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"Are vax better than Dyson?" Combine it with shake n vax and you're sorted | |||
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"Where were the vaccines given away for free?" Did you pay for them?  | |||
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 ^^^^
Fat fingers | |||
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"Where were the vaccines given away for free? Did you pay for them? "No, where were they given away free? | |||
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"Where were the vaccines given away for free? Did you pay for them?
No, where were they given away free?"At point of administration. | |||
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"Where were the vaccines given away for free? Did you pay for them?
No, where were they given away free?
At point of administration. "Theybwere paid for by taxpayers money so no, not free if you pay tax. Let's not pretend AZ, Pfizer, moderna or others did all this for the good of humanity. | |||
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"Where were the vaccines given away for free? Did you pay for them?
No, where were they given away free?
At point of administration. Theybwere paid for by taxpayers money so no, not free if you pay tax.
Let's not pretend AZ, Pfizer, moderna or others did all this for the good of humanity. "The NHS is paid for but "free at the point of care/treatment". But, unlike prescriptions in England that are paid for, they were free. I was going to add, so I'll do it now, the govt (we ) gave vaccines to other countries.
I'm sure big pharma shareholders were rubbing their hands with glee at the ever increasing sales of vaccines. | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx" Rishi Sunak was a founding member of Theleme Partners, who are major investors in Moderna. The investment in Moderna is one of the biggest and most profitable the company has made through a hedge fund it created. Although Sunak left the firm in 2013, it is unknown what financial stake he still has with the company. Theleme is registered in the Cayman Islands, a tax haven which does not make company records public. Ordinarily, a partner in a hedge fund would own a stake in the management company and have money invested in its fund. I pointed out in another topic, that Prof Sir Jonathan Van-Tam was instrumental in brokering deals for Moderna in the UK, who incidentally now holds a senior position at Moderna. This is pure conjecture on my half, but presumably Van-Tam was deployed to distance Sunak from the shady activities taking place. Matt Hancock, another of the honourable men making tough decisions for our benefit, rubber stamped and announced the supply agreements with Moderna. I also wonder how much all those mentioned above have made from Moderna and who else amongst our caring politicians urging us to follow the science (retirement fund) have pocketed? | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx" You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong "I'm probably lining myself up for a fall here, as i'm not confident i understand much of what i've read regarding your question to the other poster, but it does seem that the spike protein can enter and remain in the blood. https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/apm.13294 | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong "Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that? | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?"Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain! | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?
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Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!"This is also true of "The Virus" In recent studies into Long Covid, it was discovered that not only does the Virus' Spike protein enter the brain, but it can stick around for a long time after the virus itself has gone. This is thought to be the most likely cause of "Brain Fog" Cal | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?
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Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!
This is also true of "The Virus" In recent studies into Long Covid, it was discovered that not only does the Virus' Spike protein enter the brain, but it can stick around for a long time after the virus itself has gone. This is thought to be the most likely cause of "Brain Fog"
Cal"That's interesting I do think the pureblood thing is nonsense. It's more about risk mitigation avoiding the jab. Most people are going to get infected. But getting injected with an mrna instruction to create more spike is another level Getting covid feels like a shot or rum. The jab a litre bottle. Multiple jabs multiple litres | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?
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Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!
This is also true of "The Virus" In recent studies into Long Covid, it was discovered that not only does the Virus' Spike protein enter the brain, but it can stick around for a long time after the virus itself has gone. This is thought to be the most likely cause of "Brain Fog"
Cal
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That's interesting
I do think the pureblood thing is nonsense. It's more about risk mitigation avoiding the jab. Most people are going to get infected. But getting injected with an mrna instruction to create more spike is another level
Getting covid feels like a shot or rum. The jab a litre bottle. Multiple jabs multiple litres "I think you've misunderstood what mRNA is and what it does. | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?
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Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!
This is also true of "The Virus" In recent studies into Long Covid, it was discovered that not only does the Virus' Spike protein enter the brain, but it can stick around for a long time after the virus itself has gone. This is thought to be the most likely cause of "Brain Fog"
Cal"The vaccine actually substantially reduces the risk and severity of long-Covid. | |||
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" ------- That's interesting I do think the pureblood thing is nonsense. It's more about risk mitigation avoiding the jab. Most people are going to get infected. But getting injected with an mrna instruction to create more spike is another level Getting covid feels like a shot or rum. The jab a litre bottle. Multiple jabs multiple litres I think you've misunderstood what mRNA is and what it does." Can you expand? | |||
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"Guys there are other viruses out there other than covid and are as bad as covid ... one is the sumertime flu virus " This, everything seems to be covid nowadays doesnt it. | |||
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"Guys there are other viruses out there other than covid and are as bad as covid ... one is the sumertime flu virus " Good point but what have been the relative impacts, compared to Covid? | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong
I'm probably lining myself up for a fall here, as i'm not confident i understand much of what i've read regarding your question to the other poster, but it does seem that the spike protein can enter and remain in the blood.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/apm.13294 "The mRNA vaccines didn't introduce the spike p er otein into people and their blood though. The body created the protein itself, where it joined the many different protein molecules that we create or have within our body at any time. The vaccine remained largely in the muscle it was introduced into, with some localised movement into adjacent lymph nodes. The body's own created proteins then helped to prime our immune systems to be able to recognise and attack the Covid virus, via its spikes, should it enter the body. Whilst the immune response can persist, ready to counter Covid, the proteins we have produced are short lived and removed by our body's standard husbandry. Similarly, the vaccine materials likely have a few weeks of presence in the body, before they are cleared out too. | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong
I'm probably lining myself up for a fall here, as i'm not confident i understand much of what i've read regarding your question to the other poster, but it does seem that the spike protein can enter and remain in the blood.
