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"I can post links to the data if anyone cares." Yes please. I am currently on the website  | |||
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"Your interpretation of something that you have presumably read, is very incorrect. Trying to make your opinion/interpretation to be claimed as facts, is naive at best. This is especially true as most of the perceived side effects are actually not even caused by any of the vaccines but are due to our minds - they are psychological aspects, not physically caused by a vaccine. " My mum is imagining her disability that appeared out of the blue within a week after her second shot? | |||
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"How is the data being misrepresented? They are just raw numbers. Yes it's possible some cases of adverse reactions will be unrelated to the vaccines, but at the same time it's widely acknowledged that these databases only capture a fraction of adverse events since most reactions especially the less serious ones usually never get reported." From Capradio: "The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention graph includes unverified reports submitted by the general public to the federal government’s Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System database, dating back to 1990 for children ages six to 17. The chart spikes in 2021, with more than 22,000 reports logged at the time screenshots of the CDC graph were shared on social media in early October." "There have been approximately 24,000 reports to the database so far this year. But those reports are not just for children who received a COVID-19 vaccination. The graph shows reports tied to all childhood vaccines, so some are not related to COVID-19 vaccinations. Still, most of the reports — about 22,000 — cite a COVID-19 shot. Experts say there are a variety of reasons why that number might be so high. Dean Blumberg, chief of pediatric infectious diseases at UC Davis Children’s Hospital in Sacramento, said as vaccine hesitancy has risen in recent years, reports to the database have gone up. “When a new vaccine comes out and the anti-vaccine lobby starts to attack it, then there is a spike in VAERS reports,” Blumberg said. “We saw this most dramatically with HPV vaccine approval and all the pushback against the manufacturer trying to push through school mandates in many states. And it seems reasonable to expect the same with COVID vaccines, especially considering how everything related to COVID has become politicized.” | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. " Any death is sad be that an adverse reaction to a medication or the vaccines in use but they are massively in the minority as opposed to the number of deaths from the virus.. Without a vaccine the numbers don't bear thinking about.. Respect totally that for the loved ones regardless of how a person has died it's awful.. As for the yellow card etc they've been targeted by anti vaxxers who seem intent on letting people take a chance with their lives because if half arsed conspiracy claptrap.. | |||
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"Correlation doesn't equal causation." It's a great site, I've reported my death 23 times. | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares." To put this in context, never before in history has there been a vaccine rollout on this scale. Also, never before have people been actively informed and encouraged to report "any" reaction to their vaccination... and on top of that, there have been campaigns on various campaign from AntiVaxx groups to spam these systems with "reports". Recently it was reported that tens of thousands of reports were deleted because they came from Russia. And finally, it is worth considering that the reports made on VAERS have included growing in height, becoming pregnant, turning green, and many of other bizarre things. Cal | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares. To put this in context, never before in history has there been a vaccine rollout on this scale. Also, never before have people been actively informed and encouraged to report "any" reaction to their vaccination... and on top of that, there have been campaigns on various campaign from AntiVaxx groups to spam these systems with "reports". Recently it was reported that tens of thousands of reports were deleted because they came from Russia. And finally, it is worth considering that the reports made on VAERS have included growing in height, becoming pregnant, turning green, and many of other bizarre things. Cal" yup some of the random ones are stunning especially the one that claims they effectively became the hulk  damn if it gave you super powers everyone would want it regardless of effects or side effects lol | |||
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"Correlation doesn't equal causation. It's a great site, I've reported my death 23 times." Sorry for your loss(es).  | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares. To put this in context, never before in history has there been a vaccine rollout on this scale. Also, never before have people been actively informed and encouraged to report "any" reaction to their vaccination... and on top of that, there have been campaigns on various campaign from AntiVaxx groups to spam these systems with "reports". Recently it was reported that tens of thousands of reports were deleted because they came from Russia. And finally, it is worth considering that the reports made on VAERS have included growing in height, becoming pregnant, turning green, and many of other bizarre things. Cal" The really shit thing is that all the actual issues being reported will likely be lost in all the crap the idiots are reporting.  | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares. To put this in context, never before in history has there been a vaccine rollout on this scale. Also, never before have people been actively informed and encouraged to report "any" reaction to their vaccination... and on top of that, there have been campaigns on various campaign from AntiVaxx groups to spam these systems with "reports". Recently it was reported that tens of thousands of reports were deleted because they came from Russia. And finally, it is worth considering that the reports made on VAERS have included growing in height, becoming pregnant, turning green, and many of other bizarre things. Cal" I thought we were already all aware that VAERS is as you have explained above. Clearly some missed about a million posts on here and everywhere else... | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares. To put this in context, never before in history has there been a vaccine rollout on this scale. Also, never before have people been actively informed and encouraged to report "any" reaction to their vaccination... and on top of that, there have been campaigns on various campaign from AntiVaxx groups to spam these systems with "reports". Recently it was reported that tens of thousands of reports were deleted because they came from Russia. And finally, it is worth considering that the reports made on VAERS have included growing in height, becoming pregnant, turning green, and many of other bizarre things. Cal The really shit thing is that all the actual issues being reported will likely be lost in all the crap the idiots are reporting. "Get the Fab Forum Covid Crew on the case - they can spot a fraud a mile off! | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. " Yes agreed. And it's why just quoting absolute numbers or one off events is so wrong. Everyone should know that you cant do anything without risk, from changing a light bulb to crossing the road. Similarly every single medical procedure or treatment comes with risk. Everything. We should all be taught how to weigh up those risks and decide for ourselves. Just for the sake of offering a balanced view, the BBC article covering the death of Lisa Shaw also states: "The clots are considered extremely rare - there have been 417 reported cases and 72 deaths - after 24.8 million first doses and 23.9 million second doses of the AstraZeneca vaccine in the UK." It doesn't mention how many of those vaccinated would likely have died without the vaccine. Where I believe the government is very remiss in terms of providing a balanced message is for vaccination of the young. If under 25 what are your risks from Covid & what are the risks from the vaccine? Factor in to that as well the risk you might pass on Covid if infected to other immediate family (given vaccination reduces the risk of this). The government message majors on the latter point, while ignoring the first two, which IMO is of very questionnable morality. Should someone choose to vaccinate their child, potentially putting that child at greater risk than not vaccinating them for the sake of their elderly neighbour? The medical profession should be leading here & putting the figures on the table to convince me (us?) one way or the other. | |||
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"Who cares ? The fact is the vaccine has reduced deaths end of" Anyone who has had a reaction may care? Do they matter less than someone who may have had a bad reaction to covid? | |||
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"Who cares ? The fact is the vaccine has reduced deaths end ofAnyone who has had a reaction may care? Do they matter less than someone who may have had a bad reaction to covid? " Apparently so | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares." That's not "what it means" at all. From VAERS itself "VAERS is not designed to detect if a vaccine caused an adverse event, but it can identify unusual or unexpected patterns of reporting that might indicate possible safety problems requiring a closer look." And "One of the main limitations of VAERS data is that it cannot determine if the vaccine caused the reported adverse event. This limitation has caused confusion in the publicly available data from VAERS WONDER, specifically regarding the number of reported deaths. There have been instances where people have misinterpreted reports of deaths following vaccination as deaths caused by the vaccines; that is not accurate. VAERS accepts all reports of adverse health events following vaccinations without judging whether the vaccine caused the adverse health event. Some reports to VAERS represent true vaccine reactions and others are coincidental adverse health events and not related to vaccination. Overall, a causal relationship cannot be established using information from VAERS report alone." People need to stop acting like a report on VAERS is an absolute truth. Do you know there is a "gun shot wound" listed as an abnormal event on a vaccine insert? Honestly this is why some of these things shouldn't be publically accessable. People don't understand what they're looking at. | |||
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"I see they've moved from Eudravigilance to VAERS now after being proved by the former that they were misinterpreting data lol. I wonder what agency they'll move onto next after being proven again they are deliberately misinterpreting data?" VAERS has been the reporting system in the US for years. They've not "moved on" from anything. | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. " Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. " I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed " Because stopping cancer treatments affect you and no one else. If someone works for the NHS but doesn't believe in the science of medicine, they shouldn't be working in the NHS. It's that simple. No one has a right to put other people in danger but increasing risks. And don't even try "vaccinated can transmit it too" yes they can, they're much less likely too. Vaccines work. They've reduced, eliminated and even eradicated viruses. | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed Because stopping cancer treatments affect you and no one else. If someone works for the NHS but doesn't believe in the science of medicine, they shouldn't be working in the NHS. It's