FabSwingers.com forum: Teachers are voting to go on strike.

By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

Thousands of schools in england and wales are set to close in february after teachers voted to strike, union leaders have announced, as nurses also prepare for further stoppages.

What do you think of the strikes? As so many schools will be closed, how will the pupils get their education during this time?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think that they have the right to strike over pay and working conditions and should be able to.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes.

30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed

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By *heVonMatterhornsCouple
over a year ago

Lincoln

"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes.

30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed

True but if a strike didn't affect other people, it wouldn't have much of an effect.

LvM

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved.

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

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By *rishman75Man
over a year ago

Chessington/epsom

I'm backing the strikes

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Edit 20 plus year old I ment (23, 24 and so on)

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By *ablo minibar123Woman
over a year ago

By the looks of it, it's only the odd day here and there for certain regions so I'm sure it won't make a huge difference to their education, and a lot of homework and lessons can be sent through online anyway.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

I watched an interview this morning on BBC with Pat Cullen to do with the nurses strikes. While I back the nurses this lady reminded me of a politician and didn't give a straight answer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

And they are striking over pay?!!

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

And they are striking over pay?!!"

Not sure, the OP didn't add that bit !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I fully support their right to strike as long as they do it as the weekends.

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By *ayHaychMan
over a year ago

Leeds (Home) / Sheffield (Work)

28k sounds great for a 9-5 but that’s not the reality is it…

Many members of my family are teachers. I have worked in schools, and work regularly with them in my current role. Teachers work so much in their own time that it becomes ridiculous. On top of that some then need to buy resources themselves.

Teaching, like many other roles, is a thankless job. Teachers could “quiet quit” instead of strike but then we’ll see how shit the education system can get!

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By *hagTonight OP Man
over a year ago

From the land of haribos.

"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes.

30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed

"
Yes. I also feel sorry for the joe, they also interviewed parents and they arent happy about it, as they have to take time of work, yes, it is sad times too for the nhs as their patients have to wait for their operations.

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By *ush12345Woman
over a year ago

Northwich

"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes.

30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed. .. So True! As we think we are struggling now!. Waiting and see what the economy looks like after everyone gets there pay rise and businesses go bust, the money has to come from somewhere!. So everything will go up then!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like a lot of things, there is an expection on public service to be the best at the lowest price pissible. Its simply not fair to keep seeing people work longer and harder without fair pay for what they provide. Fully supportive of them.

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By *pider-WomanWoman
over a year ago

Exeter, Bristol, Plymouth, Truro

My sons taking his exams this year so every day counts. He's already lost at least a year of education. Done of this is taken into consideration this year.

I'm not sure where all this will end as the money has to come from somewhere. We are all worse off financially no matter what your profession. We are all as important as each other.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week.

There are people in the private sector who are taken out by suppliers just so they buy Thier products or use their services, these costs are passed on the the general public, not taken from the company's profits.

Many of them will be verbally and physically abused on a daily basis without any consequences or backup from their managers or local council who they work for.

These newly qualified teacher will also be paying back their student loans, roughly about 4% from their gross salary then 9.7% pension. Let's face it old age pensions in this county have been erroded for many years.

Let's remember that the salaries teachers are paid go back into the economy and help to pay for the private sector through the circular flow of money.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 18/01/23 09:05:57]

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"Twenty eight thousand may seem like a lot of money and to many it will be but there is a lot of responsibility that goes with that, as it does in the private sector. In the private sector most people will be paid for the extra hours they work, this isn't the case for a teacher who will probably do at least 20 hours unpaid work per week.

Many of them will be verbally and physically abused on a daily basis without any consequences or backup from their managers or local council who they work for.

Let's remember that the salaries teachers are paid go back into the economy and help to pay for the private sector through the circular flow of money."

100%

You can often (not always the case) tell the difference between a public and private employee based upon their empathy and compassion for these things, especially when it comes to being valued by the extra work and effort that goes in without the feeling of being valued for what you do.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Ultimately like all the public sector, 12 years of austerity has reached its inevitable culmination now that the cost of living crisis. This is a problem entirely of the tories own making.

The money is there when Truss tanked the economy they found billions. They could tax the oil and gas companies they could put a windfall tax on the elite, they could revoke private schools charitable status which would raise billions, they could recoup the money they paid out to their mates for non existent PPE, they could clamp down on tax evasion, they could acknowledge the catastrophic impact Brexit has had on the economy and try and resolve that

The options are there. We don't all have to pay for it at all.

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By *eam69Couple
over a year ago

hayling island

If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !

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By *eam69Couple
over a year ago

hayling island

[Removed by poster at 18/01/23 09:33:03]

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training?

It evens itself out I think more than fairly

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By *eam69Couple
over a year ago

hayling island

"By the looks of it, it's only the odd day here and there for certain regions so I'm sure it won't make a huge difference to their education, and a lot of homework and lessons can be sent through online anyway. "

Thats totally right, but what about the thousands of parents who then either have to take a day off work or organise child care for that day. Its those pepole who are effected too

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By *ack 500Man
over a year ago

stafford

Not fair on the kids , they have missed so much due to Covid ! They are so far behind compared to

Others another delay in their learning is unfair

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006.

Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have...

19k

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

"Thats totally right, but what about the thousands of parents who then either have to take a day off work or organise child care for that day. Its those pepole who are effected too"

So teachers (or anyone who strikes) has to put YOUR needs before their own, despite the fact you show none of that same empathy for their own position by taking that very stance because it inconveniences you.

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training?

It evens itself out I think more than fairly "

This is a common argument by people who have no clue what teachers go through and how much extra time they work during supposed "off hours"

Teachers generally have significantly higher hour requirements and stress levels than many higher paid professions. The public holiday allowance does not come close to accounting for the low salary.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006.

Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have...

19k

It's £28k according to Google. I'm an LSA on £14k, Agency

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !"

But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school

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By *ris GrayMan
over a year ago

Dorchester

"Thousands of schools in england and wales are set to close in february after teachers voted to strike, union leaders have announced, as nurses also prepare for further stoppages.

