FabSwingers.com forum: Capital Punishment

By *undance_Kid OP Man
over a year ago

London

Here’s a nice jovial thread to start the day !!

Am generally against capital punishment, but reading the news about an 87 year old man being stabbed to death on his mobility scooter it really does make me feel that some people really do deserve to die for their crimes.

Thoughts, yes or no ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I completely understand the anger at this specific crime. I am opposed to capital punishment and I think it's very dangerous to think that some murders are worth the death penalty and others aren't.

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

I agree with the post above. It is a dangerous concept to grade some murders worthy of capital punishment and others not. Personally if I was asked I would say murdering a child should get a capital punishment sentence. We all have different opinions and I think once you bring in such grades it just opens it up being generally introduced to cover all murders. I'm against capital punishment

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree with the post above. It is a dangerous concept to grade some murders worthy of capital punishment and others not. Personally if I was asked I would say murdering a child should get a capital punishment sentence. We all have different opinions and I think once you bring in such grades it just opens it up being generally introduced to cover all murders. I'm against capital punishment"

Exactly.

When we know A bit of a background to a crime or we feel that the victim was particularly vulnerable we rightly consider it a particularly heinous crime. Say Someone with a long criminal history Is murdered would we also be calling for the death penalty? I believe that all murders should carry a full life sentence, Every single life matters even if we don't necessarily have sympathy or compassion for the individual. I am very uncomfortable with valuing some lives more than others and with state sanctioned murder.

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

Exactly.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

No. We should not take life as a state.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

I am completely torn with conflicting feelings between having empathy for people and if my family were victims, regarding this kind of violence.

My answer would be lifeterms with no chance of parole, Instead of capital punishment. To get out after only 10 years is horrific for the victims family

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

How would you compensate a victim of a miscarriage of justice if you have taken their life ?

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By *omsubdevonCouple
over a year ago

Newton Abbot

Always love watching this ...

https://youtu.be/_DrsVhzbLzU

Ian Hislop owns Pritti Patel on this topic and I agree with him.

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By *asycouple1971Couple
over a year ago

midlands

Some crimes are just so sick there is no help for that person.

Mass murders, seriel killers, child killers,neglect leading to a death of a baby/child etc

Some people do deserve to die for their crimes.

Maybe we should leave it down to the victims family?

What if the guilty person was a child, would we still give the death penalty to a child?

Not so easy sometimes just to say yes or no.

Him.

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By *ociferu69Man
over a year ago

oban

A gen yes ...eye for an eye and all that....death for murder

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here’s a nice jovial thread to start the day !!

Thoughts, yes or no ??

An eye for an eye, let the family of that poor man have that scumbag for 5 mins then justice will be had

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Against (mostly). Capital punishment puts too much power in the hands of the state and judiciary.

The exception (to me) is crimes of a magnitude where no other response is appropriate. War crimes, crimes against humanity, murder with extreme levels of cruelty/torture.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

"Here’s a nice jovial thread to start the day !!

Thoughts, yes or no ??

There is a big difference between what any given individual deserves and what the law should allow. If the death penalty existed, you wouldn't be able to selectively make it apply to those people you think it should.

Whilst I wouldn't shed a tear for somebody like Ian Huntley being executed, you can bet your life it will be applied to others you don't think it should apply to, and others it definitely should not be applied to. You've only got to look at Timothy Evans and Derek Bentley to see the horror of the practical implementation of the death penalty.

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By *asycouple1971Couple
over a year ago

midlands

Crimes of passion, person that commits murder due to years of abuse, a child 12,13,14yr olds that commits murder

All get the death penalty?

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

I remember one guy in the pub banging on about the death penalty, was starting too loose the argument and the plot so he tried to the old "but if someone murdered your kid, wouldn't you want him to get done in then".

I responded "If my child was murdered I'd be the last person you should ask".

My answer is no and I haven't seen a country that uses capital punishment that has controlled its crime rate, murder or otherwise.

He should be caught and punished severely but not inhumanely.

If he has mental health problems, to me it's why was he wandering the streets, let's get the full facts first before the lynch mobs get going.

Very sad incident. ??

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By *aughty_Smooth_OperatorMan
over a year ago

Birmingham

I think they should be given life in prison without the possibility of parole like they do in US

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm in the minority I think, but I'm not opposed to capital punishment. I do think that the most heinous crimes should be punishable by death, as opposed to life in prison at the expense of the state.

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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Kettering ish

I think when it's a 100% clear cut case (such as those two bastards who killed that soldier a few years ago) there is no reason why the family of the victim should not be given the choice of whether the murderer should be executed or not. Personally I think it's a good idea to execute murderers and pedophiles. They don't deserve to live and be looked after by us all.

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By *bi HaiveMan
Forum Mod
over a year ago

Cheeseville, Somerset

"I'm in the minority I think, but I'm not opposed to capital punishment. I do think that the most heinous crimes should be punishable by death, as opposed to life in prison at the expense of the state.

Yep. But there needs to be 101% irrefutable evidence. Caught in the act for example, not just DNA or even a confession, because one can easily be planted and the other coerced.

The second the option is there it will create a system like America, where individuals wait years after sentencing for it to be carried out due to appeals. A great earner for lawyers, book writers and journalists, but like the current penal system, not very cost effective.

I'd rather see a return the penal camps and hard labour for murderers, sex offenders and the like.

Make them smash boulders with a toffee hammer for the rest of their lives.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Tom is for it but must be done humanely. In some USA states they struggle to get the chemicals to inject people because of a ban in trade by some woke countries. Tom would let the army do it. Death by bullets and a traditional firing squad. Cheap and efficient by highly trained soldiers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ive always been of the belief that Anyone that commits serious crimes "shouldn't" face the death penalty! Here's my train of thought..

1. Human rights no longer apply to the offender so they can't be protected by it In anyway shape or form!

2. Pedophiles should first face the family of the victim in a room where the gloves come off and no rules apply Except one where they can't be killed. (Keep reading)..

3. Murderers, Pedophiles, and offences of that calibre should be imprisoned and placed into prison GenPop for lifers to torture day in and day out.

4. When the day comes if ever we go to war, all these barstards should be put on the front line instead of our soldiers going in first. That way if the inmates want to kill each other or die on the front line they won't be missed or ever placed back into society. Even If they survive, they will return to prison & the rinse & repeat cycles starts again until they die!

