FabSwingers.com forum: Black lives matter

By (user no longer on site) OP
over a year ago

Is it just me or anyone else thing all these protesters in the uk are just sheep following what happens in the USA and the news, I can’t imagine anyone in the USA giving a toss about what the uk thinks or does, and if black lives matter so much why not mention the poor security guard killed by looters as he tried to protect the store he worked at!

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By *partharmonyCouple
over a year ago

Ruislip

No. There are racial attitudes and resulting actions in the US that are repulsive. I'm not in the least surprised people all over the world are telling them. It's to do with outrage and respect for life, not just following the crowd.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It doesn't just happen in the US. George Floyd's murder sparked this wave of anger, but people here are protesting for British people who have been killed because of systemic racism, not just Americans.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst I wholeheartedly hope that those responsible for this are dealt with accordingly, I really hate the way the press always report this type of crime, "Black man killed by white cop" I wonder if it was, "White cop killed by black man" the reporting and response from the public would be the same ?

A lot of these protesters are not protesters at all, they are quite simply a bunch of people who are intent on Anarchy and I'll bet good money that a lot of them haven't even got the foggiest idea what they're 'protesting' about.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"Is it just me or anyone else thing all these protesters in the uk are just sheep following what happens in the USA and the news, I can’t imagine anyone in the USA giving a toss about what the uk thinks or does, and if black lives matter so much why not mention the poor security guard killed by looters as he tried to protect the store he worked at! "
No. You are not alone, in the UK, in thinking that black lives don't matter and that black people should put up with racism or only protest in ways you approve of. However, that doesn't make your attitude right, morally justifiable or attractive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I think what they are protesting about is correct, racism is wrong, all forms of it is wrong, everybody is equal, however how they are protesting is wrong, all the riots, all the rioting, do they not understand that they money to replace the police cars and fix damages to buildings comes from their tax dollars and can impact things like education because there won’t be enough money to fund it, think the looting is for opportunistic thieves that’s all.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Yeah. It’s just you.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

All lives matter so it's probably best not to protest during a pandemic to prevent more lives being wasted.

Clearly what has happened in the u.s is abhorrent but sadly America is America and due to the constitution things will never change, when a piece of paper is how you govern your lives no matter what, you can never move on in time.

The worse way of making your point though is to loot shops and turn the streets into a warzone, hopefully we can make our point in a more peaceful way here.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Is it just me or anyone else thing all these protesters in the uk are just sheep following what happens in the USA and the news, I can’t imagine anyone in the USA giving a toss about what the uk thinks or does, and if black lives matter so much why not mention the poor security guard killed by looters as he tried to protect the store he worked at! No. You are not alone, in the UK, in thinking that black lives don't matter and that black people should put up with racism or only protest in ways you approve of. However, that doesn't make your attitude right, morally justifiable or attractive. "

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By *istretchMan
over a year ago

leeds

Where was said black lives dont matter? The whole movement lost any morality when the looting started . Martin luther king was always for peaceful protest and as for the kneeling is it the last act upon a dieing man or kneel before me as i am greater than you , you decide for your self

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By *elloIntrigueMan
over a year ago

North West UK

Racism is a blight on our society, something Western countries and that good old colonial spirit exacerbated (in my opinion, of course). I support their fight for a better world and more understanding. I don't condone the violence and the other crime that follows as that undermines the struggle.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The violence is inevitable. Racism and oppression have been happening for centuries, they tried to raise awareness for centuries, they’ve tried protesting peacefully for centuries and they’ve been ignored.

It’ll just keep happening because too many white people are happy to turn a blind eye in return for their nice peaceful lives

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"I think what they are protesting about is correct, racism is wrong, all forms of it is wrong, everybody is equal, however how they are protesting is wrong, all the riots, all the rioting, do they not understand that they money to replace the police cars and fix damages to buildings comes from their tax dollars and can impact things like education because there won’t be enough money to fund it, think the looting is for opportunistic thieves that’s all. "
What black people don't need right now is white people coming along explaining how they're doing it all wrong, and if only they'd listen to white folks it would get better. That ship has sailed.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I think what they are protesting about is correct, racism is wrong, all forms of it is wrong, everybody is equal, however how they are protesting is wrong, all the riots, all the rioting, do they not understand that they money to replace the police cars and fix damages to buildings comes from their tax dollars and can impact things like education because there won’t be enough money to fund it, think the looting is for opportunistic thieves that’s all. What black people don't need right now is white people coming along explaining how they're doing it all wrong, and if only they'd listen to white folks it would get better. That ship has sailed."

I don't think it's helpful to suggest that someone might be 'whitesplaining' it's divisive.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"The violence is inevitable. Racism and oppression have been happening for centuries, they tried to raise awareness for centuries, they’ve tried protesting peacefully for centuries and they’ve been ignored.

It’ll just keep happening because too many white people are happy to turn a blind eye in return for their nice peaceful lives "

I resent that too.

Show me all the evidence you have that the Floyd died because white people don't care.

Nothing will excuse the length of time that a knee was on his neck NOTHING but don't say it's because one race doesn't care.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

I saw someone in Twitter make the point that instead of so many people saying

"police killing black people is wrong, but looting and destruction has to stop"

they should be saying

"looting and destruction is wrong, but police killing black people has to stop"

The emphasis should be on human lives, not stolen TVs or smashed windows.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"Racism is a blight on our society, something Western countries and that good old colonial spirit exacerbated (in my opinion, of course). I support their fight for a better world and more understanding. I don't condone the violence and the other crime that follows as that undermines the struggle."

Capitalism and class are the enemy and as long as you can divide people they will thrive on your hate of each other.

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By *hetalkingstoveMan
over a year ago

London

It’ll just keep happening because too many white people are happy to turn a blind eye in return for their nice peaceful lives

I resent that too.

Show me all the evidence you have that the Floyd died because white people don't care.

Nothing will excuse the length of time that a knee was on his neck NOTHING but don't say it's because one race doesn't care. "

Don't do this. It's not about you.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

It’ll just keep happening because too many white people are happy to turn a blind eye in return for their nice peaceful lives

I resent that too.

Show me all the evidence you have that the Floyd died because white people don't care.

