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"Makes sense "It's certainly better than mandatory vaccination of all citizens which the Austrians are planning. I read a typical covid ICU stay in Singapore would set you back about £18,000. That's roughly the cost to each individual if they fall seriously ill unvaxxed. KJ | |||
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"Makes sense
It's certainly better than mandatory vaccination of all citizens which the Austrians are planning.
I read a typical covid ICU stay in Singapore would set you back about £18,000. That's roughly the cost to each individual if they fall seriously ill unvaxxed.
KJ
"Plus an extra grand for a 3 week stay in the morgue, paid in advance I would hope.  | |||
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"It’s a slippery slope , because the next step is not treating all self inflicted illness such as smoking and many more " I guess it's a lot harder to show the link ... Even lung cancer. I'd start with d*unk drivers...  | |||
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"This is certainly marginally better than mandatory vaccination. So I assume they will have to then extend the same rules to obesity related illness, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, smokers and other self inflicted illnesses. Because obviously they can’t just punish those related to Covid? " Already well under way, try getting a liver transplant if your a drinker. Try getting a hip of knee op if your overweight. It's coming | |||
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"Makes sense
It's certainly better than mandatory vaccination of all citizens which the Austrians are planning.
I read a typical covid ICU stay in Singapore would set you back about £18,000. That's roughly the cost to each individual if they fall seriously ill unvaxxed.
KJ
"Would you like to see this adopted in this country? Move us more towards the USA type healthcare system? | |||
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"Makes sense
It's certainly better than mandatory vaccination of all citizens which the Austrians are planning.
I read a typical covid ICU stay in Singapore would set you back about £18,000. That's roughly the cost to each individual if they fall seriously ill unvaxxed.
KJ
Would you like to see this adopted in this country? Move us more towards the USA type healthcare system?"Its the way its been heading for years. Slowly strip away funding then outsource. | |||
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"Singapore will no longer cover the medical costs of Covid-19 patients who are eligible to get vaccinated against the virus but choose not to, the country’s Health Ministry said. “We will begin charging Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice” on Dec. 8, the ministry said in a statement on Monday. Those who are not eligible for the shots will be exempt from the rule, it said, including children under 12 and people with certain medical conditions. The number of severe cases, which have been mainly among unvaccinated people, has stabilized but remains high, the ministry said. Of about 280 intensive-care beds for Covid patients, 134 are occupied, and most are among those not vaccinated, a senior minister of state, Janil Puthucheary, said at a news conference. “We have to continue to try to keep this number as small as possible,” he said, since health care workers “continue to be stretched.”" So glad we all pay for our NHS  | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta" | |||
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"Singapore will no longer cover the medical costs of Covid-19 patients who are eligible to get vaccinated against the virus but choose not to, the country’s Health Ministry said. “We will begin charging Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice” on Dec. 8, the ministry said in a statement on Monday. Those who are not eligible for the shots will be exempt from the rule, it said, including children under 12 and people with certain medical conditions. The number of severe cases, which have been mainly among unvaccinated people, has stabilized but remains high, the ministry said. Of about 280 intensive-care beds for Covid patients, 134 are occupied, and most are among those not vaccinated, a senior minister of state, Janil Puthucheary, said at a news conference. “We have to continue to try to keep this number as small as possible,” he said, since health care workers “continue to be stretched.”" It’s basically now the same in the US where a lot of big employers now specifically won’t cover employees health insurance in plans if they are not vaccinated | |||
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"How many people in the uk paying National insurance would end up paying the equivalent cost for say a hip replacement plus the after after care in their working life? Or maybe cancer treatment? Imagine trying to find the money if you had to pay hard cash "Yep, I owe the NHS upwards of £200k for cancer treatment over the last 5 years, and I haven’t received an invoice. | |||
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"This is certainly marginally better than mandatory vaccination. So I assume they will have to then extend the same rules to obesity related illness, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, smokers and other self inflicted illnesses. Because obviously they can’t just punish those related to Covid? " Could extend that to sexual health related issues, if you don't use condoms. | |||
