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"I suppose to counter the notion that Covid is over a paper( which has also been demonstrated in other studies) of Covid persisting in the body. I posted the URL previously and admin said this was not permitted so this time if you just google Incidence of persistent SARS-CoV-2 gut infection in patients with a history of COVID-19: Insights from endoscopic examination One of the startling findings is that over 35 % of patients had evidence of Covid in their gut mucosa at least 6 months post infection. These patients were clinical normal at sampling . It’s not surprising that Covid is found here as coronavirus’s tend to hide in immuno tolerant locations such as the gut/ eyes/ testicles and brain. The issue with persistence is they remain a stimulus to the immune ( both active and innate)system with deleterious effects over a long period of time. Depletion of T cells can last for prolonged periods. In real terms it is leading to latent viruses but also making patients more susceptible to other infections . So when I see posts of people saying Covid is over and blaming all these colds that everyone is having on immunity debt- just ask your self- how long have we been out of lockdown now. Where is our herd immunity? Why are we having more colds/ sickness now than ever? The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers. Governments are slowly realising the magnitude of the problem, particularly Germany. Covid is not going away and if anything it’s chronic phase is going to be devastating if interventions do not take place soon. My own belief is that the markets will force change because economist are starting to at the work forces shortages due to sickness and its effect on economies " It’s funny you say this.. I’m 34, caught covid in March 2022 and then from there kinda been continuously sick. They are blaming the vaccines but it’s not the case. As of August, I have been nonstop sick and in December I succumbed to Shingles. The doctor was dumbfounded as people in their 30’s don’t get shingles.. it’s kinda rare, then I came down with a strep throat and then caught covid again 7 days later and by fuck was it horrendous.. it led to a hospital suffice to say. I’m slowly getting better now but I do wonder because I have never been so sick in my life.. | |||
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"I suppose to counter the notion that Covid is over a paper( which has also been demonstrated in other studies) of Covid persisting in the body. I posted the URL previously and admin said this was not permitted so this time if you just google Incidence of persistent SARS-CoV-2 gut infection in patients with a history of COVID-19: Insights from endoscopic examination One of the startling findings is that over 35 % of patients had evidence of Covid in their gut mucosa at least 6 months post infection. These patients were clinical normal at sampling . It’s not surprising that Covid is found here as coronavirus’s tend to hide in immuno tolerant locations such as the gut/ eyes/ testicles and brain. The issue with persistence is they remain a stimulus to the immune ( both active and innate)system with deleterious effects over a long period of time. Depletion of T cells can last for prolonged periods. In real terms it is leading to latent viruses but also making patients more susceptible to other infections . So when I see posts of people saying Covid is over and blaming all these colds that everyone is having on immunity debt- just ask your self- how long have we been out of lockdown now. Where is our herd immunity? Why are we having more colds/ sickness now than ever? The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers. Governments are slowly realising the magnitude of the problem, particularly Germany. Covid is not going away and if anything it’s chronic phase is going to be devastating if interventions do not take place soon. My own belief is that the markets will force change because economist are starting to at the work forces shortages due to sickness and its effect on economies It’s funny you say this.. I’m 34, caught covid in March 2022 and then from there kinda been continuously sick. They are blaming the vaccines but it’s not the case. As of August, I have been nonstop sick and in December I succumbed to Shingles. The doctor was dumbfounded as people in their 30’s don’t get shingles.. it’s kinda rare, then I came down with a strep throat and then caught covid again 7 days later and by fuck was it horrendous.. it led to a hospital suffice to say. I’m slowly getting better now but I do wonder because I have never been so sick in my life.." Relative to HIV CD4 levels are lowered to a similar level where with CD8 it’s even lower than HIV with a Covid infection | |||
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"Do you think this was chinas plan " Not at all - you could argue that although the original Wuhan strain came from there we gave them back Beta, Delta and Omicron- More importantly they are now using Azvudine (which is used to treat HIV) to treat Covid cases so maybe they are moving quicker with treatment regimes than Western countries | |||
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"No one seems to be talking about this and if they do people blame lockdowns and the vax. Covid seems to be something that just keeps on giving, apart from what you mention there are lots of other conditions that seem to be a complication of Covid, heart problems being one of them. You have to declare if you have had moderate or severe Covid to join the Army now so even they know there is a lasting effect for some people. My Grandkids since October have had one thing or another one after the other but are told to go into school if feeling better, one did, then most of the class and then the teacher were off the following few days. That obviously then spreads to the wider community. If all the teachers are off then we could be home schooling again so it seems an odd thing to ask parents to send kids in while still ill. I think once they realise half the workforce is off work and it is becoming an issue about the economy they will make some noise but until then, lets infect everyone. I feel sorry for the kids who will be dealing with the after affects of covid for years because people think it is over or it doesn't matter if you catch it."  - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science."
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it "Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species | |||
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"No one seems to be talking about this and if they do people blame lockdowns and the vax. Covid seems to be something that just keeps on giving, apart from what you mention there are lots of other conditions that seem to be a complication of Covid, heart problems being one of them. You have to declare if you have had moderate or severe Covid to join the Army now so even they know there is a lasting effect for some people. My Grandkids since October have had one thing or another one after the other but are told to go into school if feeling better, one did, then most of the class and then the teacher were off the following few days. That obviously then spreads to the wider community. If all the teachers are off then we could be home schooling again so it seems an odd thing to ask parents to send kids in while still ill. I think once they realise half the workforce is off work and it is becoming an issue about the economy they will make some noise but until then, lets infect everyone. I feel sorry for the kids who will be dealing with the after affects of covid for years because people think it is over or it doesn't matter if you catch it." The trouble is the government in its infinite wisdom has declared Covid over. They can’t possibly be seen to acknowledge it’s still a problem or their rich friends might start losing money again. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species"There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020). They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people."That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor."Indeed. And we just keep going along with it, for some reason. We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing. Profit over health. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health."Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch"It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore. Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid  | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch
It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore.
Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid "Business executives really do find it difficult to understand why minimum wage staff don’t put shareholder value above all else! | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch
It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore.
Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid
Business executives really do find it difficult to understand why minimum wage staff don’t put shareholder value above all else!"What they also fear is that business regulations are likely to change to make clean air ( HEPA filtered) mandatory because the government knows will have a huge effect on transmission rates and they will realise that the need to mitigate more against Covid to maintain or increase productivity | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch
It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore.
Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid
Business executives really do find it difficult to understand why minimum wage staff don’t put shareholder value above all else!
What they also fear is that business regulations are likely to change to make clean air ( HEPA filtered) mandatory because the government knows will have a huge effect on transmission rates and they will realise that the need to mitigate more against Covid to maintain or increase productivity
"Seems penny wise and pound foolish. Lots of stuff is reduced by HEPA filtration - surely it would have knock on effects for customers being well enough to come in store, staff being well enough to work after training investment, etc. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch
It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore.
Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid
Business executives really do find it difficult to understand why minimum wage staff don’t put shareholder value above all else!
What they also fear is that business regulations are likely to change to make clean air ( HEPA filtered) mandatory because the government knows will have a huge effect on transmission rates and they will realise that the need to mitigate more against Covid to maintain or increase productivity
Seems penny wise and pound foolish.
Lots of stuff is reduced by HEPA filtration - surely it would have knock on effects for customers being well enough to come in store, staff being well enough to work after training investment, etc."That doesn’t fit in to the ‘doing the least possible to make the most money possible’ playbook though. Long term investment in anything other than the bare minimum is shockingly absent in businesses run to increase shareholder value. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch
It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore.
Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid
Business executives really do find it difficult to understand why minimum wage staff don’t put shareholder value above all else!
What they also fear is that business regulations are likely to change to make clean air ( HEPA filtered) mandatory because the government knows will have a huge effect on transmission rates and they will realise that the need to mitigate more against Covid to maintain or increase productivity
Seems penny wise and pound foolish.
Lots of stuff is reduced by HEPA filtration - surely it would have knock on effects for customers being well enough to come in store, staff being well enough to work after training investment, etc.
That doesn’t fit in to the ‘doing the least possible to make the most money possible’ playbook though. Long term investment in anything other than the bare minimum is shockingly absent in businesses run to increase shareholder value."I wouldn't mind if they were fucking around and finding out with only their lives and profits. If they're going to fuck around with us while they're at it... I mind very much. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch
It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore.
Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid
Business executives really do find it difficult to understand why minimum wage staff don’t put shareholder value above all else!
What they also fear is that business regulations are likely to change to make clean air ( HEPA filtered) mandatory because the government knows will have a huge effect on transmission rates and they will realise that the need to mitigate more against Covid to maintain or increase productivity
Seems penny wise and pound foolish.
Lots of stuff is reduced by HEPA filtration - surely it would have knock on effects for customers being well enough to come in store, staff being well enough to work after training investment, etc.
That doesn’t fit in to the ‘doing the least possible to make the most money possible’ playbook though. Long term investment in anything other than the bare minimum is shockingly absent in businesses run to increase shareholder value.
I wouldn't mind if they were fucking around and finding out with only their lives and profits.
If they're going to fuck around with us while they're at it... I mind very much."We poor are expendable. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people.
That pretty much encapsulates the rich’s attitude to the health of the poor.
Indeed.
And we just keep going along with it, for some reason.
We've seen signs in this country, too. People worrying about the rental profits of inner city landlords, sort of thing.
Profit over health.
Heaven forfend that the super rich landlords of Canary Wharf (and owners of Pret) feel the pinch
It was an American sandwich company, but they recently bemoaned that no one has pride in working for shareholder profits anymore.
Well, no. I can't see why people working in a sandwich shop (with or without the risk of disease) should give a solitary fuck about the profits of shareholders, unless they have a stake themselves. Heaven fucking forbid
Business executives really do find it difficult to understand why minimum wage staff don’t put shareholder value above all else!
What they also fear is that business regulations are likely to change to make clean air ( HEPA filtered) mandatory because the government knows will have a huge effect on transmission rates and they will realise that the need to mitigate more against Covid to maintain or increase productivity
Seems penny wise and pound foolish.
Lots of stuff is reduced by HEPA filtration - surely it would have knock on effects for customers being well enough to come in store, staff being well enough to work after training investment, etc.
That doesn’t fit in to the ‘doing the least possible to make the most money possible’ playbook though. Long term investment in anything other than the bare minimum is shockingly absent in businesses run to increase shareholder value.
I wouldn't mind if they were fucking around and finding out with only their lives and profits.
If they're going to fuck around with us while they're at it... I mind very much.
