience isn't everyone's.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

With the rise of sex social media even a below average female is being told you can sell your body and make lots of money in safety. This leads in turn to a sense of entitlement...

Naturally women are only attracted to 20% of men, and men are attracted to 50% of women....

Marc

OK.

I've a couple of questions on this.

What's an 'below average female' ?

And I'm more than curious where you got your stats on attraction. That's a very broad generalisation based purely on gender.

I did think twice about using those words

I’m basing it on attraction poles that have been conducted over time.

Marc"

OK.

I'd be very wary of staring that anyone is 'below average' without offering up some kind of argument to back it up, and personally there's very few people in this world I'd be happy to say fitted that label and it would be down to personality, beliefs and attitude over any physical attribute.

As for the stats? I'd still like to see proof and hard data. Just because they're numbers widely touted by dating apps that doesn't make them accurate.

And even if they were.....that apportions no fault or blame on the women and says much more about the men. You can't view someone negatively for having and sticking to personal preferences over widening them to boost the chances of success.

That's like saying reducing the pass mark for exams will give better results because more people will pass. Or lowering the standard required to drive an HGV will increase driver numbers.

It may help achieve an objective to an extent but the result won't be as good as if the original criteria had been adhered to.

Also known as 'any holes a goal'.....

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By *ts the taking part thatMan
over a year ago

southampton

Agreed, back to the OP it's true we're & should be equal but important to remember we're also different. Our mentalities in the two genders are mostly controlled by differing hormones & levels but personality can override a lot of this and not necessarily for the better.

The hormone difference is very noticeable in the trans argument where many men wanting to be women are unreasonable in their pursuit of rights as are happy to ride roughshod over women's rights in private female spaces which is indicative of a chauvinistic attitude perversely as of course the pretence is they are all women.

If more reasonable society would be working towards spaces for men, spaces for women & spaces for unisex but many of the aggressive male trans demand to be treated as biological women which will never be accepted by the majority.

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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

I wrote a big long post in reply to this thread but deleted it all because I thought what's the point.

In short yes there is misogyny on here and out side of here,and quite often and despite it being denied a lot on here there is just as much misandry as well.

Personally I have never felt the need for any of it. I've never seen myself as not equal to anyone else male or female and I don't need to shout about it .I worked in a very male orientated industry for almost 30 years and never once was treated differently because I was a woman and nor did I ever expect to be treated differently.

I treat everyone as an equal and anyone who doesn't treat me the same I have no time for. As far as I'm concerned there is no hierarchy but there are assholes on both sides who push their own agendas.

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By *rispyDuckMan
over a year ago

Chinese Takeaway near you

I think we all just need to treat each other with respect & think twice before venting & posting some comments/ opinions

. Words over text can be perceived differently than words spoken by mouth.

And I would also add ‘it’s ok to vent’ when someone disgruntled you, just try not to use general/umbrella terms & insult a whole group of people because of the bad deeds of 1. For example 1 guy does something wrong & someone posts ‘all men are trash’ or a guy gets used financially by some girl then posts ‘all women are gold diggers’

People from both genders reading such posts can be triggered & cause conflict. Hope you get what I’m trying to say

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By *ornucopiaMan
over a year ago

Bexley

I try not to be derogatory on rogation days (coming up in mid May).

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Thanks all been an interesting discussion

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By *rder66Man
over a year ago

Tatooine

You will have to be more specific, when exactly was the begining of human kind, at what part of the evolutionary process ?

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

The idea that men are equally discriminated against these days is kinda wild to me. Not my experience at all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m going to jump in with a quickie.

I have seen a downturn in attitudes towards women recently. I think internet access plays a big part, men who hate women can now interact with other men who hate women whereas a couple of decades ago they’d have been mostly keeping their views to themselves.

Do I get treated differently in employment as a woman? Not in previous jobs where the skill set is the same across the genders. I currently work in a male environment and I do get treated differently. The guys are more polite to me than they are to the other guys. I can ask for a hand with something particularly physical and they say yes immediately. If it was another man asking I expect they’d take the piss. Pay wise I’ve never seen a disparity between the genders.

Education wise I saw no difference and had the same opportunities as the boys. The difference I saw was classed based not gender based.

Sexually it’s a whole different ball game. If I have sex and enjoy it I’m a slag or a whore. Men have sex and it’s fine. If I don’t have sex I’m frigid. Again, men don’t have sex and it’s fine. I get sexual harassment on the street, in pubs, and online. Men don’t get anywhere near the same amount. I’m way more at risk of being attacked than men are and I have to modify my behaviour to avoid it because society doesn’t ask men to modify theirs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

With the rise of sex social media even a below average female is being told you can sell your body and make lots of money in safety. This leads in turn to a sense of entitlement...

Naturally women are only attracted to 20% of men, and men are attracted to 50% of women....

Marc

OK.

I've a couple of questions on this.

What's an 'below average female' ?

And I'm more than curious where you got your stats on attraction. That's a very broad generalisation based purely on gender.

I did think twice about using those words

I’m basing it on attraction poles that have been conducted over time.

Marc"

'Below average female'

I don't believe that the data you quote can be a reflection of societal norms because for that data to be validated you would have to quantify against data from another source other than dating apps surely. People who use dating apps, against people who don't etc. The algorithms will be repeated as people sign up to several sites not just one site

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By *ansoffateMan
over a year ago

Sagittarius A

"I’m going to jump in with a quickie.

Education wise I saw no difference and had the same opportunities as the boys. The difference I saw was classed based not gender based.

Echo chambers, cyber-balkanisation

Slut-shaming

Madonna - Whore complex

Completely agree with you on all of that.

I have had sexual harassment in an all female work environment. Not that it detracts from your points, just that I know it can be shit.

Men who are behaving in those ways are dickheads. Should be challenged whenever it happens.