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"So if you climb a mountain and fall off you'll be charged for the helicopter, if you crash your car you'll have to pay for your treatment? Where would it end? " Actually if it happened abroad they would probably want a credit card number before sending a helicopter so that's already a reason to have your own insurance | |||
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"How many people in the uk paying National insurance would end up paying the equivalent cost for say a hip replacement plus the after after care in their working life? Or maybe cancer treatment? Imagine trying to find the money if you had to pay hard cash
Yep, I owe the NHS upwards of £200k for cancer treatment over the last 5 years, and I haven’t received an invoice. "I hope your doing ok now
Just goes to show that the uk system is still one of the best in the world even if some still try to put it down | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta" Your ideas and sums are all off target as usual. Tax income is already working well because people have been vaccinated. | |||
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"So if you climb a mountain and fall off you'll be charged for the helicopter, if you crash your car you'll have to pay for your treatment? Where would it end? Actually if it happened abroad they would probably want a credit card number before sending a helicopter so that's already a reason to have your own insurance" Happened to a relative of mine. No credit card, no ambulance. €5k upfront. (Thank fuck for travel insurance) | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta Your ideas and sums are all off target as usual. Tax income is already working well because people have been vaccinated." Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. | |||
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"At some point a societal medical system starts to creak. I suspect those with a pay as you need/insurance based model already have vaccination being priced in the underwriting. Many are saying no to vaccines based on them being low risk to covid. This literally puts their money where the mouth is. " Yup. Didn't need help the first time I had it. Won't need help if there's a next time. | |||
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"At some point a societal medical system starts to creak. I suspect those with a pay as you need/insurance based model already have vaccination being priced in the underwriting. Many are saying no to vaccines based on them being low risk to covid. This literally puts their money where the mouth is. Yup. Didn't need help the first time I had it. Won't need help if there's a next time. " Brilliant !! | |||
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"Does this mean if they are unvaccinated and do not have ability to pay the cost of treatment, they will be simply left to potentially die?" They won't need treatment, they don't need vaccinated because they aren't going to get sick, isn't that their argument ? | |||
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"Also, if medical assistance is refused die to personal choice, then other personal choices should also come with such consequences For instance, obesity is a huge indicator of how vulnerable you can be to Covid. So should medical care be restricted to people who are too fat? (I'll ignore such weak excuses as obesity is a disease. It's not. Being obese us largely due to poor life choices" I think the waiting room should just be called by body fat % in order. "OK that's the 9%s done, anyone waiting with 10% body fat?" | |||
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"Does this mean if they are unvaccinated and do not have ability to pay the cost of treatment, they will be simply left to potentially die?" for the very poor, I think it's still subsidised a lot. And many have (mandatory) savings that can be used I suspect. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta Your ideas and sums are all off target as usual. Tax income is already working well because people have been vaccinated. Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. " That will be the case for many but you are relatively young. You only need something to go a bit pear shaped with your health and you will soon be in debt. You would then be on here whining and complaining about the unfair insurance and their exclusions. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta Your ideas and sums are all off target as usual. Tax income is already working well because people have been vaccinated. Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. That will be the case for many but you are relatively young. You only need something to go a bit pear shaped with your health and you will soon be in debt. You would then be on here whining and complaining about the unfair insurance and their exclusions." Someone should really invent a mathematical concept to calculate that kind of thing 
As I said, your side is the one proposing this. I'm just saying I'm absolutely fine with the principle. Just don't stop at covid. | |||
