FabSwingers.com forum: Nurses striking

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Nurses are going to be striking, do you agree or disagree with this ?

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By *d4funtimesMan
over a year ago

Cambridge

They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree.

Nothing changes with the government until you force them into action.

Never proactive, always reactive.

You’d think they’d learn from past experiences.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I agree.

Nothing changes with the government until you force them into action.

Never proactive, always reactive.

You’d think they’d learn from past experiences."

^^^This, basically.

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By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish

Disagree.

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

Agree but it won't be an all out strike. Plus it's only the RCN union that has voted in favour of a strike. Emergency depts and ICU will continue with same staffing levels.

There are apparently nurses already resigning their union membership to avoid going on strike. Unison members have not said they are striking.

Rather than uniting the profession it appears to be dividing it

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Whether people agree or disagree, if things carry on as they are, the nursing shortage is only going to get worse. Its just not an attractive profession in this country anymore, particularly in the NHS. We can continue as we are and accept more limited NHS services or we can make nursing a more viable career again. It's as simple as that.

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By *hil most chillMan
over a year ago

South East & Europe

Agree

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

100% support them

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer. "

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Totally agree.

The work they do and the hours they put in are worth ten times what politicians, bankers, footballers etc are worth. It's about time they were paid their dues.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage"

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

I guess I'm from a bias perspective, several close relatives work in the NHS and aren't paid sufficiently for the work they do.

For example, there's people who work in my factory on similar wages to a recent qualified nurse, who is without massive student debt and doing mostly what I call unskilled work. I don't think they're under the pressure nurses are, not by a long shot and don't work the hours nurses do.

Like I say I'm bias because I've been to college, been educated, have a skilled job myself and believe it warrants recognition in pay and conditions, ie. qualifications warrant better hourly rate than someone without. Experience doesn't come into it because the NHS has a system in place for that too. Also I argue is more taxing and the majority are unlikely to be suitable for it, so you're paid on the value of that supply.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Yiu do know the £350 million a week never happened?

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534. "

If we talk "average", the average UK salary was £38,131 but we all know the majority of people don't earn close to that. The same with some of the rediculous claims about "average" nursing salary when they're including the likes of the director of nursing in that calculation.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree.

Nothing changes with the government until you force them into action.

Never proactive, always reactive.

You’d think they’d learn from past experiences."

Exactly.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage"

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're into reading headlines from newspapers and believe the twisted truths from government statements.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"100% support them"

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By *hiversMan
over a year ago

Dinas Powys

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

All of this. I have family who have worked as NHS nurses, and the conditions are brutal... even more so these last 2.5 years or so.

Even if the quoted figure reflected reality (it doesn't) they are worth a lot more for the good work they do.

It should never have come to this, but I support them in their strike.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

I'm going to hazard a guess that you're into reading headlines from newspapers and believe the twisted truths from government statements."

You don't need to rely on newspapers, nurse's salaries are published in the public domain. It's a broad range depending on role, service years etc but broadly £27 to £100k plus weighting allowance in London. Remuneration doesn't seem too unreasunable to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with it. They've been on the front line for months, they deserve better working conditions.

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

"Nurses are going to be striking, do you agree or disagree with this ?"
yes they are low paid, under appreciated, they have to do the most personal clean ups all in very tight fitting uniforms

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Also, some nurses are working 60-70 hour weeks to earn around the £35-50k mark. Their actual hourly rate, broken down (obviously as they're salaried) isn't that good, certainly not the same as me for instance and I don't work the same kind of stress they do. I understand that sometimes that's not how it works as people always go back to the footballer example earning multiple millions but that's an exception.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree they deserve a good increase but RCN is asking for 17% - that is not realistic.

Huge swathes of people working in private sector doing critical jobs are only getting 2% to 3% ifd they are lucky. The tax rises required to fund pay rise of 17% will wipe any rise other people will get.

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By *TG3Man
over a year ago

Dorchester

"Agree they deserve a good increase but RCN is asking for 17% - that is not realistic.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I was a nurse for 34yrs but took retirement as soon as I could. Became less patient focused and more target driven.

Still with the NHS in a specialist non-nursing role but I can now deliver 1-1 care.

Each nurse has to make own decision whether to strike but shouldn't be harangued for going either way.

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By *usicman1973Man
over a year ago

Ilkeston

"Nurses are going to be striking, do you agree or disagree with this ?"

Agree strongly

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Agree they deserve a good increase but RCN is asking for 17% - that is not realistic.

And huge swathes of the private sector have had pay rises in the last decade which have been denied to the vast majority of public sector staff haven't.

This crisis, is one the Tories have made themselves with the lie that was austerity

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The media will try to cloud people's judgement by saying it's not a good idea right now when the 'nhs is under too much strain'. They always have and always will be, don't get played by this game.

100 support anyone's right to strike and stand up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree they deserve a good increase but RCN is asking for 17% - that is not realistic.

start high and negotiate

get too greedy and lose support from people....

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By *parkle1974Woman
over a year ago

Leeds

I am a nurse and feel like the profession is no longer patient focused which is so disheartening.

Seriously considering a total new career path as are many of my colleagues x

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By *wingin CatMan
over a year ago

London

I support the strikers (NHS, CWU etc) 100%. They do an excellent job and go the extra mile, and shouldn't have to be the victim of private greed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I am a nurse and feel like the profession is no longer patient focused which is so disheartening.

Seriously considering a total new career path as are many of my colleagues x"

Do it!

Nurses have so many transferable skills and a whole world out there.

Good luck if you do.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"Agree they deserve a good increase but RCN is asking for 17% - that is not realistic.

start high and negotiate

get too greedy and lose support from people...."

The whole of the public sector have effectively had a drop in salary this last 12 years, they are starting behind the line that many in the private sector have maintained in that time..

There are nurses, firefighters and other essential service providers having to use food banks..

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage"

Starting salary is £27,000 for working 12hr shifts, at all times of the day/night and year, often caring for far many more people than is deemed safe etc. Yeah, really wonderful.

As we have a shortage of nurses, we have to recruit newcomers, but even before we get to the starting salary for qualified nurses, we actually have to train them. Nursing and medical training are pretty much the only degrees that require you to spending at least 2 years essentially working nearly FT in a medical setting, but for free. There used to be a bursary to support this, but no more. How much does it cost to travel to placement hospitals at all hours? Nursing students do not have time to get supplementary PT jobs like most undergraduates because they're doing so much placement work (unpaid).

This all needs to change.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Completely agree , i have friends who are nurses,they work in care homes ,they are salaried (£27 hour) , plus they have 3 months sickness paid a year more holiday. In the end of one year in reality they work only arround 5 a 6 month a year. I think cares they are the ones who they should protest but unfortunately they can't as they can't afford miss one day from work to pay their bills at the end of the month. I think in all NHS and private health care sector carers are the most vulnerable and more undervalued

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

I agree in principle.

By that I mean things need to change.

