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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. " But. 35%?! | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. But. 35%?!" But. Preservation of life and limb?! | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. But. 35%?! But. Preservation of life and limb?!" Agreed But. Even so .... | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie" If they have no alternative though ... | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie" These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you" Nurses and doctors are different arguments. Ever met a poor doctor? | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you Nurses and doctors are different arguments. Ever met a poor doctor?" Jnr Drs are not particularly well paid, particularly given the level of study and qualifications required for the role. Just Google ‘junior dr salary’ and look at the official pay scales | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you Nurses and doctors are different arguments. Ever met a poor doctor?" Yes, many | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you Nurses and doctors are different arguments. Ever met a poor doctor? Jnr Drs are not particularly well paid, particularly given the level of study and qualifications required for the role. Just Google ‘junior dr salary’ and look at the official pay scales " A fully qualified junior doctor earns around £60k a year, the pay claim they have submitted would take that to £78k a year | |||
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"A fully qualified junior doctor earns around £60k a year, the pay claim they have submitted would take that to £78k a year" After how many years of intensive study (which they pay back) and on the job training? | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie" I take it that you're not trained as a Junior Doctor, with the spouting of such BS. Their actions are necessary because of the lack of government care for us and causing it to get to this point. Talks and financial flexibility are needed on their part and postponing this is blinkered, an almost psychopathic disregard for public health and life. | |||
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"A fully qualified junior doctor earns around £60k a year, the pay claim they have submitted would take that to £78k a year After how many years of intensive study (which they pay back) and on the job training?" It is their choice. Btw in the budget the chancellor raised the limit on pension contributions to meet doctors demands. They can afford to contribute £1 million but need more. They are really struggling!! | |||
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"https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/junior-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-junior-doctors-in-england For clarification see the above link. The top end of the pay scale you've quoted at 60k is a doctor with about 8 years experience, a second PhD in thier specialist research field, the year before they become a consultant. A new junior doc saddled with debt just from their education to get to their first job (before they even think about a mortgage), is 25-28k a year" £35k actually is starting pay. see my comment regarding pensions, they are crying wolf regarding being poorly paid | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie I take it that you're not trained as a Junior Doctor, with the spouting of such BS. Their actions are necessary because of the lack of government care for us and causing it to get to this point. Talks and financial flexibility are needed on their part and postponing this is blinkered, an almost psychopathic disregard for public health and life. " Quite right, doctors have an almost psychopathic disregard for public health and life, hence the strikes | |||
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"It amazes me how political dogma is the only thing that drives so many people's opinions on a thread like this. The bottom line is that you can never compare apples with pears. There is massive erossion of salaries in some sectors/jobs and overinflated ones elsewhere. In an ideal world nobody should have to strike if there were truly independent pay review bodies. Lets also not forget that it is often not just about pay but working conditions, service to the public and sadly health and safety too. Waiting for years for an appointment or till you die is not what people have been paying for all their lives or expect from their NHS. Any staff, whether it's nurses, doctors or junior doctors deserve an appropriate salary and conditions to go with it as well as long term planning to recruit sufficient staff to deal with nit only the backlog but future demand too. All they seem to do is just short term interventions which make hardly any difference than committing to a well funded, efficient but also effective health service. " Very true. Especially the dogma point. Security at heathrow next on the list. Along with the passport office (because post covid people now want to travel and its stressful). Along with staff at some agencies refusing to stop the work from home practise. Its a mess. What is observable is the record profits continuing to be posted. It would br interesting for those who just pile on and say "pay them fairly". First if they have any clue what they are currently paid in package including pension, holidays and other instruments and secondly what their view of fair is? The media of course just like to drop deliberate misinformation. | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you" Well said ,when you work in healthcare you know it isn't all about the money . Do you know how many hours these jr Drs regularly put in to make sure people friends and families are looked after ?. A Dr shared his wage slip on Twitter and it was about £1649 ,not alot for 55/60 hours a week and making decisions that save lives. The consultants have been taking over care in the nhs during the strikes so they're hardly leaving people to die!. | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. " I'm staying well off the soap box on this, my daughter is currently engaged to a junior doctor and his thought matter more than mine. Safe to say he doesn't agree with the strike | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc " A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. | |||
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"As someone said on a different forum. Do they take into account the cost of all the training they get? Also, so i'm told, a large number of them go to work in other countries like Australia for better pay after the UK have trained them, no idea if this is true or not, just putting it out there" Very true alas | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. " Thats good to know. And when they become a consultant. What do they earn? Package? | |||
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"As someone said on a different forum. Do they take into account the cost of all the training they get? Also, so i'm told, a large number of them go to work in other countries like Australia for better pay after the UK have trained them, no idea if this is true or not, just putting it out there Very true alas" As with most students, doctors pay a considerable amount towards their studies. They are also legally required to work for the NHS for 4 years before they can move to the private sector or take a job abroad. The only reason doctors leave the NHS is because they're not paying them well enough to retain them. When there is a massive shortage of doctors, you would expect the Government to be doing everything possible to retain staff. | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. Thats good to know. And when they become a consultant. What do they earn? Package? " Depending on when they were contracted a specialist's basic Salary is anything from £45k to £105k, GP's are £65k to £98k and consultants are £88k to £120k Bearing in mind that with zero training and no minimum working hours, a MP's basic Salary is £88k and then they can claim everything on expenses. Cal | |||
