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 below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths." Why do you think people shouldn't be interested? | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths." probably similar reason for lay people obsession with Covid deaths during the pandemic… | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths." Breakdown in trust of authority, and trying to understand and manage risk for themselves? | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Why do you think people shouldn't be interested?" I didn't say they shouldn't be, and as the OP indicates, there are multiple variables as to the causes. | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Breakdown in trust of authority, and trying to understand and manage risk for themselves?" They could only manage risk if they look at causes. I agree that we are witnessing a breakdown of trust as it's evident in this forum. | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Why do you think people shouldn't be interested? I didn't say they shouldn't be, and as the OP indicates, there are multiple variables as to the causes." Ok I will rehrase. Why do you not understand that people will be interested? | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Breakdown in trust of authority, and trying to understand and manage risk for themselves? They could only manage risk if they look at causes. I agree that we are witnessing a breakdown of trust as it's evident in this forum." I think it's beyond most people to be able to understand excess deaths - but it doesn't mean that people won't look. My biology/medicine learning curve was basically a vertical line in 2020  See breakdown in trust etc. Tried to do the best I could, because I didn't/ don't feel I can trust the powers that be. | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Breakdown in trust of authority, and trying to understand and manage risk for themselves?" the trust in 'Authority' was lost many many years ago. why do you think voter turn out is so low, why do you think so many people refused the vaccine, with some of them changing their mind when their ability to travel and/or jobs were threatened | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Breakdown in trust of authority, and trying to understand and manage risk for themselves? the trust in 'Authority' was lost many many years ago. why do you think voter turn out is so low, why do you think so many people refused the vaccine, with some of them changing their mind when their ability to travel and/or jobs were threatened " Yes, only one side of the political aisle doesn't trust authority, very good, you're all very clever  | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Breakdown in trust of authority, and trying to understand and manage risk for themselves? the trust in 'Authority' was lost many many years ago. why do you think voter turn out is so low, why do you think so many people refused the vaccine, with some of them changing their mind when their ability to travel and/or jobs were threatened " Compared to the rest of Europe our voter turnout isn’t too bad. We’re mid table. Romania is bottom with under 40% we’re mid table on about 68% and I think Luxembourg is top at about 90%. Our turnout has been reasonably consistent over the last 25 years. I am only talking about general elections. Obviously there are various devolved or by- elections where turnout has been different | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths." For most people, the data is an interest, not an obsession. It’s just more basic information about a pandemic which changed their lives, at least for a while. | |||
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"You should put the data for 2015 to 2019 if that's what your comparing it to ?" I’ve looked into it quickly at the start of covid and excess deaths was estimated at around 65,000 to 80,000 per year ? What I’d like to see are the figures that only states those who died from Covid not adding those who had a pre-existing condition that killed them that caught covid ( in many cases while in hospital) but that wasn’t the cause of death ? If that makes sense ? | |||
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"You should put the data for 2015 to 2019 if that's what your comparing it to ?" That would be a LOT of numbers, and the available character-set isn’t designed to display data in columns. I have the data on an Exhell spreadsheet. If you let me know your email address I’ll send you a copy. Alternatively, you can find the source data online, starting at: https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/bulletins/deathsregisteredweeklyinenglandandwalesprovisional/weekending3april2020 | |||
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" I’ve looked into it quickly at the start of covid and excess deaths was estimated at around 65,000 to 80,000 per year ? What I’d like to see are the figures that only states those who died from Covid not adding those who had a pre-existing condition that killed them that caught covid ( in many cases while in hospital) but that wasn’t the cause of death ? If that makes sense ? " At the start, I tried to find the same numbers as you. But they are not available because: 1. People were killed by the virus before it was isolated, and appropriate tests devised. Until then, it was just another ‘flu virus. 2. Medical professionals had no problem counting dead people. But determining the cause often wasn’t easy because many people had other illnesses at the same time, e.g. cardiovascular diseases. The cause of death could often be a matter of opinion. The ONS has been maintaining their “all causes” records for decades. The weekly timing of the deaths isn’t accurate because of holidays and other reporting delays – look at last the last week of last year. But the numbers do give an accurate long-term FACTUAL picture. No opinions are involved. I’ve published the data to provide a fact-based comparison with opinion-based numbers published by “authorities” | |||
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"2015: 539,007 2016: 524,474 2017: 533,125 2018: 539,340 2019: 527,234 Total 2,663,180 " Are you sure, those are around 10 higher than the following years | |||
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" I’ve looked into it quickly at the start of covid and excess deaths was estimated at around 65,000 to 80,000 per year ? What I’d like to see are the figures that only states those who died from Covid not adding those who had a pre-existing condition that killed them that caught covid ( in many cases while in hospital) but that wasn’t the cause of death ? If that makes sense ? At the start, I tried to find the same numbers as you. But they are not available because: 1. People were killed by the virus before it was isolated, and appropriate tests devised. Until then, it was just another ‘flu virus. 2. Medical professionals had no problem counting dead people. But determining the cause often wasn’t easy because many people had other illnesses at the same time, e.g. cardiovascular diseases. The cause of death could often be a matter of opinion. The ONS has been maintaining their “all causes” records for decades. The weekly timing of the deaths isn’t accurate because of holidays and other reporting delays – look at last the last week of last year. But the numbers do give an accurate long-term FACTUAL picture. No opinions are involved. I’ve published the data to provide a fact-based comparison with opinion-based numbers published by “authorities” " On what grounds do you think your views are more factual than others? Do you think that "people died of the virus before it was identified/isolated" delegitimises the validity of the virus? Did less people die of the Black Death because we didn't know what the hell it was at the time? | |||
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" Are you sure, those are around 10 higher than the following years" They are the total deaths. I don’t have the weekly total deaths for 2010 to 2014 which I would have to use to calculate the 2015 to 2019 excess deaths numbers. | |||
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" On what grounds do you think your views are more factual than others? Do you think that "people died of the virus before it was identified/isolated" delegitimises the validity of the virus? Did less people die of the Black Death because we didn't know what the hell it was at the time?" Which “views”? The numbers are purported to be factual, as published by the ONS. "People died of the virus before it was identified/isolated” is a statement of fact. It means that we can’t know with any degree of accuracy how many people the pandemic killed. The statement has nothing whatsoever to do with the “validity” of the virus, whatever that means. The (unknown) number of people killed by the Black Death is in no way dependent upon what people knew or didn’t know at the time. Sorry, I don’t understand your comments. | |||
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" On what grounds do you think your views are more factual than others? Do you think that "people died of the virus before it was identified/isolated" delegitimises the validity of the virus? Did less people die of the Black Death because we didn't know what the hell it was at the time? Which “views”? The numbers are purported to be factual, as published by the ONS. "People died of the virus before it was identified/isolated” is a statement of fact. It means that we can’t know with any degree of accuracy how many people the pandemic killed. The statement has nothing whatsoever to do with the “validity” of the virus, whatever that means. The (unknown) number of people killed by the Black Death is in no way dependent upon what people knew or didn’t know at the time. Sorry, I don’t understand your comments. " In some interviews with doctors at the time of covid patients were admitted to hospital for life ending care but as caught covid the death was classed as covid related?? Views are never factual as numbers can be fudged to make it read the way you want it to ? | |||