But why lose money by going on strike, just to get what you need. It might be better working to rule, as they won't lose pay.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"Agree they deserve a good increase but RCN is asking for 17% - that is not realistic.

start high and negotiate

get too greedy and lose support from people...."

It's relative to the value of work they do and what payment they have lost for the last decade, while everyone else has been getting around 2% each year which is cumulative they been getting under 1% or mostly nothing. If they settle on 14-15% good on them.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses at the place I've just left are paid £26ph, if they have to get an agency nurse in its even more (for obvious reasons). The carers work their arses off for a few pence above minimum wage.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses at the place I've just left are paid £26ph, if they have to get an agency nurse in its even more (for obvious reasons). The carers work their arses off for a few pence above minimum wage."

Right, yes I understand now, I know of what you mean. That's certainly not commonplace though, infact most are probably earning no more than £15-17ph.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses clinical leaders

That's why i do believe in the care sector they should reduce the number of nurses and replace them by senior carers as they can almost do everything nurse can do in terms of giving medication and having one nurse max for each day and night shift . This would cut expenses and could reflect in the carers pay rise and increase the recruitment of carers as the private health care sector really need them more than nurses

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

Support

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By *inaTitzTV/TS
over a year ago

Titz Towers, North Notts

Nurses, apparently not important enough to pay properly, but too important to be permitted to strike without it being questioned.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses at the place I've just left are paid £26ph, if they have to get an agency nurse in its even more (for obvious reasons). The carers work their arses off for a few pence above minimum wage.

Right, yes I understand now, I know of what you mean. That's certainly not commonplace though, infact most are probably earning no more than £15-17ph. "

It's common in the homes I've worked in over the years.

MrWho.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nurses. Simultaneously too important to strike. But not important enough to pay properly. (From Twitter)

I also agree that care workers are massively underpaid for the work they do, a lot of it which can be called nursing.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

I agree that they should strike, when their conditions and pay are as they currently are.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses at the place I've just left are paid £26ph, if they have to get an agency nurse in its even more (for obvious reasons). The carers work their arses off for a few pence above minimum wage."

Completely true , i do believe carers they should have their own voice a union that should only be for carers and not the need of depending of RCN Royal College of Nursing and other unions to represent them as i believe a union that is drived by nurses does not defende the interest of the carers

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"Nurses, apparently not important enough to pay properly, but too important to be permitted to strike without it being questioned.

When the pandemic there was clapping for the nurses at first , poor carers they were not even mentioned if we check those ironic words and speeches from Boris

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By *iamondCougarWoman
over a year ago

Norfuck! / Lincolnshire

I’m on the fence with this one….

Yes, they work long hours

Yes, they are very dedicated to the role

Yes, they deserve better

But!

Where will they money for a pay rise come from?

A pay rise won’t change their working environment

It won’t make the hours any less

It won’t make it any less stressful

And!

Every nurse knows what she is signing up for from the start

A lot of them are bank nurses that earn way more than contract nurses

I’m betting most of them feel obliged to follow their nursing code that says they are there to care for and attend the sick and wounded

Strikes are not the answer! Getting the economy back from the brink first is!

Then payrises for all those shouting the loudest could be considered

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nurses. Simultaneously too important to strike. But not important enough to pay properly. (From Twitter)

I also agree that care workers are massively underpaid for the work they do, a lot of it which can be called nursing. "

Ellen left nursing a few years ago. I was in hospital for a week a while back and she said how glad she was to have left after seeing how much of the patient care aspect was now done by healthcare assistants.

100% support nurses' cause. As the (more sensible) comments above point out the public sector has been shafted by this government for over a decade.

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

I totally agree with what they are doing, it's been long overdue, over a decade and should be classified as front line workers before anyone else police department or fire brigade.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"Nurses. Simultaneously too important to strike. But not important enough to pay properly. (From Twitter)

I also agree that care workers are massively underpaid for the work they do, a lot of it which can be called nursing. "

Care workers are undervalued and that's the main reason the sector is on his knees , carers are seen as some kind of unqualified people who are not important

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I’m on the fence with this one….

Yes, they work long hours

Yes, they are very dedicated to the role

Yes, they deserve better

But!

Where will they money for a pay rise come from?

A pay rise won’t change their working environment

It won’t make the hours any less

It won’t make it any less stressful

And!

Every nurse knows what she is signing up for from the start

A lot of them are bank nurses that earn way more than contract nurses

I’m betting most of them feel obliged to follow their nursing code that says they are there to care for and attend the sick and wounded

Strikes are not the answer! Getting the economy back from the brink first is!

Then payrises for all those shouting the loudest could be considered

Attracting more new nurses to the profession would help alleviate staffing shortages. That would improve the numbers of patients nurses must care for and then they might get their breaks etc. Better salaries attract new recruits.

We could reduce reliance on bank and agency staff if we had attractive pay in the NHS to start with.

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By *ed MartinMan
over a year ago

Shefford

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534. "

And when considering a nurse’s wages, remember that for years now nurses have been upskilled in order to cover the shortage of doctors, although they get paid 1/3 to 1/4 of what a GP does. Nurses do far more than empty bedpans and make hospital corners on beds now. It’s at least a degree level qualification, with many being qualified in specialist subjects to a Masters level. So that then saddles them with at least 3 years worth of student loan debt to pay off from their wages- from which they also have to pay registration fees in order to be able to work in the first place.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Where will they money for a pay rise come from?"

Sane place the pay rises for MPs come from? I believe it's a tree in the back garden of Downing Street (near where they had that party).

Or the Bank of England could call it quantitative care or something similar.

"Every nurse knows what she is signing up for from the start"

"Getting the economy back from the brink first is!

How long should we give them? Another 12 years enough?...

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By *he FAB Social - MCRCouple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

"I am a nurse and feel like the profession is no longer patient focused which is so disheartening.

Seriously considering a total new career path as are many of my colleagues x

Do it!

Nurses have so many transferable skills and a whole world out there.

Good luck if you do."

I left. And it took some doing but my new job is very similar but 100000000 times more rewarding. More pay too luckily x

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By *TK421-Man
over a year ago

Cheltenham

Absolutely support them.

It's also about recruitment as well.

My mother was a nurse all her life and the things she had to live through for the wage. It's not just mental it's also physical. She's broken in her old age.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

Everyone shd have the right to strike imo! But difficult one with nurses etc as lives shd not b put at risk x

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By *exy Pretty FeetCouple
over a year ago

Live in Scotland Play in England

Agree

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"Where will they money for a pay rise come from?

Sane place the pay rises for MPs come from? I believe it's a tree in the back garden of Downing Street (near where they had that party).

Or the Bank of England could call it quantitative care or something similar.

Every nurse knows what she is signing up for from the start

Getting the economy back from the brink first is!

How long should we give them? Another 12 years enough?..."

You have put my sentiments down here perfectly for these points I see regularly.

I'm usually astounded by anyone who can't see the common denominator in all of it.

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By *uffolkcouple-bi onlyCouple
over a year ago

West Suffolk/Essex

I don’t know what they are striking over.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

I agree.

