FabSwingers.com forum: What is a women?

By *imberman41 OP Man
over a year ago

coventry

What is a women?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A challenge....but worth it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

An Adult Female...

Let the confusion commence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What ISN'T a woman?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/07/22 11:17:55]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

“You can lie to yourself all you want, but you cannot drag me into it. And so it goes for pronouns. If I intentionally call a man “she,” I have lied. I have conveyed something that isn’t true. Despite my polite intentions, all I’ve done is contribute to the confusion, dishonesty, and intellectual chaos rampant in our culture.”

Matt Walsh

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By *rumpyMcFuckNuggetMan
over a year ago

Den of Iniquity

"What is a women?"

Always right

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"“You can lie to yourself all you want, but you cannot drag me into it. And so it goes for pronouns. If I intentionally call a man “she,” I have lied. I have conveyed something that isn’t true. Despite my polite intentions, all I’ve done is contribute to the confusion, dishonesty, and intellectual chaos rampant in our culture.”

Matt Walsh

I mute those ads when they show up then go do something else.

I have no love for Google, but less money in the pockets of hatemongers suits me just fine.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Is it something religious?

Related to a men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Achilles heel

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A man with a womb

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/07/22 11:33:25]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A hormonal beast who is here to tease your penis, delete your messages and provide milk if your thirsty.

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By *andyfloss2000Woman
over a year ago

ashford

"What is a women?

Always right

Correct answer! X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is a women?"

It's a plural of woman.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A mood fest

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The one nagging the bloke to do some weekend DIY.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Someone a guy can't live without

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Very true. Flip what is a man

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

An adult female human being.

end of....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A hardon that hasnt yet arrived

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Very true. Flip what is a man "

What has he got ?

If not himself then he has naught.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

A woman is a person born as a female who lives their life as a female and is happy, content and secure in her own identity.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is a women?

It's a plural of woman."

Too many people don't understand this.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A man with a womb "

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

“It’s a boy, it’s a boy!” And somebody said “but it hasn’t got a winkle!” And then I said “A boy without a winkle? God be praised, it is a miracle. A boy without a winkle!”...

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"A woman is a person born as a female who lives their life as a female and is happy, content and secure in her own identity."

And recognises gross inaccuracy

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"A woman is a person born as a female who lives their life as a female and is happy, content and secure in her own identity.

And recognises gross inaccuracy "

143

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"“It’s a boy, it’s a boy!” And somebody said “but it hasn’t got a winkle!” And then I said “A boy without a winkle? God be praised, it is a miracle. A boy without a winkle!”... "

....and then Sir Thomas Moore pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl and everyone was disppointed !

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"“It’s a boy, it’s a boy!” And somebody said “but it hasn’t got a winkle!” And then I said “A boy without a winkle? God be praised, it is a miracle. A boy without a winkle!”...

....and then Sir Thomas Moore pointed out that a boy without a winkle is a girl and everyone was disppointed !"

Yes, he was a very perceptive man, Sir Thomas More.

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By *assing Fancies xCouple
over a year ago

Sherwood Forest

Kind of like that bit of bacon you get stuck in your teeth... can be annoy foe a while but definitely worth the wait when you finally get that delicious little morsel

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

*sigh*

Im not gonna give a young persons definition of the term "woman" or discuss gender here because Im sure I would just get shouted down. Whats the point?

However I do wanna say - Trans women: I see you, and recognise you as the women you are. Rock on girls!

People who find this offensive: the world is changing so quickly and Im sorry if that feels scary to you. I agree that there are lots of discussions that need to be had, and I wish that it were easier for everyone to discuss it together. I think so many people just need to have their fears listened to.

I hope you can find people who will talk to you about your fears and your struggles, and that you find your peace with the world as it changes to become more inclusive of trans people.

Smiles, with a hint of melancholy,

Fay x

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By *olfy and SheepCouple
over a year ago

Lanark

I do wonder why the TERFs always act so un-ladylike. Quite ironic really.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"*sigh*

Im not gonna give a young persons definition of the term "woman" or discuss gender here because Im sure I would just get shouted down. Whats the point?

However I do wanna say - Trans women: I see you, and recognise you as the women you are. Rock on girls!

I hope you can find people who will talk to you about your fears and your struggles, and that you find your peace with the world as it changes to become more inclusive of trans people.

