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"The tories broke it " Agree, 12 years of deliberate lack of investment. To quote Kath Fielder from The Independent in January, "the government have followed Chomsky’s 'Privatisation Technique' of defund; make sure things don’t work; people get angry; you hand it over to private capital." | |||
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"To many plp going to A&E because can’t get a GP appointment so it’s fucked " Sitting for half a day waiting for emergency treatment won't help. As someone else said above though, the Tories have been underfunding the NHS to the point of breaking it. | |||
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"The tories broke it Agree, 12 years of deliberate lack of investment. To quote Kath Fielder from The Independent in January, "the government have followed Chomsky’s 'Privatisation Technique' of defund; make sure things don’t work; people get angry; you hand it over to private capital." " Same as the prison system | |||
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"The tories broke it Agree, 12 years of deliberate lack of investment. To quote Kath Fielder from The Independent in January, "the government have followed Chomsky’s 'Privatisation Technique' of defund; make sure things don’t work; people get angry; you hand it over to private capital." Same as the prison system " And social care. And the asylum system. And social housing. A | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!!" Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would | |||
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"What happened to the extra £350 mil per week we'd be sending the NHS?" And the 40 hospitals. | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would " As long as YOU are ok, that's alright then.  | |||
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"What happened to the extra £350 mil per week we'd be sending the NHS?" The Tories put it inside the bus and drove it off to their private yachts, heated stables, and off shore tax havens.  | |||
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"Are Tom's threads divisive? Perhaps amongst the squirrel and badger communities lately. "Don't forget the sheep! As someone said on the 'sheep thread' of his "It's all over the ewes"  | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!!" Divisive? Any post where there is more than one opinion is surely divisive. | |||
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"Are Tom's threads divisive? Perhaps amongst the squirrel and badger communities lately. "What he said.... | |||
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"Divisive? Any post where there is more than one opinion is surely divisive. " Hang on, do people have opinions that differ from yours? shurely shome mishtake (to quote Private Eye) | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!!" Why? Are we lucky because we have an inefficient and dysfunctional health service? We have to face the stark fact that far from being a 'national treasure' the NHS is a national basket case. | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news..." What is going on Tom ..... is once the Tories have convinced the sheep that the NHS is shit and needs reform they can then dismantle it , privatise it further , fail to improve it and continue to charge you through the nose for it and you will thank them. | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would " Although the (mean) average salary is about 40% more in the US, this is severely skewed by the super rich. For the majority, US wages are not a great deal compared to the UK. Most jobs will not include even the (UK LEGAL) minimum 20 days paid holidays + Bank Holidays, or maternity leave. Also, minimum wage is considerably less than the UK too. Add to that, health "insurance" is considerably more than national insurance, and the cost of living is much higher in the US too... it seems to me that we get a better deal on theis side of the pond. Cal | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case." Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. | |||
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"The tories broke it Agree, 12 years of deliberate lack of investment. To quote Kath Fielder from The Independent in January, "the government have followed Chomsky’s 'Privatisation Technique' of defund; make sure things don’t work; people get angry; you hand it over to private capital." " Lack of investment? The NHS has never been so well funded as it is now. The problem is how it's run. Too many unnecessary management posts and ridiculous roles like 'diversity managers' Needs a massive shake up, but no government ever has the balls to do it | |||
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"Imagine how bad it would be without the £350million a week that its been getting since Brexit"  | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. " Any government run service will of course be funded through taxes. It shouldn't be completely free at the point of use. | |||