What do you think of the strikes? As so many schools will be closed, how will the pupils get their education during this time?"
I think one out all out, give the kids a break from learning its too much for their little brains

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By *eam69Couple
over a year ago

hayling island

"Thats totally right, but what about the thousands of parents who then either have to take a day off work or organise child care for that day. Its those pepole who are effected too

If you don't like the job you do or unsatisfied with the conditions then don't do it. Do you think just because you go on strike that the next day you go to work everything will of changed for the better ? So no I don't have sympathy or empathy for pepole who go on strike.

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006.

Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have...

19k

It's £28k according to Google. I'm an LSA on £14k, Agency"

The inflation bit was a joke mate

14k is ridiculous! Sorry but Jesus -I'm sorry dude. Kudos to you but don't know how you do it.

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By *eam69Couple
over a year ago

hayling island

"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !

But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school "

Without a fine for a holiday ?

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !

But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school

Without a fine for a holiday ?"

Is that not only if it's excessive?

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes.

30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed

True but if a strike didn't affect other people, it wouldn't have much of an effect.

LvM"

This is the whole point ^^

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By *reenleavesCouple
over a year ago

North Wales

Many of them will be verbally and physically abused on a daily basis without any consequences or backup from their managers or local council who they work for.

Let's remember that the salaries teachers are paid go back into the economy and help to pay for the private sector through the circular flow of money."

EXACTLY THIS!! We know several teachers and TAs and this is the reality of it. One worked out that they were working for not much more than minimum wage, once their 'out of hours' work was taken into account. If teaching staff were to 'quiet quit', it would cost the government millions in extra staffing to pick up the shortfall in work.

The abuse and constant shadow looming over them of being suspended, sacked or imprisoned for the vaguest suggestion of misconduct. If I went to a council library and trashed the place whilst filming the librarians reaction for tiktok, I would fully expect to be arrested. The library would likely receive compensation from me and the staff would be offered counselling. Do it in a school as a school kid? Suspend the kid for a couple of days and give the teacher a bollocking before sending them back to teaching.

There was a really low turnout for the vote to strike. Not because they didn't want to strike. It's because they knew strike action was needed but they couldn't bring themselves to advocate abandoning their kids.

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary."

It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary.

It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids"

Amen

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary.

It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids"

This is so true. I'd add into that early years educators, child minders and carers in general. The most vulnerable people in society and we value the people who look after them so little. Don't get me started on sports people's wages in comparison

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary."

I've never earned anywhere near that, thats huge money to me.

Longest I've spent in a job was 25+ years

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary."

In this area rent on a small house is around £1000 a month, the same house to buy would be around £300k. £28k wouldn't touch the sides after utilities

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Personally, I don't agree with strikes. Most of us are struggling at the moment and ultimately who pays? we do, higher tax, less money to go around. Private sector and small businesses can not go on strike, and they don't get the pay rises postal workers etc are demanding. It all gets passed on down the line to the general public, making everyone's lives even harder.

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Teachers are striking so that kids get a good education.

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it."

You can't possibly know how someone's personal finances are structured based on the flashy products they buy. Plenty of people in the States live in mobile homes (trailer parks) with insanely expensive cars/trucks parked out front.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Last I heard, (years ago now) the teaching profession had issues in staff retention. Issues were around hours, increased class sizes, how behaviour was handled, the ease at which they could be fired, pay, basic resources like computing and books to wider funding like free school meals enabling better education.

If people want well educated kids, paying teachers is one area where it'll very likely benefit future society.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it."

What better ways would yiu suggest?

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it."

Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Personally, I don't agree with strikes. Most of us are struggling at the moment and ultimately who pays? we do, higher tax, less money to go around. Private sector and small businesses can not go on strike, and they don't get the pay rises postal workers etc are demanding. It all gets passed on down the line to the general public, making everyone's lives even harder."

The private sector can go on strike, but thise in the private sector are rarely in a union. If staff are unhappy they need to unionise and mobilise

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary.

It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids

Same with carers for the elderly, be that community care or care/nursing homes. They staff are paid a pittance.

We don't care about the vulnerable and we don't value those who care for them.

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By *ab FunstersCouple
over a year ago

Midlands

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work."

If they don't have a regular teaching post they go down the supply teacher route.

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By *uri00620Woman
over a year ago

Croydon

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By *aldoniaMan
over a year ago

Coventry

Try Googling teacher salary scales and you’ll see what they’re paid now. Over ten years ago I worked in finance in a school and the deputy heads (plural) were all on over £75k….. a decade ago. After reading the salary scale can someone please tell me where else one can get paid that and 13 weeks holiday….. and don’t try and tell me they do lesson prep during this time….. been there and experienced what they actually do for the money!!!

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary.

It also reflects on how little people value the people they entrust to educate their kids

Same with carers for the elderly, be that community care or care/nursing homes. They staff are paid a pittance.

We don't care about the vulnerable and we don't value those who care for them.

Kicking a ball around a pitch for a couple of hours is definitely more important

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By *ab FunstersCouple
over a year ago

Midlands

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it."

So how would you suggest they deal with it?

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary.

In this area rent on a small house is around £1000 a month, the same house to buy would be around £300k. £28k wouldn't touch the sides after utilities "

Lucky to find a one bedroomed flat for much less than a grand around here, and they sell for £200k.

Teacher's starting salaries have barely moved in 12 years but property prices have.

I saw a post on Facebook yesterday and a FY2 doctor (second year junior) was earning barely more than their colleague had earned I 2004 at the same level of experience yet costs have rocketed.

It's ridiculous. And back to my earlier post, what we are seeing now is the inevitable culmination of 12 years of austerity

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Try Googling teacher salary scales and you’ll see what they’re paid now. Over ten years ago I worked in finance in a school and the deputy heads (plural) were all on over £75k….. a decade ago. After reading the salary scale can someone please tell me where else one can get paid that and 13 weeks holiday….. and don’t try and tell me they do lesson prep during this time….. been there and experienced what they actually do for the money!!! "

What do they do for the money?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As a parents and commuters strikes are ridiculously frustrating. On the flip side nurses and teachers are ridiculously overworked and under paid.

Despite the mentioned £28k starting salary 20% leave in the first year. £28k is also £3k lower than the average salary for graduates.

