Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
Join us FREE, we're FREE to use
Web's largest swingers site since 2006.
Already registered?
Login here
 | Back to forum list |
| Back to Virus |
| Jump to newest |  |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals?" Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.." Can't find any details or reference to that | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. Can't find any details or reference to that" If you Google BMJ unvaccinated you'll find it.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. Can't find any details or reference to that If you Google BMJ unvaccinated you'll find it.. " Found it. Didn't help that their website had crashed! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it’s dangerous and untrue to say that categorically, for vaccinated, the virus will be very mild. This simply isn’t true and certainly isn’t a given. Lots of factors effect the severity on a person by person case. Age, general health, co morbidities, BMI etc etc have a large effect on the severity - vaccinated or not."  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it’s dangerous and untrue to say that categorically, for vaccinated, the virus will be very mild. This simply isn’t true and certainly isn’t a given." They didn't say that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it’s dangerous and untrue to say that categorically, for vaccinated, the virus will be very mild. This simply isn’t true and certainly isn’t a given. They didn't say that. " They did. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. " I know I could look at the data but... How are they classing unvaccinated? No jabs, 1 jab, 2 jabs? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it’s dangerous and untrue to say that categorically, for vaccinated, the virus will be very mild. This simply isn’t true and certainly isn’t a given. They didn't say that. " With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This is exactly what they said, how are you taking that then? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. I know I could look at the data but... How are they classing unvaccinated? No jabs, 1 jab, 2 jabs?" Tbh I didn't delve that deep to look for that, not sure they did but happy to be corrected.. Locally the picture reflects that the majority of ICU beds are none vaccinated so I'm assuming had nil.. More are coming forward to get their first jabs, again locally.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. " so 10% difference between the two. Then add in adverse reactions and the stats will change considerably. Just a thought  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. I know I could look at the data but... How are they classing unvaccinated? No jabs, 1 jab, 2 jabs? Tbh I didn't delve that deep to look for that, not sure they did but happy to be corrected.. Locally the picture reflects that the majority of ICU beds are none vaccinated so I'm assuming had nil.. More are coming forward to get their first jabs, again locally.." I read it and unvaccinated were classed as either no jab or having had a jab within the past 12 weeks. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it’s dangerous and untrue to say that categorically, for vaccinated, the virus will be very mild. This simply isn’t true and certainly isn’t a given. They didn't say that. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This is exactly what they said, how are you taking that then? " I'm taking it exactly as written. Perhaps you should too
"for MOST vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for MANY unvaccinated people it won't be." This seems correct. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. so 10% difference between the two. Then add in adverse reactions and the stats will change considerably. Just a thought "Agreed, given the age demographics we have that's easily probable.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. Can't find any details or reference to that If you Google BMJ unvaccinated you'll find it.. Found it. Didn't help that their website had crashed!" Probably a virus.....
Winston | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals?" This isn’t what you asked for but is a good breakdown on deaths jan to oct 21 by in vaccinated 1 dose and 2 doses. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. Can't find any details or reference to that If you Google BMJ unvaccinated you'll find it.. Found it. Didn't help that their website had crashed! Probably a virus.....
Winston"It's okay, they've had their booster now  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? This isn’t what you asked for but is a good breakdown on deaths jan to oct 21 by in vaccinated 1 dose and 2 doses. https://www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/birthsdeathsandmarriages/deaths/datasets/deathsbyvaccinationstatusengland" Thanks. I'm not ready to brave a spreadsheet just yet though 
I was mostly interested in where figures were coming from as all sorts seem to be being bandied about recently but I hadn't seen anything re. vaccinated/unvaccinated in the usual figures.
The BMJ stats for unvaccinated in London were 66% in ICU. I guess London probably has higher number of unvaccinated population but still seems pretty high. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Should probably clarify that by 'a jab' in the past 12 weeks that meant having had only a first jab in the past 12 weeks = unvaccinated." Ta. So currently double jabbed still counts as vaccinated. Wonder how long? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Should probably clarify that by 'a jab' in the past 12 weeks that meant having had only a first jab in the past 12 weeks = unvaccinated. Ta. So currently double jabbed still counts as vaccinated. Wonder how long? " Well it does for them... at that time... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals " It’s only mild relative to Delta but more transmissible- would argue this wave is going to cause more damage to all of us through Long Covid than actual hospitalisations. Morbidity not the unvaccinated is what we should be looking at. I would agree with mandatory vaccinations but it’s not solving the problem of new variants. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s only mild relative to Delta but more transmissible- would argue this wave is going to cause more damage to all of us through Long Covid than actual hospitalisations. Morbidity not the unvaccinated is what we should be looking at. I would agree with mandatory vaccinations but it’s not solving the problem of new variants. " Hopefully being milder will mean less chance of long covid. Mandatory vaccinations could never be justified unless they prevented transmission and were suitably safe for all those forced to have them. My guess is that in the end nature will win this battle. Hopefully with a mild version of the virus! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals " So what will happen to your love of all things Covid 19 when the UK Government implements operations Rampdown in end of March beginning of April 2022 ?? also are you aware of how many legal cases & criminal investigations both nationally and internationally that have recently been launched against the Government? from observing your posts on Covid 19 you seem to know a lot of facts around Covid 19 as an illness but nothing about what is really happening in the world around you from an economic and social perspective and also how Governments control and implement policies on nations !! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"I think it’s dangerous and untrue to say that categorically, for vaccinated, the virus will be very mild. This simply isn’t true and certainly isn’t a given. They didn't say that. They did. " Who did ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. Can't find any details or reference to that If you Google BMJ unvaccinated you'll find it.. " and if you believe in there figures you are crazy | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. Can't find any details or reference to that If you Google BMJ unvaccinated you'll find it.. and if you believe in there figures you are crazy " I stand corrected... Must listen to rumours | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s only mild relative to Delta but more transmissible- would argue this wave is going to cause more damage to all of us through Long Covid than actual hospitalisations. Morbidity not the unvaccinated is what we should be looking at. I would agree with mandatory vaccinations but it’s not solving the problem of new variants. Hopefully being milder will mean less chance of long covid. Mandatory vaccinations could never be justified unless they prevented transmission and were suitably safe for all those forced to have them. My guess is that in the end nature will win this battle. Hopefully with a mild version of the virus! " Vaccination’s do prevent 70% of onward transmission’s ( not all transmissions) and so are vital ( along with NPI’s) to suppress the virus and case numbers in order to - minimise deaths and impact on healthcare systems - reduce the risk of future dangerous variants developing https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.31.474653v1 This is a pre preprint but it illustrates that Omicron has picked up the ability to bind to receptors in mice, turkeys and chickens- previous variants have not been able to do this. It’s raises the possibility of reverse zoonosis and that Omicron may have originally been a beta strain that spread into wildlife/ immunosuppressed patients -adapted/evolved and re entered ( maybe several times) until it eventually evolved as omicron. There is also the recombination with other SARS like disease in wildlife/animals ( eg Mers in camels) . The risk above events is incredibly low but the outcome is pretty catastrophic- hence the need the throw everything at this virus. Nature will make the next variant more transmissible, milder - yes probably- but what’s mild for one species could be horrendous for another. Covid does’nt need humans to survive. - | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. " Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Think the transmission was down to 63% with delta. Probably down again with omicron? " It’s crap without a booster but 55-80% with a booster-so it’s still pretty effective at blocking transmission. Like I said- we need to stop the next variant happening. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals So what will happen to your love of all things Covid 19 when the UK Government implements operations Rampdown in end of March beginning of April 2022 ?? also are you aware of how many legal cases & criminal investigations both nationally and internationally that have recently been launched against the Government? from observing your posts on Covid 19 you seem to know a lot of facts around Covid 19 as an illness but nothing about what is really happening in the world around you from an economic and social perspective and also how Governments control and implement policies on nations !! " What are you talking about? Government needs to plan how to move out of the pandemic. Pretty obvious. It will happen when it has to happen. If the hospitals are full in April are they going to close their eyes and cover their ears like the Covid deniers? What is "really happening"? No deaths? No serious illness? No overworked medical staff? No other medical conditions going untreated because they're overwhelmed? How would you balance that against the "economic and social perspective"? How many "international legal and criminal" investigations have been launched against the Government? What are they about? Have they been concluded yet? If Governments don't control and implement policies then, we, what are they supposed to do? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals So what will happen to your love of all things Covid 19 when the UK Government implements operations Rampdown in end of March beginning of April 2022 ?? also are you aware of how many legal cases & criminal investigations both nationally and internationally that have recently been launched against the Government? from observing your posts on Covid 19 you seem to know a lot of facts around Covid 19 as an illness but nothing about what is really happening in the world around you from an economic and social perspective and also how Governments control and implement policies on nations !! " Lol | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals " what a load of rubbish for a start know one really knows what variant of covid they have or had. The new Omicron variant tends to be more mild in vaccinated or unvaccinated in both. In actual fact science is telling us that those who have already had covid once and get it a 2nd time actually experience the most mild of symptoms. And as for hospital admissions try and get a full break down by age and ( those of ill health who can’t be vaccinated) | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Think the transmission was down to 63% with delta. Probably down again with omicron? It’s crap without a booster but 55-80% with a booster-so it’s still pretty effective at blocking transmission. Like I said- we need to stop the next variant happening. " taking one two or three maybe even 4 jabs will not stop mutations. I think this omicron variant had proved to every one that anyone can catch it no matter what their vaccination status is | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s only mild relative to Delta but more transmissible- would argue this wave is going to cause more damage to all of us through Long Covid than actual hospitalisations. Morbidity not the unvaccinated is what we should be looking at. I would agree with mandatory vaccinations but it’s not solving the problem of new variants. Hopefully being milder will mean less chance of long covid. Mandatory vaccinations could never be justified unless they prevented transmission and were suitably safe for all those forced to have them. My guess is that in the end nature will win this battle. Hopefully with a mild version of the virus! Vaccination’s do prevent 70% of onward transmission’s ( not all transmissions) and so are vital ( along with NPI’s) to suppress the virus and case numbers in order to - minimise deaths and impact on healthcare systems - reduce the risk of future dangerous variants developing https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.31.474653v1 This is a pre preprint but it illustrates that Omicron has picked up the ability to bind to receptors in mice, turkeys and chickens- previous variants have not been able to do this. It’s raises the possibility of reverse zoonosis and that Omicron may have originally been a beta strain that spread into wildlife/ immunosuppressed patients -adapted/evolved and re entered ( maybe several times) until it eventually evolved as omicron. There is also the recombination with other SARS like disease in wildlife/animals ( eg Mers in camels) . The risk above events is incredibly low but the outcome is pretty catastrophic- hence the need the throw everything at this virus. Nature will make the next variant more transmissible, milder - yes probably- but what’s mild for one species could be horrendous for another. Covid does’nt need humans to survive. I’m Sorry but clearly the vaccine does it reduce inward transmission by 70% if that was the case numbers would not be where they are. - " | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals So what will happen to your love of all things Covid 19 when the UK Government implements operations Rampdown in end of March beginning of April 2022 ?? also are you aware of how many legal cases & criminal investigations both nationally and internationally that have recently been launched against the Government? from observing your posts on Covid 19 you seem to know a lot of facts around Covid 19 as an illness but nothing about what is really happening in the world around you from an economic and social perspective and also how Governments control and implement policies on nations !! " I've no idea how many legal cases & criminal investigations both nationally and internationally that have recently been launched against the Government. How many have there been? Winston | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"The people I know who have had it, there hasn't been a difference in jabbed or unjabbed being more ill, or even showing more symptoms, it just seems to be luck of the draw. A close relative is triple jabbed, and due to underlying medical issues, if he even catches a cold it is very dangerous for him. Corona can be dangerous, but colds and flu can also so be serious for some people. " It is very unlikely that you know enough people who have had covid to be able to make this statement in any statistically meaningful way. A lot of the problem with peoples perception of Covid (and many other things in the world) is that basing it on your personal experience is just not accurate. You need to know a lot of people to be able to accurately judge the risk profiles. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. so 10% difference between the two. Then add in adverse reactions and the stats will change considerably. Just a thought "Well I was taught the difference between 61 and 39 is rather more than 10... and the unvaccinated account for just 9% of the population but account for 61% of those in ICU. You can add in adverse reactions if you like, it really doesn’t change the stats. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"It’s only mild relative to Delta but more transmissible- would argue this wave is going to cause more damage to all of us through Long Covid than actual hospitalisations. Morbidity not the unvaccinated is what we should be looking at. I would agree with mandatory vaccinations but it’s not solving the problem of new variants. Hopefully being milder will mean less chance of long covid. Mandatory vaccinations could never be justified unless they prevented transmission and were suitably safe for all those forced to have them. My guess is that in the end nature will win this battle. Hopefully with a mild version of the virus! Vaccination’s do prevent 70% of onward transmission’s ( not all transmissions) and so are vital ( along with NPI’s) to suppress the virus and case numbers in order to - minimise deaths and impact on healthcare systems - reduce the risk of future dangerous variants developing https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/2021.12.31.474653v1 This is a pre preprint but it illustrates that Omicron has picked up the ability to bind to receptors in mice, turkeys and chickens- previous variants have not been able to do this. It’s raises the possibility of reverse zoonosis and that Omicron may have originally been a beta strain that spread into wildlife/ immunosuppressed patients -adapted/evolved and re entered ( maybe several times) until it eventually evolved as omicron. There is also the recombination with other SARS like disease in wildlife/animals ( eg Mers in camels) . The risk above events is incredibly low but the outcome is pretty catastrophic- hence the need the throw everything at this virus. Nature will make the next variant more transmissible, milder - yes probably- but what’s mild for one species could be horrendous for another. Covid does’nt need humans to survive. I’m Sorry but clearly the vaccine does it reduce inward transmission by 70% if that was the case numbers would not be where they are. - " Sorry but clearly the vaccine does it reduce inward transmission by 70% if that was the case numbers would not be where they are. - " 30% is easily enough. The issue is we will not achieve herd immunity permanently with Covid due to waning immunity of both natural infection and vaccination- we need breathing space before the next variant comes along. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals what a load of rubbish for a start know one really knows what variant of covid they have or had. The new Omicron variant tends to be more mild in vaccinated or unvaccinated in both. In actual fact science is telling us that those who have already had covid once and get it a 2nd time actually experience the most mild of symptoms. And as for hospital admissions try and get a full break down by age and ( those of ill health who can’t be vaccinated) " Omicron is an estimated 51% more severe (risk of hospitalisation) than the original ‘wild type’ strain? Risk of hospitalisation with Omicron reduced 41% vs Delta. But Delta vs Alpha increased risk 52%. And Alpha vs wild type increased risk 62%. = Net +51% Unvaccinated aside: those who are vulnerable medically - Omicron is still a monster | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 " Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum!" Not all accountants are rich | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum!" Saw the clip and the guy came across well, to lose people in his position who have had covid and have antibodies and want to continue to serve in an already understaffed NHS would be stupid and shortsighted by any governing party.. If we've learnt anything these last two years surely it's that we are still learning and as such should be open to how things develop with this virus as we adapt to live with it.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum!" This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum!" Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. " That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. " I was (clearly badly) referring to this forum and the dismissive nature of many people on here. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark. "Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. I was (clearly badly) referring to this forum and the dismissive nature of many people on here." Oops, my mistake.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field?" Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid."Oops i meant he “wasn’t anti vaccine” | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid."Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions."Seriously!? A Consultant Anaesthetist isn’t fully aware of the consequences of his actions! A Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked on the Covid ICU throughout the pandemic! A Consultant Anaesthetist who works with colleagues with a huge wealth of knowledge between them! A Consultant Anaesthetist who will have spent a few of his years at med school studying exactly the same as a virologist and immunologist before deciding to specialise. And just to hammer it home...a Consultant Anaesthetist! You having a laugh? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge?" Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Seriously!? A Consultant Anaesthetist isn’t fully aware of the consequences of his actions! A Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked on the Covid ICU throughout the pandemic! A Consultant Anaesthetist who works with colleagues with a huge wealth of knowledge between them! A Consultant Anaesthetist who will have spent a few of his years at med school studying exactly the same as a virologist and immunologist before deciding to specialise. And just to hammer it home...a Consultant Anaesthetist!