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"I pay for private healthcare. I'm fortunate to be able to do that. I took this decision after waiting in a&e for 6 hours then a nurse came out and said it will be another 8-12 hours till I would be seen. So I had to make a choice and that was to pay. This also meant if my mother needed urgent treatment or an ambulance I could get what she requires. " I thought private healthcare rarely, if ever provided A&E services? Their hospitals aren't set up for it and they dont have ambulances | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would Although the (mean) average salary is about 40% more in the US, this is severely skewed by the super rich. For the majority, US wages are not a great deal compared to the UK. Most jobs will not include even the (UK LEGAL) minimum 20 days paid holidays + Bank Holidays, or maternity leave. Also, minimum wage is considerably less than the UK too. Add to that, health "insurance" is considerably more than national insurance, and the cost of living is much higher in the US too... it seems to me that we get a better deal on theis side of the pond. Cal" Not to mention less chance of being shot | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would Although the (mean) average salary is about 40% more in the US, this is severely skewed by the super rich. For the majority, US wages are not a great deal compared to the UK. Most jobs will not include even the (UK LEGAL) minimum 20 days paid holidays + Bank Holidays, or maternity leave. Also, minimum wage is considerably less than the UK too. Add to that, health "insurance" is considerably more than national insurance, and the cost of living is much higher in the US too... it seems to me that we get a better deal on theis side of the pond. Cal" When I qualify for my current role I’ll get £31k in america I’d get $108k and taxed a hell of a lot less, you sore the cost of living over there is more as my family do really really well… | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would " Till your insurance runs out then you have to sell your house to pay medical Bills. | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would Till your insurance runs out then you have to sell your house to pay medical Bills. " £31k 17.5% vat 20% tax on purchases and about 15% NI or $108k 2.9% sales tax 4.5 wage tax no NI? I think of your stupid enough to let your insurance run out you deserve every bill you get | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. " Exactly right, and provided we hold true to the principle of "Free at the point of use" what does it matter of private enterprise provides the service if they can do it more efficiently? That's how most healthcare works around the world. In any case, who does the really smart stuff in medicine? The new drugs, the new scanners, the new surgical implants? The answer is private enterprise. | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would Till your insurance runs out then you have to sell your house to pay medical Bills. £31k 17.5% vat 20% tax on purchases and about 15% NI or $108k 2.9% sales tax 4.5 wage tax no NI? I think of your stupid enough to let your insurance run out you deserve every bill you get " You do realise your insurance runs out because there's a cap on what it will pay out not just because you haven't paid premiums. You don't get limitless cover | |||
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"I don’t if/how many Nhs workers we have here on the forum but can I just say I’ve never had a bad experience with any care/treatment. Yes, I have had to wait and be a patient patient but you guys are worked so hard and yet you still give it your all. Big shout out to you all ,29% satisfaction to me just means 71% don’t know how good they’ve got it and how hard you work " I've always been clear when I've been asked - because it's true - that it's obvious the NHS are doing the best they can with what they've got, and the staff go above and beyond. This is purely political mismanagement. | |||
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"I don’t if/how many Nhs workers we have here on the forum but can I just say I’ve never had a bad experience with any care/treatment. Yes, I have had to wait and be a patient patient but you guys are worked so hard and yet you still give it your all. Big shout out to you all ,29% satisfaction to me just means 71% don’t know how good they’ve got it and how hard you work I've always been clear when I've been asked - because it's true - that it's obvious the NHS are doing the best they can with what they've got, and the staff go above and beyond. This is purely political mismanagement." Absolutely , good people working in a flawed system  | |||
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"Labour started the privatisation of NHS tories have ploughed loads of money in but there's to many inefficient practices around NHS for starters a&e more interested in getting people home knowing they'll be back not interested in curing u just getting people home" Is Tony Blair to blame for this , | |||
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"Labour started the privatisation of NHS tories have ploughed loads of money in but there's to many inefficient practices around NHS for starters a&e more interested in getting people home knowing they'll be back not interested in curing u just getting people home" What do you think the purpose of Accident and Emergency is? | |||
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"Labour started the privatisation of NHS tories have ploughed loads of money in but there's to many inefficient practices around NHS for starters a&e more interested in getting people home knowing they'll be back not interested in curing u just getting people home What do you think the purpose of Accident and Emergency is? " To accommodate people who cannot get an appointment with their GP | |||
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"Labour started the privatisation of NHS tories have ploughed loads of money in but there's to many inefficient practices around NHS for starters a&e more interested in getting people home knowing they'll be back not interested in curing u just getting people home What do you think the purpose of Accident and Emergency is? " for people who need to be admitted into hospital obviously I understand some use it as a joke but I did say Sent home when doctors know ull need admitting sooner or later | |||