There are not enough qualified teachers teaching Maths and English (by which I mean qualified in those subjects). Teachers and nurses are leaving by the droves and it’s not just about money.

It’s frustrating but something needs to be done to help them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Experienced teachers £40-50k,13 weeks holiday,gold plated pensions. The lies of working until 10pm and weekends and through school holidays are just that,lies.They either holiday throughout or earn extra money marking exams.As for we have to prepare our lessons and spend weeks doing so,a simple question for teachers, is the national curriculum reset each year? It's like saying every employee starts from scratch whenever they have time off.

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By *urchoicenowCouple
over a year ago

Ashford

Everyone has the right to strike and so they should but people seem to forget that it's the private sector that pay for a strong public sector. With teachers, nurses, train drivers et al going on strike for more money, where do they think this cash is coming from?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The strikes are four days maximum, it's not going to have a huge impact on the kids education. Lockdown proved that virtual learning was possible so for secondary students especially, they'll cope. As much as it's a pain and a bit of a work around, I support the strikes. Our school system needs an overhaul, there needs to be more funding for resources, more help for senco department's, TAs etc. One of my children's schools is always asking the parents for money. Every week there is a "fundraising effort" of some kind that costs us money. We do it so the kids don't miss out but it shouldn't be needed to that degree.

Pxx

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Despite the mentioned £28k starting salary 20% leave in the first year. "

So you pay all those uni fees over 4 years I'm guessing, start doing the job you've trained for only to walk away?

Where did you get those figures from as I'd love to go and have a look into this myself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Blaming the teachers when we know it’s the wasteful corrupt Tories, continuing their VIP lane contracts even today.

I support all working strikers in every industry.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The strikes are four days maximum, it's not going to have a huge impact on the kids education. Lockdown proved that virtual learning was possible so for secondary students especially, they'll cope. As much as it's a pain and a bit of a work around, I support the strikes. Our school system needs an overhaul, there needs to be more funding for resources, more help for senco department's, TAs etc. One of my children's schools is always asking the parents for money. Every week there is a "fundraising effort" of some kind that costs us money. We do it so the kids don't miss out but it shouldn't be needed to that degree.

Pxx"

So why fines for parents taking their child out of school? Surely it won't have a huge impact?

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Pxx"

But the teachers that run the online classes are striking, so that is not a possibility. They will miss four days of school. At gcse level I'd say that's pretty important

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training?

It evens itself out I think more than fairly "

Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday.

Working 20-25 hours extra during term time equates to 800-1000 extra hours or an extra 22-25 weeks work per year. I don't know anyone who would do that amount of additional unpaid work per year and I'm sure you wouldn't. This doesn't include the work done during holidays, which you implied they shouldn't be paid for.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training?

It evens itself out I think more than fairly

Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday.

Many of them go on holiday during holiday times

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training?

It evens itself out I think more than fairly

Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday.

Many of them go on holiday during holiday times "

You can have a holiday too when they go on strike.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pxx

So why fines for parents taking their child out of school? Surely it won't have a huge impact? "

I didn't say I agreed with the fines. I don't personally but it's a different conversation. The fines are also issued by the council not the schools.

Pxx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Pxx

But the teachers that run the online classes are striking, so that is not a possibility. They will miss four days of school. At gcse level I'd say that's pretty important "

I get that, I meant more that work can be set online for children to do. As for GCSE students, maybe it can be used as study/revision time instead of taking that out of their lesson time. I don't know if study leave is still a thing, it was when I was that age but that was a long time ago. Not all teachers will strike either so hopefully the ones with upcoming exams will be given priority with the teachers that are still working. I don't know how it'll work, I'm not a teacher and all schools will organise things differently depending on staffing numbers etc but there are ways around it.

Pxx

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Is it fair then to not pay them in school holiday time unless the teacher is working at home marking books or in school on teacher training?

It evens itself out I think more than fairly

Many teacher do work during the holidays and weekends. Going by your arguement you wouldn't be paid when you are off on holiday.

Many of them go on holiday during holiday times

You can have a holiday too when they go on strike. "

Ahhh gee thanks

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it.

Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups."

Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term.

Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them).

For example, back in the 60's, Ford employed a number of women at Dagenham to produce interiors. They went on strike for equal pay - something I'm sure we'd all agree they thoroughly deserved - and they got it. Ford later outsourced interior production and all those women lost their jobs

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By *asycouple1971Couple
over a year ago

midlands

Glad they strike.

Get rid of this Govt.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work."

You don't just go straight from undergraduate study into teaching. You have to do additional postgraduate training for at least one year to acquire a PGCE or PGDE and then another year (once qualified) to achieve your QTS.

The strikes are not wholly about the amount teachers earn. It's about the fact that the last pay offer of 5% was not funded by the Govt and so schools had to pay it out of existing budgets. At the same time, fuel bills went through the roof. Schools cannot afford this and are cutting things all over the place to compensate. They are cutting subjects like art and music (which are deemed non essential), getting rid of valuable support staff (which increases already high workloads for teachers even more) and stopping enrichment activities like trips and visits, which impacts the quality of the educational experience for students.

The starting salary is pretty decent BUT the workload for an NQT is absolutely bonkers and so they work a LOT more than the contracted hours, which means actually, their hourly rate is probably very low indeed. Workload overall is getting ridiculous for all teachers which is another facet of the decision to strike.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Also please remember not all teachers work in a conventional primary or secondary school. I work in an international education provider and we do NOT have half terms or long holiday periods. Staff get 30 days annual leave, plus Bank Hols and can only take this leave at periods when students are on their holidays (Christmas, Easter and summer). This is pretty similar to most other industries.

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By *usie pTV/TS
over a year ago

taunton

They got a career and a good wage like a lot of others, its time to appreciate what they have got and get their heads down, the country does not have the money to pay more at the moment. We all need to make the country more prosperous and collect more tax from the greedy swine's. Too much time is being wasted pontificating on web sites.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work.

Did you not see the post below I made the one below you quoted me on?

I made out it was like 4 or 5 years at uni.

Your the first person to educate myself and others on the exact reason they are striking and Thank You as I didn't know what they ment by 'working conditions' but I do now you have pointed it out.

Education needs more money, extra investment. That shouldn't go on wages but I should free money up for wages

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work.