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By *ensuallover1000Man
over a year ago

Somewhere In The Ether…

Women: They scare me

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Humankind (see what I did there) will never get over there prejudices all the while I have a hole in my arse ... As Much as there is to like about each other there is equally enough to hate, be it social standing, colour, religious beliefs, ethnicity, financial degrees....etc

We will all be long extinct before the words "love thy neighbour" is learnt by the next dominant species of planet earth

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By *ex HolesMan
over a year ago

Up North

I didn’t read it all but I can say there’s 2 types of women. 1 you’d shag and 1 you wouldn’t

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m going to jump in with a quickie.

Education wise I saw no difference and had the same opportunities as the boys. The difference I saw was classed based not gender based.

Echo chambers, cyber-balkanisation

Slut-shaming

Madonna - Whore complex

Completely agree with you on all of that.

I have had sexual harassment in an all female work environment. Not that it detracts from your points, just that I know it can be shit.

Men who are behaving in those ways are dickheads. Should be challenged whenever it happens."

Yet when women do challenge it, especially on here, it’s turned into a ‘poor men’ debate

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By *ansoffateMan
over a year ago

Sagittarius A

"I’m going to jump in with a quickie.

Education wise I saw no difference and had the same opportunities as the boys. The difference I saw was classed based not gender based.

Echo chambers, cyber-balkanisation

Slut-shaming

Madonna - Whore complex

Completely agree with you on all of that.

I have had sexual harassment in an all female work environment. Not that it detracts from your points, just that I know it can be shit.

Men who are behaving in those ways are dickheads. Should be challenged whenever it happens.

Yet when women do challenge it, especially on here, it’s turned into a ‘poor men’ debate

A valid point. I'll pitch in if I see it happening.

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By *alking HeadMan
over a year ago

Bolton

"I’m going to jump in with a quickie.

Education wise I saw no difference and had the same opportunities as the boys. The difference I saw was classed based not gender based.

Echo chambers, cyber-balkanisation

Slut-shaming

Madonna - Whore complex

Completely agree with you on all of that.

I have had sexual harassment in an all female work environment. Not that it detracts from your points, just that I know it can be shit.

Men who are behaving in those ways are dickheads. Should be challenged whenever it happens.

Yet when women do challenge it, especially on here, it’s turned into a ‘poor men’ debate

A valid point. I'll pitch in if I see it happening."

I wouldn't say that men who don't have sex "get away with it". They can have the piss ripped out of them mercilessly. As a male I am far more likely to be physically attacked by a man than a woman is. The police statistics prove it.

But it isn't "men". It's a small minority of men who are simply thugs. You can't reason with them. It's nothing to do with being male, otherwise most men would be like that and we're really not. A very vocal and violent minority always colour people's opinions. It's individuals that are cuntish, not entire sexes.

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By *teph BitchTV/TS
over a year ago

Manchester

"Since the beginning of human kind I guess men have always viewed women a certain way.

Thankfully times have changed and hopefully we all see each other as equals regardless of gender.

Yes we do sexually objectify others at times but I'm guessing that's just the animalistic side slipping out at times.

However I have noticed quite a steep upturn in the way some men comment about women in a very derogatory and frankly disrespectful way here and other media.

Has porn and the immediate access had an effect on this and other things like the incel movement?

Can I just say this is an observational post and non of my personal views are aired above.

I personally believe that we should all treat eachother with respect and dignity regardless of gender and in fact age, colour or religion.

This is purely for a discussion on society in general and not aimed at any individual.

Peace and love xx

Mr "

I personally treat people how I would hope they would treat me

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By *ickD80Man
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

Unfortunately there will never be perfect harmony between genders, just as there will never be perfect harmony between religions, race, sexuality etc. because there will always be idiots who can’t see past someone’s gender, religion, race, sexuality etc. You say that it’s an animalistic instinct to sexualise others but I think it’s also an animalistic instinct to be territorial, to be wary of outsiders, to want to protect, or improve, your position of power and authority….I’m not condoning it at all but as it’s part of our instincts it will never disappear.

However, my grandfather had to flee his home and country of birth and his brother and mom were murdered because of their religion, people get murdered every day because of their religion or race, people get put in jail because of their sexuality, women in some countries have zero rights or freedom…..I think we can cope with a few derogatory comments…

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By *oshnbex30Couple
over a year ago

yorkshire

Women have just as much rights as men we should be treat as equals it’s 50/50 in our relationship

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By *ickD80Man
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

"Women have just as much rights as men we should be treat as equals it’s 50/50 in our relationship

Thanks for enlightening us, I wasn’t sure whether women have ‘just as much rights as men’ so I’m glad you’ve told me. I’ll have to start treating women as equals now then I guess.

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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

A lot of the time people don't realise times change because that agenda has been purposely slowly fed to us through a period of time that we don't even realise .. and it's for a reason. The old fashioned way was men was men they went out and they grafted hard and provided for his wife and family and the wife was happy with that and focussed her time on loving and raising a family as a woman/mother is more warm and loving and caring. Some counties still stick to this and it works for them. The western society now has the idea that women don't need men and they can work and live without them if they choose, over a course of time this has caused more broken families and divorce rates suicide and depression.. not my opinion just saying

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Self Made Man: Norah Vincent is a good read. About a woman dressed as a man for 18 months who got depressed afterwards because of the way women treated her as a man.

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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

"Self Made Man: Norah Vincent is a good read. About a woman dressed as a man for 18 months who got depressed afterwards because of the way women treated her as a man. "

Absolutely amazing story that is . Ended her own life after the experience .. she said and I strongly stand by this.. they need each other (men) and from women they need love respect and care

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By *ickD80Man
over a year ago

Wolverhampton

"A lot of the time people don't realise times change because that agenda has been purposely slowly fed to us through a period of time that we don't even realise .. and it's for a reason. The old fashioned way was men was men they went out and they grafted hard and provided for his wife and family and the wife was happy with that and focussed her time on loving and raising a family as a woman/mother is more warm and loving and caring. Some counties still stick to this and it works for them. The western society now has the idea that women don't need men and they can work and live without them if they choose, over a course of time this has caused more broken families and divorce rates suicide and depression.. not my opinion just saying "

I completely agree with this, i don’t think it’s a woman’s role to stay at home and raise the family but I think one parent should do it. One of my mates was a stay at home dad while his wife worked full time and he said that raising 2 kids was harder than any job he’s ever had.