Nothing will excuse the length of time that a knee was on his neck NOTHING but don't say it's because one race doesn't care.

Don't do this. It's not about you. "

Another sweet cliche designed to silence people.

If people can't speak then who is it about ....... ???

If your answer is what I think it is and no one else has the right to speak then leave them to it.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

"I saw someone in Twitter make the point that instead of so many people saying

"police killing black people is wrong, but looting and destruction has to stop"

they should be saying

"looting and destruction is wrong, but police killing black people has to stop"

The emphasis should be on human lives, not stolen TVs or smashed windows. "

Don't do this ....... it's not about that person on Twitter.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Its not just you, sadly there are others who will seek to deflect or try to twist things rather than face the truth..

If you think it's somehow a different issue because Weare in another country then Google Christopher Alder..

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’ll just keep happening because too many white people are happy to turn a blind eye in return for their nice peaceful lives

I resent that too.

Show me all the evidence you have that the Floyd died because white people don't care.

Nothing will excuse the length of time that a knee was on his neck NOTHING but don't say it's because one race doesn't care. "

The evidence is that systemic racism still exists, I didn’t say one race doesn’t care I said too many white people don’t want to get involved because they don’t want their lives upsetting.

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By *ranny-CrumpetWoman
over a year ago

The Town by The Cross

It’ll just keep happening because too many white people are happy to turn a blind eye in return for their nice peaceful lives

I resent that too.

Show me all the evidence you have that the Floyd died because white people don't care.

Nothing will excuse the length of time that a knee was on his neck NOTHING but don't say it's because one race doesn't care.

The evidence is that systemic racism still exists, I didn’t say one race doesn’t care I said too many white people don’t want to get involved because they don’t want their lives upsetting.

That's the same thing.

Maybe they think someone will happen along to tell them it's not their argument.

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By *AYENCouple
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It’ll just keep happening because too many white people are happy to turn a blind eye in return for their nice peaceful lives

I resent that too.

Show me all the evidence you have that the Floyd died because white people don't care.

Nothing will excuse the length of time that a knee was on his neck NOTHING but don't say it's because one race doesn't care.

The evidence is that systemic racism still exists, I didn’t say one race doesn’t care I said too many white people don’t want to get involved because they don’t want their lives upsetting.

That's the same thing.

Maybe they think someone will happen along to tell them it's not their argument. "

Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Capitalism and class are the enemy and as long as you can divide people they will thrive on your hate of each other. "

Anti capitalism is essential to a good anti racist approach. I agree. But race also transcends class, white supremacy benefits from and has benefitted from that fact. I really can’t be bothered to explain it all when nobody cares but literally like the history is there.

Also, anyone that is truly anti capitalist takes no issue with the destruction of private property.

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By *ophieslutTV/TS
over a year ago

Central

Sometimes expressing yourself and especially collectively, can be therapeutic and help people to engage more change.

There's racism in the uk. In some areas BAME have been disproportionately ticketed during lockdown. We also know that they are significantly more likely to die from covid-19 than white people but insufficient attention is being made to this.

Demonstrators are all unique people, different beliefs, motivations but are all within a system that is racist. Never a moment too soon for that to be changed. Power to the people

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Whilst I wholeheartedly hope that those responsible for this are dealt with accordingly, I really hate the way the press always report this type of crime, "Black man killed by white cop" I wonder if it was, "White cop killed by black man" the reporting and response from the public would be the same ?

The way crimes are reported in racial terms has indeed been studied. BAME people tend to get more hostile reports written about them whether they're suspect or victim.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter. "
.

Why is it always labelled a racist killing who says it was these policemen were obviously wrong whatever colour or race the person is.

People obviously decide it's racist just to satisfy their agenda.

The main culprit who knelt on his neck knew Floyd and had worked with him it could have been something totally unrelated with race and a personal thing.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter. .

Why is it always labelled a racist killing who says it was these policemen were obviously wrong whatever colour or race the person is.

People obviously decide it's racist just to satisfy their agenda.

The main culprit who knelt on his neck knew Floyd and had worked with him it could have been something totally unrelated with race and a personal thing."

George Floyd’s murder wasn’t racist because the officer did it in the conscious aim of muttering a black man because he’s Black. Well, we don’t know that yet anyway.

But it has racial dynamics because the officer’s actions are likely guided by racist myths of threat and criminality. This is regular and consistent. Police officers often perceive Black people as a greater threat and act according to that perception. The consequence is often police brutality and often death. So that’s how this was racist. It’s also racist because Black people are disproportionately affected by this issue and they are never given justice. Essentially police officers are ordering them at a higher rate, and getting away with it.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter. .

Why is it always labelled a racist killing who says it was these policemen were obviously wrong whatever colour or race the person is.

People obviously decide it's racist just to satisfy their agenda.

The main culprit who knelt on his neck knew Floyd and had worked with him it could have been something totally unrelated with race and a personal thing.

George Floyd’s murder wasn’t racist because the officer did it in the conscious aim of murdering a black man because he’s Black. Well, we don’t know that yet anyway.

But it has racial dynamics because the officer’s actions are likely guided by racist myths of threat and criminality. This is regular and consistent. Police officers often perceive Black people as a greater threat and act according to that perception. The consequence is often police brutality and often death. So that’s how this was racist. It’s also racist because Black people are disproportionately affected by this issue and they are never given justice. Essentially police officers are murdering them at a higher rate, and getting away with it. "

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter. .

Why is it always labelled a racist killing who says it was these policemen were obviously wrong whatever colour or race the person is.

People obviously decide it's racist just to satisfy their agenda.

The main culprit who knelt on his neck knew Floyd and had worked with him it could have been something totally unrelated with race and a personal thing."

The officer has 18 complaints on his record of violence towards people of colour. The fact that he was allowed to keep his job with that amount of complaints shows how the US defends it's officers over all others.

The fact that he already knew him should make you question why he would go to such lengths to arrest him over a petty crime.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m sure a good proportion of those protesting are not doing so because they believe in the cause. They are doing so because they want to cause trouble. It is possible to peacefully protest, but that is not the aim of many.

This has the potential to escalate to the riots seen in 2011.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don’t have a problem with peaceful protest. People were exercising their rights and showing solidarity with an issue that deeply affects our closest ally. I don’t condone violence tho.