Did you not see the post below I made the one below you quoted me on?

I made out it was like 4 or 5 years at uni.

Your the first person to educate myself and others on the exact reason they are striking and Thank You as I didn't know what they ment by 'working conditions' but I do now you have pointed it out.

Education needs more money, extra investment. That shouldn't go on wages but I should free money up for wages

Sorry I hadn't scrolled further down before responding to you, no.

Glad to have been of help about the conditions bit. It is all explained on the NEU website as to the reasons for striking but conditions and workload are the leading reason to be honest.

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By *idewillyMan
over a year ago

portsmouth

Lets all clap nhs the teachers and everyone else that needs a pay rise while governments take the p at the public's expense... its-like 1980s again bring out laws to stop people trying to put out their voice before long you wont have a voice

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By *host63Man
over a year ago

Bedfont Feltham

"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes.

30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed

People would not strike if they were better paid and treated.

A close friend who was a highly specialised nurse gave up her post for a job lecturing at a lower rate because she was so overworked and undervalued

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By *cottish guy 555Man
over a year ago

London

"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !"

It's not the teachers that fine you, it's the government. Also, teachers worked all through covid. Even when schools were supposedly shut they weren't.

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it.

Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups.

Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term.

Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them).

So.. because some strikes/protests don't work out for those involved (nevermind that there are plenty of examples with more positive outcomes), the answer is lay down and take what you're given and be grateful about it no matter what out of fear of potential employer and/or government retaliation. No one should ever band together for better conditions and make a public showing of it. Got it.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it.

Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups.

Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term.

Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them).

They didn't say that, you did.

What they said I think is along the lines of, strike if you like but accept the consequences

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"You know there's something wrong with our society when people think £28k/year (gross) is a decent salary."

Could not agree more, it's really sad.

What's sadder is that instead of fighting for everyone to get paid more they're told to not complain because they earn more than someone else.

Awful

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Another issue in teaching is recruitment and retention. Something like 1 in 6 NQTs leave the profession within the first 5 years and we have missed recruitment targets for training new teachers every year for as long as I can remember. This year, only 17% of the targeted Physics trainees were recruited and I will predict that the vast majority of those will quit within the first few years to go and earn £50k plus in industry.

Many key subjects - all sciences; maths; technology and languages - we have shortages of teachers in these areas and secondary schools are therefore deploying non specialists. I'm sure you'd all be pleased to find out your child's GCSE Maths teacher is not qualified to teach Maths or that Physics A level is being taught by a biologist? This all has a massive detrimental impact on outcomes for students, which is what teachers are ultimately concerned about.

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it.

Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups.

Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term.

Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them).

They didn't say that, you did.

What they said I think is along the lines of, strike if you like but accept the consequences "

I obviously extrapolated a bit based on making an argument against strike action using a few cheery picked examples

I'd be surprised if anyone didn't accept the consequences of their actions

Striking is a very serious business and people generally don't take it lightly, hence the voting turnout rate among other things.

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By *heBlowinsCouple
over a year ago

West Cork

"What's sadder is that instead of fighting for everyone to get paid more they're told to not complain because they earn more than someone else."

This is something I've never understood nor ever will.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"What's sadder is that instead of fighting for everyone to get paid more they're told to not complain because they earn more than someone else.

This is something I've never understood nor ever will."

Yeah I'm not sure "be thankful you're earning nowhere nearvenough to buy or rent a home, you could be earning minimum wage in a supermarket, claiming universal credit (because supermarkets need huge profits and can't afford to pay more) and still need to use a foodbank" is a logic I'll ever understand.

Weirdly usually comes from those earning more than the strikers in the public sector

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By *erry bull1Man
over a year ago

doncaster

A lot of lorry drivers aren’t on 28k a year

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"A lot of lorry drivers aren’t on 28k a year "

Train as a teacher then, I'm sure you'll enjoy it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Children have already lost out massively during lockdowns. One of the teachers at my sons school drives a Jag F-pace with a personalised plate, so I hardly think they're on the breadline.

I strongly disagree with strike action. If they're so unhappy, there are better ways of dealing with it.

Perhaps there are other ways but not necessarily better. Striking, protesting, and public unrest have a long storied history of creating better conditions for otherwise disenfranchised groups.

Striking only achieves short term gains but leads to tougher outcomes in the long term.

Just look at London dock workers (there aren't any anymore), the British car industry (completely destroyed by industrial action), the miners (a lot of us remember what happened to them).

They didn't say that, you did.

What they said I think is along the lines of, strike if you like but accept the consequences "

Exactly.

About 30 years ago, there was a bus drivers dispute in a not-so-far-away-from-me city where I used to work. The management made it clear that any driver that went on strike would find themselves unemployed.

Essentially, they weren't denying their employees the right to withdraw their labour, just that if they did, it would be permanent.

Let's look at the whole employer / employee relationship from a slightly different perspective.

When you go for that job interview, you hope to impress your interviewers enough that they offer you the job.

When given the job, you sign a contract of employment - agreeing to the level of pay, hours, working conditions and so on.

In return, you do the job you have been hired to do.

NOBODY is guaranteed a pay rise in line with inflation.

I worked in the private sector - before going self-employed.

At interview for my last employer, given the industry, I was informed that salary reviews were conducted twice a year.

In 9 years, I got a total of 2 pay rises.

Despite working hard and taking on more responsibilitities and even managing a department.

Note the language. Salary REVIEW.

My housing costs were going up, my commute was getting more expensive, so effectively, each year, I suffered a pay cut - in real terms.

They lost a lot of good people because instead of rewarding hard work, we got fobbed off with excuses.

It was 15 years ago when I left

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

^^^Its not all about pay!

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By *erry bull1Man
over a year ago

doncaster

"A lot of lorry drivers aren’t on 28k a year

Train as a teacher then, I'm sure you'll enjoy it. "
no thanks I retire in 11 month and looking forward to chilling

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"^^^Its not all about pay!"

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"^^^Its not all about pay!

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government"

I mean, we're on our third PM since the last general election so that's questionable...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"^^^Its not all about pay!

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government

I mean, we're on our third PM since the last general election so that's questionable..."

How?

We do not, and have never directly elected Prime Ministers in this country

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"^^^Its not all about pay!