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"I think we are discussing the symptom rather than the problem. The consultants pay is too high as the hours they work weren’t accounted for when the pay scales were worked out. So there is none left for anyone else. That’s a relatives opinion I’m borrowing as they were a dentist. As a consequence there is not enough left to fairly pay the less senior health professionals. There is nothing left for dentistry, any of us still got an NHS dentist? Maybe a few but I doubt it’s the majority. I don’t agree with the striking myself but something has to change before the system collapses or is privatised and excludes the most vulnerable people from healthcare. So I can appreciate why it is happening. I think an awful lot of cash is wasted on non clinical management and external business consultancy as well. To me that is criminal, an NHS manager should have at least 15-20 years clinical experience before they can make decisions that affect clinical staff and patients. " One of the biggest expenses to the NHS is Agency Staff, they pay many times more per hour for agency staff, and a huge amount of that finishes as profits in private companies. If the NHS can't employ staff directly, they should create their own agency, and make this the ONLY agency that they will employ through. | |||
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"There is so much misinformation on this thread. I especially love the idea that hospital consultants work few nights or weekends and spend their time sat in an office chatting! " Yeah that one is a particular highlight  | |||
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"There is so much misinformation on this thread. I especially love the idea that hospital consultants work few nights or weekends and spend their time sat in an office chatting! " At their basic level, many do. Weekends and nights involve a higher pay rate so Trusts are reluctant to have them available, except as on-call. Here's a direct quote from the .gov site "Consultants can currently opt out of non-emergency work at weekends and in the evenings, which means that some only work weekends in emergencies or if they choose to, rather than it being the norm, as for other staff." | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. " Does it really take 10 years after medical school ? But anyways , I’ve they qualify sat by 31, they are made the life right , very normal to make 200-300K a year plus an NHS smaller salary as the contracts allow them to take private work and set up businesses, unlike most professional that have non compete, restricted covenant and exclusivity clauses | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. " Just jobs at the end of the day. NHS worship is part of the problem. | |||
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" One of the biggest expenses to the NHS is Agency Staff, they pay many times more per hour for agency staff, and a huge amount of that finishes as profits in private companies. If the NHS can't employ staff directly, they should create their own agency, and make this the ONLY agency that they will employ through. " That’s a really good point In my industry agency fees are crippling. I guess a lot of money is spent unnecessarily on that. | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. " A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars.  | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. Does it really take 10 years after medical school ? But anyways , I’ve they qualify sat by 31, they are made the life right , very normal to make 200-300K a year plus an NHS smaller salary as the contracts allow them to take private work and set up businesses, unlike most professional that have non compete, restricted covenant and exclusivity clauses " More than ten years from medical school in the case of hospital jobs and med school is five or six years. Very few would make anywhere near 200k! | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. Thats good to know. And when they become a consultant. What do they earn? Package? Depending on when they were contracted a specialist's basic Salary is anything from £45k to £105k, GP's are £65k to £98k and consultants are £88k to £120k Bearing in mind that with zero training and no minimum working hours, a MP's basic Salary is £88k and then they can claim everything on expenses. Cal" Consultants and GP earnings are unlimited , a prescribing GP can make £10-20K a month in their spare time just remotely prescribing botox for the thousands of clinics without GPs. My dermatologist charges £180 for a 5min telephone consultation and the payment is made offshore to his company so it’s not even taxed in the uk. Let’s not feel sorry for doctors , they are among the highest paid in the country | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars. "No confusion. Registrars are junior doctors. | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. Does it really take 10 years after medical school ? But anyways , I’ve they qualify sat by 31, they are made the life right , very normal to make 200-300K a year plus an NHS smaller salary as the contracts allow them to take private work and set up businesses, unlike most professional that have non compete, restricted covenant and exclusivity clauses More than ten years from medical school in the case of hospital jobs and med school is five or six years. Very few would make anywhere near 200k!" Drive around millionaires row in places like Solihull and Leicester , most are multi millionaires by 30. The NHS salary isn’t that important when you have a licence to prescribe or consult privately | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars.
No confusion. Registrars are junior doctors. "Sigh. Perhaps look a bit deeper than the first google page that comes up? | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you Nurses and doctors are different arguments. Ever met a poor doctor? Jnr Drs are not particularly well paid, particularly given the level of study and qualifications required for the role. Just Google ‘junior dr salary’ and look at the official pay scales A fully qualified junior doctor earns around £60k a year, the pay claim they have submitted would take that to £78k a year" That's a lie Sir ! There are many levels of Jnr Dr depending upon chosen specialty and years needed to complete their specific training. Therefore different levels of pay depending upon hours on call and seniority. Having worked in the NHS since 1994 , front line may I add, I think I have a decent understanding of what Jnr Dr's are paid, and to throw round £78K a year as what a Jnr Dr earns is not true. Of course some will be on that sort of money but they are the ones close to the end of their training before becoming a consultant so well worth that level of pay. | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars.
No confusion. Registrars are junior doctors.
Sigh. Perhaps look a bit deeper than the first google page that comes up?"Perhaps you should look at the first Google page, it's from the British medical association! | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars.
No confusion. Registrars are junior doctors.
Sigh. Perhaps look a bit deeper than the first google page that comes up?
Perhaps you should look at the first Google page, it's from the British medical association! "Do you work for the NHS? | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars.
No confusion. Registrars are junior doctors.
Sigh. Perhaps look a bit deeper than the first google page that comes up?
Perhaps you should look at the first Google page, it's from the British medical association!
Do you work for the NHS?"Why, do you? | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars.
No confusion. Registrars are junior doctors.
Sigh. Perhaps look a bit deeper than the first google page that comes up?
Perhaps you should look at the first Google page, it's from the British medical association!
Do you work for the NHS?