What baffles me is the double standards at play by some of my NHS/key workers friends. Last week some of them were demanding the army go and clear people off the beaches and out of the parks. Before that they wanted water cannons used on the anti lockdown protestors. But today there’s no mention of social distancing. I like a bit of consistency in my outrage mobs

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m sure a good proportion of those protesting are not doing so because they believe in the cause. They are doing so because they want to cause trouble. It is possible to peacefully protest, but that is not the aim of many.

This has the potential to escalate to the riots seen in 2011."

That's where things get complicated. Most of the people do being in the cause but yes they do want to cause damage. They have tried protesting peacefully for almost 60 years and nothing changes until one of the leaders gets killed and things turn violent. They have been relatively peaceful over the last 20-30 years but have things changed at a systematic level?

The thing to remember is no one would really want to protest during a epidemic unless they thought it was important

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This has the potential to escalate to the riots seen in 2011.

The thing to remember is no one would really want to protest during a epidemic unless they thought it was important"

Are you talking about America or here?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Whilst I’m not here to justify looting etc. I think it’s worth noting that a) peaceful protests do not work for the black community seen as we are still having to protest our oppression. b) the method of organising is never a justification for not providing justice. Justice will always be the most important thing and it isn’t something you have to ask for politely. c) what people are protesting about its violence. Violence done on to us for centuries, without consequence. d) whilstThe destruction of private property is sad, property is replaceable, supporters of protesters have been donating to replace damages and are exceeding donation goals but what is not replaceable are black lives that are taken too soon from black families that don’t get justice.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This has the potential to escalate to the riots seen in 2011.

The thing to remember is no one would really want to protest during a epidemic unless they thought it was important

Are you talking about America or here? "

Both here and the US. The issues here are no where near the levels of America but are instilled in our society. From personal experience I'd say there was a negative encounter almost everyday before lockdown for as long as I can remember. It reminds you that while you try to treat people as you want to be treated they will judge you based on something you cannot control

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This has the potential to escalate to the riots seen in 2011.

The thing to remember is no one would really want to protest during a epidemic unless they thought it was important

Are you talking about America or here? "

Funny enough, I think both apply. I suppose with the exception of 2011, which was co-opted and derailed from its original motive, but even that didn’t bring justice or change.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Peaceful protest simply doesn’t work for the real big issues.

Emily Pankhurst is a pivotal figure in the fight for women’s rights, her and her followers attacked policemen and smashed windows.

The Stonewall riots were key events in struggle of the gay rights movement.

These people didn’t want to do what they did but they were left with no options

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I can agree on the point that 2011 was hijacked by opportunists but I can’t agree that protests in the us have been peaceful for 30 years. Detroit, LA, Dallas....none of them were peaceful. I’ll concede there may have been small scale peaceful protests elsewhere that I may not be aware of, but the levels of violence at the three places I just mentioned eclipse everything else.

The uk is a different story. I’m quite proud of how many peaceful protests we have here, for any cause.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I’m absolutely in favour of peaceful protests, which we’ve seen and the actions of a few cannot undermine a movement’s cause of justice. But it’s not the method of protesting that is denying us justice or equality. Lol.

But what should I tell my child? ‘Sorry you have to experience this, sorry I have to prepare you for this, but we keep asking nicely and they keep saying no.’

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By *al2001Man
over a year ago

kildare

Can UK point the finger at US and trump?

You both elected in TV personalities on a wave of xenophobia

And both have shameful racist murderous history

I would suggest focus on where UK is going and not US

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Peaceful protest simply doesn’t work for the real big issues.

Emily Pankhurst is a pivotal figure in the fight for women’s rights, her and her followers attacked policemen and smashed windows.

The Stonewall riots were key events in struggle of the gay rights movement.

These people didn’t want to do what they did but they were left with no options

Also, do people think slavery was abolished because slaves asked to be freed and White people suddenly realised they had a point? That’s just revisionist to the countless revolts that led to freedom and justice.

And as said here, it’s not peaceful protests that force people to hear you out, but when it comes to race, it’s always be more peaceful and then maybe we’ll give you justice. It’s like saying, ‘I’ve got a knife in your back and I’ll take it out if you stop screaming and ask me politely’. You’re the bad guy here, why should I have to ask you to take it out???

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I can agree on the point that 2011 was hijacked by opportunists but I can’t agree that protests in the us have been peaceful for 30 years. Detroit, LA, Dallas....none of them were peaceful. I’ll concede there may have been small scale peaceful protests elsewhere that I may not be aware of, but the levels of violence at the three places I just mentioned eclipse everything else.

The uk is a different story. I’m quite proud of how many peaceful protests we have here, for any cause. "

That's fair enough to mention. There has been times of violent protests and you are in better knowledge than I am about them.

Most protests have been peaceful here and in the US. The issue is that nothing has really changed in terms of systematic racism.

I also appreciate our peaceful protests and with many topics it has lead to positive change.

I sincerely hope any protests here in the UK don't spiral into high levels of violence as while the cause is just it with deter the views of the public.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

i hate to really disappoint you.... but if you think what happens in the US doesn't happen in the UK, then you will always be part of the problem and never part of the solution.....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

They shouldnt be protesting during this time, they and other mass gatherings areputting everyone else at risk with the 2nd wave of the virus is just around the corner.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"All lives matter so it's probably best not to protest during a pandemic to prevent more lives being wasted.

The worse way of making your point though is to loot shops and turn the streets into a warzone, hopefully we can make our point in a more peaceful way here."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

If your mind could really see

You'd know your color the same as me

Pardon me, brother, as you stand in your glory

I know you won't mind if I tell the whole story, Curtis Mayfield 1973 !!!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

i hate to really disappoint you.... but if you think what happens in the US doesn't happen in the UK, then you will always be part of the problem and never part of the solution....."

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I’m absolutely in favour of peaceful protests, which we’ve seen and the actions of a few cannot undermine a movement’s cause of justice. But it’s not the method of protesting that is denying us justice or equality. Lol.

But what should I tell my child? ‘Sorry you have to experience this, sorry I have to prepare you for this, but we keep asking nicely and they keep saying no.’"