Anyway... i could rant on for ages about shit like this sometimes lol either way it was just a thought

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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Kettering ish

"Tom is for it but must be done humanely. In some USA states they struggle to get the chemicals to inject people because of a ban in trade by some woke countries. Tom would let the army do it. Death by bullets and a traditional firing squad. Cheap and efficient by highly trained soldiers "

Sounds good to me Tom but have you seen the current price of ammunition??

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

I wouldn’t lose much sleep over certain murderers who reach a heinous criteria being executed.

But I would lose sleep over executing someone who was innocent. So until such time (and if) there will be that 100% guilt proven then no.

Glad they have hopefully caught the scumbag who did it.

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By *abluesbabyMan
over a year ago

Gibraltar/Cheshire/London

Like many if anyone murdered a loved one then no problem M'Lud I'll do the job myself should it please the Court.

But I once read Albert Pierrepoint's book and in case anyone not aware he was an English hangman who executed around 600 people in a 25-year career. He hanged many famous murderers inc Lord Hawhaw, Haigh the acid bath murderer and Ruth Ellis the last woman to be hanged here.

So you could say he had quite an insight into the subject, the absolute expert if you like, and his final opinion was...

"It is said to be a deterrent. I cannot agree....I do not now believe that any one of the hundreds of executions I carried out has in any way acted as a deterrent against future murder. Capital punishment, in my view, achieved nothing except revenge"

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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Kettering ish

"Like many if anyone murdered a loved one then no problem M'Lud I'll do the job myself should it please the Court.

So you could say he had quite an insight into the subject, the absolute expert if you like, and his final opinion was...

It would tend to prevent re-offending though !

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Capital punishment has always been a terrible idea. And it still is.

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By *ockosaurusMan
over a year ago

Warwick

"I am completely torn with conflicting feelings between having empathy for people and if my family were victims, regarding this kind of violence.

My answer would be lifeterms with no chance of parole, Instead of capital punishment. To get out after only 10 years is horrific for the victims family

Totally agree.

Death is too good for these people.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

There's no evidence capital punishment acts as a deterrent.

There's loads of evidence that justice systems with the death penalty make mistakes and kill innocent people.

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By *abluesbabyMan
over a year ago

Gibraltar/Cheshire/London

"Like many if anyone murdered a loved one then no problem M'Lud I'll do the job myself should it please the Court.

So you could say he had quite an insight into the subject, the absolute expert if you like, and his final opinion was...

It would tend to prevent re-offending though !

A 'life tariff' sentence works just as well though.

I guess the big one no one has the answer to (well not yet) is how to stop anyone getting murdered in the first place. Pierrepoint's argument is simply that having the death penalty does not eradicate murder.

Its a tough one!

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

Leave him with the victims family and let them deal out their justice I say

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

Vengeance has no place in a judicial system and the death sentence has no place in a civilised society.

It is well established that the death sentence is no deterrent and that reformation judicial systems have the lowest reoffending rates.

But not of that appeases the baying mob

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By *undance_Kid OP Man
over a year ago

London

"Vengeance has no place in a judicial system and the death sentence has no place in a civilised society.

It is well established that the death sentence is no deterrent and that reformation judicial systems have the lowest reoffending rates.

But not of that appeases the baying mob"

That’s a very well written piece above and it’s how I think. BUT if that was my dad who was stabbed I don’t think I would be able to control the rage inside me. I don’t even know the guy and I feel rage. Fuck me the guy was on a mobility scooter and was 87 years old.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it Justice we want or Vengeance?

Is understand why we can think some people deserve to die, but how do we decide who dies and who lives? What if we get it wrong and we kill an innocent person?

Then life in prison cant be the solution either, if you put someone in prison for life, what else can you take from them in prison to make sure they behave?

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By *parkyjayneCouple
over a year ago

midlands

I read recently that a study in the U.S had a figure of 4.2% of people executed were innocent.

There have been some horrendous examples.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

Always been a bit on the fence with this and still am. I would rather die than spend life in prison so for that reason I’d say no as it’s too easy.

However life should mean life.

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By *lym4realCouple
over a year ago

plymouth

Totally against any form of Capitol punishment and the figures about crime are scary in that a ever increasing numbers are commited by people with "Mental Health " issues and where we live last year the police said that nearly 40% of their call out's were to deal with people with mental health issues and in some cases had to lock them up just for their own safety ??

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Life imprisonment but made to work to cover the cost of keeping them there.

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By *ean counterMan
over a year ago

Kettering ish

"Life imprisonment but made to work to cover the cost of keeping them there.

This.

I live very close to a prison and the streets around here a always covered in litter, a lot of litter (lots of ignorant, lazy bone idle scumbags in Bedford!).So every morning the council send out a fleet of mini roadsweepers to clear up the mess only for it to be replaced over the next 24 hours. My point, we are paying to look after the prisoners and we are paying to clean up the streets. Why don't we get the prisionors to clear up the streets every day?

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

Or, they could be locked in a cell with nothing but a kitchen knife on a table.

In front of them a large screen flashing up your FAB posts, day and night.

Couple of days should see the knife come into action.

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By *irldnCouple
over a year ago

Brighton

Capital punishment (death sentence) NO

Appropriate a severe level of imprisonment YES.

Have separate prisons depending on type of crime (to stop minor offenders mixing with hardened criminals and being influenced). Effort to rehabilitate those who have not committed serious crimes.

Murderers together. No TVs etc. Hard labour. Whole life sentence no parole.

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

Ian Huntley should’ve been thrown in a deep dark cell, given gruel to eat and allowed a shower once a month. He should also have to see and hear videos and sounds of people enjoying themselves, knowing it’ll never happen to him as long as he lives.

He’d beg for the death sentence after a few years of that. I’d also ensure more misery is added each and every year. With Holly and Jessica’s Parents input.

No I’m not for the death penalty for child killers especially I want much worse.

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

"I read recently that a study in the U.S had a figure of 4.2% of people executed were innocent.

There have been some horrendous examples. "

Fuck me, the 0.2 fella must be in a load of pain.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"I read recently that a study in the U.S had a figure of 4.2% of people executed were innocent.

There have been some horrendous examples. "

Agreed, when you look at a prison population currently of 2 million there will be many sat waiting on death row who are totally innocent..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

State sanctioned murder? Not a good thing in my humble opinion. Multiple reasons why, main one being if you execute a wrongly convicted person.

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By *imbo59seMan
over a year ago

North Norfolk area

My wife, normally fairly level headed (if you can call an HR manager such a thing) suggested transportation of convicted murderers and paedophiles to a remote, uninhabited island (now that Australia is full.....only joking on that bit) and leaving them there. No provisions, nothing except the prison uniforms they're wearing.