Smiles, with a hint of melancholy,

Fay x "

Well said.

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By *emorefridaCouple
over a year ago

La la land

https://youtu.be/lXyA4MXKIKo

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By *rhugesMan
over a year ago

Cardiff

[Removed by poster at 25/07/22 12:56:56]

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"*sigh*

Im not gonna give a young persons definition of the term "woman" or discuss gender here because Im sure I would just get shouted down. Whats the point?

However I do wanna say - Trans women: I see you, and recognise you as the women you are. Rock on girls!

I hope you can find people who will talk to you about your fears and your struggles, and that you find your peace with the world as it changes to become more inclusive of trans people.

Smiles, with a hint of melancholy,

Fay x "

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By *innie The MinxWoman
over a year ago

Under the Duvet

I is a woman.

Or I was the last time I checked

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

I'm a woman.

My sense of gender and identity is not threatened by anyone else defining themselves as they want to. It's especially not threatened by making language more inclusive in medicine (smears for people with a cervix - I have a cervix; services for birthing people - if I were to have a baby, I would be a birthing person), or giving people appropriate care for their psychosocial needs.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a woman.

I disagree with this because whilst I believe everybody should be treated with dignity, Sensitivity and care That does not mean that my right to call myself a woman and be referred to as a woman should be threatened. If somebody says to their health care providers they want to be referred to as a person rather than a man or a woman, or they want their breasts to be referred to as a chest for example then that should be respected. However if I want my my preference on how my body parts are referred to should also be respected.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 25/07/22 13:10:15]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Difficult to turn on.

Impossible to turn off.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"*sigh*

Im not gonna give a young persons definition of the term "woman" or discuss gender here because Im sure I would just get shouted down. Whats the point?

However I do wanna say - Trans women: I see you, and recognise you as the women you are. Rock on girls!

I hope you can find people who will talk to you about your fears and your struggles, and that you find your peace with the world as it changes to become more inclusive of trans people.

Smiles, with a hint of melancholy,

Fay x "

We can be more inclusive of trans people without marginalising women who where born as women. Its not about being scared, it's about being able to refer to ourselves as we choose and is this not what this whole argument is about? So some people can have their preferred pronouns but others can't. I am not a person with a cervix I am a woman with a cervix.

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By *ity_BoyMan
over a year ago

London

Ah, the daily trans bashing thread on fab

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Ah, the daily trans bashing thread on fab

One of them yeah

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

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By *itty9899Man
over a year ago

Craggy Island

An enigma wrapped up in a puzzle surrounded in mysterious mystery.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Ah, the daily trans bashing thread on fab

Is it trans bashing or is it just people having a discussion? Saying that you don't agree that everybody should be referred to in a gender not make someone a Tras basher. This is a major issue that people cannot raise concerns or see things differently without being called transphobic.

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"*sigh*

Im not gonna give a young persons definition of the term "woman" or discuss gender here because Im sure I would just get shouted down. Whats the point?

However I do wanna say - Trans women: I see you, and recognise you as the women you are. Rock on girls!

I hope you can find people who will talk to you about your fears and your struggles, and that you find your peace with the world as it changes to become more inclusive of trans people.

Smiles, with a hint of melancholy,

Fay x "

This. So much this

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"I'm a woman.

How do you think it should be written down in the abstract, when not referencing you, or another person who may wish other language?

I ask because the NHS guidance is to use the language the patient wants used.

The argument that is brought up in the press is about when talking in general terms. Although certain folx choose to misrepresent that.

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

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By *axtanMan
over a year ago

los Cristianos now

What? You need to get a job!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own "

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"*sigh*

Im not gonna give a young persons definition of the term "woman" or discuss gender here because Im sure I would just get shouted down. Whats the point?

However I do wanna say - Trans women: I see you, and recognise you as the women you are. Rock on girls!

I hope you can find people who will talk to you about your fears and your struggles, and that you find your peace with the world as it changes to become more inclusive of trans people.

Smiles, with a hint of melancholy,

Fay x "

Thank you

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a woman.

How do you think it should be written down in the abstract, when not referencing you, or another person who may wish other language?

I ask because the NHS guidance is to use the language the patient wants used.