Most families now have both parents working full time so they have 2 incomes coming into the house but the average standard of living hasn’t improved from when most families only had one income to live off. All that’s happened is mortgages and bills have increased and they have to fork out for child care…..it makes no sense at all, the fat cats are getting fatter by making women believe it’s better to go to work full time rather than raise their kids. It’s amazing how you can make someone do exactly what you want them to do by telling them it’s their right to choose to do exactly what it is you want them to do and that by doing what it is you don’t want them to do they’re wasting their opportunities….

By making people believe that staying home to raise a family is a wasted life they’ve managed to get us to pay twice as much in taxes, pay twice as much for our houses and utilities and spend less time with our kids.

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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

Yes.. by having two full time working parents the children massively miss out on love and election and family time .. unfortunately the way the western civilisation has been driven and pushed into this lifestyle it's almost impossible to avoid .. and a huge percentage of these families end up divorced and separated due to the stress of working life and lack of love shown between the parents due to the busy working life and also like it or not the male doesn't feel he is fulfilling his natural role as a provider and feels emasculated and won't be his true self and this has a effect on the way his wife sees him and feels about him

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

Men controlled the family, finances were his, he did what he liked. Women were excluded from wider society with very little opportunities. The idea that women didn't work is a myth, many working class women did work. Not all men provided either.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’d like to see how you’d make a family with children succeed with one income.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

What complete and utter codswallop. A normal man does not feel emasculated if his partner works, earns money and, heaven forbid, earns more than him. Only an insecure and likely misogynistic man would feel "emasculated".

And my children haven't lacked any love, thank you very much.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

And my children haven't lacked any love, thank you very much. "

The only things missing from that were lines about women no longer needing a man to change a light bulb for them and expecting men to do some housework.

Do we really want to go back to the 1950's ?

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By *dward_TeagueMan
over a year ago

wolverhampton

This thread is disappointing, I thought we lived in much more enlightened times. The attitudes of some on here are so depressing.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

Not really an accurate version of history , it’s sad that people tend to believe this.

Women were actually held with very high respect, worshippers as Gods even for bringing and nurturing life, also quite prominent in ancient science and engineering , responsible for many inventions taken for granted today.

Until around 9000 years ago when wars and inequality began.

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By *ames-77Man
over a year ago

milton keynes

And my children haven't lacked any love, thank you very much.

The only things missing from that were lines about women no longer needing a man to change a light bulb for them and expecting men to do some housework.

Do we really want to go back to the 1950's ?

Na they are not needed to change a light bulb

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It all stems from insecurities in both genders. For some reason we’re currently going through a phase where everyone wants to ignore the very obvious differences between men and women. Instead we have to pretend both genders are the exact same in every way.

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It all stems from insecurities in both genders. For some reason we’re currently going through a phase where everyone wants to ignore the very obvious differences between men and women. Instead we have to pretend both genders are the exact same in every way.

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out."

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

And my children haven't lacked any love, thank you very much. "

Well said...

My husband was a house husband, he took time out to care for the children and run the house and it worked for us, he had/has an amazing bond with them and when we reflect he says he would not of changed that time he had for anything.

Did he feel emasculated, no, he felt empowered because he was hands on raising his children.

Unfortunately he did feel isolated a little, Parent groups at that time were aimed at Mothers and he didn't feel comfortable going but he did go so the boys could play and socialise. Thankfully attitudes are changing slowly and there is always work to be done

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whose opinion is it if not yours? And why write it if its not yours? Weird.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender."

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

And my children haven't lacked any love, thank you very much.

Well said...

Did he feel emasculated, no, he felt empowered because he was hands on raising his children.

I felt isolated as a mother too. First time around, I was 16 and all the mums at playgroups were mainly 30+. The second time around, I was newly disabled and unable to sit on the floor, skip around or do "circle time". I had to hand my daughter to a leader and watch from the side. I stopped going....

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?"

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

Women are physically smaller, physically less strong, carry children, are naturally more caring and empathetic (this is a scientific fact linked to brain structure and hormones , before anyone says it’s a stereotype), are less risk taking, form deeper connections Etc.

It’s cool to be both things. It’s cool if you naturally feel like none of that applies to you. Whatever. But what’s not cool is trying to act like naturally being either of those things is bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?"

We all hold both masculinity and femininity on our bodies, there are certain traits that go with each.

We can have too much masculine or feminine depending on how balanced we are, how we love our life, how much we recognise it and other factors

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By *onningtonplumberMan
over a year ago

Donnington

Well as I always start with a respectful message here, generally a hi let's chat see if we have common ground see where it goes and I get zero responses I'm guessing the crude disrespectful approach works best

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

It’s cool to be both things. It’s cool if you naturally feel like none of that applies to you. Whatever. But what’s not cool is trying to act like naturally being either of those things is bad."

Being physically bigger/smaller etc is nothing to do with masculinity or femininity. They are simply phenotypic features of being human and determined partly by genetics but significantly by environmental factors such as prenatal and postnatal nutrition. I am female. I am physically taller and stronger than my male colleague here at work. I am able to lift more in the gym than a number of men. That doesn't make me any less female.

And the bit about caring/nurturing is nonsense. Some women are naturally maternal, some are not. Men ditto with paternal feelings.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

Men are indeed biological stronger, faster and more specially aware. This is fact.

I’m not sure that sex drive and risk taking is is proven though as biological or that when are naturally more caring and empathetic but more about culture and inequality of women that pushes people into roles where those things are developed.

There’s all kinds of studies on this , most are garbage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

It’s cool to be both things. It’s cool if you naturally feel like none of that applies to you. Whatever. But what’s not cool is trying to act like naturally being either of those things is bad.