Then restock with the next lot a year later.

A more extreme version of what the French used to do with their penal colonies.

Have to say, the suggestion has some merit!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think this is a very fair and balanced discussion.

What I do find interesting is a few people that have said the death penalty should be in place have insinuated it should be for certain Situations for example if it is considered particularly heinous. Thing is how do we decide this, Does it depend on who the victim is Or does it depend on who the perpetrator is? We have to be very careful with this kind of thinking because as I said before we that end up deciding some lives are more valuable than others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My wife, normally fairly level headed (if you can call an HR manager such a thing) suggested transportation of convicted murderers and paedophiles to a remote, uninhabited island (now that Australia is full.....only joking on that bit) and leaving them there. No provisions, nothing except the prison uniforms they're wearing.

Then restock with the next lot a year later.

A more extreme version of what the French used to do with their penal colonies.

Have to say, the suggestion has some merit!! "

But we used to do that and that was no deterrent. Ultimately I don't think somebody who is intent on committing a heinous crime is going to be stopped regardless of what the punishment is. Therefore we are venturing in to it simply being for vengeance and that is something we have to be seriously careful of.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

That story was so sad and I found it particularly upsetting as my dad has a mobility scooter. But I didn't think the person who did it deserved to die. I've never thought that about any crime. I think putting people to death is a sign of a society that's lost its humanity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That story was so sad and I found it particularly upsetting as my dad has a mobility scooter. But I didn't think the person who did it deserved to die. I've never thought that about any crime. I think putting people to death is a sign of a society that's lost its humanity. "

Realistically not many of the punishments for crime are very ‘humane’. We just see them as nicer than killing criminals.

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By *iman2100Man
over a year ago

Glasgow

There is still a death penalty in Britain for treason, piracy with violence and arson in Royal Dockyards. Perhaps they can get the perpetrator for piracy with violence?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I personally think that death would be an easy way out for those who commit crimes like that.

I am partial to physical and psychological torture to a vertebra extent.

Like in the movie ‘I saw the devil’

A serial killer killed the wife of a secret service agent. This agent found the guy who did it, beat him so bad that he was left unconscious, insert a gps in him, left a bag full of money for him to get back on his feet… then he found him again and do it all over again.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is still a death penalty in Britain for treason, piracy with violence and arson in Royal Dockyards. Perhaps they can get the perpetrator for piracy with violence?

All crimes including those above that were punishable by death are no longer as the law changed in 1998. There is no crime in this country you can be sentenced to death for.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Would this of happend 50 60 years ago? I think alot is to be said for giving your kids a slap round the back of the legs when they're shits! Didnt do me any harm but some parents find their kids more of a hindrance and let them run wild so who's really to blame when they grow up to be arseholes?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Would this of happend 50 60 years ago? I think alot is to be said for giving your kids a slap round the back of the legs when they're shits! Didnt do me any harm but some parents find their kids more of a hindrance and let them run wild so who's really to blame when they grow up to be arseholes?"

As the African proverb says : ‘it takes a village to raise a child‘

You can pin point that to the parents solemnly.

Of course they do have a part of responsibility in what happened but you have to take into account the social factors as well.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

The contrast in life between the victim who was busking to raise money for those in Ukraine at his age and was a popular local person to the scumbag who snuffed his life out will be stark I suspect.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

Do you think it would only be applied to those people? Do you think innocent people would be killed at the hands of the State? Is that a price you think is worth paying?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The contrast in life between the victim who was busking to raise money for those in Ukraine at his age and was a popular local person to the scumbag who snuffed his life out will be stark I suspect. "

And that there is the issue. That is when we put more value on some lives than others.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The contrast in life between the victim who was busking to raise money for those in Ukraine at his age and was a popular local person to the scumbag who snuffed his life out will be stark I suspect.

And that there is the issue. That is when we put more value on some lives than others. "

On brand for the state

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By *agerMorganMan
over a year ago

Canvey Island

Problem with Capital Punishment is that on frequent occasions the accused was actually innocent.

Though these sort of comments of “X killed Y therefore we should execute them” run purely on emotion. Which dilutes the conversation greatly.

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By *orkiebar51Man
over a year ago

Keighley

Yes, capital punishment for a range of crimes, including lying politicians

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I live in Preston it's a long way to go to London to be punished especially if I'm innocent

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By *orkcoastguyMan
over a year ago

Bridlington.

"No. We should not take life as a state. "

I am opposed to capital punishment but a state does on occasion both sanction and require the taking of life in certain circumstances for the good of society.

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By *eadinthecloudsMan
over a year ago

Manchester

The obvious argument is that a life within 4 walls is much greater punishment than a swift death.

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

"Like many if anyone murdered a loved one then no problem M'Lud I'll do the job myself should it please the Court.

So you could say he had quite an insight into the subject, the absolute expert if you like, and his final opinion was...

Whilst I don't agree with the death penalty, that argument is flawed. Pierrepoint only came into contact with people convicted of murdering in spite of the death penalty being an option. A better data point would be how many people decided NOT to murder because they could receive the death penalty. That's not something Pierrepoint would have had any specialised knowledge of.

The greatest irony in Pierrepoint's career was that he hanged Timothy Evans, who was convicted of murder on the evidence of John Christie, the actual murderer. Pierrepont hanged Christie three and a half years later after it became clear he had committed that and several other murders. It is a shocking story.

Anybody who wants the death penalty brought back needs to justify why innocent people should be killed at the hands of the state, because that is certainly what will happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Absolutely, but killing the scumbag doesn't change a thing.

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By *izandpaulCouple
over a year ago

merseyside

If the sentence started with toenails being pulled out, toes then sawn off with a hacksaw, stumps dipped in petrol, knees drilled through with hand operated drill, all nasty stuff.

Would this be a deterrent.

No.

Sadly, most criminals honestly believe they will never get caught so any punishment won't apply to them.

Murderers are probably the safest people to be standing next to in a dark isolated bus stop, their crime is generally against a family member or criminal associate not a stranger.

I said generally, not always..

A drug addict or someone with severe untreated mental health problems, different story.

If you believe draconian sentences solve serious crime, it's far more complex than that.

If only things in life were rhat simple.