The ballot box isn't bringing about change

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"I don’t know what they are striking over. "

Then you're either a troll, thick or don't care about social matters

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"Absolutely support them.

It's also about recruitment as well.

My mother was a nurse all her life and the things she had to live through for the wage. It's not just mental it's also physical. She's broken in her old age.

The times have changed and these days senior carers and carers they almost do all work nurses do plus their own work . Most nurses they win twice the minimum wages. When was the pandemic and the convid vacine rolled out all neede to have it in the private health care sector , when was time for the nurses from NHS to have it , they declined and i short time of space the vacine become no mandatory. The private health care sector have lost a tremendous number of carers who declined to have the vacine and they have lost their jobs. They have advocate in television the magic vacine but they turned it down when their time have come

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Like many government sectors they are under staffed and under paid.

We have always relied on them and they almost always deliver.

Good luck to them.

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By *iss KinkWoman
over a year ago

North West

I agree. Pity police can’t do the same

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Strongly agree with it

For the job they do they are not paid appropriately nor is there work life balance anything approaching acceptable

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I’m on the fence with this one….

Yes, they work long hours

Yes, they are very dedicated to the role

Yes, they deserve better

But!

Where will they money for a pay rise come from?

A pay rise won’t change their working environment

It won’t make the hours any less

It won’t make it any less stressful

And!

Every nurse knows what she is signing up for from the start

A lot of them are bank nurses that earn way more than contract nurses

I’m betting most of them feel obliged to follow their nursing code that says they are there to care for and attend the sick and wounded

Strikes are not the answer! Getting the economy back from the brink first is!

Then payrises for all those shouting the loudest could be considered

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534. "

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"Nurses. Simultaneously too important to strike. But not important enough to pay properly. (From Twitter)

I also agree that care workers are massively underpaid for the work they do, a lot of it which can be called nursing.

Care workers are undervalued and that's the main reason the sector is on his knees , carers are seen as some kind of unqualified people who are not important

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

"I don’t know what they are striking over.

Then you're either a troll, thick or don't care about social matters"

There's no need to be rude !!

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By *issmorganWoman
over a year ago

Calderdale innit

Totally support them.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable."

Yep, before tax, national insurance, pension contributions, registration fees, union membership fees, DBS fees and for many hospital car parking fees.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Agree considering all the stress and extra hours during covid at its peak then this economy on top of that yes they have my backing 17% will never happen but i hope they get 8 to 10% at least for a start do i have confidence the government will play ball no probly not

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable.

Yep, before tax, national insurance, pension contributions, registration fees, union membership fees, DBS fees and for many hospital car parking fees. "

I'll admit to being shocked at the general low level of pay I saw not only with nurses but other AHP's (physios in my case) when I locumed in a few NHS trusts. I'd say they've been lucky action like this hasn't happened sooner.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I agree. Pity police can’t do the same "

They can work to rule which means they only do the bare minimum required and don't work any overtime, etc. Doesn't sound like a lot but it's surprisingly disruptive.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable.

Yep, before tax, national insurance, pension contributions, registration fees, union membership fees, DBS fees and for many hospital car parking fees.

Lucky in some respects but many have left the profession instead which is a huge loss or have left the NHS to work privately for better pay.

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By *hilloutMan
over a year ago

All over the place! Northwesr, , Southwest

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable.

Yep, before tax, national insurance, pension contributions, registration fees, union membership fees, DBS fees and for many hospital car parking fees.

Lucky in some respects but many have left the profession instead which is a huge loss or have left the NHS to work privately for better pay. "

I couldn't complain of the pay for my mercenary work but would never have settled for a bog standard NHS pay. Even Band 6 / 7 didn't make good money for the expertise the post required. Loads of colleagues should've had higher banding but were kept in a lower classification due to funding issues

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I agree. Pity police can’t do the same

They can work to rule which means they only do the bare minimum required and don't work any overtime, etc. Doesn't sound like a lot but it's surprisingly disruptive. "

This is what train drivers are doing outside of the full strike days and it's very obvious in the reduction in services that working to rule and not doing voluntary overtime is an effective disrupter.

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable.

Yep, before tax, national insurance, pension contributions, registration fees, union membership fees, DBS fees and for many hospital car parking fees.

Lucky in some respects but many have left the profession instead which is a huge loss or have left the NHS to work privately for better pay. "

The current government wants the current structure to fail to replace with a private tiered system in my view. I'd say that's the thought process behind leaving the EU with deregulation and enabling them to change the structure of healthcare, amongst many other things.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable.

Yep, before tax, national insurance, pension contributions, registration fees, union membership fees, DBS fees and for many hospital car parking fees.

Lucky in some respects but many have left the profession instead which is a huge loss or have left the NHS to work privately for better pay.

Agreed. It's basically happened already with dentistry and its beginning to happen for GP care. You can pay for a same day online consultation or continue to phone every day at 8am every day for a week with the masses if you can't afford to.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"I agree. Pity police can’t do the same

They can work to rule which means they only do the bare minimum required and don't work any overtime, etc. Doesn't sound like a lot but it's surprisingly disruptive. "

If the police do this its going to be interesting. Their numbers are so low now it will be absolutely chaotic

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By *hirleyMan
over a year ago

somewhere

"I don’t know what they are striking over.

Then you're either a troll, thick or don't care about social matters

There's no need to be rude !!"

The comment I responded to is insensitive, if you can explain how it isn't then I am sorry for being "rude".

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses clinical leaders

What type of care are you talking about?

Nursing homes have the most complex residents and require nurses. It wouldn't be right for carers to do the job, there's more to nursing than drug dealing. Most nursing homes already have a ratio of 1 nurse to 35 residents for instance, you couldn't cut that anymore and it's already not safe.

Residential homes don't have nurses on site, they require nhs community nurses to visit for any nursing issues that develop and the carers do the medication.

For home care they only use carers and they also have nhs community nurses that visit if required.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I agree. Pity police can’t do the same

They can work to rule which means they only do the bare minimum required and don't work any overtime, etc. Doesn't sound like a lot but it's surprisingly disruptive.

If the police do this its going to be interesting. Their numbers are so low now it will be absolutely chaotic"

Bring it on. Something has got to give.

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By *idnight RamblerMan
over a year ago

Pershore

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

This is gross pay before taxes I believe, meaning actual take home pay is less. Combine that with the cost of living increases and new taxes coming down the line. Action like this was inevitable.

Yep, before tax, national insurance, pension contributions, registration fees, union membership fees, DBS fees and for many hospital car parking fees.

Lucky in some respects but many have left the profession instead which is a huge loss or have left the NHS to work privately for better pay.

What's so wrong with private? I've worked in private business all my career and it's way more efficient than the public sector. For healthcare, provided you maintain the principle of 'free' entitlement, what does it matter if service delivery is private? As an ex-pat I've seen the private model work extremely well in many countries.

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By *asycouple1971Couple
over a year ago

midlands

[Removed by poster at 10/11/22 11:08:51]

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By *iss KinkWoman
over a year ago

North West

"I agree. Pity police can’t do the same

They can work to rule which means they only do the bare minimum required and don't work any overtime, etc. Doesn't sound like a lot but it's surprisingly disruptive.