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/epdf/10.1111/apm.13294
The mRNA vaccines didn't introduce the spike p er otein into people and their blood though. The body created the protein itself, where it joined the many different protein molecules that we create or have within our body at any time.
The vaccine remained largely in the muscle it was introduced into, with some localised movement into adjacent lymph nodes.
The body's own created proteins then helped to prime our immune systems to be able to recognise and attack the Covid virus, via its spikes, should it enter the body. Whilst the immune response can persist, ready to counter Covid, the proteins we have produced are short lived and removed by our body's standard husbandry.
Similarly, the vaccine materials likely have a few weeks of presence in the body, before they are cleared out too. "*some research indicates this. Other research confirms the vaccine has travelled to the spleen, ovaries, brain... | |||
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"To respond to the poster regarding passing through the blood brain barrier so must be in the blood - First I looked at covid entering the brain. Viruses can so theories exist that covid can, but not yet found. Causes of viral encephalitis proves viruses pass through the BBB. I watched a brief video clip from some educational institution, the prof claims the spike protein can not pass through BBB and uses evidence that protein doesn't enter. It certainly won't be due to size as proteins are smaller than virus particles. It must be to do with the blood regulators but haven't found info regarding that. At present, what is known is that covid can cause non-infectious encephalitis - this is immune mediated. The immune system is destroying neurons. A subject I'm very familiar with and have theorised THIS causes long covid. Have stated this before and that the enceph society is doing research on it. I shall look a bit more re brain and covid vaccine but don't expect to gain further info." To be honest, I just did a quick search and saw a few studies mentioning it, it was more a question than a statement to be honest. Cheers for doing the legwork I couldn't be arsed to do
Given the links between long covid being helped or in some cases giving some people the symptoms of it. I wondered if the spike proteins created from the vaccines are playing a part too.
It's such a strange virus in how different people react to it. | |||
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"I looked, and again it is theory that the spike protein has entered the brain. The evidence they use in the inflammatory reaction. So I theorised that perhaps the vaccines can cause either autoimmune encephalitis or post-infectious enceph. And sure enough there's meta analyses on exactly that. So to recap, there are only theories that covid or the spike protein from the vaccines enters the brain." But we know enceph occurs. This explains ALL the neurological long covid symptoms. In a previous thread I mentioned I had this hypothesis (actually in 2020) as it occurred following the Spanish flu and was termed encephalitis lethargica. This was instrumental in helping me learn about my encephalitis sequelae. | |||
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"To respond to the poster regarding passing through the blood brain barrier so must be in the blood - First I looked at covid entering the brain. Viruses can so theories exist that covid can, but not yet found. Causes of viral encephalitis proves viruses pass through the BBB. I watched a brief video clip from some educational institution, the prof claims the spike protein can not pass through BBB and uses evidence that protein doesn't enter. It certainly won't be due to size as proteins are smaller than virus particles. It must be to do with the blood regulators but haven't found info regarding that. At present, what is known is that covid can cause non-infectious encephalitis - this is immune mediated. The immune system is destroying neurons. A subject I'm very familiar with and have theorised THIS causes long covid. Have stated this before and that the enceph society is doing research on it. I shall look a bit more re brain and covid vaccine but don't expect to gain further info.To be honest, I just did a quick search and saw a few studies mentioning it, it was more a question than a statement to be honest. Cheers for doing the legwork I couldn't be arsed to do
Given the links between long covid being helped or in some cases giving some people the symptoms of it. I wondered if the spike proteins created from the vaccines are playing a part too.
It's such a strange virus in how different people react to it."I'm fascinated by the brain, even more so since mine was damaged. | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?
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Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!
This is also true of "The Virus" In recent studies into Long Covid, it was discovered that not only does the Virus' Spike protein enter the brain, but it can stick around for a long time after the virus itself has gone. This is thought to be the most likely cause of "Brain Fog"
Cal"I disagree from what I know and from I've read. | |||
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"I looked, and again it is theory that the spike protein has entered the brain. The evidence they use in the inflammatory reaction. So I theorised that perhaps the vaccines can cause either autoimmune encephalitis or post-infectious enceph. And sure enough there's meta analyses on exactly that. So to recap, there are only theories that covid or the spike protein from the vaccines enters the brain." Pretty sure the mrna is bound to the lipid nanoparticles which is the free ride into the brain. There is research out there... I'll have a dig because you are nice and well researched and yes im not always right and I don't mind being wrong but hey that's the point of argument | |||
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"Re the vaccine being in the blood, the evidence linked states surprise at it being there and calls for more research. But as I stated earlier it does not remain in the blood. For warrior, a lesson - The blood is filtered by the liver, which processes nutrients, removes toxins, such as the byproducts from the breakdown of medications and alcohol. Changes ammonia to urea, processes and eliminates excess bilirubin, which is a waste product of the breakdown of red blood cells, produces immune system cells to eliminate bacteria and potentially harmful toxins from your blood. Your kidneys filter excess toxins and waste from your blood and release them in your urine. A short version " https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/gene-therapy/mRNA-loaded-lipid-nanoparticles-reprogram-cells/101/web/2023/08 So my reading is mrna could be causing cell necrosis | |||