You having a laugh?"No, completely serious. Let’s see how he responds to the media storm that he has created. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Seriously!? A Consultant Anaesthetist isn’t fully aware of the consequences of his actions! A Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked on the Covid ICU throughout the pandemic! A Consultant Anaesthetist who works with colleagues with a huge wealth of knowledge between them! A Consultant Anaesthetist who will have spent a few of his years at med school studying exactly the same as a virologist and immunologist before deciding to specialise. And just to hammer it home...a Consultant Anaesthetist!
You having a laugh?
No, completely serious. Let’s see how he responds to the media storm that he has created."I think the people who agree with him will support him and the people who do not will vilify him. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Seriously!? A Consultant Anaesthetist isn’t fully aware of the consequences of his actions! A Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked on the Covid ICU throughout the pandemic! A Consultant Anaesthetist who works with colleagues with a huge wealth of knowledge between them! A Consultant Anaesthetist who will have spent a few of his years at med school studying exactly the same as a virologist and immunologist before deciding to specialise. And just to hammer it home...a Consultant Anaesthetist!
You having a laugh?"He would not be the first intelligent person to have crackpot theories  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Seriously!? A Consultant Anaesthetist isn’t fully aware of the consequences of his actions! A Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked on the Covid ICU throughout the pandemic! A Consultant Anaesthetist who works with colleagues with a huge wealth of knowledge between them! A Consultant Anaesthetist who will have spent a few of his years at med school studying exactly the same as a virologist and immunologist before deciding to specialise. And just to hammer it home...a Consultant Anaesthetist!
You having a laugh?
No, completely serious. Let’s see how he responds to the media storm that he has created.
I think the people who agree with him will support him and the people who do not will vilify him.
Agree but does he really want to be seen as the poster boy of the anti vax movement? Like I said, I am not sure where this will lead for him.
" | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires." You said... “More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated.” Which is actually patently untrue. Why? 1) If he had been vaccinated there was an increased chance he would have had few or no symptoms. He would not therefore know he was ill and could spread asymptomatically. 2) NHS staff do daily lateral flow so unlikely he would have been in hospital working without picking up a positive test. 3) Having worked on Covid ICU throughout the pandemic he would be acutely aware of signs to look out for and taken mitigating actions so as to avoid spreading to colleagues and patients. You only made that statement as an emotive way to undermine his credibility by trying to paint him as irresponsible  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Seriously!? A Consultant Anaesthetist isn’t fully aware of the consequences of his actions! A Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked on the Covid ICU throughout the pandemic! A Consultant Anaesthetist who works with colleagues with a huge wealth of knowledge between them! A Consultant Anaesthetist who will have spent a few of his years at med school studying exactly the same as a virologist and immunologist before deciding to specialise. And just to hammer it home...a Consultant Anaesthetist!
You having a laugh?
He would not be the first intelligent person to have crackpot theories "That is true but what is crackpot about what he said? He talked about: 1) natural immunity due to having had Covid. 2) efficacy of vaccine and boosters dropping by such a level that to maintain the level of protection it would need monthly boosters. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires. You said... “More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated.” Which is actually patently untrue. Why? 1) If he had been vaccinated there was an increased chance he would have had few or no symptoms. He would not therefore know he was ill and could spread asymptomatically. 2) NHS staff do daily lateral flow so unlikely he would have been in hospital working without picking up a positive test. 3) Having worked on Covid ICU throughout the pandemic he would be acutely aware of signs to look out for and taken mitigating actions so as to avoid spreading to colleagues and patients. You only made that statement as an emotive way to undermine his credibility by trying to paint him as irresponsible "Plus he wears a mask so according to Easy, this is protecting others, not infecting them. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Where do you find the figures for vaccinated/unvaccinated in hospitals? Bmj recently reported that 61% of ICU occupancy is none vaccinated.. This or any government will only play softly, softly for so long with the tying up of a valuable limited resource (think we only have 5000, much lower than Germany do) ICU beds.. " There are 868 ICU covid patients, leaving 82% capacity. Of these, 61% is about 530 unvaxxed. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
Seriously!? A Consultant Anaesthetist isn’t fully aware of the consequences of his actions! A Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked on the Covid ICU throughout the pandemic! A Consultant Anaesthetist who works with colleagues with a huge wealth of knowledge between them! A Consultant Anaesthetist who will have spent a few of his years at med school studying exactly the same as a virologist and immunologist before deciding to specialise. And just to hammer it home...a Consultant Anaesthetist!
You having a laugh?
He would not be the first intelligent person to have crackpot theories
That is true but what is crackpot about what he said?
He talked about:
1) natural immunity due to having had Covid.
2) efficacy of vaccine and boosters dropping by such a level that to maintain the level of protection it would need monthly boosters.
"Oh so now it dropped from 10 weeks to 4 now then ?  | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires. You said... “More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated.” Which is actually patently untrue. Why? 1) If he had been vaccinated there was an increased chance he would have had few or no symptoms. He would not therefore know he was ill and could spread asymptomatically. 2) NHS staff do daily lateral flow so unlikely he would have been in hospital working without picking up a positive test. 3) Having worked on Covid ICU throughout the pandemic he would be acutely aware of signs to look out for and taken mitigating actions so as to avoid spreading to colleagues and patients. You only made that statement as an emotive way to undermine his credibility by trying to paint him as irresponsible "Answers 1. Less transmission means both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission- both are lessened by vaccines 2. This certainly mitigates but being negative at the start of a 12 hour shift can also mean you could turn positive by the end of it. 3. Not a fault of his( more of the government)- the mask he is wearing is not sufficient to stop transmission- needs to be N95 etc or equivalent - plus I doubt if ICU’s are monitoring CO2 levels as a proxy for air quality and viral load - but I would hope that they are. Have they HEPA filters? 4-6 air exchanges an hour? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires. You said... “More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated.” Which is actually patently untrue. Why? 1) If he had been vaccinated there was an increased chance he would have had few or no symptoms. He would not therefore know he was ill and could spread asymptomatically. 2) NHS staff do daily lateral flow so unlikely he would have been in hospital working without picking up a positive test. 3) Having worked on Covid ICU throughout the pandemic he would be acutely aware of signs to look out for and taken mitigating actions so as to avoid spreading to colleagues and patients. You only made that statement as an emotive way to undermine his credibility by trying to paint him as irresponsible
Answers
1. Less transmission means both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission- both are lessened by vaccines
2. This certainly mitigates but being negative at the start of a 12 hour shift can also mean you could turn positive by the end of it.
3. Not a fault of his( more of the government)- the mask he is wearing is not sufficient to stop transmission- needs to be N95 etc or equivalent - plus I doubt if ICU’s are monitoring CO2 levels as a proxy for air quality and viral load - but I would hope that they are. Have they HEPA filters? 4-6 air exchanges an hour?"Ok... 1) You missed the point being made. It is BECAUSE vaccines reduce symptoms that an individual may not actually realise they are ill. It is accepted that if you are unvaccinated then you are more likely to have symptoms and for these to be more severe. So it is also less likely for someone unvaccinated to not know they are ill and therefore they will know to take mitigating actions. 2) Yep and that equally applies vaccinated or not. 3) Won’t pretend I know half of what you are saying here but my point was that this individual is a very experienced and highly trained medical professional and will know and understand Covid safety procedure better than 99.9% of the population. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires. You said... “More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated.” Which is actually patently untrue. Why? 1) If he had been vaccinated there was an increased chance he would have had few or no symptoms. He would not therefore know he was ill and could spread asymptomatically. 2) NHS staff do daily lateral flow so unlikely he would have been in hospital working without picking up a positive test. 3) Having worked on Covid ICU throughout the pandemic he would be acutely aware of signs to look out for and taken mitigating actions so as to avoid spreading to colleagues and patients. You only made that statement as an emotive way to undermine his credibility by trying to paint him as irresponsible
Answers
1. Less transmission means both symptomatic and asymptomatic transmission- both are lessened by vaccines
2. This certainly mitigates but being negative at the start of a 12 hour shift can also mean you could turn positive by the end of it.