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government"

I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

The Govt refusing to properly negotiate with unions is costing more than settling the disputes. E.g. from the rail dispute: https://www.theguardian.com/uk-news/2023/jan/18/rail-strikes-cost-uk-1bn-and-settling-would-have-been-cheaper-minister-admits

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hilarious we expect to have teachers be baby sitters, educators , therapists, referees , and expect them to do this for peanuts.

Before you want to slag off teachers. Look at what the Tories have done to this country in the past 13 years .

Teachers are abandoning their jobs in droves. For very good reasons.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"^^^Its not all about pay!

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government

I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening. "

Really?

So nothing to do with the fact that the RMT have been striking, and the CMU and ASLEF and the Nurses Union - and that some of those union leaders have been calling for a general strike?

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Hilarious we expect to have teachers be baby sitters, educators , therapists, referees , and expect them to do this for peanuts.

Before you want to slag off teachers. Look at what the Tories have done to this country in the past 13 years .

Teachers are abandoning their jobs in droves. For very good reasons.

Have you read through the thread?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Hilarious we expect to have teachers be baby sitters, educators , therapists, referees , and expect them to do this for peanuts.

Before you want to slag off teachers. Look at what the Tories have done to this country in the past 13 years .

Teachers are abandoning their jobs in droves. For very good reasons.

Have you read through the thread?"

Why would I read the complete thread ?

I was making a statement

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By *exy_HornyCouple
over a year ago

Leigh

If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed.

Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know very little about teaching, but these 2 statements from posts above confuse me a bit.

"Teachers work so much in their own time that it becomes ridiculous. On top of that some then need to buy resources themselves."

"This is a common argument by people who have no clue what teachers go through and how much extra time they work during supposed "off hours""

If teachers are working hours that they're not obliged to by contract, and are spending their own money on teaching resources, why not make this the starting point for "action". If teachers refuse to work these extra hours for no pay, and refuse to use their own finances to "buy resources" then surely the government at some stage will have to deal with this to keep up with whatever target standards are required?

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By *ilthyRacersCouple
over a year ago

Coventry

It should be remembered that teachers are not allowed to strike over school funding or anything else that can be viewed as making any public political statements…

The strike is not simply about pay.

It’s just being misrepresented as such in the media (same with the fact that the rail strikes are not simply about drivers pay - some aren’t even about drivers at all!!).

Teachers are leaving in droves and people need to think about why.

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By *olvesfunguyMan
over a year ago

WOLVERHAMPTON

Can we fine schools if they arent open for our kids? Like they do for term time holidays.

Surely, works both ways

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The three pilars of society are .health. education. Law.

Oure gov have decided to go with greed greed greed

Oure society is doomed so the top can get richer and richer

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Can we fine schools if they arent open for our kids? Like they do for term time holidays.

Surely, works both ways"

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"^^^Its not all about pay!

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government

I mean, we're on our third PM since the last general election so that's questionable...

How?

We do not, and have never directly elected Prime Ministers in this country"

No we don't but the election manifesto that Johnson presented has been ignored by not one but 2 subsequent Prime Ministers.

And Sunak is talking about repairing the damage previous government's have done as if he wasn't part of it and wasn't integral to thst damage.

If the multiple Prime Ministers have shown us anything it is that PM being forced out by their own party should force a general election

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"^^^Its not all about pay!

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government

I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening.

Really?

So nothing to do with the fact that the RMT have been striking, and the CMU and ASLEF and the Nurses Union - and that some of those union leaders have been calling for a general strike?

There are legitimate reasons for all these industries to strike. Obviously the state of the economy (which the Govt have responsibility to keep on an even keel), impacts all sectors.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed.

Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service."

Sadly, there are a lot of parents who are unable or unwilling to do what is required. Schools have a statutory duty to safeguard their students and for young people under 18, teachers are considered as being "in loco parentis". Essentially, we have responsibilities that we cannot shirk.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Hilarious we expect to have teachers be baby sitters, educators , therapists, referees , and expect them to do this for peanuts.

Before you want to slag off teachers. Look at what the Tories have done to this country in the past 13 years .

Teachers are abandoning their jobs in droves. For very good reasons.

Have you read through the thread?

Why would I read the complete thread ?

I was making a statement "

You havent even read my question

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By *olvesfunguyMan
over a year ago

WOLVERHAMPTON

"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed.

Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service.

But going on strike would be shirking responsibilities!

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed.

Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service.

But going on strike would be shirking responsibilities!"

Striking is a last resort. It is not entered into lightly.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed.

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

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By *aitonelMan
over a year ago

Travelling

Teachers! Don't strike. Just leave your job for a different one. Problem solved.

All the parents can then deal with that fall out of that.

Oh as impractical as it is, I would love to witness that within a vacuum. How parents think they could deal with all this if their babysitters... Sorry I mean teachers just simply didn't exist. Entitlement and under appreciation colliding.

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By *olvesfunguyMan
over a year ago

WOLVERHAMPTON

"I've had numerous people slate me for being a teacher. They all mention holidays, working 9-5, yeah right,excetra excetra. But when I say to them go and do the job they always say I couldn't do it or out up the the shite and abuse we get on daily basis and on many occasions they don't have the knowledge or basic qualifications needed.

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job."

I haven't said I'm not happy with my job. I'm not involved in these strikes as I don't work in a school.

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

It was those numerous people that castigated you, not people here. Another poster has added 'before you slag teachers off', I've not seen that here either.

What I've seen is loads are leaving in they're droves, of the new ones, 20% quit within the first year and the ones that still in work spend a lot of their spare time doing work and not getting paid for it - amongst other arguments.

I'm an LSA, I get paid pro rata, no sick pay, I want more money, who dosent. I've got a great view of the situation like I have of this thread.

The question asked was along the lines of should teachers strike? Not are they wankers?

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By *olvesfunguyMan
over a year ago

WOLVERHAMPTON

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job.

I haven't said I'm not happy with my job. I'm not involved in these strikes as I don't work in a school. "

But you said you were a teacher??

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By *assie101Woman
over a year ago

Kent

"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed.

Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service."

This is a good point and probably one of the main reasons for a strike.