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"This could work if it was specific Do you have Covid? Yes Have you had the vaccination? No Tough shit However, what would be inhumane is the following example Do you have Covid? No, my leg is broken In that case your vaccination status is moot And to those who say the unvaccinated shouldn't be allowed in as they're a transmission risk factor, as even vaccinated can transmit the virus your argument is weak, like the compassion you like to boast about" It's only related to covid care. So if your unvaxxed and break your leg you get treated no issue. It's specifically if the unvaxxed through choice need covid related care then they pay for it. However those very people believe they have such a tiny risk they decide against the vax so really this is a case of put your money where your mouth is in essence. It's been driven because the ICUs are clogged up with lots of unvaxxed in Singapore which mos casest could have been easily avoided had they taken up the jab. KJ | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta . Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. " That’s OK. As long as you stay young. Health insurance premiums rise with age. If, for instance, you develop cancer, and get treated, your premiums will rise very considerably. Some insurers will not renew your policy. Then there is the deductible (in UK motor-insurance terminology, the ‘excess’) which is several thousand $. That is variable too. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta" It’s not a social system then, it’s a private system. Move to the USA. And good luck Mr invincible or is it mr immortal. | |||
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"It’s a slippery slope , because the next step is not treating all self inflicted illness such as smoking and many more " Great idea | |||
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" Already well under way, try getting a liver transplant if your a drinker. " George Best managed to pickle 3 livers, his own and 2 transplants, what a legend  | |||
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"It’s a slippery slope , because the next step is not treating all self inflicted illness such as smoking and many more " Can't compare. Smoking will cause the sickness and avoiding smoking has no side affects The vaccine has side affects, and not taking it does not mean you will cause yourself to get sick. So it would be like saying "we are only gonna give lung treatment to people who vape, it safer than smoking" And then you say "vaping carries too many risks for me, I'd rather do it my own way, I don't smoke at all" And they say "tough luck, 80 percent of people smoke, so vape or monlung treatment" | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta . Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. That’s OK. As long as you stay young. Health insurance premiums rise with age. If, for instance, you develop cancer, and get treated, your premiums will rise very considerably. Some insurers will not renew your policy. Then there is the deductible (in UK motor-insurance terminology, the ‘excess’) which is several thousand $. That is variable too." It's OK as long as I save the money while I'm young, but when I look at how much tax i pay - yeah I can buy a lot of healthcare with that when the time comes. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta It’s not a social system then, it’s a private system. Move to the USA. And good luck Mr invincible or is it mr immortal. " No it's not a social system if you start excluding the people who pay for it. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta Your ideas and sums are all off target as usual. Tax income is already working well because people have been vaccinated. Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. " This is something that really annoys me…. I know your are being very blasé about it… but it all actually adds up… every hospital stay, every A&E visit, every dental appointment, every ambulance you have taken, every GP visit, every prescription you have had! (And before you say you pay …. They are subsided!) You might be quids in now…. Say if you found out you had cancer tomorrow, how much do you think that would cost to treat? ( what you will find is that you are normally only covered up to a certain value!) You are paying actually not as much as a percentage of your wages as a lot of countries do… so stop being such a tit!!! | |||
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"Makes sense "Course it does. If you want the NHS to be PAYG and everyone to fund the unfortunate outcomes of their own actions and decisions because that's where it will end. Once we arrive at that point there'll be no going back so think carefully about what you wish for and what you might turn out to be liable for in the future. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta" I understand your sentiment but sadly no one knows when they will need care. So you pay nothing for healthcare while you are a young healthy man but sadly, in retirement, you develop a chronic ailment, unless you have substantial savings, you will be at the mercy of your non existing healthcare system. Like most things, the reality is somewhat more complicated than a quick chat on line or in the pub but both great fun. Personally, I do believe the future will bring a 2 tier health system. One for paid surgery like hip, knee surgery and another for chronic ailments paid for by a smaller health service. I hope I'm wrong but can't really see it going any other way. | |||
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"Makes sense