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By *aleforfun22Man
over a year ago

Lancashire

My opinion is if you kill somebody like that scumbag did yesterday you go to jail for life. none of this minimum sentence 8 years and stuff.you take a life away from someone by killing them then your life should be in prison in a cell 23 hours a day.the law needs to change.then people might think twice before killing someone if they no they will be in prison for the rest of there life.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"My opinion is if you kill somebody like that scumbag did yesterday you go to jail for life. none of this minimum sentence 8 years and stuff.you take a life away from someone by killing them then your life should be in prison in a cell 23 hours a day.the law needs to change.then people might think twice before killing someone if they no they will be in prison for the rest of there life."

Prison is just a game to some ppl, some criminals have a better life behind bars than they do out on the street

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By *aleforfun22Man
over a year ago

Lancashire

Prison is just a game to some ppl, some criminals have a better life behind bars than they do out on the street"
true but if they took away there privileges computers exc left them in a sell with a small tv with itv and bbc only. they will hopefully realise its better on the outside i do understand your point and yes some people find it easier on the inside no bills to pay exc but my point is about murderers.problem is the prisons would be full in a week cause all you hear now every day that someone has been murdered.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

Some people definitely deserve to die for the crimes they commit, the world doesn't need evil murdering bastards, it may leave a bitter taste in your mouth knowing that someone who has committed the most utterly harrowing crimes gets to live while their poor victims were ripped away from their loved ones in such a horrible way, but it is wrong to sentence people to death.

I think prison is often not punishment enough, but I don't know of what else we could do aside from locking someone away until they die.

As a counterpoint though, does anybody remember that episode of Star Trek TNG? They land on a planet that's a beautiful utopia where there is no crime and everyone is happy. The reason there is no crime is because death is the only punishment they have, it doesn't matter how minor your crime is they will kill you, as such people tend not to commit crime. The issue arises when one of the Enterprises crew (who isn't aware of their strict laws) accidently tramples some flowers.

Do you think if every crime was punishable by death with no exception that most crime would stop pretty quickly?

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By *batMan
over a year ago

Alicante, Spain. (Sometimes in Wales)

"The exception (to me) is crimes of a magnitude where no other response is appropriate. War crimes, crimes against humanity, murder with extreme levels of cruelty/torture. "

I was reading recently of calls to make serving soldiers exempt from the law when they are on active hostile duty.

Who else would be committing war crimes if it wasn’t soldiers! (I’m not suggesting you thought this was a good thing, it just occurred to me after you mentioned war crimes and rightly drew attention to their abhorrence).

There is no death penalty in the UK and that’s a good thing. I’d vote to keep it that way.

Gbat

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

No x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment! "

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

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By *ora the explorerWoman
over a year ago

Paradise, Herts

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else. "

Was that reply meant for me? I don’t believe I mentioned anybody murdering anyone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes to Capital Punishment. Some people just deserve it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Interesting point coming up in the thread and I think it is worth us considering - is the point of prison/ capital punishment to punish or to rehabilitate or deter or other? Or what *should* be the point of it? I think understanding what we think society should do with criminals will help understand what society is ok with doing to them. For example, I personally believe in rehabilitating criminals and offering them the opportunity to re-enter society as better human beings. But for some, they may feel that criminals should be punished and may think in the case of murder, it justifies their loss of life or rights etc.

just interesting. Ultimately it’s not really that deep in the sense that none of us are in a position to do much about any of this. But interesting anyway.

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By *mwirralMan
over a year ago

wirral

Agreed, but shoukd repeat offenders continue to be offered rehabilitation?

At what point do you say enough is enough, 2 murders, 3 or 4 or unlimited

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Was that reply meant for me? I don’t believe I mentioned anybody murdering anyone. "

I may have misinterpreted. But whether to you or piggybacking on your point, I was meaning only to highlight that capital punishment (if discussed as a fitting punishment) is a dangerous road to walk.

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

A person dying as punishment,is too easy of suffering a crime.being locked away and never getting out.must be draining the life physically and mentally

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agreed, but shoukd repeat offenders continue to be offered rehabilitation?

At what point do you say enough is enough, 2 murders, 3 or 4 or unlimited"

Well I think the ability to have a rehabilitative system for ‘criminals’ is only really possible in a society that’s committed to understanding the things that might make people criminals in the first place and trying to work on those. To me that helps create a space where someone might re-enter society and not still suffer the same or worse social conditions that led them to crime anyway. And as well I think it means we may have to believe in and invest in psychology and psychological support that is humane. It would be a process and not something any society could switch to over night but I believe it may be possible.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

Not really a good way to deal with problems based on emotional responses, even horrific problems like this.

Let those with a calling for lawmaking , justice & social phycology do their job it’s not really relevant what swingers think is it ?

In general I’m against killing people even very bad people unless they can’t be contained any other way like in a war etc when soldiers or criminal are torturing and killing others but that’s why there are armed forces and police

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

"Interesting point coming up in the thread and I think it is worth us considering - is the point of prison/ capital punishment to punish or to rehabilitate or deter or other? Or what *should* be the point of it? I think understanding what we think society should do with criminals will help understand what society is ok with doing to them. For example, I personally believe in rehabilitating criminals and offering them the opportunity to re-enter society as better human beings. But for some, they may feel that criminals should be punished and may think in the case of murder, it justifies their loss of life or rights etc.

just interesting. Ultimately it’s not really that deep in the sense that none of us are in a position to do much about any of this. But interesting anyway. "

Prison is to remove offenders from society, when a crime is committed so that that person can be assessed for their needs and be rehabilitated accordingly.

In my utopia world that is...

There is no money to support and rehabilitate the majority of offenders and many go in and come out worse. Many also reoffend to be in the stability of prison life as that's the only secure home they have known

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

" Let those with a calling for lawmaking , justice & social phycology do their job it’s not really relevant what swingers think is it ? "

Don't talk like that, it's always relevant what swingers think

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

just interesting. Ultimately it’s not really that deep in the sense that none of us are in a position to do much about any of this. But interesting anyway.

Prison is to remove offenders from society, when a crime is committed so that that person can be assessed for their needs and be rehabilitated accordingly.

In my utopia world that is...

It’s a sad place we’re in for sure. There’s a rap lyric I heard once that I always remember -

“My guy was on the wing for so long that when he came out he was homesick” - that perfectly highlights some of the ways the prison system at the moment doesn’t reintroduce people back into society properly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Its the capital q i dont trust

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By *uffolkcouple-bi onlyCouple
over a year ago

West Suffolk

Find an island somewhere and just dump the people who can’t or won’t play nicely with the rest of society.

