Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to The Lounge |
| Jump to newest |  |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I disagree with needing ID as I posted to the first thread, but to clarify on the cost of ID. If you Google voter ID plans you should get a government link coming up detailing the plans. People will be able to apply for a free voter ID card from their local council. I don't think the plans have been finalised. Councils are not ready. They have written to the government asking them to delay implementing it as they won't be ready by the local elections in May. Also, you'll need to apply at least a week before an election, which screws over the more disorganised among us. " Will people using postal voting need photographic ID need to apply for a postal vote? If not then I just see the whole thing as a costly exercise that is completely unnecessary. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I disagree with needing ID as I posted to the first thread, but to clarify on the cost of ID. If you Google voter ID plans you should get a government link coming up detailing the plans. People will be able to apply for a free voter ID card from their local council. I don't think the plans have been finalised. Councils are not ready. They have written to the government asking them to delay implementing it as they won't be ready by the local elections in May. Also, you'll need to apply at least a week before an election, which screws over the more disorganised among us. Will people using postal voting need photographic ID need to apply for a postal vote? If not then I just see the whole thing as a costly exercise that is completely unnecessary. " Not a clue, but I agree, it's an expensive solution to an almost non existent problem | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Let me get in early to address the “It only costs [however much]!” argument that people keep making: Some people do not have [however much]. Might not sound like much to someone in your privileged position, but some people *do not have that money*. Any ID measure that the person has to pay for automatically excludes anyone who can’t afford it. If you honestly believe poor people shouldn’t be allowed to vote, just come out and say it. " What he said!75.50 is 3/4 of my weekly rent or half my monthly council tax or half my monthly food bill! Beyond my pocket x | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister. Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview. This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions. " No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year ***** After you apply Passport interviews After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity. If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online **** It’s not always necessary. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! " You hope! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister. Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview. This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions. No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year ***** After you apply Passport interviews After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity. If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online **** It’s not always necessary. " That is for people but have already had a passport if you look up on the government website it will very clearly tell you if you are applying for a passport for the 1st time and you are UK citizen You are definitely going to have to have a face-to-face interview you can argue with me all you like but it's absolutely true. There are no exceptions to this except during the pandemic. Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview. From the UK government Website! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I disagree with needing ID as I posted to the first thread, but to clarify on the cost of ID. If you Google voter ID plans you should get a government link coming up detailing the plans. People will be able to apply for a free voter ID card from their local council. I don't think the plans have been finalised. Councils are not ready. They have written to the government asking them to delay implementing it as they won't be ready by the local elections in May. Also, you'll need to apply at least a week before an election, which screws over the more disorganised among us. " But with nothibg in place it's an excellent way to try and avoid or at least limit the tories being decimated in the council elections | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! " Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory. Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it. Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing. Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it. Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion. Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people... Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! " There will be options but there will be obstacles designed to make people give up. And those people will be the younger and poorer who do not normally carry photo ID and are much less likely to vote tory. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory. Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it. Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing. Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it. Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion. Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people... Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh?" One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory. Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it. Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing. Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it. Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion. Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people... Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh? One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks." Unfortunately many don't see the everyday barriers involved for some people just to simply do something they take for granted like vote. I got married earlier this year and my passport is currently in my maiden name however I am registered to vote in my married name. If photo identification is required I am either going to have to pay £75 to renew my passport 7 years early or not vote. I shouldn't have to do either. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory. Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it. Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing. Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it. Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion. Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people... Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh? One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks. Unfortunately many don't see the everyday barriers involved for some people just to simply do something they take for granted like vote. I got married earlier this year and my passport is currently in my maiden name however I am registered to vote in my married name. If photo identification is required I am either going to have to pay £75 to renew my passport 7 years early or not vote. I shouldn't have to do either. " Ajd in theory a marriage certificate and passport should suffice, bit it possibly won't, and potentially it will be on the whim of the staff at the polling station who face a completely unenviable task | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"But, in spite of the issues and costs of (some) run of the mill ID, there will be options. People are not going to be discriminated against! Of course they are. The very act is discriminatory. Requiring people to pay for ID discriminates against people who can't afford it. Requiring people to jump through hoops to get some form of free ID discriminates against people who can't jump through those hoops – there are plenty of neurodiverse people out there who are barely getting through one day at a time as it is, and wouldn't be able to cope with Just One More Thing. Requiring people to vote in person discriminates against everyone who can't do so – all the people too ill or disabled to make it, or simply those in jobs who won't allow them to take time off to do it. Seriously. Any measure at all designed to make it more difficult to vote needs to be treated with the very deepest suspicion. Who does introducing voter ID discriminate against? Poor people, disabled people, young people... Why might a Tory government want to stop those specific demographics voting, eh? One answer is because this government is a bunch of crooks. Unfortunately many don't see the everyday barriers involved for some people just to simply do something they take for granted like vote. I got married earlier this year and my passport is currently in my maiden name however I am registered to vote in my married name. If photo identification is required I am either going to have to pay £75 to renew my passport 7 years early or not vote. I shouldn't have to do either. Ajd in theory a marriage certificate and passport should suffice, bit it possibly won't, and potentially it will be on the whim of the staff at the polling station who face a completely unenviable task" Well I hope so but I'm not convinced. It was a huge story locally in the last election that a lady was turned away from the polling station with her Assistance dog as dogs were not allowed in the polling station and had to be tied up outside. If polling staff are not aware of a law that has been in place for decades about assistance dogs I don't have much faith in them knowing a very new law. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ?" Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate. "Wow! You really don't have a clue even though people have tried to explain it to you and others. It is not a minor inconvenience to pay for identification that you otherwise don't need, Some people simply will not be able to afford to vote and if you think that's acceptable then You need to give your head a wobble. You have basically just confirmed what someone have believe the poor don't deserve to vote. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate. "Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"ID based Voting, I like that there’s a way to limit fraud. That citizens have to pay anything above £10 to have that right/have that ID I think is wrong, esp in todays society with many impacted by cost of living. Worried about privacy? I’m on a Chinese built phone on a foreign owned network. Big brother knows all it wants to already, the right to privacy is academic at this stage . Maybe the Tinfoil hat brigade were right all along! "What voter fraud though? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate. "Wow! U really are clueless!!  x | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require. "Ye only 46 of the 47 European countries surveyed by the Crime Prevention Research Center require photo ID. Guess who the odd one out is? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate. "Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc. "Genuine question, how would compulsory ID make me safer? I asked someone else this on the original thread and never got a response? I can see benefits to it, but not how it makes an individual safer | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require.
Ye only 46 of the 47 European countries surveyed by the Crime Prevention Research Center require photo ID. Guess who the odd one out is?"I think you need to do a little bit more research because they don't need photo identification there are ways round it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? " You show ID the supermarket? I certainly don't. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? " I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x " This is what people are not understanding and those who say it's a minor inconvenience that can be got round are very clueless. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x This is what people are not understanding and those who say it's a minor inconvenience that can be got round are very clueless. " They really are! X | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc. "It shouldn't cost any individual anything to be able to vote ever! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I do, yes. We need to provide ID for a lot of other things in life, and for those who don't already have a photo id, a free photo id will be available. We need to stop voting fraud which has become a growing problem" What voter fraud? This question has been asked several times but nobody seems to be able to answer. Where have you seen that free photo ID will be available? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
It shouldn't cost any individual anything to be able to vote ever! "My mind is focused more on having an ID for multiple reasons benefiting society, rather than voting issue alone. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
It shouldn't cost any individual anything to be able to vote ever!
My mind is focused more on having an ID for multiple reasons benefiting society, rather than voting issue alone.
"Hoe will mandatory ID benefit society? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I do, yes. We need to provide ID for a lot of other things in life, and for those who don't already have a photo id, a free photo id will be available. We need to stop voting fraud which has become a growing problem" How are you quantifying 'a growing problem'? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
Genuine question, how would compulsory ID make me safer?
I asked someone else this on the original thread and never got a response?