Men are indeed biological stronger, faster and more specially aware. This is fact.

There’s all kinds of studies on this , most are garbage."

There’s plenty of studies that show the effect of the endocrine system and testosterone and oestrogen on behaviour. As well as structural differences in our brains. The fact it’s mirrored in *almost* every species supports it too.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

It’s cool to be both things. It’s cool if you naturally feel like none of that applies to you. Whatever. But what’s not cool is trying to act like naturally being either of those things is bad.

Men are indeed biological stronger, faster and more specially aware. This is fact.

There’s all kinds of studies on this , most are garbage.

Right, well I must be a man then

My oestrogen has been shut off for the past two months for medical reasons and I have experienced absolutely nil, zero difference in my personality, character, motherly instincts etc. No difference.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

It’s cool to be both things. It’s cool if you naturally feel like none of that applies to you. Whatever. But what’s not cool is trying to act like naturally being either of those things is bad.

Men are indeed biological stronger, faster and more specially aware. This is fact.

There’s all kinds of studies on this , most are garbage.

Yes I know and most are garbage. I was part of one such study at UoY, they got us to stand on stances and do exercises that raise your T , then immediately play on car simulation software , they then crunch the data to prove what they wanted and had already decided - High T = more risk taking. They didn’t write that we’d all be on an all dayer.

These studies by academia are mostly a load of rubbish to get funding. There are men with very high T that are introverts , Type B&C’s and no appetite for competition or risk.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Marc

I see this 20% figure a lot. The evidence I've seen cited to support it doesn't stand up IMO. And it's used to justify statements like "men will put up with being treated badly".

Men in this site have 2 options. You either maintain your boundaries and risk not meeting or you allow those boundaries to be stretched in the hope that you will get a meet.

This is just my opinion of course based on what I can see and it goes some way to explain the OP

Marc"

The Pareto principle applied to dating (80% of women will go after 20% of men) is widely quoted and used as a way to make all sorts of generalisations about men and women. The oft-quoted figures are based on (as far as I can tell) a 2015 Tinder "study" which was one bloke polling 27 people. And some OK Cupid data. I think 2009 but can't confirm.

The data could be interpreted in different ways and thus different conclusions drawn. It isn't valid or reliable or even recent. It's rubbish.

However in 2018 the University of Oxford (oxii) analysed 150,000 dating profiles over a decade. They found that women were much more likely to message more average looking men. Why isn't that oft-cited?

Every thread on this kind of topic - average men say they're doing fine here. Every thread - some women say they're after connection, decency and reliability as well as sexual attraction. And yet...a high proportion of men don't meet those criteria. They send sexualised messages from profiles with little to no information. It's not rocket science why selective women don't choose them. Would you choose them?

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By *alking HeadMan
over a year ago

Bolton

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

It’s cool to be both things. It’s cool if you naturally feel like none of that applies to you. Whatever. But what’s not cool is trying to act like naturally being either of those things is bad.

Men are indeed biological stronger, faster and more specially aware. This is fact.

There’s all kinds of studies on this , most are garbage.

Right, well I must be a man then

My oestrogen has been shut off for the past two months for medical reasons and I have experienced absolutely nil, zero difference in my personality, character, motherly instincts etc. No difference. "

But is that not also because your behaviours are also by virtue of nurture not just nature? I think biology does lead our behaviours to a degree, it's our societies that amplify these differences.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

This is causing backlash on both sides.

I don’t really get the need to deny our nature. Men and women are both great and both provide equally important things to the world. Masculinity is great, femininity is great.

But currently those traits are being portrayed as negative, which is leading some people to lash out.

What is masculinity and femininity?

Is it men = providing, tough, decisive?

Is it femininity = nurturing, soft, submissive?

I feel like do whatever comes naturally, not feel like you have to be forced into a box that doesn't fit because of gender.

I agree people should be whatever they feel like. Which is why, personally, I don’t like the current messages that seem to be policing how women and men should act and be perceived.

What do you mean by masculinity and femininity please?

I mean the dominant traits that are scientifically proven to be naturally present in the majority of people in each of those genders.

For example - men are physically bigger, physically stronger, more aggressive and competitive, have a higher sex drive, more risk taking etc.

It’s cool to be both things. It’s cool if you naturally feel like none of that applies to you. Whatever. But what’s not cool is trying to act like naturally being either of those things is bad.

Men are indeed biological stronger, faster and more specially aware. This is fact.

There’s all kinds of studies on this , most are garbage.

Right, well I must be a man then

My oestrogen has been shut off for the past two months for medical reasons and I have experienced absolutely nil, zero difference in my personality, character, motherly instincts etc. No difference.

But is that not also because your behaviours are also by virtue of nurture not just nature? I think biology does lead our behaviours to a degree, it's our societies that amplify these differences."

Trust me, my motherly instincts are not the result of nurture from my own mother. I've deliberately done everything in my power to be the polar opposite to her as a mother and a person.

We are all the product of the interaction of our genetic traits with our environment (i.e nature + nurture).

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

When women were protesting in London about having the “right” to walk the streets safely at night, I wrote the following, I believe that this still rings true (for me).

There is a simple way to protect women, it is the way that all things are protected; with equality of value, with the fundamental principle that we all have a right to “be”, to be heard, to be respected, to be valued, to be strong, to be weak, to be wrong, to be right, to be indifferent. And the only way to protect the right to “be” is to punish, proportionally, those that deny that right, to deny them the ability to deny equality of value. Why is “searching for equality” a thing, what human being alive believes that their actions or opinions that deny equality are justifiable? And how do we find that as a destination within ourselves?

We can blame, superficially, that we are a product of evolution, and that because of the roles that nature dealt us, one group must dominate whilst another group submits, but that is something for the animals of this world, those without conscious thought, that act on instinct alone and do not have a recorded history. Are we animals? Have we learnt nothing of true value? Are we so blinded by the media, which baits our animalistic tendencies, that reaches deep within us to dig out that primeval whisper of our being, and for what purpose? To sell you something, or to make you a product to be sold.