A points system where the more severe the crime the more points. Once you hit the threshold you’re removed from society permanently. Certain crimes such as murder and terrorism take you straight there.

Say 5 years in prison to exhaust all appeals etc then away you go

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Agreed, but shoukd repeat offenders continue to be offered rehabilitation?

At what point do you say enough is enough, 2 murders, 3 or 4 or unlimited

Ive read about restorative justice a little - I don't know if it's workable for hardened, long term criminals or even for those who commit murder.

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By *un44Man
over a year ago

GLASGOW

I do agree that in some cases capital punishment may be the answer and as a parent the murder of a child is something that always has an emotional impact. But!! And here's where the can of worms opens up on that particular point. What happens if it's a child that kills a child, what happens then, or it's a sibling killing another sibling. The impact on the family would be horrific. If you watch my dad on death row on Netflix, one girl on there is do torn between her emotions. Her dad murdered her step sister out of spite for his ex wife. Her pain and torment is heart breaking. And picking and choosing who dies based on there crime isn't the answer. Full life term with parole in my opinion is the best option. Interesting point that on the same programme the brother of a murder victim who was in prison coincidentally said that the best punishment is to keep them alive and knowing that there live is in that cell 23 hours a day is worse than a death sentence . At least with death they know when it will end.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

just interesting. Ultimately it’s not really that deep in the sense that none of us are in a position to do much about any of this. But interesting anyway.

Prison is to remove offenders from society, when a crime is committed so that that person can be assessed for their needs and be rehabilitated accordingly.

In my utopia world that is...

It’s a sad place we’re in for sure. There’s a rap lyric I heard once that I always remember -

It is a very sad place indeed, but schools are hot on safeguarding now and reports and responses with social services are better (not great) but better is a step forward. So maybe we can prevent some of the paths that people get lost on. I have a glimmer of hope for that

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

" Let those with a calling for lawmaking , justice & social phycology do their job it’s not really relevant what swingers think is it ?

Don't talk like that, it's always relevant what swingers think

What makes you think there aren't people with knowledge of lawmaking, justice and social psychology in a community this large?

Why come onto a thread to tell everyone else that it doesn't matter what they think ?

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By *eavenNhellCouple
over a year ago

carrbrook stalybridge

No and heres why

Lesley Molseed, an 11-year-old schoolgirl, was abducted and murdered on 5 October 1975 in West Yorkshire, England. She was on an errand to the local shop. Stefan Kiszko (/'ki??ko?/ KEESH-koh), an intellectually-disabled young man who lived near Molseed in Greater Manchester, was wrongly convicted of sexually assaulting and murdering her, and served 16 years in prison before his conviction was overturned. His mental and physical health had deteriorated in prison and he died 22 months after his release in February 1992 – before he could collect the money owed to him for his wrongful conviction. His ordeal was described by one British MP as "the worst miscarriage of justice of all time."[1] Evidence that Kiszko could not have committed the crime was suppressed by three members of the investigation team, who were initially arrested in 1993 before charges were dropped.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes to Capital Punishment. Some people just deserve it."

But what if the person doing the murder in the 1st place believes that? If we go down that route and say some people deserve to die who gets to decide that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"No and heres why

Exactly and I can think of several high profile cases where the wrong person has been put in prison for murder, The Jill Dando and the Rachel Nickell murder come into mind strange away. What if we had Put these people to death?

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By *atnip make me purrWoman
over a year ago

Reading

No I disagree with state murder.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

"No and heres why

Agree totally, there are too many cases of wrongfully convicted whereby had the death penalty not been removed from the statute innocent people would be dead..

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By *irDomin8Man
over a year ago

Southend-On-Sea

I think it is possible to contemplate re introduction of capital punishment. But you should ask yourself 1 question. How would you feel sitting in a cell the night before your own execution... and knowing you are innocent and the system has failed you. If you believe that you should die for the greater good of society then Yes vote for Capital punishment. If on the other hand you are not prepared to suffer at the hands of the state, then how in conscience can you subject another to that fate. You would have to vote No. Just look at wrongful convictions in the past, on every occasion someone would have said the evidence was irrefutable. Life should be life and not particularly comfortable

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By *hePerkyPumpkinTV/TS
over a year ago

Bristol

"I think it is possible to contemplate re introduction of capital punishment. But you should ask yourself 1 question. How would you feel sitting in a cell the night before your own execution... and knowing you are innocent and the system has failed you. If you believe that you should die for the greater good of society then Yes vote for Capital punishment. If on the other hand you are not prepared to suffer at the hands of the state, then how in conscience can you subject another to that fate. You would have to vote No. Just look at wrongful convictions in the past, on every occasion someone would have said the evidence was irrefutable. Life should be life and not particularly comfortable

"I'm waiting in my cold cell when the bell begins to chime

Reflecting on my past life and it doesn't have much time

'Cause at five o'clock they take me to the Gallows Pole,

The sands of time for me are running low

Running low

When the priest comes to read me the last rites

Take a look through the bars at the last sights

Of a world that has gone very wrong for me

Can it be that there's some sort of error?

Hard to stop the surmounting terror

Is it really the end, not some crazy dream?"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I agree with it tbh, some people do not deserve to live life.

But I understand why so many are against it and I can understand the complications that would unfold.

But there's plenty of people I know of who deserve to die. But that's just my opinion bestie.

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By * and R cple4Couple
over a year ago

swansea

"No and heres why

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"There is still a death penalty in Britain for treason, piracy with violence and arson in Royal Dockyards. Perhaps they can get the perpetrator for piracy with violence?

Thats was all done away with about 25 years ago.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree with it tbh, some people do not deserve to live life.

But I understand why so many are against it and I can understand the complications that would unfold.

But there's plenty of people I know of who deserve to die. But that's just my opinion bestie."

That's the problem though isn't it. You can't say who does and does not deserve to die, Who decides that? If we were to go down that route then murder would be legal.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree with it tbh, some people do not deserve to live life.

But I understand why so many are against it and I can understand the complications that would unfold.

But there's plenty of people I know of who deserve to die. But that's just my opinion bestie.

That's the problem though isn't it. You can't say who does and does not deserve to die, Who decides that? If we were to go down that route then murder would be legal. "

Well exactly. I'm sure many of us would disagree on what makes someone deserve death but I was just saying if it was up to me I'd know plenty who I would recommend.

I wouldn't mind legal murder tbh if that makes me as bad as them so be it.

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By *alking HeadMan
over a year ago

Bolton

It can't be brought back. They tied that up tight when it was finally scrapped.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I agree with it tbh, some people do not deserve to live life.