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" On what grounds do you think your views are more factual than others? Do you think that "people died of the virus before it was identified/isolated" delegitimises the validity of the virus? Did less people die of the Black Death because we didn't know what the hell it was at the time? Which “views”? The numbers are purported to be factual, as published by the ONS. "People died of the virus before it was identified/isolated” is a statement of fact. It means that we can’t know with any degree of accuracy how many people the pandemic killed. The statement has nothing whatsoever to do with the “validity” of the virus, whatever that means. The (unknown) number of people killed by the Black Death is in no way dependent upon what people knew or didn’t know at the time. Sorry, I don’t understand your comments. In some interviews with doctors at the time of covid patients were admitted to hospital for life ending care but as caught covid the death was classed as covid related?? Views are never factual as numbers can be fudged to make it read the way you want it to ?" The "totals" weren't fudged unless they killed people so they could blame COVID and unless there was a huge spike in road traffic accidents where all those who died did so "with COVID" then how do you explain the huge sudden increase in deaths in 2020 ? Coincidence ? | |||
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"The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
"Not sure if it’s relevant or even statistically confirmed but I’m anecdotally under the impression that weather had been more extreme this year with longer harder seasons for hot and cold. In addition the economical factor with food and fuel poverty may have impacted health. | |||
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"The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
Not sure if it’s relevant or even statistically confirmed but I’m anecdotally under the impression that weather had been more extreme this year with longer harder seasons for hot and cold. In addition the economical factor with food and fuel poverty may have impacted health. "*apologies by this year, I meant 2023 | |||
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"The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
"What's your point? People have died it's sad but it happens. | |||
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"It would be odd if people weren’t interested in these issues. Regardless of whether we “trust” authority, people like to be informed on current events. And people might want to form a view on whether they think the Government did a good job, as it could affect their voting intentions or their input to some discussion on the matter, which may or may not wind its way into public opinion and future decisions. " Pre-pandemic I have never seen threads re excess deaths. Therefore I view the "obsession" as an afterthought. | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths." Lay people? Because they can't understand stuff...? Haha the blinding arrogance. | |||
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"It would be odd if people weren’t interested in these issues. Regardless of whether we “trust” authority, people like to be informed on current events. And people might want to form a view on whether they think the Government did a good job, as it could affect their voting intentions or their input to some discussion on the matter, which may or may not wind its way into public opinion and future decisions. Pre-pandemic I have never seen threads re excess deaths. Therefore I view the "obsession" as an afterthought." That's because it was pre pandemic. | |||
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"It would be odd if people weren’t interested in these issues. Regardless of whether we “trust” authority, people like to be informed on current events. And people might want to form a view on whether they think the Government did a good job, as it could affect their voting intentions or their input to some discussion on the matter, which may or may not wind its way into public opinion and future decisions. Pre-pandemic I have never seen threads re excess deaths. Therefore I view the "obsession" as an afterthought." Did you ever see threads about viruii pre pandemic? | |||
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"It would be odd if people weren’t interested in these issues. Regardless of whether we “trust” authority, people like to be informed on current events. And people might want to form a view on whether they think the Government did a good job, as it could affect their voting intentions or their input to some discussion on the matter, which may or may not wind its way into public opinion and future decisions. Pre-pandemic I have never seen threads re excess deaths. Therefore I view the "obsession" as an afterthought." I wonder if, in the pre vaccine age, people would have been more interested in excess deaths if they'd had access to (relatively) unfiltered information like we do now. It's an event which is probably unique in most of our lifetimes, in terms of disease outbreak. In the same way that people are now way more interested in Russian politics since 2022. | |||
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"It would be odd if people weren’t interested in these issues. Regardless of whether we “trust” authority, people like to be informed on current events. And people might want to form a view on whether they think the Government did a good job, as it could affect their voting intentions or their input to some discussion on the matter, which may or may not wind its way into public opinion and future decisions. Pre-pandemic I have never seen threads re excess deaths. Therefore I view the "obsession" as an afterthought. I wonder if, in the pre vaccine age, people would have been more interested in excess deaths if they'd had access to (relatively) unfiltered information like we do now. It's an event which is probably unique in most of our lifetimes, in terms of disease outbreak. In the same way that people are now way more interested in Russian politics since 2022."  makes sense. That and most of our lives were thrown upside down by it, we had media forced down our throats and the message was... "trust the science"... Hence why people started showing and interest in what was being called "science" | |||
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"Poor hygiene, poor diets, poor lifestyle,too much alcohol and recreational drug's, aging population has resulted in an increase of deaths due to pneumonia and Alzheimer's, people refusing to get vaccinated against stuff that should have been consigned to history long ago,more preventable deaths due to excessive waiting times for A&E space and lack of hospital beds,NHS services cut due to the postcode care lottery,more deaths on the road because of more vehicles than ever, pollution, climate change causing more respiratory based issues...... There's many different reasons but I'd probably say growing population means more people to die." You forgot global warming and brexit | |||
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"Poor hygiene, poor diets, poor lifestyle,too much alcohol and recreational drug's, aging population has resulted in an increase of deaths due to pneumonia and Alzheimer's, people refusing to get vaccinated against stuff that should have been consigned to history long ago,more preventable deaths due to excessive waiting times for A&E space and lack of hospital beds,NHS services cut due to the postcode care lottery,more deaths on the road because of more vehicles than ever, pollution, climate change causing more respiratory based issues...... There's many different reasons but I'd probably say growing population means more people to die. You forgot global warming and brexit" Shit yeah Brexit and the French they are always to blame for something. | |||
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" Hence why people started showing and interest in what was being called "science" " And therin lies a problem because millions of people incapable of understanding the science were exposed to the misinformation provided by unscrupulous beings only interested in increasing their YouTube revenue clicks and give them false belief in anything that would give them some escapism from reality and others used it to further their anti establishment cause. There are help groups to aid people who have trodden this path | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Lay people? Because they can't understand stuff...? Haha the blinding arrogance. " Really? Making assumptions aren't you (rhetorical). I was differentiating between lay and healthcare staff because I'd expect the latter to somewhat understand the stats as a tool to facilitate research into causative factors, then fund appropriate public health england and NHS treatments/education and the such like. | |||
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"It would be odd if people weren’t interested in these issues. Regardless of whether we “trust” authority, people like to be informed on current events. And people might want to form a view on whether they think the Government did a good job, as it could affect their voting intentions or their input to some discussion on the matter, which may or may not wind its way into public opinion and future decisions. Pre-pandemic I have never seen threads re excess deaths. Therefore I view the "obsession" as an afterthought. Did you ever see threads about viruii pre pandemic?" Nor since | |||
