FabSwingers.com forum: How do you help someone

By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

...who appears to not respond to efforts to help?

I'll explain the outline. Our son (19) has been struggling with mental health issues for a while. This has not been helped by various events/family issues outside of mine and Mr KC's control/influence. He dropped out of uni (online/lockdown education did not suit) and had a bad experience at the job he took afterwards. He now has a PT job two evenings a week and he struggles with this.

We've obviously supported him as best as we can. Encouraged him to seek medical advice (which he didn't do for many months). He was prescribed medication (which sits untouched) and given a self referral number for CBT (which he hasn't called). We've shared details of local support groups aimed at young men (which he doesn't want to go to). We are always here to talk to.

We're at a loss as to how else we can help. He lives with us and his 5yo sister and so the immense difference in how we need to parent her vs him is also a challenge.

I've turned out at 1am etc. many times to deal with serious MH breakdowns but each episode, he won't go to the crisis team etc and I can't make him. I/we am/are his crisis team and in all honesty, it's becoming something we struggle to do (and I hate saying that).

People who know us will know that the past year to 18 months has been really difficult for lots of other reasons and I in particular (Mrs KC) am responsible for a bunch of very difficult stuff that continues to peck at my head but that I cannot absolve myself of.

Finally, Mr KC and I support his decision to leave uni and we continue to support him in looking for alternative routes to do what he wants to do and is very talented in. With the best possible intention, it doesn't matter* what he wants to do in life, we just want him to be okay.

*By that, I mean we don't believe he MUST take a certain route or do a certain thing. There's no pressure from us to go down any particular route job/education wise.

Sorry for the lengthy post, all suggestions welcome.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

So sorry to read this. It must be extremely upsetting and frustrating for you. If it's any consolation you sound like you are doing the very best that you can do. Unfortunately with mental health, it's very difficult to help someone until they actually take steps to want to help themselves.

Sorry I don't have any advice but I hope that brighter days are ahead for you all and your son finds a happier place.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

My immediate suggestion is this...... ( I'm not claiming it's THE solution )

Get help for yourselves. Find a family group or therapist or a whatever team that BOTH of you can talk to even if it's just to air your concerns.

Your son doesn't have to be included initially or even know that's where you both go.

You will be getting sound advice.

Good luck to you both ...... I hope all is resolved soon..

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

In brief I am saying you can support HIM but YOU TWO need support. Even if it's only when to step up and when to back off..... etc ..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 06/02/22 16:17:21]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Why does he have the part time job? Could he quit and just chill for a while until he feels better? Or is it a family finance thing?

Has he got hobbies that he is still interested in? Friends he can chat to even if only online gaming etc?

(No need to answer these questions if you don't want to, just some thoughts.)

Maybe he just needs to 'be' for a while. If he knows you are there for him maybe he will find himself again.

If people don't want to talk or accept help, we can't force them.

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

I agree with Granny Crumpet.

https://www.google.com/url?q=https://www.mind.org.uk/information-support/helping-someone-else/carers-friends-family-coping-support/support-for-you/&sa=U&ved=2ahUKEwiMyMqevev1AhXNN8AKHZfBBzYQFnoECAoQAg&usg=AOvVaw0BiICbqUmiA557zUCAjvCp

This MIND, they don't just offer help and support for sufferers but their carers to, which is exactly what you are.

Google local resources for support and therapy for yourselves

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

"Why does he have the part time job? Could he quit and just chill for a while until he feels better? Or is it a family finance thing?

Has he got hobbies that he is still interested in? Friends he can chat to even if only online gaming etc?

(No need to answer these questions if you don't want to, just some thoughts.)

Maybe he just needs to 'be' for a while. If he knows you are there for him maybe he will find himself again.

If people don't want to talk or accept help, we can't force them.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

Please don't feel bad because you are struggling, especially as you are his crisis team. One of my kids as a congenital condition and IBD, this has been resolved now, then we found out the reason behind it all 23 years later.

As for the medication, I was terrified when I found 100's of tablets hidden in various places, but, and it's not a nice but, this is quite common as that is something they have control over.

Does he have a support circle outside of family? Sometimes kids take more notice of their friends rather than parents.

Granny Crumpet is right you need to get support for you as well, I know how o was affected. In some way that is what you are doing here but it's not the same as meeting someone in person and telling them about it.

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By *jorkishMan
over a year ago

Seaforth

"...who appears to not respond to efforts to help?

We're at a loss as to how else we can help. He lives with us and his 5yo sister and so the immense difference in how we need to parent her vs him is also a challenge.

*By that, I mean we don't believe he MUST take a certain route or do a certain thing. There's no pressure from us to go down any particular route job/education wise.

Sorry for the lengthy post, all suggestions welcome. "

There maybe support groups near you that are comprised of parents like yourself, going through exactly what you are going through now. It's worth a try

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

"In brief I am saying you can support HIM but YOU TWO need support. Even if it's only when to step up and when to back off..... etc .. "

This.

You need to work through your own strategies. You say you have a lot going on, which you probably need to process, too.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Why does he have the part time job? Could he quit and just chill for a while until he feels better? Or is it a family finance thing?

Has he got hobbies that he is still interested in? Friends he can chat to even if only online gaming etc?

(No need to answer these questions if you don't want to, just some thoughts.)