But I understand why so many are against it and I can understand the complications that would unfold.

But there's plenty of people I know of who deserve to die. But that's just my opinion bestie.

That's the problem though isn't it. You can't say who does and does not deserve to die, Who decides that? If we were to go down that route then murder would be legal.

Well exactly. I'm sure many of us would disagree on what makes someone deserve death but I was just saying if it was up to me I'd know plenty who I would recommend.

I wouldn't mind legal murder tbh if that makes me as bad as them so be it.

Murder is, by definition, illegal. However, you can have lawful homicide. Self defence, for instance, where the force is deemed reasonable.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It cost 250k per year to keep Peter Sutcliffe in jail

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Just slowly shoot these buggers

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Just slowly shoot these buggers "
please stop suggesting this.

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By *ik MMan
over a year ago

Lancashire

I’ll take my chances thanks.

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

"Just slowly shoot these buggers please stop suggesting this. "

Why?

Tom would slowly pull that trigger.. and execute those smug buggers..

And only one thought.. Revenge..

An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth..

Not re education...not rehabilitation..

Revenge pure and simple..

And before a public audience and baying mob..

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By *ucka39Man
over a year ago

Newcastle

just interesting. Ultimately it’s not really that deep in the sense that none of us are in a position to do much about any of this. But interesting anyway.

Prison is to remove offenders from society, when a crime is committed so that that person can be assessed for their needs and be rehabilitated accordingly.

In my utopia world that is...

But if the criminal does not participate nothing can be rehabilitated people who have received ipp don't get out unless they can show low risk but if innocent and given ipp remaining locked up unless they win their appeal in court

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By *ssex_tomMan
over a year ago

Chelmsford

Tom would have the bugger tied to a stake and no blindfolds..

The army would completely surround the prisoner in a circle so there would be no escape. On command from the Colonel they would all open fire with machine guns until the last bullet was detonated. The Colonel would then command the army to fix bayonets and charge the prisoner and make sure the bayonets are red with blood. Only then would the Colonel give the command ..

At Ease....

The army doctor would certify the death before the men are called to attention and proudly marched off...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Tom would have the bugger tied to a stake and no blindfolds..

At Ease....

The army doctor would certify the death before the men are called to attention and proudly marched off..."

Wouldn't most of them shoot eachother if they were all in a circle...I like the plan but there's a flaw there somewhere

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By *rhugesMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

Here's the thing ,all my ethics tell me that capital punishment is wrong, but if someone rap*d or murder*d either of my daughters I'm want them dead, so I can't say I don't agree with it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Here's the thing ,all my ethics tell me that capital punishment is wrong, but if someone rap*d or murder*d either of my daughters I'm want them dead, so I can't say I don't agree with it"

I think, and this isn’t a bad thing, that if you’re willing to do it in certain circumstances, then you’re for it.

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By *tephTV67TV/TS
over a year ago

Cheshire

"Tom would have the bugger tied to a stake and no blindfolds..

At Ease....

The army doctor would certify the death before the men are called to attention and proudly marched off..."

Every single one of those soldiers would be killed or wounded if they circled the Prisoner, as they’d end up shooting each other, so the bayonet charge is a definitely not going to happen.

If you actually wanted to do an effective firing squad. Then you tie the guy to a post, GPMG (belt fed machine gun) he’d be in two pieces before you know it and you’d also need a new post.

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By *ollydoesWoman
over a year ago

Shangri-La

For every eight people executed in the United States since the 1970s, one person has been wrongfully convicted and later exonerated, and then there are the 100,s who got sent to death row for decades and eventually proved innocent.

Mistakes can always happen.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t believe in it. Should be abolished everywhere.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

Too many bent cops falsifying evidence.

Birmingham six being one example.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I think it's barbaric, and the idea of bringing it back is just catering to the worst instincts of baying mobs.

Plus, I think trusting any of our institutions with something so profoundly irreversible is naive in the current context.

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By *irDomin8Man
over a year ago

Southend-On-Sea

I’ll take my chances thanks.

Forensic capabilities along with disclosure obligations under CPIA 1996 have pretty much eliminated chances of wrongful conviction. That’s not to say it should be a blanket approach but should certainly be an option in the most heinous of cases "
Take your chances is a very flippant remark from which I can assume, you have seriously considered the prospect and would be fatalistic upon the prospect of being executed as an innocent. We all know that evidence can be faked people framed for judicial expedience, it has happened is happening and will happen in the future. Please do not think I am suggesting all police are bad far from it. But are there corrupt elements of course.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

With DNA, CCTV, phone data evidence wrongful convictions are less common. I would be in favour of capital punishment.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yes. 100%. Murder someone, destroy families, costs in legal etc. We as a species are more than 8 billion strong potentially this November, we can cope with getting rid of the bad eggs. Why should tax money be used to sustain these animals? Execute them I say. We need an effective deterrent, there will however need to be criteria to allow said execution to happen. Alternatively, a Battle Royale twice a year with betting and all channels show it, 1 winner earns freedom. At least we all get some entertainment that way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Yes. 100%. Murder someone, destroy families, costs in legal etc. We as a species are more than 8 billion strong potentially this November, we can cope with getting rid of the bad eggs. Why should tax money be used to sustain these animals? Execute them I say. We need an effective deterrent, there will however need to be criteria to allow said execution to happen. Alternatively, a Battle Royale twice a year with betting and all channels show it, 1 winner earns freedom. At least we all get some entertainment that way.

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

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By *0shadesOfFilthMan
over a year ago

nearby

So much evidence is unreliable

What about the MI5 cover up of princess Diana’s assassination.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK. "

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

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By *ananaman41Man
over a year ago

Dublin

I love all the keyboard warriors in here with their 'leave him in a room with the victims family' or 'let me at him for a few mins and ill sort the justice blah blah blah'.

What if he ends up killing the family or you as well tough guy?

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all. "

There are studies of this. It may deter specific individuals, but on a community level, it provides zero measurable deterrent. (That is, if in a particular US state, 10 people might do a death penalty worthy thing without the death penalty, 10 or more would do it in a state with the death penalty with an equal population. While it might deter Nigel No-good, it doesn't matter if Cynthia Criminal and Matt Monster step into his place)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all. "

Of course I can say that. It makes very little difference. In fact some countries that have the death penalty have higher rates of murder than those that don't.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

The study you quote, sounds like it could have been sponsored by anti death penalty groups.