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"Re the vaccine being in the blood, the evidence linked states surprise at it being there and calls for more research. But as I stated earlier it does not remain in the blood. For warrior, a lesson - The blood is filtered by the liver, which processes nutrients, removes toxins, such as the byproducts from the breakdown of medications and alcohol. Changes ammonia to urea, processes and eliminates excess bilirubin, which is a waste product of the breakdown of red blood cells, produces immune system cells to eliminate bacteria and potentially harmful toxins from your blood. Your kidneys filter excess toxins and waste from your blood and release them in your urine. A short version https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/gene-therapy/mRNA-loaded-lipid-nanoparticles-reprogram-cells/101/web/2023/08 So my reading is mrna could be causing cell necrosis" The technology is related the recipe is different. It would be like saying a roasted lamb is the same as a roasted pig. Both meats but different animals. | |||
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"Re the vaccine being in the blood, the evidence linked states surprise at it being there and calls for more research. But as I stated earlier it does not remain in the blood. For warrior, a lesson - The blood is filtered by the liver, which processes nutrients, removes toxins, such as the byproducts from the breakdown of medications and alcohol. Changes ammonia to urea, processes and eliminates excess bilirubin, which is a waste product of the breakdown of red blood cells, produces immune system cells to eliminate bacteria and potentially harmful toxins from your blood. Your kidneys filter excess toxins and waste from your blood and release them in your urine. A short version https://cen.acs.org/pharmaceuticals/gene-therapy/mRNA-loaded-lipid-nanoparticles-reprogram-cells/101/web/2023/08 So my reading is mrna could be causing cell necrosis" Wow! Way to misrepresent an article! Your reading is is non existent | |||
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" Your reading is is non existent" My reading of this is you're saying I'm retarded? | |||
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"To respond to the poster regarding passing through the blood brain barrier so must be in the blood - First I looked at covid entering the brain. Viruses can so theories exist that covid can, but not yet found. Causes of viral encephalitis proves viruses pass through the BBB. I watched a brief video clip from some educational institution, the prof claims the spike protein can not pass through BBB and uses evidence that protein doesn't enter. It certainly won't be due to size as proteins are smaller than virus particles. It must be to do with the blood regulators but haven't found info regarding that. At present, what is known is that covid can cause non-infectious encephalitis - this is immune mediated. The immune system is destroying neurons. A subject I'm very familiar with and have theorised THIS causes long covid. Have stated this before and that the enceph society is doing research on it. I shall look a bit more re brain and covid vaccine but don't expect to gain further info.To be honest, I just did a quick search and saw a few studies mentioning it, it was more a question than a statement to be honest. Cheers for doing the legwork I couldn't be arsed to do
Given the links between long covid being helped or in some cases giving some people the symptoms of it. I wondered if the spike proteins created from the vaccines are playing a part too.
It's such a strange virus in how different people react to it.
I'm fascinated by the brain, even more so since mine was damaged."Sorry to hear that. I've been doing combat sports since my early teens so I've had my fair share of concussions so have done quite a bit of research into that over the years. Led to me packing full contact stuff in. | |||
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" Your reading is is non existent My reading of this is you're saying I'm retarded?" Well it's two for two so I'm on pretty safe ground to say reading is really not your thing | |||
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" Your reading is is non existent My reading of this is you're saying I'm retarded? Well it's two for two so I'm on pretty safe ground to say reading is really not your thing" Like grammar "is is" yours?  | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?
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Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!
This is also true of "The Virus" In recent studies into Long Covid, it was discovered that not only does the Virus' Spike protein enter the brain, but it can stick around for a long time after the virus itself has gone. This is thought to be the most likely cause of "Brain Fog"
Cal
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I disagree from what I know and from I've read."--- I unfortunately don't have time to read the studies at the moment, so rely on articles in associated news. Here are a couple of the things that I've read: https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230410/Study-highlights-the-potential-long-term-neurological-effects-post-COVID-19.aspx https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230413/part-of-coronavirus-may-stick-around-the-brain#:~:text=Delivered%20by%20circulating%20blood%2C%20the,the%20skull%20and%20the%20brain. They both relate to the same research though. Cal | |||
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"I'm curious to know how much money Rishi Sunak made so far from Moderna vaxx You still ignoring my blood question? I'll assume you know you're wrong Studies have been done on how the spike protein effects the integrity of the blood brain barrier, so I'd assume it has to be in your blood to accomplish that?
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Binded with lipid nanoparticles gets spike into da brain. Insane in the membrane, insane in the brain!
This is also true of "The Virus" In recent studies into Long Covid, it was discovered that not only does the Virus' Spike protein enter the brain, but it can stick around for a long time after the virus itself has gone. This is thought to be the most likely cause of "Brain Fog"
Cal
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I disagree from what I know and from I've read.
---
I unfortunately don't have time to read the studies at the moment, so rely on articles in associated news. Here are a couple of the things that I've read:
https://www.news-medical.net/news/20230410/Study-highlights-the-potential-long-term-neurological-effects-post-COVID-19.aspx
https://www.webmd.com/covid/news/20230413/part-of-coronavirus-may-stick-around-the-brain#:~:text=Delivered%20by%20circulating%20blood%2C%20the,the%20skull%20and%20the%20brain.
They both relate to the same research though.
Cal "I read that yesterday. It's not (yet) peer reviewed and is highly theoretical. Of course that can change. | |||
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" Your reading is is non existent My reading of this is you're saying I'm retarded? Well it's two for two so I'm on pretty safe ground to say reading is really not your thingLike grammar "is is" yours? "Well that's it, you've convinced me How do I get my blood filtered to remove this evil vaccine | |||
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" Your reading is is non existent My reading of this is you're saying I'm retarded? Well it's two for two so I'm on pretty safe ground to say reading is really not your thingLike grammar "is is" yours?