Maybe he just needs to 'be' for a while. If he knows you are there for him maybe he will find himself again.

If people don't want to talk or accept help, we can't force them.

He has a PT job because he wanted to have money in his pocket to do things with his friends. He works 2x 5hr evening shifts cleaning in a sports centre. It's (in his words) mind numbingly easy, he doesn't have to think about it, he just follows the daily schedule. It also gets him out of the house. Outside of this he either spends all his time in his room or goes to the student house of one of his friends and holes up there.

He has friends but he often struggles to get out to do things they invite him to. They support him, they haven't left him behind. He has a female friend that he describes as a FWB and she seems very nice and supportive. I've met her once on a video call and once at 2am when I came to talk him down from a crisis at her house.

We aren't forcing him to do or be anything. But the number of suicidal and self harm episodes are what concern us most and we are trying to help him with. Listening to your son screaming down the phone at 1am (I thought he was being murdered) is not something we recommend.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Oh and hobbies, he has pretty much stopped all of them. Skateboarding, making music, playing his various instruments etc.

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By *ooo wet tight hornyWoman
over a year ago

lancashire

I really do feel for you, your family and your son OP. I have lost people through Mental Health, these people had seeked help too. I agree with others in the fact you and your hubby could do with getting some support to help you deal with this, it's an emotional strain for you all I'm sure. Your son is an Adult and unfortunately cannot be forced by your selves to take treatment. Have you spoken to the Mental Health crisis team on him been sectioned under the Mental Health act? Maybe he really does need time out from any thing that causes him to feel the pressure that will contribute to this, maybe having paper and pens at hand for him to write down his thoughts would help? I wish you all the best and that your Son recovers from all of this that he is feeling.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Oh KC, i don't have any advice, but just wanted to show some support. I like Granny's thought of support for you and Mr KC.. I'm wondering if there is a group you could both join for parents in similar situations?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What about a support animal? Would it be feasible to have a dog?

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By *andlingswingersCouple
over a year ago

Woodbridge

This is a horrible situation to be in. I used to work in MH so believe me, I've seen this. The biggest problem is that there is a very fine line between being supportive and enabling. He doesn't have a job, he lives at home, some of the comments recommend just leaving him to 'chill' aka sit on his arse doing nothing while you support him for an indefinite period. Which may not be a financially viable option for you, as well as the other problem, which is that MH problems don't cure themselves and have a nasty tendency to escalate, especially when the person having them doesn't have anything to literally take their minds off the problem.

What would happen if you weren't there? Because not to mince words, one day you won't be.

You can't force people to accept help but if this situation escalates, and I can't see at first glance why it won't, then a degree of force may well be the option that a court decides on if he is sectioned.

If he's old enough to go to uni then he is old enough for a grown-up conversation. That you are not his baby-sitter. That there is help, care, love and support and there is also taking-the-Micky. That you have to go to work to pay the bills and that is called real-life, because cornflakes do not buy themselves. That MH issues are real and they are horrible and they do not fix themselves and you really would rather not see him hanging from the banisters or sedated into immobility to stop him trying to kill himself, which is something I've seen enough of for one life-time. That talking therapies are infinitely less damaging than chemical intervention, or a psychotic episode and being banged up in a police cell while they try to find an MH professional out of hours once they've recognised that it's an MH incident and not someone off their face or just acting the arse.

None of this is easy. But you know that already. I hope you find a way through it, all of you. You absolutely definitely need help and support to do so and luckily it is there. Look-up your local MH Trust and have a chat with them - they can at the very least signpost you to some support.

I'm sorry if this sounds blunt. It is. There is no easy way through MH.

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By *rMojoRisinMan
over a year ago

Sheffield

"My immediate suggestion is this...... ( I'm not claiming it's THE solution )

Get help for yourselves. Find a family group or therapist or a whatever team that BOTH of you can talk to even if it's just to air your concerns.

Your son doesn't have to be included initially or even know that's where you both go.

You will be getting sound advice.

Good luck to you both ...... I hope all is resolved soon.. "

This!

Family therapy to support yourselves, and your daughter as it will be having an impact on her. Your son is an adult now, he will seek help when he is ready or the decision may be taken out of his hands if he’s poorly enough.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Why does he have the part time job? Could he quit and just chill for a while until he feels better? Or is it a family finance thing?

Has he got hobbies that he is still interested in? Friends he can chat to even if only online gaming etc?

(No need to answer these questions if you don't want to, just some thoughts.)

Maybe he just needs to 'be' for a while. If he knows you are there for him maybe he will find himself again.

If people don't want to talk or accept help, we can't force them.

Apologies, I didn't literally mean you are forcing him to do anything.

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By *hrista BellendWoman
over a year ago

surrounded by twinkly lights

Have a Google on what young people mental health mentorship schemes there are available in your area x

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By *iss_FickleWoman
over a year ago

Cambridgeshire

How do you help someone, who isn't actively helping themselves, despite your efforts and with some tools being at hand, but never tried/used...

To be honest, you've done everything you can and I'm not sure what more he thinks you can do or does he even expect you to do more.

Mental health is complicated, but insight is key and either your son lacks true insight into his own mental health problems - so maybe that's why he's reluctant to take meds or engage with services himself... &/or he lacks insight into the full effect it's having on the family - maybe you've shielded him from the toll it's taking.