If the police do this its going to be interesting. Their numbers are so low now it will be absolutely chaotic

Bring it on. Something has got to give."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 10/11/22 11:15:51]

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"I don’t know what they are striking over.

Then you're either a troll, thick or don't care about social matters

There's no need to be rude !!

The comment I responded to is insensitive, if you can explain how it isn't then I am sorry for being "rude"."

Not insensitive! Was just an opinion or a thought? X

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m on the fence with this one….

Yes, they work long hours

Yes, they are very dedicated to the role

Yes, they deserve better

But!

And!

Every nurse knows what she is signing up for from the start

A lot of them are bank nurses that earn way more than contract nurses

I’m betting most of them feel obliged to follow their nursing code that says they are there to care for and attend the sick and wounded

Strikes are not the answer! Getting the economy back from the brink first is!

Then payrises for all those shouting the loudest could be considered

Where will they money for a pay rise come from?

A pay rise won’t change their working environment

It won’t make the hours any less

It won’t make it any less stressful

A pay rise could potentially entice new nurses into the profession, therefore could deal with some of these issues.

Every nurse knows what she is signed up for.

Nope I disagree with this, so He/she should have known what the service would be like 10 + years ago?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m striking

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

We backed them by clapping, and now we should back their decision to strike.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"We backed them by clapping, and now we should back their decision to strike. "

Yes. Lauding them as heroes then and not supporting them now seems morally repugnant.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don’t know what they are striking over. "

Pay, working conditions and patient safety. The pay scale is rubbish! Nurses who may have been qualified 20 years who enjoy being a band 5 hands on nurse won't get any extra money once they hit the top of their band, it used to be a yearly rise over 8 years. They then decided to change that up so people hit the top of their band after 4 years I think it is off the top of my head. This means nurses have to then specialise or go into management to earn more money, even if they are rubbish at it but are bloody good hands on nurses.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"I agree. Pity police can’t do the same

They can work to rule which means they only do the bare minimum required and don't work any overtime, etc. Doesn't sound like a lot but it's surprisingly disruptive.

If the police do this its going to be interesting. Their numbers are so low now it will be absolutely chaotic

Bring it on. Something has got to give."

A winter of discontent is coming and its going to be interesting. We need it to force change

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"We backed them by clapping, and now we should back their decision to strike.

Yes. Lauding them as heroes then and not supporting them now seems morally repugnant."

Schrodinger nurse. Simultaneously to important to strike but not important to pay a fair salary

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"We backed them by clapping, and now we should back their decision to strike.

Yes. Lauding them as heroes then and not supporting them now seems morally repugnant.

Schrodinger nurse. Simultaneously to important to strike but not important to pay a fair salary"

Always. Paying them is unimportant but woe betide them if they're not exemplary when we need them

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By *arker secrets 321Man
over a year ago

West Bromwich

Angels without wings ...they need looking after without them we would b lost x

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By *amantha_JadeWoman
over a year ago

Newcastle

Support them 100%

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

"I don’t know what they are striking over.

This has always been my issue. We have to be able to find a way to recognise that some nurses just love being hands on with patients and do not want to step into senior roles.

We need to find a way to develop a pay structure which rewards that experience accordingly and doesn’t force them into management to get paid fairly.

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By *parkle1974Woman
over a year ago

Leeds

"Angels without wings ...they need looking after without them we would b lost x "

I'm definitely no angel

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"I don’t know what they are striking over.

This has always been my issue. We have to be able to find a way to recognise that some nurses just love being hands on with patients and do not want to step into senior roles.

We need to find a way to develop a pay structure which rewards that experience accordingly and doesn’t force them into management to get paid fairly."

Plus they still get shafted even at senior levels. My mum is a band 7 clinical manager and has had to reapply for her own job multiple times and has been through so many rounds of restructuring that she now doesn't even work in the department she originally applied to manage. She's counting down to retirement now which is sad as she used to love her job.

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By *ily WhiteWoman
over a year ago

Personally, I don't agree with striking in any profession, especially if it affects the wider population. And surely it is going against the nursing code of ethics to withhold care. That's probably easy to say as someone who has always worked in the private sector though, I have the ability to vote with my feet and move elsewhere for a wage increase. Having said that, nursing is one of the few professions where anybody that signs up for it is aware of what the pay structure is and what is required to move into different bands and pay levels. Would you pay a tradesperson more than the agreed price, just because they decided they wanted more money?

That is in no way discounting the very valuable work that nurses do, but they knew what they were signing up for when they began training. As somebody else pointed out, nurses earn above the national average wage, they also have access to retail discounts that others don't via things like the Blue Light discount scheme, and I'm not certain if it's still in place, but they used to get a chunk of their mortgage interest free (which made a significant difference in monthly outgoings, especially at the start of a mortgage term).

Whilst I have every sympathy for anyone that is struggling financially during this economic crisis, I really don't have a detailed enough knowledge of the work that nurses do to be able to make a judgement on whether I believe that they should have a further pay rise or not. Any increase would have to be paid from the public purse though, which would have a knock on effect for us all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" I really don't have a detailed enough knowledge of the work that nurses do to be able to make a judgement on whether I believe that they should have a further pay rise or not."

But you did anyway

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" I really don't have a detailed enough knowledge of the work that nurses do to be able to make a judgement on whether I believe that they should have a further pay rise or not.

But you did anyway

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By *ed VoluptaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral.

Disagree.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"Personally, I don't agree with striking in any profession, especially if it affects the wider population. And surely it is going against the nursing code of ethics to withhold care. That's probably easy to say as someone who has always worked in the private sector though, I have the ability to vote with my feet and move elsewhere for a wage increase. Having said that, nursing is one of the few professions where anybody that signs up for it is aware of what the pay structure is and what is required to move into different bands and pay levels. Would you pay a tradesperson more than the agreed price, just because they decided they wanted more money?

Many were happy with the pay structure 10/20/30 even 40 years ago when they began training but the deal they have now is far worse than it was back then. I've also personally never heard of the mortgage thing and I've worked in the NHS 11 years and I'm currently buying property. Me and my partner are NHS staff and the only benefit it has had in terms of our mortgage is it being seen as reliable employment.

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

40 years ago i was nursing and there was strikes then, i remember having to push my way through them to get to work.

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By *HaRiFMan
over a year ago

Beyond the shadows.

[Removed by poster at 10/11/22 13:06:32]

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By *HaRiFMan
over a year ago

Beyond the shadows.

"Nurses are going to be striking, do you agree or disagree with this ?"

I agree with them, although not ideal thay have to take a stand otherwise the government will keep on taking the piss. 12 years of austerity has broken Britten, it seems no one at the tops listening.

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By *luebell888Woman
over a year ago

Glasgowish

"40 years ago i was nursing and there was strikes then, i remember having to push my way through them to get to work."

Me too. Many came out of the RCN and joined Unison and i think alot will probably do the same this time.

