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Best of luck with it anyway  | |||
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" Maybe you could create your own club of the too cool too elite to go back in the same room with the other
Best of luck with it anyway "Thanks for your reply. Just felt we had to respond to this bit. We don't like "elite" clubs who filter their members by photo (went to one just the once, and it was all about posing - not our scene at all). This is not about elitism, just taking precautions. We realise that the level of risk we are happy with is different from what appears to be the norm on here and expect mockery for it, but we are not elitist. | |||
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"If in doubt stay at home! " Indeed. Been doing that for many months while others with a different risk profile have been out playing though, and there is FOMO. On the other hand a couple on our hotlist recently had a status about one of them being hospitalised with COVID, so there is also FOBD (Fear Of Being Dead). | |||
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"What's the first rule of Safe Club?" Stay at home on your own and don't go to Safe Club ? | |||
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"We have been using HEPA filtration both upstairs and down since we opened again in August " That's great. And it proves that the person above who said clubs will only do what the govt says they have to was wrong. "We stopped using passport and LFT since the Gov dropped the requirement too." I understand. Have you considered having a night every fortnight (or longer) for cautious people like us who would trade the indignity of being witnessed swabbing our throats for the knowledge that everyone in the club is negative? I doubt we are typical, but we would pay a few quid extra for that. I think you might end up making more. "At some point we have to trust that people will look after themselves by getting properly vaccinated." LOL. Have you read some of the posts on this forum? | |||
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 i wander how the mind works sometimes with clubs and being around other humans! do you leave the house? go shopping? get fuel? lol more risk buying milk lol, btw i`m not jabbed, never taken test,and travel freely over uk. not cause i`m ignorant but because as a human i question things x | |||
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"You humans crack me up i wander how the mind works sometimes with clubs and being around other humans! do you leave the house? go shopping? get fuel? lol more risk buying milk lol, btw i`m not jabbed, never taken test,and travel freely over uk. not cause i`m ignorant but because as a human i question things x"How many STI's? | |||
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"You humans crack me up i wander how the mind works sometimes with clubs and being around other humans! do you leave the house? go shopping? get fuel? lol more risk buying milk lol, btw i`m not jabbed, never taken test,and travel freely over uk. not cause i`m ignorant but because as a human i question things x"Never taken test, that is the definition of living in ignorance isn’t it? If you believe not testing and not getting jabbed are the answers then you have not asked the right questions  | |||
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"You humans crack me up i wander how the mind works sometimes with clubs and being around other humans! do you leave the house? go shopping? get fuel? lol more risk buying milk lol, btw i`m not jabbed, never taken test,and travel freely over uk. not cause i`m ignorant but because as a human i question things x"Hmmm. Really couldn't have asked for a better illustration of why I think clubs should be right on top of this, rather than merely following the government guidelines. _This_ is elitist behaviour. It is saying "my freedoms are important, even when exercising them impinges on the freedoms or health of others. I am more important than them." And as another poster says, having to test in swinging is nothing new - all responsible swingers should be testing regularly for STIs. | |||
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"The chameleons landing page has their entry requirements displayed as soon as you hit it." Thanks for that. "Also, didn't think LFT required throat swans, just nasal. At least the daily ones I do at work don't. " The instructions for some (most?) tell you to do just nasal swabs, but there has been plenty of evidence in my twitter stream (I follow several of Independent Sage) that you can test twice at the same time and the one with a throat swab first comes out +ve and the nasal only -ve. https://twitter.com/macronencer/status/1489566738689798151 refers to it. I told this to a work colleague who was testing -ve the other day but saying he felt ropey. He retested with throat and was +ve. Pretty certain that Nicola Sturgeon recommended it in Scotland. Am not expecting it in England (because the pandemic is over innit?). | |||
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"If you're fully vaxed why worry about other people, even if you meet an vaxed couple they could still be infected. If you say the vax works and you're vaxed no problem. " I'm pretty certain you know this, and you are just trolling, but just in case... No vaccine is 100% effective at an individual level. The benefits of vaccination are felt when whole communities have them, and population-wide vaccination programs have all but eradicated several diseases. The UK COVID vaccination program has effectively now stopped, with something like 70% fully vaccinated and boosted (which is not enough). | |||