We poor are expendable."Only up to a point- there are many over 50 with quite considerable pension funds in most developed countries if they start drawing down their pensions 5-10 years sooner than expected it will create a huge cluster fuck of panic amongst hedge fund managers . That and Labour shortages will forces governments to act | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. " Jon Burn Murdoch writes elegant and fascinating articles in the FT on the economy and has written regarding the increases in inactivity due to Chronic illness. ( up 28% since 2019)The major contributing factor is increased waiting times on the NHS( which in part are due to staff being off ill through Covid). But these figures are also increasing slowly in other countries whose health care system is much more robust than the NHS. Harvard published a study last year which projected the cost of Covid in the long term at 3.7 trillion or 11K US per capita- which are truly eye watering figures the Federal Reserve paper found that, compared with people without prior COVID infection, people with long COVID (defined conservatively as those with symptoms more than 12 weeks after virus exposure): Were 10 percentage points less likely to be employed Work 50% fewer hours Experienced greater impact in their employment status and work hours So I summary I would say you may have not seen any change ………yet. | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. " I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening. | |||
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"Whose notion is it that covid is over? The pandemic is, yes; the virus, no. One can only hope it becomes just one of the number of Corona viruses that cause the common cold. The silver lining about a pandemic is that research can be carried out on a large scale, so it's a grand time to learn things (about our immune systems, virus sequelae, treatments, the virus itself and, I'm sure, other things) that may help us in the future and our future generations. I wonder whether the research mentioned in the first post has discovered something novel, or whether we will find out other pathogens actually act and have acted similarly. It's a time to increase our knowledge exponentially. Of course no-one would have wished for the pandemic, but it occurred, let's learn what we can." With regard to coronaviruses, yes they have acted similarly in other species. With regard to other pathogens affecting our immune system see HIV- infact some of the leading LC researchers in the US have also researched HIV in the past and see similarities | |||
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"Whose notion is it that covid is over? The pandemic is, yes; the virus, no. One can only hope it becomes just one of the number of Corona viruses that cause the common cold. The silver lining about a pandemic is that research can be carried out on a large scale, so it's a grand time to learn things (about our immune systems, virus sequelae, treatments, the virus itself and, I'm sure, other things) that may help us in the future and our future generations. I wonder whether the research mentioned in the first post has discovered something novel, or whether we will find out other pathogens actually act and have acted similarly. It's a time to increase our knowledge exponentially. Of course no-one would have wished for the pandemic, but it occurred, let's learn what we can. With regard to coronaviruses, yes they have acted similarly in other species. With regard to other pathogens affecting our immune system see HIV- infact some of the leading LC researchers in the US have also researched HIV in the past and see similarities " I think what has yet to be grasped is the scale of the problem - the study show that potentially large numbers of the population are harbouring Covid as it is slowly but quietly damaging their immune systems | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening." It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s." If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you. | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks" Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining. | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you." I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining." Polly, I'll say it before an anti vaxer does: there are people who have suffered due to the vaccine. I'm sure someone has the stats. | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining." you do talk bollox though polly, i remember you saying hundreds of thousands would be infected because of the crowds at the euro final at wembley and nothing of the sort happend, you been roght about some things and scaremongering about other things, unless your a professional in viruses your just like any other punter on here giving your opinion and nothing else | |||
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"I suppose to counter the notion that Covid is over a paper( which has also been demonstrated in other studies) of Covid persisting in the body. I posted the URL previously and admin said this was not permitted so this time if you just google Incidence of persistent SARS-CoV-2 gut infection in patients with a history of COVID-19: Insights from endoscopic examination One of the startling findings is that over 35 % of patients had evidence of Covid in their gut mucosa at least 6 months post infection. These patients were clinical normal at sampling . It’s not surprising that Covid is found here as coronavirus’s tend to hide in immuno tolerant locations such as the gut/ eyes/ testicles and brain. The issue with persistence is they remain a stimulus to the immune ( both active and innate)system with deleterious effects over a long period of time. Depletion of T cells can last for prolonged periods. In real terms it is leading to latent viruses but also making patients more susceptible to other infections . So when I see posts of people saying Covid is over and blaming all these colds that everyone is having on immunity debt- just ask your self- how long have we been out of lockdown now. Where is our herd immunity? Why are we having more colds/ sickness now than ever? The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers. Governments are slowly realising the magnitude of the problem, particularly Germany. Covid is not going away and if anything it’s chronic phase is going to be devastating if interventions do not take place soon. My own belief is that the markets will force change because economist are starting to at the work forces shortages due to sickness and its effect on economies " I don't doubt there is more to it. There are several problems though. One is the justified and complete distrust of information provided by "trusted" sources. Two is, what in reality can be done to change the course. Thirdly it's really hard to convince someone that they need to worry about something which presents no symptoms, when the outcomes are so very different for everyone. There's more than a hint of emperors new clothes about this journey. Lastly it's been weaponised and "the peasants" are revolting. Now... Worry about something that someone I don't know nor trust tells me I should worry about, can do nothing about and watch while they make money and my economy crumbles. Or... Enjoy the sunshine and try to live my best and happiest life and worry about the things I can change.? | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research." OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"? | |||
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"I suppose to counter the notion that Covid is over a paper( which has also been demonstrated in other studies) of Covid persisting in the body. I posted the URL previously and admin said this was not permitted so this time if you just google Incidence of persistent SARS-CoV-2 gut infection in patients with a history of COVID-19: Insights from endoscopic examination One of the startling findings is that over 35 % of patients had evidence of Covid in their gut mucosa at least 6 months post infection. These patients were clinical normal at sampling . It’s not surprising that Covid is found here as coronavirus’s tend to hide in immuno tolerant locations such as the gut/ eyes/ testicles and brain. The issue with persistence is they remain a stimulus to the immune ( both active and innate)system with deleterious effects over a long period of time. Depletion of T cells can last for prolonged periods. In real terms it is leading to latent viruses but also making patients more susceptible to other infections . So when I see posts of people saying Covid is over and blaming all these colds that everyone is having on immunity debt- just ask your self- how long have we been out of lockdown now. Where is our herd immunity? Why are we having more colds/ sickness now than ever? The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers. Governments are slowly realising the magnitude of the problem, particularly Germany. Covid is not going away and if anything it’s chronic phase is going to be devastating if interventions do not take place soon. My own belief is that the markets will force change because economist are starting to at the work forces shortages due to sickness and its effect on economies I don't doubt there is more to it. There are several problems though. One is the justified and complete distrust of information provided by "trusted" sources. Two is, what in reality can be done to change the course. Thirdly it's really hard to convince someone that they need to worry about something which presents no symptoms, when the outcomes are so very different for everyone. There's more than a hint of emperors new clothes about this journey. Lastly it's been weaponised and "the peasants" are revolting. Now... Worry about something that someone I don't know nor trust tells me I should worry about, can do nothing about and watch while they make money and my economy crumbles. Or... Enjoy the sunshine and try to live my best and happiest life and worry about the things I can change.? " ... so politicians lied during 2020, therefore fuck experts and eat cake? cool. what could possibly go wrong. | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks" This . | |||