As others have said, you really need to look after your mental health too. Supporting someone is never easy, but you still have to look after you!

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By *iss_FickleWoman
over a year ago

Cambridgeshire

"This is a horrible situation to be in. I used to work in MH so believe me, I've seen this. The biggest problem is that there is a very fine line between being supportive and enabling. He doesn't have a job, he lives at home, some of the comments recommend just leaving him to 'chill' aka sit on his arse doing nothing while you support him for an indefinite period. Which may not be a financially viable option for you, as well as the other problem, which is that MH problems don't cure themselves and have a nasty tendency to escalate, especially when the person having them doesn't have anything to literally take their minds off the problem.

What would happen if you weren't there? Because not to mince words, one day you won't be.

I'm sorry if this sounds blunt. It is. There is no easy way through MH."

This is sound advice

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By *hancer666Man
over a year ago

Redbourn

"Have a Google on what young people mental health mentorship schemes there are available in your area x

Agree, and speak to your GP, get referred and/or speak to your LA , they usually have mental health teams point you in right direction. I'm not sure asking for help on a forum like this is a good idea, and it won't provide you with any direction as advice will come from all angles, most of whom are not professionals in relevant fields and citing personal situations doesn't change this necessarily either. Wish you luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hello. I've been in this situation with my now 18yo. It is so tough. I really feel for you. Support for both of you is absolutely a priority as others have suggested. I hope you can find it in your area or online.

My son has Aspergers and cancelled GCSEs in 2020 sent him into a downwards spiral. He was suicidal but CAHMS were of no help. He dropped out of college twice. I'm a single mum and I was at my wits end. It took him well over a year to come out of it.

What helped him in the end was just letting him be. Finding little things that made him smile. Not expecting anything of him. Not suggesting options. Just giving him space to find his way and see that life was worth living one step at a time. He had to get there on his own. Your son has a job. That's a brilliant thing to be able to do despite feeling as bad as he does.

I don't think there's anything else you can do until your son asks for it. And taking care of yourselves and your daughter is important. You're keeping it all together so if you fall apart, that will affect everyone else. Take care of you first.

My inbox is open if you would like to talk.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"In brief I am saying you can support HIM but YOU TWO need support. Even if it's only when to step up and when to back off..... etc .. "

Thank you, Granny. Yes, I do agree this might help. We can access counselling through a work thing so might look into that. Unfortunately the work counselling would only support out son if he'd remained in FT education. Have been tempted to tell a porky pie on that front...

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By *ecadent_DevonMan
over a year ago

Okehampton

Do you have any inkling of what the underlying cause might be? Whether it is genetic predisposition or has been brought about by external vectors?

Having been a 19 year old man myself, I can only say that for some of us it is hard to know what role life has decided for you, sometimes we have a wallow and we wait for someone to lead us, in the end we mostly discover that the solution to our problems lies within and not without.

There’s loads of a good advice in this thread and I know it will be difficult for you to balance patience with the need to resolve, I wish you well.

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By *ed VoluptaWoman
over a year ago

Wirral.

Oh, KC. I've no advice for you, I'm afraid. I couldn't think of anything more than you're doing already. But there's a hug, a mug of coffee & an ear whenever you need it

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By *icketysplitsWoman
over a year ago

Way over Yonder, that's where I'm bound

Have a look at The Mix mental health charity. This may be a softer way in for him.

We've had a similar situation, with a very slightly younger person. We're not out of the woods yet but taking a more direct/tough love approach has shifted things a bit and they are engaging with us again, leaving their room and took the initiative to find a job.

We have strategies for each type of behaviour. Some we ignore, or acknowledge and let them know how it affects others. Some it's love-bombing and others it's not tolerated/tough love.

It's tiring and sad but the good moments provide real hope.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m so sorry

. That must be so hard.

I agree with GC, about getting help for all of you, and Midnights suggestion of a dog if that’s possible?

Don’t underestimate the importance of him just knowing that you are there for him.

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By *otMe66Man
over a year ago

Terra Firma

Feeling you haven't resolved, fixed, helped, made things better or that you have failed is where the hill you are climbing gets steep.

Knowing you have done all you can helps with the relief and as mentioned by wiser people than me here, look for support that helps you cope with disruption, support that helps you put things into perspective and hopefully that will give you the tools to help you, help him.

I wish you and your family peace and love.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Do you have any inkling of what the underlying cause might be? Whether it is genetic predisposition or has been brought about by external vectors?

There’s loads of a good advice in this thread and I know it will be difficult for you to balance patience with the need to resolve, I wish you well. "

Not sure on the cause. There might be some genetic predisposition (his dad's side) but it's hard to know really. The past 12-18 months has definitely involved some very serious and unpleasant episodes within the wider family which undoubtedly had an impact on him (as well as the rest of us). He has a poor body image too (he is quite short height-wise, very slim).

Thank you for your thoughts.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In brief I am saying you can support HIM but YOU TWO need support. Even if it's only when to step up and when to back off..... etc .. "

Granny has hit the nail on the head.

I've family going through similar situs - you both need help and support otherwise the situation will bring you both down at some point and not necessarily at the same time. Very hard going.