As well as an educator the expectation now is that a teacher is a counsellor, social worker. Mental health nurse, an entertainer, a data manager as well as be able to differentiate for a range of abilities as very little SEN provision. Classes are bigger. Available staff are fewer.

Don't forget too that the graduate on 28K will be paying back their student loan inclusive of their teacher training for many years to come as they have to pay to become a teacher.

Pay is the last reason to strike.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

"Teachers! Don't strike. Just leave your job for a different one. Problem solved.

All the parents can then deal with that fall out of that.

How many parents during Lockdown were at their wits end trying to explain very basic things to their kids and openly saying so on SM, then in the same post saying they couldn't get through it without alcohol!

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By *assie101Woman
over a year ago

Kent

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job."

And many do which is part of the problem

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By *izzy RascallMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

"Teachers! Don't strike. Just leave your job for a different one. Problem solved.

All the parents can then deal with that fall out of that.

Children are in school for 38 weeks out of the 52. That's 3 months approx of being home, plus weekends.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Same way I got mine when they went on strike in the 80’s

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Everyone has the right to strike and so they should but people seem to forget that it's the private sector that pay for a strong public sector. With teachers, nurses, train drivers et al going on strike for more money, where do they think this cash is coming from?"

Police and the forces are not allowed to strike. But totally agree with the rest.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

I wouldnt castigate teachers, but you chose that career and what goes with it. If you are not happy go and look for another job.

I haven't said I'm not happy with my job. I'm not involved in these strikes as I don't work in a school.

But you said you were a teacher??"

Teachers don't all work in schools

FE colleges

Private training providers

Apprenticeship providers

Universities

Pupil Referral Units

Young Offenders Institutes

Prisons

Private schools/colleges (under different union rules)

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By *ost SockMan
over a year ago

West Wales and Cardiff

"I work in education. I deal with teachers every single day. I don’t know a single one who doesn’t put the needs of kids first. All of the schools and academies I have experience with are having major issues with recruitment, because frankly, it’s a thankless job where they feel completely helpless, and policy is leaning further and further into schools becoming responsible for pastoral care and little to no accountability for parents. And despite the sentiment I read everywhere about ‘amount of holidays they get,’ most have many additional responsibilities outside of teaching, and work a similar number of hours I used to in the private sector, for more than double what they get paid. It was a shock when I moved.

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully."

I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too.

Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am.

It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one.

Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully.

I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too.

Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am.

It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one.

Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it."

I got up at 02:00 the other day to send an email I'd intended to send at about 20:00, but when I'd logged on in the evening, so many other things needed firefighting that I forgot the email. I woke up at 02:00 and couldn't get back to sleep worrying about it, because it needed to be sent before 08:00.

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By *olvesfunguyMan
over a year ago

WOLVERHAMPTON

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully.

I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too.

Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am.

It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one.

Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it.

I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Got a lot of teachers in my family and friends group. All work incredibly hard way beyond the 9-3 term time so many seem to think they do. They wear many hats and provide resources out of their own pockets. I’ve never met a lazy teacher yet!

This govt has no respect or value for public servants or public services. But then they are tories and tories never have appreciated these services or employees, throughout their history they have said and shown this. They’d privatise the lot if they could get away with it and frankly I suspect a fair number of the current cabinet think any but the upper middle class aren’t worth education at all.

Divide and conquer is their main approach and it’s working very well on this thread, race to the bottom, pitch forkers against torch bearers, “look over here not at that” etc

Msm - do not be fooled who do you think owns and runs the mainstream media? It’s certainly not the working class!

Stop in fighting and acknowledge they’re screwing most of us over left right and centre and they need to be stopped.

Strikes are reminiscent of the 80’s as they are of all eras when tories were in govt because they do this every single time! Defund public services, remove workers rights, destroy ordinary peoples quality of life in hopes that the service and the people working in them will be vilified and not their govt for underfunding them and disservice to them.

Stop buying their nonsense and aim your ire where it belongs.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully.

I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too.

Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am.

It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one.

Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it.

I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job."

It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble.

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By *olvesfunguyMan
over a year ago

WOLVERHAMPTON

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully.

I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too.

Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am.

It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one.

Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it.

I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job.

It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble. "

Are you not teaching today?

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully.

I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too.

Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am.

It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one.

Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it.

I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job.

It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble.

Are you not teaching today?"

I am currently in bed in severe pain caused by my disability. I am therefore off work today. The green arrow will take you to a thread with more information if you really need to know.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

It'd be a good poll to see who gets support: teachers, rail, royal mail, nurses, highway or civil servants.

(I think that's all of them)

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

Barristers (they were at some point)

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

Bus drivers were on strike for Arriva in Merseyside. They achieved their demands after an all-out strike.

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By *eard and BoobsCouple
over a year ago

Portstewart

"Ultimately like all the public sector, 12 years of austerity has reached its inevitable culmination now that the cost of living crisis. This is a problem entirely of the tories own making.

The options are there. We don't all have to pay for it at all."

This - they won’t do any of the most obvious things as it would piss off their mates and former schools/universities and they’d lose a ton of support money it’s that simple.

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By *llblueMan
over a year ago

Irvine

Do strikes ever work?

Those at the top of the tree will hardly be affected. Joe public on the other hand suffer most, with cancelled operations,(nurses,doctors etc) unable to get to work (trains etc) and our kids not being educated(teachers).

Unions need a new strategy in my opinion.

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By *hGlobbitsMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

I support the teachers, nurses and railworkers 100%. They all provide an invaluable service that improves my life and that of those around me, and they deserve a basic level of income that reflects that.

Where's the outrage for the likes of Nadhim Zahawe and Michelle Mone, ripping off millions left and right with little to no pushback from the media and the public appear not to give a toss.

Tells you everything you need to know about who sets the narrative in this country.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"I support the teachers, nurses and railworkers 100%. They all provide an invaluable service that improves my life and that of those around me, and they deserve a basic level of income that reflects that.

Where's the outrage for the likes of Nadhim Zahawe and Michelle Mone, ripping off millions left and right with little to no pushback from the media and the public appear not to give a toss.

Tells you everything you need to know about who sets the narrative in this country."