3. Not a fault of his( more of the government)- the mask he is wearing is not sufficient to stop transmission- needs to be N95 etc or equivalent - plus I doubt if ICU’s are monitoring CO2 levels as a proxy for air quality and viral load - but I would hope that they are. Have they HEPA filters? 4-6 air exchanges an hour?
Ok...
1) You missed the point being made. It is BECAUSE vaccines reduce symptoms that an individual may not actually realise they are ill. It is accepted that if you are unvaccinated then you are more likely to have symptoms and for these to be more severe. So it is also less likely for someone unvaccinated to not know they are ill and therefore they will know to take mitigating actions.
2) Yep and that equally applies vaccinated or not.
3) Won’t pretend I know half of what you are saying here but my point was that this individual is a very experienced and highly trained medical professional and will know and understand Covid safety procedure better than 99.9% of the population."Fair enough but going back to 1. Most transmission still occurs pre symptomatically in both vaccinated/ unvaccinated and that why Covid is so effective in spreading. True vaccinated asymptomatic cases maybe difficult to pick up but lateral flow testing will pick them up as their viral load is not proportional to clinical symptoms if any. Pre lateral flows , I accept it would have been difficult to catch these patients but I think it’s no longer the case. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires. You said... “More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated.” Which is actually patently untrue. Why? 1) If he had been vaccinated there was an increased chance he would have had few or no symptoms. He would not therefore know he was ill and could spread asymptomatically. 2) NHS staff do daily lateral flow so unlikely he would have been in hospital working without picking up a positive test. 3) Having worked on Covid ICU throughout the pandemic he would be acutely aware of signs to look out for and taken mitigating actions so as to avoid spreading to colleagues and patients. You only made that statement as an emotive way to undermine his credibility by trying to paint him as irresponsible "It is not "patently untrue". Perhaps you are able to interpret complex data than those who do it for a living. 1) Someone vaccinated is less likely to become infected. If they do become infected they will have the same maximum viral loading but for a shorter period. 2) LFTs do not tend to give false positives, but they do give false negatives. 3) Really? There are a range of symptoms and everyone is prone to thinking it won't be them. People also make poor judgements, especially after an extended period under intense stress such as two years of a pandemic. Again, you still have to CATCH COVID to get natural immunity. Reinfection occurs to post infected and vaccinated. The booster mitigates this. Again, please stop telling me why I am writing something. I have not said that he is wilfully irresponsible, but what he thinks is important is not necessarily what is good for the hospital in which he works or public health in general. That's why experts in immunology, virology, epidemiology and public health make these decisions and not anesthetiats who keep people safely under sedation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! This consultant anaesthetist caught Covid. He was sick. More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated. Could have been seriously ill or died. His argument is that he should not have to vaccinate because he has natural immunity. He does not say that he has any concerns about the Covid vaccine. He is also an anesthesiologist not an immunologist or virologist. Why should people not do as recommended by those who specialise in this field? Hmmm once again you read/see only what you want then try to reframe it in an attempt to undermine it. You imply he must have infected other people! How? When? You should be careful as that might be considered slander! I reckon having worked with Covid patients throughout the pandemic he is more than aware of how he needed to behave to not put people at risk! He is a Consultant Anaesthetist ergo he is not a virologist or immunologist. And...so what? He still knows more than 99.9% of the population including Sajid Javid. At med school he would have spent a few years learning the same as them before opting to specialise. Do you not respect his knowledge about how the immune system works? Do you not think he is capable of doing his own thorough research to inform his thinking? You’re right, he didn’t say he was anti vaccine. So what point are you making that couldn’t be determined before? He said he didn’t see why the vaccine should be mandated and he should lose his job come April especially as he has had Covid and has antibodies. So all you did was say what he said apart from questioning his knowledge? Please stop telling me what I am doing and thinking. I said he was MORE LIKELY to have infected others being unvaccinated. Simple statement. The point is that to get natural immunity you have to CATCH COVID. Another very simple concept. You may have few or no symptoms. You may become seriously ill or die. Again, very straight forward. The virus is mutating. Reinfection is becoming more possible for both those post infection and the vaccinated. There is clear evidence that boosters reduce this risk. Again, super simple It's nothing to do with his personal health, it's his effect on the hospital and its activities. He cannot be a clinical anesthesiologist. He can still teach, carry out research and do all sorts of other medical jobs. There are many roles in the NHS that have required vaccinations for many years. His choice not to as the world has changed and that's what his job now requires. You said... “More likely that have passed it to staff and patients than if vaccinated.” Which is actually patently untrue. Why? 1) If he had been vaccinated there was an increased chance he would have had few or no symptoms. He would not therefore know he was ill and could spread asymptomatically. 2) NHS staff do daily lateral flow so unlikely he would have been in hospital working without picking up a positive test. 3) Having worked on Covid ICU throughout the pandemic he would be acutely aware of signs to look out for and taken mitigating actions so as to avoid spreading to colleagues and patients. You only made that statement as an emotive way to undermine his credibility by trying to paint him as irresponsible
Plus he wears a mask so according to Easy, this is protecting others, not infecting them."You do understand that one thing does not fix everything. That's why there are multiple precautions that have to be taken including mask wearing AND vaccination. They cumulatively reduce risk. You don't think that there's any significant problem anyway, so no problem, right? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"@Easyuk and @DorsetJ will do a bit of a combined response... Point 1 So DorsetJ is saying most transmission happens in the pre-symptomatic stage. Really? I had not heard that before. Do you have a source for that please? Raises an interesting question because if, as Easyuk says (and I have read this) the viral load is the same in the vaccinated and unvaccinated but the period of time when the vaccinated are transmitting (shedding?) is shorter, then beyond daily LFT (which are not accurate anyway) there is no way to mitigate transmission without social distancing. I would argue that for many, with vaccination comes complacency and the reduction or complete dropping of all other risk mitigations. It is THAT behaviour that is driving the high numbers of infections with Omicron (with increased transmissibility). Although the subtext in much of the “official” narrative is to imply the spread is due to the unvaccinated. Sheer numbers would say otherwise. Easyuk says a vaccinated person is less likely to be one infected. Can you show me a source where it says that? My understanding was that the Covid vaccines do not stop you catching (or transmitting) but when you do catch they reduce the likelihood of you developing serious symptoms. You are now saying it stops some people actually catching Covid? Pretty sure I have seem you labour the point in other threads around the vaccines reducing severity not stopping you catching when people start attacking the vaccines and what we were told etc. Point 2 Yep I know LFTs are flawed (a shame almost 2 years in and nobody has developed something more accurate) but those are the tools we have and NHS workers are testing daily, so in relation to the Consultant Anaesthetist, statistically he had a good chance of identifying an issue and taking action. Remember you implied he had been spreading Covid. Point 3 Are you really questioning the professionalism and knowledge of a Consultant Anaesthetist!? Of course people like you or I will sometimes have poor judgement, but are you really saying that is comparable to this highly experienced medical professional! Aren’t you always saying we should listen to people like this (or is that only those on message?) Do you honestly think someone at the top of their game in an extremely highly skilled job, would not first have considered very carefully what he said to Javid? On camera! There will be fall out for him. I doubt very much he did this lightly. He would also be able to draw on a wealth of experience across multiple fields via colleagues. Do you not think he did his own research to establish his view? Would he really want to impact on his own professional standing with peers? Final point Your opening point was “Perhaps you are able to interpret complex data than those who do it for a living.” Not sure who you are referring to? Yourself? Are you a data analyst? In what industry? Are you saying you know better than a Consultant Anaesthetist with years of study, training and experience? You’ll have to explain that one because you’ve lost me! " 1) If you search, you will find that studies give a range of figures from 1.4% to 44% of Covid transmission being presymptomatic. Difficult to determine as it is a new disease and complexity of isolating this factor. Hence one of the many reasons to continue wearing masks in crowded enclosed locations and to try and maintain some distance. That is not a majority but it is some. However, on a global or national scale, even 1% is tens of millions and hundreds of thousands of infections. Being vaccinated reduces the chance of infection because you are infectious for a SHORTER TIME. Again, mask wearing and distancing further help this. Vaccines do not STOP people catching or transmitting the virus. They REDUCE the chance of doing so. Again, this is pretty easy to find data on. The vaccines also REDUCE the severity of illness suffered for MOST of those who receive it. 2) Regularly testing with a flawed test is a much better scenario than not. Being vaccinated and regularly testing is even BETTER. Relatively SMALL IMPROVEMENTS at scale can have BIG CONSEQUENCES. All medical staff in settings where many people are vulnerable and have a high risk of exposure for instance. 