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"If you're fully vaxed why worry about other people, even if you meet an vaxed couple they could still be infected. If you say the vax works and you're vaxed no problem. I'm pretty certain you know this, and you are just trolling, but just in case... No vaccine is 100% effective at an individual level. The benefits of vaccination are felt when whole communities have them, and population-wide vaccination programs have all but eradicated several diseases. The UK COVID vaccination program has effectively now stopped, with something like 70% fully vaccinated and boosted (which is not enough)." Very true no vacation is 100% that's why when you have say the MMR jab you must make sure you don't go near anyone who hasn't had, in case you catch it from them. Oh i missed that note on the consent form. | |||
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"If you're fully vaxed why worry about other people, even if you meet an vaxed couple they could still be infected. If you say the vax works and you're vaxed no problem. I'm pretty certain you know this, and you are just trolling, but just in case... No vaccine is 100% effective at an individual level. The benefits of vaccination are felt when whole communities have them, and population-wide vaccination programs have all but eradicated several diseases. The UK COVID vaccination program has effectively now stopped, with something like 70% fully vaccinated and boosted (which is not enough)." . Not enough for what ? Can’t believe the number of people on this forum who seem genuinely scared of the outside world. | |||
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"If you're fully vaxed why worry about other people, even if you meet an vaxed couple they could still be infected. If you say the vax works and you're vaxed no problem. I'm pretty certain you know this, and you are just trolling, but just in case... No vaccine is 100% effective at an individual level. The benefits of vaccination are felt when whole communities have them, and population-wide vaccination programs have all but eradicated several diseases. The UK COVID vaccination program has effectively now stopped, with something like 70% fully vaccinated and boosted (which is not enough).. Not enough for what ? Can’t believe the number of people on this forum who seem genuinely scared of the outside world. " Not enough to eradicate as explained about. Its not about being scared it's about being aware and when you see some of the comments on here it's good to be aware. | |||
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"If you're fully vaxed why worry about other people, even if you meet an vaxed couple they could still be infected. If you say the vax works and you're vaxed no problem. I'm pretty certain you know this, and you are just trolling, but just in case... No vaccine is 100% effective at an individual level. The benefits of vaccination are felt when whole communities have them, and population-wide vaccination programs have all but eradicated several diseases. The UK COVID vaccination program has effectively now stopped, with something like 70% fully vaccinated and boosted (which is not enough).. Not enough for what ? Can’t believe the number of people on this forum who seem genuinely scared of the outside world. Not enough to eradicate as explained about. Its not about being scared it's about being aware and when you see some of the comments on here it's good to be aware."
Some people won't even do a test before visiting a hospital with a fever! | |||
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"If you're fully vaxed why worry about other people, even if you meet an vaxed couple they could still be infected. If you say the vax works and you're vaxed no problem. I'm pretty certain you know this, and you are just trolling, but just in case... No vaccine is 100% effective at an individual level. The benefits of vaccination are felt when whole communities have them, and population-wide vaccination programs have all but eradicated several diseases. The UK COVID vaccination program has effectively now stopped, with something like 70% fully vaccinated and boosted (which is not enough).. Not enough for what ? Can’t believe the number of people on this forum who seem genuinely scared of the outside world. Not enough to eradicate as explained about. Its not about being scared it's about being aware and when you see some of the comments on here it's good to be aware." . The point of my comment was that we all have to make our own decisions about engaging with other people in the outside world and it is what it is. You can’t dictate to everyone you come into contact with so make your own mind up. If 70% doesn’t suit you tough. Personally i’m fine with it. 65, had all my jabs, had covid and am no longer concerned regarding my own health. | |||
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"Abfabs/Kestrels are still upholding COVID pass restrictions but not requiring a negative test prior to entry." Is that entry into the club or a pussy? | |||