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" Hence why people started showing and interest in what was being called "science" And therin lies a problem because millions of people incapable of understanding the science were exposed to the misinformation provided by unscrupulous beings only interested in increasing their YouTube revenue clicks and give them false belief in anything that would give them some escapism from reality and others used it to further their anti establishment cause. There are help groups to aid people who have trodden this path " I think a lot of people who don't know the way scholarship works have fallen into the delusion that because things didn't go perfectly (or politicians fuck up), therefore the science is invalid. Or something like that. Except they only think that way about certain things, they don't think that about their car or their house or their holidays. | |||
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" Hence why people started showing and interest in what was being called "science" And therin lies a problem because millions of people incapable of understanding the science were exposed to the misinformation provided by unscrupulous beings only interested in increasing their YouTube revenue clicks and give them false belief in anything that would give them some escapism from reality and others used it to further their anti establishment cause. There are help groups to aid people who have trodden this path " Giving it some thought, i suppose what I'm really wondering is, is there a conspiracy theory regarding (this post pandemic interest in) excess deaths. | |||
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" Hence why people started showing and interest in what was being called "science" And therin lies a problem because millions of people incapable of understanding the science were exposed to the misinformation provided by unscrupulous beings only interested in increasing their YouTube revenue clicks and give them false belief in anything that would give them some escapism from reality and others used it to further their anti establishment cause. There are help groups to aid people who have trodden this path Giving it some thought, i suppose what I'm really wondering is, is there a conspiracy theory regarding (this post pandemic interest in) excess deaths. " Some people in that sphere are arguing that it's proof that vaccines are causing people to drop dead. I heard one prominent conspiracy theorist say that "holiday heart" referred to "the clot shot" killing people (context, United States - important because there were a lot less viral vector vaccines in the US... but facts are irrelevant here, man). The fact that "holiday heart" was coined in 1978 to refer to cardiac problems caused by excess drinking over the Christmas period... presumably shows that the evil of Covid vaccines travels back in time, or something? | |||
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" Hence why people started showing and interest in what was being called "science" And therin lies a problem because millions of people incapable of understanding the science were exposed to the misinformation provided by unscrupulous beings only interested in increasing their YouTube revenue clicks and give them false belief in anything that would give them some escapism from reality and others used it to further their anti establishment cause. There are help groups to aid people who have trodden this path Giving it some thought, i suppose what I'm really wondering is, is there a conspiracy theory regarding (this post pandemic interest in) excess deaths. Some people in that sphere are arguing that it's proof that vaccines are causing people to drop dead. I heard one prominent conspiracy theorist say that "holiday heart" referred to "the clot shot" killing people (context, United States - important because there were a lot less viral vector vaccines in the US... but facts are irrelevant here, man). The fact that "holiday heart" was coined in 1978 to refer to cardiac problems caused by excess drinking over the Christmas period... presumably shows that the evil of Covid vaccines travels back in time, or something?" I only read that sort of stuff here, not on X or Instagram. Only use Facebook but I seem to only know sensible people  | |||
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" Hence why people started showing and interest in what was being called "science" And therin lies a problem because millions of people incapable of understanding the science were exposed to the misinformation provided by unscrupulous beings only interested in increasing their YouTube revenue clicks and give them false belief in anything that would give them some escapism from reality and others used it to further their anti establishment cause. There are help groups to aid people who have trodden this path Giving it some thought, i suppose what I'm really wondering is, is there a conspiracy theory regarding (this post pandemic interest in) excess deaths. Some people in that sphere are arguing that it's proof that vaccines are causing people to drop dead. I heard one prominent conspiracy theorist say that "holiday heart" referred to "the clot shot" killing people (context, United States - important because there were a lot less viral vector vaccines in the US... but facts are irrelevant here, man). The fact that "holiday heart" was coined in 1978 to refer to cardiac problems caused by excess drinking over the Christmas period... presumably shows that the evil of Covid vaccines travels back in time, or something? I only read that sort of stuff here, not on X or Instagram. Only use Facebook but I seem to only know sensible people "I was listening to a podcast that was pointing out why this was stupid - as if that wasn't obvious. | |||
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" What's your point? People have died it's sad but it happens." My initial post was pointless. The final 2023 week’s numbers were posted by the ONS this morning. I up-dated the spreadsheet and uploaded the summary in case there are a few people who are still interested in statistics about the pandemic. More interesting facts: During 2021, the number of deaths was below average for 14 weeks, and for 2022 it was 13 weeks. I wonder why it was only 4 weeks for last year. | |||
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" What's your point? People have died it's sad but it happens. My initial post was pointless. The final 2023 week’s numbers were posted by the ONS this morning. I up-dated the spreadsheet and uploaded the summary in case there are a few people who are still interested in statistics about the pandemic. More interesting facts: During 2021, the number of deaths was below average for 14 weeks, and for 2022 it was 13 weeks. I wonder why it was only 4 weeks for last year. " how much overlap between the 13 and 14 weeks ? | |||
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"The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
"The vaccine,, as simple as that,, the government’s kulling machine And still the spike protein grows within the sheep that took it Those deaths are the tip of the iceberg | |||
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" More interesting facts: During 2021, the number of deaths was below average for 14 weeks, and for 2022 it was 13 weeks. I wonder why it was only 4 weeks for last year. how much overlap between the 13 and 14 weeks ?" Sorry, I don’t understand “overlap”. In 2021, the “below” weeks were numbers 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21,22, 25 & 26. In 2022, the “below” weeks were numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 15, 22 & 38. In 2023, the “below” weeks were numbers 10, 14, 15 & 52 (Christmas) | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths." I tend to stay out of these posts but that is fairly hilariously backward given the obsession with daily death/hospital rates for so long that weren't in any excess  | |||
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"The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
The vaccine,, as simple as that,, the government’s kulling machine
And still the spike protein grows within the sheep that took it
Those deaths are the tip of the iceberg "And there it is... | |||
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"It would be odd if people weren’t interested in these issues. Regardless of whether we “trust” authority, people like to be informed on current events. And people might want to form a view on whether they think the Government did a good job, as it could affect their voting intentions or their input to some discussion on the matter, which may or may not wind its way into public opinion and future decisions. Pre-pandemic I have never seen threads re excess deaths. Therefore I view the "obsession" as an afterthought." Probably because people with cancer ,and other problems that could have been treated and cured after it was found on their scan ,have died for no reason because their treatment was cancelled because of the lockdowns. So ,yes , I'd say there have been a lot of "excess " ,and avoidable deaths post pandemic. And yet the covid enquiry don't seem interested in this , they are only interested in whether we locked down early enough . | |||
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"Utter bllx FFFS grow up … " Can you prove him wrong ,or buying everything the government wanted you to believe .? | |||
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"The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
The vaccine,, as simple as that,, the government’s kulling machine
And still the spike protein grows within the sheep that took it
Those deaths are the tip of the iceberg "The governments killing machine.......? Must be the most ineffective killing/culling  machine ever.
Also "the" governments killing/culling machine, didn't every government of every country have a vaccine program?
Where are the millions of deaths worlwide caused by this "killing/culling machine".