that simple. No one has a right to put other people in danger but increasing risks. And don't even try "vaccinated can transmit it too" yes they can, they're much less likely too. Vaccines work. They've reduced, eliminated and even eradicated viruses. " Vaccinated person gave me covid, so yeah they can transmit it very well and I can't not say it... When I had covid myself I transmitted it to ZERO people by staying at home while sick. I don't see why you aren't able to trust nhs staff to stay at home if they test positive... Do you really think that anyone who isn't vaccinated is automatically highly infectious virus carrier who spits and coughs all over everyone around them? The basic definition of science is questioning everything then trying to find the answers to those questions. The only way that unvaccinated nhs staff or any other staff could potentially endanger anyone is by not coming into work because they're sick themselves. But we are all entitled to sick days, so why not them? And yes, if I do refuse the cancer treatment I will affect others - I would eventually end up taking a hospital bed for months and months while I'm slowly dying by choice (which many women do when they discover they have cancer while they're pregnant). | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed Because stopping cancer treatments affect you and no one else. If someone works for the NHS but doesn't believe in the science of medicine, they shouldn't be working in the NHS. It's that simple. No one has a right to put other people in danger but increasing risks. And don't even try "vaccinated can transmit it too" yes they can, they're much less likely too. Vaccines work. They've reduced, eliminated and even eradicated viruses. Vaccinated person gave me covid, so yeah they can transmit it very well and I can't not say it... When I had covid myself I transmitted it to ZERO people by staying at home while sick. I don't see why you aren't able to trust nhs staff to stay at home if they test positive... Do you really think that anyone who isn't vaccinated is automatically highly infectious virus carrier who spits and coughs all over everyone around them? The basic definition of science is questioning everything then trying to find the answers to those questions. The only way that unvaccinated nhs staff or any other staff could potentially endanger anyone is by not coming into work because they're sick themselves. But we are all entitled to sick days, so why not them? And yes, if I do refuse the cancer treatment I will affect others - I would eventually end up taking a hospital bed for months and months while I'm slowly dying by choice (which many women do when they discover they have cancer while they're pregnant). " We know vaccinated people can transmit but they are much less likely to do so. They were vaccinated and therefore did their bit. I have seen so many posts from people who tested positive but didn't even know they had covid. So, it's not about trusting NHS staff. | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed Because stopping cancer treatments affect you and no one else. If someone works for the NHS but doesn't believe in the science of medicine, they shouldn't be working in the NHS. It's that simple. No one has a right to put other people in danger but increasing risks. And don't even try "vaccinated can transmit it too" yes they can, they're much less likely too. Vaccines work. They've reduced, eliminated and even eradicated viruses. Vaccinated person gave me covid, so yeah they can transmit it very well and I can't not say it... When I had covid myself I transmitted it to ZERO people by staying at home while sick. I don't see why you aren't able to trust nhs staff to stay at home if they test positive... Do you really think that anyone who isn't vaccinated is automatically highly infectious virus carrier who spits and coughs all over everyone around them? The basic definition of science is questioning everything then trying to find the answers to those questions. The only way that unvaccinated nhs staff or any other staff could potentially endanger anyone is by not coming into work because they're sick themselves. But we are all entitled to sick days, so why not them? And yes, if I do refuse the cancer treatment I will affect others - I would eventually end up taking a hospital bed for months and months while I'm slowly dying by choice (which many women do when they discover they have cancer while they're pregnant). We know vaccinated people can transmit but they are much less likely to do so. They were vaccinated and therefore did their bit. I have seen so many posts from people who tested positive but didn't even know they had covid. So, it's not about trusting NHS staff. " So getting a test before the shift isn't trustworthy enough? | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares." Hasn't this been done before? | |||
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"I see they've moved from Eudravigilance to VAERS now after being proved by the former that they were misinterpreting data lol. I wonder what agency they'll move onto next after being proven again they are deliberately misinterpreting data? VAERS has been the reporting system in the US for years. They've not "moved on" from anything. " You've misunderstood what I said. Anti vaxxers were misinterpreting the EU equivalent to spread misinformation. Now they have moved to the US equivalent after Eudravigilance said anti vaxxers were misinterpreting their data. | |||
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"Your interpretation of something that you have presumably read, is very incorrect. Trying to make your opinion/interpretation to be claimed as facts, is naive at best. This is especially true as most of the perceived side effects are actually not even caused by any of the vaccines but are due to our minds - they are psychological aspects, not physically caused by a vaccine. " Waaaaaaahhh footballers dropping left right and centre like they've been snipered and its all in their minds  | |||