The argument that is brought up in the press is about when talking in general terms. Although certain folx choose to misrepresent that."

We simply cannot pretend that women who were born women exist. This is a women's issue because it is not on the whole men who are having basically their identity as men taken away from them. As I said above we should absolutely treat people who are trans or non binary with respect but by respecting their right to have preferred pronouns or non gender specific language used we are taking away the rights of those who do want to be called a man or woman away.

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

[Removed by poster at 25/07/22 13:18:33]

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

Of course the same applies to cis men, but that often gets lost in all of this.

I say this as the parent of a trans teen, so apologies if I came across as mansplaining, but it's a topic that is very important to me

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Always happy when half the population aren't allowed to contribute

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"[Removed by poster at 25/07/22 13:18:33]"

I did see what you wrote and I am the relative of somebody who is trans so I absolutely accept there is difficulties and major struggles. However I do not accept that anybody who is struggling with how things are going now is somehow a dinosaur of the past, Or someone that shouldn't be listened to.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is a women?"

I love how everyone is going ballistic over the trans right discussion, quoting the human equivalent of a verruca that is Matt Walsh, talking about terfs and everything in between.

Yet still, missing the real issue at hand.

What is a woman?

What are women?

Ffs guys, can we focus on the real issue here of grammatically correct plurality.

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"I'm a woman.

How do you think it should be written down in the abstract, when not referencing you, or another person who may wish other language?

I ask because the NHS guidance is to use the language the patient wants used.

The argument that is brought up in the press is about when talking in general terms. Although certain folx choose to misrepresent that.

Who is pretending Cis Women do not exist?

Using inclusive language does not erase them, it still includes them, that's a part of it being inclusive.

Like I said NHS guidance is when dealing with the individual patient to use the terminology they wish used. So you will be called by the terms you want.

What is wrong with the generic language that applies to everyone language being generic and applying to everyone?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"What is a women?

I love how everyone is going ballistic over the trans right discussion, quoting the human equivalent of a verruca that is Matt Walsh, talking about terfs and everything in between.

Yet still, missing the real issue at hand.

What is a woman?

What are women?

Ffs guys, can we focus on the real issue here of grammatically correct plurality. "

Absolutely. Lets refocus the discussion!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a woman.

How do you think it should be written down in the abstract, when not referencing you, or another person who may wish other language?

I ask because the NHS guidance is to use the language the patient wants used.

The argument that is brought up in the press is about when talking in general terms. Although certain folx choose to misrepresent that.

Who is pretending Cis Women do not exist?

Using inclusive language does not erase them, it still includes them, that's a part of it being inclusive.

Like I said NHS guidance is when dealing with the individual patient to use the terminology they wish used. So you will be called by the terms you want.

What is wrong with the generic language that applies to everyone language being generic and applying to everyone?"

It's not inclusive language though that's the whole point.

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Somewhat inflammatory response. Mansplaining was not my intent. I have a trans teen at home and this matters a great deal to me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Not everything has to be inclusive. We do not always have to include everybody in everything and we don't and there are usually very valid reasons for this. Everybody should have equal rights and taking away the right of a woman to be referred to as a woman in medical literature is not equal. It is what a lot of people are not understanding.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Somewhat inflammatory response. Mansplaining was not my intent. I have a trans teen at home and this matters a great deal to me.

You're not included mate.

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

"Not everything has to be inclusive. We do not always have to include everybody in everything and we don't and there are usually very valid reasons for this. Everybody should have equal rights and taking away the right of a woman to be referred to as a woman in medical literature is not equal. It is what a lot of people are not understanding. "

Nobody is saying that you can't be referred to as a woman. That's literally not a thing that is happening. Where are you getting your information from?

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody is saying that you can't be referred to as a woman. That's literally not a thing that is happening. Where are you getting your information from?"

It flaming well is happening! Have you had a leaflet recently about cervical screening?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Somewhat inflammatory response. Mansplaining was not my intent. I have a trans teen at home and this matters a great deal to me.

What's inflammatory about it?

No aspect of men's rights is impacted in the same way that women's rights are in this whole area.

Despite my somewhat "terfy" views, I do genuinely care about my daughter's friends who have came out as a trans. They're kids after all.