Spike protein was in you body long before the vaccines came along.  | |||
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"Utter bllx FFFS grow up … Can you prove him wrong ,or buying everything the government wanted you to believe .? " Do you know there are more than two options in the world, believing the government or believing a bunch of half baked bollocks? There are infinite possibilities in between. And yet somehow it always seems to come down to "either you believe my magical horror story that doesn't make any sense or you swallow everything Boris told you". Nah. I live in the real world, I can see both are bollocks | |||
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"I Imagine one of the numerous variables which makes excess deaths almost pointless is: The HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of missed appointments, diagnosis, operations due to the lockdown measures designed to protect conservative grey vote. " Or it's a way that epidemiologists globally try to understand the effects of various things across the world, but of course it's just about the Tories trying to make us sad or something | |||
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"Hang on a second, it’s used as a rough guide, you are positioning it as a fact. When the data generated from ED is only part of the analysis. The media probably led by governments leaned heavily on it. As did and do armchair epidemiologist. Whom compare like for like with no consideration for anything other than the COVID bumming bandwagon. The reality is; covid primarily affected the old and those with very bad health. Yes you can hit me with some numbers, but the stats do not lie. For 10 of millions lockdown was an absolute waste of life ! Ruined millions of kids development, education. Bankrupted business, Bankrupted the economy. More people will die because of lockdown than it ever saved. " I'm afraid it is a fact, what I said, that epidemiologists use measurements to work out the impact of various life events. I'll be interested to see the peer reviewed data for any of your claims. | |||
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"why do you say there is excess death the population is growing more people are born every year, it is perfectly logical the number of death is going to grow as well??? People die it is part of life we are not here forever, it is very sad when a loved one leave us but nothing we can do about it." You clearly need to read the definition of "excess deaths" | |||
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"Hang on a second, it’s used as a rough guide, you are positioning it as a fact. When the data generated from ED is only part of the analysis. The media probably led by governments leaned heavily on it. As did and do armchair epidemiologist. Whom compare like for like with no consideration for anything other than the COVID bumming bandwagon. The reality is; covid primarily affected the old and those with very bad health. Yes you can hit me with some numbers, but the stats do not lie. For 10 of millions lockdown was an absolute waste of life ! Ruined millions of kids development, education. Bankrupted business, Bankrupted the economy. More people will die because of lockdown than it ever saved. I'm afraid it is a fact, what I said, that epidemiologists use measurements to work out the impact of various life events. I'll be interested to see the peer reviewed data for any of your claims." But, a bloke has shared lots on YouTube it's there for us all to see, whilst he earns from our views, helping to encourage him to post more. | |||
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"I Imagine one of the numerous variables which makes excess deaths almost pointless is: The HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of missed appointments, diagnosis, operations due to the lockdown measures designed to protect conservative grey vote. " On reflection. And we can't turn back the clock. But you surely have to ask why the nhs locked down. Sure some were on the front line but once things had calmed down there wasn't a reason to cancel so many appointments... And now you can add to that the appointment lost due to all of the various industrial actions. | |||
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"I Imagine one of the numerous variables which makes excess deaths almost pointless is: The HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of missed appointments, diagnosis, operations due to the lockdown measures designed to protect conservative grey vote. On reflection. And we can't turn back the clock. But you surely have to ask why the nhs locked down. Sure some were on the front line but once things had calmed down there wasn't a reason to cancel so many appointments... And now you can add to that the appointment lost due to all of the various industrial actions. " I seem to recall that the NHS were struggling because of the number of Covid patients they were treating Some people have short memories | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths." I dont understand some peoples obsession with the virus part of the forum | |||
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" More interesting facts: During 2021, the number of deaths was below average for 14 weeks, and for 2022 it was 13 weeks. I wonder why it was only 4 weeks for last year. how much overlap between the 13 and 14 weeks ? Sorry, I don’t understand “overlap”. In 2021, the “below” weeks were numbers 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21,22, 25 & 26. In 2022, the “below” weeks were numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 15, 22 & 38. In 2023, the “below” weeks were numbers 10, 14, 15 & 52 (Christmas) " that's useful. It's interesting how lumpy those numbers are. It suggests to me that seasonality makes a difference. If there was something causing deaths that was uniform across years, you'd expect more randomness. Assuming 2020 is ignored from the averages (as I think it may be) I'd guess 2015 had a harsh start to the year but maybe a more clemant mid year. One of 2017,18,or19 had a harsh q2. | |||
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"I Imagine one of the numerous variables which makes excess deaths almost pointless is: The HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of missed appointments, diagnosis, operations due to the lockdown measures designed to protect conservative grey vote. On reflection. And we can't turn back the clock. But you surely have to ask why the nhs locked down. Sure some were on the front line but once things had calmed down there wasn't a reason to cancel so many appointments... And now you can add to that the appointment lost due to all of the various industrial actions. I seem to recall that the NHS were struggling because of the number of Covid patients they were treating Some people have short memories" At the start perhaps. Although even then that was only front line and only for a few months. After that outpatients were cancelled for no real reason. And since then it's been a year of further cancellations. There's a price. | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. I dont understand some peoples obsession with the virus part of the forum " I don't understand spanish | |||
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" More interesting facts: During 2021, the number of deaths was below average for 14 weeks, and for 2022 it was 13 weeks. I wonder why it was only 4 weeks for last year. how much overlap between the 13 and 14 weeks ? Sorry, I don’t understand “overlap”. In 2021, the “below” weeks were numbers 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 20, 21,22, 25 & 26. In 2022, the “below” weeks were numbers 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 10, 11, 13, 15, 22 & 38. In 2023, the “below” weeks were numbers 10, 14, 15 & 52 (Christmas) that's useful. It's interesting how lumpy those numbers are. It suggests to me that seasonality makes a difference. If there was something causing deaths that was uniform across years, you'd expect more randomness. Assuming 2020 is ignored from the averages (as I think it may be) I'd guess 2015 had a harsh start to the year but maybe a more clemant mid year. One of 2017,18,or19 had a harsh q2. " Think it is sensible to look at the provenance of the numbers. Are they accurate and reliable? Have they ever been? | |||
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"I Imagine one of the numerous variables which makes excess deaths almost pointless is: The HUNDREDS of THOUSANDS of missed appointments, diagnosis, operations due to the lockdown measures designed to protect conservative grey vote. On reflection. And we can't turn back the clock. But you surely have to ask why the nhs locked down. Sure some were on the front line but once things had calmed down there wasn't a reason to cancel so many appointments... And now you can add to that the appointment lost due to all of the various industrial actions. I seem to recall that the NHS were struggling because of the number of Covid patients they were treating Some people have short memories At the start perhaps. Although even then that was only front line and only for a few months. After that outpatients were cancelled for no real reason. And since then it's been a year of further cancellations. There's a price. " It was more than a few months, and once you get a backlog it's going to take a lot to clear it, it's not like the there's tons of spare capacity lying about https://ourworldindata.org/grapher/uk-daily-covid-admissions | |||
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"The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
" | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Most likely Vaccinations are causing injury and deaths. I know several people personally that have suddenly presented with stage 4 cancer at far too young an age, one sadly is no longer with us.... Plandemic is a more apt name for 2020 and what has transpired since The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
"And you have evidence that your friends who’ve presented with stage 4 cancer and it was caused by having a vaccine do you? Nope? Thought not. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Most likely Vaccinations are causing injury and deaths. I know several people personally that have suddenly presented with stage 4 cancer at far too young an age, one sadly is no longer with us.... Plandemic is a more apt name for 2020 and what has transpired since The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
"Well, that anecdote changes everything! | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Most likely Vaccinations are causing injury and deaths. I know several people personally that have suddenly presented with stage 4 cancer at far too young an age, one sadly is no longer with us.... Plandemic is a more apt name for 2020 and what has transpired since The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
And you have evidence that your friends who’ve presented with stage 4 cancer and it was caused by having a vaccine do you? Nope? Thought not. "Do you have any evidence that covid is actually anything other than a normal seasonal illness? Nope? Thought not. Something has changed since late 2020 / early 2021. More late stage cancers are being diagnosed, yes its anicdotal but open your eyes follow the news. We have friends and family that are and are not vaccinated and notice clear patterns of those getting ill more often. People are still testing positive for "covid" more often than not people that shouldn't be as they're vaccinated. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Most likely Vaccinations are causing injury and deaths. I know several people personally that have suddenly presented with stage 4 cancer at far too young an age, one sadly is no longer with us.... Plandemic is a more apt name for 2020 and what has transpired since The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
And you have evidence that your friends who’ve presented with stage 4 cancer and it was caused by having a vaccine do you? Nope? Thought not.
Do you have any evidence that covid is actually anything other than a normal seasonal illness? Nope? Thought not.