3) I have not questioned the professionalism of an anesthesiologist about anethesia. I am questioning his understanding of virus transmission compared to a virologist or epidemiologist. His understanding of anesthesia is undoubtedly excellent. His understanding of virus transmission is undoubtedly better than ours but significantly worse than that of a specialist in the field. I would rather that a plumber fixed my taps than a surgeon. I would rather that an anesthetist sedated me for an operation but I'd rather an immunologist advised me on vaccination. All medical doctors do not have the same understanding of everything. That is why there are specialists. Their knowledge is not equivalent. Also, the opinion of one specialist is not equivalent to the combined knowledge of many. He may well have carefully considered what he said on camera. I cannot speak to his motivation or physical and mental state though after two years of non-stop pressure with no end in sight and feeling that his career is under threat. Why do the vast majority of his peers have a different opinion to him? Why does the larger majority of specialists in this matter? I am not reinterpreting what specialists in this field are advising. I am repeating their advice. You are questioning it and claiming that it is in some way biased or corrupt or flawed or in error. I may well handle data and risk differently due to my job, but that is not particularly relevant here. Also, the opinion of an anesthesiologist compared to that of many immunologists, virologists, epidemiologists and public health professionals is not that relevant except that he has become news and will now fuel vaccine scepticism further. I do not feel qualified to question the medical and statistical advice without a thorough understanding of it, but you, and others, seem comfortable to. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"@Easyuk so reading that it appears that you agree with a lot of what I said but are even more verbose than I am and constantly try to reframe, and by implication, attempt to undermine it. Very strange. You do understand the difference between “questioning” and “asking questions” right? You have never once seen me questioning if the vaccines work (at reducing serious symptoms and reducing chance if hospitalisation). What you have seen me do across various threads is try to understand why people have different levels of trust in govt and pharma and also raise concerns about motivations driving an acceleration in the booster programme. This specific set of posts was kicked off because a highly qualified medical professional challenged the SoS for Health & Social Care about the vaccines being mandatory for all patient facing NHS or lose their job. His point was that this should be reviewed to make an allowance for those with antibodies due to having had Covid. I have sympathy with his view. He hasn’t said the vaccines don’t work but does question need for all. He also questioned the rapid drop in efficacy that might drive an even more accelerated and higher frequency booster programme. Again, I have sympathy with that viewpoint. Of course Virologists and Immunologists are the experts and will know more. But as admitted by yourself, we/they simply do not know everything and have got some things wrong. We/they are still learning so it is right for any of us to ask questions and we should never stop. You and I have absolutely no way of knowing what all Virologists and Immunologists know or what questions and concerns they have raised or may want to raise. Nor do we know how open to challenge the environment they are working in is without potential damage to reputation if they go against the accepted narrative." I still do not understand why you feel the need to continue to explain my thoughts and motivations to me as if you understand them. Nothing to be done about that, I suppose. Does "more verbose" mean that you will only address the points that suit you as there was too much that didn't? I didn't say that an anesthesiologist could not question whatever he wants to, but I am not going to give his opinion more or even equal weight than those who specialise in the topic, with more information and better tools knowledge and experience. What indication is there that this individuals points have not already been considered before the NHS vaccination policy was introduced? Are you aware of any new data that requires a re-evaluation? He may lose his job or may be redeployed. His actions dictate that. As you are aware, many roles in the NHS require vaccination. Again, you can question anything and I can ask why you believe that unrelated data is linked or why you would promote one opinion over another. You can question if any debate is not open. Perhaps, pressure was put on the automotive industry and seatbelts don't reduce car accident fatalities? Perhaps cigarettes are, actually, good for you. All the data has been falsified and scientists put under pressure? Perhaps drinking and driving is perfectly fine? At some point you accept that most people are honest and have integrity and will do their jobs to the best of their ability. Otherwise - conspiracy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"You’re an intelligent bloke, you know full well what verbose means so quit with the reframing. You also know what patronising means. You’ll also know the meaning of imperious. Last thing I will say (regardless of whether you still deem it necessary to have the last word) is that having spent a significant chunk of my career working at a senior level in central govt, I can tell you with absolute certainty that politically expedient policy decisions always trump the experts advice except where it would be simply impossible to do so (ie already in the public domain). Bye!" I should not "reframe" whilst you are completely neutral in your narrative? Sure
I am not discussing government advice, and neither have you been most of the time. The government balances the scientific advice (which you also "question") with economic, legal and ethical advice as well as their own political needs.
On multiple threads you have "questioned" by linking unconnected points without anything to support it. You have expected these unverified claims to be "disproved" in the face of the existing, widely available, data and expert opinion.
In this thread you are effectively saying that the scientific advice may have been influenced and somehow must be proven not to have been.
Hypothesise have to be proven. If you have a theory provide some supporting evidence or data . Doubts and questions are not evidence or even an indication of anything.
If you keep raising unfounded doubts or pushing unverifiable theories then I will keep outlining the established status (which do not come from me) and put them to you to correct. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals " the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. " So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. " Do you have a certified method to determine who needs a vaccine and who can rely on their own immune system that hasn't seen the virus or is it just blind luck ? And don't even start to suggest a certain demographic as I can tell you here and now that young fit and healthy people have died. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. Do you have a certified method to determine who needs a vaccine and who can rely on their own immune system that hasn't seen the virus or is it just blind luck ? And don't even start to suggest a certain demographic as I can tell you here and now that young fit and healthy people have died." yes - common sense and logic. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. Do you have a certified method to determine who needs a vaccine and who can rely on their own immune system that hasn't seen the virus or is it just blind luck ? And don't even start to suggest a certain demographic as I can tell you here and now that young fit and healthy people have died." They certainly have, but how many? What proportion of total deaths do they make up? There was another thread with a link to ONS data showing that people who have died without other underlying health issues (doesn’t say how many were known vs unknown) was in the high hundreds (out of 150k). I think context is important in these discussions. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
"and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years. "So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals. Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E. And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. Do you have a certified method to determine who needs a vaccine and who can rely on their own immune system that hasn't seen the virus or is it just blind luck ? And don't even start to suggest a certain demographic as I can tell you here and now that young fit and healthy people have died. They certainly have, but how many? What proportion of total deaths do they make up? There was another thread with a link to ONS data showing that people who have died without other underlying health issues (doesn’t say how many were known vs unknown) was in the high hundreds (out of 150k). I think context is important in these discussions." Absolutely context is important Define "under lying condition" I've seen it as people being admitted to ICU with underlying conditions they had no idea about until they had Covid and yes some died, yes statistics will show they died due to underlying conditions, but should they have been vaccinated or not ? Many vaccinated people with underlying conditions have survived and many heathy people with no KNOWN underlying conditions have sadly died. Not one for anyone other than the individual to decide much less some random on a swinger site. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?"people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike . | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years. "People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out. People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level. It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance. Could you share? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike ."The vaccines REDUCE the chance of becoming seriously ill. They REDUCE the chance of catching the virus at all. They REDUCE the chance of passing it on to others. That was always the scientific reality and what was communicated. The fact that our government chose to claim a miracle and the implicitly end of the pandemic is a different story... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike ."Fact check failed sorry | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share?"a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike ."CDC figures A new analysis out of the CDC shows just how extremely effective COVID-19 vaccines are against COVID-19 associated hospitalization and death. Among 1,228,664 fully vaccinated individuals across the United States, 185 (0.015%) had severe illness and 36 (0.0033%) died That’s pretty good to be fair. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike ."People making their own assessment on risk is fine but one thing they cannot quantify is how good is an individual’s immune system when it confronts Covid- that is extremely difficult to quantify- that’s why vaccines are an insurance policy. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Not all accountants are rich" Hahaha You seem to know more about this virus than him? If you questionn his reasoning then why not question everything else you hear (like the figures you constantly spout on here)?? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. " Exactly correct. Where would it stop? Had an accident while d*unk? = no treatment. Ate too many pies over the last while? = no. Treatment. Some of the "experts" in here need to really think this through. I'm pretty sure everyone does something that could disqualify them from treatment | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike .