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The uk is a different story. I’m quite proud of how many peaceful protests we have here, for any cause. "

Whilst I see your point, respectfully disagree but see it, I don’t really see how anyone can see what happens there and not think the solution is to provide justice and to enact changes that will bring about equality. Those things happened. But those things didn’t just happen out of nowhere, for no reason. People will resist, and we can’t only support resistance that is peaceful because of some misguided notion that we are morally above violence. We are not, and denying people justice is condoning the violence done unto them. And we can’t be above violence when it comes to oppressed groups, their oppression is violence. There’s irony in the state condemning violence of these groups whilst simultaneously violently oppressing these groups and then justifying doing it to them. Oppression is violence.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

But the UK is significantly further down the line of equality than America. I’m not saying it’s perfect or that further work isn’t needed, but we’re in an entirely different position to America. I don’t see the requirement for violence in the UK. Afro Americans have rioted and destroyed their own communities over and over again and its gotten them nowhere it seems. I saw a really powerful video of a 31 year old black man begging a 50 year old and a 16 year old to stop with the violence, because it’s been tried and nothing changed. George Floyd’s own brother said at his memorial to stop the violence and start ‘educating yourselves and vote. Learn about your candidates and VOTE’. But I’m digressing, the thread is about the UK.

Apologies OP.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"I think what they are protesting about is correct, racism is wrong, all forms of it is wrong, everybody is equal, however how they are protesting is wrong, all the riots, all the rioting, do they not understand that they money to replace the police cars and fix damages to buildings comes from their tax dollars and can impact things like education because there won’t be enough money to fund it, think the looting is for opportunistic thieves that’s all. What black people don't need right now is white people coming along explaining how they're doing it all wrong, and if only they'd listen to white folks it would get better. That ship has sailed.

I don't think it's helpful to suggest that someone might be 'whitesplaining' it's divisive. "
I sincerely and deeply wish to be divided from the whitesplainers - they are not on my side, and they do not speak for me.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Peaceful protest simply doesn’t work for the real big issues.

Emily Pankhurst is a pivotal figure in the fight for women’s rights, her and her followers attacked policemen and smashed windows.

The Stonewall riots were key events in struggle of the gay rights movement.

These people didn’t want to do what they did but they were left with no options

Agreed, unfortunately I can’t see any real change happening until wider society experiences the fear the black community endures

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"But the UK is significantly further down the line of equality than America. I’m not saying it’s perfect or that further work isn’t needed, but we’re in an entirely different position to America. I don’t see the requirement for violence in the UK. Afro Americans have rioted and destroyed their own communities over and over again and its gotten them nowhere it seems. I saw a really powerful video of a 31 year old black man begging a 50 year old and a 16 year old to stop with the violence, because it’s been tried and nothing changed. George Floyd’s own brother said at his memorial to stop the violence and start ‘educating yourselves and vote. Learn about your candidates and VOTE’. But I’m digressing, the thread is about the UK.

Apologies OP. "

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

Also, the UK experience is entirely different of course because Britain did everything abroad until they allowed us over here after the war. But to suggest we’re further down the line in terms of equality not only undermines the black British experience, not only pits it in competition with the experiences of Black people across the African diaspora, but it also neglected that racism trust is rooted in attitudes as much as it is in the structures of society. Racism in Britain looks different but racism is always the same. The education system, the justice system, the attitudes of the people, everything. There’s so much evidence about the extent of British racism. For example, there’s more Black people in prison per person in the UK than in the US. and if you examine the root causes, it’s almost all rooted in racism and classism. Class also disproportionately affects black communities so it’s futile to ignore the race aspects. We can talk about the need for justice in the UK and I’m not denying that you see the need for it, but comparisons to the US in attempts to make us feel grateful? For living here or that it’s better for us here, is disingenuous.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter. .

Why is it always labelled a racist killing who says it was these policemen were obviously wrong whatever colour or race the person is.

People obviously decide it's racist just to satisfy their agenda.

The main culprit who knelt on his neck knew Floyd and had worked with him it could have been something totally unrelated with race and a personal thing."

yeah... erm... granny... i don't think that is a road you really want to go down... because if the DA and AG thought that, they would be chagring the Cops with Murder 1.... and potential death penalty on the line, Rather than charging them with Murder 2!

the fact that i can say "we have been here before" and point a whole ton of names.... then you know there are issues!

its also asking people so face some uncomfortable truths they may not like to confront

if we got stopped for the same thing at the same time i would almost guarentee my experience of it would be different to yours...

most of my circle of friends happen to be white and they know me well enough now that i will answer any questions they have brutally honest.... and i have said to a lot of them that acknowledging the system is different is the first step...

and when i mean acknowledge, its inward... no "whataboutthem".. no "oh woe is me" .. no "ifs or buts"

you have to own it before you can change it!

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

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By *abioMan
over a year ago

Newcastle and Gateshead

"Whilst I’m not here to justify looting etc. I think it’s worth noting that a) peaceful protests do not work for the black community seen as we are still having to protest our oppression. b) the method of organising is never a justification for not providing justice. Justice will always be the most important thing and it isn’t something you have to ask for politely. c) what people are protesting about its violence. Violence done on to us for centuries, without consequence. d) whilstThe destruction of private property is sad, property is replaceable, supporters of protesters have been donating to replace damages and are exceeding donation goals but what is not replaceable are black lives that are taken too soon from black families that don’t get justice. "

remember that time we decided to silently "take a knee" to protest police brutality... and it got hijacked by some to mean disrespecting the flag.... yeah... that!!!!

and we always said.... it was about police brutality.... and people said... no no no no no military and flag!

see........

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

I think you’ve misconstrued what I’ve said here. I haven’t tried to make you feel grateful for living in the UK, and I’m not denying that the UK hasn’t got a chequered past when it comes to race (find me a European nation that hasn’t). And I haven’t said we have equality here. I made a point of saying we still have work to do, so please don’t pin a false narrative on me.