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By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Agree wholeheartedly. It's now or never and the NHS collapses.

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By *ustBoWoman
over a year ago

Somewhere in Co. Down

I don't really agree with it.Im not a nurse but I do work in health care and I know the union I am in is asking us to strike for better pay for the NHS. But I don't work for the NHS and I get paid a hell of a lot less and have less benefits than those in the NHS as well but they still think we should strike because the union covers both.And even if they did actually want us to strike to help us get better pay I would pass on the choice. I won't let the people I look after down by striking and that affecting the level of care they get,it's bad enough working under staffed normally without more pressure on people. While yes more pay would be brilliant as barely above minimum wage is almost impossible to just survive on nowadays despite doing long hours and sometimes ridiculous amount of days on.But the people I look after rely on us to be there to look after them.They are the some of the most vunerable in our society and cannot speak up for themselves and I couldn't have a clear concious standing outside the building striking knowing they were inside getting inadequate care.

I don't see that striking is good when it directly effects the people who need help the most, like when they have been waiting for treatment and operations and now it will be cancelled and postponed.

While I am fully on board with pay rises that are in line with cost of living I just don't see how striking will help when it will affect those who are most vunerable.

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

"I don't really agree with it.Im not a nurse but I do work in health care and I know the union I am in is asking us to strike for better pay for the NHS. But I don't work for the NHS and I get paid a hell of a lot less and have less benefits than those in the NHS as well but they still think we should strike because the union covers both.And even if they did actually want us to strike to help us get better pay I would pass on the choice. I won't let the people I look after down by striking and that affecting the level of care they get,it's bad enough working under staffed normally without more pressure on people. While yes more pay would be brilliant as barely above minimum wage is almost impossible to just survive on nowadays despite doing long hours and sometimes ridiculous amount of days on.But the people I look after rely on us to be there to look after them.They are the some of the most vunerable in our society and cannot speak up for themselves and I couldn't have a clear concious standing outside the building striking knowing they were inside getting inadequate care.

I don't see that striking is good when it directly effects the people who need help the most, like when they have been waiting for treatment and operations and now it will be cancelled and postponed.

While I am fully on board with pay rises that are in line with cost of living I just don't see how striking will help when it will affect those who are most vunerable."

It’s quite the dilemma so thanks for putting that across

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Agree with this. I work in the NHS also and I’m familiar with many of the perks and accept them. But thinks change and we are expected to accept the changes without any consideration for the factors that lead to the original decision. The 1995 pension scheme (showing my age and length of service now

) I signed up to was replaced with one that was much worse, and then another one that was even worse. I just have to ride that out

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By *phroditeWoman
over a year ago

(She/ her) in Sensualityland

Agree wholeheartedly (I have NHS staff within my immediate family and I am acutely aware of their agonising over the vote for a strike).

I did not support the empty gesture of clapping during the pandemic when I can see first hand how much pressure the NHS staff are under, the huge responsibility they carry.

NOBODY should have to queue at food banks in this country but if there were any justice, nurses, NHS staff should be pretty much the last ones to have to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"40 years ago i was nursing and there was strikes then, i remember having to push my way through them to get to work.

Me too. Many came out of the RCN and joined Unison and i think alot will probably do the same this time."

Why? All unions are planning balloting their nhs members.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Im not sure I agree with it but I do understand their reasons, whilst in hospital on tuesday I was talking to a couple of nurses about this and theres much at play here than whats reported in the media, nurses and hospital staff are getting very frustrated at gp's for not returning to normal working which leads to more presure on hospitals. Something has got to give at some point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

) I signed up to was replaced with one that was much worse, and then another one that was even worse. I just have to ride that out"

It will happen again if there's another pay rise and people will think nhs workers are living the dream.

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By *oonshadowWoman
over a year ago

COVENTRY

Nurses have to pay child care and juggle that with shifts. They also have to pay parking. They have to clean their uniforms, bringing germs into their homes and their family. They are expected to work understaffed. They are moved to other wards that they don't feel competent with, then are threatened with disciplinary if they protest. Remember they have their pin number to protect. They are again disciplined if they have too time off sick!!! They join a union that doesn't support them. Probably best to get a job at Tesco.

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By *he FAB Social - MCRCouple (FF)
over a year ago

manchester

I fully support the strikes, having worked in the NHS for years frontline, the conditions, support, working environment and pay does not reflect the work that the majority put in!

I doubt they’ll get the amount they want but they need to start somewhere x

Pixie

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nope don’t agree …. They’ve been jumped up to much and now they’re drinking there own bath water

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

) I signed up to was replaced with one that was much worse, and then another one that was even worse. I just have to ride that out

It will happen again if there's another pay rise and people will think nhs workers are living the dream."

I'm not sure anyone who's had any contact with healthcare services in the last few years could maintain that delusion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think they should get a pay raise and they deserve the 15% they are asking for but they won't get it. In all honesty the government cannot give them 15% because then all other public sector workers will start demanding the same and it's just not possible.

In all honesty what really needs sorting out is working conditions, and the reliance on agency nurses is a big problem. It costs a lot more money and also you end up with staff not familiar with the hospital's staff and wards. It will give them more incentive to not go into agency work where they can get more money therefore in the long run actually saving money.

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Bring back the bursary

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Bring back the bursary

Totally agree with this. Also bring back the diploma we do not need nurses to have a degree unless they want one which was always the case before.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agree they deserve a good increase but RCN is asking for 17% - that is not realistic.

They know they won't get that or anywhere near it but I guess that's their starting point knowing full well the government will probably only meet them halfway. That would happen whatever figure they asked for so if they asked for 12% they're only gonna get 6 maximum.

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By *urious is the VoyeurMan
over a year ago

Rickmansworth

"Agree but it won't be an all out strike. Plus it's only the RCN union that has voted in favour of a strike. Emergency depts and ICU will continue with same staffing levels.

There are apparently nurses already resigning their union membership to avoid going on strike. Unison members have not said they are striking.

Rather than uniting the profession it appears to be dividing it"

Divide and conquer!

I'm for it, about time they bit back. They may nay have changed the bands but the salaries are being paid at a band less than 5 years ago!

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By *urious is the VoyeurMan
over a year ago

Rickmansworth

"I think they should get a pay raise and they deserve the 15% they are asking for but they won't get it. In all honesty the government cannot give them 15% because then all other public sector workers will start demanding the same and it's just not possible.

Savings could be made by replacing those on the Bank Staff and agencies. Offer them better terms and conditions and they wouldn't have to take such drastic measures like resigning and joining those two!

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses clinical leaders

What type of care are you talking about?

Residential homes don't have nurses on site, they require nhs community nurses to visit for any nursing issues that develop and the carers do the medication.