People making their own assessment on risk is fine but one thing they cannot quantify is how good is an individual’s immune system when it confronts Covid- that is extremely difficult to quantify- that’s why vaccines are an insurance policy."lets keep it simple shall we - the risk of death to someone under the age of 25 is 0.0002% - this equates to 1 in 500,000 risk. This risk is even much lower if the person is healthy. Also don’t forget the death rate is provided with those who died with a positive PCR test (and not from covid). Leaving that aside let’s keep it simple like I said and we are looking at 1 in 500,000 risk for someone under 25 or 2 in 1,000,000. The incident rate for example for blood clot vaccine injuries which are very rare but are still much higher than 2 in 1,000,000 - it’s about 14 in 1,000,000 depending on which product. As you can see it makes no sense whatsoever after you calculate the risk benefit using official government data and the safety data provided by the vaccine manufacturers. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike .
People making their own assessment on risk is fine but one thing they cannot quantify is how good is an individual’s immune system when it confronts Covid- that is extremely difficult to quantify- that’s why vaccines are an insurance policy.lets keep it simple shall we - the risk of death to someone under the age of 25 is 0.0002% - this equates to 1 in 500,000 risk.
This risk is even much lower if the person is healthy. Also don’t forget the death rate is provided with those who died with a positive PCR test (and not from covid). Leaving that aside let’s keep it simple like I said and we are looking at 1 in 500,000 risk for someone under 25 or 2 in 1,000,000.
The incident rate for example for blood clot vaccine injuries which are very rare but are still much higher than 2 in 1,000,000 - it’s about 14 in 1,000,000 depending on which product. As you can see it makes no sense whatsoever after you calculate the risk benefit using official government data and the safety data provided by the vaccine manufacturers. "I would suggest that the effects of long Covid on life span are not known yet but I think you should not ignore the fact that you may end up having a disability or shorten life span as a result of a Covid infection. Morbidity should come into your risk calculation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike .
People making their own assessment on risk is fine but one thing they cannot quantify is how good is an individual’s immune system when it confronts Covid- that is extremely difficult to quantify- that’s why vaccines are an insurance policy.lets keep it simple shall we - the risk of death to someone under the age of 25 is 0.0002% - this equates to 1 in 500,000 risk.
This risk is even much lower if the person is healthy. Also don’t forget the death rate is provided with those who died with a positive PCR test (and not from covid). Leaving that aside let’s keep it simple like I said and we are looking at 1 in 500,000 risk for someone under 25 or 2 in 1,000,000.
The incident rate for example for blood clot vaccine injuries which are very rare but are still much higher than 2 in 1,000,000 - it’s about 14 in 1,000,000 depending on which product. As you can see it makes no sense whatsoever after you calculate the risk benefit using official government data and the safety data provided by the vaccine manufacturers.
I would suggest that the effects of long Covid on life span are not known yet but I think you should not ignore the fact that you may end up having a disability or shorten life span as a result of a Covid infection. Morbidity should come into your risk calculation."there are a lot unknowns and risk uncertainty; for example the risks associated of mixing 2 Pfizer doses with a Moderna booster ; risk of flu jab and covid jab at same time ; the medium to long term risks of the vaccines themselves, don’t forget they have been authorised for emergency use only; the list goes on. But if you feel after all that , that long covid is more of a risk, or covid in general poses more of risk of harm to your health then by all means go ahead and take the jabs. The risks I presented include those with underlying conditions and Co-morbidities so the risk is much much lower again for healthy people. In the case of myself under 50s the risk of death is about 0.02 which equates to 1 in 50,000 risk ; probably much less than that as I don’t smoke and am pretty healthy. So on that basis I will take my chances. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike .
People making their own assessment on risk is fine but one thing they cannot quantify is how good is an individual’s immune system when it confronts Covid- that is extremely difficult to quantify- that’s why vaccines are an insurance policy.lets keep it simple shall we - the risk of death to someone under the age of 25 is 0.0002% - this equates to 1 in 500,000 risk.
This risk is even much lower if the person is healthy. Also don’t forget the death rate is provided with those who died with a positive PCR test (and not from covid). Leaving that aside let’s keep it simple like I said and we are looking at 1 in 500,000 risk for someone under 25 or 2 in 1,000,000.
The incident rate for example for blood clot vaccine injuries which are very rare but are still much higher than 2 in 1,000,000 - it’s about 14 in 1,000,000 depending on which product. As you can see it makes no sense whatsoever after you calculate the risk benefit using official government data and the safety data provided by the vaccine manufacturers.
I would suggest that the effects of long Covid on life span are not known yet but I think you should not ignore the fact that you may end up having a disability or shorten life span as a result of a Covid infection. Morbidity should come into your risk calculation. there are a lot unknowns and risk uncertainty; for example the risks associated of mixing 2 Pfizer doses with a Moderna booster ; risk of flu jab and covid jab at same time ; the medium to long term risks of the vaccines themselves, don’t forget they have been authorised for emergency use only; the list goes on. But if you feel after all that , that long covid is more of a risk, or covid in general poses more of risk of harm to your health then by all means go ahead and take the jabs. The risks I presented include those with underlying conditions and Co-morbidities so the risk is much much lower again for healthy people. In the case of myself under 50s the risk of death is about 0.02 which equates to 1 in 50,000 risk ; probably much less than that as I don’t smoke and am pretty healthy. So on that basis I will take my chances. "typo ! In the case of myself under 50s the risk of death is about 0.002% (not .02) which equates to 1 in 50,000 risk ; | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Not all accountants are rich Hahaha You seem to know more about this virus than him? If you questionn his reasoning then why not question everything else you hear (like the figures you constantly spout on here)?? " Actually I probably do know as much as he does about the disease. I question everything and assume nothing Most stats mentioned are from personal observation Of course you may know more than me. Happy new year | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike .
People making their own assessment on risk is fine but one thing they cannot quantify is how good is an individual’s immune system when it confronts Covid- that is extremely difficult to quantify- that’s why vaccines are an insurance policy.lets keep it simple shall we - the risk of death to someone under the age of 25 is 0.0002% - this equates to 1 in 500,000 risk.
This risk is even much lower if the person is healthy. Also don’t forget the death rate is provided with those who died with a positive PCR test (and not from covid). Leaving that aside let’s keep it simple like I said and we are looking at 1 in 500,000 risk for someone under 25 or 2 in 1,000,000.
The incident rate for example for blood clot vaccine injuries which are very rare but are still much higher than 2 in 1,000,000 - it’s about 14 in 1,000,000 depending on which product. As you can see it makes no sense whatsoever after you calculate the risk benefit using official government data and the safety data provided by the vaccine manufacturers.
I would suggest that the effects of long Covid on life span are not known yet but I think you should not ignore the fact that you may end up having a disability or shorten life span as a result of a Covid infection. Morbidity should come into your risk calculation. there are a lot unknowns and risk uncertainty; for example the risks associated of mixing 2 Pfizer doses with a Moderna booster ; risk of flu jab and covid jab at same time ; the medium to long term risks of the vaccines themselves, don’t forget they have been authorised for emergency use only; the list goes on. But if you feel after all that , that long covid is more of a risk, or covid in general poses more of risk of harm to your health then by all means go ahead and take the jabs. The risks I presented include those with underlying conditions and Co-morbidities so the risk is much much lower again for healthy people. In the case of myself under 50s the risk of death is about 0.02 which equates to 1 in 50,000 risk ; probably much less than that as I don’t smoke and am pretty healthy. So on that basis I will take my chances. typo ! In the case of myself under 50s the risk of death is about 0.002% (not .02) which equates to 1 in 50,000 risk ;"Unless you're the 1, as quite a few have been unfortunately. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend. "Thank you for the patronisation 
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
So they make their own risk assessment but get it wrong because they are not medical professionals.