So having concerns about women and their rights going forward does not mean that I give zero fucks about anyone else.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself"

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Somewhat inflammatory response. Mansplaining was not my intent. I have a trans teen at home and this matters a great deal to me.

What's inflammatory about it?

No aspect of men's rights is impacted in the same way that women's rights are in this whole area.

Despite my somewhat "terfy" views, I do genuinely care about my daughter's friends who have came out as a trans. They're kids after all.

So having concerns about women and their rights going forward does not mean that I give zero fucks about anyone else."

Exactly and brilliantly put.

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By *coobyBoobyDooWoman
over a year ago

Markfield

"Is it something religious?

Related to a men."

I see what you did there

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way. "

You say in one paragraph everyone should have equal right and then only cis women get to be called by the language they want.

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By *ackformore100Man
over a year ago

Tin town

I think it seems (I know my opinion is low value here) for you and other men / women who feel the same way, to be included you must change what you refer to yourself as.?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a woman.

How do you think it should be written down in the abstract, when not referencing you, or another person who may wish other language?

I ask because the NHS guidance is to use the language the patient wants used.

The argument that is brought up in the press is about when talking in general terms. Although certain folx choose to misrepresent that.

Who is pretending Cis Women do not exist?

Using inclusive language does not erase them, it still includes them, that's a part of it being inclusive.

Like I said NHS guidance is when dealing with the individual patient to use the terminology they wish used. So you will be called by the terms you want.

What is wrong with the generic language that applies to everyone language being generic and applying to everyone?"

Because, as I'm sure you know, many Cis women find it dehumanising to be referred to "birthing people" or "cervix-havers" or "menstruators". Particularly when the same is not happening to males. Often that language obscures the health issues eg cervical cancer - for those with little knowledge of their own bodies or poor English. Women, transmen and non-binary people IS inclusive to all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Slightly off tangent but a woman posted in the Lounge a while back looking for new prospective partners to chat to. She specifically asked for straight men.

Someone commented that it wasn't very inclusive.

Fucking unreal...

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Somewhat inflammatory response. Mansplaining was not my intent. I have a trans teen at home and this matters a great deal to me.

What's inflammatory about it?

No aspect of men's rights is impacted in the same way that women's rights are in this whole area.

Despite my somewhat "terfy" views, I do genuinely care about my daughter's friends who have came out as a trans. They're kids after all.

So having concerns about women and their rights going forward does not mean that I give zero fucks about anyone else."

Inflammatory in that you assume out of the gate that I'm mansplaining and my views on this are without merit

Again, I'm asking how extending rights to one of the most marginalised groups in society takes rights away from women?

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By *dventurous biMan
over a year ago

tesside

"I is a woman.

Or I was the last time I checked

Happy to pop round if you need a second opinion

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way.

You say in one paragraph everyone should have equal right and then only cis women get to be called by the language they want."

You are obviously misunderstanding what having equal rights means.

Treating people equally means that you treat everyone the same regardless of their race, sex, social status, disability, religion, or anything else. In a community, if everyone is treated equally then everyone should be able to work together, solve problems, feel safe and cared for.

That also includes women who want to be referred to in a medical sense as women. As with everything including disability rights treating people equally sometimes meaning treating them differently.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Slightly off tangent but a woman posted in the Lounge a while back looking for new prospective partners to chat to. She specifically asked for straight men.

Someone commented that it wasn't very inclusive.

Fucking unreal..."

And the one about if you are a lesbian are you transphobic if you won't meet a TV/TS.

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way.

You say in one paragraph everyone should have equal right and then only cis women get to be called by the language they want.

You are obviously misunderstanding what having equal rights means.

That also includes women who want to be referred to in a medical sense as women. As with everything including disability rights treating people equally sometimes meaning treating them differently. "

But not Trans Men and Non-Binary people that do not want to be referred to that way, because that is literally the outcome of your insistence of keeping women in the literature?

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

"Again, I'm asking how extending rights to one of the most marginalised groups in society takes rights away from women?

It literally doesn't. But also refusing to support such a marginalised group, well to me that's not okay is it?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women.

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women."

not at all, when you use Cis you are specifically talking about people whose gender matches their assigned sex at birth.

If you don't use any of the prefixes you are including both Cis and Trans people

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Somewhat inflammatory response. Mansplaining was not my intent. I have a trans teen at home and this matters a great deal to me.