Why, do you? "I did, I retired early. I was an advanced paramedic practitioner. You? | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie These people are ill paid overworked and undervalued. And have to put up with trills like you Nurses and doctors are different arguments. Ever met a poor doctor? Yes, many" Working minimum 13 hour shifts, “Over worked and under Paid” | |||
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. Does it really take 10 years after medical school ? But anyways , I’ve they qualify sat by 31, they are made the life right , very normal to make 200-300K a year plus an NHS smaller salary as the contracts allow them to take private work and set up businesses, unlike most professional that have non compete, restricted covenant and exclusivity clauses More than ten years from medical school in the case of hospital jobs and med school is five or six years. Very few would make anywhere near 200k! Drive around millionaires row in places like Solihull and Leicester , most are multi millionaires by 30. The NHS salary isn’t that important when you have a licence to prescribe or consult privately " Most doctors are multimillionaire by the time they are 30? I'm sorry but I'd love a source to collaborate that. | |||
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"https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/junior-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-junior-doctors-in-england For clarification see the above link. The top end of the pay scale you've quoted at 60k is a doctor with about 8 years experience, a second PhD in thier specialist research field, the year before they become a consultant. A new junior doc saddled with debt just from their education to get to their first job (before they even think about a mortgage), is 25-28k a year £35k actually is starting pay. see my comment regarding pensions, they are crying wolf regarding being poorly paid" It's not 35k starting salary. | |||
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"https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/junior-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-junior-doctors-in-england For clarification see the above link. The top end of the pay scale you've quoted at 60k is a doctor with about 8 years experience, a second PhD in thier specialist research field, the year before they become a consultant. A new junior doc saddled with debt just from their education to get to their first job (before they even think about a mortgage), is 25-28k a year £35k actually is starting pay. see my comment regarding pensions, they are crying wolf regarding being poorly paid It's not 35k starting salary." No you're correct, it isn't 35k. It's average is near 67k and also on average our junior doctors are the 3rd highest paid in Europe | |||
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"https://www.bma.org.uk/pay-and-contracts/pay/junior-doctors-pay-scales/pay-scales-for-junior-doctors-in-england For clarification see the above link. The top end of the pay scale you've quoted at 60k is a doctor with about 8 years experience, a second PhD in thier specialist research field, the year before they become a consultant. A new junior doc saddled with debt just from their education to get to their first job (before they even think about a mortgage), is 25-28k a year £35k actually is starting pay. see my comment regarding pensions, they are crying wolf regarding being poorly paid It's not 35k starting salary. No you're correct, it isn't 35k. It's average is near 67k and also on average our junior doctors are the 3rd highest paid in Europe" Foundation 1 and 2 doctors are on the starting salarly, so bottom of the scale, no need to discuss the average in relation to them. They don't earn 35k on basic rate. | |||
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"I hope I don’t open a can of worms here Don’t NHS doctors pay their own professional fees for registration and cet? I know when I was in optometry briefly the sums paid were surprising. It comes out your own pocket. So if for arguments sake your earning 37k but paying 8.5k in professional fees you’d be better off doing my job." You are correct. And they have to pay for the (very expensive) exams that they must pass to progress through the junior doctor ranks, to the level of consultant. And they pay for their own CPD as well, which is also expensive and essential for them to stay up to date with research and developments. | |||
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"I hope I don’t open a can of worms here Don’t NHS doctors pay their own professional fees for registration and cet? I know when I was in optometry briefly the sums paid were surprising. It comes out your own pocket. So if for arguments sake your earning 37k but paying 8.5k in professional fees you’d be better off doing my job." In audiology youre better off being trained by the nhs (best training).. Then going private and earning fortunes after a few years... | |||
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"That's total rubbish. No junior doctor is on without a senior. The hospital is covered by a consultant from every speciality at all times. On call and out of hours pay, unless as a locum is paid at a lower rate than regular work for most consultants. A senior doctor is not necessarily a consultant. I think you may be getting a bit confused with registrars.
No confusion. Registrars are junior doctors.
Sigh. Perhaps look a bit deeper than the first google page that comes up?
Perhaps you should look at the first Google page, it's from the British medical association!
Do you work for the NHS?
Why, do you?
I did, I retired early. I was an advanced paramedic practitioner. You?"Let's just say you should listen to what MacDreamy says. He's definitely speaking from the perspective of knowing his onions. Serious onions. | |||
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"I think we are discussing the symptom rather than the problem. The consultants pay is too high as the hours they work weren’t accounted for when the pay scales were worked out. So there is none left for anyone else. That’s a relatives opinion I’m borrowing as they were a dentist. As a consequence there is not enough left to fairly pay the less senior health professionals. There is nothing left for dentistry, any of us still got an NHS dentist? Maybe a few but I doubt it’s the majority. I don’t agree with the striking myself but something has to change before the system collapses or is privatised and excludes the most vulnerable people from healthcare. So I can appreciate why it is happening. I think an awful lot of cash is wasted on non clinical management and external business consultancy as well. To me that is criminal, an NHS manager should have at least 15-20 years clinical experience before they can make decisions that affect clinical staff and patients. One of the biggest expenses to the NHS is Agency Staff, they pay many times more per hour for agency staff, and a huge amount of that finishes as profits in private companies. If the NHS can't employ staff directly, they should create their own agency, and make this the ONLY agency that they will employ through. " Hospitals used to run their own "Bank" staffing, but more recently outsourced it to agencies, who collect mega bucks from the hourly rate. We work in education, where we can be charged over £200 a day for a science teacher. Imagine the uplift for medics. | |||
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"I hope I don’t open a can of worms here Don’t NHS doctors pay their own professional fees for registration and cet? I know when I was in optometry briefly the sums paid were surprising. It comes out your own pocket. So if for arguments sake your earning 37k but paying 8.5k in professional fees you’d be better off doing my job." Its a choice people make isnt it? A career. Pension. Holidays. Lifestyle. Job satisfaction. All go in the pot. | |||