Take what happened in London yesterday as an example of what I mean. The Met allowed people to gather en masse, breaching social distancing guidelines up and down the city for a cause that the force was happy to support. Two weeks previously they were busting heads at an anti lockdown protest. There were officers stood on guard at Downing Street being called scum, and other officers even took the knee in solidarity with the protestors....but they still turned violent. I just want to know what will it take for this to stop becoming violent? Is there a necessity for it to become violent here? People are listening, actually listening, for the first time in as long as I can remember, and it’s still spoilt by a tiny violent minority of protestors. I can’t condone that. I appreciate your lived experience is different to mine, and I understand where you’re coming from, but I saw no tyranny at the hands of the state yesterday. None at all. Police weren’t even in their PSU gear which tells you they expected a peaceful demonstration. I can’t agree that a good natured, well meaning protest like that can just be allowed to become violent, when every extension of fairness, reasonableness and dignity was afforded the protestors from the outset. The murder of George shouldn’t be a flashpoint, or should be a turning point. I’m still hopeful it will be.

Apologies about the long post

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By *elshyXOMan
over a year ago

Newcastle

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

Precisely this. British history is very much whitewashed - from The Crusades, to slavery, the British Empire, The Troubles & so on. The schools learn about thr Blitz but not about Dresden. It’s entirely whitewashed so we never own it nor question it on a national scale. Until we can learn & understand our own wrongdoings in the past, we can never grow from these things & create a better socirty than the one before

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

Our history for so many of us is invariably tied to the Europe and there difficult relations that were a result of their colonial pasts. Of course it predates our arrival (well the largest chunk of it). Windrush to today is just when we became more visible.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

remember that time we decided to silently "take a knee" to protest police brutality... and it got hijacked by some to mean disrespecting the flag.... yeah... that!!!!

and we always said.... it was about police brutality.... and people said... no no no no no military and flag!

see........

The terrible Kaepernick takes are coming back to bite the ‘protest peacefully’ people in the arse. Can’t make it up

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

Apologies about the long post

I appreciate the long post. Don’t apologise for it. Because of work I can’t make this long in response but ultimately my stance is that the police are bodies of the state and the people will likely express frustration at the state and it will be taken out on those that protect them or enforce their wills. Without sounding too anarchist or whatever, it usually boils down to frustration at who rules over you. That’s what people that go out and protest usually feel anyway, imo. Not average Joe that sits at home.

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By *agneto.Man
over a year ago

Bham

I do think there's a bit of copycatting going on with people over here. I think a lot of people are there to add to their snapchat stories and show off on social media rather than being there for the cause. Same with clapping for carers, it's more about them than it is for the cause.

That doesn't mean there's not an issue though, just looting and violence isn't going to solve that issue, it's just going to marginalise.

Plus racism here compared to America is very different. It is much worse over there. Asians get more casual racism here in the UK from what I have observed.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter. "

It's not just about numbers. It's about white privileges, and how disproportionate the numbers sway when percentage is taken into account. Why don't you look for the stats that show race in regards to stop and search in the UK? A black individual is 5 times more likely to be stopped on the street by the police. Its not just about the killing of black people, its about the other more deep embedded behaviour that is overlooked mainly due to how long its been there. The crossing the street because you're scared, the fact if your cv or job application shows you're black you're at a proven lesser chance to get the job. So yes, all lives matter but right now black lives matter and need to be heard.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

Apologies about the long post

Indeed and whilst the majority of the police are not racist they are working under the system and enforcing the rules without standing against the issues. With the job comes the responsibility and that unfortunately makes them the direct route of the racism regardless of their personal stance

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

Apologies about the long post

I appreciate your honesty. My partner is an ex police officer and I have a few friends in the job so I see things a bit differently I’d wager.

Are you not worried about the potential ramifications of violence against the state then? It’s been proven time and time again that this kind of civil disorder feeds the right wing in a way open debate never could. When there’s conflict like that on people’s doorsteps they no longer want bread and circuses, they want law and order, and the right wing knows how to exploit that. That’s what worries me personally.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

.....I was taught about the Crusades and the Empire. My school had an RAF veteran who took part in the bombing of Dresden come in and speak to us. Wolf is from Liverpool and went on school trips to the trans Atlantic Slavery museum, and he was taught about the Troubles through his English Literature classes at school, randomly.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I appreciate your honesty. My partner is an ex police officer and I have a few friends in the job so I see things a bit differently I’d wager.

That’s fair.

Genuinely though, what do you think Black people should do in this situation to get what were asking for?

Because I’m at a loss after however many years of this shit, what we have to do for it to be enough to get what we’re asking for. Which isn’t much by the way. Of course violence against the state worries me. As does continued state violence against Black people without any consequence or justice. If you’re asking which one concerns me more? Of course violence against Black people concerns me more. If racism is at the core and the foundations of any structure, it seems wishful to think that you could reform it and get any kind of real freedom or justice. And state is founded on, and survives on White supremacy and anti blackness.

Make of that what you will

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

remember that time we decided to silently "take a knee" to protest police brutality... and it got hijacked by some to mean disrespecting the flag.... yeah... that!!!!

and we always said.... it was about police brutality.... and people said... no no no no no military and flag!

see........

The terrible Kaepernick takes are coming back to bite the ‘protest peacefully’ people in the arse. Can’t make it up

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By *acey_RedWoman
over a year ago

Liverpool

Erm no... I'm also pretty sure that for black people in the UK its not about what Americans do or don't think, its personal.

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"Erm no... I'm also pretty sure that for black people in the UK its not about what Americans do or don't think, its personal. "

I find it strange that people automatically assume that black people outside the US are jumping on a bandwagon. Why would they? They don't need to. Black lives matter here too ffs

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

"I do think there's a bit of copycatting going on with people over here. I think a lot of people are there to add to their snapchat stories and show off on social media rather than being there for the cause. Same with clapping for carers, it's more about them than it is for the cause.

That doesn't mean there's not an issue though, just looting and violence isn't going to solve that issue, it's just going to marginalise.

Plus racism here compared to America is very different. It is much worse over there. Asians get more casual racism here in the UK from what I have observed. "
No-one gets shot or has police dogs set on them for clapping for carers. Of course protest is sometimes performative, a kind of street theatre where people can express themselves, but to compare facing down armoured cars and cops with guns to banging your pots and pans to show your neighbours how much you care is pretty daft....