What's inflammatory about it?

No aspect of men's rights is impacted in the same way that women's rights are in this whole area.

Despite my somewhat "terfy" views, I do genuinely care about my daughter's friends who have came out as a trans. They're kids after all.

So having concerns about women and their rights going forward does not mean that I give zero fucks about anyone else.

Inflammatory in that you assume out of the gate that I'm mansplaining and my views on this are without merit

Again, I'm asking how extending rights to one of the most marginalised groups in society takes rights away from women?

The right to have a female-bodied person as a healthcare practitioner

The right to single sex spaces

Are often cited.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I'm a woman.

Why is it threatening?

Women are a subset of people with a cervix (in fact there are women without them). Mothers are a subset of people who give birth.

It detracts nothing, it just opens the door to others who are historically excluded.

Would you really not get your smear because it's offered to people with a cervix?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way.

You say in one paragraph everyone should have equal right and then only cis women get to be called by the language they want.

You are obviously misunderstanding what having equal rights means.

That also includes women who want to be referred to in a medical sense as women. As with everything including disability rights treating people equally sometimes meaning treating them differently.

But not Trans Men and Non-Binary people that do not want to be referred to that way, because that is literally the outcome of your insistence of keeping women in the literature?"

On an individual level if they choose to be referred to with different pronouns or different language then they should be. However the word woman and man should not be taken out of anything just to accommodate some people. In the same way we do not take out stairs in buildings So that disabled people don't feel offended or marginalised. What we do instead is make sure that suitable adjustments and provision is made so they can use the service/building as easily as possible and in a way as to not discriminate or exclude them.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way.

You say in one paragraph everyone should have equal right and then only cis women get to be called by the language they want.

You are obviously misunderstanding what having equal rights means.

That also includes women who want to be referred to in a medical sense as women. As with everything including disability rights treating people equally sometimes meaning treating them differently.

But not Trans Men and Non-Binary people that do not want to be referred to that way, because that is literally the outcome of your insistence of keeping women in the literature?"

I suggested that "women, trans men and non-binary people" was inclusive of all. Would you oppose that?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a woman.

Why is it threatening?

Women are a subset of people with a cervix (in fact there are women without them). Mothers are a subset of people who give birth.

It detracts nothing, it just opens the door to others who are historically excluded.

Would you really not get your smear because it's offered to people with a cervix?"

So if a woman wants to be referred to as a mother she shouldn't be because it might offend some people? This is about rights for some but not many.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women."

Nope. Saying "men and trans men" is like saying "us normal people and you weirdos".

There's no need. It's the 21st century ffs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women.

Nope. Saying "men and trans men" is like saying "us normal people and you weirdos".

There's no need. It's the 21st century ffs"

No it really isn't! This is why I detest this whole argument because anybody who has concerns or thinks things should be done differently is somehow against transpeople. I can't see anybody who has referred to anyone who is trans or non binary as weird on this thread.

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"I'm a woman.

Why is it threatening?

Women are a subset of people with a cervix (in fact there are women without them). Mothers are a subset of people who give birth.

It detracts nothing, it just opens the door to others who are historically excluded.

Would you really not get your smear because it's offered to people with a cervix?

So if a woman wants to be referred to as a mother she shouldn't be because it might offend some people? This is about rights for some but not many."

Again (3rd or 4th time) on an individual level the NHS guidance is to always use the terminology the patient wants.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women.

Nope. Saying "men and trans men" is like saying "us normal people and you weirdos".

There's no need. It's the 21st century ffs"

Should we also not refer to people as disabled because that's like saying they're not normal or weirdos? This is ridiculous.

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

Anything apparently

Whatever floats their boat. I use the female toilets on site because the mens is disgusting. Been caught once by a woman and I just said I identified as a woman. Never heard anything of it so I guess I got away with it

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody is saying that you can't be referred to as a woman. That's literally not a thing that is happening. Where are you getting your information from?

It flaming well is happening! Have you had a leaflet recently about cervical screening? "

Huh, im curious (not trying to make a point or argue, Im genuinely interested!):

What terms would you be happy for the leaflet to use? If I give you some options, maybe you can say which ones you like/dont like and why? Anyone chip in or add terms that you would be happy/not happy with

People with a cervix.