Something has changed since late 2020 / early 2021. More late stage cancers are being diagnosed, yes its anicdotal but open your eyes follow the news. We have friends and family that are and are not vaccinated and notice clear patterns of those getting ill more often. People are still testing positive for "covid" more often than not people that shouldn't be as they're vaccinated. "anecdotal evidence is fun. I have never known any of my friends get hopsitalised with seasonal illnesses. Yet did with COVID. Therefore COVID is more than seasonal. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Most likely Vaccinations are causing injury and deaths. I know several people personally that have suddenly presented with stage 4 cancer at far too young an age, one sadly is no longer with us.... Plandemic is a more apt name for 2020 and what has transpired since The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
And you have evidence that your friends who’ve presented with stage 4 cancer and it was caused by having a vaccine do you? Nope? Thought not.
Do you have any evidence that covid is actually anything other than a normal seasonal illness? Nope? Thought not.
Something has changed since late 2020 / early 2021. More late stage cancers are being diagnosed, yes its anicdotal but open your eyes follow the news. We have friends and family that are and are not vaccinated and notice clear patterns of those getting ill more often. People are still testing positive for "covid" more often than not people that shouldn't be as they're vaccinated. "I do love a spot of confirmation bias to start the day | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Most likely Vaccinations are causing injury and deaths. I know several people personally that have suddenly presented with stage 4 cancer at far too young an age, one sadly is no longer with us.... Plandemic is a more apt name for 2020 and what has transpired since The all causes deaths for England and Wales compared with the averages for the five pre-Covid years from 2015 to 2019. The four-year cumulative total excess deaths, 2020 to 2023, was 226,159. The annual total excess deaths were: 2020: 75,459 2021: 54,768 2022: 45,765 2023: 50,167 The 2023 weekly and monthly deaths above or below) average were:
Jan:::2,783:::3,559:::2,591:::1,376::::::::::::::Total::10,309
Feb:::1,208::::::745:::::406:::::::408::::::::::::::Total::::2,767
Mar::::::868:::::80):::::928::::1,483:::1,461::Total::::4,660
Apr::::215)::540)::1,929::::1,695::::::::::::::Total::::2,869
May:::::204:::::793::::1,465::::1,170::::::::::::::Total::::3,632
Jun::::::667:::::963::::1,282::::1,068:::1,078::Total::::5,058
Jul:::::::551:::::780:::::::565:::::::632::::::::::::::Total::::2,528
Aug::1,004:::::888:::::::975:::::::927::::::::::::::Total::::3,794
Sep:::::200:::::985::::1,047::::1,120::::::603::Total::::3,955
Oct::::::547:::::733:::::::522:::::::685::::::::::::::Total::::2,487
Nov::1,094::1,157:::::::893::::1,006::::::::::::: Total::::4,150
Dec:::::970:::::624::::1,209::::1,665::510):::Total::::3,958
During 2023, the number of deaths was below average for just 4 of the 52 weeks.
Why?
Possible explanations:
1. Coincidence, the laws of probability, chance, luck.
2. A bad ‘flu. year.
3. There’s an additional killer on the loose.
4. The virus has mutated and evades immune system defences and vaccines.
5. Only older people were offered vaccinations, so more younger people died early.
6. The lack of media attention reduced peoples’ anxiety about infection, so fewer people were vaccinated, and deaths increased.
7. During peak pandemic periods, NHS waiting lists grew. The backlog created was increased by people already on the lists needing more appointments for worsening symptoms, some of whom died early. Pre-Covid, people with the same issues would have been treated earlier and survived.
8. The N.H.S. was even less fit-for-purpose than it was in 2019 – some of the best staff may have given up in despair and headed for pastures greener in the private sector.
9. Industrial action by N.H.S. staff.
10. Population changes: The arrival of vulnerable immigrants and asylum-seekers.
11. Anything other possible reasons?
Note about the ONS statistics:
The continuing lethal effect of the Covid-19 virus epidemic has been somewhat obscured by the five-year weekly averages used by the ONS during 2022 and 2023.
For 2022, the deaths of the four pre-Covid years 2016 to 2019 plus the 2021 Covid year were used.
For 2023, the deaths of the three pre-Covid years 2017 to 2019 plus the two 2021 and 2022 Covid years were used.
Including high Covid year deaths in calculating the averages reduced the years’ excess deaths.
If you would like a copy of the Exhell spreadsheet I record the data on, let me know your email address.
And you have evidence that your friends who’ve presented with stage 4 cancer and it was caused by having a vaccine do you? Nope? Thought not.
Do you have any evidence that covid is actually anything other than a normal seasonal illness? Nope? Thought not.
Something has changed since late 2020 / early 2021. More late stage cancers are being diagnosed, yes its anicdotal but open your eyes follow the news. We have friends and family that are and are not vaccinated and notice clear patterns of those getting ill more often. People are still testing positive for "covid" more often than not people that shouldn't be as they're vaccinated. "Your awareness stretches to the benefits of the vaccines, which include reducing the severity of illness and likelihood of death? Like many vaccines, they're not sterilising vaccines. If you look for the wrong things, you may or may not find something to confirm what you're believing | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The most obvious cause which you try really hard not to mention is the jab! Those who have had it really don’t wanna believe or except that they have put that poison in there body and I can understand that! The fact they had to bribe the gps to give it and threaten us to take it was enough to convince me not to " The excess deaths peaked before the vaccine was released. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The most obvious cause which you try really hard not to mention is the jab! Those who have had it really don’t wanna believe or except that they have put that poison in there body and I can understand that! The fact they had to bribe the gps to give it and threaten us to take it was enough to convince me not to " Why do you think the vaccine passports were introduced. A bribe to basically say "be a good citizen, have the habit, and we will let you go abroad on holiday " Some fell for it ,some of us didn't. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"The most obvious cause which you try really hard not to mention is the jab! Those who have had it really don’t wanna believe or except that they have put that poison in there body and I can understand that! The fact they had to bribe the gps to give it and threaten us to take it was enough to convince me not to " I'm glad I've had my vaccine & all boosters all of which were Pfizer....I don't see it as a "Poison".... Remember it does eventually leave your body.... I've had zero side effects....& If I'm called for the next Pfizer Booster I will not hesitate in availing of it.... I haven't contracted Covid as of yet but I put that down to my healthy eating which includes lots of Garlic Onions & Ginger Which are all natural strong antibiotics.... | |||
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| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools " And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. " A vaccine wiped out Small Pox so they do work.... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. " This is horse shit. Polio got worse as living standards improved, because it hit older, for one. We can see the rise and fall of measles specifically in pockets where vaccine uptake is lower, even when living standards remain steady. | |||
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| Reply privately |
People die, we are all in a line and when you get to the front it’s your turn whatever method so live for the moment, love your inner circle and be fucking happy. Most of all be kind to people and understand people especially the young, the old and those who still don’t know the best version of themselves. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"People die and a lot younger in this day and age. We eat more shit, drink more shit, smoke more shit - vape! (Where did that come from - let’s all suck the kettle when it’s boiled shall we!) More risks, see how many muppets think they can do a weekend on an escalator in the Arndale centre in a North Face ninja jacket and summit Everest a month later. Faster cars/fast bikes and war - still a shit load of that going on. Social media is killing people quicker than some serious illnesses because some people can’t bear to feel like shit because they have a blackhead on the end of their nose and they are worried they will be ridiculed - squeeze the fucker and see how much shit flies all over your bedroom mirror and then fist pump - that’s how we used to roll
People die, we are all in a line and when you get to the front it’s your turn whatever method so live for the moment, love your inner circle and be fucking happy. Most of all be kind to people and understand people especially the young, the old and those who still don’t know the best version of themselves. "People are dying younger? eh? that makes no fucking sense when connected with any actual facts | |||
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| Reply privately |
"People die and a lot younger in this day and age. We eat more shit, drink more shit, smoke more shit - vape! (Where did that come from - let’s all suck the kettle when it’s boiled shall we!) More risks, see how many muppets think they can do a weekend on an escalator in the Arndale centre in a North Face ninja jacket and summit Everest a month later. Faster cars/fast bikes and war - still a shit load of that going on. Social media is killing people quicker than some serious illnesses because some people can’t bear to feel like shit because they have a blackhead on the end of their nose and they are worried they will be ridiculed - squeeze the fucker and see how much shit flies all over your bedroom mirror and then fist pump - that’s how we used to roll
People die, we are all in a line and when you get to the front it’s your turn whatever method so live for the moment, love your inner circle and be fucking happy. Most of all be kind to people and understand people especially the young, the old and those who still don’t know the best version of themselves.