I wish you all well xx

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Re: dogs, we are reluctant to get any kind of pet in case he is unable to take the responsibility. I would struggle to take a dog for walks being a wheelchair user and Mr KC and I simply don't have the time to devote to a pet. We both work FT etc.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Thank you for all the comments and suggestions everyone, we appreciate it.

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By *avie65Man
over a year ago

In the west.

I have tried to guide some of my students to Headspace. There is a website and app.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In brief I am saying you can support HIM but YOU TWO need support. Even if it's only when to step up and when to back off..... etc .. "

This

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Ultimately you can't help someone if their not ready to be helped.

I know it's been a really difficult time for you and as Granny said I think the most important thing right now is support for you and Mr KC.

Speaking from experience just because he doesn't feel ready to do any of the things but might help him right now does not mean that will always be the case so definitely worth still encouraging him to take medication and seek medical help. Xx

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By *viatrixWoman
over a year ago

Redhill

I have no practical advice I am afraid, but I am seeing so many MH issues in young people. My son is 17 and the first lockdown affected him so much.

Just big big hugs for you, lovely, and hoping that you find the right solution for your family.

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By *wisted999Man
over a year ago

North Bucks

Poor chap is at the time of his life where all the pressure is on him to find his purpose. The last two years at his age should have been about enjoying himself and cutting loose. Instead he has had to cope with the pandemic and all it’s limitations.

He also now lives in the superficial tik tok world where if he’s not perfect or making bank then he’s not making it in life.

The pressure these young adults are under is horrible.

My Dad tried to fix my issues by throwing money at me where all I needed was to find where I belonged.

I hope you find him some help that works for him soon

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"...who appears to not respond to efforts to help?

We're at a loss as to how else we can help. He lives with us and his 5yo sister and so the immense difference in how we need to parent her vs him is also a challenge.

*By that, I mean we don't believe he MUST take a certain route or do a certain thing. There's no pressure from us to go down any particular route job/education wise.

Sorry for the lengthy post, all suggestions welcome. "

Feel free to pm me, dealt with very similar.

You are doing all the right things, definitely don’t project any of your ambitions onto him, which you aren’t , just make sure you don’t inadvertently.

All you can do is live and support the best you can, crisis team aren’t much help anyway.

Finishing education often makes a huge positive change to kids MH , good luck

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

As someone who went through almost exactly this fairly recently with my own 19 year old son I truly empathise! It wasn’t until my son hit rock bottom that he got help despite apparently being depressed for a very long time.

Does your son have a good group of friends? My son has a great group and he knows he can talk to them. He did CBT which helped loads and was also diagnosed with ADHD.

Every child is different so what worked with my son may not work with yours but it sounds like you’re doing all the right things, I just tried my best to let him know he could tell me anything but ultimately they must want the treatment.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

When I was at my wit's end with my mother's mental health problems many years ago I went and spoke to her gp. Obviously they couldn't tell me anything or speak to her but they did give me valuable advice. Could you speak to your own doctor for advice and support?

This is only from my own experience and might not apply to you but my mother came to rely on her mental health problems as a way of manipulation and as an avoidance tactic. She never, ever sought help and I really wish my father had the strength to insist on it.

Apart from that I sympathise it's bloody tough and the impact on the wider family shouldn't be underestimated or overlooked.

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By *wist my nipplesCouple
over a year ago

North East Scotland, mostly

Oh Mrs KC, I'm so sorry you're going through this.

As others have said - you can't make him do anything. You can't fix it. And that is a very tough place to be.

All you can do right now is look after yourself and continue to let your son know that you are there to support him.

You have been through so much and you are still standing which quite frankly is amazing. You are a bloody incredible human.

Mrs TMN x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry to read this hugs hopefully things get better

This would probably be a final last resort’s but if you feel someone’s a danger to them self you can phone nhs mental health line and have someone come out and evaluate them to be sectioned

I say final last resort as I don’t know off the circumstances I am just saying if it’s so bad

I will say if you do they may resent you in the short run but be thankful in the long run

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Thank you again all above.

Yes, he has friends and he does hang out with them sometimes but he also doesn't take up their invites often. He has a lady friend (described as FWB) who seems lovely and supportive of him. She encourages him to go out etc.

He has spoken to us recently about possible signs of ADHD, which we suggested he should speak to his doc about, but getting him to contact the doc is a different thing. So far, doctors have refused to speak to us or even book appointments if Mr KC or I have phoned up. Considering Mr KC has booked appointments for me before and I book them for my Dad, we find it insane that they won't book if one of his parents rings on his behalf. It's an ongoing saga.

Balancing his needs with the fact we have a highly perceptive 5yo to think about too is adding to the challenge (plus my 82yo Dad with dementia and other stuff too).

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Thank you again all above.

Balancing his needs with the fact we have a highly perceptive 5yo to think about too is adding to the challenge (plus my 82yo Dad with dementia and other stuff too). "

Is "tough love" an option? I don't mean issue an ultimatum rather explaining the wider implications of his refusal to seek help. If he had a broken leg you'd explain the consequences of refusing a plaster cast.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Thank you again all above.

