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 . We're stupid or wilfully want it to deliver a poor service. Blame the government and for voting for them.
Obviously, leaving the EU caused significant further reductions to staff levels. Again our fault.
It will take the right strategic decisions to want to improve it. Years of staff education to get staffing levels improved, before we get to see things at an appropriate standard. We have to get our politicians to be behind this though. Currently, many countries face struggles to get staff, so the major way to significantly boost employment levels is to train and remunerate health staff appropriately, from now | |||
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"Ok what about thoughts of medical school placements? Should we open more and to train more doctors? Should we re-introduce the bursaries for these people? " This is a complex topic, with issues of doctor retention, part-time working and early retirement. It raises the question whether Med Schools are vetting applicants adequately in the first place. Some Med Schools are moving to graduate entry which might improve the situation. | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone " ............................ You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided. So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study. Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that. Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that. | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone ............................ You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided. So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study. Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that. Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that." Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country. Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone " What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? " Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it" Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022 | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022" Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone ............................ You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided. So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study. Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that. Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that. Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country. Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist" The NHS treats pretty much anybody according to clinical need, whether they can show entitlement or not. Laudable you might say, but as an ex-pat I can confirm you won't get past hospital reception in any other country in the world without insurance or credit card. | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone ............................ You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided. So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study. Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that. Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that. Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country. Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist The NHS treats pretty much anybody according to clinical need, whether they can show entitlement or not. Laudable you might say, but as an ex-pat I can confirm you won't get past hospital reception in any other country in the world without insurance or credit card. " My point exactly. We cannot afford this,charging would mean more resources for the NHS | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022 Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed" First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then | |||
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"Just imagine how much trouble they'd be in without the £350million a week post brexit bonanza... " Yes! Thank fuck for that! If, for example, that had been an outright lie we ‘d be in real trouble now! Sigh….. | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone ............................ You raise a good point, particularly around the ageing population, but much of what you say is irrelevant or misguided. So 10 million in England and Wales were born overseas, what does that prove without understanding the demographic? The significant numbers of foreigners here are of working age, are fit & healthy and are here to work or study. Conversely the 'indigenous' (whatever that means) population is getting older and not procreating at a rate that will sustain the ageing population in the future, in terms of tax revenues, social/health care and general infrastructure, we're already seeing the consequences of that. Many migrants come here to work in health care at all levels, from hospital cleaners, home carers, nurses and doctors, without them the NHS would have collapsed years ago, even Enoch Powell recognised that. Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country. Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist The NHS treats pretty much anybody according to clinical need, whether they can show entitlement or not. Laudable you might say, but as an ex-pat I can confirm you won't get past hospital reception in any other country in the world without insurance or credit card. " So say if someone who is brought in to hospital who may well be having a heart attack.. should the hospital turn them away because they are foreigners in this country? | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022 Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then" You said 'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.' Then you say it has been completed. I mean, I only live here and completed it. | |||
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"Every time I see a thread about the NHS… it’s blame the foreigners lol" Every time I see a thread about the NHS I know an apologist will pop up saying it's not the number of foreigners overwhelming all our public services. After all we have the infrastructure to support nearly 20 million extra people....oh,wait a minute | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022 Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then You said 'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.' Then you say it has been completed. I mean, I only live here and completed it. " You filled in a form - this year.It has not been compiled and no results whatsoever so no,it has not been completed.England and Wales are using their census information to plan public spending whereas Sturgeon is just raising taxes based on what? | |||