The fact it deterred Nigel No-good, means it deterred, but I agree it does not deter all, or death penalty crimes would be 0.

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By *undance_Kid OP Man
over a year ago

London

The thread has brought up many excellent posts. I didn’t mean it as a deterrent, I meant it as a suitable punishment. I’ve always been against but then I think about someone like Andrea Breivik, and no matter what anyone says to me I don’t think I can change my opinion about such an evil person and that he should just be wiped off the face of the earth forever.

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By *riel13Woman
over a year ago

Northampton

What makes you feel differently about this case?

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By *riel13Woman
over a year ago

Northampton

[Removed by poster at 19/08/22 14:34:51]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"The thread has brought up many excellent posts. I didn’t mean it as a deterrent, I meant it as a suitable punishment. I’ve always been against but then I think about someone like Andrea Breivik, and no matter what anyone says to me I don’t think I can change my opinion about such an evil person and that he should just be wiped off the face of the earth forever."

I get that but the problem you have there is what if an individual decides that somebody is evil and deserves to die? We can't say some people deserve to die and others don't. That is not how a civilised society works. If we decide that killing somebody is wrong then how does it make it right just because the government says it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Honestly couldn't care less. An opinion was asked for, I have mine. Too soft on people. If you are dragging the species down, doing horrible shit, be gone.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honestly couldn't care less. An opinion was asked for, I have mine. Too soft on people. If you are dragging the species down, doing horrible shit, be gone. "

This kind of attitude is what is wrong with society. I would argue this attitude drags the species down.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

Of course I can say that. It makes very little difference. In fact some countries that have the death penalty have higher rates of murder than those that don't. "

You can say what you like to be fair. You are however picking out internet stats that try and prove your point.

In countries where the death penalty is in place and they have more murders than countries that don't, do you think they would have even more deaths if they didn't have the death penalty?

The death penalty will deter someone people from committing a crime that could end in them being executed, that has then deterred.

For clarity, it doesn't deter everyone, or the crimes that carry the death penalty would be 0

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

The study you quote, sounds like it could have been sponsored by anti death penalty groups.

The fact it deterred Nigel No-good, means it deterred, but I agree it does not deter all, or death penalty crimes would be 0.

Studies plural. Academic studies. No sponsorship.

You're talking about specific deterrence (deters Nigel, or the perpetrator from reoffending - obviously the definition doesn't work after execution). I care more about general deterrence (will it reduce the likelihood of anyone doing it). If there are 20 victims of death penalty worthy thing, and you spend millions to make it 20 or 22 - even assuming wrongful execution never happens - then what fucking point is there in it?

(If it matters, I have a tertiary qualification in a *very* related subject. I'm not talking out of my arse)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honestly couldn't care less. An opinion was asked for, I have mine. Too soft on people. If you are dragging the species down, doing horrible shit, be gone.

This kind of attitude is what is wrong with society. I would argue this attitude drags the species down. "

Society is what's wrong with society. Argue all you like, ain't gonna change a jot about how I feel. Empty the prisons into a volcano, use the funds for affordable housing and live a good happy life. Happy days.

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

Definitely should have capital punishment. Better a dead martyr than living murderer.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

Of course I can say that. It makes very little difference. In fact some countries that have the death penalty have higher rates of murder than those that don't.

You can say what you like to be fair. You are however picking out internet stats that try and prove your point.

In countries where the death penalty is in place and they have more murders than countries that don't, do you think they would have even more deaths if they didn't have the death penalty?

The death penalty will deter someone people from committing a crime that could end in them being executed, that has then deterred.

For clarity, it doesn't deter everyone, or the crimes that carry the death penalty would be 0"

Could you show me where I have "d any Internet stats? If you are OK with state sanctioned murder and the state deciding who lives and who dies guys based on emotion then that's up to you.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

In a civilised society as you say, where the death penalty is in place, it would be the law, a judge and jury to decide if death of by execution was the right thing to do, not the government.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I've never wanted anyone to die or wished physical harm upon them. No matter what they've done. We can be angry and horrified without wanting others to die. IMO at least.

Looking through the thread, I'm curious whether there's a gender divide on this?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Honestly couldn't care less. An opinion was asked for, I have mine. Too soft on people. If you are dragging the species down, doing horrible shit, be gone.

This kind of attitude is what is wrong with society. I would argue this attitude drags the species down.

What if society decides that you are a blight on society, Or friend or family member? It would be OK for them to be murdered by the state would it?

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

"Crimes of passion, person that commits murder due to years of abuse, a child 12,13,14yr olds that commits murder

All get the death penalty? "

That's not how it works though,is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

In a civilised society as you say, where the death penalty is in place, it would be the law, a judge and jury to decide if death of by execution was the right thing to do, not the government. "

Of course it's the government because it's the government that make the law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hard labour, scientific tests and life in prison without parole for those found guilty

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

The study you quote, sounds like it could have been sponsored by anti death penalty groups.

The fact it deterred Nigel No-good, means it deterred, but I agree it does not deter all, or death penalty crimes would be 0.

Studies plural. Academic studies. No sponsorship.

(If it matters, I have a tertiary qualification in a *very* related subject. I'm not talking out of my arse)"

it is still a deterrent, to some people so it does prevent some crimes that people would have committed if the death penalty did not exist.

Arguing that it doesn't deter everyone is proving what? I can't think of one thing that deters everyone, or we would have no crime.

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else. "

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

"Honestly couldn't care less. An opinion was asked for, I have mine. Too soft on people. If you are dragging the species down, doing horrible shit, be gone.

This kind of attitude is what is wrong with society. I would argue this attitude drags the species down.

I'd vote for that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 19/08/22 14:51:09]

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

"I've never wanted anyone to die or wished physical harm upon them. No matter what they've done. We can be angry and horrified without wanting others to die. IMO at least.

Looking through the thread, I'm curious whether there's a gender divide on this? "

There's obviously not and you would know that if you had read the thread as you claim.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race. "

I think you will find it as you that has decided this is a statement about race. I said marginalised groups you chose to take that as race.

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

That's not true though and anyone that believes that race doesn't play a part into whether someone is more likely to be sentenced to death is deluded. "

Ok let's play your wee game. How many minorities compared to non minorities have been given the death penalty in the UK?

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

I think you will find it as you that has decided this is a statement about race. I said marginalised groups you chose to take that as race. "

Define marginalised groups?

Groups like murderers, rapist's, burglars?

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

In a civilised society as you say, where the death penalty is in place, it would be the law, a judge and jury to decide if death of by execution was the right thing to do, not the government.