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"Isnt this a swingers site ffs" funny how no one has said this about the debate going on in the lounge about the existence of god | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?" Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. " So people are economically inactive during a cost of living crisis for funsies? | |||
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"This isn’t news. Everything is persistent in peoples bodies for months and even years. Common colds, mild bacterial infections and even certain fluids from semen (yup). " You've heard of blood, kidneys, lungs, yeah? So what makes you say say that? | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? ThanksThis ."I meant. I only agree with the first 2 points and not the last one there about the government. | |||
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"This isn’t news. Everything is persistent in peoples bodies for months and even years. Common colds, mild bacterial infections and even certain fluids from semen (yup). There’s really no need to blow this out of proportion. It’s to be expected." The issue is that Covid is directly affecting our immune systems in a way other viruses do not is a very deleterious manner in fact Covid is causing re emergence of these other viruses and also probably TB | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. " It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved. This is a classic tip of ice berg scenario and because there is a potential lag in years of between infection and real life consequences there it is a difficult explaining outcomes as a result but that does not mean damage is occurring in the immune systems of apparently normal healthy people. Ask yourself why so many drugs used for HIV treatment ( and not influenza antivirals) are now currently be trialled for Covid ? | |||
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"This isn’t news. Everything is persistent in peoples bodies for months and even years. Common colds, mild bacterial infections and even certain fluids from semen (yup). There’s really no need to blow this out of proportion. It’s to be expected. The issue is that Covid is directly affecting our immune systems in a way other viruses do not is a very deleterious manner in fact Covid is causing re emergence of these other viruses and also probably TB" How is COVID causing re-emergence of other pathogens? How do we know other viruses don't act similarly? Disease sequelae IS known (I am anecdotal evidence  ). | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... " How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal. | |||
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"This isn’t news. Everything is persistent in peoples bodies for months and even years. Common colds, mild bacterial infections and even certain fluids from semen (yup). There’s really no need to blow this out of proportion. It’s to be expected. The issue is that Covid is directly affecting our immune systems in a way other viruses do not is a very deleterious manner in fact Covid is causing re emergence of these other viruses and also probably TB How is COVID causing re-emergence of other pathogens? How do we know other viruses don't act similarly? Disease sequelae IS known (I am anecdotal evidence )."There are studies worldwide several pathogens But in particular Shingles- Auckland study- advising people get a shingles vaccine TB- several world wide but already shown that it occurs with MERS so not a surprising result The mechanism- suppression of Lymphocyte function- reducing CD4 and CD8 counts( see HIV) . Other latent viruses do not have this effect. It is postulated that the reason is due to the structure of Coronavirus’s and their spike proteins are highly stimulatory/ antigenic to the immune system. | |||
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"I suppose to counter the notion that Covid is over a paper( which has also been demonstrated in other studies) of Covid persisting in the body. I posted the URL previously and admin said this was not permitted so this time if you just google Incidence of persistent SARS-CoV-2 gut infection in patients with a history of COVID-19: Insights from endoscopic examination One of the startling findings is that over 35 % of patients had evidence of Covid in their gut mucosa at least 6 months post infection. These patients were clinical normal at sampling . It’s not surprising that Covid is found here as coronavirus’s tend to hide in immuno tolerant locations such as the gut/ eyes/ testicles and brain. The issue with persistence is they remain a stimulus to the immune ( both active and innate)system with deleterious effects over a long period of time. Depletion of T cells can last for prolonged periods. In real terms it is leading to latent viruses but also making patients more susceptible to other infections . So when I see posts of people saying Covid is over and blaming all these colds that everyone is having on immunity debt- just ask your self- how long have we been out of lockdown now. Where is our herd immunity? Why are we having more colds/ sickness now than ever? The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers. Governments are slowly realising the magnitude of the problem, particularly Germany. Covid is not going away and if anything it’s chronic phase is going to be devastating if interventions do not take place soon. My own belief is that the markets will force change because economist are starting to at the work forces shortages due to sickness and its effect on economies I don't doubt there is more to it. There are several problems though. One is the justified and complete distrust of information provided by "trusted" sources. Two is, what in reality can be done to change the course. Thirdly it's really hard to convince someone that they need to worry about something which presents no symptoms, when the outcomes are so very different for everyone. There's more than a hint of emperors new clothes about this journey. Lastly it's been weaponised and "the peasants" are revolting. Now... Worry about something that someone I don't know nor trust tells me I should worry about, can do nothing about and watch while they make money and my economy crumbles. Or... Enjoy the sunshine and try to live my best and happiest life and worry about the things I can change.? ... so politicians lied during 2020, therefore fuck experts and eat cake? cool. what could possibly go wrong." Why do you find it necessary to be so offensive to anyone you disagree with? | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal." I am sorry to hear about your auto immune condition. The markers used to detect at auto immune disease which show up in a blood work eg ANA, Not decreased CD4 and CD8 levels as seen with Covid. One is autoimmune , what I am describing is immune deficiency. | |||
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"This isn’t news. Everything is persistent in peoples bodies for months and even years. Common colds, mild bacterial infections and even certain fluids from semen (yup). There’s really no need to blow this out of proportion. It’s to be expected. The issue is that Covid is directly affecting our immune systems in a way other viruses do not is a very deleterious manner in fact Covid is causing re emergence of these other viruses and also probably TB How is COVID causing re-emergence of other pathogens? How do we know other viruses don't act similarly? Disease sequelae IS known (I am anecdotal evidence ).
There are studies worldwide several pathogens
But in particular
Shingles- Auckland study- advising people get a shingles vaccine
TB- several world wide but already shown that it occurs with MERS so not a surprising result
The mechanism- suppression of Lymphocyte function- reducing CD4 and CD8 counts( see HIV) .
Other latent viruses do not have this effect.
It is postulated that the reason is due to the structure of Coronavirus’s and their spike proteins are highly stimulatory/ antigenic to the immune system.