I can see benefits to it, but not how it makes an individual safer"You can be questioned by police on the stop if carrying was compulsory in the way I know it elsewhere; would eventually help with illegal immigration too I hope. Verify yourself and others identity in the most secure way - comparing the photo whilst collecting parcels, having appointments with local council. I had to show my ID entering club, signing a contract, showing up at police station or any formal establishment and so on. Yes it does make me feel safer. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening: *Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp. Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. " We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research". Patronising anyone won't convince them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Agreed. Having lived in countries with compulsory ID, I I see other benefits to safety and others which come with it. All the barriers mentioned can be resolved. Low cost application fee for those on low income etc.
Genuine question, how would compulsory ID make me safer?
I asked someone else this on the original thread and never got a response?
I can see benefits to it, but not how it makes an individual safer
You can be questioned by police on the stop if carrying was compulsory in the way I know it elsewhere; would eventually help with illegal immigration too I hope. Verify yourself and others identity in the most secure way - comparing the photo whilst collecting parcels, having appointments with local council. I had to show my ID entering club, signing a contract, showing up at police station or any formal establishment and so on. Yes it does make me feel safer. "Sorry but i fail to see how any of that makes me "safer". | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Having identification to vote is not the issue it's the fact it needs to be photo ID which actually very few countries require.
Ye only 46 of the 47 European countries surveyed by the Crime Prevention Research Center require photo ID. Guess who the odd one out is?"ignoring the source.... Do we have higher rates of voters fraud? Any evidence to show this helps reduce fraud? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry but i fail to see how any of that makes me "safer". " It makes ME feel safer. And people I know who still live back there. I find it strange how much trust is given here. Politely agree to disagree. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" compulsory ID cards are not what is being discussed here. Somebody asked you how it safer? " I am sure it falls within remit of subject. Scroll up^ | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I do, yes. We need to provide ID for a lot of other things in life, and for those who don't already have a photo id, a free photo id will be available. We need to stop voting fraud which has become a growing problem" Where can I get my free photo ID?? X | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening: *Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp. Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research". Patronising anyone won't convince them. " Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer. You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" compulsory ID cards are not what is being discussed here. Somebody asked you how it safer? I am sure it falls within remit of subject. Scroll up^ " Where has anybody other than you said anything about compulsory identification and the person you were agreeing with? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening: *Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp. Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research". Patronising anyone won't convince them. Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer. You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? " Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion. Have a good night. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening: *Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp. Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research". Patronising anyone won't convince them. Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer. You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion. Have a good night. " And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"At risk of repeating what may already have been said, there isnt anywhere near enough voter fraud to begin considering ID at polling stations. It’s just a thinky veiled attempt to disenfranchise certain voter groups " What voting groups? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. " I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening: *Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp. Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research". Patronising anyone won't convince them. Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer. You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion. Have a good night. And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims. " Lorna. I said I FELT SAFER. I don't need to provide evidence for feelings. Are you done? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. " How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The point most seemed to be missing is the conservatives claim voter fraud is on the rise which is why we need without any evidence. If that is the case then it would have been the conservatives that have benefited from this so called fraud over the last 12 years. This is about disenfranchising certain groups including those that do not have photographic ID. Ask yourselves why this is bringing brought in by the conservative government now. They have never called for this before and there is no evidence whatsoever to suggest there is any more fraud than there ever has been. " What groups? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening: *Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp. Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research". Patronising anyone won't convince them. Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer. You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion. Have a good night. And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims. Lorna. I said I FELT SAFER. I don't need to provide evidence for feelings. Are you done? " You asked why you felt safer, You answered somebody disagreed with you. Am I done doing what replying to a thread I'm sorry you don't like my answers but I stand by everything I've said. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? You show ID the supermarket? I certainly don't. " Yes! But i buy alcohol  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? " Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I'll say it again because people aren't listening: *Any* fee at all, no matter how low, will exclude some people from voting. Some people have *no* spare money. I don't understand why this seems to be such a difficult concept to grasp. Again: If you honestly think poor people shouldn't vote, say so. We are listening but disagreeing. It doesn't mean "we really have no clue" or "should go and do our research". Patronising anyone won't convince them. Nobody is patronising anyone people are asking questions that others are refusing to answer. You state it is safer in countries with ID cards but what evidence do you have for that? Sigh. I refuse to be tonight's dogs bone. Nicer subjects out there. Your tone in replies was patronising in my opinion. Have a good night. And there we have it! my tone cannot be red you cannot hear my voice so you have no idea of my tone. Yet again when asked for evidence it is refused and turned on the person asking questions and this happens regularly. You say there are nicer subjects yet you chose to comment on this one you just don't like it when people don't agree with you or ask you to provide Evidence for your claims. Lorna. I said I FELT SAFER. I don't need to provide evidence for feelings. Are you done? You asked why you felt safer, You answered somebody disagreed with you. Am I done doing what replying to a thread I'm sorry you don't like my answers but I stand by everything I've said. " Sure | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? I have no issue showing it if I had it which I don't I don't have passport or driving licence no photo ID at all x " Yes that is definitely a challenge | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? You show ID the supermarket? I certainly don't. Yes! But i buy alcohol "My gosh I haven't been asked for ID for alcohol for about 20 years. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"At risk of repeating what may already have been said, there isnt anywhere near enough voter fraud to begin considering ID at polling stations. It’s just a thinky veiled attempt to disenfranchise certain voter groups What voting groups? " There’s a wide selection, youre talking anything from new, young voters to those with a lack of basic income. I also noticed an earlier comment where you said you were amazed you could vote without proof of who you are, however, you still need a current address, to be on thr electoral register (of which you apply & consent to be on) & your polling card. Essentially the information you willingly hand over is enough go ensure that in a vast majority of cases the person voting is actually who they say they are | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I have no issue showing id... I show it in the supermarket, why not the voting booth? You show ID the supermarket? I certainly don't. Yes! But i buy alcohol
My gosh I haven't been asked for ID for alcohol for about 20 years. "I had to show it last week in m+s.. I always carry my driving license, but i wonder what have been the outcome if i didn't have it! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? " aren't there lists at pollong stations. If there were fraud you'd have people saying they couldn't vote as their name had been ticked off I guess one may guess who is vote agnostic. But there would be cases where someone gets it wrong. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. " Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. " Obviously because the correct person doesn't turn up. There are thousands on the electoral list who never vote. Those details are available to candidates and their reps and it's very easy without photo ID to fill those gaps. It happens all around the world and is well documented. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"At risk of repeating what may already have been said, there isnt anywhere near enough voter fraud to begin considering ID at polling stations. It’s just a thinky veiled attempt to disenfranchise certain voter groups What voting groups? There’s a wide selection, youre talking anything from new, young voters to those with a lack of basic income. I also noticed an earlier comment where you said you were amazed you could vote without proof of who you are, however, you still need a current address, to be on thr electoral register (of which you apply & consent to be on) & your polling card. Essentially the information you willingly hand over is enough go ensure that in a vast majority of cases the person voting is actually who they say they are" Ok, well if you need to bring your polling card then thats at least dome verification. My preference would still be to have ID accompanying that, but its better than nothing | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? " Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. " I think it is the postal vote or proxy vote in certain parts of the country, but i don't have any sources to quote ! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. " Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? " You don't 'just walk in' and vote. You should present your polling card, which you will only get if you are on the electoral roll,and they then strike your name off the list so the card can't be used more than once. Yes, without photo ID you could be someone else and potentially cast one vote. However, to say that there 'is no way of checking anything' is hyperbole. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? You don't 'just walk in' and vote. You should present your polling card, which you will only get if you are on the electoral roll,and they then strike your name off the list so the card can't be used more than once. Yes, without photo ID you could be someone else and potentially cast one vote. However, to say that there 'is no way of checking anything' is hyperbole." If you scroll up youll see i anknowledged the polling card bit from another poster, which i wasnt aware of initially. Regardless, why open up any potential for shenanigans when you could just make photo ID mandatory? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? " 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. I think it is the postal vote or proxy vote in certain parts of the country, but i don't have any sources to quote ! " But no ID will be required for postal voting that's what I can't get my head round because that is the only place where there is proven Fraud. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. " Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? " Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? " So what do you have that is a FREE PHOTO ID. Think of some how dose not drive and dose not go abroad. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister. Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview. This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions. No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year ***** After you apply Passport interviews After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity. If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online **** It’s not always necessary. " they don't always. My daughter got her first adult passport November this year.. she was not invited for an interview | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. " How much does a passport cost? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister. Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview. This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions. No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year ***** After you apply Passport interviews After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity. If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online **** It’s not always necessary. they don't always. My daughter got her first adult passport November this year.. she was not invited for an interview " Did she have a child passport?? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? " I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? " £75 Plus any other documents you may need like your birth certificate and that of both of your parents. If you have to go for an interview the travel costs so you could easily be looking at over at over £100. £34 For a provisional driving licence assuming you are entitled to one as many people are not. This is a lot of money if you are on a very low income. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168" Wow! Did you pay for it to be fast tracked because that's a lot of money. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? " I'm not trying to be. But the cost of fraud only bites when it's widescale. With FPTP the marginal fraudulent vote doesn't have the same cost. As has been covered, there typically a cost. And a not insignifiacant effort. Many will dismiss this, but for some it's a sizeable barrier. Even if the givenment provide a free option, some will struggle to access the frer service. Or know about Ppl with ID will still miss out on voting. You can't find your ID. You lose it just before the election. You forget to take it with you because you have worked late and now are going direct to work. Plus photo ID isn't that fail safe. I could probably get a fake drivers license easily enough. And the more ID you allow, the more it can pass as real. Again. Everyone is asking an effort to solve a problem yet to be established and is assuming their answer will help. I can be converted if there was evidence on both points. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? " ID is getting so hard My mother passed and the solicitors want 3 forms of ID 1. Passport or driving licence. 2. Proof of address. Had to be my name only. And not passport or driving license. 3. Proof of address utility bill. Bank on line, bills on line, it is getting harder when you have to do it. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168 Wow! Did you pay for it to be fast tracked because that's a lot of money. " Yes fast track and let them do it all had to renew In 4 weeks between jobs flying in to UK and flying back out in the end it took 10 Days Could track it on line. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? £75 Plus any other documents you may need like your birth certificate and that of both of your parents. If you have to go for an interview the travel costs so you could easily be looking at over at over £100. £34 For a provisional driving licence assuming you are entitled to one as many people are not. This is a lot of money if you are on a very low income. " Not to sound dismissive, but this is a one off cost, or at least once every 10 years or so. What about the citizen card, isnt that something like 15 pounds? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Citizen cards are £15" Except that is not included on the list. It's literally passport, Driving licence, OAP bus pass andbiometric immigration documents. This is meant to be implemented before be May elections and it has been proposed that a document will be available for those without photographic ID although this will not be available in time for the May elections. If this is brought in it should only be done so once these documents are available and not before. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? £75 Plus any other documents you may need like your birth certificate and that of both of your parents. If you have to go for an interview the travel costs so you could easily be looking at over at over £100. £34 For a provisional driving licence assuming you are entitled to one as many people are not. This is a lot of money if you are on a very low income. Not to sound dismissive, but this is a one off cost, or at least once every 10 years or so. What about the citizen card, isnt that something like 15 pounds?" See my post above. If you break it down over a 10 year period It's not expensive but you have to have the money in the 1st place as you can't pay for a passport in instalments. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? Surely if people were turning up at polling stations claiming to be other people we would know when the correct person turns up to vote. Thats assuming everyone eligible to vote does eventually vote, which they dont. So people could easily impersonate someone else and never get discovered because the real person doesnt decide to vote. And how about a person recently deceased and a family member decides to use their as well. Why not just be required to show ID? Because not everybody has identification with a photo on it. So people would have to know somebody wasn't going to vote, They would have to know their full name and address and which polling station they were registered. Not saying it hasn't happened however not enough to disinfranchise large swaves of the population. Seems like an easily boxed off risk though, does it not? How many people dont have photo ID?? 2pc by HMG estimates. Although this assumes people still have access to expired ones It keeps coming back to How big is the risk that needs to be boxed odd Verus What is the effects of enforcing it People are guessing if there is an issue. Let alone if it affects results. There are probably bigger areas to worry about. Although that probably means looking at MOs and parties. Not a bogeyman criminal fraudster gang. Not sure why youre being facetious. But regardless, why cant everyone just get photo ID? Because there are no free photo identification options. Lots of people simply cannot afford a driving licence or passport. How much does a passport cost? I think when I done mine in Jan this year at the post office it was about £168 Wow! Did you pay for it to be fast tracked because that's a lot of money. " Oh and it cost more as its 50 page not 25 I think | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said " Well if thats the case then there really is no excuse surely | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said " It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. " And the tories are goung to get hammered at those local elections so it is hard not ti conclude this is a desperate attempt to limit the damage | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. " this was dated from early this year.. You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id. The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said Well if thats the case then there really is no excuse surely " depends how easy it is to get them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year.. You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id. The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc " 4pc of ppl don't have a bank account. Even that's a luxury for some (for various reasons) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Right-wingers in America have been pulling this shit for years. It's all about suppressing the vote. Poorer people sometimes can't afford voter ID or have difficulty getting it, so parties that are there for rich people support things like this because it cuts down the amount of poor people who can vote against them. All the official statistics show that the amount of voter fraud in the US is miniscule and has never been enough to change as much as one district outcome across all of the US over decades. Is it really a problem? It certainly doesn't seem to be, but right-wingers hammer this policy and it's been very successful for them. I imagine this is just the same bullshit talking point being tried over here, probably on GB News. I bet they call it "common sense" too. " Sigh, here we go again with the 'right wingers' klaxon call. Im starting to think that these 'right wingers' appear to sound uncannily like 'common sensers' | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Wow! U really are clueless!! x"Thanks for your considered and intelligent response.  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said Well if thats the case then there really is no excuse surely " They should pay people to get ID, there would be 100% take up then. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year.. You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id. The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc " That is a myth and you can get a bank account without photo ID. You can pick things up from the Post Office with a debit card. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"To the person claiming you do not need a face-to-face interview in the uk and they told me I was wrong because they did it for their mother in laws sister. Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. Or they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview. This was taken from the government's website so I am assuming your mother in law's sister is over 69 or applied during covid restrictions. No, she’s 61 and the application was May this year ***** After you apply Passport interviews After you apply, you may need to be interviewed to confirm your identity. If you need an interview, you’ll be contacted after your application has been processed to book it. Video interviews are taking place online **** It’s not always necessary. That is for people but have already had a passport if you look up on the government website it will very clearly tell you if you are applying for a passport for the 1st time and you are UK citizen You are definitely going to have to have a face-to-face interview you can argue with me all you like but it's absolutely true. There are no exceptions to this except during the pandemic. Adult customers applying for their first British passport must attend an interview in person if they are resident in the UK, and: they are 16 to 69 years of age. they were previously issued a restricted validity passport because they could not attend an interview. From the UK government Website!" Only for people who were issues with a restricted validity passport. Not all people require an interview. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Im baffled how so many people in here seem to think its ok that one can walk into a voting booth and cast a vote without proving who they are. I am baffled as to why people think we need it. We have never need ID before and there has never been widespread voter fraud in this country. How do you know theres no fraud if there is no way of checking anything? Is that not just a free for all? You don't 'just walk in' and vote. You should present your polling card, which you will only get if you are on the electoral roll,and they then strike your name off the list so the card can't be used more than once. Yes, without photo ID you could be someone else and potentially cast one vote. However, to say that there 'is no way of checking anything' is hyperbole. If you scroll up youll see i anknowledged the polling card bit from another poster, which i wasnt aware of initially. Regardless, why open up any potential for shenanigans when you could just make photo ID mandatory? " I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote. Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone. I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance). | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year.. You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id. The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc That is a myth and you can get a bank account without photo ID. You can pick things up from the Post Office with a debit card." Sorry.. but you can't if you haven't got a bank account. And that is the point if you ate out of the system its hard. That is why homeless are homeless. No address you can't get bank Acount, no account you can't get a job. No job you can't get a home. Etc Etc of the man topic but... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It says clearly that those without suitable photographic Id can apply for free ID for the purpose of just voting. Voter authority certificates I think it said It also States clearly in the same document that these will not be ready in time for the implementation in May excluding some from voting in the local elections. this was dated from early this year.. You can't even get a bank account without photo id or pick things up from the post office. I don't know why no one would have no photo id. The full list of accepted id is pretty long and does include the citizen card, gold cards etc That is a myth and you can get a bank account without photo ID. You can pick things up from the Post Office with a debit card. Sorry.. but you can't if you haven't got a bank account. And that is the point if you ate out of the system its hard. That is why homeless are homeless. No address you can't get bank Acount, no account you can't get a job. No job you can't get a home. Etc Etc of the man topic but..." Again that is another myth. There are systems in place that every single person can have a bank account you don't actually need an address. All benefit payments are paid into bank accounts there is no other way. The government made sure all banks had an option for people to be able to have a very basic bank account where all you need is a letter from the benefit agency to open. When benefits 1st started being compulsory paid into bank accounts Post Office accounts were set up for this reason but they have now been scrapped. Also I'm not really following your logic because if somebody doesn't have an address they are not going to have a parcel delivered that they then need to collect from the Post Office. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote. Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone. I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance)." When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc ! Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote. Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone. I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance). When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc ! Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used." did everyone have a passport or drovers license ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Continue here any late commers. I read an article about it https://www.express.co.uk/news/politics/1708872/election-laws-photo-identification-requirement-uk-poll-spt/amp?utm_source=upday&utm_medium=referral Apparently voters will be required to show recognised forms of identification to vote in upcoming elections, but campaigners argue an estimated 3.5 million electorate do not have photographic id. They say the reason was to prevent fraud, what is your view of it. I think that it is it a slippery slope with your privacy and also whqt about those millions of people that doesnt have it, will they beable to vote? I think that they should have it as it is "I’ve always been against it, it’s a poor excuse to exclude voters that tend to vote for the opposition. They tried to introduce it in the states as well and there was no creditable evidence it would help reduce fraud, only exclude voters from a poor background | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote. Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone. I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance). When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc ! Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used.did everyone have a passport or drovers license ?" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" I don't have to present my polling card, and haven't had to do so for quite a few years. It's even printed on the polling cards that you don't need them to vote. Last time I voted I walked in, the lists were on tables and you could easily read names on them. The person asked me my name (I could easily have just said any of the names on the list that weren't ticked off), and she then told me my address...she didn't ask me for it, she told me. I could have been anyone. I fully support having to show ID to be able to vote. We need to show ID for many other things, lots of which I personally wouldn't class as being as important as voting (collecting a parcel for instance). When I was young I lived in several houses split into multiple flats/bedsits with a large turnover of tenants. At election time we'd get voting cards of people who'd moved on and people living there who weren't registered would use them to vote. So at least two or three cases of fraud each time at one address. Multiple that nationwide with all the student houses etc ! Also in recent years I've worked in property management and dealt with such houses. There were always unclaimed voting cards that I could easily have used.did everyone have a passport or drovers license ? Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?" it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. " Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports. I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports. I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote." for me, we have to show it is possible before progressing with this. Other countries may show how. But it has to be free and easy. It's not that lower income would struggle, just some people could struggle. I've said it earlier. It's a trade off that needs to shown has the tilt in the right direction. And as evidence of voter fraud is low, let alone being shown to impact on outcomes, the risk of disenfranchised has to be next to none. I suspect postal fraud is higher. As its easier. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports. I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote.for me, we have to show it is possible before progressing with this. Other countries may show how. But it has to be free and easy. It's not that lower income would struggle, just some people could struggle. I've said it earlier. It's a trade off that needs to shown has the tilt in the right direction. And as evidence of voter fraud is low, let alone being shown to impact on outcomes, the risk of disenfranchised has to be next to none. I suspect postal fraud is higher. As its easier. " The free Electoral Card system seems to work well in Northern Ireland and I imagine that will be duplicated. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports. I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote.for me, we have to show it is possible before progressing with this. Other countries may show how. But it has to be free and easy. It's not that lower income would struggle, just some people could struggle. I've said it earlier. It's a trade off that needs to shown has the tilt in the right direction. And as evidence of voter fraud is low, let alone being shown to impact on outcomes, the risk of disenfranchised has to be next to none. I suspect postal fraud is higher. As its easier. The free Electoral Card system seems to work well in Northern Ireland and I imagine that will be duplicated." I've had a look at the process. It's not super simple. Without photo ID (!) you need to get your MP, MLA or councillor to sign a letter warranting the photo is a likeness. So presumably need a face to face meeting. Or you need to get to the electoral office in person. Its workable but not easy. So needs to be offsetting some sort of actual issue. It's a solution looking for a problem... until someone shows me we have a fraud issue. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports. I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote." How to make ID accessible if it is needed, there's the rub. I'd challenge anybody to prove that this aspect has been addressed at all by those who have imposed the photo ID rule, and that this isn't all about a desperate attempt to keep the crooks in power. As for the 'patronising' part, that's just so much BS. There are going to practical challenges in getting acceptable photo ID - the whole thing is designed to present these to those less likely to vote tory. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports. I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote. How to make ID accessible if it is needed, there's the rub. I'd challenge anybody to prove that this aspect has been addressed at all by those who have imposed the photo ID rule, and that this isn't all about a desperate attempt to keep the crooks in power. " If you search on the gov.uk website you will see the research and consulation process which precedes any legislation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Looking at some numbers. Most electoral fraud cases reported to the police isnariund campaigning, not voting fraud. In 2019 there were 142 voting issues reported. No idea if all are true or related to GE. Looks like 2 cases resulted in conviction for voting fraud. Let's chuck a load of cost at people because.... why now ? Because almost no other democracy allows voting without secondary ID at all. Are we right and they are all wrong ? Because voting is central to our democracy and should have strong safeguards against fraud. The current figures for electoral fraud are largely meaningless precisely because there are no safeguards in place to detect or deter fraud. If we removed all traffic police and speed cameras there would be no convictions for speeding - would this mean it wasnt happening? Because voting is not just a right, it's a privilege and responsibility and if people are not willing to undertake the minor inconvenience and expense required to obtain ID - and its quite possible free ID will be issued to those with none - then I think that is their choice not to participate.
Wow! U really are clueless!! x
Thanks for your considered and intelligent response. "More than welcome!! X | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I don't vote so I don't care "Why don't you vote? I hope you're not one of the 'they're all the same' crew. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Sorry Hovis, I don't understand the point?it's not to say they needed ID to commit fraud! More to help understand if everyone in the bedsits had ID to vote if the new system was in play. Ah ok. I couldn't answer that, honestly wouldn't know but I take the idea that those in such circumstances may be less likely to have drivers license or passports. I think this is where this debate has got a little muddled. One issue is the principle of showing ID, the other is how to make ID accessible if it is needed. I really can't see how this is insurmountable when so many of our European neighbours have examples we can look at or follow. I do feel some comments have exaggerated the practical challenges in order to oppose the principle. Also it can verge on the patronising to suggest those on lower incomes would struggle to get ID if they wanted to vote. How to make ID accessible if it is needed, there's the rub. I'd challenge anybody to prove that this aspect has been addressed at all by those who have imposed the photo ID rule, and that this isn't all about a desperate attempt to keep the crooks in power. If you search on the gov.uk website you will see the research and consulation process which precedes any legislation." How about you point me to the link on research and consultation about this one, then? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" How about you point me to the link on research and consultation about this one, then?" We can't post third party links but the internet is your friend. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"There is no argument for voter ID in the UK that stands up to any scrutiny, and that’s because it’s aim is solely voter disenfranchisement. The purpose of the scheme is to ensure those who have less money don’t vote, because those people typically do not vote for the Conservatives. It should be obvious as this system will introduce unnecessary friction into a voting system that is already underused by the voting population. It’s a voter discouragement scheme, nothing more." You say that as if it's a bad thing. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Should be everyone has to register a fingerprint, name, address and mobile number to a database. Also helps prevent crime as can easily track criminals down. If you go to a polling station you have to provide fingerprint. If you vote by post you have to provide a six digit code sent by text It's your responsibility to ensure you keep records upto date or they can fine you. " This is far too easy and feasible a solution, but it could never get ok'd by the tories because it would make it easy for all to vote - and the curiosity value would probably get more habitual non-voters out than they want as well. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