Of course it's the government because it's the government that make the law. "

In a civilised society as you said, which is important, we would see a jury decide guilt, and a judge that decides the punishment, the judge may decide to jail rather than execute....

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

The study you quote, sounds like it could have been sponsored by anti death penalty groups.

The fact it deterred Nigel No-good, means it deterred, but I agree it does not deter all, or death penalty crimes would be 0.

Studies plural. Academic studies. No sponsorship.

(If it matters, I have a tertiary qualification in a *very* related subject. I'm not talking out of my arse)

it is still a deterrent, to some people so it does prevent some crimes that people would have committed if the death penalty did not exist.

Arguing that it doesn't deter everyone is proving what? I can't think of one thing that deters everyone, or we would have no crime.

I'm not sure if you don't understand what I'm saying, or you're being deliberately obtuse.

The death penalty does not reduce the number of these heinous crimes committed. If anything it increases them.

We don't make policy decisions based on one person. That's against the rule of law (a British invention, if it matters) and makes incredibly bad law.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

That's not true though and anyone that believes that race doesn't play a part into whether someone is more likely to be sentenced to death is deluded.

Ok let's play your wee game. How many minorities compared to non minorities have been given the death penalty in the UK?

We are not talking about the uk at the moment as we don't have the death penalty. Please don't try and twist my words and make this into something it isn't because that looks bad on you not me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

I think you will find it as you that has decided this is a statement about race. I said marginalised groups you chose to take that as race.

Define marginalised groups?

Groups like murderers, rapist's, burglars?"

Marginalized populations are groups and communities that experience discrimination and exclusion (social, political and economic) because of unequal power relationships across economic, political, social and cultural dimensions.

I hope that helps you.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

The study you quote, sounds like it could have been sponsored by anti death penalty groups.

The fact it deterred Nigel No-good, means it deterred, but I agree it does not deter all, or death penalty crimes would be 0.

Studies plural. Academic studies. No sponsorship.

(If it matters, I have a tertiary qualification in a *very* related subject. I'm not talking out of my arse)

it is still a deterrent, to some people so it does prevent some crimes that people would have committed if the death penalty did not exist.

Arguing that it doesn't deter everyone is proving what? I can't think of one thing that deters everyone, or we would have no crime.

I'm not sure if you don't understand what I'm saying, or you're being deliberately obtuse.

The death penalty does not reduce the number of these heinous crimes committed. If anything it increases them.

We don't make policy decisions based on one person. That's against the rule of law (a British invention, if it matters) and makes incredibly bad law. "

I understand exactly what you are saying and I disagree with what you.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

That's not true though and anyone that believes that race doesn't play a part into whether someone is more likely to be sentenced to death is deluded.

Ok let's play your wee game. How many minorities compared to non minorities have been given the death penalty in the UK?

I don't know the figures, but such an analysis would need to be multifactorial. Like, if it's two black men and five white men (invented number), the fact that white people outnumber black people would tend to imply that it's still racially biased.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

But we know that the death penalty isn't a deterrent. I genuinely don't understand how someone can say killing someone is wrong unless the government says it's OK.

you can't say the death penalty is not a deterrent, it will deter some but not all.

The study you quote, sounds like it could have been sponsored by anti death penalty groups.

The fact it deterred Nigel No-good, means it deterred, but I agree it does not deter all, or death penalty crimes would be 0.

Studies plural. Academic studies. No sponsorship.

(If it matters, I have a tertiary qualification in a *very* related subject. I'm not talking out of my arse)

it is still a deterrent, to some people so it does prevent some crimes that people would have committed if the death penalty did not exist.

Arguing that it doesn't deter everyone is proving what? I can't think of one thing that deters everyone, or we would have no crime.

I'm not sure if you don't understand what I'm saying, or you're being deliberately obtuse.

The death penalty does not reduce the number of these heinous crimes committed. If anything it increases them.

We don't make policy decisions based on one person. That's against the rule of law (a British invention, if it matters) and makes incredibly bad law.

I understand exactly what you are saying and I disagree with what you."

So you want violent crime to stay the same or increase, and that's fine because we'll have the death penalty and yay?

I mean, whatever floats your boat, but ok.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

I think you will find it as you that has decided this is a statement about race. I said marginalised groups you chose to take that as race.

Define marginalised groups?

Groups like murderers, rapist's, burglars?

I hope that helps you. "

What is your point

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By *tooveMan
over a year ago

belfast

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

That's not true though and anyone that believes that race doesn't play a part into whether someone is more likely to be sentenced to death is deluded.

Ok let's play your wee game. How many minorities compared to non minorities have been given the death penalty in the UK?

We are not talking about the uk at the moment as we don't have the death penalty. Please don't try and twist my words and make this into something it isn't because that looks bad on you not me. "

We are talking about the UK. Vast majority on this site are in the UK and the question was asked if it was right.

You know the answer you would have to give wouldn't be the one you want to give.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"So much talk about deterrents on this thread. It’s not just about that it’s about a fitting punishment!

Allowing the state to murder is a dangerous idea and one that will invariably affect minoritised/ marginalised groups far more than anyone else.

Lol. Always one playing the race card.

Scumbags are scumbags no matter what race.

I think you will find it as you that has decided this is a statement about race. I said marginalised groups you chose to take that as race.

Define marginalised groups?

Groups like murderers, rapist's, burglars?

I hope that helps you.

What is your point "

I'm answering a question. If you had read it properly you would know that.

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By *ooo wet tight hornyWoman
over a year ago

lancashire

"I remember one guy in the pub banging on about the death penalty, was starting too loose the argument and the plot so he tried to the old "but if someone murdered your kid, wouldn't you want him to get done in then".

I responded "If my child was murdered I'd be the last person you should ask".

My answer is no and I haven't seen a country that uses capital punishment that has controlled its crime rate, murder or otherwise.

He should be caught and punished severely but not inhumanely.

If he has mental health problems, to me it's why was he wandering the streets, let's get the full facts first before the lynch mobs get going.

Very sad incident. ?? "

If this guy has Mental Health issues it's this 'care in the community' that doesn't work..as it's been proven before with other cases. They take the correct medication and their Mental Health symptoms are controlled...they don't take the medication or it's no longer working then an innocent person's life is destroyed or ruined. No one can be forced to take medication unless in a Mental Health unit and then it has to authorized by more than one Professional working in that field. It's a very emotive subject and Psychiatry is a very complicated area which needs much more funding.