"Sorry that's not a good enough explanation. TB has been on the rise long before COVID, due to immigrants not having the BCG vaccines. There was an NHS drive for this. Shingles, the increase is theorised as due to the ageing population and decreased immunity (hence free shingles jabs for the 70+ and 50+ with weakened immune systems). Before you blame COVID for weakened immune systems, those people were encouraged to stay home before the lockdown and before vaccines. Stress can trigger shingles and let's face it COVID, lockdown, war, cost of living crisis, we are living in unprecedented times. By the way suppression of white blood cells will not cause infections but will delay recovery. Which is why immuno suppressed patients stay away from people with infections. | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal. I am sorry to hear about your auto immune condition. The markers used to detect at auto immune disease which show up in a blood work eg ANA, Not decreased CD4 and CD8 levels as seen with Covid. One is autoimmune , what I am describing is immune deficiency. " It was an autoimmune response (horrid terminology), I prefer MY terminology of immune mediated. I was first diagnosed with atypical lymphocytic meningitis (with decreased CD4 and CD8 in the CSF). So nothing to do with COVID exclusively. | |||
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"This isn’t news. Everything is persistent in peoples bodies for months and even years. Common colds, mild bacterial infections and even certain fluids from semen (yup). You've heard of blood, kidneys, lungs, yeah? So what makes you say say that?" What? | |||
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"This isn’t news. Everything is persistent in peoples bodies for months and even years. Common colds, mild bacterial infections and even certain fluids from semen (yup). You've heard of blood, kidneys, lungs, yeah? So what makes you say say that? What?" From where did you get your info that everything is persistent? | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal. I am sorry to hear about your auto immune condition. The markers used to detect at auto immune disease which show up in a blood work eg ANA, Not decreased CD4 and CD8 levels as seen with Covid. One is autoimmune , what I am describing is immune deficiency. It was an autoimmune response (horrid terminology), I prefer MY terminology of immune mediated. I was first diagnosed with atypical lymphocytic meningitis (with decreased CD4 and CD8 in the CSF). So nothing to do with COVID exclusively." Ok I take you point- and I hope you have recovered well. So yours relates to the CSF , I am talking about CD4 and CD8 in circulating blood. Your is a specific location affecting your central nervous system in a very deleterious manner- Covid is affecting these levels in whole blood ( not necessarily CSF). So I take it definitely yours is autoimmune specifically in the CNS/CSF but Covid is slowly depleting T lymphocytes all around the body | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal. I am sorry to hear about your auto immune condition. The markers used to detect at auto immune disease which show up in a blood work eg ANA, Not decreased CD4 and CD8 levels as seen with Covid. One is autoimmune , what I am describing is immune deficiency. It was an autoimmune response (horrid terminology), I prefer MY terminology of immune mediated. I was first diagnosed with atypical lymphocytic meningitis (with decreased CD4 and CD8 in the CSF). So nothing to do with COVID exclusively. Ok I take you point- and I hope you have recovered well. So yours relates to the CSF , I am talking about CD4 and CD8 in circulating blood. Your is a specific location affecting your central nervous system in a very deleterious manner- Covid is affecting these levels in whole blood ( not necessarily CSF). So I take it definitely yours is autoimmune specifically in the CNS/CSF but Covid is slowly depleting T lymphocytes all around the body" If Covid was autoimmune- why are more antiretroviral drugs ( ala HIV)being used and tested for it | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal. I am sorry to hear about your auto immune condition. The markers used to detect at auto immune disease which show up in a blood work eg ANA, Not decreased CD4 and CD8 levels as seen with Covid. One is autoimmune , what I am describing is immune deficiency. It was an autoimmune response (horrid terminology), I prefer MY terminology of immune mediated. I was first diagnosed with atypical lymphocytic meningitis (with decreased CD4 and CD8 in the CSF). So nothing to do with COVID exclusively. Ok I take you point- and I hope you have recovered well. So yours relates to the CSF , I am talking about CD4 and CD8 in circulating blood. Your is a specific location affecting your central nervous system in a very deleterious manner- Covid is affecting these levels in whole blood ( not necessarily CSF). So I take it definitely yours is autoimmune specifically in the CNS/CSF but Covid is slowly depleting T lymphocytes all around the body If Covid was autoimmune- why are more antiretroviral drugs ( ala HIV)being used and tested for it " I do not have an autoimmune condition. My immune system attacked (past tense) my brain. My hypothesis is some of the damage attributed to COVID maybe due to damage caused by the immune system. Anaphylaxis and sepsis are immune mediated (so you can see, if the immune system over reacts and turns against itself - it's very damaging. | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal. I am sorry to hear about your auto immune condition. The markers used to detect at auto immune disease which show up in a blood work eg ANA, Not decreased CD4 and CD8 levels as seen with Covid. One is autoimmune , what I am describing is immune deficiency. It was an autoimmune response (horrid terminology), I prefer MY terminology of immune mediated. I was first diagnosed with atypical lymphocytic meningitis (with decreased CD4 and CD8 in the CSF). So nothing to do with COVID exclusively. Ok I take you point- and I hope you have recovered well. So yours relates to the CSF , I am talking about CD4 and CD8 in circulating blood. Your is a specific location affecting your central nervous system in a very deleterious manner- Covid is affecting these levels in whole blood ( not necessarily CSF). So I take it definitely yours is autoimmune specifically in the CNS/CSF but Covid is slowly depleting T lymphocytes all around the body If Covid was autoimmune- why are more antiretroviral drugs ( ala HIV)being used and tested for it I do not have an autoimmune condition. My immune system attacked (past tense) my brain. My hypothesis is