This whole world is now geared towards the accumulation of wealth and the false dreams that the wealth we accumulate bring. To protect women, to protect all people who fear, we must systematically dismantle the institutions and the culture which speaks to our primeval whisper, we have become Bowerbirds, creating “arches” of our “success” to be measured against to be valued for and yet there is no value in the accumulation of anything, other than friends, memories and love. What price can you put on those? What power gain is contrived from those?

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By *arktightsMan
over a year ago

banchory

When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

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By *erence IIMan
over a year ago

Irrelevant

"Since the beginning of human kind I guess men have always viewed women a certain way."

How have we reached the 21st cervical and people still believe that "men" and "women" are two completely separate groups of people with behaviour that is fixed and based purely on their biological sex?

"In times past women where treated as fuzzy fluffy bunnies with the only purpose of pleasing men, being there for producing offspring and not allowed to have an opinion (see the old harry Enfield sketch Women know your place)"

See comment above, human history is long and varied with cultural differences that have changed significantly with time and place. No matter how well a comedy sketch matches your own personal experience, it is, at best, no more than a reflection of one society at one point in time.

"Thankfully times have changed and hopefully we all see each other as equals regardless of gender"

Have they? Do we? Social norms have changed for sure but but read any novel or story going back to Homer and you'll find men and women behaving to each other in ways that would fit remarkably well into our so called modern ideals.

Yes we do sexually objectify others at times but I'm guessing that's just the animalistic side slipping out at times.

However I have noticed quite a steep upturn in the way some men comment about women in a very derogatory and frankly disrespectful way here and other media.

Has porn and the immediate access had an effect on this and other things like the incel movement?

I'd suggest reading up on confirmation bias, the Baader-Meinhof phenomenon. Porn is off course just the latest in a long line of things that have been blamed for the alledged moral collapse of society. It used to be violent video games, before that horror films, the radio, women wearing trousers and so on. Every few decades or so there is a new "vice" that allegedly is causing humanity to implode. Porn has been the go to for quite some time now, give it 5 or 10 years and it'll be something new. Also, this statement seems completely at odds with what you said before - in the past women were viewed as only being there for men's pleasure yet times have changed. I'm confused as to which of these viewpoints you hold? We're women somehow viewed as only for men's pleasure whilst simultaneously being discussed by groups of men using respectful and inclusive language?

[Quote]

Or is just maybe possible that men and women really aren't that different? Some are kind and thoughtful, others are nasty, selfish, judgemental and viscous?

Can I just say this is an observational post and non of my personal views are aired above.

I personally believe that we should all treat eachother with respect and dignity regardless of gender and in fact age, colour or religion.

This is purely for a discussion on society in general and not aimed at any individual.

Peace and love xx

Can we please please please stop with this divisive view of men and women? We're all humans. If we have to divide ourselves into two camps how about we do it by who is nice and who isn't regardless of biological sex?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When women were protesting in London about having the “right” to walk the streets safely at night, I wrote the following, I believe that this still rings true (for me).

I struggled to see what you meant by the last para, but I do very much agree with the tenor of what you've said. I remember that time very well, although I'm not in London.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Since the beginning of human kind I guess men have always viewed women a certain way.

"Thankfully times have changed and hopefully we all see each other as equals regardless of gender"

Yes we do sexually objectify others at times but I'm guessing that's just the animalistic side slipping out at times.

However I have noticed quite a steep upturn in the way some men comment about women in a very derogatory and frankly disrespectful way here and other media.

Has porn and the immediate access had an effect on this and other things like the incel movement?

[Quote]

Or is just maybe possible that men and women really aren't that different? Some are kind and thoughtful, others are nasty, selfish, judgemental and viscous?

Can I just say this is an observational post and non of my personal views are aired above.

I personally believe that we should all treat eachother with respect and dignity regardless of gender and in fact age, colour or religion.

This is purely for a discussion on society in general and not aimed at any individual.

Peace and love xx

Men and women are different. I don't think it's divisive to say so.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that…."

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

A warped idea that women would enjoy that shit. Where do these ideas come from? Porn? Ingrained mysogyny passed from generation to generation and what can be done to counteract it. I would hate my son to have grown up believing that this shit is ok

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

From experience, I wouldn't say it's porn related - a lot of women have asked me to do it to them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

From experience, I wouldn't say it's porn related - a lot of women have asked me to do it to them."

Women watch porn too no?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes, but...

I choose not to reply with my actual thoughts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, but...

I choose not to reply with my actual thoughts."

Fair enough, that is your perogative of course. I didn't mean porn was wholly to blame, just putting it out that it could be a factor

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, but...

I choose not to reply with my actual thoughts.

Fair enough, that is your perogative of course. I didn't mean porn was wholly to blame, just putting it out that it could be a factor "

I think there are far more sinister factors, but perhaps that kind of porn help perpetuate that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Must be a Friday night. Some alcohol related posts?

Treat women with respect, don't take the piss, dont feel threatened by women at work or in life.

Why the fook is it hard?

The rest should be fun?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes, but...

I choose not to reply with my actual thoughts.

Fair enough, that is your perogative of course. I didn't mean porn was wholly to blame, just putting it out that it could be a factor

I think there are far more sinister factors, but perhaps that kind of porn help perpetuate that."

Oh absolutely, I agree with you about the sinister aspects, again another factor

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By *erence IIMan
over a year ago

Irrelevant

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

Try looking up the book "my secret garden" it was written before I was born and certainly before porn became mainstream. I think people who blame porn for creating ideas don't understand how our minds work - or come to that how sales work. You will only ever make money selling stuff people want. There is absolutely no need for porn directors to waste money creating content they then have to try to convince people to watch stuff even though prior to it's existence they would have hatred it when it's a far simpler job to create content they know will sell. Whether you or I like it, if a given genre of porn is popular it simply means that it is a common fantasy.