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"Labour started the privatisation of NHS tories have ploughed loads of money in but there's to many inefficient practices around NHS for starters a&e more interested in getting people home knowing they'll be back not interested in curing u just getting people home What do you think the purpose of Accident and Emergency is? for people who need to be admitted into hospital obviously I understand some use it as a joke but I did say Sent home when doctors know ull need admitting sooner or later" I know sometime who works in triage. A huge proportion are not emergencies. Recently someone was there with an ingrown toenail. He waited hours then she sent him home. He got really angry and had to be (can't use the e word, huh, I didn't know that) 'guided' out. It cannot function with the levels of traffic going through it esp when a proportion of that is abusing it because "it's free"... | |||
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"Wait until the papers get hold of the staff survey results "Please elaborate | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would Till your insurance runs out then you have to sell your house to pay medical Bills. £31k 17.5% vat 20% tax on purchases and about 15% NI or $108k 2.9% sales tax 4.5 wage tax no NI? I think of your stupid enough to let your insurance run out you deserve every bill you get " It's a bit more than just comparing those figures, almost half of working age adults cant afford medical insurance. Salaries may be higher but that has to be compared in context with cost of living figures too surely? | |||
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"Wait until the papers get hold of the staff survey results ". They're always the same each year. Do you really want to give people on here more ammunition?! | |||
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"The tories broke it Agree, 12 years of deliberate lack of investment. To quote Kath Fielder from The Independent in January, "the government have followed Chomsky’s 'Privatisation Technique' of defund; make sure things don’t work; people get angry; you hand it over to private capital." Lack of investment? The NHS has never been so well funded as it is now. The problem is how it's run. Too many unnecessary management posts and ridiculous roles like 'diversity managers' Needs a massive shake up, but no government ever has the balls to do it" Deliberately underfunded for a decade and massively under-managed in comparison to private businesses. | |||
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"Wait until the papers get hold of the staff survey results .
They're always the same each year. Do you really want to give people on here more ammunition?!"They’ve been getting worse, year on year, for a decade now. | |||
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"One other thing that's a big problem is the variation between UK hospitals, as well as how UK is doing overall. So not only do we in the UK have a lower life expectancy than most developed countries (in 30th place apparently now) but some hospitals have a much worse mortality rating than others. So basically if you live in Spain (Europe's best , I think) you should live 5-10 years longer than if you live near one of the UKs worse hospitals. But don't tell the media. " The biggest determinant of low life expectancy is poverty, hospitals have very little to do with life expectancy rates. | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. Exactly right, and provided we hold true to the principle of "Free at the point of use" what does it matter of private enterprise provides the service if they can do it more efficiently? That's how most healthcare works around the world. In any case, who does the really smart stuff in medicine? The new drugs, the new scanners, the new surgical implants? The answer is private enterprise." ‘Private enterprise’ can’t do it more efficiently though, the few times they have tried to run acute services they have pulled out of the contract early because they can’t make it pay. Private healthcare appears efficient because they don’t have to deal with the chronically ill, and emergencies. | |||
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"One other thing that's a big problem is the variation between UK hospitals, as well as how UK is doing overall. So not only do we in the UK have a lower life expectancy than most developed countries (in 30th place apparently now) but some hospitals have a much worse mortality rating than others. So basically if you live in Spain (Europe's best , I think) you should live 5-10 years longer than if you live near one of the UKs worse hospitals. But don't tell the media. The biggest determinant of low life expectancy is poverty, hospitals have very little to do with life expectancy rates." Hospital mortality rates calculations already take into account take into account factors including social deprivation as well as age, other diseases, previous history etc., so as to provide a fair comparison between them. If not, all hospitals from areas with such populations would always be bottom of the ratings. | |||
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"Wait until the papers get hold of the staff survey results .
They're always the same each year. Do you really want to give people on here more ammunition?!"The same would be ok. They are declining across the board across a number of key and concerning metrics in many instances | |||
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"Wait until the papers get hold of the staff survey results .
They're always the same each year. Do you really want to give people on here more ammunition?!