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"Your interpretation of something that you have presumably read, is very incorrect. Trying to make your opinion/interpretation to be claimed as facts, is naive at best. This is especially true as most of the perceived side effects are actually not even caused by any of the vaccines but are due to our minds - they are psychological aspects, not physically caused by a vaccine. Waaaaaaahhh footballers dropping left right and centre like they've been snipered and its all in their minds "Yeah 2 footballers at AFCON had heart damage a week or so ago. Covid damage to the heart happens quite often. | |||
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"Your interpretation of something that you have presumably read, is very incorrect. Trying to make your opinion/interpretation to be claimed as facts, is naive at best. This is especially true as most of the perceived side effects are actually not even caused by any of the vaccines but are due to our minds - they are psychological aspects, not physically caused by a vaccine. Waaaaaaahhh footballers dropping left right and centre like they've been snipered and its all in their minds
Yeah 2 footballers at AFCON had heart damage a week or so ago. Covid damage to the heart happens quite often."Yeah it's common since vaccines started | |||
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"Your interpretation of something that you have presumably read, is very incorrect. Trying to make your opinion/interpretation to be claimed as facts, is naive at best. This is especially true as most of the perceived side effects are actually not even caused by any of the vaccines but are due to our minds - they are psychological aspects, not physically caused by a vaccine. Waaaaaaahhh footballers dropping left right and centre like they've been snipered and its all in their minds
Yeah 2 footballers at AFCON had heart damage a week or so ago. Covid damage to the heart happens quite often.
Yeah it's common since vaccines started "It's not more common. It's just more monitoring and reporting. Footballers have a lot lower vaccination rate than the general public too. | |||
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"Your interpretation of something that you have presumably read, is very incorrect. Trying to make your opinion/interpretation to be claimed as facts, is naive at best. This is especially true as most of the perceived side effects are actually not even caused by any of the vaccines but are due to our minds - they are psychological aspects, not physically caused by a vaccine. Waaaaaaahhh footballers dropping left right and centre like they've been snipered and its all in their minds ""Left right and centre" eh? Is that a "medicinal chemist's" scientific opinion? How many? What's the total population? Is it due to being vaccinated? What's the normal rate in that population? Is it one vaccine or all of them? | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed Because stopping cancer treatments affect you and no one else. If someone works for the NHS but doesn't believe in the science of medicine, they shouldn't be working in the NHS. It's that simple. No one has a right to put other people in danger but increasing risks. And don't even try "vaccinated can transmit it too" yes they can, they're much less likely too. Vaccines work. They've reduced, eliminated and even eradicated viruses. Vaccinated person gave me covid, so yeah they can transmit it very well and I can't not say it... When I had covid myself I transmitted it to ZERO people by staying at home while sick. I don't see why you aren't able to trust nhs staff to stay at home if they test positive... Do you really think that anyone who isn't vaccinated is automatically highly infectious virus carrier who spits and coughs all over everyone around them? The basic definition of science is questioning everything then trying to find the answers to those questions. The only way that unvaccinated nhs staff or any other staff could potentially endanger anyone is by not coming into work because they're sick themselves. But we are all entitled to sick days, so why not them? And yes, if I do refuse the cancer treatment I will affect others - I would eventually end up taking a hospital bed for months and months while I'm slowly dying by choice (which many women do when they discover they have cancer while they're pregnant). We know vaccinated people can transmit but they are much less likely to do so. They were vaccinated and therefore did their bit. I have seen so many posts from people who tested positive but didn't even know they had covid. So, it's not about trusting NHS staff. So getting a test before the shift isn't trustworthy enough? " A test that is not 100% reliable? Do they have to prove they have taken the test? Plenty of those refusing vaccinations are doing so based on questionable sources and quite probably fall into "covid is a hoax" category... | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares." Given how many people globally have received the covid vaccine, compared to other vaccines, the figure is unsurprising. Expressed as a percentage of fatalities to doses of every vaccine administered would be a more interesting correlation - and one that suggests the vaccine is no more harmful than any other administered since 1990 | |||