Balancing his needs with the fact we have a highly perceptive 5yo to think about too is adding to the challenge (plus my 82yo Dad with dementia and other stuff too). "

That seems odd the surgery not allowing you to book appointments on his behalf

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By *oxyFemme72Woman
over a year ago

Glasgow

Wow - you and your family are going through so much xxxxx

Have you thought of writing him a letter and saying what you've just shared with us? It's a tricky one because you don't want him to feel guilt for how you are feeling but by the sound of things, he could so with at least beginning to understand what others in the house are going through

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Thank you again all above.

Balancing his needs with the fact we have a highly perceptive 5yo to think about too is adding to the challenge (plus my 82yo Dad with dementia and other stuff too).

We have tried that, yes. It didn't do much to help.

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

"My immediate suggestion is this...... ( I'm not claiming it's THE solution )

Get help for yourselves. Find a family group or therapist or a whatever team that BOTH of you can talk to even if it's just to air your concerns.

Your son doesn't have to be included initially or even know that's where you both go.

You will be getting sound advice.

Good luck to you both ...... I hope all is resolved soon.. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hi, I'm sorry to hear this. I'm a psychiatric nurse working in a rehab unit in Cambridge. I think one of the most important things is to seek advice/therapy for yourselves as parents. It's a massive strain on you guys. Does your son have a diagnosis? Yes the main thing is that your son has to accept he maybe mentally unwell and accept the help he needs as well as medication.

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Thank you again all above.

Balancing his needs with the fact we have a highly perceptive 5yo to think about too is adding to the challenge (plus my 82yo Dad with dementia and other stuff too).

We have tried that, yes. It didn't do much to help. "

I'm sorry

. I completely understand and sympathise which I know is no flaming help. I genuinely don't know where else you can go with this apart from as Granny suggested get help for yourself.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have child who breaks my heart, and probably her own, with how unhappy she is, and it at times seems like a vicious circle.

I quite often do not know what to do, or where to turn.

If you ever want a chat, please message me x

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Hi, I'm sorry to hear this. I'm a psychiatric nurse working in a rehab unit in Cambridge. I think one of the most important things is to seek advice/therapy for yourselves as parents. It's a massive strain on you guys. Does your son have a diagnosis? Yes the main thing is that your son has to accept he maybe mentally unwell and accept the help he needs as well as medication."

Thank you. He doesn't have any diagnosis other than severe depression and anxiety. He has had one phone appointment with his doctor recently (which occurred after a previous attempt during which he had a breakdown and the GP overhead it. I spoke to them on that occasion and only then did they seem to take any action).

He was prescribed an antidepressant, which has remained in the package. He says he's going to start it tomorrow (over 2wks after it was given). He said the same last Monday. We'll continue to encourage him. Also to phone the CBT number (which he was given on the same day as the prescription).

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By *inky-MinxWoman
over a year ago

Grantham

In my experience it is virtually impossible to help someone that does not want the help.

Maybe taking the advice of seeking help for yourselves, thereby leading by example, could flip the switch that refuses help?

Also, it sounds like he has had a lot to contend with, university etc. and needs to slump to the bottom, as it were, before he can start to build himself up again.

As long as he knows you are there for him, no matter what his life choices, that will help. And from what you have said you definitely are there for him

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Keep supporting him though. It's very difficult to help someone when they are not ready to accept it. The antidepressants will take around two weeks to see any difference if at all depending on the dose and medication. Not all meds work so it may be a case of trying several

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By *hloetTV/TS
over a year ago

Nottingham

Tough love - force him to fend for himself. It will push him to confront his issues and over come them in order to get by. It might sound heartless but allowing him to make poor choices might do him more harm than good. Speaking as someone with MH I know the best thing to focus my mind is financial and work obligations. I feel better when I'm busy.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

It sounds to me like he's trying to sort himself out by refusing all help from others. That, all suggestions, meds, sports, interventions that are seemingly pushed on him, so he'll keep on refusing believing he knows best.

I don't know how to lead a horse to water though there was a thread on nudge theory.

You say he has a job 2 day a week and is seeing a buddy - can I ask if she has ever stayed over?

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"It sounds to me like he's trying to sort himself out by refusing all help from others. That, all suggestions, meds, sports, interventions that are seemingly pushed on him, so he'll keep on refusing believing he knows best.

I don't know how to lead a horse to water though there was a thread on nudge theory.

You say he has a job 2 day a week and is seeing a buddy - can I ask if she has ever stayed over?"

She stayed over when we were on holiday (which is fine) and he stays at hers sometimes (it's a student house share, so not so straightforward). She's welcome here, as are his friends and he knows that. I think he asked her over this weekend but she is working. Other than being considerate of his 5yo sister's bedtime, we have no restrictions on him having people round.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Tough love - force him to fend for himself. It will push him to confront his issues and over come them in order to get by. It might sound heartless but allowing him to make poor choices might do him more harm than good. Speaking as someone with MH I know the best thing to focus my mind is financial and work obligations. I feel better when I'm busy. "

We don't provide money for what you might call luxuries. He has free bed & board at the moment and we have paid for his prescription, for example. His PT job of 10hrs a week (min wage) is for him to spend on such things.

I'm not about to kick him out or apply any further pressure while he is so prone to self harm and suicidal thoughts.

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By *izzy.miss.lizzyCouple
over a year ago

Pembrokeshire

The charity called Mind are very supportive and they have a forum which helps some people with MH struggles too. Might be worth finding out if you can get him access to that maybe???

all the best x

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By *atriciayoiditTV/TS
over a year ago

hatfield

"...who appears to not respond to efforts to help?