Course it does. If you want the NHS to be PAYG and everyone to fund the unfortunate outcomes of their own actions and decisions because that's where it will end. Once we arrive at that point there'll be no going back so think carefully about what you wish for and what you might turn out to be liable for in the future."That's already here. All NHS hospitals have "PAYG" (paying-patient). In all regions of England, if you want a procedure (cataract treatment etc) it is a lot faster to pay for it (1 month for PAYG, 4 years for wait-and-hope)(catarct). Hip/joint replacement? Years on NHS wait-and-hope, a few months on "give us £6000". Quite a few treatments are no longer available via the NHS, free. Other treatments are no longer available at many local hospitals. people have to travel a long way, in my town, for cancer treatment. 140 miles round trip. With the queues being very long, many die prematurely from treatable tumours, because treatment is delayed. We are past the "there's no going back" point. The stealth-execution of the NHS got into top gear in the Health and Social Care Reform act 2012. the Health reform Bill, about to be law soon, will transfer control to Accountable Care organisations, you will no longer have hospital treatment available at all times, for free. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta Your ideas and sums are all off target as usual. Tax income is already working well because people have been vaccinated. Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. This is something that really annoys me…. I know your are being very blasé about it… but it all actually adds up… every hospital stay, every A&E visit, every dental appointment, every ambulance you have taken, every GP visit, every prescription you have had! (And before you say you pay …. They are subsided!) You might be quids in now…. Say if you found out you had cancer tomorrow, how much do you think that would cost to treat? ( what you will find is that you are normally only covered up to a certain value!) You are paying actually not as much as a percentage of your wages as a lot of countries do… so stop being such a tit!!!" Not being a socialist doesn't make me a tit. I actually understand economics and probability. As I say, your side suggested this and I'm perfecy happy with the principle. Also you are the sick one who almost certainly takes more out the system than me, so a 'thank you' is in order because I'm subsiding you. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta It’s not a social system then, it’s a private system. Move to the USA. And good luck Mr invincible or is it mr immortal. " I have a mate who was exactly like this poster fit & healthy, never ill and use to say all the same things about not needing any health care, not needing the NHS etc. Then at just 29 years of age in May of this year and out of nowhere he was struck down with olfactory neuroblastoma. After going through months of Chemo he was then transferred to Manchester for Photontherapy only to find out 2 weeks into the 5 week treatment plan that his cancer is sadly terminal. Unfortunately none of us are "Mr invincible / Mr Immortal" lets hope his self-assured hubris isn't misplaced. KJ | |||
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" Already well under way, try getting a liver transplant if your a drinker. George Best managed to pickle 3 livers, his own and 2 transplants, what a legend "I wonder why they stopped doing it ? Maybe it was George Best who led to the reviews | |||
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"Makes sense
Course it does. If you want the NHS to be PAYG and everyone to fund the unfortunate outcomes of their own actions and decisions because that's where it will end. Once we arrive at that point there'll be no going back so think carefully about what you wish for and what you might turn out to be liable for in the future."Spot on. | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta Your ideas and sums are all off target as usual. Tax income is already working well because people have been vaccinated. Nope, I pay far more into the system than I get out. This is actually quite normal if you bothered to do some research instead of posting the first thought that comes into your head. So let's square up, go completely insurance based. Just give me my refund. I'll be quids in for another 20 years minimum. " But that's the point. As you age you will start to have more health issues. And don't forget a nasty accident will bankrupt you in this scenario. Most of the people who go bankrupt due to medical emergencies in the states had insurance but the out of pocket costs can be horrendous. Be very careful what you wish for. | |||
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" But that's the point. As you age you will start to have more health issues. And don't forget a nasty accident will bankrupt you in this scenario. Most of the people who go bankrupt due to medical emergencies in the states had insurance but the out of pocket costs can be horrendous. Be very careful what you wish for. " Even if you have insurance, the care provider will want to know if you can pay the deductible (USA-speak, the same as the vehicle insurance EXCESS in UK). My insurance premium for a one month visit to the USA was quoted as $1700. The annual premium was $32,000 (age/conditions). | |||