Nadhim Zahawe should be facing a criminal investigation for his tax affairs

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

If you want to castigate teachers go and train for 5, years then come back and tell me it's easy.

I don't have a dig at the plumber who came to do some work for me, his hourly rate is more than mine. I don't have the skills or knowledge to do his job.

It was those numerous people that castigated you, not people here. Another poster has added 'before you slag teachers off', I've not seen that here either.

I'm an LSA, I get paid pro rata, no sick pay, I want more money, who dosent. I've got a great view of the situation like I have of this thread.

The question asked was along the lines of should teachers strike? Not are they wankers?

I didn't say you castigated me, I was making a general comment. Others were slating teachers. There was a comment about the car someone drives then one about not working during holidays. Granted not all teachers work during the holidays but they will during the week.

Being paid term-time is wrong and it's a way of councils reducing their wage bills.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Where's the outrage for the likes of Nadhim Zahawe and Michelle Mone, ripping off millions left and right with little to no pushback from the media and the public appear not to give a toss.

Tells you everything you need to know about who sets the narrative in this country."

We all deserve a basic level of income? Not everyone can strike though? X

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

If only there was an obvious solution that would put an immediate end to the strikes! But that would involve valuing teachers, so instead the government will play the victim and rely on dividing the country to secure some pity.

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

"Nadhim Zahawe should be facing a criminal investigation for his tax affairs "

At the very least!

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By *hGlobbitsMan
over a year ago

Liverpool

Where's the outrage for the likes of Nadhim Zahawe and Michelle Mone, ripping off millions left and right with little to no pushback from the media and the public appear not to give a toss.

Tells you everything you need to know about who sets the narrative in this country.

We all deserve a basic level of income? Not everyone can strike though? X"

I agree - we all do. And if you're a member of a union who hasnt had a proper pay rise in over a decade, there's nothing stopping you and yoyr colleagues raising the possibility of strike action with them.

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By *exy_HornyCouple
over a year ago

Leigh

"If only there was an obvious solution that would put an immediate end to the strikes! But that would involve valuing teachers, so instead the government will play the victim and rely on dividing the country to secure some pity."

There is.

Teachers and nurses aren't badly paid however they do provide an essential service so shouldn't really have to pay for training or parking at work.

If the state paid their student loans for every year they work full time in the state system that would go a long way towards easing the pain. They could also be given free parking or a free bus pass (whichever method of travel is appropriate).

Their jobs should also be de-stessed by improving other areas. So teachers teach and nurses nurse. Other disciplines such as social care should pull their weight.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

There is.

Teachers and nurses aren't badly paid however they do provide an essential service so shouldn't really have to pay for training or parking at work.

Their jobs should also be de-stessed by improving other areas. So teachers teach and nurses nurse. Other disciplines such as social care should pull their weight."

It's not that social care should pull its weight, more that like so many sectors it's underfunded, underpaid and under resouced.

Issues compounded that care work is a sector that has lost a lot of workers thanks to brexit

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By *os19Man
over a year ago

Edmonton

As someone that is a civil servant working in a jobcentre I have been out on strike before.The jobcentre has been able to function because a lot of my colleagues can’t afford to go out on strike.All that happens is interviews are rebooked , payments automatically sent out.If I go out on strike speaking selfishly speaking the only person I am hurting is myself I lose a days pay and it effects my pension. I probably won’t make my decision about whether to strike or not until a couple of days before the actual date of the strike.

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By *rispyDuckMan
over a year ago

Chinese Takeaway near you

They have the right to strike & should strike if they feel they need too. I think anyone who thinks otherwise has obviously never worked as a teacher, nurse or in a job you feel undervalued but expected to work miracles!

Ofcourse kids & patients might be affected but these staff have bills to pay & this is a result of them feeling unjustly treated

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work."

crap.

The beginning wage for a fully qualified teacher is £35,650

the salary rises with experience and position.

Top salary for a head teacher is £90,000

salary range is £35,650 - £90,000

Their pension on top of this is very lucrative as 25% of salary also goes into pension on top of earnings.

plus sick leave etc

This was discussed on Radio Scotland Kay Adams at 9am on 16th January

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By *olvesfunguyMan
over a year ago

WOLVERHAMPTON

If they vote to strike it’s absolutely their right to do so, probably about much more than just pay, and likely something they’ve considered carefully.

I used to work with teachers too, and this was pretty much my experience too.

Most days I’d come in to work at 8.15am to emails from teachers written at 11.30pm/midnight, weekend evenings etc. One used to email me regularly at 4.30am.

It wasn’t just that - it was clear that they were teachers, police officers, social workers all rolled into one.

Many of the journalists criticising them wouldn’t last a week doing it.

I am sure many people in private sector jobs, work out of hours. I know I do, it goes with the job.

It's constant, all the time and seems to be expected rather than something that happens infrequently. That's the quibble.

Are you not teaching today?

I am currently in bed in severe pain caused by my disability. I am therefore off work today. The green arrow will take you to a thread with more information if you really need to know. "

Sorry, wasnt prying and dont need to know more. Lucky teachers get good sick pay though. Not everyone does.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work.

crap.

The beginning wage for a fully qualified teacher is £35,650

the salary rises with experience and position.

Top salary for a head teacher is £90,000

salary range is £35,650 - £90,000

Their pension on top of this is very lucrative as 25% of salary also goes into pension on top of earnings.

plus sick leave etc

This was discussed on Radio Scotland Kay Adams at 9am on 16th January "

The starting salary is NOT £35k.

M1 is £28,000. Top of the main payscale is £38,810.

Bottom range for Headteachers is £47,735 - £63,508.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work.

crap.

The beginning wage for a fully qualified teacher is £35,650

the salary rises with experience and position.

Top salary for a head teacher is £90,000

salary range is £35,650 - £90,000

Their pension on top of this is very lucrative as 25% of salary also goes into pension on top of earnings.

plus sick leave etc

This was discussed on Radio Scotland Kay Adams at 9am on 16th January

The starting salary is NOT £35k.

M1 is £28,000. Top of the main payscale is £38,810.

Bottom range for Headteachers is £47,735 - £63,508.

I don't know anyone that pays 25% in to their salary. All pensions, private and public sectors, are topped up by contributions from their employer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I won't pretend to know all the facts, so feel free to correct me on anything.