some of the damage attributed to COVID maybe due to damage caused by the immune system. Anaphylaxis and sepsis are immune mediated (so you can see, if the immune system over reacts and turns against itself - it's very damaging." To again ask the question and regarding your hypothesis- why are more and more anti retroviral drugs being used to treat Covid and its effects rather than treatments used to treat autoimmune conditions ( eg monoclonal antibodies , immunosuppressive drugs)? I certainly don’t disagree that autoimmune conditions do not exist they most certainly do and some probably have viral causes/ triggers . Some are immediate and some do not manifest Themselves till weeks after exposure to a particular antigen. Some conditions will resolve with short courses of medication / some require life long treatment but all involve suppressing the immune system sometimes well after expose to the antigen so you quite often are treating the sequelae of exposure rather than the cause because often the trigger is not known. | |||
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"Is there any evidence that, ‘we having more colds/ sickness now than ever’? I work in a public facing environment of the type you mention and have seen no evidence that people are any more, or frequently sick or ill than they have ever been. Of course that is just anecdotal not data too. I find it somewhat ironic that you ask for evidence while using an anecdote as your evidence it isn't happening.It was supposed to be ironic. I was making the point that my evidence free anecdote is as useless as the OP’s. If you don't recognise the citation of an academic paper (which, as you know, can't be linked here due to forum rules), I don't know what to tell you.I read the paper. Did you? It absolutely does not give evidence for the OP’s assertion that, ‘ We are having more colds and sickness’ and ‘The most vulnerable workforces are being particularly hard hit (public facing) especially the NHS and Teachers.’ It is actually a study with a tiny sample size, 166, from Egypt which is limited to the observation of the presence of SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles in the gut. That’s it. Nothing about the UK, teachers, clinicians, sickness rates increasing etc. It is not evidence for anything other than the conclusion the study comes to which is, and this is verbatim, Gut mucosal tissues can act as a long-term reservoir for SARS-CoV-2, retaining viral particles for months following the primary COVID-19 infection. Smokers and individuals with diabetes may be at an increased risk of persistent viral gut infection. These findings provide insights into the dynamics of SARS-CoV-2 infection in the gut and have implications for further research. OK. One, does viral persistence sound like a good thing to you? Two, did you see further down thread where he provided further sources for his "assertions"?Whether viral persistence is good bad or indifferent is irrelevant. It is not evidence for what the OP claimed. Nor is anything he subsequently posted. He mage a very straightforward claim that we are we are having more colds/sickness than ever. all more unwell than ever, particularly in schools and the NHS. The fact that some people have long covid and some of those people are economically inactive is not evidence that the population is having more colds and getting sick more often. There has been lots of discussion in newspapers and more generally amongst the public about whether sickness is more prevalent but doctors seem to be suggesting whilst there may be a perception of this and even perhaps some truth in these perceptions there is no actual evidence because there is no large scale data collection for common illnesses. There doesn’t seem to be any evidence that covid itself has left us with a weaker immune system but rather the lack of mixing during the pandemic may have had that effect. It is also thought we have all become more attuned to respiratory illnesses post covid so notice them more. Again, all speculation. It’s is completely relevant if viral persistence is good or bad- as in the case of Covid- it is immunosuppressive- as stated already it suppresses CD4 and CD8 function. Take the example of HIV- it takes 5-7 years from the initial infection before its effects are clinically seen but that doesn’t mean it’s not silently causing damage. We are being subjected to wave after wave of covid infections so the challenge is not changing so it’s not surprising to see numbers of economically inactive rise. As to the effects of the vaccine - I would ask people to look at mammalian studies namely Syrian hamster, Macaque’s and white tail deer on Covid - all showing similar pathology to humans and viral persistence without any vaccines being used. The evidence is certainly there in terms of the mechanism of how Covid damages the immune system( not forgetting Cardio vascular/ Neurological) particularly when persistence is involved... How do you know it's not the immune system causing the damage? After the Spanish flu there were copious cases of encephalitis lethargica (a type of encephalitis that causes hypersomnolence - IE a swollen brain causing excessive sleeping, IE neuro), COVID has resulted in encephalitis. The enceph society reports of resurging cases of enceph lethargica. My own mimics enceph lethargica. Mine was caused by an over-reaction of my immune system to a mild respiratory infection (a year before COVID). An autoimmune response. Not every case will have "virus persistence". Time will reveal. I am sorry to hear about your auto immune condition. The markers used to detect at auto immune disease which show up in a blood work eg ANA, Not decreased CD4 and CD8 levels as seen with Covid. One is autoimmune , what I am describing is immune deficiency. It was an autoimmune response (horrid terminology), I prefer MY terminology of immune mediated. I was first diagnosed with atypical lymphocytic meningitis (with decreased CD4 and CD8 in the CSF). So nothing to do with COVID exclusively. Ok I take you point- and I hope you have recovered well. So yours relates to the CSF , I am talking about CD4 and CD8 in circulating blood. Your is a specific location affecting your central nervous system in a very deleterious manner- Covid is affecting these levels in whole blood ( not necessarily CSF). So I take it definitely yours is autoimmune specifically in the CNS/CSF but Covid is slowly depleting T lymphocytes all around the body If Covid was autoimmune- why are more antiretroviral drugs ( ala HIV)being used and tested for it I do not have an autoimmune condition. My immune system attacked (past tense) my brain. My hypothesis is some of the