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" Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country. Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist" ................................. For starters, no we're not all 'net takers' over a lifetime. Secondly, the vast majority people coming here are doing us a favour, are generally of working age with a range of skills. Health tourism does exist, of course it does. It can probably be easily addressed, however the impact it would have on NHS finances compared to the whole would be negligibleso not fix the problem I believe you're highlighting. Incidentally nobody mentioned race, it's an unnecessary distraction, so planting the racism seed is a divisive trick, there are more relevant areas to point our grubby fingers at. | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022 Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then You said 'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.' Then you say it has been completed. I mean, I only live here and completed it. You filled in a form - this year.It has not been compiled and no results whatsoever so no,it has not been completed.England and Wales are using their census information to plan public spending whereas Sturgeon is just raising taxes based on what?" Perhaps be more accurate in how you express yourself and then confusion may be avoided?  | |||
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" Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country. Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist ................................. For starters, no we're not all 'net takers' over a lifetime. Secondly, the vast majority people coming here are doing us a favour, are generally of working age with a range of skills. Health tourism does exist, of course it does. It can probably be easily addressed, however the impact it would have on NHS finances compared to the whole would be negligibleso not fix the problem I believe you're highlighting. Incidentally nobody mentioned race, it's an unnecessary distraction, so planting the racism seed is a divisive trick, there are more relevant areas to point our grubby fingers at." Yes we are all nett takers (spelt nett btw, a net is used to catch fish).You think the £10k at most you contribute each year covers your basic cost? Not even close.Only around 20 million pay any tax at all,and every person in England costs £12k a year,in Scotland £18k a year.That is every single year,children and pensioners who contribute nothing and the 20 million "economically inactive " as the government terms it. | |||
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"we already pay insurance through NI contributions - it's a fallacy that NHS treatment is 'free'." It's free at point of service... it's also a fallacy NI pays for it - all gov income NI/VAT/income tax etc. go into one big treasury pot then get distributed from there.... | |||
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"The ONS states the 2021 census shows there were ten million people in England and Wales alone who were born overseas. Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement. Last year saw nett migration of 504,000 so 10.5 million plus Scotland around 12 million people. The NHS was not set up for today's world with an aging population and this huge influx.And,no these people do not contribute more than they take.We need to enforce health insurance or charging those from overseas.Every European country does this,and provides far better health care for everyone What do you mean Scotland hasn't done it? Sturgeon has refused to complete it's census.She blamed the pandemic but England and Wales managed it Was done June 30th 2021 and updated July 2022 Not true.The forms were completed by the people March 2022 but it has not yet been compiled, hence not completed First census results from Scotland expected June 2023 if then You said 'Scotland has not done it's census despite it being a legal requirement.' Then you say it has been completed. I mean, I only live here and completed it. You filled in a form - this year.It has not been compiled and no results whatsoever so no,it has not been completed.England and Wales are using their census information to plan public spending whereas Sturgeon is just raising taxes based on what? Perhaps be more accurate in how you express yourself and then confusion may be avoided? "Perhaps learn how to read and educate yourself. I know Wee Nickie has destroyed the Scottish education system (which was one of the best in the world) but even so | |||
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"To those already blaming the immigrants, there would literally be no NHS without immigrant workers" It's true! Aneurin Bevan was Welsh.  | |||
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"Actual cost of care is ridiculously expensive too - especially any operations. Insurance would be a nightmare. In America, quite often insurance is linked to s job so no job = no insurance = no healthcare. Not all ppl out of work choose to be so. " I agree. My point was the 12 million born overseas plus the health tourists should be charged or have insurance. They can afford to come here,live here,many send money home.Charge or insurance, no exceptions. | |||
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"It needs a government that wants it to work instead of selling off chunks of it. There needs to be a proper social care system so that the NHS doesn't have to deal with issues best dealt with elsewhere, such as more invested in care homes, so people can be discharged into a safe environment. " Probably true but what we really need is a government that knows how to make it work instead of using it as a political football. | |||