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"We are a fairly risk-averse couple who have only played with one other couple since early March 2020 (all fully jabbed and tested on the day). We are obviously not completely risk averse as swinging has always carried risks that we have been happy with but SARS-COV2 has so far kept us away from clubs (which is our favourite way of engaging in our hobby). Recently we have started thinking about how (or whether) we would go about visiting a club again. We just visited a few web sites to try and figure out which clubs were least unsafe but no-one has policies front and centre on their website (apart from Liberty Elite who have a big splash about dropping the vaxxed-only policy). Clearly clubs want to maximise their revenue, and dropping restrictions is one way of having the largest pool of customers, but in doing so they are excluding the more cautious (including us). We accept that many (most?) people would poor scorn on our attitude, and say it's no worse than flu get over it etc. Is there somewhere a club actively trying to attract people like us? Who make a virtue of going beyond government guidelines? For example has anyone installed HEPA filters? Does anyone actively monitor LFD tests and ensure that people are swabbing their throat? Almost certainly not, but we'd be interested to know. We'd also like to see just how far along the paranoia spectrum people think we are!" Think the answer is fairly straight forward, If you don't want to risk it, don't go | |||
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"Abfabs/Kestrels are still upholding COVID pass restrictions but not requiring a negative test prior to entry." Well that’s completely counter-intuitive! One to avoid then! | |||
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"We are a fairly risk-averse couple who have only played with one other couple since early March 2020 (all fully jabbed and tested on the day). We are obviously not completely risk averse as swinging has always carried risks that we have been happy with but SARS-COV2 has so far kept us away from clubs (which is our favourite way of engaging in our hobby). Recently we have started thinking about how (or whether) we would go about visiting a club again. We just visited a few web sites to try and figure out which clubs were least unsafe but no-one has policies front and centre on their website (apart from Liberty Elite who have a big splash about dropping the vaxxed-only policy). Clearly clubs want to maximise their revenue, and dropping restrictions is one way of having the largest pool of customers, but in doing so they are excluding the more cautious (including us). We accept that many (most?) people would poor scorn on our attitude, and say it's no worse than flu get over it etc. Is there somewhere a club actively trying to attract people like us? Who make a virtue of going beyond government guidelines? For example has anyone installed HEPA filters? Does anyone actively monitor LFD tests and ensure that people are swabbing their throat? Almost certainly not, but we'd be interested to know. We'd also like to see just how far along the paranoia spectrum people think we are!" Ab Fabs / Kestrals is the safest place in the London area.  | |||
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"Abfabs/Kestrels are still upholding COVID pass restrictions but not requiring a negative test prior to entry. Well that’s completely counter-intuitive! One to avoid then!" That really makes no sense to me unfortunately. I'm much more comfortable in situations where I know people have tested negative, as it is a more likely up-to-date snapshot off their situation.. | |||
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"We are a fairly risk-averse couple who have only played with one other couple since early March 2020 (all fully jabbed and tested on the day). We are obviously not completely risk averse as swinging has always carried risks that we have been happy with but SARS-COV2 has so far kept us away from clubs (which is our favourite way of engaging in our hobby). Recently we have started thinking about how (or whether) we would go about visiting a club again. We just visited a few web sites to try and figure out which clubs were least unsafe but no-one has policies front and centre on their website (apart from Liberty Elite who have a big splash about dropping the vaxxed-only policy). Clearly clubs want to maximise their revenue, and dropping restrictions is one way of having the largest pool of customers, but in doing so they are excluding the more cautious (including us). We accept that many (most?) people would poor scorn on our attitude, and say it's no worse than flu get over it etc. Is there somewhere a club actively trying to attract people like us? Who make a virtue of going beyond government guidelines? For example has anyone installed HEPA filters? Does anyone actively monitor LFD tests and ensure that people are swabbing their throat? Almost certainly not, but we'd be interested to know. We'd also like to see just how far along the paranoia spectrum people think we are!" Vaxxed only policies are discriminatory. They have no place in this country. I am glad most places have got rid of them. | |||
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"Abfabs/Kestrels are still upholding COVID pass restrictions but not requiring a negative test prior to entry. Well that’s completely counter-intuitive! One to avoid then!" Agreed | |||
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"Ab Fabs / Kestrals is the safest place in the London area. "That may be the case, but - as many others have said - it is not very safe as it does not require evidence of tests on the day (preferably in addition to being fully vaxed). Even this still has drawbacks as LFDs seem not pick up omicron very well unless a throat swab is done, but very few people know this. So far as I can see the only club which does this is Club F in County Durham - six hours from us. But if things don't change (and they surely will) then one day we will make that journey. | |||