Women and people with a cervix.

Cis-women and people with a cervix.

Women

Women and those who are biologically female.

Cis-women and some gender minorities.

Most women and other people who have cervixes.

Women (and those who have cervixes)

(Anyone who doesnt know what cis- means: it means not trans. I.e. a cis-woman is someone who was born female and is still female

)

There, Ive tried to give a good range. Let me know! Im curious, and probably not gonna answer... Just interested.

Fay x

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women.

Nope. Saying "men and trans men" is like saying "us normal people and you weirdos".

There's no need. It's the 21st century ffs

Should we also not refer to people as disabled because that's like saying they're not normal or weirdos? This is ridiculous. "

False equivalency

The equivalency you are looking for is if someone said you didn't need to ever use the word abled to describe people who do not have impairment.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"I'm a woman.

Why is it threatening?

Women are a subset of people with a cervix (in fact there are women without them). Mothers are a subset of people who give birth.

It detracts nothing, it just opens the door to others who are historically excluded.

Would you really not get your smear because it's offered to people with a cervix?

So if a woman wants to be referred to as a mother she shouldn't be because it might offend some people? This is about rights for some but not many."

No, I didn't say that, and I'm not sure where anyone has seriously suggested that people can't self identify.

You go to a service for birthing people, excited to become a mother, with everyone around you celebrating your impending motherhood.

And it also accommodates a trans man who is looking forward to giving birth, and will hopefully be celebrated in his impending parenthood.

Everyone wins, except people who want to kick off culture wars.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Nobody is saying that you can't be referred to as a woman. That's literally not a thing that is happening. Where are you getting your information from?

It flaming well is happening! Have you had a leaflet recently about cervical screening?

Huh, im curious (not trying to make a point or argue, Im genuinely interested!):

People with a cervix.

Women and people with a cervix.

Cis-women and people with a cervix.

Women

Women and those who are biologically female.

Cis-women and some gender minorities.

Most women and other people who have cervixes.

Women (and those who have cervixes)

(Anyone who doesnt know what cis- means: it means not trans. I.e. a cis-woman is someone who was born female and is still female

)

There, Ive tried to give a good range. Let me know! Im curious, and probably not gonna answer... Just interested.

Fay x "

There is absolutely nothing wrong with how they have always been worded. Nobody had an issue with this, People understood there were people that didn't come under these categories and need to be treated sensitively and differently and it worked fine.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *ohn KanakaMan
over a year ago

Not all that North of North London

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way.

You say in one paragraph everyone should have equal right and then only cis women get to be called by the language they want.

You are obviously misunderstanding what having equal rights means.

That also includes women who want to be referred to in a medical sense as women. As with everything including disability rights treating people equally sometimes meaning treating them differently.

But not Trans Men and Non-Binary people that do not want to be referred to that way, because that is literally the outcome of your insistence of keeping women in the literature?

I think given the constant struggles disabled people have with regards to accessibility (try catching the tube in a wheelchair) that analogy isn't making the point you think it is. The reality is disabled people are often left feeling like second class people in a society that often does nothing more than the bare minimum to attempt to include them

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

"Nobody is taking anything away from cis women

Giving other people rights doesn't take away your own

Always happy when a man pops up to explain this to us.

Thank you Sir.

Somewhat inflammatory response. Mansplaining was not my intent. I have a trans teen at home and this matters a great deal to me.

What's inflammatory about it?

No aspect of men's rights is impacted in the same way that women's rights are in this whole area.

Despite my somewhat "terfy" views, I do genuinely care about my daughter's friends who have came out as a trans. They're kids after all.

So having concerns about women and their rights going forward does not mean that I give zero fucks about anyone else.

Inflammatory in that you assume out of the gate that I'm mansplaining and my views on this are without merit

Again, I'm asking how extending rights to one of the most marginalised groups in society takes rights away from women?

The right to have a female-bodied person as a healthcare practitioner

The right to single sex spaces

Are often cited. "

You absolutely have the right to ask for a female doctor, but the NHS are not obliged to provide one. Obviously they try to accommodate as best they can.

I suppose you would happily share a public bathroom with a big, bearded trans man, since that is the logical conclusion of maintaining single sex spaces based on birth assignment of gender?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I'm a woman.