This site is full of women who are sub, want a daddy, have got profile names where he is master/sir and she is usually slut, women who enjoy CNC and all kinds of kinks including breath play. Why is it these are all acceptable and commenting on them is kink shaming but if a man watches porn depicting the exact same thing he is automatically a misogynist?

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By *erence IIMan
over a year ago

Irrelevant

Men and women are different. I don't think it's divisive to say so. "

Are they? Name me one characteristic that women have that men don't.

I will readily accept that on average men display certain types of behaviour more than women and vice versa but that doesn't make them different. For any conceivable human behavoir there will always be some women that are more likely to display it than some men and likewise some men will display it more than some women. Biological reproductive differences aside, there is nothing to distinguish the set of all men from the set of all women.

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By *red333Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

Respect goes where respect is due irrespective of sexual orientation unless of course you are just disrespectful

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men and women are different. I don't think it's divisive to say so.

Are they? Name me one characteristic that women have that men don't.

Hormones. I mean - we didn't just appear as a patriarchal society out out of nowhere for no reason. Biology is (unfortunately) definitely an element, but certainly not something that should be a defining aspect.

But I agree with your sentiment apart from that.

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By *erence IIMan
over a year ago

Irrelevant

Men and women are different. I don't think it's divisive to say so.

Are they? Name me one characteristic that women have that men don't.

But I agree with your sentiment apart from that."

Which hormone do women have that men don't (or vice versa)?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men and women are different. I don't think it's divisive to say so.

Are they? Name me one characteristic that women have that men don't.

But I agree with your sentiment apart from that.

Which hormone do women have that men don't (or vice versa)?"

It's biology. It's not about that and more about the different levels, and the effect that's had through evolution.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

You can't be arguing that because both men and women have testosterone and estrogen that we're the same?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Maybe we're approaching this from different thinking/directions?

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By *erence IIMan
over a year ago

Irrelevant

"You can't be arguing that because both men and women have testosterone and estrogen that we're the same?"

No. I'm saying men and women don't fit into two separate and distinct groups - that's not saying they are the same. I believe that there is as big a gulf in behavoirs, attitudes and beliefs between some men as there are between some men and some women. I'm saying that "men" don't think this or feel that any more than "women" think or feel the other.

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By *erence IIMan
over a year ago

Irrelevant

"Maybe we're approaching this from different thinking/directions?"

Possibly - I agree with a lot of your posts. I think we share a fair bit in how we see the world.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us? "

Read Women's Madness, it's all part of living with misogyny and how women adapt to survive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Read Women's Madness, it's all part of living with misogyny and how women adapt to survive."

I'm full up with my reading right now - how does that relate to my comment? Are you calling my kink internalised misogyny?

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By *ools and the brain OP Couple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us? "

Oh here we go with the shaming card.

It's not shaming pointing out that men assuming that all women want to be treated violently is wrong!

It's sends out completely the wrong message and warps guy's ideas of how to treat someone.

What two consenting adults decide to do within the law is entirely up to them,if you enjoy it and a willing participant then no shaming here your body your choice.

You seem to be missing the point this is about unsolicited messages from stranger's posting some pretty scary stuff.

They don't know if the women they messaged could have been a victim of domestic violence or an attack of some kind and sending random messages I would imagine be pretty traumatic.

So bringing up the kink shame card is not on .

It's about a bigger social issue not just what a small minority see as a kink.

I suggest if guy's are into this they should read a profile, send messages getting to know a person first and gently mention it rather than just assuming.

This is what I meant about men's attitudes towards women being skewed by porn.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us? "

I get that some women enjoy it, it should not be assumed that all women enjoy it.

And where have I shamed anyone? I just said I don't think it is ok to send descriptions of sexual violence to an inbox unsolicited, I am allowed to say that without being accused of kink shaming. Sorry but I do find that disturbing and that 'shit' - meaning men sending content unsolicited is offensive to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Men and women are different. I don't think it's divisive to say so.

Are they? Name me one characteristic that women have that men don't.

I haven't said "all men are this" or "all men do that", yet you've replied to me as though I have. I haven't said men and women have nothing in common. I've said it's not divisive to say men and women are different.

Not sure why you choose to get outraged about that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

I get that some women enjoy it, it should not be assumed that all women enjoy it.

Shame - you use the words shit and warped about this topic. Yes I'd interpret that as shaming when you directly questioned why women might enjoy the activity using those words.

I very clearly said men should not expect it nor should it be viewed as a normal sexual activity particularly to young people.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

I get that some women enjoy it, it should not be assumed that all women enjoy it.

Shame - you use the words shit and warped about this topic. Yes I'd interpret that as shaming when you directly questioned why women might enjoy the activity using those words.

I very clearly said men should not expect it nor should it be viewed as a normal sexual activity particularly to young people. "

I didn't actively say men shouldn't send those messages to women - anymore than they should send any sexually explicitly messages unsolicited. It was implicit in my answer I thought.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Oh here we go with the shaming card.

It's not shaming pointing out that men assuming that all women want to be treated violently is wrong!

It's sends out completely the wrong message and warps guy's ideas of how to treat someone.

What two consenting adults decide to do within the law is entirely up to them,if you enjoy it and a willing participant then no shaming here your body your choice.

You seem to be missing the point this is about unsolicited messages from stranger's posting some pretty scary stuff.

They don't know if the women they messaged could have been a victim of domestic violence or an attack of some kind and sending random messages I would imagine be pretty traumatic.

So bringing up the kink shame card is not on .

It's about a bigger social issue not just what a small minority see as a kink.

I suggest if guy's are into this they should read a profile, send messages getting to know a person first and gently mention it rather than just assuming.

This is what I meant about men's attitudes towards women being skewed by porn."

Thank you, glad someone gets it, you explained it better than I ever could. And yep, having been the victim of sexual assault stuff like that is triggering when it arrives unsolicited and yeah, I get that it is a kink of some but don't force it on others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

I get that some women enjoy it, it should not be assumed that all women enjoy it.

Shame - you use the words shit and warped about this topic. Yes I'd interpret that as shaming when you directly questioned why women might enjoy the activity using those words.