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"In the USA approximately 530,000 people are declared bankrupt every year due to medical bills. Much of that is due to deductibles (excess). Also, while you may be able to afford the premiums when you are young, fit and healthy, once you do have to make a claim for something that then becomes a pre-existing condition. That means you won’t be able to move to another insurance firm and the one you are with can and will start to increase your premiums and you are locked in." In the USA do you get free health care when you retire ? | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta" That's a great idea. You just have to hope you don't get seriously ill and have to pay out thousands in medical bills. But then if you can't pay they should just turn you away. | |||
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"In the USA approximately 530,000 people are declared bankrupt every year due to medical bills. Much of that is due to deductibles (excess). Also, while you may be able to afford the premiums when you are young, fit and healthy, once you do have to make a claim for something that then becomes a pre-existing condition. That means you won’t be able to move to another insurance firm and the one you are with can and will start to increase your premiums and you are locked in. In the USA do you get free health care when you retire ? " Only if you qualify for Medicaid so if you are “middle income” (a very wide band) forget it. Not sure what is behind your question though? You aren’t seriously advocating a US style health insurance approach for the UK are you? | |||
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"Honestly I'd absolutely love a social system where I only pay for what I use, I'd be much financial better off. Of course you can all start paying for your vaccines and I'll have a nice tax refund thanks. Ta It’s not a social system then, it’s a private system. Move to the USA. And good luck Mr invincible or is it mr immortal. No it's not a social system if you start excluding the people who pay for it. " I'm going to get a ban for this, but someone has to say it. This guy is a complete dork. | |||
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"In the USA approximately 530,000 people are declared bankrupt every year due to medical bills. Much of that is due to deductibles (excess). Also, while you may be able to afford the premiums when you are young, fit and healthy, once you do have to make a claim for something that then becomes a pre-existing condition. That means you won’t be able to move to another insurance firm and the one you are with can and will start to increase your premiums and you are locked in. In the USA do you get free health care when you retire ? Only if you qualify for Medicaid so if you are “middle income” (a very wide band) forget it. Not sure what is behind your question though? You aren’t seriously advocating a US style health insurance approach for the UK are you?" No was just interested what people do once there income from working stops , | |||
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Imo there are two reasons why we aren't quite at the slippery slope
1) very easy to define if you are jabbed or not
2) very easy to say that you have covid, which the jab is there to try and prevent / reduce the effects of. | |||
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"In the USA approximately 530,000 people are declared bankrupt every year due to medical bills. Much of that is due to deductibles (excess). Also, while you may be able to afford the premiums when you are young, fit and healthy, once you do have to make a claim for something that then becomes a pre-existing condition. That means you won’t be able to move to another insurance firm and the one you are with can and will start to increase your premiums and you are locked in. In the USA do you get free health care when you retire ? Only if you qualify for Medicaid so if you are “middle income” (a very wide band) forget it. Not sure what is behind your question though? You aren’t seriously advocating a US style health insurance approach for the UK are you?" Medicare is for oldies and some disabled. Medicaid is for low-income people/families. | |||
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"In the USA approximately 530,000 people are declared bankrupt every year due to medical bills. Much of that is due to deductibles (excess). Also, while you may be able to afford the premiums when you are young, fit and healthy, once you do have to make a claim for something that then becomes a pre-existing condition. That means you won’t be able to move to another insurance firm and the one you are with can and will start to increase your premiums and you are locked in. In the USA do you get free health care when you retire ? " No. Medicare may provide 50% of the cost. | |||
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"Completely agree with Singapore's stance , the UK should do the same ! "So you like the slippery slope ? | |||
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"Singapore will no longer cover the medical costs of Covid-19 patients who are eligible to get vaccinated against the virus but choose not to, the country’s Health Ministry said. “We will begin charging Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice” on Dec. 8, the ministry said in a statement on Monday. Those who are not eligible for the shots will be exempt from the rule, it said, including children under 12 and people with certain medical conditions. The number of severe cases, which have been mainly among unvaccinated people, has stabilized but remains high, the ministry said. Of about 280 intensive-care beds for Covid patients, 134 are occupied, and most are among those not vaccinated, a senior minister of state, Janil Puthucheary, said at a news conference. “We have to continue to try to keep this number as small as possible,” he said, since health care workers “continue to be stretched.”" What happens if someone who is un vaxxed ill are they gonna let them die if they can't afford treatment then? | |||