People are dying younger?
eh?
that makes no fucking sense when connected with any actual facts "Generation gap. People die younger in today’s era than they did post war for instance. It’s the excessive world we live in - cast your mind back to COVID - we are a nation that cannot do without. I’ve been part of this as well so I’m not excusing myself. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"People die and a lot younger in this day and age. We eat more shit, drink more shit, smoke more shit - vape! (Where did that come from - let’s all suck the kettle when it’s boiled shall we!) More risks, see how many muppets think they can do a weekend on an escalator in the Arndale centre in a North Face ninja jacket and summit Everest a month later. Faster cars/fast bikes and war - still a shit load of that going on. Social media is killing people quicker than some serious illnesses because some people can’t bear to feel like shit because they have a blackhead on the end of their nose and they are worried they will be ridiculed - squeeze the fucker and see how much shit flies all over your bedroom mirror and then fist pump - that’s how we used to roll
People die, we are all in a line and when you get to the front it’s your turn whatever method so live for the moment, love your inner circle and be fucking happy. Most of all be kind to people and understand people especially the young, the old and those who still don’t know the best version of themselves.
People are dying younger?
eh?
that makes no fucking sense when connected with any actual facts
Generation gap. People die younger in today’s era than they did post war for instance. It’s the excessive world we live in - cast your mind back to COVID - we are a nation that cannot do without. I’ve been part of this as well so I’m not excusing myself."err... what evidence do you have for the idea people die younger? | |||
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| Reply privately |
"People die and a lot younger in this day and age. We eat more shit, drink more shit, smoke more shit - vape! (Where did that come from - let’s all suck the kettle when it’s boiled shall we!) More risks, see how many muppets think they can do a weekend on an escalator in the Arndale centre in a North Face ninja jacket and summit Everest a month later. Faster cars/fast bikes and war - still a shit load of that going on. Social media is killing people quicker than some serious illnesses because some people can’t bear to feel like shit because they have a blackhead on the end of their nose and they are worried they will be ridiculed - squeeze the fucker and see how much shit flies all over your bedroom mirror and then fist pump - that’s how we used to roll
People die, we are all in a line and when you get to the front it’s your turn whatever method so live for the moment, love your inner circle and be fucking happy. Most of all be kind to people and understand people especially the young, the old and those who still don’t know the best version of themselves.
People are dying younger?
eh?
that makes no fucking sense when connected with any actual facts
Generation gap. People die younger in today’s era than they did post war for instance. It’s the excessive world we live in - cast your mind back to COVID - we are a nation that cannot do without. I’ve been part of this as well so I’m not excusing myself.
err... what evidence do you have for the idea people die younger?"Get a life and go read some statistics that are made up by someone on an over inflated salary. I’ve got blackheads to squeeze! Oh and it was my somewhat tongue in cheek opinion which I am I think entitled to if you don’t like the comment pass it by. Life’s too short. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"People die and a lot younger in this day and age. We eat more shit, drink more shit, smoke more shit - vape! (Where did that come from - let’s all suck the kettle when it’s boiled shall we!) More risks, see how many muppets think they can do a weekend on an escalator in the Arndale centre in a North Face ninja jacket and summit Everest a month later. Faster cars/fast bikes and war - still a shit load of that going on. Social media is killing people quicker than some serious illnesses because some people can’t bear to feel like shit because they have a blackhead on the end of their nose and they are worried they will be ridiculed - squeeze the fucker and see how much shit flies all over your bedroom mirror and then fist pump - that’s how we used to roll
People die, we are all in a line and when you get to the front it’s your turn whatever method so live for the moment, love your inner circle and be fucking happy. Most of all be kind to people and understand people especially the young, the old and those who still don’t know the best version of themselves.
People are dying younger?
eh?
that makes no fucking sense when connected with any actual facts
Generation gap. People die younger in today’s era than they did post war for instance. It’s the excessive world we live in - cast your mind back to COVID - we are a nation that cannot do without. I’ve been part of this as well so I’m not excusing myself.
err... what evidence do you have for the idea people die younger?
Get a life and go read some statistics that are made up by someone on an over inflated salary. I’ve got blackheads to squeeze! Oh and it was my somewhat tongue in cheek opinion which I am I think entitled to if you don’t like the comment pass it by. Life’s too short."You're allowed to say whatever you like. I'm entitled to believe it's horse shit and ask for evidence. There is ample evidence of such things, and, at least until the Covid pandemic hit, life expectancy was going up in the west. If you believe life's too short for arguments over life expectancy, etc, then why did you post here? In an area where there's basically nothing but arguments about whether pubs closing and hurting fee fees are worse than a novel disease outbreak? I may believe that facts and evidence are an important part of my life. But you do you. | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. This is horse shit. Polio got worse as living standards improved, because it hit older, for one. We can see the rise and fall of measles specifically in pockets where vaccine uptake is lower, even when living standards remain steady." We've literally just had the letter from the local authority about the rise in measles cases as vaccinated numbers have fell. London for example has had a spike. It still makes my head wobble why people won't vaccinate their kids against something that can kill them. Something that had almost been irradiated Tinder | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. This is horse shit. Polio got worse as living standards improved, because it hit older, for one. We can see the rise and fall of measles specifically in pockets where vaccine uptake is lower, even when living standards remain steady. We've literally just had the letter from the local authority about the rise in measles cases as vaccinated numbers have fell. London for example has had a spike. It still makes my head wobble why people won't vaccinate their kids against something that can kill them. Something that had almost been irradiated Tinder " We see why in this very thread - people are told that vaccines are a threat and that the diseases aren't a big deal anyway. I'm sorry that you're seeing a rise in your area, and I hope it doesn't affect you personally. | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. This is horse shit. Polio got worse as living standards improved, because it hit older, for one. We can see the rise and fall of measles specifically in pockets where vaccine uptake is lower, even when living standards remain steady. We've literally just had the letter from the local authority about the rise in measles cases as vaccinated numbers have fell. London for example has had a spike. It still makes my head wobble why people won't vaccinate their kids against something that can kill them. Something that had almost been irradiated Tinder We see why in this very thread - people are told that vaccines are a threat and that the diseases aren't a big deal anyway. I'm sorry that you're seeing a rise in your area, and I hope it doesn't affect you personally." Oh we are vaccined to the hilt! I had rubella as a baby and still got vaccinated and my two have all the recommended (oldest just had her men/polio boosters yesterday actually) Tinder | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. " Evidence ? Where ? | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ?" Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask | |||
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| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask " Unfortunately "Google doctors" arent a terribly reliable source of information but thanks for sharing | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask " Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank | |||
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(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank" There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose." Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? | |||
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| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? " Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? | |||
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(closed, thread got too big) | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask " Could you add her peer-reviewed published evidence too, please? | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ?" So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? | |||
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| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? " This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate" | |||
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| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose." And these big Pharma companies have shareholders to satisfy ,so the more jabs they sell they happier the shareholders are . No doubt they are happy some people are on their 5th or 6th booster . | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate"" Where have you seen anyone say that? Ever? The point is you are choosing to believe your YouTube science. And others believe other YouTube science. The fact it's on YouTube is irrelevent. Accepting of course that anyone can post on YouTube. But trying to discredit YouTube as a media source is funny given a lot of tertiary education is served up on it. | |||