They’ve been getting worse, year on year, for a decade now."^^^^ | |||
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"Labour started the privatisation of NHS tories have ploughed loads of money in but there's to many inefficient practices around NHS for starters a&e more interested in getting people home knowing they'll be back not interested in curing u just getting people home What do you think the purpose of Accident and Emergency is? for people who need to be admitted into hospital obviously I understand some use it as a joke but I did say Sent home when doctors know ull need admitting sooner or later I know sometime who works in triage. A huge proportion are not emergencies. Recently someone was there with an ingrown toenail. He waited hours then she sent him home. He got really angry and had to be (can't use the e word, huh, I didn't know that) 'guided' out. It cannot function with the levels of traffic going through it esp when a proportion of that is abusing it because "it's free"... " I live 2 miles from hospital most females in my family are nhs yet I travel 20 miles to a Manchester hospital a&e because I know they'll help me as unfortunately I get admitted approx 3 times a year and 1 day can be the diff of life and death for me | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. Exactly right, and provided we hold true to the principle of "Free at the point of use" what does it matter of private enterprise provides the service if they can do it more efficiently? That's how most healthcare works around the world. In any case, who does the really smart stuff in medicine? The new drugs, the new scanners, the new surgical implants? The answer is private enterprise. ‘Private enterprise’ can’t do it more efficiently though, the few times they have tried to run acute services they have pulled out of the contract early because they can’t make it pay. Private healthcare appears efficient because they don’t have to deal with the chronically ill, and emergencies." Fair enough regarding acute medicine and A&E, but as an ex-pat I've seen routine medicine provided far more efficiently by private services in other countries. If 80% of diagnosis and treatment was speeded-up it would take load of A&E in any case. | |||
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"I also wonder how people would like the health system in say, the US, where it can BANKRUPT you if you fall ill! I don't like posting on OPs posts as they are divisive, but feel strongly on this one. As broken as it is, we should all feel very lucky we have the NHS still!!! Americans are paid on average three times more for the same job than we get in the uk, if I had to sacrifice the nhs for that and take out health insurance I would Till your insurance runs out then you have to sell your house to pay medical Bills. £31k 17.5% vat 20% tax on purchases and about 15% NI or $108k 2.9% sales tax 4.5 wage tax no NI? I think of your stupid enough to let your insurance run out you deserve every bill you get " I am in America I approve this message Its how you plan and where you choose to live. My healthcare is top notch. I have no qualms with it. | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. Exactly right, and provided we hold true to the principle of "Free at the point of use" what does it matter of private enterprise provides the service if they can do it more efficiently? That's how most healthcare works around the world. In any case, who does the really smart stuff in medicine? The new drugs, the new scanners, the new surgical implants? The answer is private enterprise. ‘Private enterprise’ can’t do it more efficiently though, the few times they have tried to run acute services they have pulled out of the contract early because they can’t make it pay. Private healthcare appears efficient because they don’t have to deal with the chronically ill, and emergencies. Fair enough regarding acute medicine and A&E, but as an ex-pat I've seen routine medicine provided far more efficiently by private services in other countries. If 80% of diagnosis and treatment was speeded-up it would take load of A&E in any case. " Then you have a situation where private healthcare gets to pick and choose what it does, they won’t pick the complex patients because they are expensive, they won’t pick those who might require ITU beds because ITU beds are expensive. It’s essentially the situation we have now when private healthcare companies are brought in to help with waiting lists. The NHS is left with the very sick, expensive cases and don’t get the simple profitable patients who pay for the care of the others. It’s not as simple as just getting private healthcare companies to Do the routine work as the routine work pays for the other stuff. It would basically be the end of the NHS. | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. Exactly right, and provided we hold true to the principle of "Free at the point of use" what does it matter of private enterprise provides the service if they can do it more efficiently? That's how most healthcare works around the world. In any case, who does the really smart stuff in medicine? The new drugs, the new scanners, the new surgical implants? The answer is private enterprise. ‘Private enterprise’ can’t do it more efficiently though, the few times they have tried to run acute services they have pulled out of the contract early because they can’t make it pay. Private healthcare appears efficient because they don’t have to deal with the chronically ill, and emergencies. Fair enough regarding acute medicine and A&E, but as an ex-pat I've seen routine medicine provided far more efficiently by private services in other countries. If 80% of diagnosis and treatment was speeded-up it would take load of A&E in any case. Then you have a situation where private healthcare gets to pick and choose what it does, they won’t pick the complex patients because they are expensive, they won’t pick those who might require ITU beds because ITU beds are expensive. It’s essentially the situation we have now when private healthcare companies are brought in to help with waiting lists. The NHS is left with the very sick, expensive cases and don’t get the simple profitable patients who pay for the care of the others. It’s not as simple as just getting private healthcare companies to Do the routine work as the routine work pays for the other stuff. It would basically be the end of the NHS." Well it seems to work perfectly well everywhere