For home care they only use carers and they also have nhs community nurses that visit if required. "

I'm not saying the nurses are not needed or the carers they should do their jobs , the reality of these times is nurses they win a very good wages and when you compare the work they do to carers there's a disproportionate diferent of wages and the value and recognition between both. I see many places they start restructuring their work places cutting in nurses and replace the number up with senior carers as these ones almost they do big part of work that nurses they woust to do years ago. Nevertheless the nurses they have a wages much superior. Senior carers and carers they are not nurses that is out of discussion but when they claim strike because they want more money? I don't see the connection between more money will help them at work. The structural problem and conditions at work place they complain , will remain as pay rise will only give better quality of life not better quality of work .

They work understaffed , they work crazy hours , they are not valued, they don't have the recognition they feel they should etc etc , imagine the poor carers that are the most affected in all health care sector not been able to have a union who can speak their voices and reality of their daily work , instead they are taken under the umbrella of the nurses unions and never mentioned and recognised by them as they should be . To many probably my words are no sense but i do know what i'm talking about , all they want is more money leaving behind the poor carers as always like they are some kind of unqualified and useless people in dificult times we all are living

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Exactly my point.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It appears many in public services have had years and years of below inflation increases. Of course none have been big enough to warrant a strike in themselves and I suspect HMG know this.

Nurses either have to make annual adjustments to living or hope they get a promotion to allow them to "stand still"

Now imfaltion is significant it's all come to the front. People can't make a small tweak... Espexially as they've been making them for years. It's all bone already.

Nurses (like barristers) are now wanting what was due, plus something to relect what is now. While that makes them look greedy it really isn't.

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

According to the ONS, in 2021 the median wage was £611 a week or £31772 a year. A band 5 nurse in 2021 which is what the majority of nurses are earned £25,655-£31534.

Who's earning £27 an hour?

Nurses clinical leaders

What type of care are you talking about?

Residential homes don't have nurses on site, they require nhs community nurses to visit for any nursing issues that develop and the carers do the medication.

For home care they only use carers and they also have nhs community nurses that visit if required.

Carers can join Unison like every other profession in healthcare. There isn't a separate union for every profession but Unison are perfectly capable of representing us all. Even better if someone in your job role and area volunteers to be a local representative. You seem very passionate about it, perhaps you should consider it?

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By *ellinever70Woman
over a year ago

Ayrshire

I can't get on board with this race to the bottom mentality. Whilst there's no denying that those who work in the care sector are mostly being shafted re wages and terms and conditions, I don’t think we should be normalising the idea that nurses should be grateful for their lot in comparison

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By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

Don't be jealous of others taking back power for themselves. Join a Union and have a slice of your own. The only thing you have as a worker is to withdraw your labour. Don't bother asking nicely.

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By *hedark_knightMan
over a year ago

Edinburgh

Absolutely support their right to strike. It’s funny through lockdown a lot of people were happy to stand and clap and rattle pans for nurses and care workers to “boost their morale” or whatever, and if you didn’t you were almost shamed for it.

Now it’s time for them to get paid a decent wage, all of a sudden it’s a debate about whether they should be paid that much and if they should be striking to get a fair wage.

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By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

"Absolutely support their right to strike. It’s funny through lockdown a lot of people were happy to stand and clap and rattle pans for nurses and care workers to “boost their morale” or whatever, and if you didn’t you were almost shamed for it.

Now it’s time for them to get paid a decent wage, all of a sudden it’s a debate about whether they should be paid that much and if they should be striking to get a fair wage. "

Too. Fucking. Right.

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By *oldswarriorMan
over a year ago

Falkirk

I think that is what the powers that be want.

Nurses and staff to strike and the NHS to fall into chaos.

The private sector vultures are circling, just waiting for the right moment to swoop in.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

Now it’s time for them to get paid a decent wage, all of a sudden it’s a debate about whether they should be paid that much and if they should be striking to get a fair wage. "

Shame and no morals is when they have advocated for the convid19 vacine in partnership with government to everyone have it , what become as we all know mandatory and mostly affecting the private health care sector as many they have lost their jobs for declining having the vacine , but when NHS nurses were asked to have rhe vacine they declined and almost immediately become no mandatory the vacine . The irony of morals of these days , isn't?

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Now it’s time for them to get paid a decent wage, all of a sudden it’s a debate about whether they should be paid that much and if they should be striking to get a fair wage.

The vaccine has never been mandatory?

And I don't recall nurses advocating the vaccine (obviously the NHS did)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Don't be jealous of others taking back power for themselves. Join a Union and have a slice of your own. The only thing you have as a worker is to withdraw your labour. Don't bother asking nicely."

Historically, asking nicely never goes well. The fact that standing up for our rights has been demonised - it's yet another con job from the top.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its not just nurses that have suffered since 2008 its the entire public sector, especially the civil service.

In some years teachers/police/firefighters/nurses were given higher but usually still below inflation payrises whilst the civil service pay was frozen or capped at 1%.

Its no wonder when pay has dropped continually in real teams since 2008 no wonder retension is a problem and skilled people are replaced with unskilled if they are replaced at all.

Its time we paid european levels of tax and stopped trying to run a country on a shoe string just so the rich can get richer.

Yes everyone will pay more tax but everyone will benefit from improved services.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

Now it’s time for them to get paid a decent wage, all of a sudden it’s a debate about whether they should be paid that much and if they should be striking to get a fair wage.

The vaccine has never been mandatory?

And I don't recall nurses advocating the vaccine (obviously the NHS did)"

I may be able to find some adverts or videos from few television channels on You tube from a year or two years ago with NHS nurses crying asking to people to have the vacine , i may be able to find at Tescos or Asda health care workers who have lost their jobd because they have declined having the vacine , i may be able to find in the Government website a regulation /legal requirement where it states all health care and social care staff in England they must have the vacine

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By *penbicoupleCouple
over a year ago

Northampton

I completely support the strike.

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Now it’s time for them to get paid a decent wage, all of a sudden it’s a debate about whether they should be paid that much and if they should be striking to get a fair wage.

The vaccine has never been mandatory?

And I don't recall nurses advocating the vaccine (obviously the NHS did)"

If I remember correctly there were calls for all front line, patient facing staff to be vaccinated. It started in social care and many people who chose not to were dismissed. The threat was made to NHS staff and went down to the wire. Unvaccinated staff where pulled into 1:1s and threatened with disciplinaries and final letter warnings. The Health Secretary at the time then did a last minute U-turn but the damage for most was already done

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

Now it’s time for them to get paid a decent wage, all of a sudden it’s a debate about whether they should be paid that much and if they should be striking to get a fair wage.

The vaccine has never been mandatory?

And I don't recall nurses advocating the vaccine (obviously the NHS did)

The point is exactly that the U-turn only happened because nhs nurses threat the government in leaving nhs if government didn't step back with the call to all nhs nurses be vaccinated with convid19 vacine

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By *uffolkcouple-bi onlyCouple
over a year ago

West Suffolk/Essex

"I don’t know what they are striking over.

Then you're either a troll, thick or don't care about social matters"

Really? Well thank you for your judgement! I expect you feel much better about yourself now? If only everyone could be more like you eh?

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By *MabzeroMan
over a year ago

Mid-Ulster

You're either

Give them a round of applause

Yes, give them 17% and make it an annual RPI increase every year.