I very clearly said men should not expect it nor should it be viewed as a normal sexual activity particularly to young people. "

It is 'warped' to think all women enjoy it, that is what it meant and 'shit' I explained it above

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

I get that some women enjoy it, it should not be assumed that all women enjoy it.

Shame - you use the words shit and warped about this topic. Yes I'd interpret that as shaming when you directly questioned why women might enjoy the activity using those words.

I very clearly said men should not expect it nor should it be viewed as a normal sexual activity particularly to young people.

It is 'warped' to think all women enjoy it, that is what it meant and 'shit' I explained it above "

Thank you for clarifying.

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By *eavenscentitCouple
over a year ago

barnstaple

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Read Women's Madness, it's all part of living with misogyny and how women adapt to survive.

I'm full up with my reading right now - how does that relate to my comment? Are you calling my kink internalised misogyny? "

That's what you can work out for yourself. We live in a world where men have used sexual violence to control women throughout centuries, where men have governed our lives. It has an effect. That's all I pointed out.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Oh here we go with the shaming card.

It's not shaming pointing out that men assuming that all women want to be treated violently is wrong!

It's sends out completely the wrong message and warps guy's ideas of how to treat someone.

What two consenting adults decide to do within the law is entirely up to them,if you enjoy it and a willing participant then no shaming here your body your choice.

You seem to be missing the point this is about unsolicited messages from stranger's posting some pretty scary stuff.

They don't know if the women they messaged could have been a victim of domestic violence or an attack of some kind and sending random messages I would imagine be pretty traumatic.

So bringing up the kink shame card is not on .

It's about a bigger social issue not just what a small minority see as a kink.

I suggest if guy's are into this they should read a profile, send messages getting to know a person first and gently mention it rather than just assuming.

This is what I meant about men's attitudes towards women being skewed by porn."

Spot on

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 22/04/23 08:23:16]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Oh here we go with the shaming card.

It's not shaming pointing out that men assuming that all women want to be treated violently is wrong!

It's sends out completely the wrong message and warps guy's ideas of how to treat someone.

What two consenting adults decide to do within the law is entirely up to them,if you enjoy it and a willing participant then no shaming here your body your choice.

You seem to be missing the point this is about unsolicited messages from stranger's posting some pretty scary stuff.

They don't know if the women they messaged could have been a victim of domestic violence or an attack of some kind and sending random messages I would imagine be pretty traumatic.

So bringing up the kink shame card is not on .

It's about a bigger social issue not just what a small minority see as a kink.

I suggest if guy's are into this they should read a profile, send messages getting to know a person first and gently mention it rather than just assuming.

This is what I meant about men's attitudes towards women being skewed by porn.

I don't really care if you think I shouldn't bring up kink shaming. I said one sentence based on MissShady's language. You've written paragraphs and jumped down my throat. Do sod off."

Which I clarified (twice) even though it was clear enough to me and others what I meant

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Oh here we go with the shaming card.

It's not shaming pointing out that men assuming that all women want to be treated violently is wrong!

It's sends out completely the wrong message and warps guy's ideas of how to treat someone.

What two consenting adults decide to do within the law is entirely up to them,if you enjoy it and a willing participant then no shaming here your body your choice.

You seem to be missing the point this is about unsolicited messages from stranger's posting some pretty scary stuff.

They don't know if the women they messaged could have been a victim of domestic violence or an attack of some kind and sending random messages I would imagine be pretty traumatic.

So bringing up the kink shame card is not on .

It's about a bigger social issue not just what a small minority see as a kink.

I suggest if guy's are into this they should read a profile, send messages getting to know a person first and gently mention it rather than just assuming.

This is what I meant about men's attitudes towards women being skewed by porn."

I wrote one sentence "do you need to shame us". MissShady clarified her language. We agree. Why you felt the need to "tell me off" in a lengthy comment is beyond me. Very unpleasant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Oh here we go with the shaming card.

It's not shaming pointing out that men assuming that all women want to be treated violently is wrong!

It's sends out completely the wrong message and warps guy's ideas of how to treat someone.

What two consenting adults decide to do within the law is entirely up to them,if you enjoy it and a willing participant then no shaming here your body your choice.

You seem to be missing the point this is about unsolicited messages from stranger's posting some pretty scary stuff.

They don't know if the women they messaged could have been a victim of domestic violence or an attack of some kind and sending random messages I would imagine be pretty traumatic.

So bringing up the kink shame card is not on .

It's about a bigger social issue not just what a small minority see as a kink.

I suggest if guy's are into this they should read a profile, send messages getting to know a person first and gently mention it rather than just assuming.

This is what I meant about men's attitudes towards women being skewed by porn."

(closed, thread got too big)

Reply privately

By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"When did choking your partner during sex become a thing?

I really don’t get that….

Neither do I. I find it disturbing when I receive messages off Men describing violent sexual acts - Want to ch@ke/ruin/make you gag etc before asking 'would you like that?"

I don't accept it should be expected by men or viewed as normal - but some women enjoy it. I do. Do you need to shame us?

Oh here we go with the shaming card.

It's not shaming pointing out that men assuming that all women want to be treated violently is wrong!

It's sends out completely the wrong message and warps guy's ideas of how to treat someone.

What two consenting adults decide to do within the law is entirely up to them,if you enjoy it and a willing participant then no shaming here your body your choice.

You seem to be missing the point this is about unsolicited messages from stranger's posting some pretty scary stuff.

They don't know if the women they messaged could have been a victim of domestic violence or an attack of some kind and sending random messages I would imagine be pretty traumatic.

So bringing up the kink shame card is not on .

It's about a bigger social issue not just what a small minority see as a kink.

I suggest if guy's are into this they should read a profile, send messages getting to know a person first and gently mention it rather than just assuming.

This is what I meant about men's attitudes towards women being skewed by porn.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ex HolesMan
over a year ago

Up North

Some women could start an argument in a phonebox

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I think that the views of men that women are there to please them and not equal are deeply ingrained and it’s a hard thought process to break if you have been bought up with those views and people close to you have those views.