else with far higher levels of service and satisfaction. | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. Exactly right, and provided we hold true to the principle of "Free at the point of use" what does it matter of private enterprise provides the service if they can do it more efficiently? That's how most healthcare works around the world. In any case, who does the really smart stuff in medicine? The new drugs, the new scanners, the new surgical implants? The answer is private enterprise. ‘Private enterprise’ can’t do it more efficiently though, the few times they have tried to run acute services they have pulled out of the contract early because they can’t make it pay. Private healthcare appears efficient because they don’t have to deal with the chronically ill, and emergencies. Fair enough regarding acute medicine and A&E, but as an ex-pat I've seen routine medicine provided far more efficiently by private services in other countries. If 80% of diagnosis and treatment was speeded-up it would take load of A&E in any case. Then you have a situation where private healthcare gets to pick and choose what it does, they won’t pick the complex patients because they are expensive, they won’t pick those who might require ITU beds because ITU beds are expensive. It’s essentially the situation we have now when private healthcare companies are brought in to help with waiting lists. The NHS is left with the very sick, expensive cases and don’t get the simple profitable patients who pay for the care of the others. It’s not as simple as just getting private healthcare companies to Do the routine work as the routine work pays for the other stuff. It would basically be the end of the NHS." And that’s before we get to the better pay in private healthcare. | |||
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"You can have endless debates comparing socialised medicine, private system, semi-privste etc. All have their advantages and drawbacks. I think everyone is in agreement that healthcare should be of good quality and available to all. I don't believe in "free" healthcare for the principle that if it's free it will be taken for granted, as all things free inevitably are. If it's taken for granted, abuse of the system follows. Should it be affordable? Yes, absolutely. Should it be made more affordable for people with meager means? Yes. The NHS is a behemoth of an organisation that suffers from problems typical of something it's size. Excess graft, inefficiency (management not the health care professionsls) excessive beaurocracy. It should be respected but not treated as a sacred cow as is commonly the case. Although the NHS is "Free at the point of use", it isn't "Free Healthcare" at all. It is funded by national insurance and taxes. Exactly right, and provided we hold true to the principle of "Free at the point of use" what does it matter of private enterprise provides the service if they can do it more efficiently? That's how most healthcare works around the world. In any case, who does the really smart stuff in medicine? The new drugs, the new scanners, the new surgical implants? The answer is private enterprise. ‘Private enterprise’ can’t do it more efficiently though, the few times they have tried to run acute services they have pulled out of the contract early because they can’t make it pay. Private healthcare appears efficient because they don’t have to deal with the chronically ill, and emergencies. Fair enough regarding acute medicine and A&E, but as an ex-pat I've seen routine medicine provided far more efficiently by private services in other countries. If 80% of diagnosis and treatment was speeded-up it would take load of A&E in any case. Then you have a situation where private healthcare gets to pick and choose what it does, they won’t pick the complex patients because they are expensive, they won’t pick those who might require ITU beds because ITU beds are expensive. It’s essentially the situation we have now when private healthcare companies are brought in to help with waiting lists. The NHS is left with the very sick, expensive cases and don’t get the simple profitable patients who pay for the care of the others. It’s not as simple as just getting private healthcare companies to Do the routine work as the routine work pays for the other stuff. It would basically be the end of the NHS. Well it seems to work perfectly well everywhere else with far higher levels of service and satisfaction." It does, where? | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news..." Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? Who knows. It costs everyone a fortune and rarely meets expectations. Hence low satisfaction. | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news... Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? Who knows. It costs everyone a fortune and rarely meets expectations. Hence low satisfaction. " Is it cheaper elsewhere? | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news..." What's going on is that the plan is working. | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news... Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? Who knows. It costs everyone a fortune and rarely meets expectations. Hence low satisfaction. " The question is WHY is it not fit for purpose? I refer the honourable gentleman back to my previous comments regarding those in power. And let's look at the most recent Government, and not the kick the can down the road and blame the previous Government because they're not the ones who just spent 12 years selling the NHS (and everything else you can think of) off to their mates for personal gain. | |||
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"Just to chuck some inconvenient (for some) facts into this thread - in 2000, under Labour, the NHS was rated 18th best in the World Health Organization's ranking of worldwide health systems. In 2022/23, the NHS is ranked 10th best. These figures are on the WHO website for those who want to check. Be careful what you wish for. "WHO... Are they the same WHO who said that COVID was nothing to worry about ... | |||
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"Just to chuck some inconvenient (for some) facts into this thread - in 2000, under Labour, the NHS was rated 18th best in the World Health Organization's ranking of worldwide health systems. In 2022/23, the NHS is ranked 10th best. These figures are on the WHO website for those who want to check. Be careful what you wish for.