We're at a loss as to how else we can help. He lives with us and his 5yo sister and so the immense difference in how we need to parent her vs him is also a challenge.

*By that, I mean we don't believe he MUST take a certain route or do a certain thing. There's no pressure from us to go down any particular route job/education wise.

Sorry for the lengthy post, all suggestions welcome. "
TIME...

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you again all above.

Balancing his needs with the fact we have a highly perceptive 5yo to think about too is adding to the challenge (plus my 82yo Dad with dementia and other stuff too).

That seems odd the surgery not allowing you to book appointments on his behalf

My sister has had similar issues booking appointments for daughter, the minute she mentions about her mental health they say she has phone herself.

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

I don't know how to lead a horse to water though there was a thread on nudge theory.

You say he has a job 2 day a week and is seeing a buddy - can I ask if she has ever stayed over?

There are a couple of interesting videos on negotiations that may help. They give ideas on aiming to get a "No", if you get a "no" you have a response, you can then turn it into a yes as you have something to work with. Negotiators expect a no, as they expects their offer rejected kind of thing.

A 'possibly', 'maybe', 'we'll see' is an awkward response as it doesn't give indication on what is good or bad.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I totally get that but the problem is it can be a risky strategy and not easy when it's someone you love deeply. X

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By *hloetTV/TS
over a year ago

Nottingham

I totally get that but the problem is it can be a risky strategy and not easy when it's someone you love deeply. X"

I don't have kids so I'm probably not the best person to give advice on this one X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I totally get that but the problem is it can be a risky strategy and not easy when it's someone you love deeply. X

I don't have kids so I'm probably not the best person to give advice on this one X "

Tough love definitely has its place and has been something that has benefited me in the past, I just think it's really difficult when someone is in a mental health crisis because it's just such a risky strategy. Xx

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Thank you again all above.

Balancing his needs with the fact we have a highly perceptive 5yo to think about too is adding to the challenge (plus my 82yo Dad with dementia and other stuff too).

That seems odd the surgery not allowing you to book appointments on his behalf

My sister has had similar issues booking appointments for daughter, the minute she mentions about her mental health they say she has phone herself. "

I didn't realise that.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I totally get that but the problem is it can be a risky strategy and not easy when it's someone you love deeply. X

I don't have kids so I'm probably not the best person to give advice on this one X

Agreed, tough love could make them feel even more alone and more prone to take negative action. Too risky!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I'm not about to kick him out or apply any further pressure while he is so prone to self harm and suicidal thoughts. "

I totally understand that Mds Ck. K is a CBT Therapist and I work with long term unemployed with a wide range of mental health conditions.

Nobody expects you to kick him out but have you considered speaking to your local authority to get him into a supported accomodation programme where he will could have a MH worker and life coach to support him?

I guess if it ultimately reaches a point where his choices, behaviours, out bursts, crisis events seriously start to impact your 5 year old very perceptive daughter.

A number of the young adults in our local authorities supported accommodation programmes were placed there by parents who in the end made the hard choice to protect the other often younger, vunerable siblings.

I hope it all works out and if you every need to talk message us anytime xx

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

i have had my own MH struggles.

I have realised it’s just part of who I am. I go through periods of dark and low to periods of buzzing and high. It’s something that I do talk about.

At 18 I left London and went to West Midlands. Looking back I had about 18 months of serious depression. Was at uni, new people I didn’t know, struggled to open up. Spent loads of money as a way to compensate as well as drank a lot

Again I went through that same mind set for period in 20s and 30s. I know now my trigger events and manage it better. In my 30s I put my hand up went to doctors and said I can’t cope. I was given medication but also counciling.

For me I still struggle now and again but I know it will improve. Stress with work appears to be a big influence to my mental health but I take small steps, and control it using coping tools. At 18 I thought people were being nosey or interfering when trying to help. It’s actually caused issues between me and family.

Maybe he needs to raise his hand and ask for help but op you should say that your here if you need it!

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Update, I might have persuaded him to go to a group for men under 40 with MH problems tomorrow. One of his friends say they'll go with him. This is after not going to his job today. We shall see...

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By *icecouple561Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

East Sussex

"Update, I might have persuaded him to go to a group for men under 40 with MH problems tomorrow. One of his friends say they'll go with him. This is after not going to his job today. We shall see... "

good luck, really hope he goes

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Just wanted to say how importantt is to get support for yourselves...you cannot support him if you are not strong yourself and you will/have to be.

I was going to suggest encouraging him to speak to other people around his age so he can understand he's not alone and shouldn't feel he has to cope alone with this....

I wish you all the luck in the world, you are amazing parents and he is very lucky to have you both x

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Hopefully he goes and finds it helpful. Xx

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By *ikeC81Man
over a year ago

harrow

Hopefully that is some good news!!!!

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

I hope he chooses to go tomorrow, yes. Hopefully the promise of his friend going with him will be an encouragement too.

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By *oubleswing2019Man
over a year ago

Colchester

Apart from the positive news of the meeting tomorrow/today, I can only echo some of the advice given above with a quote (slighted amended from the original source)

Healer, heal thyself.

You and your husband need to be in good places too, to continue to offer the support your son needs.

Hope it all goes well with his meeting.