damage attributed to COVID maybe due to damage caused by the immune system. Anaphylaxis and sepsis are immune mediated (so you can see, if the immune system over reacts and turns against itself - it's very damaging. To again ask the question and regarding your hypothesis- why are more and more anti retroviral drugs being used to treat Covid and its effects rather than treatments used to treat autoimmune conditions ( eg monoclonal antibodies , immunosuppressive drugs)? I certainly don’t disagree that autoimmune conditions do not exist they most certainly do and some probably have viral causes/ triggers . Some are immediate and some do not manifest Themselves till weeks after exposure to a particular antigen. Some conditions will resolve with short courses of medication / some require life long treatment but all involve suppressing the immune system sometimes well after expose to the antigen so you quite often are treating the sequelae of exposure rather than the cause because often the trigger is not known. " I wish I hadn't used the word autoimmune! Hyperglycaemia (type I diabetes mellitus) insulin. Anaphylaxis - adrenalin. Sepsis broad antibiotics until the bacterium known, fluids. Enceph - steroids (a coincidence that dexamethasone worked to treat COVID in ITU? NO, an over-reaction immune system produces hyper inflammation). | |||
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"In simple terms, an over-reaction immune system does not require immune suppression drugs. I am NOT calling COVID an autoimmune disease. I'm hypothesising an immune mediated event occurred after getting the infection (I don't need to hypothesise as it happens. My hypothesis is that it has occurred more than is known, unfortunately, you cannot test for that after the acute stage)." You can test for markers for immune mediate disease - anti nuclear antibodies, interleukins/ cytokines in acute, sub acute stages. What you are hypothesising does occur after an event however T cell depletion/ exhaustion occurs in chronic infections and cancer where there is a persistent stimulus rather than a one off or period of short exposure that occurs with some immune mediated conditions . Again I ask why are antiretrovirals being used more and more in Covid treatments? In autoimmune conditions- if it’s possible to remove the trigger then great - you solve the problem but if you cannot then you have to treat symptomatically. | |||
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"In simple terms, an over-reaction immune system does not require immune suppression drugs. I am NOT calling COVID an autoimmune disease. I'm hypothesising an immune mediated event occurred after getting the infection (I don't need to hypothesise as it happens. My hypothesis is that it has occurred more than is known, unfortunately, you cannot test for that after the acute stage). You can test for markers for immune mediate disease - anti nuclear antibodies, interleukins/ cytokines in acute, sub acute stages. What you are hypothesising does occur after an event however T cell depletion/ exhaustion occurs in chronic infections and cancer where there is a persistent stimulus rather than a one off or period of short exposure that occurs with some immune mediated conditions . Again I ask why are antiretrovirals being used more and more in Covid treatments? In autoimmune conditions- if it’s possible to remove the trigger then great - you solve the problem but if you cannot then you have to treat symptomatically. " What's your qualification in this? | |||
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"In simple terms, an over-reaction immune system does not require immune suppression drugs. I am NOT calling COVID an autoimmune disease. I'm hypothesising an immune mediated event occurred after getting the infection (I don't need to hypothesise as it happens. My hypothesis is that it has occurred more than is known, unfortunately, you cannot test for that after the acute stage). You can test for markers for immune mediate disease - anti nuclear antibodies, interleukins/ cytokines in acute, sub acute stages. What you are hypothesising does occur after an event however T cell depletion/ exhaustion occurs in chronic infections and cancer where there is a persistent stimulus rather than a one off or period of short exposure that occurs with some immune mediated conditions . Again I ask why are antiretrovirals being used more and more in Covid treatments? In autoimmune conditions- if it’s possible to remove the trigger then great - you solve the problem but if you cannot then you have to treat symptomatically. What's your qualification in this?" Master’s level in Microbiology and 25 years of experience dealing with infectious diseases And yours? | |||
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"What antiretrovirals are being prescribed?" zidovudine in China commercial the biggest Plenty others in research including cobicistat from Bristol Uni | |||
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"What antiretrovirals are being prescribed? zidovudine in China commercial the biggest Plenty others in research including cobicistat from Bristol Uni " Ok I half expected you to mention ritonavir as it's used in HIV therapy. I had my argument ready | |||
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"Well it maybe used in the future. If it goes anything like HIV treatment then cocktails will be required to prevent resistance " It is currently being used. | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining." And people say the "anti vaxers" say some crazy stuff.. | |||
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"Great, some fab "experts" arguing, love it  "Discussing. | |||
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"Great, some fab "experts" arguing, love it
Discussing."I would ‘nt consider myself an ‘expert ‘ relative to what those in the field of immunology and in particular T cell immunology are studying at the moment. It is truly groundbreaking and has relevance to all of us. | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining. And people say the "anti vaxers" say some crazy stuff.." See study - if 37% of healthy people have evidence of Covid in their gut- then this has huge implications for the human population as a whole- it’s far from being crazy- it’s rather worrying | |||
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"Well it maybe used in the future. If it goes anything like HIV treatment then cocktails will be required to prevent resistance It is currently being used." Used for HIV or for Covid? | |||
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"Great, some fab "experts" arguing, love it
Discussing.