WHO... Are they the same WHO who said that COVID was nothing to worry about ..."I remember Anthony Fauci said something like that, but he wasn't a member of WHO, he was the former Chief Medical Advisor to POTUS. I don't know if WHO put that out as a statement - have you got a link? | |||
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"The tories broke it " This
Hilarious to see the usual suspects blaming Labour, who handed over the #1 ranked healthcare system to the tories, who proceeded to cripple it | |||
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"The tories broke it This
Hilarious to see the usual suspects blaming Labour, who handed over the #1 ranked healthcare system to the tories, who proceeded to cripple it"As in my post a few above, the NHS was 18th under Labour in 2000, and 10th under the Tories in 2022/23 in a worldwide ranking. The only times that the UK has been #1 are 2014 and 2017, but this was only a comparative with 11 other "wealthy" countries. Have you got a source for your claim? | |||
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"The tories broke it " and Labour broke it  yes they made NHS back in day, but every government Labour tories they are all to blame | |||
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"Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? " I must be missing something as I don't understand the connection to Empire. I don't worship the NHS, but I do hold the idea behind it as almost sacred. It can still be fixed, but those in power don't want that. | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news... Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? Who knows. It costs everyone a fortune and rarely meets expectations. Hence low satisfaction. " | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news... Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? Who knows. It costs everyone a fortune and rarely meets expectations. Hence low satisfaction. Is it cheaper elsewhere?" Not for most no. They pay compulsory health insurance for accessible, quality health care that works. We on the other hand would rather try and fix an antiquated concept that has never been properly funded and always been abused. When the great British public are asked if theyd pay a going rate for health care the answer is always, piss off id rather bumble along with this heap of shit which gets worse year by year. Look at countries who have the best health and health care systems. We might learn something. | |||
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"Just to chuck some inconvenient (for some) facts into this thread - in 2000, under Labour, the NHS was rated 18th best in the World Health Organization's ranking of worldwide health systems. In 2022/23, the NHS is ranked 10th best. These figures are on the WHO website for those who want to check. Be careful what you wish for. "In 2010, after 13 years of Labour governments, the Commonwealth fund ranked the NHS 2nd in the world. Coincidentally NHS waiting lists were at their lowest ever, and satisfaction the highest ever. I’m comfortable with what I wish for. | |||
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"Overall satisfaction with the NHS is at its lowest ever. Only 29% What's going on here guys. It's all over the news... Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? Who knows. It costs everyone a fortune and rarely meets expectations. Hence low satisfaction. Is it cheaper elsewhere? Not for most no. They pay compulsory health insurance for accessible, quality health care that works. We on the other hand would rather try and fix an antiquated concept that has never been properly funded and always been abused. When the great British public are asked if theyd pay a going rate for health care the answer is always, piss off id rather bumble along with this heap of shit which gets worse year by year. Look at countries who have the best health and health care systems. We might learn something. " I have, they all fund their healthcare systems properly. The Norwegian health service is currently ranked number 1 and their government spend more on it as a percentage of GDP than we do. It is then topped up by health insurance paid for by employers and the population. This is why they rank poorly in equity and access. The combined spend per person on healthcare in Norway is $8000, in the UK it is $3700, less than half. | |||
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"Really simple. Its not fit for purpose. Yet people worship it. Last vestiges of empire maybe? I must be missing something as I don't understand the connection to Empire. I don't worship the NHS, but I do hold the idea behind it as almost sacred. It can still be fixed, but those in power don't want that." It's cattled ... | |||
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