Isn't it an independent review board that decides wages? Not the govt? It's the union leaders and govt that lobby these review boards to try and get what they feel they deserve?

Could be why neither side speaks out against these review boards in fear of reprisal...

I fully support the strikes btw - we all learned how much we rely on these essential workers.

How many parents are delighted when September rolls around and they get to send their kids back to school after just a few weeks? I will be one of those parents come September. My mum was one of those parents.

Rhod Gilbert (legend - wishing him all my love right now) sheds a little light on what primary teachers, care workers and some other under valued workers do day to day. Worth a watch IMO.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I won't pretend to know all the facts, so feel free to correct me on anything.

Isn't it an independent review board that decides wages? Not the govt? It's the union leaders and govt that lobby these review boards to try and get what they feel they deserve?

Could be why neither side speaks out against these review boards in fear of reprisal...

I fully support the strikes btw - we all learned how much we rely on these essential workers.

Rhod Gilbert (legend - wishing him all my love right now) sheds a little light on what primary teachers, care workers and some other under valued workers do day to day. Worth a watch IMO."

Yes the STRB make pay recommendations, but it's a recommendation, not a something the Govt have to agree. The review board last made a recommendation before the cost of living started to go bananas AND the most recent pay award of 5% was unfunded. What that means is that schools had to use existing budgets to pay 5% increases to staff. At the same time, fuel prices went skywards and it was the start of the winter term. The strikes are not purely about pay itself, but a myriad other issues around conditions and working practices but also to try and stop future pay awards being unfunded. School budgets simply cannot stretch to pay for all these things.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

A quick Google told me YES

That's not bad for a young 20 year old just out of uni.

Perhaps if unis were not so expensive more people could train to be a teacher.

I don't know any teachers out of work."

Probably because lots have left the profession

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"28k sounds great for a 9-5 but that’s not the reality is it…

Teaching, like many other roles, is a thankless job. Teachers could “quiet quit” instead of strike but then we’ll see how shit the education system can get! "

This all over

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"I understand the right to strike, but I feel sorry for Joe public who have to pay for those strikes.

30,000 cancelled planned operations on the last nurse strike is sad news Indeed

Yes. I also feel sorry for the joe, they also interviewed parents and they arent happy about it, as they have to take time of work, yes, it is sad times too for the nhs as their patients have to wait for their operations."

They are also "joe public"

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Well the Tory solution is to ban striking altogether - and further under a bill currently going through parliament even thinking about or planning a “potentially disruptive protest” could be criminalised. Let’s hope the Lords put a stop to such outrageous and draconian measures.

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

"I won't pretend to know all the facts, so feel free to correct me on anything.

Isn't it an independent review board that decides wages? Not the govt? It's the union leaders and govt that lobby these review boards to try and get what they feel they deserve?

Could be why neither side speaks out against these review boards in fear of reprisal...

I fully support the strikes btw - we all learned how much we rely on these essential workers.

Rhod Gilbert (legend - wishing him all my love right now) sheds a little light on what primary teachers, care workers and some other under valued workers do day to day. Worth a watch IMO."

If you believe they’re genuinely independent I’ve a bridge for sale!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"Do they start on £28k? I read that yesterday but don't believe everything I read.

Mrs here was a teacher in the midlands.. starting salary was 19k in 2006.

Adjust for inflation because salaries notoriously match inflation and you have...

19k

It's £28k according to Google. I'm an LSA on £14k, Agency"

That was raised by the Gov in 2022, the starting salary was much lower before. It is to attract and try and keep teachers

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

If you don't like the job you do or unsatisfied with the conditions then don't do it. "

Does that apply to every industry that is going on strike at the moment? If everyone leaves who will do those jobs?

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By *ampWithABrainWoman
over a year ago

Glasgow

If you don't like the job you do or unsatisfied with the conditions then don't do it.

Does that apply to every industry that is going on strike at the moment? If everyone leaves who will do those jobs?"

Exactly! The people striking were classed essential workers during Covid - how quickly was that forgotten!

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"If they have the right to strike over pay, then i should have the right to take my kid out of school on holidays in term time. My kid can go on strike over the cost of a holiday !

But.. you do have the right to take your child out of school

Without a fine for a holiday ?"

If your child has a normally good attendance some schools use their discretion and let parents remove them for a holiday

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I know it's not all about pay/funding, which is why I suggested a look at the Rhod Gilbert thing. But I appreciate the clarity on the review boards

And i also started that I don't know all the facts, and welcomed anyone to correct me - hence the thanks ^^^

There was no need to get arsey....

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By *osaint1971Couple
over a year ago

Near Taunton

Anyone who thinks teaching is a cushy number then I have a question.

Why haven't you trained to be a teacher? The job is open to all.

There's a huge waiting list to be a tube driver, salary £60k...there are thousands of unfilled teaching posts...

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By *ove2pleaseseukMan
over a year ago

Hastings

Let them all government have done is cut pay in real terms more is the question where will the money come from?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"^^^Its not all about pay!

No. All these strikes are politically motivated by the union bosses colluding together in an attempt to overthrow our democratically elected government

I don't think that's the case. The situation in teaching re: school funding, staff recruitment and retention and workload is completely unsustainable. That's why the strikes are happening.

Really?

So nothing to do with the fact that the RMT have been striking, and the CMU and ASLEF and the Nurses Union - and that some of those union leaders have been calling for a general strike?

No. Mainly as people who work in these jobs have their own mind and have voted

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By *ab FunstersCouple
over a year ago

Midlands

"If teachers concentrated on actually teaching not arsing about doing the parents' jobs then they would do fewer hours and be less stressed.

Schools are places for learning, they are not a childminding service."

Sadly many parents, not all, treat it exactly like a childminder.

We have also become, social care,behaviour specialists when parents cannot effectively parent,in addition to educators. We are also safeguarding, first aid, mentors,careers advisors..the list goes on. I am not a teacher,I'm a head of year. My pay is no where near £28k..i could earn more on the checkout at Tesco's.

I and other's like me (support staff) are vastly underpaid for the work we do, but, we do it because we want to help the students...just like nurses who go above and beyond fir their patients.

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