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"They should also do the same for adverse effects of the jab because it was their choice to take the jab. Also for smokers and drinkers. Also anyone involved in a car crash because if they had been more careful they would not have crashed. Also for maternity hospitals, it was their choice to have a baby. In fact everything except getting struck by lightning " But they are probably sinners anyway | |||
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"Singapore will no longer cover the medical costs of Covid-19 patients who are eligible to get vaccinated against the virus but choose not to, the country’s Health Ministry said. “We will begin charging Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice” on Dec. 8, the ministry said in a statement on Monday. Those who are not eligible for the shots will be exempt from the rule, it said, including children under 12 and people with certain medical conditions. The number of severe cases, which have been mainly among unvaccinated people, has stabilized but remains high, the ministry said. Of about 280 intensive-care beds for Covid patients, 134 are occupied, and most are among those not vaccinated, a senior minister of state, Janil Puthucheary, said at a news conference. “We have to continue to try to keep this number as small as possible,” he said, since health care workers “continue to be stretched.” What happens if someone who is un vaxxed ill are they gonna let them die if they can't afford treatment then? " from my understanding there is an some reduction in costs for the very poor. Many Singaporeans also have governmwnt sponsored manadatory savings they may be allowed to used. But the argument will be that if you are are worried about costs, go get vaxxed. | |||
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"Singapore will no longer cover the medical costs of Covid-19 patients who are eligible to get vaccinated against the virus but choose not to, the country’s Health Ministry said. “We will begin charging Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice” on Dec. 8, the ministry said in a statement on Monday. Those who are not eligible for the shots will be exempt from the rule, it said, including children under 12 and people with certain medical conditions. The number of severe cases, which have been mainly among unvaccinated people, has stabilized but remains high, the ministry said. Of about 280 intensive-care beds for Covid patients, 134 are occupied, and most are among those not vaccinated, a senior minister of state, Janil Puthucheary, said at a news conference. “We have to continue to try to keep this number as small as possible,” he said, since health care workers “continue to be stretched.” What happens if someone who is un vaxxed ill are they gonna let them die if they can't afford treatment then? " There are countries where if you don’t have any funds you will be at the mercy of a charity hospital if you can get in. Or yes you will die
People just don’t realise just how lucky they are living in the uk | |||
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"Honestly reading this has made me sadder and sadder going through the comments. The problem we have is we withdraw treatment from unvaccinated you are just backing people into a corner and it’s going to get more and more nasty. Look at the Netherlands at the moment. If the UK was like the US then I would probably be dead, I’m type 1 diabetic only been diagnosed a year. The medication I get on the nhs each month which saves my life costs my US equivalent $1000 that’s their excess. My insulin needs are completely elastic sometimes I need more and others I need less. I read heartbreaking Facebook posts from Americans about them having to ration their insulin and almost slowly killing themselves because they can’t afford anymore insulin. I wouldn’t be alive today without the NHS. Then there’s the cancer treatments I have seen fit and healthy friends with no other ailments have to go through cancer treatments in late 20s and early 30s. They wouldn’t have the money in the systems above to pay for their treatments and you’re arrogant if you think it won’t affect you. I think it’s now up to 1 in 3 people I lost my sister at age 38 she was diagnosed at 33 was probably the healthiest she had ever been when diagnosed. She got 5 extra years with her children thanks to the NHS. " That has put everything into perspective. While we don't support mandatory vaccination everyone should think about others and do their bit for society. We should all be helping to keep hospital beds free for those don't have a choice. | |||
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"They should also do the same for adverse effects of the jab because it was their choice to take the jab. Also for smokers and drinkers. Also anyone involved in a car crash because if they had been more careful they would not have crashed. Also for maternity hospitals, it was their choice to have a baby. In fact everything except getting struck by lightning But they are probably sinners anyway " Well if they are on this site then very likely sinners!!! | |||