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"I hope I don’t open a can of worms here Don’t NHS doctors pay their own professional fees for registration and cet? I know when I was in optometry briefly the sums paid were surprising. It comes out your own pocket. So if for arguments sake your earning 37k but paying 8.5k in professional fees you’d be better off doing my job. You are correct. And they have to pay for the (very expensive) exams that they must pass to progress through the junior doctor ranks, to the level of consultant. And they pay for their own CPD as well, which is also expensive and essential for them to stay up to date with research and developments. " Is CPD what I called CET (continued education and training)? I’ve not been in healthcare for about 2 decades so I’m well out of date. Also do you know if nurses pay registration and CPD fees? I’d be appalled if they do as I know several and they live way below the level of income I think is acceptable for the hours they work, the skills they have and the extreme responsibilities they carry. I also don’t think people realise the mental health strain on nurses that I have witnessed. Is that similar for Drs? I mean they all deal with stuff on a daily basis that would break a lot of us rapidly. | |||
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"I hope I don’t open a can of worms here Don’t NHS doctors pay their own professional fees for registration and cet? I know when I was in optometry briefly the sums paid were surprising. It comes out your own pocket. So if for arguments sake your earning 37k but paying 8.5k in professional fees you’d be better off doing my job. You are correct. And they have to pay for the (very expensive) exams that they must pass to progress through the junior doctor ranks, to the level of consultant. And they pay for their own CPD as well, which is also expensive and essential for them to stay up to date with research and developments. Is CPD what I called CET (continued education and training)? I’ve not been in healthcare for about 2 decades so I’m well out of date. Also do you know if nurses pay registration and CPD fees? I’d be appalled if they do as I know several and they live way below the level of income I think is acceptable for the hours they work, the skills they have and the extreme responsibilities they carry. I also don’t think people realise the mental health strain on nurses that I have witnessed. Is that similar for Drs? I mean they all deal with stuff on a daily basis that would break a lot of us rapidly." CPD = continuing professional development. Training, basically. And yes, nurses pay for their own registration etc too. | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie" My, aren't you special? How dare those Dr & Nurses go on strike, they should be payung for the privilege of serving their patients! | |||
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"Doctors and nurses are prepared to let your family and friends suffer and die for their greed. Think on that. I know I will be shouted down but withholding their labour will see people die. No, I do not know the alternative to strike action in their case but they claim to be doing this for "patient safety" and that is a blatant lie My, aren't you special? How dare those Dr & Nurses go on strike, they should be payung for the privilege of serving their patients!" I make 4 times what a UK junior doctor makes and I am a pharmacist. To keep the same level of care you should compensate the best and the brightest. They should strike. | |||
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"A fully qualified junior doctor earns around £60k a year, the pay claim they have submitted would take that to £78k a year After how many years of intensive study (which they pay back) and on the job training? It is their choice. Btw in the budget the chancellor raised the limit on pension contributions to meet doctors demands. They can afford to contribute £1 million but need more. They are really struggling!!" So you believe everything the tories tell you? They are using the doctors as cover to get the gullible on side and turn them agaisnt the strikers. This also applies to all their rich mates as a way to take money out of a business, tax free!! | |||
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" CPD = continuing professional development. Training, basically. And yes, nurses pay for their own registration etc too. " Ffs I think it’s time we start to give nurses and low ranking Dra a tip Im frightened we won’t have them in 10 years if it carries on like this or they will only be treating the wealthy | |||
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"I hope I don’t open a can of worms here Don’t NHS doctors pay their own professional fees for registration and cet? I know when I was in optometry briefly the sums paid were surprising. It comes out your own pocket. So if for arguments sake your earning 37k but paying 8.5k in professional fees you’d be better off doing my job. You are correct. And they have to pay for the (very expensive) exams that they must pass to progress through the junior doctor ranks, to the level of consultant. And they pay for their own CPD as well, which is also expensive and essential for them to stay up to date with research and developments. Is CPD what I called CET (continued education and training)? I’ve not been in healthcare for about 2 decades so I’m well out of date. Also do you know if nurses pay registration and CPD fees? I’d be appalled if they do as I know several and they live way below the level of income I think is acceptable for the hours they work, the skills they have and the extreme responsibilities they carry. I also don’t think people realise the mental health strain on nurses that I have witnessed. Is that similar for Drs? I mean they all deal with stuff on a daily basis that would break a lot of us rapidly." Nurses pay £120 per year to keep their registration/pin but CPD is paid for by the Trust where they work. Some Trusts don't provide much training and development though, they just give them enough to hit the target the NMC set for CPD hours, to enable them to get through their 3 yearly revalidation, otherwise they would lose their pins and wouldn't be able to work as nurses. | |||
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" Nurses pay £120 per year to keep their registration/pin but CPD is paid for by the Trust where they work. Some Trusts don't provide much training and development though, they just give them enough to hit the target the NMC set for CPD hours, to enable them to get through their 3 yearly revalidation, otherwise they would lose their pins and wouldn't be able to work as nurses. " Thank you for that, no where near as bad as I’d thought. | |||
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"As someone said on a different forum. Do they take into account the cost of all the training they get? Also, so i'm told, a large number of them go to work in other countries like Australia for better pay after the UK have trained them, no idea if this is true or not, just putting it out there" They pay for training Average doctor studrnt debt £82,000 Average nurse student debt £45,000 Both charged currently at 5.6% interest https://nursingnotes.co.uk/news/education/student-loan-interest-rate-skyrockets-to-12-in-england/ | |||
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"Isn’t the training a bit of each. A friend of my brothers became a Dr, her degree was super expensive because of all the extra curricular and vocational stuff that was required. She was fortunate to have parents able to support her as it was more than full time study as far as I could see. Then when she became a young dr I believe the training was partially provided in the work place and partially funded by her. That could be inaccurate though but being a registered health professional does carry eye watering fees." It is my understanding that doctors generally pay for their own. It is definitely the responsibility of individual doctors to organise and identity their own CPD. A quote from the BMJ: "You are responsible for completing your own CPD; that is identifying CPD needs for your practice, planning how you will address those needs, and undertaking relevant CPD activities. Reflecting on your standards of medical practice is necessitated by the Good Medical Practice framework; this also extends to reflecting on your CPD activities you carry out to determine whether your learning is adding value to the care you provide to your patients." | |||