The strike won't effect the rulers or wealthy anyway, as they all have BUPA, but might stir voters.

And we need to think about the effect of having millionaires and billionaires running our countries.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I don’t know what they are striking over.

Then you're either a troll, thick or don't care about social matters

There's no need to be rude !!

The comment I responded to is insensitive, if you can explain how it isn't then I am sorry for being "rude"."
It's not incentive in the slighjust someone saying they don't know enough about it. Absolutely no need to insult people just because they don't think the same way as you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage"

Are you serious?

My best friend has been a nurse for 3 years and she earns £1600 a month

That's not alot considering she's studied for 3 years and built up course fees and student loans

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

Are you serious?

My best friend has been a nurse for 3 years and she earns £1600 a month

That's not alot considering she's studied for 3 years and built up course fees and student loans "

It doesn't seem a lot but the poster is right it is well above the minimum wage.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absurd to suggest a nurse should be paid anything close to minimum wage.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Absurd to suggest a nurse should be paid anything close to minimum wage."

3yr degree, which includes extensive unpaid work placements that cost the trainee money to attend (travel, parking etc) and they should earn minimum wage?! I've heard it all now.

If we all want third world nursing care, let's pay nurses minimum wage.

If we'd like to be taken care of by a highly qualified professional, who has enough time to dedicate to us, who gets adequate breaks and can use the loo during their shift, then we have to pay properly.

People can earn minimum wages doing far less stressful jobs that do not require such an investment in education and training.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Absurd to suggest a nurse should be paid anything close to minimum wage.

3yr degree, which includes extensive unpaid work placements that cost the trainee money to attend (travel, parking etc) and they should earn minimum wage?! I've heard it all now.

If we all want third world nursing care, let's pay nurses minimum wage.

People can earn minimum wages doing far less stressful jobs that do not require such an investment in education and training. "

It's an appalling attitude.

Ellen left nursing a few years ago and I'm glad she did. She worked crazy hours and had unbelievable responsibilities. Complete ignorance not to recognise their value.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" I really don't have a detailed enough knowledge of the work that nurses do to be able to make a judgement on whether I believe that they should have a further pay rise or not.

But you did anyway

LMAO

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

I'm a dedicated user of the NHS, unfortunately. Not my fault, but I've experienced nurses of pretty much all kinds.

I can tell you that a large hospital on Merseyside appears to have emptied several Indian villages of its nurses and whole wards are almost exclusively staffed by recent arrivals from India. They were doing a sterling job; however, there were significant cultural and language barriers that heavily impacted the care they offered. They were (are) obviously very hard working and keen to work here, but it doesn't look good that we appear to have to strip less developed countries of their nurses, to staff whole areas of hospitals.

I was also fortunate to have surgery in Aug 2020 on the NHS, but in a private hospital, as this was the policy at the time. I'd waited several years for the surgery. The nurses (from all over the world) were nursing maybe 2-3 patients each. If you pressed the buzzer, someone came immediately. I wasn't able to get up without assistance but I didn't wait more than a couple of minutes, even at night. Contrastingly, when I was unable to get up and walk after the delivery of my daughter, I had to pee into a sick bowl on the bed on more than one occasion because no-one came after 30-40mins or more. I don't criticise those NHS nurses, because they were evidently under staffed, but as a patient, it doesn't help you.

We cannot continue stripping India and Nepal and the Philippines of nurses and we cannot continue having NHS nurses caring for large numbers of patients in an unsafe environment, without adequate rest breaks. People simply won't do the job and that's what's already happening. Experienced staff are leaving in their droves. Who is going to train the newbies? Who is going to take the senior roles, if the senior people quit to work at Sainsbury's for the same money?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"They are doing a fantastic work despite years of poor funding and inconsistent health policies. Although, the NHS made few of Mr Hunt's friends richer.

Years of poor funding? Are you serious? The NHS has never had as much money poured into it than it does now.

Do you know how much nurses earn, and how much they can earn?

There earning a fair bit above the national average wage

Are you serious?

My best friend has been a nurse for 3 years and she earns £1600 a month

That's not alot considering she's studied for 3 years and built up course fees and student loans

It doesn't seem a lot but the poster is right it is well above the minimum wage. "

Its not that 'it doesn't seem alot' it's not alot at all

Time she pays her bills/mortgage and she still has to pick up extra shifts to make ends meet, and her extra shifts are also subject to student loans/course fee deductions as well

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a dedicated user of the NHS, unfortunately. Not my fault, but I've experienced nurses of pretty much all kinds.

They're giving senior roles to newly qualified staff so they can fill the band 5 spaces with bank/agency staff

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I heard on radio 4 this evening that the average nurses salary is £37k for a 37.5 hour week. That had been fact checked as being correct.

That almost £19 an hour. Nothing wrong with that, fully deserved.

A large proportion of social care providers are paid around the same per hour to run a business providing home care. Thats to pay the carer, plus holiday pay, travel time, mileage, pension, NI, sick pay, pay for management, office staff, supervisors, rent, NI, rates, software fees, IT, cqc fees, phones, printers etc etc etc, and somehow make a tiny profit.

You get the idea. If you think the NHS is underfunded spare a thought for social care.

And this is the cause of bed blocking, ambulance queues, delayed treatment.

So what is being done about? Absolutely nothing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on radio 4 this evening that the average nurses salary is £37k for a 37.5 hour week. That had been fact checked as being correct.

That almost £19 an hour. Nothing wrong with that, fully deserved.

You get the idea. If you think the NHS is underfunded spare a thought for social care.

And this is the cause of bed blocking, ambulance queues, delayed treatment.

So what is being done about? Absolutely nothing."

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"Absurd to suggest a nurse should be paid anything close to minimum wage."

I do agree, what i don't support is that they are going in strike because they want a pay rise in dificult times when so many vulnerable people will not be able this winter to put the heating on or even cook a fresh meal. If they get a pay rise then all public sector also are in their right of ask for a pay rise . I do support if they go on strike to fight for better restructoration, better organisation, better conditions but not for a 5% pay rise above RPI inflation, not forgetting they had this year already pay rise and bonus pay recognising their their value through convid. The same didn't happened to the private health care sector as the bonus as been given in the hands of the bosses who have used this bonus as a lie and as a farse saying they were going to have a pay rise last year in October

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I heard on radio 4 this evening that the average nurses salary is £37k for a 37.5 hour week. That had been fact checked as being correct.

That almost £19 an hour. Nothing wrong with that, fully deserved.

You get the idea. If you think the NHS is underfunded spare a thought for social care.

And this is the cause of bed blocking, ambulance queues, delayed treatment.

So what is being done about? Absolutely nothing."

What measure of average? If a simple mean average, then the comparatively small number of higher paid consultant level and other senior nurses will skew. The starting salary for a band 5 nurse is £27,000 and the maximum of the band is £29,100. Unless you progress to a higher band, you cannot earn more than £29,100. The next band (band 6) is £33,700 - £35,500 and the roles in this band are described as being "senior" roles, or those requiring additional study and qualification beyond the standard nurse training. E.g. health visitors, specialist nurses.