Well that's it, you've convinced me
How do I get my blood filtered to remove this evil vaccine"There are protocols | |||
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"Guys there are other viruses out there other than covid and are as bad as covid ... one is the sumertime flu virus " I thought you might use a real but rare slate wiper, something like the Marburg virus. But summertime flu virus, is up there with the best of them. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. " Are they the comments that went up in smoke? | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. " 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. " That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. " There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, vaccinated or not. There are others whose life has been been preserved, vaccinated or not. What exactly are the "net gains for the country", its arguable there isn't any? Where is the unequivocal evidence of thousands of lives saved? How is that even calculated? From what I have read, with headlines or titles using the words "lives saved", quickly descend into indicates, suggests, estimated, which are words that no longer offer the substance of fact. Our health services for those with "different conditions" were definitely not sustained throughout the pandemic and vaccination programme...that is fact! | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. " Elaborate please. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. " Quite bizarre you repeating yourself. | |||
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"Go!" Is red or white twine he best to drink when one has covid? | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, vaccinated or not. There are others whose life has been been preserved, vaccinated or not. What exactly are the "net gains for the country", its arguable there isn't any? Where is the unequivocal evidence of thousands of lives saved? How is that even calculated? From what I have read, with headlines or titles using the words "lives saved", quickly descend into indicates, suggests, estimated, which are words that no longer offer the substance of fact. Our health services for those with "different conditions" were definitely not sustained throughout the pandemic and vaccination programme...that is fact! " what do you mean? | |||
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"My question: How does the vaccine (or spike protein) enter the blood? And if it does, how does it stay there? An enquiring HCP wants to know." it enters the blood through the syringe that you're injected with... do you mean, how does the spike protein interact with the immune system? I believe it is attacked by the immunity and your own body's defenses get a chance to 'practice' on a harmless version of the same type of protein it will encounter during a covid infection. The system adapts and retains the ability to fight that same protein without having to re-learn it when you become infected. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please." Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. | |||
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"My question: How does the vaccine (or spike protein) enter the blood? And if it does, how does it stay there? An enquiring HCP wants to know. it enters the blood through the syringe that you're injected with... do you mean, how does the spike protein interact with the immune system? I believe it is attacked by the immunity and your own body's defenses get a chance to 'practice' on a harmless version of the same type of protein it will encounter during a covid infection. The system adapts and retains the ability to fight that same protein without having to re-learn it when you become infected." It's intra-muscular. And I know how the immune system works, but thank you. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all." Clearly I imagined what I read.  | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. Clearly I imagined what I read. "That's not what the poster stated. In an indirect way they are pondering on the validity of your statement. And why not elaborate, like I asked? | |||
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"What is the chip gonna do to me when they turn it on? " The chip inside your head gets switched to overload..  | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. Clearly I imagined what I read.
That's not what the poster stated. In an indirect way they are pondering on the validity of your statement.
And why not elaborate, like I asked?"I didn't see that request was buried in oojamaflips post | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! " Ah bless | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! " Corona viruses have been around long before modern man. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. Clearly I imagined what I read.
That's not what the poster stated. In an indirect way they are pondering on the validity of your statement.
And why not elaborate, like I asked?
I didn't see that request was buried in oojamaflips post"And still won't elaborate. Indicates an unsubstantiated opinion to me. | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Corona viruses have been around long before modern man." So why the big fuss now? To make ppl and companies richer? To control ppl? | |||
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"We already had a perfectly good vaccination method that has been tried and tested for over 70yrs which has been proven to be highy effective and safe,why didn't we use it? " AZ did. That was recalled. | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Corona viruses have been around long before modern man. So why the big fuss now? To make ppl and companies richer? To control ppl? " It was a zoonotic virus. | |||
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"We already had a perfectly good vaccination method that has been tried and tested for over 70yrs which has been proven to be highy effective and safe,why didn't we use it? " Enlighten us, what was this proven safe and effective method for preventing infection by coronaviruses? | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! " Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… " But never in history have ppl been confined to their houses.. Can't visit relatives.. Can't go to work... Can't use a gym... Etc So what's different about this supposed virus? Why the big deal now? | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Corona viruses have been around long before modern man. So why the big fuss now? To make ppl and companies richer? To control ppl? It was a zoonotic virus." Allegedly. It's just a massive coincidence that it started in the same area that has a lab that also has previous safety concerns and happens to also work with coronaviruses. The same lab with ties to the NiH and gain of function research. Nah, all just one big coincidence, nothing to see, move along. | |||
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"We already had a perfectly good vaccination method that has been tried and tested for over 70yrs which has been proven to be highy effective and safe,why didn't we use it? Enlighten us, what was this proven safe and effective method for preventing infection by coronaviruses?" That's not what was stated. | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… But never in history have ppl been confined to their houses.. Can't visit relatives.. Can't go to work... Can't use a gym... Etc So what's different about this supposed virus? Why the big deal now? " It was a novel Corona virus to us humans. History teaches us (think Spanish flu) novel virus pandemics can be highly fatal. Not percentage wise but in numbers. | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Corona viruses have been around long before modern man. So why the big fuss now? To make ppl and companies richer? To control ppl? It was a zoonotic virus.Allegedly. It's just a massive coincidence that it started in the same area that has a lab that also has previous safety concerns and happens to also work with coronaviruses. The same lab with ties to the NiH and gain of function research. Nah, all just one big coincidence, nothing to see, move along." I made a thread about a scientist stating keeping an open mind  | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Corona viruses have been around long before modern man. So why the big fuss now? To make ppl and companies richer? To control ppl? It was a zoonotic virus.Allegedly. It's just a massive coincidence that it started in the same area that has a lab that also has previous safety concerns and happens to also work with coronaviruses. The same lab with ties to the NiH and gain of function research. Nah, all just one big coincidence, nothing to see, move along. I made a thread about a scientist stating keeping an open mind ""Don't rule out a lab leak". | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… But never in history have ppl been confined to their houses.. Can't visit relatives.. Can't go to work... Can't use a gym... Etc So what's different about this supposed virus? Why the big deal now? " A “supposed virus” . I can’t really help you! | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… But never in history have ppl been confined to their houses.. Can't visit relatives.. Can't go to work... Can't use a gym... Etc So what's different about this supposed virus? Why the big deal now? A “supposed virus” . I can’t really help you!
" | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… But never in history have ppl been confined to their houses.. Can't visit relatives.. Can't go to work... Can't use a gym... Etc So what's different about this supposed virus? Why the big deal now? A “supposed virus” . I can’t really help you!"But he’s never been tested….. ……. So it all must be a falsify | |||
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"Go!" Only 3 years too late | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… But never in history have ppl been confined to their houses.. Can't visit relatives.. Can't go to work... Can't use a gym... Etc So what's different about this supposed virus? Why the big deal now? " The government's responses of course should and have been questioned, that's totally appropriate. 'Why the big deal now?'. You presumably may have skipped over the news, where health systems were overwhelmed and mortality rates, not to mention the volumes of people with severe illness, were at catastrophic levels? I think most of us didn't miss that! Things were drastically different from the previous decades . Global expertise at infection analysis and vaccine development meant that we were very fortunate to have been living in 2020 and not much earlier historically. That expertise supported a quicker response. For right and wrong, it involves profit, as much in life does in the world. | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… " Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. Clearly I imagined what I read.
That's not what the poster stated. In an indirect way they are pondering on the validity of your statement.
And why not elaborate, like I asked?
I didn't see that request was buried in oojamaflips post
And still won't elaborate. Indicates an unsubstantiated opinion to me."Your cognitive dissonance is strong amelie | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet " I work for the NHS and I can most definitely say hospitals were over run in 2020, to the point private care agency changed their homes for covid patients over spill which most definitely helped our local hospital... and to those who say covid is just a cold, well I m day 3 of the first time with covid and its way more than just a cold , have a great day all | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections." This is my point There is no way anyone knows the long term effects from this jag.. And the dozen boosters after it I know ppl died... But if the News was to report on every single car crash to happen would you stop driving?? Covid deaths were on TV 24/7 scaring the shit out of ppl | |||
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"Are ppl still taking these things haha Never been tested No idea what the long term problems may be from them I find it very strange they managed to find a vaccine for a virus which was only a year old... But no cure for other things that have been around for years!!! Money making scheme by certain companies!! Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… But never in history have ppl been confined to their houses.. Can't visit relatives.. Can't go to work... Can't use a gym... Etc So what's different about this supposed virus? Why the big deal now? A “supposed virus” . I can’t really help you!
But he’s never been tested…..
……. So it all must be a falsify "And what exactly was the treatment if you did test positive?? | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet I work for the NHS and I can most definitely say hospitals were over run in 2020, to the point private care agency changed their homes for covid patients over spill which most definitely helped our local hospital... and to those who say covid is just a cold, well I m day 3 of the first time with covid and its way more than just a cold , have a great day all "So my mates are lying? | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet " Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate” | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate” "Ah but his mate isn't a liar (she says tongue in cheek) because my comment was first hand but hey what do we know eh | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate” "Their experiences were different to yours Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged? Staffing shortages? Lack of beds to discharge patients? Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020) https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1 So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity? Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it? The truth is out there | |||
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We should go to the pub and discuss this topic
Bring your mask | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet I work for the NHS and I can most definitely say hospitals were over run in 2020, to the point private care agency changed their homes for covid patients over spill which most definitely helped our local hospital... and to those who say covid is just a cold, well I m day 3 of the first time with covid and its way more than just a cold , have a great day all ". Hope you get to feel better soon
The professed ignorance of some people, of the state that hospitals were in during the first wave in 2020, is staggering. | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet I work for the NHS and I can most definitely say hospitals were over run in 2020, to the point private care agency changed their homes for covid patients over spill which most definitely helped our local hospital... and to those who say covid is just a cold, well I m day 3 of the first time with covid and its way more than just a cold , have a great day all
. Hope you get to feel better soon
The professed ignorance of some people, of the state that hospitals were in during the first wave in 2020, is staggering. "Yes hoping today is the worst of it... I m fit and healthy so gawd knows how the elderly have felt with it, certainly isn't anything like a common cold, or even flu for that matter, my body hurts like it did after giving birth | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
"Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse? Have a nice day. | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day. "My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant What is this, NHS top trumps? | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
"Certainly no top trumping here, just what I saw personally | |||
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| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
"First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm sure if great men like Donald Trump, President Biden, Matt Hardcock, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Vine, Philip Schofield etc, all the politicians we have known and loved over the years who always tell the truth and all the health experts and scientists with only noble agdendas inform us the vaxxes are safe; then they are. No need to ask any questions. " The same matt hanCOCK who told us not to visit relatives or your wee gran in The old folk home while he was shagging his secretary??? I certainly believe him | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon "Lol. It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
"Nice bit of backtracking…… | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking…… "Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking……
Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked? "You can lead a horse to water……. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking……
Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked?
You can lead a horse to water……. "You can't. You're just making it up. Like you're theory people who are jabbed aren't part of an experiment I'm in to control. Let's see how we get on | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking……
Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked?
You can lead a horse to water…….
You can't. You're just making it up. Like you're theory people who are jabbed aren't part of an experiment
I'm in to control. Let's see how we get on "It’s actually “your theory”….. thank us later | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking……
Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked?
You can lead a horse to water…….
You can't. You're just making it up. Like you're theory people who are jabbed aren't part of an experiment
I'm in to control. Let's see how we get on "Get yourself controlled, if that's your thing. Involve yourself in research, that helps the world. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections." That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. Clearly I imagined what I read.
That's not what the poster stated. In an indirect way they are pondering on the validity of your statement.