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| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate" Where have you seen anyone say that? Ever? The point is you are choosing to believe your YouTube science. And others believe other YouTube science. The fact it's on YouTube is irrelevent. Accepting of course that anyone can post on YouTube. But trying to discredit YouTube as a media source is funny given a lot of tertiary education is served up on it. " This! It is a platform, just like Google scholar is a platform for research. Neither give credibility to research, "you" do when critiquing it (and peer reviewed is one SMALL aspect of rigorous critique. | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. And these big Pharma companies have shareholders to satisfy ,so the more jabs they sell they happier the shareholders are . No doubt they are happy some people are on their 5th or 6th booster . " Stop stressing - the NHS is not administering boosters willy nilly. | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate" Where have you seen anyone say that? Ever? The point is you are choosing to believe your YouTube science. And others believe other YouTube science. The fact it's on YouTube is irrelevent. Accepting of course that anyone can post on YouTube. But trying to discredit YouTube as a media source is funny given a lot of tertiary education is served up on it. " And you separate the wheat from the crap how exactly? | |||
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| Reply privately |
"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask " I suggest everyone should google her Quite enlightening, not in the way you suggest though | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate" Where have you seen anyone say that? Ever? The point is you are choosing to believe your YouTube science. And others believe other YouTube science. The fact it's on YouTube is irrelevent. Accepting of course that anyone can post on YouTube. But trying to discredit YouTube as a media source is funny given a lot of tertiary education is served up on it. And you separate the wheat from the crap how exactly?" Same as most people I imagine, pick what suits your particular narrative and run with that. | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate" Where have you seen anyone say that? Ever? The point is you are choosing to believe your YouTube science. And others believe other YouTube science. The fact it's on YouTube is irrelevent. Accepting of course that anyone can post on YouTube. But trying to discredit YouTube as a media source is funny given a lot of tertiary education is served up on it. And you separate the wheat from the crap how exactly? Same as most people I imagine, pick what suits your particular narrative and run with that. " Surely, most people would want to accept the most valid and trusted evidence from people who are credible experts in their, who have published their evidence? | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate" Where have you seen anyone say that? Ever? The point is you are choosing to believe your YouTube science. And others believe other YouTube science. The fact it's on YouTube is irrelevent. Accepting of course that anyone can post on YouTube. But trying to discredit YouTube as a media source is funny given a lot of tertiary education is served up on it. And you separate the wheat from the crap how exactly? Same as most people I imagine, pick what suits your particular narrative and run with that. " Given that I only use YouTube for watching cats fall off tables my narrative options are limited | |||
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"And as for measles. All these conspiracy theorists!!! These people still think the moon landing was a hoax, princess di was murdered, oooo the government is just poisoning us all, too much social media believers. Too many gullible fools And too many sheep There is evidence that many common "viruses" vaccines had no effect whatsoever. The illnesses were on decline due to improved standards of living and that the vaccines did not have any additional impact. Evidence ? Where ? Google doctor Sam bailey She has many videos about viruses And Co wrote a re written virus mania book. Nice to see your curious enough to ask Unfortunately there are a lot of unscrupulous "anti Vax" "doctors" preying on vulnerable people who are easily fooled by their misinformation in the quest to make money. Every click helps their piggybank There are also alot of unscrupulous big pharmaceutical companies so I guess its loose loose. Wait.. Whaaaat?, are you suggesting that not all the peer reviewed "facts" disseminated by them is true? How can this possibly be? Millions of esteemed scientists worldwide Vs a guy on YouTube ? Any contest ? So is it your assertion that no credible or peer reviewed scientists use YouTube? This is an attempt at implying that there is an equivalence "Sone peer reviewed scientists post on YouTube therefore any post on YouTube is legitimate" Where have you seen anyone say that? Ever? The point is you are choosing to believe your YouTube science. And others believe other YouTube science. The fact it's on YouTube is irrelevent. Accepting of course that anyone can post on YouTube. But trying to discredit YouTube as a media source is funny given a lot of tertiary education is served up on it. And you separate the wheat from the crap how exactly? Same as most people I imagine, pick what suits your particular narrative and run with that. Surely, most people would want to accept the most valid and trusted evidence from people who are credible experts in their, who have published their evidence?" Suppose it depends on what you define as credible, experts, trusted evidence and published. It seems they are different for different people. And that's allowed. | |||
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"Thanks to those people who have messaged me both to throw insults and to show they are open to debate and look at the evidence. This is Doctor Sam Bailey YouTube chanel. https://youtube.com/@DrSamBailey?si=ctVUTslOXo0N5WtY An actual doctor that has thoroughly researched virology and covid. It's a good watch and she references research papers that back up the information she provides and anyone can look up and review the data. I also recommend reading virus mania" Is her research evidence published? I'm referring to the scientific literature, rather than social media. Please report any abuse to Admin | |||
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"Thanks to those people who have messaged me both to throw insults and to show they are open to debate and look at the evidence. This is Doctor Sam Bailey YouTube chanel. https://youtube.com/@DrSamBailey?si=ctVUTslOXo0N5WtY An actual doctor that has thoroughly researched virology and covid. It's a good watch and she references research papers that back up the information she provides and anyone can look up and review the data. I also recommend reading virus mania" She *was* a GP in New Zealand. GPs are not qualified in virology, that's why your GP would refer you to a specialist, it's a separate discipline so she's as qualified to speak about COVID as a barrister. They're both highly intelligent and well qualified. I suggest you research her claims on isolation of sars cov 2 and the reasons she is wrong. | |||
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"Thanks to those people who have messaged me both to throw insults and to show they are open to debate and look at the evidence. This is Doctor Sam Bailey YouTube chanel. https://youtube.com/@DrSamBailey?si=ctVUTslOXo0N5WtY An actual doctor that has thoroughly researched virology and covid. It's a good watch and she references research papers that back up the information she provides and anyone can look up and review the data. I also recommend reading virus mania" Is that the same Sam Bailey who started spouting covid conspiracies back in 2020 and was struck off in 2021? | |||
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"Thanks to those people who have messaged me both to throw insults and to show they are open to debate and look at the evidence. This is Doctor Sam Bailey YouTube chanel. https://youtube.com/@DrSamBailey?si=ctVUTslOXo0N5WtY An actual doctor that has thoroughly researched virology and covid. It's a good watch and she references research papers that back up the information she provides and anyone can look up and review the data. I also recommend reading virus mania Is that the same Sam Bailey who started spouting covid conspiracies back in 2020 and was struck off in 2021?" Yeah that's the one. | |||
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"I don't understand lay people's obsession with excess deaths. Why do you think people shouldn't be interested? I didn't say they shouldn't be, and as the OP indicates, there are multiple variables as to the causes. Ok I will rehrase. Why do you not understand that people will be interested? " I think it's fine to be interested. But many will not understand how to read the statistics and make their own conclusions which we've seen a lot of over the last few years. It's that old saying of "a little knowledge(learning)"... | |||
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"Poor hygiene, poor diets, poor lifestyle,too much alcohol and recreational drug's, aging population has resulted in an increase of deaths due to pneumonia and Alzheimer's, people refusing to get vaccinated against stuff that should have been consigned to history long ago,more preventable deaths due to excessive waiting times for A&E space and lack of hospital beds,NHS services cut due to the postcode care lottery,more deaths on the road because of more vehicles than ever, pollution, climate change causing more respiratory based issues...... There's many different reasons but I'd probably say growing population means more people to die. You forgot global warming and brexit" And microplastics | |||
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"Vast numbers of people arriving legally and illegally NHS overwhelmed. " Vast numbers of people who arrive legally work in the NHS. | |||
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"Well at the moment I dohave covid. It hasn't gone away uts still likely to hit us all at some point and if we are reasonably competent people you shukd have a few test kits so if you have it know it and take appropriate precautions so you don't give it to other people. We have to live with it now and adapt to that " Do you take a test for a cold or flu ,you know, other airborn viruses we infect each other with .? No we don't. | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments " Love the facts | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments " That's the spirit just make up random shit to suit your agenda. I've checked and I think you are correct not one person died from COVID it was all fake and designed to charge us more for potatoes and toilet roll. | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments Love the facts "Just a shame there aren't in the post.  | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments Love the facts
Just a shame there aren't in the post. "Not even rice people? | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments Love the facts
Just a shame there aren't in the post.