We're still not at £37k.

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By *heGateKeeperMan
over a year ago

Stratford

Let’s please take into consideration that the ‘average nurse salary’ calculations will also include roles like Non Exec Board Nurse (circa 30-45k for 1-2 days a week), Director of Nursing Circa 100k+ and and ICS Chief Nursing Officer (circa £120k+). All these roles require an active NMC registration.

Your typical Nurse or HCA (let’s remember them) isn’t touching 37k from my perspective

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

What you are seeing people is as a direct result of decades of degradation and respect for "direct employment" as a direct result of "Thatcher's Britain"

Everyone should be self employed and work for themselves which caused wholesale change's to industry.

With the biggest coup of all.

The introduction of agency working.

This has seeped into every employment sector,it's killed the building trade, it's killed hospitality now it's killing healthcare.

Having disposable staff who can be gotten rid of at the drop of a hat.

Employers not investing in direct labour in favour a throwaway cheap staffing.

All was going well for the greedy employer's until Brexit killed off their conveyor belt of cheap staffing.

You are now seeing industries on their knees with lack of staff.

And no way to invest in direct labour as they have such tight profit margins to ensure greedy shareholders are kept happy.

Care workers have probably been the hardest hit by this paid a pittance for ridiculously long hours doing a job that is extremely difficult.

Get rid of agency and Bank.

Direct employment for care and health workers.

Anyone working in these industries should also have 5p cut off their basic tax rate for anyone earning under 40k allowing an instant payrise

But still contribute to this by working full time and paying tax.

Rather than the government having to find billions to pay for the increase.

Invest in people, train people,make these jobs attractive to school leaver's.

Just my ranty two pence worth anyway.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on radio 4 this evening that the average nurses salary is £37k for a 37.5 hour week. That had been fact checked as being correct.

That almost £19 an hour. Nothing wrong with that, fully deserved.

You get the idea. If you think the NHS is underfunded spare a thought for social care.

And this is the cause of bed blocking, ambulance queues, delayed treatment.

So what is being done about? Absolutely nothing.

We're still not at £37k. "
l didn't do the maths, just quoting what was said and they said it was fact checked.

That wasn't really my point anyway. They deserve that even if they don't get it.

My point was that social care is treated like shit and nobody cares about it, apart from those who are in it. And the thousands of people who need it but can't get it.

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By *arlomaleMan
over a year ago

darlington

As I’ve said previously I’ve recently had to rely on our wonderful NHS and for me they should be paid what they are worth and that to me is a lot more than they currently receive I’d gladly pay a little extra in my taxes to help fund it

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By *ools and the brainCouple
over a year ago

couple, us we him her.

Another problem entirely is ok let's say the nurses all get a well deserved 17% increase.

It doesn't mean that the NHS is suddenly going to be working perfectly.

As the government has intentionally created a system bound in red tape and bureaucracy to prevent it working to get us all into a private healthcare system like they have in the USA.

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By *nliveneTV/TS
over a year ago

Selby

"Another problem entirely is ok let's say the nurses all get a well deserved 17% increase.

It doesn't mean that the NHS is suddenly going to be working perfectly.

As the government has intentionally created a system bound in red tape and bureaucracy to prevent it working to get us all into a private healthcare system like they have in the USA.

They forget the 17% increase, that facture will be paid for most people who can't afford even having a decent meal at their tables , people forget about who pay most part of the public sector

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

"I heard on radio 4 this evening that the average nurses salary is £37k for a 37.5 hour week. That had been fact checked as being correct.

That almost £19 an hour. Nothing wrong with that, fully deserved.

You get the idea. If you think the NHS is underfunded spare a thought for social care.

And this is the cause of bed blocking, ambulance queues, delayed treatment.

So what is being done about? Absolutely nothing.

We're still not at £37k. l didn't do the maths, just quoting what was said and they said it was fact checked.

That wasn't really my point anyway. They deserve that even if they don't get it.

My point was that social care is treated like shit and nobody cares about it, apart from those who are in it. And the thousands of people who need it but can't get it."

I agree social care is treated like shit. But social care doesn't fall under the remit of the NHS, it never has done. Social care comes from local authority budgets and central Govt has been busy cutting that for the past decade or more too. Blaming the NHS for social care's ills is not fair, because the two systems are actually pretty much separate and unconnected, exactly WHY we have such a problem. When the NHS was designed in the 1940s, average life expectancy was 60s ish, maybe a bit longer if you're lucky and the range of things we could treat and prolong life was limited. It was more or less the pre antibiotic era. So social care required far less budget (proportionally) because frankly, there was far less demand. No Government has properly managed to keep up with the massive increase in life expectancy, but by association, frailty and highly complex health needs that result from us being able to treat all sorts of things that would have caused earlier death at the advent of the NHS. The NHS is to some extent, a victim of it's own success and social care is picking up the pieces for that.

By the way, the NHS has never been adequately staffed. I used to show my medical/dental students a BBC programme from the early 50s, which featured multiple NHS staffing professionals (and social care workers) complaining about decrepit hospitals, insufficient nurses, not enough entering training, excess demand on the service etc. It's available to watch in the BBC Archives and is based in Salford. A very interesting and sobering watch, to be honest. So many parallels with today.

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By *inky_couple2020Couple
over a year ago

North West

This is the programme to which I refer above

https://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p013ylft/special-enquiry-series-4-5-health-for-the-people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I heard on radio 4 this evening that the average nurses salary is £37k for a 37.5 hour week. That had been fact checked as being correct.

That almost £19 an hour. Nothing wrong with that, fully deserved.

You get the idea. If you think the NHS is underfunded spare a thought for social care.

And this is the cause of bed blocking, ambulance queues, delayed treatment.

So what is being done about? Absolutely nothing.

We're still not at £37k. l didn't do the maths, just quoting what was said and they said it was fact checked.

That wasn't really my point anyway. They deserve that even if they don't get it.

My point was that social care is treated like shit and nobody cares about it, apart from those who are in it. And the thousands of people who need it but can't get it.

I never blamed the NHS, merely pointed out that social care is in an even worse state than the NHS.

And it is partly funded by NHS, joint commissioning between NHS and local authorities is common.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let’s please take into consideration that the ‘average nurse salary’ calculations will also include roles like Non Exec Board Nurse (circa 30-45k for 1-2 days a week), Director of Nursing Circa 100k+ and and ICS Chief Nursing Officer (circa £120k+). All these roles require an active NMC registration.

Your typical Nurse or HCA (let’s remember them) isn’t touching 37k from my perspective "

It's almost as if people don't understand how averages are worked out

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By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

I have found this thread very interesting

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By *ust RachelTV/TS
over a year ago

Horsham

"Where will they money for a pay rise come from?

Same place the pay rises for MPs come from? I believe it's a tree in the back garden of Downing Street (near where they had that party)."

Hmmm, freeze MP's pay, give the money to the nurses.

Win, win situation I think.

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