And why not elaborate, like I asked?
I didn't see that request was buried in oojamaflips post
And still won't elaborate. Indicates an unsubstantiated opinion to me.
Your cognitive dissonance is strong amelie"If you say so. Might be my ABI. But even then I don't avoid things like you do. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
"Registrar in what department? The respiratory nurse definitely trumps an orthopod. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm sure if great men like Donald Trump, President Biden, Matt Hardcock, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Vine, Philip Schofield etc, all the politicians we have known and loved over the years who always tell the truth and all the health experts and scientists with only noble agdendas inform us the vaxxes are safe; then they are. No need to ask any questions. The same matt hanCOCK who told us not to visit relatives or your wee gran in The old folk home while he was shagging his secretary??? I certainly believe him "Well you need to learn to trust your betters. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"I'm sure if great men like Donald Trump, President Biden, Matt Hardcock, Boris Johnson, Jeremy Vine, Philip Schofield etc, all the politicians we have known and loved over the years who always tell the truth and all the health experts and scientists with only noble agdendas inform us the vaxxes are safe; then they are. No need to ask any questions. The same matt hanCOCK who told us not to visit relatives or your wee gran in The old folk home while he was shagging his secretary??? I certainly believe him
Well you need to learn to trust your betters."None a them are better than me hahaha | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
Registrar in what department? The respiratory nurse definitely trumps an orthopod."No proof any of this cpl are nurses.. Only what she said | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
Registrar in what department? The respiratory nurse definitely trumps an orthopod.
No proof any of this cpl are nurses.. Only what she said "Why would she lie? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method?" AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all." Vaccines can and are know to rarely cause autoimmune disorders | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method?" AZ was a viral vector. Its not accurate to describe it as a "traditional" vaccine... | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
Registrar in what department? The respiratory nurse definitely trumps an orthopod.
No proof any of this cpl are nurses.. Only what she said
Why would she lie?"I don't know I'm out of this conversation
Giving me a sore head | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking……
Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked?
You can lead a horse to water…….
You can't. You're just making it up. Like you're theory people who are jabbed aren't part of an experiment
I'm in to control. Let's see how we get on
It’s actually “your theory”….. thank us later "People who arsed about grammatical errors are so gcse. I type these with my thumbs my proof reader doesn't check them they're busy checking my reports. I love the fact you've found that identifying grammatical errors on a php board is your true calling | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. Vaccines can and are know to rarely cause autoimmune disorders" This is new to me. Autoimmune diseases are a fascinating subject (and something I've endured). So I'd be interested in you sharing the knowledge on this. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. " I'll come back to this. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"https://www.ijidonline.com/article/S1201-9712(23)00702-6/fulltext " Your point? | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
| |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Does anyone honestly take COVID seriously anymore or get worried about any new strains or case numbers? I know no one tbh. " No, but by the same token at work last December so many people had bad chest infections. I was pretty unwell Not sure of the source, genetically engineerined virus's, children being give flu mist (or was that the cause of the outbreak of scarlet fever?!?). People's vaccine induced aids? Either way there was some bad lurgies. Optimistic I can actually enjoy yule this year | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Does anyone honestly take COVID seriously anymore or get worried about any new strains or case numbers? I know no one tbh. " I dont worry about it but obviously take it seriously. My son is seriously unwell with it at the moment so it's very real. | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"Does anyone honestly take COVID seriously anymore or get worried about any new strains or case numbers? I know no one tbh. I dont worry about it but obviously take it seriously. My son is seriously unwell with it at the moment so it's very real." Agreed | |||
(closed, thread got too big) | |||
| Reply privately |
"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking……
Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked?
You can lead a horse to water…….
You can't. You're just making it up. Like you're theory people who are jabbed aren't part of an experiment
I'm in to control. Let's see how we get on
It’s actually “your theory”….. thank us later
People who arsed about grammatical errors are so gcse. I type these with my thumbs my proof reader doesn't check them they're busy checking my reports. I love the fact you've found that identifying grammatical errors on a php board is your true calling"No, not a calling, just a hobby that winds people up. Have a lovely Saturday | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this." My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. | |||
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"Quite bizarre that there are so many blaze comments on here from ppl who were hoodwinked into having the jab.......Personally I would be really concerned right now for my long term health. 'Quite bizarre' too that within a reasonable discussion between people, that some post vague, as good as meaningless, posts that might be perceived as disruptive and scaremongering instead. . There are people who sadly are no longer amongst us, who didn't get vaccinated and passed away. There are others whose life has been preserved, because they were vaccinated. Overall, the many different vaccines were huge net gains for the country, saving thousands of lives and helping to sustain our health services for others with different conditions. That's just a popular narrative. Other narratives include people have damaged their immune systems and are now going to be laid out by bugs they would previously have fought off. Elaborate please. Do you mean they have damaged their immunity with vaccines? If so that's a new one on me. There's no evidence at all anywhere that vaccines make you more vulnerable to other types of infection. That's just complete nonsense. All ideas are 'narratives' but some have basis in reality, some are controversial, and some have no evidence at all. Vaccines can and are know to rarely cause autoimmune disorders" I looked into this. Yes you're right vaccines (any) can trigger autoimmune diseases. Infections can also trigger autoimmune diseases. This tells me it's the immune response to an actual pathogen or modified non-pathogenic organism is the cause. | |||
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"Proof of deaths in unvaccinated lower than vaccinated? https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween1april2021and31may2023/referencetableaug2023.xlsx " You tell us. Plus, when vaccinated people were increasingly the standard, wouldn't you expect that? | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine." And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation | |||
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"My mates work in hospitals. They weren't overwhelmed in 2020. There was far less people there. But go on, believe what you heard in the pub. Sorry. On the internet Interesting, I’m a Respiratory Nurse, I can assure you we worked ourselves ragged, the Dept was overwhelmed at times. This is first hand, rather than from a “mate”
Their experiences were different to yours
Out of interest, what was the cause of you being run ragged?