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"If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that." You don't have to be a NHS employee to cancel your treatment  xx | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed Because stopping cancer treatments affect you and no one else. If someone works for the NHS but doesn't believe in the science of medicine, they shouldn't be working in the NHS. It's that simple. No one has a right to put other people in danger but increasing risks. And don't even try "vaccinated can transmit it too" yes they can, they're much less likely too. Vaccines work. They've reduced, eliminated and even eradicated viruses. Vaccinated person gave me covid, so yeah they can transmit it very well and I can't not say it... When I had covid myself I transmitted it to ZERO people by staying at home while sick. I don't see why you aren't able to trust nhs staff to stay at home if they test positive... Do you really think that anyone who isn't vaccinated is automatically highly infectious virus carrier who spits and coughs all over everyone around them? The basic definition of science is questioning everything then trying to find the answers to those questions. The only way that unvaccinated nhs staff or any other staff could potentially endanger anyone is by not coming into work because they're sick themselves. But we are all entitled to sick days, so why not them? And yes, if I do refuse the cancer treatment I will affect others - I would eventually end up taking a hospital bed for months and months while I'm slowly dying by choice (which many women do when they discover they have cancer while they're pregnant). We know vaccinated people can transmit but they are much less likely to do so. They were vaccinated and therefore did their bit. I have seen so many posts from people who tested positive but didn't even know they had covid. So, it's not about trusting NHS staff. So getting a test before the shift isn't trustworthy enough? A test that is not 100% reliable? Do they have to prove they have taken the test? Plenty of those refusing vaccinations are doing so based on questionable sources and quite probably fall into "covid is a hoax" category..." I agree with your point about testing reliability. I can't imagine how 10% of NHS staff could think that "Covid is a hoax" though. Most of those refusing vaccination are from ethnic minorities and those who are pregnant which is typical of the entire population. The former is perplexing and the latter is somewhat understandable. All of the Unions and professional bodies support and encourage vaccination at 11 on a scale of 1-10. However, they do also say that mandates do not necessarily help convince those who are refusing and they are very concerned that it was introduced without sufficient thought being given to potential staff shortages. However clinically valid the idea is there are practical consequences. | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares. Given how many people globally have received the covid vaccine, compared to other vaccines, the figure is unsurprising. Expressed as a percentage of fatalities to doses of every vaccine administered would be a more interesting correlation - and one that suggests the vaccine is no more harmful than any other administered since 1990 " Some context from the CDC Website (if you dont want to read it all the percentage of deaths reported for ANY reason after vaccination is 0.0022%) Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report ANY death after COVID-19 vaccination to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)external icon, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. More than 529 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through January 18, 2022. During this time, VAERS received 11,468 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records. A review of reports indicates a causal relationship between Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS. On December 16, 2021, CDC scientists released a comprehensive reviewpdf icon of reported U.S. cases through December 2, 2021. Continued monitoring has identified additional deaths for a total of nine deaths causally associated with Johnson & Johnson Janssen COVID-19 vaccination. CDC and FDA continue to review reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination and update information as it becomes available. | |||
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"There is a reason why the pharma corpos are immune to malpractice lawsuits regarding the vaccine. There has been far to much skulduggery attached to this pandemic. Is it any wonder we don't know which way is up." What "skulduggery"? I am very clear just looking at the hospitalisation and death rates before and after the vaccine rollout and the proportions of those with and without vaccination becoming seriously ill and dying. Covid vaccine consequences are covered by the same Government scheme as for other vaccines. | |||
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"But everyone will agree, that people have suffered adverse reactions and worse death. Those are real people with families. The BBC presenter Lisa Shaw was found to have died from taking the vaccine following a coroner report. She had family, that want answers, and don’t want anyone else to suffer the same fate. Surely we would all be the same if it was a member of our family? It’s important to remember whilst we debate.. bicker.. and sometimes abuse each other on these issues. People HAVE suffered reactions and death, and they and their families should be shown sympathy and respect. Do you want all medication that someone has had an unfortunate reaction to, to be stopped? Which would be basically every single medication that currently exists. I don't think anyone thinks any medication should be stopped. Main problem people have with is the mandates. If I worked for NHS I could literally go to the hospital tomorrow and cancel all of my cancer treatment and I'd be allowed to do that.. Not so much with the other potion though. And this is why people are scared and angry and... well... disappointed " As a principle, I don't agree with mandating either, although in practice i think there is a moral argument, particularly for NHS and care staff to be vaccinated against Covid-19. Cancer is not a communicable disease, so this is not a valid comparison, as not accepting cancer treatment is only putting you at risk, no-one else. NHS staff are already as i understand it required to receive a number of occupational health vaccinations including: Tuberculosis (TB); Hepatitis B; Varicella; Mumps Measles Rubella (MMR). In theory, why not Covid? Although i agree any mandatory medical intervention has equally strong ethical arguments the other way too. | |||