Not even rice people?"Especially them. Coming over here, getting in all our curry's. | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments Love the facts
Just a shame there aren't in the post.
Not even rice people?"Uncle Ben died a while back - no more Mr Rice Guy boom boom. | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments Love the facts
Just a shame there aren't in the post.
Not even rice people?
Uncle Ben died a while back - no more Mr Rice Guy boom boom."Just a thought, we could rename the forum Virice (it works if you say it out loud). | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments Love the facts
Just a shame there aren't in the post.
Not even rice people?
Especially them. Coming over here, getting in all our curry's. "Someones got to work there | |||
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"How about doctors more interested in cash than patients!" Our doctor won't take cash | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments " I love a global conspiracy. Brought you by leaders who can't have a party without being caught, or keep secret documents in their toilet. And what's the point if having cheap petrol if your aren't buying it? | |||
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"How about doctors more interested in cash than patients! Our doctor won't take cash " "The Doctors says he's coming, but you gotta pay in cash...." | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments I love a global conspiracy. Brought you by leaders who can't have a party without being caught, or keep secret documents in their toilet. And what's the point if having cheap petrol if your aren't buying it? " A while back, in the Politics forum a poster angry at the government who "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" Same poster in the Virus forum "the government are the head of a global conspiracy" It's just.........funny. | |||
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"It was all bullishit there was no more deaths during covid than any other year it was a test to see not stupid people are Buying everything in the supermarket did people think that food would just stop Get a vaccine that no one tested shut the country down because we will die now look everything has gone up no stops buying things that have gone up Petrol if we all stuck together and no one in the country filled up at BP there prices would go down crude oil is only 77 dollars a barrel last time the price of petrol went up to 120 years ago crude was 120 dollars a barrel so its not crude prices that’s made it 1.50 a litre its the rice people around the world that control the governments I love a global conspiracy. Brought you by leaders who can't have a party without being caught, or keep secret documents in their toilet. And what's the point if having cheap petrol if your aren't buying it? A while back, in the Politics forum a poster angry at the government who "couldn't organise a piss up in a brewery" Same poster in the Virus forum "the government are the head of a global conspiracy" It's just.........funny." Consistency is a tool of the deep state. | |||
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"Please people. I understand my views are not shared by all. I have had one guy in particular inbox me with vial hateful messages. I'd love to name and shame but I like being on here. If you disagree please be civil and comment in public to advance the discussion " Report abusive messages and let Admin. deal with it. | |||
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"How about doctors more interested in cash than patients!" Doctors... I've heard of them. Never managed to see one despite setting up camp outside their natural habitat. I think a rare species on the verge of extinction. | |||
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"Due to immigration and rising birth rates the population is exploding and yes people die in greater numbers " That's actually incorrect. Excess deaths means exactly that Excess more deaths then they would have expected. The modules take into account population growth and demographic changes such as an ageing population. What's more concerning is thst after a pandemic when unfortunately alot of the elderly and the most vulnerable lost there lived you would expect deaths to be below the expected rate. Not above.. | |||
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"The stats. show that the excess deaths were below the average for eight weeks after the outbreak, for nine weeks after the second wave, and for seven weeks after the third wave. But since week 15 of 2022 (ending 15 April), the excess deaths have only been below average for five weeks. " 5 year averages are slightly flakey. Suppose deaths were 150, 100, 100,100,100. 110 is below the five year average. Next year, we are looking at 100,100,100,100,110 103 is above the five year average. That's not to say they aren't useful as a broad measure, but less useful when drilling into more volatile numbers. Also, we need a degree of magnitude as well as direction. If we look at 101,100,104,102,103 then 102.5 is above the average yet lower than two of the years within the average. Probably nothing to get excited about. | |||
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"Whatever a group of numbers, pulled together and presented by people with their own agendas may say. You can't argue with people's own lives experiences, they know what they see with their own eyes. Sometimes if it looks like a duck and walks like a duck, it's a duck. " Indeed | |||
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"Please people. I understand my views are not shared by all. I have had one guy in particular inbox me with vial hateful messages. I'd love to name and shame but I like being on here. If you disagree please be civil and comment in public to advance the discussion Report abusive messages and let Admin. deal with it. " Im not sure is he's messaged within the thread at all? Pretty sure he's just a troll, he had blocked me so I couldn't see his profile but unblocked me this morning to point out a spelling mistake in my post above and to say that my opinions were killing people. I'm sure he's just a harmless keyboard warrior, looking at his profile he's an aging overweight alcoholic looking for younger girls. I'll consider reporting to admin however suspect there's nothing they will do  | |||
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"Please people. I understand my views are not shared by all. I have had one guy in particular inbox me with vial hateful messages. I'd love to name and shame but I like being on here. If you disagree please be civil and comment in public to advance the discussion Report abusive messages and let Admin. deal with it. Im not sure is he's messaged within the thread at all? Pretty sure he's just a troll, he had blocked me so I couldn't see his profile but unblocked me this morning to point out a spelling mistake in my post above and to say that my opinions were killing people. I'm sure he's just a harmless keyboard warrior, looking at his profile he's an aging overweight alcoholic looking for younger girls. I'll consider reporting to admin however suspect there's nothing they will do "Counter block him and report from his message. Admin will probably put a block between your profiles so he can't message you and vice versa. | |||
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"Please people. I understand my views are not shared by all. I have had one guy in particular inbox me with vial hateful messages. I'd love to name and shame but I like being on here. If you disagree please be civil and comment in public to advance the discussion Report abusive messages and let Admin. deal with it. Im not sure is he's messaged within the thread at all? Pretty sure he's just a troll, he had blocked me so I couldn't see his profile but unblocked me this morning to point out a spelling mistake in my post above and to say that my opinions were killing people. I'm sure he's just a harmless keyboard warrior, looking at his profile he's an aging overweight alcoholic looking for younger girls. I'll consider reporting to admin however suspect there's nothing they will do "You shouldn't really retaliate | |||
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