Are you saying that people who do not get a vaccine have no chance of ending up in A&E.
And are you saying that people have not ended up in A&E ?people end up in A&E everyday for a whole host of reasons. The jabs were oversold and are not performing as we were first lead to believe. They don’t stop transmission or prevent infection; they are about as useful as an ashtray on a motorbike .
People making their own assessment on risk is fine but one thing they cannot quantify is how good is an individual’s immune system when it confronts Covid- that is extremely difficult to quantify- that’s why vaccines are an insurance policy.lets keep it simple shall we - the risk of death to someone under the age of 25 is 0.0002% - this equates to 1 in 500,000 risk.
This risk is even much lower if the person is healthy. Also don’t forget the death rate is provided with those who died with a positive PCR test (and not from covid). Leaving that aside let’s keep it simple like I said and we are looking at 1 in 500,000 risk for someone under 25 or 2 in 1,000,000.
The incident rate for example for blood clot vaccine injuries which are very rare but are still much higher than 2 in 1,000,000 - it’s about 14 in 1,000,000 depending on which product. As you can see it makes no sense whatsoever after you calculate the risk benefit using official government data and the safety data provided by the vaccine manufacturers. "What's the incident rate for a blood clot occuring without any vaccination from official government data? What's the incident rate of a blood clot occuring after contracting Covid? As you can see, you have not yet assessed the risk with your calculation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?"im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation."...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca? The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline. It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do."it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. " Oh, please do elaborate on the "massive" false positive results via PCR. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals " It has changed now but at one stage 70% of people who died had been double jad.. It's was reported at the time.. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
" Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals It has changed now but at one stage 70% of people who died had been double jad.. It's was reported at the time.." Really? That would be interesting if true...but... | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point. "Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information "I have made my own decision and I will continue to do that. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information "the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk "The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections." And then 7 months later we are told the following; the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
"Yes, so what's your point ? It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
"I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters. Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said: “Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.” Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said: “Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.” But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
"You have made your decision with the wrong data, which is fine. Your choice. "Protect" and "effective against" mean different things. Whereas "a lot of protection" and "effective against" have a similar meaning. You understand that, right? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit. "You do understand the difference between reduced risk and zero risk don't you? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit. "Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to grasp | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
You do understand the difference between reduced risk and zero risk don't you?"yes; zero risk is not achievable ; | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to grasp"it sure is; especially if your brainwashed. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to graspit sure is; especially if your brainwashed."Vaccines have been around for hundreds of years, and have probably saved millions of lives, I don't understand what people don't understand about them. It's not like they're a secret. Winston | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to graspit sure is; especially if your brainwashed."Don't worry it's not just you, many others have been brainwashed against vaccines | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to graspit sure is; especially if your brainwashed.
Don't worry it's not just you, many others have been brainwashed against vaccines"thanks for that; I will sleep a lot better tonight | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to graspit sure is; especially if your brainwashed.
Don't worry it's not just you, many others have been brainwashed against vaccinesthanks for that; I will sleep a lot better tonight "Did you find the baseline data that you were ignoring then? | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to graspit sure is; especially if your brainwashed.
Don't worry it's not just you, many others have been brainwashed against vaccinesthanks for that; I will sleep a lot better tonight
Did you find the baseline data that you were ignoring then? "like I said I’m fine with my assessment; especially taking into account the recent statement from CEO Pfizer; who basically confirmed that the covid vaccines are practically useless; Quote “Two doses of the vaccine offers very limited protection, if any,” Long story short but looks like Pfizer will develop a new covid vaccine 1.1 which will be ready in March which will apparently be more effective - that said I’m sure it was still well worth following the science to this point and let’s see how it goes in March | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to graspit sure is; especially if your brainwashed.
Don't worry it's not just you, many others have been brainwashed against vaccinesthanks for that; I will sleep a lot better tonight
Did you find the baseline data that you were ignoring then? like I said I’m fine with my assessment; especially taking into account the recent statement from CEO Pfizer; who basically confirmed that the covid vaccines are practically useless; Quote
“Two doses of the vaccine offers very limited protection, if any,”
Long story short but looks like Pfizer will develop a new covid vaccine 1.1 which will be ready in March which will apparently be more effective - that said I’m sure it was still well worth following the science to this point and let’s see how it goes in March "That's NOT what the CEO of Pfizer said and I think you know full well what he ACTUALLY said. Sorry I don't think you are that stupid. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"Recently people have been complaining we were told this and that about the virus, the vaccine and restrictions. Don't get stuck in 2020, the virus has evolved, our knowledge has evolved, treatment has evolved and vaccines will evolve. With the current omicron variant we know that for most vaccinated people it will be mild or very mild but for many unvaccinated people it won't be. This can be seen in the data for hospital admissions and deaths and although some are so fixated with not taking the vaccine they can't deal with the fact that the majority of people currently in hospital are unvaccinated. We will have to update our focus to protection of those very few people that cannot get vaccinated by ensuring there are adequate resources to treat them and stop people that don't want the vaccine filling beds in hospitals the vaccines are not for everyone; some people are very healthy and trust their immune system to combat whatever is thrown at them. Vaccinating healthy people and young children is a step too far and sets a dangerous precedent. So what happens when they trust their immune system as you say and they get really sick because they listened to someone else
and end up in ICU on deaths door ? Complete fiction pumped out by the likes of Boris and Tony Blair. People can be trusted to make their own assessment and evaluation of the risk versus benefit. Give humanity some credit; They are not all whackos and allow them to make their own risk based decision. And not swallow the lies that has continued to be pumped out day after day for the last 2 years.
People used to make their own risk assessment on how much they could "safely" drink before driving home. They used to make their own risk assessment on wearing a seatbelt. How did that work out.
People are very good at assessing risks within their own experience. It is very difficult to do so at a national level.
It's difficult to know where you get your data from if none of the data collected is trustworthy. Number of infections or hospital admissions or deaths for instance.
Could you share? a simple calculation using a pen and paper; it literally takes about 2 mins. Calculated Using official government data and statistics. Maybe this is where your struggling to comprehend.
Thank you for the patronisation
So your assessment of the official government data using a pen and paper is better than that of an epidemiologist or statistician?im happy with it; too many unknowns as well so that’s where I am. For those of you who disagree with me ( the vast majority I know) then the very best of luck to you. You are no doubt content with the decision you made and so am I. As for the clots risk rating I quoted above -I stand over those, they are purely vaccine related only and are from the government and manufacturer data. I have not compared apples with oranges when I did the simple risk benefit calculation.
...and are they the same for all vaccines or just Astra Zenca?
The point is that you are not as well informed as you think. You aren't even comparing to the correct baseline.
It's complicated and I don't know why you would think you know better than those who work in this field, but clearly you do. it’s not complicated at all, it’s a simple risk benefit check and I am comfortable with my assessment. I have used the government data ; I have accepted their data as is; even though there is a massive amounts of false positives test results from the PCR testing so the risk is even lower if you factored that in. Like I said, we all make choices that we believe is the best and that’s life. Plus the bottom line is the jabs don’t prevent infection or transmission so what’s the point.
Yet still using incorrect data to make your "simple risk benefit" and insisting that you know better than people who's job this is
Did you find the baseline to compare to or the risks of the various different vaccines?
Nobody ever said it would stop people catching or spreading. REDUCE chance of catching and spreading and severity of illness if caught.
That really is quite easy.
Make your own decision, but do use the correct information the following was March 2021 - Chief Medical Officer Chris Whitty - vaccine safety and risk
"The overwhelming view of health professionals is these vaccines are highly effective against a dangerous infection, and they are very safe relative to the risk of the infections."