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"There is a reason why the pharma corpos are immune to malpractice lawsuits regarding the vaccine. There has been far to much skulduggery attached to this pandemic. Is it any wonder we don't know which way is up." The reason being is that if they were able to be sued for adverse effects to their vaccine products they simply wouldnt develop them and we would not have the vaccine. Which is why most countrys have vaccine comepnsation schemes for those unfortunately having severe ill effects from a vaccine. A 100% safe vaccine for all is an imposibility | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares. Given how many people globally have received the covid vaccine, compared to other vaccines, the figure is unsurprising. Expressed as a percentage of fatalities to doses of every vaccine administered would be a more interesting correlation - and one that suggests the vaccine is no more harmful than any other administered since 1990 Some context from the CDC Website (if you dont want to read it all the percentage of deaths reported for ANY reason after vaccination is 0.0022%) Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report ANY death after COVID-19 vaccination to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)external icon, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. More than 529 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through January 18, 2022. During this time, VAERS received 11,468 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records. A review of reports indicates a causal relationship between Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS. On December 16, 2021, CDC scientists released a comprehensive reviewpdf icon of reported U.S. cases through December 2, 2021. Continued monitoring has identified additional deaths for a total of nine deaths causally associated with Johnson & Johnson Janssen COVID-19 vaccination. CDC and FDA continue to review reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination and update information as it becomes available." So, no ‘increased risk’ at all when compared with fatality rate for other vaccines. Thank you for sharing. | |||
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"There is a reason why the pharma corpos are immune to malpractice lawsuits regarding the vaccine. There has been far to much skulduggery attached to this pandemic. Is it any wonder we don't know which way is up." World Governments: hey pharma. We have a problem. We need a vaccine for a virus produced in record time Pharma: Sure. We have a good idea on a vaccine for this virus based on years of research. We can do this with full trials with funding etc BUT because we are rushing this a bit, we don't want to be held accountable if thing go really wrong... World Governments. Do it and you are immune. Pharma: sure! | |||
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"How is the data being misrepresented? They are just raw numbers. Yes it's possible some cases of adverse reactions will be unrelated to the vaccines, but at the same time it's widely acknowledged that these databases only capture a fraction of adverse events since most reactions especially the less serious ones usually never get reported." How is it being missreprented? Er, how about by your own post? Not forgetting I can report my own death. 
Winston | |||
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"VAERS is the US database that tracks adverse events from vaccines. Apparently there have been over a million injuries reported from the covid 19 vaccines. That includes 22,000 deaths. To put in the contrast since 1990 when VAERS was started there have only been 914,393 cases of injuries and deaths reported following all FDA-approved vaccines. This means the covid shots have caused more injury and death, than every other vaccine on the market combined since 1990, making them possibly some of the most dangerous products ever released onto the market. I can post links to the data if anyone cares. Given how many people globally have received the covid vaccine, compared to other vaccines, the figure is unsurprising. Expressed as a percentage of fatalities to doses of every vaccine administered would be a more interesting correlation - and one that suggests the vaccine is no more harmful than any other administered since 1990 Some context from the CDC Website (if you dont want to read it all the percentage of deaths reported for ANY reason after vaccination is 0.0022%) Reports of death after COVID-19 vaccination are rare. FDA requires healthcare providers to report ANY death after COVID-19 vaccination to the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS)external icon, even if it’s unclear whether the vaccine was the cause. Reports of adverse events to VAERS following vaccination, including deaths, do not necessarily mean that a vaccine caused a health problem. More than 529 million doses of COVID-19 vaccines were administered in the United States from December 14, 2020, through January 18, 2022. During this time, VAERS received 11,468 reports of death (0.0022%) among people who received a COVID-19 vaccine. CDC clinicians review reports of death to VAERS including death certificates, autopsy, and medical records. A review of reports indicates a causal relationship between Johnson & Johnson’s Janssen COVID-19 vaccine and TTS. On December 16, 2021, CDC scientists released a comprehensive reviewpdf icon of reported U.S. cases through December 2, 2021. Continued monitoring has identified additional deaths for a total of nine deaths causally associated with Johnson & Johnson Janssen COVID-19 vaccination. CDC and FDA continue to review reports of death following COVID-19 vaccination and update information as it becomes available. So, no ‘increased risk’ at all when compared with fatality rate for other vaccines. Thank you for sharing. " the information is out there and easier to find than trawling FB, Twitter or some random Podcast | |||
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