Staffing shortages?
Lack of beds to discharge patients?
Seasonal variations? (I seem to remember winter flu pushing the NHS to breaking point before 2020)
https://www.theguardian.com/society/2000/jan/09/futureofthenhs.medicineandhealth1
So tell me again, was it covid 19 that was the issue? Or the tories creating the perfect storm, then fanning the flames with behavioural scientists and media complicity?
Accounting for this, 2020 was no different to any other year, wasn't it?
The truth is out there
Yep, the issue was COVID. Did you miss tve part about me being a Respiratory Nurse?
Have a nice day.
My mate is a registrar, the other and orthopaedic consultant
What is this, NHS top trumps?
First hand vs hearsay
Have a great afternoon
Lol.
It's not vs, what a silly thing to say. Someone working in one trust found one thing, other working in a different trust found another
Nice bit of backtracking……
Could you point me to the bit where I backtracked?
You can lead a horse to water…….
You can't. You're just making it up. Like you're theory people who are jabbed aren't part of an experiment
I'm in to control. Let's see how we get on
It’s actually “your theory”….. thank us later
People who arsed about grammatical errors are so gcse. I type these with my thumbs my proof reader doesn't check them they're busy checking my reports. I love the fact you've found that identifying grammatical errors on a php board is your true calling
No, not a calling, just a hobby that winds people up. Have a lovely Saturday "You're really not turning me on. But keep trying | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation "Thanks for talking some sense! Personally I've become very vaccine cautious because of this whole shenanigans. I didn't realise exactly how corrupt big pharma is or the ch0ke hold they have on the NHS and WHO. But I do now. There's no going back | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation
Thanks for talking some sense!
Personally I've become very vaccine cautious because of this whole shenanigans. I didn't realise exactly how corrupt big pharma is or the ch0ke hold they have on the NHS and WHO. But I do now. There's no going back "Not only big pharma, pretty much any industry is corrupt as f**k, in my opinion. Owned and managed by NGO's with vested interests who basically own our politicians and any state run organisation as a consequence. If I could do it over, I'd be making an awful lot of medical and lifestyle decisions completely different. But we live and learn. | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation "I'm not educated about vaccines and their delivery methods as I have no dealings with them, however they all work to create an immune response, acquiring antibodies and B and T cells for actual infections, which speeds up the immune response. As a recipient I had to be wary to ensure none of the ingredients would cause anaphylaxis. AZ fell into that. That was me making an informed decision, just as I stress others should. My informed decision is not to take any Pfizer. | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation
I'm not educated about vaccines and their delivery methods as I have no dealings with them, however they all work to create an immune response, acquiring antibodies and B and T cells for actual infections, which speeds up the immune response.
As a recipient I had to be wary to ensure none of the ingredients would cause anaphylaxis. AZ fell into that. That was me making an informed decision, just as I stress others should. My informed decision is not to take any Pfizer."And yet your "informed decision" was based on misinformation. How many people, friends and family, might you have influenced to make a decision based on your misinformation with a background in healthcare? I rest my case. | |||
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"Proof of deaths in unvaccinated lower than vaccinated? https://www.ons.gov.uk/file?uri=/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland/deathsoccurringbetween1april2021and31may2023/referencetableaug2023.xlsx You tell us. Plus, when vaccinated people were increasingly the standard, wouldn't you expect that? " Thats an awful lot of data to pick apart, but just filtering out the deaths involving covid, i absolutely wouldn't expect that. To reason that there would be more vaccinated covid deaths because the uptake was greater than the unvaccinated, is totally absurd. The vaccinated shouldn't be dying of covid in greater numbers than the unvaccinated...the vaccine was supposed to save lives right? | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation
I'm not educated about vaccines and their delivery methods as I have no dealings with them, however they all work to create an immune response, acquiring antibodies and B and T cells for actual infections, which speeds up the immune response.
As a recipient I had to be wary to ensure none of the ingredients would cause anaphylaxis. AZ fell into that. That was me making an informed decision, just as I stress others should. My informed decision is not to take any Pfizer.
And yet your "informed decision" was based on misinformation. How many people, friends and family, might you have influenced to make a decision based on your misinformation with a background in healthcare?
I rest my case.
"None. I hadn't even returned to uni to finish my degree at that point. Just my eldest daughter and I had interesting conversations at the time. My informed decision was what I researched myself - the ingredients (and a potential compromised immune system but that's a whole different story that I could slam the NHS - local trust - about). I had already decided to avoid Pfizer but that wasn't on offer. So you've made a moot point using me as an example. | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation
I'm not educated about vaccines and their delivery methods as I have no dealings with them, however they all work to create an immune response, acquiring antibodies and B and T cells for actual infections, which speeds up the immune response.
As a recipient I had to be wary to ensure none of the ingredients would cause anaphylaxis. AZ fell into that. That was me making an informed decision, just as I stress others should. My informed decision is not to take any Pfizer.
And yet your "informed decision" was based on misinformation. How many people, friends and family, might you have influenced to make a decision based on your misinformation with a background in healthcare?
I rest my case.
None. I hadn't even returned to uni to finish my degree at that point. Just my eldest daughter and I had interesting conversations at the time.
My informed decision was what I researched myself - the ingredients (and a potential compromised immune system but that's a whole different story that I could slam the NHS - local trust - about). I had already decided to avoid Pfizer but that wasn't on offer.