Why is it threatening?

Women are a subset of people with a cervix (in fact there are women without them). Mothers are a subset of people who give birth.

It detracts nothing, it just opens the door to others who are historically excluded.

Would you really not get your smear because it's offered to people with a cervix?

So if a woman wants to be referred to as a mother she shouldn't be because it might offend some people? This is about rights for some but not many.

No, I didn't say that, and I'm not sure where anyone has seriously suggested that people can't self identify.

You go to a service for birthing people, excited to become a mother, with everyone around you celebrating your impending motherhood.

And it also accommodates a trans man who is looking forward to giving birth, and will hopefully be celebrated in his impending parenthood.

Everyone wins, except people who want to kick off culture wars. "
No not everybody wins. Are you deliberately trying to pretend there are no concerns or issues?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The heterophobes are out in force today

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women.

Nope. Saying "men and trans men" is like saying "us normal people and you weirdos".

There's no need. It's the 21st century ffs

It's more like autistic and normal.

Cis and trans is like neurodivergent and neurotypical.

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *oreador8Man
over a year ago

Huddersfield

"I'm a woman.

Why is it threatening?

Women are a subset of people with a cervix (in fact there are women without them). Mothers are a subset of people who give birth.

It detracts nothing, it just opens the door to others who are historically excluded.

Would you really not get your smear because it's offered to people with a cervix?

So if a woman wants to be referred to as a mother she shouldn't be because it might offend some people? This is about rights for some but not many.

No, I didn't say that, and I'm not sure where anyone has seriously suggested that people can't self identify.

You go to a service for birthing people, excited to become a mother, with everyone around you celebrating your impending motherhood.

And it also accommodates a trans man who is looking forward to giving birth, and will hopefully be celebrated in his impending parenthood.

Everyone wins, except people who want to kick off culture wars. "

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *annaBeStrongMan
over a year ago

wokingham

"I'm a woman.

Why is it threatening?

Women are a subset of people with a cervix (in fact there are women without them). Mothers are a subset of people who give birth.

It detracts nothing, it just opens the door to others who are historically excluded.

Would you really not get your smear because it's offered to people with a cervix?

So if a woman wants to be referred to as a mother she shouldn't be because it might offend some people? This is about rights for some but not many.

No, I didn't say that, and I'm not sure where anyone has seriously suggested that people can't self identify.

You go to a service for birthing people, excited to become a mother, with everyone around you celebrating your impending motherhood.

And it also accommodates a trans man who is looking forward to giving birth, and will hopefully be celebrated in his impending parenthood.

Everyone wins, except people who want to kick off culture wars. No not everybody wins. Are you deliberately trying to pretend there are no concerns or issues? "

Genuinely, what would be the issue in that scenario?

(closed, thread got too big)

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By *heNerdyFembyWoman
over a year ago

Eastbourne (she/they)

"Using the term "cis" for men or women is a bit like saying "egg omelette". There are men, there are women, there are trans men and there are trans women.

Nope. Saying "men and trans men" is like saying "us normal people and you weirdos".

There's no need. It's the 21st century ffs

It's more like autistic and normal.

Cis and trans is like neurodivergent and neurotypical."

(closed, thread got too big)

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

We are not talking about including everyone, we are talking about including the people it affects.

You say we should all have equal rights, but you also say that trans men and non-binary people don't get to have the same treatment as Cis women to have language which includes them.

Your own argument contradicts itself

It doesn't contradict itself at all you are just deliberately choosing to see it that way.

You say in one paragraph everyone should have equal right and then only cis women get to be called by the language they want.

You are obviously misunderstanding what having equal rights means.

That also includes women who want to be referred to in a medical sense as women. As with everything including disability rights treating people equally sometimes meaning treating them differently.

But not Trans Men and Non-Binary people that do not want to be referred to that way, because that is literally the outcome of your insistence of keeping women in the literature?

We regularly try and use the tube as disabled people thank you.

We don't feel like 2nd class citizens when provision is made for us, We do not feel marginalised when provision is made for us. We do not however expect the rest of society do not have buildings with stairs, All for them to completely change how they live their lives to accommodate us. What we want is to be treated fairly and equally When that happens we do not feel like 2nd class citizens at all and the same applies to any minority or marginalised groups.