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

It's not just you. So many posts on social media for example no one protested when Lee Rugby was backed to death by two black men or why are people not protesting when a black guy kills a black guy or vice versa

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

"It's not just you. So many posts on social media for example no one protested when Lee Rugby was backed to death by two black men or why are people not protesting when a black guy kills a black guy or vice versa "

I remember enormous uproar when Rigby was killed.

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans "
I do. If you live in a society that cares more about protecting private proprerty than it does about protecting black people, the first thing you're likely to want to do is to turn that world upside down. This insight comes to you courtesy of Christopher Hill, who explained the idea that feudal society's obsession with property rights was always going to be challenged by people with demands rooted in the land, like the Levellers and the Diggers, in a book called, wait for it 'the World Turned upside Down.' It's quite a cool song as well...

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By *heIcebreakersCouple
over a year ago

Cramlington

I remember enormous uproar when Rigby was killed."
So do I.

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By *pursChick aka ShortieWoman
over a year ago

On a mooch

Totally different situation and circumstances, you cannot compare the two.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is totally missing the point and I Dont understand the logic behind arguments like this.

Yes people of all colours Kill eachother but that's not what this is about.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I remember enormous uproar when Rigby was killed."

As do i and I remember the attacks on individual members of the population who were Muslim in retaliation.

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By *arentsgonebadCouple
over a year ago

sheffield

Absolutely black lives matter and what happened to that poor man was a disgrace and rightfully so the cop has been charged , however all life's matter and portraying in London breaking all social distancing rule's graffitid ww2 monument's is equally a disgrace.

If they wanted to protest fine adhear to 2m and policy's shows a lack of regard for life's in this country.

Graffiting the ww2 monument is unforgivable , shows a lack of education and understanding that million of people died around the world to protect the minority against one of the biggest rasicsts leader than ever lived ... Their is a difference between anochy and protests

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By *AYENCouple
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter.

If you watch an American programme they make a huge deal about being black or white, whilst here in the UK it's barely mentioned - compare Power to Gangs of London for example.

If you don't want a divided society then don't start by dividing it!

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I remember enormous uproar when Rigby was killed.

As do i and I remember the attacks on individual members of the population who were Muslim in retaliation. "

And they didn't go to defend the attackers. That's the big point. No one has on the side of the attackers nor did anyone just say silent. They were arrested and charged straight away

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans "

I’m not here to dispute anyone’s lived experience or whether looting is good. Anyone that is looting isn’t doing so for any cause to do with any anti racism movement and so really it’s not really worth acting as if they are. But also destroying the community isn’t something I condone. As I said. It’s something that I said can be fixed, but black lives can’t be magically brought back to life. And those black families that have been denied justice can’t just undo what they’ve gone through. It’s frustrating though, that this conversation becomes about how you respond to your oppression and not your oppression itself. And it becomes about pretty much every single thing you can think of, except taking responsibility for anti black racist structures that allow what has been happening to Black people across the diaspora for so long, to happen. To reiterate my point, Black lives are not disposable nor are they replaceable and no defence of private property will ever make me equate them. Not even Black people’s private property. They are not the same. My life is not the same as someone’s business. Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"Absolutely black lives matter and what happened to that poor man was a disgrace and rightfully so the cop has been charged , however all life's matter and portraying in London breaking all social distancing rule's graffitid ww2 monument's is equally a disgrace.

If they wanted to protest fine adhear to 2m and policy's shows a lack of regard for life's in this country.

Revisionist. Although I see the sentiment.

Anyway, the need to protest and disrupt, even in the middle of a pandemic stresses the importance of the issue. It does need to happen. And the fact that it’s happening right now speaks to just how important it is to us.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter.

If you watch an American programme they make a huge deal about being black or white, whilst here in the UK it's barely mentioned - compare Power to Gangs of London for example.

If you don't want a divided society then don't start by dividing it!

Do you honestly think the black community want to be divided?! You cannot compare the UK to the USA in terms of acceptance. We have a greatly improved society compared to America when it comes to racism which is why you see inclusive casts in TV and films. Racism does still exist over here in the forms I've mentioned in my previous post, it's just more subtle. In america it is widely known it is more previlent and which is why black communities feel the need to have to create shows like power, made by and starring black people because they are often shunned out of roles, underrepresented in general and overlooked. Do not suggest that they want this divide. To do that, is to put the blame on black people and to say they are asking for racism. That is just obsurd. They are divided because the world has divided them from everyone else for decades.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans I do. If you live in a society that cares more about protecting private proprerty than it does about protecting black people, the first thing you're likely to want to do is to turn that world upside down"

The young lady was black, her community had been ruined. She thought both were her community and BLM is important. She didn't think ruining her community would help and it really wasn't helping her

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I don't like your Agenda OP. Especially if you don't say nothing.

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By *arentsgonebadCouple
over a year ago

sheffield

No it doesn't it shows a lack of respect for all other race's , cultures and life's.

To make a statement you don't have to gather and deface monuments of huge historical importance

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By *arentsgonebadCouple
over a year ago

sheffield

Not in the current climate anyway

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

This is totally missing the point and I Dont understand the logic behind arguments like this.

Yes people of all colours Kill eachother but that's not what this is about.

Black on black crime doesn’t exist. It’s a myth perpetrated by racists to justify crimes committed against Black people. Crimes are most likely and most often are committed against people within the same racial group. White on white crime isn’t a national issue even though it accounts for the largest amount of deaths because it’s not real. It’s just crime. Black on black crime is exactly the same and media sensationalising the issue Just makes you think it’s an academic, legitimate term when it’s not.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans

So you would be quite happy for someone to burn your home or business when on a protest?

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By *xyzptlk088Man
over a year ago

Galway

BLM started off as a good idea but was hijacked by people with their own agendas. Pretty much the same as the pound me too movement.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I appreciate your honesty. My partner is an ex police officer and I have a few friends in the job so I see things a bit differently I’d wager.

That’s fair.

Genuinely though, what do you think Black people should do in this situation to get what were asking for?