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" Your whole argument is irrelevant. I do not care what they do,where they are from,most do not work.We are all nett "takers" but my point is simple numbers.There are too many people, born here or not.The NHS needs extra funding, charge those not from here as they do in every other country. Plus let's not forget the health tourists.People come here just to use the NHS.I could tell you which countries are worst for this but cannot be doing with the howls of racist ................................. For starters, no we're not all 'net takers' over a lifetime. Secondly, the vast majority people coming here are doing us a favour, are generally of working age with a range of skills. Health tourism does exist, of course it does. It can probably be easily addressed, however the impact it would have on NHS finances compared to the whole would be negligibleso not fix the problem I believe you're highlighting. Incidentally nobody mentioned race, it's an unnecessary distraction, so planting the racism seed is a divisive trick, there are more relevant areas to point our grubby fingers at. Yes we are all nett takers (spelt nett btw, a net is used to catch fish).You think the £10k at most you contribute each year covers your basic cost? Not even close.Only around 20 million pay any tax at all,and every person in England costs £12k a year,in Scotland £18k a year.That is every single year,children and pensioners who contribute nothing and the 20 million "economically inactive " as the government terms it." ................................ You've no idea how much I contribute over the course of a year or more significantly over the course of my lifetime. Income tax, national insurance, capital gains, value added tax, stamp duty and a decent charge on my estate when I die. VAT is inescapable and disproportionately affects the lower paid as a percentage of their income. However your idiocy continues, taking a mean average doesn't help see the wood for the trees. Demand on the NHS is weighted towards older ages and this isn't resolved by stopping health tourism or immigration. | |||
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"Actual cost of care is ridiculously expensive too - especially any operations. Insurance would be a nightmare. In America, quite often insurance is linked to s job so no job = no insurance = no healthcare. Not all ppl out of work choose to be so. I agree. My point was the 12 million born overseas plus the health tourists should be charged or have insurance. They can afford to come here,live here,many send money home.Charge or insurance, no exceptions." Okay if they live here why should they not be entitled to healthcare? Health tourists and those taken ill are charged via insurance, it's just that being a civilised country we'd treat soneone rather than let them die for not having their insurance policy on them. Are you honestly suggesting that if someone is acutely unwell with a heart attack or stroke we should let them die? | |||
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"Actual cost of care is ridiculously expensive too - especially any operations. Insurance would be a nightmare. In America, quite often insurance is linked to s job so no job = no insurance = no healthcare. Not all ppl out of work choose to be so. I agree. My point was the 12 million born overseas plus the health tourists should be charged or have insurance. They can afford to come here,live here,many send money home.Charge or insurance, no exceptions. Okay if they live here why should they not be entitled to healthcare? Health tourists and those taken ill are charged via insurance, it's just that being a civilised country we'd treat soneone rather than let them die for not having their insurance policy on them. Are you honestly suggesting that if someone is acutely unwell with a heart attack or stroke we should let them die?" If I choose to live abroad I would be expected to have health insurance. France for example is around €1500 a year.I stayed with ex pats in France (and elsewhere) and they said it costs but the standard is so high it is worth it. See a GP same day and if needed in hospital the same day or next. As for emergency in this country everyone can use A&E without charge | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price. " Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think)." Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price. Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it" How fid the government 'create false jobs'? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price. Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it How fid the government 'create false jobs'?" Because they could ! I remember reading the job section in my local paper on several occasions and there would be numerous adverts for jobs within our local council. All had very obscure job descriptions and I remember thinking at the time "what the hell does that job entail" the answer? Nothing ! Jobs created for no reason or a job that someone else could have done!! Again, in the private company world people multi-task, in a government run organisation there's an employee for every role ! Waste of money !! | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? " All of them | |||
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"The NHS appears to be in crisis. I meet people every day who say I couldn’t get a GP appointment or there’s a 2 year waiting list for X, Y or Z. This really does make me sad; not just for the poor people who can’t get seen to and therefore do not get treatment, but also for the staff who are obviously under immense pressure. What do you think the solution should be? Do you think we should move everything to an hospital based care system so there’s GPs within hospitals and we close their surgeries? Do you think we should have some sort of insurance system like in the US? Do you think that there should be some sort of £20 ‘fee’ which covers all consultation and treatments? Do you think we should do nothing and just try to invest in it? Do you think it’s no longer fit for purpose? I would love to hear all your views! No hate, everyone’s view is more than welcome, simply curious on what people think some solutions could be? " I think you're right and it's been that way for many years. Ultimately it needs knocking down and start again.if there are bits that are working well.. Fine. Save them. We need compulsory insurance. We need to pay for consultations and treatments and many other thing we use. There of course needs to be a safety net for those who can't afford it. It needs to be removed from all political discussion. And a x party health body set up responsible for health and wellbeing. We also need to do basic things better admin and appts and communications and prescriptions. . . There is no excuse for not being able to do these basic things simply efficiently and effectively. Why does it take 5 working days to get a repeat prescription ffs. We need to stop playing with window dressing and start to address significant issues. And we need to make the nhs accountable for the poor service and negligence when it commits them.. Juts like any other organisation. We also need to reposition it entitely.we should not be greatful nor thankful for a service which we have almost all paid a load of tax into to be provided to us.. Its ours. Wr paid for it. Its our right and it needs to be and do better. And for those who work hard and are doing fantastic work in it. Well done. lots of people do great jobs and work hard. A friend of mine had his urgent cancer consultation cancelled today due to nurses strike and unable to rebook. He's on the edge as is. More delays may just kill him. Fingers crossed it doesn't. | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? " It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price. Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it How fid the government 'create false jobs'? Because they could ! I remember reading the job section in my local paper on several occasions and there would be numerous adverts for jobs within our local council. All had very obscure job descriptions and I remember thinking at the time "what the hell does that job entail" the answer? Nothing ! Jobs created for no reason or a job that someone else could have done!! Again, in the private company world people multi-task, in a government run organisation there's an employee for every role ! Waste of money !! " Si they weren't created by the government? And by false you mean you didn't think they were valid? Ao in short the government didn't create false jobs then? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water? " So you can't name a single privatised industry thst has benefited the public, but the NHS should be privatised? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them " So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water? So you can't name a single privatised industry thst has benefited the public, but the NHS should be privatised?" BT are a thriving private company that came out of the nationalised GPO. Remember waiting 3 months just to get a handset, available in any colour provided it's grey? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that?" Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think).Economies of scale have never been applied. It never uses its buying power,appears to always pay top dollar. As for manning, just over half are clinically trained. That means nearly half are managers, admin, support staff etc. What other business supports it's frontline workers nearly one to one? A small taskforce visiting each trust and interviewing support staff,What do you do?Break down your working day.Most could not justify their jobs.Insist on management bringing in measurable cost savings not just demand more money.Review spending on equipment. Yes,medical equipment is needed and costs what it costs.Pens,paper,office equipment, cleaning materials etc can definitely be obtained cheaper but the trusts all have "preferred suppliers " which translates to highest price. Yep. They all need some advice from the private sector to get them heading in the right direction. When labour were in power many years ago (thank god) they were creating "false" jobs in the NHS and local councils I'm guessing to keep the unemployment numbers down. Would a private company have dead wood everywhere? Nope but the NHS appear to get away with it How fid the government 'create false jobs'? Because they could ! I remember reading the job section in my local paper on several occasions and there would be numerous adverts for jobs within our local council. All had very obscure job descriptions and I remember thinking at the time "what the hell does that job entail" the answer? Nothing ! Jobs created for no reason or a job that someone else could have done!! Again, in the private company world people multi-task, in a government run organisation there's an employee for every role ! Waste of money !! Si they weren't created by the government? And by false you mean you didn't think they were valid? Ao in short the government didn't create false jobs then?" The local authorities especially are "guided" by politicians further up the chain. My point is it wouldn't happen in a private company where every penny is accounted for and looked after. | |||
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"Swivel-eyed, frothing at the mouth raves about health tourism, are clearly missing the boat. Any savings will be as good as irrelevant, in the grand scheme of things. Look at the big picture, " And there is the problem with the NHS. No one cares,just throw money at it.Health tourism we know costs £2 billion a year but estimates say up to five times that in hidden health tourism.But it is "irrelevant " | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? It's a good question. And I don't think one size fits all.but I think some were and should be nationalised. And some should be in private hands. Energy? Rails? Water? So you can't name a single privatised industry thst has benefited the public, but the NHS should be privatised? BT are a thriving private company that came out of the nationalised GPO. Remember waiting 3 months just to get a handset, available in any colour provided it's grey?" In fairness given that BT was privatised in the days of not every house having a landline and now make most of their money from broadband and TV packages and most people use a mobile not a landline, their previous business model is obsolete. So yes the company is thriving but it doesn't really fit the answer of privatisation having benefitted the consumer when arguably it is global technological advances that have radically changed their sector thstvthe consumer has benefitted from. And they are far from being alone, every company rest comes out of privatisation seems to make huge profits, but thst doesn't mean the public benefitted | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine" Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?" Not an attack, an observation | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public?" Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way " Are yiu sure? You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them" So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way Are yiu sure? You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them" So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different?" Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? is what you asked but then you asked a different question. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? Two different questions,do keep up, with yourself at least | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way Are yiu sure? You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them" So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different? Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? is what you asked but then you asked a different question. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? Two different questions,do keep up, with yourself at least" And there is another So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different? | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? All of them So we are paying a fortune for utilities while they nake huge profits, how has that benefitted the public? We have sone of the most expensive yet inefficient public transport in the Western world, how dodgy privatisation improve that? Is your glass always half empty? Every comment, and I do mean every, of yours I read is negative. If you added anything constructive that would be fine.But you don't. Just slate,harass, whine Instead of a personal attack maybevwe could stick to the topic and answer the question posed and back up your claims that privatisation benefits the public in all cases. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? Btw, I never said any benefit the public and certainly not all of them. But don't let that get in the way Are yiu sure? You said "Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining" and when I asked which privatised industries benefitted the public you said "all of them" So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different? Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? is what you asked but then you asked a different question. So I'll ask again how did the privatisation of utilities and public transport benefit the public? Two different questions,do keep up, with yourself at least And there is another So privatisation has made everything worse in all sectors other than for shareholders, so howvwould privatising the NHS be any different?" Go on,ask just one.I will even allow you to cherry pick the best bits of the three,I am a generous man | |||
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"I suppose it would be instructive to look at how the best health care is provided and then try and take the bits of that that can be implemented here. I struggle to believe there are many 1st world countries that have health care and health kpis equivalent to ours. You struggle to believe?Every other 1st world country is better than ours. And equally it would be instructive to see how many countries are trying to copy our health care system and performance. " No country tries to copy us.Quite the reverse, they look at us and think madness | |||
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"I suppose it would be instructive to look at how the best health care is provided and then try and take the bits of that that can be implemented here. I struggle to believe there are many 1st world countries that have health care and health kpis equivalent to ours. You struggle to believe?Every other 1st world country is better than ours. And equally it would be instructive to see how many countries are trying to copy our health care system and performance. No country tries to copy us.Quite the reverse, they look at us and think madness " Yes , UK have one of the worse systems ! I don’t know what you do, I couldn’t use NHS myself , hospitals are dirty and very badly managed. The consultants come on some days to do NHS work but more and more of the good ones don't bother, their private practices are getting busy as more people switch to paid | |||
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"I suppose it would be instructive to look at how the best health care is provided and then try and take the bits of that that can be implemented here. I struggle to believe there are many 1st world countries that have health care and health kpis equivalent to ours. You struggle to believe?Every other 1st world country is better than ours. And equally it would be instructive to see how many countries are trying to copy our health care system and performance. No country tries to copy us.Quite the reverse, they look at us and think madness Yes , UK have one of the worse systems ! I don’t know what you do, I couldn’t use NHS myself , hospitals are dirty and very badly managed. The consultants come on some days to do NHS work but more and more of the good ones don't bother, their private practices are getting busy as more people switch to paid " But surely that is the point isn't it.? We say we love our treasured nhs but we value it so little we aren't prepared to pay anything like what it costs to provide decent health care. And yet we are perfectly happy to pay to get our car serviced and motd, put new tyres on when needed. I know the nhs has replaced the Royal family in our affections but just don't get what most people even want from it, let alone stand a half chance of delivering it. | |||
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"It's had massive real-terms cuts in investment for years, which obviously damages it. We've not planned investment in training of medical staff, including Doctors, for years too . We're stupid or wilfully want it to deliver a poor service. Blame the government and for voting for them.
Obviously, leaving the EU caused significant further reductions to staff levels. Again our fault.
It will take the right strategic decisions to want to improve it. Years of staff education to get staffing levels improved, before we get to see things at an appropriate standard. We have to get our politicians to be behind this though. Currently, many countries face struggles to get staff, so the major way to significantly boost employment levels is to train and remunerate health staff appropriately, from now "Well said. We also need to put an end to the brain drain that is making medical graduates not want to work in the NHS so they prefer to quit medicine or move to Australasia/elsewhere. | |||
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"The biggest problem with the NHS is in the first word - National. Nothing nationalised worked and the NHS is the only such organisation remaining (I think). Which previously nationalised services that are now on the private sector would you say have improved services most for the public? " All of them except water. | |||
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