Unfortunately the likes of Tate reinforce that and he has such a following that I worry for our future children.

That also follows that women have deeply ingrained thought processes that are hard to break.

We all have to catch our thoughts sometimes but I see a lot more men with downright sexist and horrible views than I do women.

It’s a shame that we cannot all just support each other and big each other up. "

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

It’s something I have also noticed.

People reflect on the way men have behaved towards women over history and then say how, thankfully that is changing now.

Is it ? Really?

Some of the attitudes and behaviours towards women by men in their late teens / early twenties I have noticed recently makes me think otherwise.

It’s not just the mass availability of porn to very young people but the content, which seems to be dominated by scenes of women being demeaned/ physically overpowered/ used, pick your own description.

When my generation came upon porn it was usually of the hedgerow variety.

Pictures of pretty women in posses in various states of undress culminating in a full nude photo.

These photo sets were interspersed with articles on the latest sports car launch and cigarette adverts.

When I compare those images to the brutal and graphic depictions youngsters access today I can’t help but feel this is really not healthy and has a detrimental affect on their perception of women.

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

When I compare those images to the brutal and graphic depictions youngsters access today I can’t help but feel this is really not healthy and has a detrimental affect on their perception of women. "

And I think in turn, young women then have the perception that this is how to be sexually alluring

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By *UGGYBEAR2015Man
over a year ago

BRIDPORT

When I compare those images to the brutal and graphic depictions youngsters access today I can’t help but feel this is really not healthy and has a detrimental affect on their perception of women.

And I think in turn, young women then have the perception that this is how to be sexually alluring "

Yes, one feeds the other so to speak.

Strong parenting by good role models can break the circle , and there is another whole topic, but it is all intertwined.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It’s something I have also noticed.

People reflect on the way men have behaved towards women over history and then say how, thankfully that is changing now.

Is it ? Really?

Some of the attitudes and behaviours towards women by men in their late teens / early twenties I have noticed recently makes me think otherwise.

When my generation came upon porn it was usually of the hedgerow variety.

Pictures of pretty women in posses in various states of undress culminating in a full nude photo.

These photo sets were interspersed with articles on the latest sports car launch and cigarette adverts.

Definitely, hearing what goes on in Schools is disturbing, my friends Daughter is 14 and hearing her experiences make me thankful I don't have a daughter.

I work for a local college and our Safeguarding team is dealing with serious incidents of child on child abuse daily. It seems to be on the increase

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

When I compare those images to the brutal and graphic depictions youngsters access today I can’t help but feel this is really not healthy and has a detrimental affect on their perception of women.

And I think in turn, young women then have the perception that this is how to be sexually alluring "

Definitely they do

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Where we are now is we have a desire to live in an echo chamber and side with people who we find agreement with, media fuelled, we have to fit a category because that’s our identity and as soon as we have identity then things get tribal, everything in moderation most people sit in the middle and are agreeable, the problem is we are witnessing the downfall of everything, gender wars played it’s part in bringing down the Roman Empire and the Greeks before that, passing it off as history repeating itself isn’t saying that both sexes (predominantly female)haven’t endured horrific times, people don’t need to be worshipped because of who they are, just respected, I fear for my children as this is only getting worse, the solution is education but as a society we aren’t ready for that because in this downward spiral it’s who shouts loudest wins and there has to be a winner, can we just get rid of the assholes on both sides and leave it at that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"It’s something I have also noticed.

People reflect on the way men have behaved towards women over history and then say how, thankfully that is changing now.

Is it ? Really?

Some of the attitudes and behaviours towards women by men in their late teens / early twenties I have noticed recently makes me think otherwise.

When my generation came upon porn it was usually of the hedgerow variety.

Pictures of pretty women in posses in various states of undress culminating in a full nude photo.

These photo sets were interspersed with articles on the latest sports car launch and cigarette adverts.

When I compare those images to the brutal and graphic depictions youngsters access today I can’t help but feel this is really not healthy and has a detrimental affect on their perception of women.

Definitely, hearing what goes on in Schools is disturbing, my friends Daughter is 14 and hearing her experiences make me thankful I don't have a daughter.

I work for a local college and our Safeguarding team is dealing with serious incidents of child on child abuse daily. It seems to be on the increase "

Child on child abuse has always happened. Except in the past it was just called bullying, and in the past it was pretty much always swept under the carpet by adults in the education system.

At least until now, when things have gotten to the point of near anarchy and unprecedented levels of brutality/obscenity. But way more should have been done in the past. The whole "kids will be kids" approach has done untold damage to future generations by normalising such things and attitudes more than them being exposed to inappropriate media.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Where we are now is we have a desire to live in an echo chamber and side with people who we find agreement with, media fuelled, we have to fit a category because that’s our identity and as soon as we have identity then things get tribal, everything in moderation most people sit in the middle and are agreeable, the problem is we are witnessing the downfall of everything, gender wars played it’s part in bringing down the Roman Empire and the Greeks before that, passing it off as history repeating itself isn’t saying that both sexes (predominantly female)haven’t endured horrific times, people don’t need to be worshipped because of who they are, just respected, I fear for my children as this is only getting worse, the solution is education but as a society we aren’t ready for that because in this downward spiral it’s who shouts loudest wins and there has to be a winner, can we just get rid of the assholes on both sides and leave it at that "

Echo chambers are not a new thing. They've always existed throughout humanity's history, it's seen through our fundamental manner of choosing who to befriend around us in real life whom we click with the most and have the most common shared values/identities.

Only difference is with the Internet, local echo chambers of people with minds and perspectives that never leave the small circle or area they live in became global ones in the virtual world.

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By *nandwet69Couple
over a year ago

cwmbran

Be it men or women being derogatory often is looking for a reaction as it attention allowing

A conversation as the positive one is off the table they negative attention

Most people forget the best reaction it no reaction