I would ‘nt consider myself an ‘expert ‘ relative to what those in the field of immunology and in particular T cell immunology are studying at the moment. It is truly groundbreaking and has relevance to all of us."We're "expert" cos we're not experts | |||
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"Well it maybe used in the future. If it goes anything like HIV treatment then cocktails will be required to prevent resistance It is currently being used. Used for HIV or for Covid?" Both. For COVID it's part of paxlovid. | |||
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"Well it maybe used in the future. If it goes anything like HIV treatment then cocktails will be required to prevent resistance It is currently being used. Used for HIV or for Covid? Both. For COVID it's part of paxlovid." In NHS yes but other countries are moving away from it as it’s believed to be not as effective as newer regimes | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining. And people say the "anti vaxers" say some crazy stuff.. See study - if 37% of healthy people have evidence of Covid in their gut- then this has huge implications for the human population as a whole- it’s far from being crazy- it’s rather worrying" Just to be clear You agree that 97% of humanity will be dead within 20 years? | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining. And people say the "anti vaxers" say some crazy stuff.. See study - if 37% of healthy people have evidence of Covid in their gut- then this has huge implications for the human population as a whole- it’s far from being crazy- it’s rather worrying Just to be clear You agree that 97% of humanity will be dead within 20 years?" Not will be, could be. The projections are accurate but it won’t get that far because those in positions of power and money will not want their wealth and status threatened by societal collapse and they will want to maintain some sort status quo. It is interesting that this was posted for those attending Davos before picking up their badge The Forum strongly recommends that participants are vaccinated with the latest available vaccines and take a COVID-19 test before travelling to Davos. Participants are required to get tested in one of the Forum testing centres after arriving in Davos and picking up their badge. That’s a lot of testing for a ‘mild condition’! | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining. And people say the "anti vaxers" say some crazy stuff.. See study - if 37% of healthy people have evidence of Covid in their gut- then this has huge implications for the human population as a whole- it’s far from being crazy- it’s rather worrying Just to be clear You agree that 97% of humanity will be dead within 20 years?" That'll fix the capacity problem on the nhs... And m25... | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining. And people say the "anti vaxers" say some crazy stuff.. See study - if 37% of healthy people have evidence of Covid in their gut- then this has huge implications for the human population as a whole- it’s far from being crazy- it’s rather worrying Just to be clear You agree that 97% of humanity will be dead within 20 years? That'll fix the capacity problem on the nhs... And m25... " And the 3% left will be partying civil servants across the globe, not giving a flying fuck. Burials will be outlawed during that time and we'll all want shares in funeral services and crems  | |||
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"The question is what percentage of the population is “suffering” heavily from from Covid. I say suffering as many say they had Covid but it was a mild cough etc so I’m interested to know about those who are genuinely suffering from Covid/long covid. How many of these are suffering due to the vaccine and its side effects and how many from the virus itself. How long will it take for the government to finally give up and acknowledge the situation to allow lockdowns to occur with face masks and isolation? What do you all think? Thanks Percentage of population who have been infected with covid at least once = 97% Percentage suffering from vaccine and side effects = 0.000% Percentage who have had covid, who still have covid virus hiding somewhere inside their body = 100.000% Percentage who have had covid, who will develop bad symptoms = 100.000%, but for many it will take years Percentage who have had covid, who will see some decrease in lifespan and life quality = 100.000% Yes, I am one of these people. Time for government to acknowledge the situation = they never will, because they know if they did they would be hung from lamp posts by population driven to fury by what has been done to them just to protect Johnson and his cronies having parties. Basically if you assume that the eventual results of covid infection are going to be very similar to the eventual results of HIV infection, then you will understand the situation. PS. All those of you who will now say that I'm talking bollocks, use the Fab web interface on a PC to check out the furthest history of the virus forum postings. Every single thing I have ever said about covid has turned out to be correct, everything I am saying now will eventually turn out to be corect. PPS. The only possible hope now is that enough governments do get lynched by their populations that very serious money is pushed into development of specific covid effective anti-viral drugs to allow actual cures for those already infected, ie. about 97% of the population. Otherwise within 20 years there will only be about 3% of the human race remaining. And people say the "anti vaxers" say some crazy stuff.. See study - if 37% of healthy people have evidence of Covid in their gut- then this has huge implications for the human population as a whole- it’s far from being crazy- it’s rather worrying Just to be clear You agree that 97% of humanity will be dead within 20 years? Not will be, could be. The projections are accurate but it won’t get that far because those in positions of power and money will not want their wealth and status threatened by societal collapse and they will want to maintain some sort status quo. It is interesting that this was posted for those attending Davos before picking up their badge The Forum strongly recommends that participants are vaccinated with the latest available vaccines and take a COVID-19 test before travelling to Davos. Participants are required to get tested in one of the Forum testing centres after arriving in Davos and picking up their badge. That’s a lot of testing for a ‘mild condition’! " So just to clarify again There is a real possibility that 97% of the planet could shuffle off their mortal coil in 20 years time if nothing is done Is that 20 years from now or from the start of the pandemic? This is like the response doomsday cults use "The world was going to end but because of us it didn't" | |||
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"There was an interesting link between, getting covid and low levels of d vitamin." "Deficiency in vitamin D is associated with increased autoimmunity and an increased susceptibility to infection" from Vit D and the immune system 2011 | |||
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"There was an interesting link between, getting covid and low levels of d vitamin. "Deficiency in vitamin D is associated with increased autoimmunity and an increased susceptibility to infection" from Vit D and the immune system 2011" I believe there is a fresh link to lack of vit D and Alzheimer’s as well. Tempted to head to the nearest health food shop after having two family members decimated by it. | |||
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" - I did see that about the Army - so it’s starting to percolate down through different organisations- I think the MOD have also installed HEPA filters in many of their senior offices.
I think once hedge fund managers realise that people will start retiring earlier due to choice or ill health or both and they draw down their funds earlier than predicted - then this will have a dramatic effect on markets.
It’s the cruel reality of all this in that it’s the economics of Covid will force change because so far we have been pretty much ignoring the science.
They have installed HEPA filters in the HOC too so it seems. Schools though, lets leave them to it
Yes it is all set up for potentially appalling legacy issues for children unless this is dealt with soon. The problem is no government is going to be willing to admit that they got it wrong in that they were only focussed on Covid in the short term and never considered its chronic effects when in truth that’s what Coronavirus’s have done previously ( SARS 1) and in other species
There was a lawsuit in California recently about worker's compensation for damage due to Covid - something like the wife of a worker who was forced to work in conditions breaching the law at the time (in 2020).
They decided on the grounds of public policy, if memory serves, that they can't award damages. Not because harm didn't occur. But because damage has been so widespread that it would be bad for the economy to compensate people."wow | |||
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"So I now have a confirmed diagnosis of long COVID. Mainly because I got punted to my local A&E yesterday with chest pains and breathing difficulties, ludicrous blood pressure, fatigue, and dizziness... ...and when they blooded me, I had an o2 level of 2.72 kPa. I mean, they do have other patients in with blood oxygen that low, but they're mostly in the fridge in the basement. Long COVID appears to be a syndrome involving any weird s**t like that which is intermittent, doesn't make sense or - and I quote the UCL study here via the FT - "defies medical science", and is a multi-organ syndrome involving a possible 200+ potential symptoms. All I can tell you is that from the inside, it sucks harder than I do. Which is saying something. And there is, currently, no known treatment. Get your vax, which will at least take the edge off it, and other than that... good luck." Sorry that you’re unwell! I hope they treat you and get you back to full health. If I were you I wouldn’t let them fob you off with “long Covid”. You’d benefit from a more specific diagnosis | |||
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