Make of that what you will"

If I knew the answer to that then I’d be a very rich woman. My initial thoughts are greater transparency for the police as a start. They’ve really tightened up stop search procedures for instance. That’s the right way to go. One of my friends said they’ve made the grounds for searching someone so tight you can’t just stop search someone for drugs if they smell of cannabis, you’ve got to be pretty much nailed on you’ll find something to carry out a search. Make of that what you will (seems a little wild to me). Actually ensuring police officers are prosecuted with the full weight of the law and judiciary if they break the rules too, without people having to protest for that action to be taken. I’ve always found they ‘close ranks’ when one of them messes up, and that gets worse the higher up the rank structure you go according to Wolf. Funny handshakes and backhanders were the norm.

I think classism plays a part too. You touched on it earlier. It’s a very valid position to come at it from. Low level crime is predominantly in lower working class or poverty stricken communities and it creates that vicious cycle we see of offend - prison - release - offend - prison - release. The most heavily policed communities are those that have been left behind and they end up in a rut. Maybe alleviating poverty should be the way forward? I dunno. I’m learning as I go here and I’m no sociologist.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans

So you would be quite happy for someone to burn your home or business when on a protest?"

I don’t believe in private property tbh. But if you mean would I see my house burn if it meant I had a shot at equality. Or my children do. I’d set it on fire myself. Hope that helps.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

In which case, I am guessing you have your matches at the ready

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans

So you would be quite happy for someone to burn your home or business when on a protest?"

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

Many of the businesses that have been destroyed are being the money to rebuild through go fund me pages. That is happening throughout America

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That’s fair.

Genuinely though, what do you think Black people should do in this situation to get what were asking for?

Make of that what you will

I mean yeah we could talk about the police for hours and hours and about what they need to do to improve their relations with Black people. I mean this issue has been since we arrived after windrush (and before) and were criminalised and vilified by the police. History tells us that. But also, on the stop and search thing, I’m sure that’s true but I watched a video of a police officer detaining a black man for a drugs search for no reason. The entire thing was recorded from the start and the officer detained him because he didn’t give her a ‘good enough’ reason for him being outside during covid 19.

Sociology is great, I did my degree in it but it won’t make me an expert. You don’t have to be a sociologist to be aware of what goes on in your world. Your openness to conversation on here is so refreshing.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In which case, I am guessing you have your matches at the ready"

Burning my house down, sacrificing my life, doing anything that I would do for the sake of equality, won’t bring about equality. If I genuinely believed that Governments were committed to doing what they need to dismantle white supremacy I’d have my matches at the ready to burn my house down if need be. But they don’t.

Also, any sustainable anti racist approach needs to be anti capitalist at its core anyway. Same with any feminist approach (which also needs to be anti racist) etc. All these issues intersect. You can’t support black liberation and be pro capitalism. It’s naive.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I am sure the people who's business's and homes that have been destroyed will agree with you , it must be soul destroying for them

There is a video of a young lady in USA telling a group of looters / vandals what she really thinks of this situation as they were ruining her community.

I really don't know what message it is giving by robbing a few pairs of jeans

So you would be quite happy for someone to burn your home or business when on a protest?

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

Many of the businesses that have been destroyed are being the money to rebuild through go fund me pages. That is happening throughout America"

Literally. One business asked for $100,000 And got $600,000. But I haven’t seen a single black life resurrected.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

It's about choosing the lesser if two evils. Which situation will provide the best for the most people.

It is truly upsetting that people can and have lost their homes and livelihoods during protests but change can only come from action. Peaceful action hasn't worked so they are resorting to the same way others have to make themselves be heard.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"In which case, I am guessing you have your matches at the ready

Burning my house down, sacrificing my life, doing anything that I would do for the sake of equality, won’t bring about equality. "

Exactly

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In which case, I am guessing you have your matches at the ready

Burning my house down, sacrificing my life, doing anything that I would do for the sake of equality, won’t bring about equality.

Exactly

But if I thought it would, I would do it. That’s what you’re missing out? Lol.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That’s fair.

Genuinely though, what do you think Black people should do in this situation to get what were asking for?

Make of that what you will

Right back at you. I haven’t had a proper conversation with anyone about this yet, let alone with someone who doesn’t believe in property rights. Even got accused of being an alt right troll the other day for daring to highlight something someone didn’t like

I think I’ve seen the video you’re talking about. The ambulance driver? Someone used that as an example to me in a Facebook group not long back so I had Wolf take a look at it as an ex cop. Apparently that was down to the officer being part of the TSG, a proactive task force trying to tackle knife crime in London. They have really really low grounds for stop searching because of the sheer levels of knife crime happening there. They sometimes have the power to remove face coverings and search people without grounds too, a hangover of the terrorism act (far too authoritarian for me). They’re the only thing making a dent in the knife crime figures apparently. But I agree, would that be anywhere else I would say that’s absolutely not a fair stop search. Context matters I suppose.

So do you think poverty plays a role too?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

Also why are people not considering the violence of racism that isn’t just physical? I’ve been through therapy, I’ve had Anxiety attacks and even tried to do terrible things to myself because of what racism has done to me. Racist violence is so much more than the police being violent towards us, killing us, the state allowing our deaths through measures that disproportionately affect us and put us at risk etc.

In that sense, racists and racism more generally is far more violent than any misguided protester.

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

"In which case, I am guessing you have your matches at the ready

Burning my house down, sacrificing my life, doing anything that I would do for the sake of equality, won’t bring about equality.

Exactly

But if I thought it would, I would do it. That’s what you’re missing out? Lol. "

No. You are missing my point that burning down a house is pointless

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By *naswingdressWoman
over a year ago

Manchester (she/her)

How would anyone suggest that black people and their allies bring about change? Years, decades of protest have fallen mostly on deaf ears. Peaceful protest ignored or condemned.

Rather than condemning the small minority who are violent, what about suggesting ways to bring about change? To stop black people, not just in the US, being targeted disproportionately by authorities and suffering injustice up to and including death?

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

It's about choosing the lesser if two evils. Which situation will provide the best for the most people.

It is truly upsetting that people can and have lost their homes and livelihoods during protests but change can only come from action.."

I don't think the woman I saw this morning will think the same way

Disclaimer just in case my answer of "no" didn't confirm. I am not against any protest for whatever reason , I am against violence/ burning / looting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"In which case, I am guessing you have your matches at the ready

Burning my house down, sacrificing my life, doing anything that I would do for the sake of equality, won’t bring about equality.

Exactly

But if I thought it would, I would do it. That’s what you’re missing out? Lol.