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By *panddaCouple
over a year ago

West Mids

We have a similar problem with a 19 year old.

This has helped us a lot.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

What would happen if you weren't there? Because not to mince words, one day you won't be.

I'm sorry if this sounds blunt. It is. There is no easy way through MH."

This

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think seeking help/therapy for yourselves is a good way forward.

Hopefully if he sees you doing that it will encourage him.

Also sometimes tough love is the only way to help him seek help for himself.

I have had to do similar with my son and let him decide his own life choices. The issues with him (my son) were/are affecting all the family and making me ill. It's difficult though.

Good luck

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By *adyroseWoman
over a year ago

West Oxfordshire

"My immediate suggestion is this...... ( I'm not claiming it's THE solution )

Get help for yourselves. Find a family group or therapist or a whatever team that BOTH of you can talk to even if it's just to air your concerns.

Your son doesn't have to be included initially or even know that's where you both go.

You will be getting sound advice.

Good luck to you both ...... I hope all is resolved soon.. "

This is excellent advice and as a mental health nurse, I couldn’t have worded it better myself. When you are on a plane, you have to fit your own oxygen mask before helping others, and mental health is no different. Address your needs and consider family group therapy.

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By *hancer666Man
over a year ago

Redbourn

Let's hope he's not got a fab.com account. He'll be thrilled that his

private business has been shared and tickled pink he's been the subject of comparisons to other people's issues and also all the assumptions to explain his behaviour from people who have never met him. Anyone thought of potential implications of this. We're to assume everything that's been said is the truth then assume its not that difficult that someone knows him, mates mate, family friend etc.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"...who appears to not respond to efforts to help?

We're at a loss as to how else we can help. He lives with us and his 5yo sister and so the immense difference in how we need to parent her vs him is also a challenge.

*By that, I mean we don't believe he MUST take a certain route or do a certain thing. There's no pressure from us to go down any particular route job/education wise.

Sorry for the lengthy post, all suggestions welcome. "

In my experience this will take time, friends I know suffer with mh not taking meds etc, sitting them down talking about the root of their problems and causes helps, doctors just give them pills without really much input, because they don't have the time to be spent on doing more

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

Thank you again for the helpful suggestions

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By *oodmessMan
over a year ago

yumsville

"Let's hope he's not got a fab.com account. He'll be thrilled that his

Therein... sees his mums tits and dads dick. Fuck a duck.

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By *rHotNottsMan
over a year ago

Dubai & Nottingham

"Thank you again for the helpful suggestions

It does get easier. The stuff I was dealing with when they were 14-16 was much harder. Self harm used to freak me out as a parent , now I know it’s just something most kids do as a release and a way to take back control and on its own not something to be overly concerned about.

Hopefully a break from education will ease things, he can always return in a few years if he wants to.

I thing fazes me anymore and my kids know that , so they happily talk about things and ask my opinion on things that would have previously made me panic. If you can get to that point you will be fine

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's hope he's not got a fab.com account. He'll be thrilled that his

Did you have anything helpful to add or just having a go?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Let's hope he's not got a fab.com account. He'll be thrilled that his

Did you have anything helpful to add or just having a go? "

Exactly! And the parents need support too.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you again for the helpful suggestions

Hopefully a break from education will ease things, he can always return in a few years if he wants to.

I thing fazes me anymore and my kids know that , so they happily talk about things and ask my opinion on things that would have previously made me panic. If you can get to that point you will be fine

My daughter just told me she was self harming for a while. My eldest son has also so I was better prepared. Feel honoured that she trusted me enough to tell me. But god it's a hard thing to hear.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you again for the helpful suggestions

Hopefully a break from education will ease things, he can always return in a few years if he wants to.

I thing fazes me anymore and my kids know that , so they happily talk about things and ask my opinion on things that would have previously made me panic. If you can get to that point you will be fine

My daughter just told me she was self harming for a while. My eldest son has also so I was better prepared. Feel honoured that she trusted me enough to tell me. But god it's a hard thing to hear.

Getting teens to open up is so difficult, I’m like you though I always feel honoured when my kids open up to me.

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Thank you again for the helpful suggestions

Hopefully a break from education will ease things, he can always return in a few years if he wants to.

I thing fazes me anymore and my kids know that , so they happily talk about things and ask my opinion on things that would have previously made me panic. If you can get to that point you will be fine

My daughter just told me she was self harming for a while. My eldest son has also so I was better prepared. Feel honoured that she trusted me enough to tell me. But god it's a hard thing to hear.

It's a hard thing to see the aftermath and really hard to explain the injuries that might be visible to a much younger sibling too. It's all just very hard

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Feel free to drop me a message and we can have a look what’s available in your local area xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you again for the helpful suggestions

Hopefully a break from education will ease things, he can always return in a few years if he wants to.

I thing fazes me anymore and my kids know that , so they happily talk about things and ask my opinion on things that would have previously made me panic. If you can get to that point you will be fine

My daughter just told me she was self harming for a while. My eldest son has also so I was better prepared. Feel honoured that she trusted me enough to tell me. But god it's a hard thing to hear.