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" It is my understanding that doctors generally pay for their own. It is definitely the responsibility of individual doctors to organise and identity their own CPD. A quote from the BMJ: "You are responsible for completing your own CPD; that is identifying CPD needs for your practice, planning how you will address those needs, and undertaking relevant CPD activities. Reflecting on your standards of medical practice is necessitated by the Good Medical Practice framework; this also extends to reflecting on your CPD activities you carry out to determine whether your learning is adding value to the care you provide to your patients."" Yes absolutely I’m sure that is the case. I meant that as a junior Dr I think your work is a bit like an apprenticeship. Perhaps the NHS is providing mentoring would have said it more clearly. | |||
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"A couple of comments. Health. Whatever that means. Isnt a party political matter. It doesnt only concern rich or poor, left or right. No country. Not the really "good" ones... Not the really "bad" ones... Not the EU. And certainly none of the G20 Are trying to replicate our way of providing health care and building health care for the future. Just pause there for a moments thought. Its been put to the country many times. Do we want to pay more for our health and the answer is a resounding no. Every time prescriptions go up there is outrage. We are a bunch of cheapskates who know the cost of stuff but the value of nothing. As for the strike. Anyone demanding a 35% pay rise isnt going to succeed, they know it. There is idiocy on all sides. Out of interest. In similar careers. How do vets or lawyers or architects training periods compare? Long periods of study and debt. Long hours. On the job training for further years to become proficient.? Anyone have insight? " Most other 'professional' careers have comparable qualification and training, including exams, assessment and CPD. Admittedly medicine is more rigorous than most - for obvious reasons. Remuneration in medicine is skewed to high earnings in mid-career (or how else can GPs work part-time and retire at 55?) | |||
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"lol Dr Rob Laurenson encourages all doctors to go on strike and then he takes holidays on the dates of the strikes, you couldnt make it up if you wanted too" His holiday was booked for a family wedding what do you expect him to do? | |||
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"lol Dr Rob Laurenson encourages all doctors to go on strike and then he takes holidays on the dates of the strikes, you couldnt make it up if you wanted too His holiday was booked for a family wedding what do you expect him to do? " yes, ofcourse it was
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"What exactly is a junior doctor compared to a normal duct or because all the doctors I know are millionaires , they setup all kinds of business in aesthetics, prescribing botox etc and still do stiff on NHS but make a killing in medicine etc A junior doctor is a doctor who has qualified as a doctor, but is still undergoing training (around 10 years) towards being a consultant, GP, or Specialist. Does it really take 10 years after medical school ? But anyways , I’ve they qualify sat by 31, they are made the life right , very normal to make 200-300K a year plus an NHS smaller salary as the contracts allow them to take private work and set up businesses, unlike most professional that have non compete, restricted covenant and exclusivity clauses More than ten years from medical school in the case of hospital jobs and med school is five or six years. Very few would make anywhere near 200k! Drive around millionaires row in places like Solihull and Leicester , most are multi millionaires by 30. The NHS salary isn’t that important when you have a licence to prescribe or consult privately " Simply the most comical post I've seen on Fab for many a year | |||
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"lol Dr Rob Laurenson encourages all doctors to go on strike and then he takes holidays on the dates of the strikes, you couldnt make it up if you wanted too His holiday was booked for a family wedding what do you expect him to do? yes, ofcourse it was
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pathetic."No need for that attitude simply because someones leave entitlement has been taken. Or perhaps the wedding should have been cancelled? | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. But. 35%?!" They will not get that of course but no harm going in with a strong figure and showing that you mean business. They've not had a wage rise for a very long time. Meanwhile all of the vile money grabbing MPs get a rise each year and never knock it back . Despicable. | |||
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"lol Dr Rob Laurenson encourages all doctors to go on strike and then he takes holidays on the dates of the strikes, you couldnt make it up if you wanted too His holiday was booked for a family wedding what do you expect him to do? yes, ofcourse it was
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pathetic."Do you have evidence it is otherwise than stated? If not, hush. | |||
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"lol Dr Rob Laurenson encourages all doctors to go on strike and then he takes holidays on the dates of the strikes, you couldnt make it up if you wanted too His holiday was booked for a family wedding what do you expect him to do? yes, ofcourse it was
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pathetic."I mean I guess the wedding he has been pictured at could have been arranged after the strike at very short notice just to facilitate a few days leave. But it seems unlikely... | |||
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"A fully qualified junior doctor earns around £60k a year, the pay claim they have submitted would take that to £78k a year After how many years of intensive study (which they pay back) and on the job training? It is their choice. Btw in the budget the chancellor raised the limit on pension contributions to meet doctors demands. They can afford to contribute £1 million but need more. They are really struggling!!" Tell me Harry; when you try adding 2 to 2 do you often get 4 ? | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. But. 35%?!" but life over death you cant put a price to it | |||
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"For years, many NHS staff have been paid below the rate of inflation, effectively resulting in salary decreases year on year. This is in addition to rock-bottom staffing levels, poor working conditions and low morale. Pay restoration is is just staff asking to be paid a fair living wage. Why is this so wrong? " Thing is you cant turn the clock back. Sadly lots of folks have experienced exactly the same as you say all the nhs has. Doesnt make it right nor wrong, its just some relevant context. What is a fair living wage? How is such a concept established? Should the same principle then be applied to all workers? | |||
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"lol Dr Rob Laurenson encourages all doctors to go on strike and then he takes holidays on the dates of the strikes, you couldnt make it up if you wanted too" Ok, can you tell me what difference you think it makes whether he is on holiday during the strike? You lose ten fab points if you mention 'negotiation' at any point in your answer. | |||
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"I was just discharged from hospital a couple of hours ago after suspected heart disease. I saw the junior doctors at the picket line when I got into A&E two days ago. I respect them and respect the right they have to strike. Having spent about 12 hrs in A&E and seeing the way doctors are spoken to by some people makes me wonder why on earth they’d want to do this job. Especially at £14 an hour. They do it because they have true vocation. My complete respect to all NHS staff and I hope someday they are rewarded fairly for their time, dedication and vocation. "Espero que estés bien, amiga | |||
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"For years, many NHS staff have been paid below the rate of inflation, effectively resulting in salary decreases year on year. This is in addition to rock-bottom staffing levels, poor working conditions and low morale. Pay restoration is is just staff asking to be paid a fair living wage. Why is this so wrong? Thing is you cant turn the clock back. Sadly lots of folks have experienced exactly the same as you say all the nhs has. Doesnt make it right nor wrong, its just some relevant context. What is a fair living wage? How is such a concept established? Should the same principle then be applied to all workers? " How does comparing this particular strike for these particular workers with other workers help? Other workers may be worse off. It doesn't mean what the junior doctors are asking for isn't valid. | |||