No. You are missing my point that burning down a house is pointless"

I agree it is. But it’s not if you believe it would bring about your goal. I, as an individual don’t think it will. But if I did, I’d do the same. Would you not? The fact that some people think it will is because they’re misguided, possibly not even members of the group in the first place. But my original point was, making this issue about people burning things down neglects the fact that, it’s not destruction of property that is stopping justice from happening so stop derailing conversations and making it about that. (Not you but people generally) the biggest issue here is about racial injustice and I find conversations about method of organising or protest to be completely disingenuous and solely to derail and undermine the real issue.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

It's about choosing the lesser if two evils. Which situation will provide the best for the most people.

It is truly upsetting that people can and have lost their homes and livelihoods during protests but change can only come from action..

I don't think the woman I saw this morning will think the same way

Disclaimer just in case my answer of "no" didn't confirm. I am not against any protest for whatever reason , I am against violence/ burning / looting

Don't worry I read it as so

It comes down to the issue of property vs lives. No one has come up with a way to resolve big issues like this without violent protests.

Unfortunately looting and anarchy comes with big protests as people exploit the situation. No one wants looting

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

I love just seen a video of a load of black people twatting a white old lady in a wheelchair then hitting her with a fire extinguisher ...

It's a jungle out there !!!

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

"Is it just me or anyone else thing all these protesters in the uk are just sheep following what happens in the USA and the news, I can’t imagine anyone in the USA giving a toss about what the uk thinks or does, and if black lives matter so much why not mention the poor security guard killed by looters as he tried to protect the store he worked at! No. You are not alone, in the UK, in thinking that black lives don't matter and that black people should put up with racism or only protest in ways you approve of. However, that doesn't make your attitude right, morally justifiable or attractive. "

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By *ugby 123Couple
Forum Mod
over a year ago

O o O oo

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

It's about choosing the lesser if two evils. Which situation will provide the best for the most people.

It is truly upsetting that people can and have lost their homes and livelihoods during protests but change can only come from action..

I don't think the woman I saw this morning will think the same way

Disclaimer just in case my answer of "no" didn't confirm. I am not against any protest for whatever reason , I am against violence/ burning / looting

Don't worry I read it as so

It comes down to the issue of property vs lives."

It isn't about one thing or the other for me. You don't have to burn down a house to let people know you think what happened to this man is abhorrent

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love just seen a video of a load of black people twatting a white old lady in a wheelchair then hitting her with a fire extinguisher ...

It's a jungle out there !!!"

Would you make the same racist comment if it had been white men.

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"That’s fair.

Genuinely though, what do you think Black people should do in this situation to get what were asking for?

Make of that what you will

So do you think poverty plays a role too? "

Yes, I read about the TSG thing. I saw someone say that they often do whatever they want but this has clarified a lot so thank you for that.

Poverty is a huge factor. Black people but also minoritised groups more generally are disproportionately affected by poverty. And the links between poverty and crime are rarely disputed, what is disputed is sustainable approaches to tackle crime. I’m not a criminologist, so I’m sure I’m no expert but I do think it makes more sense to tackle the causes of crime rather than just offering tougher punishments without routes out of what lead to becoming that criminal anyway. Plus, prisons are pretty much just universities of crime. People are often unaware of what they want from prisons. I think they have a purpose but probably for reform more than anything. Idk

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

"I love just seen a video of a load of black people twatting a white old lady in a wheelchair then hitting her with a fire extinguisher ...

It's a jungle out there !!!

The lady that was stabbing people?

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By (user no longer on site)
over a year ago

The question is would you rather they they continue to be oppressed instead of standing up for themselves?

It's about choosing the lesser if two evils. Which situation will provide the best for the most people.

It is truly upsetting that people can and have lost their homes and livelihoods during protests but change can only come from action..

I don't think the woman I saw this morning will think the same way

Disclaimer just in case my answer of "no" didn't confirm. I am not against any protest for whatever reason , I am against violence/ burning / looting

Don't worry I read it as so

It comes down to the issue of property vs lives.

It isn't about one thing or the other for me. You don't have to burn down a house to let people know you think what happened to this man is abhorrent

It’s not *just* about what happened to George Floyd. That’s a misconception of what the protests are about.

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By *AYENCouple
over a year ago

Lincolnshire

"In the past ten years 163 people have died in uk police custody:

140 white

13 black

10 other

The problem is with how police treat their prisoners, it's not necessarily the race thing it's made out to be. All lives matter.

If you watch an American programme they make a huge deal about being black or white, whilst here in the UK it's barely mentioned - compare Power to Gangs of London for example.

If you don't want a divided society then don't start by dividing it!

I accept my view might not be right, but I can only base my opinion on my life's experiences.

My black ex-wife who came here from Jamaica at the age of 15 has never experienced any institutionalised racism - she has no problem getting jobs and she has worked for some of the oldest and biggest institutions in the UK, she's also clearly black from her name.

I recently asked my 15-year-old mixed-race daughter if she had experienced any racism from the teaching staff, she hasn't.

My two best friends of 30 years or more, one of whom is black, the other Asian, haven't either. As most of my friends are black or Asian I could go on forever.

All the above have experienced racism on a personal level from the occasional twat, but then so have I as a white guy.

Exactly 50% of our very wealthy clients are black or asian, I doubt they would complain about white privilege or lack of opportunity for Blame people.

Although I obviously see colour (who doesn't), I don't know why people make such an issue of it - it's surely when people don't see colour as the defining characteristic that things might improve.

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By *dwalu2Couple
over a year ago

Bristol

‘Your name is big brother,

You say that you're tired of me protesting,

Children dying everyday’

Stevie Wonder wrote that in 1972.

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By *ouple in LancashireCouple
over a year ago

in Lancashire

Apologies OP.

Voting won’t save them. It never has. And black communities ALWAYS vote in their own interests, the rest of America doesn’t.

Totally this..

Grew up in Liverpool and walked as a child down the streets in the centre without knowing whom they are named after, the great and good who made their fortunes due to the slave trade..

Never taught it at school and when I did learn and ask why do we not get told about this, told to shush..

The history of this country has involved some great things but it can only be looked at fully if we don't ignore the bad things we have also done..