So you've made a moot point using me as an example."There's plenty like you with that belief about the AZ, so not so moot, no. Regardless, I wish you good health going forward and that you find ways to help with your compromised immune system. | |||
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"Re two posts above, I will look further. On a quick glance I found one paper but not peer reviewed discuss mRNA vaccine in CSF in vitro. So need to establish if manipulated into CSF on a Petrie dish. On the other, a paper that states mRNA vaccine stays in blood up to 28 days (I have previously stated if it gets into blood it cannot remain there - implying it cannot remain there permanently). I will look again after work." My partner also believes it cannot remain in the blood. | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation
I'm not educated about vaccines and their delivery methods as I have no dealings with them, however they all work to create an immune response, acquiring antibodies and B and T cells for actual infections, which speeds up the immune response.
As a recipient I had to be wary to ensure none of the ingredients would cause anaphylaxis. AZ fell into that. That was me making an informed decision, just as I stress others should. My informed decision is not to take any Pfizer.
And yet your "informed decision" was based on misinformation. How many people, friends and family, might you have influenced to make a decision based on your misinformation with a background in healthcare?
I rest my case.
None. I hadn't even returned to uni to finish my degree at that point. Just my eldest daughter and I had interesting conversations at the time.
My informed decision was what I researched myself - the ingredients (and a potential compromised immune system but that's a whole different story that I could slam the NHS - local trust - about). I had already decided to avoid Pfizer but that wasn't on offer.
So you've made a moot point using me as an example.
There's plenty like you with that belief about the AZ, so not so moot, no.
Regardless, I wish you good health going forward and that you find ways to help with your compromised immune system. "That's a bit mean. Hopefully people aren't immunocompromised, although I feel the whole experience- jabs, isolation will have weakened peoples immune systems At the time I thought herd immunity was a terrible tory suggestion, and given the biolab leak nature of the supposed outbreak herd immunity might not work anyway. But now I feel being sat at home on my own has done my immune system no good whatsoever  | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation
I'm not educated about vaccines and their delivery methods as I have no dealings with them, however they all work to create an immune response, acquiring antibodies and B and T cells for actual infections, which speeds up the immune response.
As a recipient I had to be wary to ensure none of the ingredients would cause anaphylaxis. AZ fell into that. That was me making an informed decision, just as I stress others should. My informed decision is not to take any Pfizer.
And yet your "informed decision" was based on misinformation. How many people, friends and family, might you have influenced to make a decision based on your misinformation with a background in healthcare?
I rest my case.
None. I hadn't even returned to uni to finish my degree at that point. Just my eldest daughter and I had interesting conversations at the time.
My informed decision was what I researched myself - the ingredients (and a potential compromised immune system but that's a whole different story that I could slam the NHS - local trust - about). I had already decided to avoid Pfizer but that wasn't on offer.
So you've made a moot point using me as an example.
There's plenty like you with that belief about the AZ, so not so moot, no.
Regardless, I wish you good health going forward and that you find ways to help with your compromised immune system. "Thank you The moot point is that I received or forwarded misinformation. | |||
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" Research into coronavirus vaccines likely predates your birth… Please point me to the research into the long term side effects of mrna injections. That's not what was stated. Or are you forgetting AZ used the traditional method? AZ most certainly did not use the "traditional method". They used an adenovirus as the delivery system for the genetic code of the Coronavirus spike protein while Pfizer used nanolipid technology as the delivery system. There's nothing traditional about using the genetic code of a virus instructing your own cells to start manufacturing the toxin to build an immune response. I'll come back to this. My bad, I thought AZ was an attenuated vaccine. And the difference between you realising you made a mistake is that the "mainstreamers" will excuse you for making a genuine mistake whereas if my comment had have actually been untrue - I'd have been accused of spreading potentially harmful misinformation. My understanding, correct me if I'm wrong, is that you work in healthcare - I do wonder how many people were misinformed (making informed consent null and void) when getting the AZ in the past with "ah, but this is a traditional vaccine, not the one that has to do with genetic coding" because of how AZ was marketed and advertised as a vector vaccine rather than a DNA vaccine. You seem educated and made the mistake - how many uneducated sods were duped into taking something they were misinformed about how it actually works? I know plenty of people who have no problem getting a traditional attenuated vaccine but wouldn't touch the mRNA and DNA vaccines with a barge pole, considering it's the first time they've been used and came with no long term profile with regards to potential side effects. But hey ho, only the "antivaxxer" brigade spreads misinformation
I'm not educated about vaccines and their delivery methods as I have no dealings with them, however they all work to create an immune response, acquiring antibodies and B and T cells for actual infections, which speeds up the immune response.
As a recipient I had to be wary to ensure none of the ingredients would cause anaphylaxis. AZ fell into that. That was me making an informed decision, just as I stress others should. My informed decision is not to take any Pfizer.
And yet your "informed decision" was based on misinformation. How many people, friends and family, might you have influenced to make a decision based on your misinformation with a background in healthcare?
I rest my case.
None. I hadn't even returned to uni to finish my degree at that point. Just my eldest daughter and I had interesting conversations at the time.
My informed decision was what I researched myself - the ingredients (and a potential compromised immune system but that's a whole different story that I could slam the NHS - local trust - about). I had already decided to avoid Pfizer but that wasn't on offer.
So you've made a moot point using me as an example.
There's plenty like you with that belief about the AZ, so not so moot, no.
Regardless, I wish you good health going forward and that you find ways to help with your compromised immune system.
Thank you
The moot point is that I received or forwarded misinformation."Hence my comment was and I quote "might you have influenced" .
And for the record, I wasn't trying to have a go at you personally - the point I was trying to make was in the difference how misinformation is reacted to when it stems from a "mainstreamer" as opposed to an "antivaxxer". | |||
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