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"For years, many NHS staff have been paid below the rate of inflation, effectively resulting in salary decreases year on year. This is in addition to rock-bottom staffing levels, poor working conditions and low morale. Pay restoration is is just staff asking to be paid a fair living wage. Why is this so wrong? Thing is you cant turn the clock back. Sadly lots of folks have experienced exactly the same as you say all the nhs has. Doesnt make it right nor wrong, its just some relevant context. What is a fair living wage? How is such a concept established? Should the same principle then be applied to all workers? How does comparing this particular strike for these particular workers with other workers help? Other workers may be worse off. It doesn't mean what the junior doctors are asking for isn't valid." No it doesnt. But is what they are asking for a fair living wage, and a fair pension package? How and who decides its fair? Is fair the measure by which pay disputes are to be settled? | |||
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"For years, many NHS staff have been paid below the rate of inflation, effectively resulting in salary decreases year on year. This is in addition to rock-bottom staffing levels, poor working conditions and low morale. Pay restoration is is just staff asking to be paid a fair living wage. Why is this so wrong? Thing is you cant turn the clock back. Sadly lots of folks have experienced exactly the same as you say all the nhs has. Doesnt make it right nor wrong, its just some relevant context. What is a fair living wage? How is such a concept established? Should the same principle then be applied to all workers? How does comparing this particular strike for these particular workers with other workers help? Other workers may be worse off. It doesn't mean what the junior doctors are asking for isn't valid. No it doesnt. But is what they are asking for a fair living wage, and a fair pension package? How and who decides its fair? Is fair the measure by which pay disputes are to be settled? " I think you know there are no concrete answers to those questions. | |||
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"Just seen a post online. Often the most senior surgeon on shift at night Performs life saving surgery on your child. Then comes in on day off to see if you are ok. All for £22 an hour which is less than his barber. That can’t be right…… " What a ridiculous comparison. The barber has overheads, he may see only 1 client that day. £22 an hour is more than some councils pay for social care. That has to pay the carer, the office team, managers, training, office rent, business rates, NI,cqc fees, software licences etc etc etc. Don't see anyone striking over that, because they genuinely care for clients. How many dying is acceptable collateral damage for doctors to get what they want? There should be another way. | |||
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"Just seen a post online. Often the most senior surgeon on shift at night Performs life saving surgery on your child. Then comes in on day off to see if you are ok. All for £22 an hour which is less than his barber. That can’t be right…… What a ridiculous comparison. The barber has overheads, he may see only 1 client that day. £22 an hour is more than some councils pay for social care. That has to pay the carer, the office team, managers, training, office rent, business rates, NI,cqc fees, software licences etc etc etc. Don't see anyone striking over that, because they genuinely care for clients. How many dying is acceptable collateral damage for doctors to get what they want? There should be another way." Those working in social care should be paid more. For sure. But stating that they wouldn't strike because they care for their clients? The implication that doctors and nurses don't?  Really, can anyone in a caring profession never fight for better conditions and pay? | |||
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"Just seen a post online. Often the most senior surgeon on shift at night Performs life saving surgery on your child. Then comes in on day off to see if you are ok. All for £22 an hour which is less than his barber. That can’t be right…… What a ridiculous comparison. The barber has overheads, he may see only 1 client that day. £22 an hour is more than some councils pay for social care. That has to pay the carer, the office team, managers, training, office rent, business rates, NI,cqc fees, software licences etc etc etc. Don't see anyone striking over that, because they genuinely care for clients. How many dying is acceptable collateral damage for doctors to get what they want? There should be another way." People in social care aren't striking bevause it's a sector with minimal unionisation which leaves them open to exploitation from their employers. That's the harsh reality. It's certainly not because they cate more despite what you might imply | |||
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"Also, so i'm told, a large number of them go to work in other countries like Australia for better pay after the UK have trained them, no idea if this is true or not, just putting it out there" ^ social media in a nutshell right there... | |||
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" People in social care aren't striking bevause it's a sector with minimal unionisation which leaves them open to exploitation from their employers. That's the harsh reality. It's certainly not because they cate more despite what you might imply" The employers are exploited by councils and NHS. I refer back to my £22/hour comments. | |||
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"It is sad that some people think Consultants sit in their office chatting all day or are down Harley Street making millions. I don't know a single colleague who does either of those. Instead after 15 years of surgical training, my reward is to be waiting in theatre now at 2am to perform an operation which I hope will save someone's life. This is normal for me and is not just because my junior team are on strike. I could correct many other inaccuracies in the thread but let's just say that both junior and senior doctors in the NHS work hard everyday to keep you safe and well. I will leave you to decide what you think that is worth. " Its worth a lot coming from the mouth of a swinging junior Dr. I don't put a price on it and good luck  | |||
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"Just seen a post online. Often the most senior surgeon on shift at night Performs life saving surgery on your child. Then comes in on day off to see if you are ok. All for £22 an hour which is less than his barber. That can’t be right…… What a ridiculous comparison. The barber has overheads, he may see only 1 client that day. £22 an hour is more than some councils pay for social care. That has to pay the carer, the office team, managers, training, office rent, business rates, NI,cqc fees, software licences etc etc etc. Don't see anyone striking over that, because they genuinely care for clients. How many dying is acceptable collateral damage for doctors to get what they want? There should be another way." There should and is, it's called dialogue. However the government don't listen or sometimes even meet the unions unless there's strikes. | |||
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"It is sad that some people think Consultants sit in their office chatting all day or are down Harley Street making millions. I don't know a single colleague who does either of those. Instead after 15 years of surgical training, my reward is to be waiting in theatre now at 2am to perform an operation which I hope will save someone's life. This is normal for me and is not just because my junior team are on strike. I could correct many other inaccuracies in the thread but let's just say that both junior and senior doctors in the NHS work hard everyday to keep you safe and well. I will leave you to decide what you think that is worth. " Back to the emotional black hole of paying someone what some other people think they are worth. Not sure that is how pay and pension package agreements are constructed, based on what poorly informed but emotionally invested bystanders think. Good work last night. Hope the procedure went well for all. | |||