And then 7 months later we are told the following;
the Prime Minister said that double vaccination provides “a lot of protection against serious illness and death” but does not protect against “catching the disease” or “passing it on”.
Yes, so what's your point ?
It's proven it helps reduce transmission and we all know the prime minister talks shite
I was merely responding to previous. On this occasion Boris actually spoke the truth. Pity he didn’t come out with that when the vaccines were first being rolled out and sold as over 90% effective. The public were mislead and the jabs oversold when these were being rolled out. I know loads of people who feel the same and who had their double jabs but are not taking the boosters.
Dr Mary Ramsay, Head of Immunisation at PHE, said:
“Getting your vaccine will significantly reduce your chances of getting infected and infecting others. It is vital to get both doses of your vaccine when you are offered it.”
Minister for COVID-19 Vaccine Deployment Nadhim Zahawi said:
“Vaccines have been one of the biggest medical marvels in history and the data published today proves how valuable they are in keeping people safe.”
But they don’t keep you safe and are not effective. Both jabbed and unjabbed can still get infected and transmit.
Don't worry your not the only one who is confused, it's quite complex for the average person to graspit sure is; especially if your brainwashed.
Don't worry it's not just you, many others have been brainwashed against vaccinesthanks for that; I will sleep a lot better tonight
Did you find the baseline data that you were ignoring then? like I said I’m fine with my assessment; especially taking into account the recent statement from CEO Pfizer; who basically confirmed that the covid vaccines are practically useless; Quote
“Two doses of the vaccine offers very limited protection, if any,”
Long story short but looks like Pfizer will develop a new covid vaccine 1.1 which will be ready in March which will apparently be more effective - that said I’m sure it was still well worth following the science to this point and let’s see how it goes in March "From transcript of JPMorgan's health-care conference: "Khemlani: We know that here in the U.S.,…we’ve had discussions about boosters coming this fall, and we’re watching the Omicron wave really surge in certain parts of the country as well as the world. Tell me what you’re seeing in terms of the potential for possibly changing how we look at boosters and what kinds of boosters you anticipate — I know you’re working on an Omicron-specific booster as well, right now. So what’s at stake for us in the Fall of ’22? Bourla: Clearly the situation has…deteriorated because of the Omicron [variant]. We had a very quick [inaudible]. It is a disease that manifests a little bit less in terms of mildness — I mean it’s more mild, but you know, because of the…high [infection] rates, still the [hospitalizations] and absolute numbers are going much higher in terms of severe disease, ICU [intensive care unit] occupation, etc… And we know that the…two [doses] of the vaccine offer very limited protection, if any. The three doses — with a booster — they offer reasonable protection against hospitalization and deaths. Against deaths, I think [the three doses are] very good, and [they provide] less protection against infection. Now, we are working on a new version of our vaccine…that will cover Omicron as well. And of course we’re waiting to [get] the final results, [but] the vaccine will be ready in March, and the vaccine, we’ll be able to produce it [on a massive scale]." | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions."That's totally not true and complete misinformation. Once you have had Covid 19 you have far longer lasting and 5 fold better immune response than the vaccine. That's not just for Covid vaccines but for any virus. The bodys B and T cell immunity is triggered not only to the spike but the rest of the viral features which the body can raise antibody against. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
That's totally not true and complete misinformation. Once you have had Covid 19 you have far longer lasting and 5 fold better immune response than the vaccine. That's not just for Covid vaccines but for any virus. The bodys B and T cell immunity is triggered not only to the spike but the rest of the viral features which the body can raise antibody against. "Why, as humans do we think we are exceptional when omicron has probably picked up binding receptors for mice/chickens/ turkey’s. Omicron is basically B1 that went walkabout for a year and re-emerged in November. Bats have ‘lived ‘ with Sabre coronavirus for years - they adapted. How long will it take humans to adapt? Unfortunately Covid is spreading and adapting in other species even though it is only 2 years old. What is mild in one species can be incredibly pathogenic in another if a spillover event occurs. Basically, we have not given Coronavirus’s the respect they deserve- they are incredibly adaptable and very dangerous. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
That's totally not true and complete misinformation. Once you have had Covid 19 you have far longer lasting and 5 fold better immune response than the vaccine. That's not just for Covid vaccines but for any virus. The bodys B and T cell immunity is triggered not only to the spike but the rest of the viral features which the body can raise antibody against. "That is not true the immune response from natural covid infection varies massively from very good to virtually nil. Immune response from vaccination is much more consistent. It also has the advantage of less chance of death and life changing injuries than natural covid infection. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Disgusting attitude indeed, equally disgusting is dismissing NHS and care staff based on the choice they have made. https://news-sky-com.cdn.ampproject.org/v/s/news.sky.com/story/amp/covid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224?amp_js_v=a6&_gsa=1&usqp=mq331AQIKAGwASCAAgM%3D#aoh=16415842462422&csi=0&referrer=https%3A%2F%2Fwww.google.com&_tf=From%20%251%24s&share=https%3A%2F%2Fnews.sky.com%2Fstory%2Fcovid-19-sajid-javid-directly-challenged-on-mandatory-coronavirus-jabs-by-unvaccinated-nhs-doctor-12511224 Interesting how you post this and not a single comment. We are always being told that the only “medical professionals” who raise questions about the vaccines are quacks. Also told it is right for all patient facing NHS workers the have mandatory vaccine and anyone saying otherwise must be an idiot. Here is a Consultant Anaesthetist who has worked with Covid patients throughout and caught Covid himself. He does not believe the vaccine should be mandatory if you have had Covid and have antibodies. He does not want it. Assume he knows more about this than 99.9% of the people on this forum! Would disagree with the premise that 'all' medical professionals who raise questions have been labelled as quacks, my OH is one and she and several colleagues certainly prior to vaccination roll out were like many others in that industry asking questions.. There's a massive difference between some of the fringe, the extremists who have come out with dangerous misinformation and medical professionals who in their duties are expected to analyse treatment and how they are applied individually and subsequently raise questions if appropriate.. That doctor is entitled to his opinion however he is part of the NHS and the ICU’s are occupied disproportionately by unvaccinated patients. He knew the cameras were there and yet he gave an opinion that was obviously destined to go viral because of the profession he is in.The fact he did this, without a care of what impact this would have on his fellow colleagues suggests that anyone is capable getting lost in a virtual rabbit hole of data and not even realising it at the time. https://www.icnarc.org/Our-Audit/Audits/Cmp/Reports Latest ICU data- please see the chart- it is stark.
Except he was anti vaccine he was anti mandation due to having his own anti bodies from having had Covid.
Yes but a vaccine would reduce transmission for longer compared to natural immunity and at his workplace he is in contact with a lot of vulnerable patients. Like I said - I don’t really think he is fully aware of the consequences of his actions.
That's totally not true and complete misinformation. Once you have had Covid 19 you have far longer lasting and 5 fold better immune response than the vaccine. That's not just for Covid vaccines but for any virus. The bodys B and T cell immunity is triggered not only to the spike but the rest of the viral features which the body can raise antibody against. "Strange, the The British Society for Immunology disagrees with you. So does the ZOE Covid study. So does the CDC. I guess we should trust you as you are a random guy just saying things as if you know what you're talking about | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. " Not quite the same, but this happened to a work colleague, his GP wouldn't treat him for bronchial asthma as he smoked. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
"As a nurse, I'd leave the service if the day ever dawned where people would be refused treatment based on a choice they have made. Go down that path and there will be very very few people 'allowed' to become ill or injure themselves through a choice they made. I think it's a disgusting attitude and I pray its never adopted. Not quite the same, but this happened to a work colleague, his GP wouldn't treat him for bronchial asthma as he smoked. " Would the treatment me ineffective if he smoked? Would there be side effects for an ineffective treatment? Perhaps more complicated than it sounds? Perhaps not. Who knows. I guess you will only have heard one side. | |||
| Reply privately | Reply in forum | Reply +quote |
| Post new Message to Thread |
| back to top |  |