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"Vaxxed only policies are discriminatory. They have no place in this country. I am glad most places have got rid of them. " In most similar arguments I would agree with you. In particular I argued that seat belts should not be made compulsory as not wearing them would only damage the person making that choice (though if they only got maimed, rather than died, then the NHS would take a hit, so my argument was not that strong). In this case, however, the libertarian argument is invalid as the whole population is affected. With around 30% vaccinated or incompletely vaccinated the virus has loads of hosts, trillions of opportunities to mutate and if a fit variant with vax escape properties emerges it will put us back to square one (or worse). | |||
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"You would need to believe in all kinds of pseudo science for anything that you said to work. It’s in the air , you can’t see it and can’t avoid it" Well let's start with a bit of actual science. It isn't in all the air. It is only in the air where infected people have been, or air which has wafted from where they have been. No infected people = no infected air. Simples. | |||
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"Double vax and LFT to get into my local club" Why are all the sensible clubs over 5 hours away from us? Grrr. There doesn't seem to be one anywhere in the south or midlands which does this. (Prove us wrong somebody, please) Mind you this is going to get harder when people can't access free LFDs - presumably clubs will have to sell them. A potential revenue stream for them? | |||
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"Double vax and LFT to get into my local club Why are all the sensible clubs over 5 hours away from us? Grrr. There doesn't seem to be one anywhere in the south or midlands which does this. (Prove us wrong somebody, please) Mind you this is going to get harder when people can't access free LFDs - presumably clubs will have to sell them. A potential revenue stream for them?" . They won’t sell them because hardly anyone will be concerned enough to buy them. Certainly if life as i see it around central london is anything to go by. | |||
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Miss pc | |||
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"You would need to believe in all kinds of pseudo science for anything that you said to work. It’s in the air , you can’t see it and can’t avoid it Well let's start with a bit of actual science. It isn't in all the air. It is only in the air where infected people have been, or air which has wafted from where they have been. No infected people = no infected air. Simples." If we’re basing this on actual science , people are most contagious in the presymptomatic period prior to testing positive, so best just stay home or stay fully masked with your own air supply | |||
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"Double vax and LFT to get into my local club Why are all the sensible clubs over 5 hours away from us? Grrr. There doesn't seem to be one anywhere in the south or midlands which does this. (Prove us wrong somebody, please) They do currently supply them for those who haven't got any Mind you this is going to get harder when people can't access free LFDs - presumably clubs will have to sell them. A potential revenue stream for them?" | |||
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"...people are most contagious in the presymptomatic period prior to testing positive, so best just stay home or stay fully masked with your own air supply " ...which is precisely the point of LFD tests. The web page on gov.uk which introduced LFDs said exactly this. I understand there are people who just don't give a shit but I really struggle to believe that there are people who genuinely know as little about this virus as you seem to. So I have to conclude that you are a troll deliberately spreading disinformation. Please stop. 170k people have died in this country and millions across the world. | |||
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"They won’t sell them because hardly anyone will be concerned enough to buy them. Certainly if life as i see it around central london is anything to go by. " We are discussing a (hypothetical) situation where a -ve LFD test result is a pre-requisite for entry into the club. Of course people would buy them. | |||
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"Jaydees takes your temperature on every visit" As you can see from https://joinzoe.com/learn/omicron-symptoms elevated temperature is not one of the major symptoms of Omicron. "...ask you to sign a questionnaire, before entry." We would prefer to know that everyone had tested -ve than that they had filled in a form, to be honest. "Life is full of risks" Absolutely, and we are looking for an adult club that does a good job of minimising them. From what we have seen so far on this thread there is only one club in England that does a decent job of it, and they are literally the most distant one in the country from us! | |||