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"Just seen a post online. Often the most senior surgeon on shift at night Performs life saving surgery on your child. Then comes in on day off to see if you are ok. All for £22 an hour which is less than his barber. That can’t be right…… What a ridiculous comparison. The barber has overheads, he may see only 1 client that day. £22 an hour is more than some councils pay for social care. That has to pay the carer, the office team, managers, training, office rent, business rates, NI,cqc fees, software licences etc etc etc. Don't see anyone striking over that, because they genuinely care for clients. How many dying is acceptable collateral damage for doctors to get what they want? There should be another way. There should and is, it's called dialogue. However the government don't listen or sometimes even meet the unions unless there's strikes. " I read that Steve Barclay was in negotiations with the BMA for just 30 minutes last month before he walked. He was on Twitter denigrating them just yesterday - hasn't made a counter offer and now ACAS may need to step in because he won't negotiate. | |||
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"As someone said on a different forum. Do they take into account the cost of all the training they get? Also, so i'm told, a large number of them go to work in other countries like Australia for better pay after the UK have trained them, no idea if this is true or not, just putting it out there" Wanted down under on the telly has loads of NHS workers on it going to Australia and NZ for a better work life balance | |||
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"In the context of the last 3 years, all healthcare professionals risked (and some even lost) thier lives going into work during the covid pandemic ... i think on reflection the government response promoting meaningless claps seems a bit sickening and more needs to be done to pay these people fairly. This all whilst MP clinked champagne glasses at the heart of government in illegal lockdown parties. Also, Crap useless PPE bought and sold at mates rates between Conservative cronies profiteering out of the pandemic, whilst healthcare professionals share masks, wear bin bags take year on year realterms pay-cuts over a decade of Tory dismantling NHS services. Does anyone think these professionals are worth 15-30% less than they were 15 years ago? A new junior doctor gets £14/ hour (35% increase will make this up to £19/hr). After 6 years of medical school accrued debt of 50-80k before they even earn thier first payslip. A new nurse will earn even less... overall what do you think they should do and what do you think they are worth? Get similar money at Aldi/Lidl, its a farce " | |||
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"Though I support anyone who strikes. I do find it a bit disingenuous to compare the Drs wages to retail or hospitality staff. Hospitality staff for example are often on zero hours contracts, if the restaurant isn't busy they're told to go home. So no monthly pay security. No redundancy packages, no pension schemes and often no career progression, in 20 years time which job would the majority prefer to be in? I don't think it's a helpful comparison and is more likely to cause resentment towards the junior doctors. " Though the specific comparison with Aldi/Lidl may be fair. They don't use zero hours contracts. They also have increased hourly pay four times this year to reflect the increased cost of living. Minimum hourly rate at Aldi now is £11.40ph or £12.85ph within the M25. Which is, obviously, less than junior docs starting out, who apparently earn around the equivalent of £14ph. | |||
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"Though I support anyone who strikes. I do find it a bit disingenuous to compare the Drs wages to retail or hospitality staff. Hospitality staff for example are often on zero hours contracts, if the restaurant isn't busy they're told to go home. So no monthly pay security. No redundancy packages, no pension schemes and often no career progression, in 20 years time which job would the majority prefer to be in? I don't think it's a helpful comparison and is more likely to cause resentment towards the junior doctors. Though the specific comparison with Aldi/Lidl may be fair. They don't use zero hours contracts. They also have increased hourly pay four times this year to reflect the increased cost of living. Minimum hourly rate at Aldi now is £11.40ph or £12.85ph within the M25. Which is, obviously, less than junior docs starting out, who apparently earn around the equivalent of £14ph." Which is why I used hospitality staff for comparison. It doesn't invalidate the points of job security, pensions and clearly defined career progression routes. They are not comparable careers even if the starting wages may be similar. | |||
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"Though I support anyone who strikes. I do find it a bit disingenuous to compare the Drs wages to retail or hospitality staff. Hospitality staff for example are often on zero hours contracts, if the restaurant isn't busy they're told to go home. So no monthly pay security. No redundancy packages, no pension schemes and often no career progression, in 20 years time which job would the majority prefer to be in? I don't think it's a helpful comparison and is more likely to cause resentment towards the junior doctors. Though the specific comparison with Aldi/Lidl may be fair. They don't use zero hours contracts. They also have increased hourly pay four times this year to reflect the increased cost of living. Minimum hourly rate at Aldi now is £11.40ph or £12.85ph within the M25. Which is, obviously, less than junior docs starting out, who apparently earn around the equivalent of £14ph. Which is why I used hospitality staff for comparison. It doesn't invalidate the points of job security, pensions and clearly defined career progression routes. They are not comparable careers even if the starting wages may be similar. " I agree on that comparison, was taking the earlier retail comparison given by another poster (of Aldi/Lidl). | |||
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"Doctors have striked not only for the pay but due to poor working conditions "Yup, same as teachers and lecturers. But the media only focusses on pay | |||
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"Sadly, my Dad passed away a couple of days ago I have got to say, the professionalism, understanding and warmth we were shown during his last couple of hours was outstanding From the ambulance crew, through to the nurses, through to the 3 doctors that came to assess him, it was just seamless They acted as one and despite being undeniably busy, made his final moments much, much easier than they could have been They deserve better Those that put them down for trying to better their lot, do not deserve them " Sorry for your loss Bussy x | |||
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"Sadly, my Dad passed away a couple of days ago I have got to say, the professionalism, understanding and warmth we were shown during his last couple of hours was outstanding From the ambulance crew, through to the nurses, through to the 3 doctors that came to assess him, it was just seamless They acted as one and despite being undeniably busy, made his final moments much, much easier than they could have been They deserve better Those that put them down for trying to better their lot, do not deserve them " I'm sorry to hear about your dad.  | |||
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"I spent a lot of time in hospital last year. Once was for four weeks and really see how damn hard they work. They never stopped for breaks or if they did they where always late taking them. The last time I went in it was boiling hot summer and they where running around in their masks sweating their bollocks of for 12 1/2 hrs then had to be back in work the next day. I also saw how some patients treated them and it wasn't pleasant. I do worry if I have an emergency when the strikes are on though " Nothing to worry about the A and E is well staffed with consultants | |||