It's a hard thing to see the aftermath and really hard to explain the injuries that might be visible to a much younger sibling too. It's all just very hard

Have you heard of Battle Scars - they have a fb group around 3k members, with strict rules in place; to avoid triggering any more self harm. It’s a support network for families as well as those who use self harm to cope with everyday life x

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By *eroLondonMan
over a year ago

Covent Garden

"Let's hope he's not got a fab.com account. He'll be thrilled that his

•

Look, there are two genuine people reaching out for some guidance and viewpoints and who have on the whole received some positive responses. There is nothing in their opening post or subsequent responses which suggests any personally-identifiable information. There is an element of obfuscation to maintain the discretion on this thread.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Thank you again for the helpful suggestions

Hopefully a break from education will ease things, he can always return in a few years if he wants to.

I thing fazes me anymore and my kids know that , so they happily talk about things and ask my opinion on things that would have previously made me panic. If you can get to that point you will be fine

My daughter just told me she was self harming for a while. My eldest son has also so I was better prepared. Feel honoured that she trusted me enough to tell me. But god it's a hard thing to hear.

It's a hard thing to see the aftermath and really hard to explain the injuries that might be visible to a much younger sibling too. It's all just very hard

Oh I can imagine

My daughter is my youngest child. She's in a better place now.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I have joined a few parenting mental health sites on the dreaded facebook. Whilst it is sometimes difficult to read and hear others troubles it is an incredibly supportive page, and it has allowed me to take a step back and breath when my daughter is particulary troubled. And just to know so many others are experiencing the same thing. It is so hard though, I have it through my wider family too and it leaves you shell shocked afterwards and feeling helpless. It is hard to know the decision to get better has to come from them, but I loved that saying above in another post, 'healer, first thyself' (it might have made me cry) Get all the support you can for yourself and hopefully that positivity filters down through everyone you care for. Sending love. Xx

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I have joined a few parenting mental health sites on the dreaded facebook. Whilst it is sometimes difficult to read and hear others troubles it is an incredibly supportive page, and it has allowed me to take a step back and breath when my daughter is particulary troubled. And just to know so many others are experiencing the same thing. It is so hard though, I have it through my wider family too and it leaves you shell shocked afterwards and feeling helpless. It is hard to know the decision to get better has to come from them, but I loved that saying above in another post, 'healer, first thyself' (it might have made me cry) Get all the support you can for yourself and hopefully that positivity filters down through everyone you care for. Sending love. Xx"

Should you need any more support, please ask your GP to refer you to your local free Link Worker or Social Prescriber. They can help you with anything that isn’t just treated with prescribed medication. They have more time than GPs and can work with you for up to three months

https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalisedcare/social-prescribing/faqs/#what-is-the-social-prescribing-link-worker-role

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalisedcare/social-prescribing/faqs/#what-is-the-social-prescribing-link-worker-role"

Thankyou, it isn't a service as widely known about as it should be. The gp did suggest it for daughter but as she is only 15 she couldnt access it. I never thought to ask about it for myself but will do. X

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

https://www.england.nhs.uk/personalisedcare/social-prescribing/faqs/#what-is-the-social-prescribing-link-worker-role

Some areas offer 16 plus (not just 18 plus) - absolutely do it for you if you want to…. it’s a shame you’re not local. Feel free to message if you want to chat. I wish you all the best. X

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By *inky_couple2020 OP Couple
over a year ago

North West

"Feel free to drop me a message and we can have a look what’s available in your local area xx"

Thank you, I will get in touch. I hadn't heard of "Battle Scars" you refer to in a different message, no, so I'll look into that also. Thank you!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Feel free to drop me a message and we can have a look what’s available in your local area xx

Thank you, I will get in touch. I hadn't heard of "Battle Scars" you refer to in a different message, no, so I'll look into that also. Thank you! "

You’re welcome! Be Well - Manchester is your local social prescribing service! All the best x

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By *hancer666Man
over a year ago

Redbourn

"Let's hope he's not got a fab.com account. He'll be thrilled that his

•

You mean apart from what his parents look like. An element of obfuscation only if you fail to see a point someone is making, i doubt failed to see it as come across
"Let's hope he's not got a fab.com account. He'll be thrilled that his

•

You mean apart from what his Parents look like. An element of obfuscation to some but I doubt that includes you,

You across pretty switched on in your posts and and well read so Ill assume 'obfuscation' was todays word to get in. I can hear the groans already ...another stab at it as it's one of the few times in a post ill say anything remotely important. Trust gets mentioned lot here and how hard is communicate with young adults experiencing mental health issues. It's hard to gain that trust, even harder to maintain, very easy to lose it. I have no experience working with teenages but i have with adults that sit right at that top level of risk. Someone that finds it hard to communicate and open up with one person, i would imagine if a person knew that their situation with mental health was being discussed on a forum that can be seen by thousands it may cause some trust issues. I can think of half a dozen ways this info could get back, most unlikely to be fair, but 'unlikely' is more than enough when you look at the possible consequence. Of course family need support i never said otherwise, i just didnt point it out as that was taken care off by most. You can have same post and responses, with no mention of his mental health issues.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

[Removed by poster at 07/02/22 21:46:05]

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Sorry typos! Do you think it is possible he has undiagnosed autism, in addition to or in place of mental health conditions? Autism can be crippling just like depression and there can be a similarity for people looking from the outside.

In my family there is autism and some mental health. It sounds like a tough time and you are a very caring mother, I hops things balance out for you.

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