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"Jaydees takes your temperature on every visit As you can see from https://joinzoe.com/learn/omicron-symptoms elevated temperature is not one of the major symptoms of Omicron. ...ask you to sign a questionnaire, before entry. We would prefer to know that everyone had tested -ve than that they had filled in a form, to be honest. Life is full of risks Absolutely, and we are looking for an adult club that does a good job of minimising them. From what we have seen so far on this thread there is only one club in England that does a decent job of it, and they are literally the most distant one in the country from us!" I would expect that clubs will generally do only what us expected by law. The government will scrap ALL restrictions soon, and I will be surprised if ANY clubs continue to do anything to mitigate the risk. Ultimately, I think that it is now down to individuals to assess the risk for themselves and do what they feel is best as individuals. Cal | |||
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"I would expect that clubs will generally do only what us expected by law. The government will scrap ALL restrictions soon, and I will be surprised if ANY clubs continue to do anything to mitigate the risk." There is already plenty of evidence in this thread that several clubs go beyond the minimum so hopefully you are wrong, but when LFDs are harder to come by they may have no choice. "Ultimately, I think that it is now down to individuals to assess the risk for themselves and do what they feel is best as individuals." Hmmm. If you have read more than a few posts in these forums (or even this thread) you will see that some people are not well-informed enough to assess risk...and in some cases they are just wilfully ignorant. Both scare us. | |||
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"They won’t sell them because hardly anyone will be concerned enough to buy them. Certainly if life as i see it around central london is anything to go by. We are discussing a (hypothetical) situation where a -ve LFD test result is a pre-requisite for entry into the club. Of course people would buy them." . If it’s hypothetical how do you know people would buy them and not just go elsewhere. | |||
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"They won’t sell them because hardly anyone will be concerned enough to buy them. Certainly if life as i see it around central london is anything to go by. We are discussing a (hypothetical) situation where a -ve LFD test result is a pre-requisite for entry into the club. Of course people would buy them.. If it’s hypothetical how do you know people would buy them and not just go elsewhere. " If entry into our club of choice required an LFD then we would...it becomes part of the cost of entry. | |||
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"Yes fine. I was talking about real life as i see it. Not some hypothetical dream world, sorry. " So was I | |||
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"If entry into our club of choice required an LFD then we would...it becomes part of the cost of entry." On the other side of the equation, if everyone in the club is required to provide a -ve LFD test (preferably with throat swab for reasons above) then your chances of having to take time off work to isolate (while there is some semblance of common sense in our public health policies) or recover (if you aren't lucky enough to get a very mild dose) are very much reduced. For most self employed and zero hours workers this is a significant consideration. | |||
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"You humans crack me up i wander how the mind works sometimes with clubs and being around other humans! do you leave the house? go shopping? get fuel? lol more risk buying milk lol, btw i`m not jabbed, never taken test,and travel freely over uk. not cause i`m ignorant but because as a human i question things x
Never taken test, that is the definition of living in ignorance isn’t it? If you believe not testing and not getting jabbed are the answers then you have not asked the right questions "Never needed to conform to them needs, but i respect others that feel the need to panic, we all have choices, respect others! and i have no std`s lol funny how humans here pounce on any dirt to dig, enjoy shoveling there is none xx
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"We are also cautious OP as we have vulnerable family members. We were thinking only last week about going back to chameleons who I believe still require the passport or a negative lft and then Paul gets covid so is currently isolating. I dont think anywhere is going to be 100% safe but we prefer venues generally, including non swinging that show some effort." Op you're not on your own we would like to go back to chameleons ,cautious yes ,vulnerable family member So have to thing about them there's nothing wrong with being cautious and having your own views | |||
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"Very interested to know, from those of you with concerns. What is your attitude to spending a couple of hours in a busy pub or restaurant ? None of which,that i know of, check anything when you step through the door. If you never currently visit such places is that likely to be forever ? " All very mind boggling!  x | |||
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"Very interested to know, from those of you with concerns. What is your attitude to spending a couple of hours in a busy pub or restaurant ? None of which,that i know of, check anything when you step through the door. If you never currently visit such places is that likely to be forever ? All very mind boggling! x"Not really, never was, enjoy your life, maybe look up Pfizer profits see how you are part of a cash flow for the elite lol, i know i`m gonna get slated for this but hey, my eyes are open, and i`ve saved money for tax payers not being jabbed thx x | |||
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