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"I do have friends who are doctors and nurses. Nearly half have left for Oz, Canada and US. One of them is a neurosurgeon, who left his £90k consultant job here and moved to US for $500k, this was a few years ago and is currently on $1.2mn; we all can decide what healthcare staff are worth. " I also have a friend that is a heart surgeon and was a consultant in the NHS. I don't know what he earnt when he lived in the UK, never needed to ask or was told lol. But he now lives and works in New York in an apartment not far from where John Lennon lived, he also has a marina house overlooking Miami worth over $5m. The reason i'm posting this is because we are told time and time again by our government is unless we pay the highly skilled enough, they will leave. They are always talking about Bankers and multi billionairs of course. What really matters though is the transferable skills of our NHS staff. Paying them enough to actually keep them within the NHS is what this is all about. I have another friend that is an HCA in the NHS, she chooses to only work part time for the NHS to actually keep her credentials live. She actually works in the private sector to actually earn a living. | |||
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"I do have friends who are doctors and nurses. Nearly half have left for Oz, Canada and US. One of them is a neurosurgeon, who left his £90k consultant job here and moved to US for $500k, this was a few years ago and is currently on $1.2mn; we all can decide what healthcare staff are worth. I also have a friend that is a heart surgeon and was a consultant in the NHS. I don't know what he earnt when he lived in the UK, never needed to ask or was told lol. But he now lives and works in New York in an apartment not far from where John Lennon lived, he also has a marina house overlooking Miami worth over $5m. The reason i'm posting this is because we are told time and time again by our government is unless we pay the highly skilled enough, they will leave. They are always talking about Bankers and multi billionairs of course. What really matters though is the transferable skills of our NHS staff. Paying them enough to actually keep them within the NHS is what this is all about. I have another friend that is an HCA in the NHS, she chooses to only work part time for the NHS to actually keep her credentials live. She actually works in the private sector to actually earn a living. " Its a good point. The coexistance of the same people in the same hospital using thr same resources and seeingthe same patient's. On a tuesday its a private clinic and on a weds its an nhs clinic. One they get paid a fortune for the other they get paid whatever nhs pays. It doesnt work. As for those good enough and lucky enough to get offered multi millions to live in new york. Im assuming that is like every other profession. If youre at the very top you get great opportunities open up. Much like top footballers. But not every footballer... Nor junior dr is going to get offered 5m a year in the private sector | |||
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"And in Australia they would earn more than double to do the same job. A lawyer with similar training is on twice as much too. Year on year there are pay freezes or below inflation rises. The private sector jobs match inflation but because in the UK there is no alternative to the NHS they pay peanuts. At some point it has to change. " UK is a very poor country , it has no money and services that government interfere with like transport, housing, borders, health and education are all very broken. Giving all the doctors 35% will just make everything else even worse. The government should reduce taxes instead and let the private sector fix everything , because they clearly can’t do it | |||
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"And in Australia they would earn more than double to do the same job. A lawyer with similar training is on twice as much too. Year on year there are pay freezes or below inflation rises. The private sector jobs match inflation but because in the UK there is no alternative to the NHS they pay peanuts. At some point it has to change. UK is a very poor country , it has no money and services that government interfere with like transport, housing, borders, health and education are all very broken. Giving all the doctors 35% will just make everything else even worse. The government should reduce taxes instead and let the private sector fix everything , because they clearly can’t do it " Sad but true and on the money | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. But. 35%?!" You have to look at the crap they have had over past 10 years Way below or none We were all happy for their sacrifices during lockdown You wanna put your self in their situation Would you have risked your life or your family’s life for the pittance they are on ? Hos we forget !!! Don’t look at it as 35 % but 3.5% over 10 years Doesn’t look as much does it Stop falling for all the right wing misdirection | |||
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"And in Australia they would earn more than double to do the same job. A lawyer with similar training is on twice as much too. Year on year there are pay freezes or below inflation rises. The private sector jobs match inflation but because in the UK there is no alternative to the NHS they pay peanuts. At some point it has to change. UK is a very poor country , it has no money and services that government interfere with like transport, housing, borders, health and education are all very broken. Giving all the doctors 35% will just make everything else even worse. The government should reduce taxes instead and let the private sector fix everything , because they clearly can’t do it " The Government don't want to fix this mess. It's of their own doing. They want to make everyone think it cannot be fixed so privatisation looks attractive so they can then sell it of to their mates and cronies xxx | |||
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"I'm striking for pay and conditions. When the government started to mess about with minimum wage they failed to lift every wage. I retrained to get a professional (at the time) well paid job. I tolerated 10 years of austerity in the hope it would change. However, know I see people on the same wage or better than me Without the hassle that goes along with my job. I'm all for the minimum wage but Common sense should come to the forefront and lift wages in all jobs otherwise whats the incentive. That then is socialism in my view. Why work hard and take on debt to get yourself a reaso able career if you are on thw same as someone who doesn't. Oh and I do think lower paid should get more than they do. I feel the cleaners and auxiliary staff at whatever institution are to over looked. They have my vote any day for heros of the NHS." one persons wage say a professional footballer can't be compared to a Dr. I mean the footballer dies to score a goal the Dr. just saves people | |||
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"And in Australia they would earn more than double to do the same job. A lawyer with similar training is on twice as much too. Year on year there are pay freezes or below inflation rises. The private sector jobs match inflation but because in the UK there is no alternative to the NHS they pay peanuts. At some point it has to change. UK is a very poor country , it has no money and services that government interfere with like transport, housing, borders, health and education are all very broken. Giving all the doctors 35% will just make everything else even worse. The government should reduce taxes instead and let the private sector fix everything , because they clearly can’t do it " Ten years ago (ish) the NHS was the best performing health care system in the world according to several metrics. It clearly can thrive whilst being publicly funded, but it requires a government that doesn't believe in the primacy of the market in all things at all times to do so. All those services you list are broken because the government doesn't want them to flourish. It isn't a failure of public funding but a policy choice. | |||
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"Just wanted to stay from my perspective good luck to them. Hope people start to see how much the NHS relies on you and how valuable your role is along with the nurses, paramedics and other AHPs. " Yes!!!! | |||
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