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"They should also do the same for adverse effects of the jab because it was their choice to take the jab. Also for smokers and drinkers. Also anyone involved in a car crash because if they had been more careful they would not have crashed. Also for maternity hospitals, it was their choice to have a baby. In fact everything except getting struck by lightning But they are probably sinners anyway Well if they are on this site then very likely sinners!!!" "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun" | |||
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"They should also do the same for adverse effects of the jab because it was their choice to take the jab. Also for smokers and drinkers. Also anyone involved in a car crash because if they had been more careful they would not have crashed. Also for maternity hospitals, it was their choice to have a baby. In fact everything except getting struck by lightning " False equivalence. Strawman arguement. | |||
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"They should also do the same for adverse effects of the jab because it was their choice to take the jab. Also for smokers and drinkers. Also anyone involved in a car crash because if they had been more careful they would not have crashed. Also for maternity hospitals, it was their choice to have a baby. In fact everything except getting struck by lightning But they are probably sinners anyway Well if they are on this site then very likely sinners!!! "I'd rather laugh with the sinners than cry with the saints, the sinners are much more fun"" been saints for waaaaay too long, time for some serious sin (although for us maybe just wait a tad longer to see what pans out this time!) | |||
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"This is certainly marginally better than mandatory vaccination. So I assume they will have to then extend the same rules to obesity related illness, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, smokers and other self inflicted illnesses. Because obviously they can’t just punish those related to Covid? " Fat, drug abuse, self-inflicted wounds and smoking are not contagious to others. | |||
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"This is certainly marginally better than mandatory vaccination. So I assume they will have to then extend the same rules to obesity related illness, drug abuse, alcohol abuse, smokers and other self inflicted illnesses. Because obviously they can’t just punish those related to Covid? Fat, drug abuse, self-inflicted wounds and smoking are not contagious to others." But they still take up beds and impact others that way! And the vaccine doesn’t prevent transmission anyway. My god it’s frightening how many nut cases there are who’d be happy for people to die without treatment just because they don’t what a bloody vaccine. Absolute psychos. | |||
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"So if you climb a mountain and fall off you'll be charged for the helicopter, if you crash your car you'll have to pay for your treatment? Where would it end? " Just like a lot of Europe then. They charge for ambulances as well. | |||
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"They should also do the same for adverse effects of the jab because it was their choice to take the jab. Also for smokers and drinkers. Also anyone involved in a car crash because if they had been more careful they would not have crashed. Also for maternity hospitals, it was their choice to have a baby. In fact everything except getting struck by lightning But they are probably sinners anyway Well if they are on this site then very likely sinners!!!" Are you suggesting swinging (i.e. genuine swinging with full openness / disclosure / trust between partners and all parties) is a sin? Or removing any religious connotation are you saying swinging is in someway wrong? KJ | |||
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"Singapore will no longer cover the medical costs of Covid-19 patients who are eligible to get vaccinated against the virus but choose not to, the country’s Health Ministry said. “We will begin charging Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice” on Dec. 8, the ministry said in a statement on Monday. Those who are not eligible for the shots will be exempt from the rule, it said, including children under 12 and people with certain medical conditions. The number of severe cases, which have been mainly among unvaccinated people, has stabilized but remains high, the ministry said. Of about 280 intensive-care beds for Covid patients, 134 are occupied, and most are among those not vaccinated, a senior minister of state, Janil Puthucheary, said at a news conference. “We have to continue to try to keep this number as small as possible,” he said, since health care workers “continue to be stretched.”" With rights come responsibility. For a person to be infected with something that can easily be transmitted to others I have no problem with this. Consider the fit as you like individual, not over weight, non smoker, double vaccinated etc who is knocked off his bike whilst exercising and is in need of a ITU bed. Now, if that bed is blocked by someone who thought it their right for no other reason not to be vaccinated, kick said person out of bed??? | |||
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"Singapore will no longer cover the medical costs of Covid-19 patients who are eligible to get vaccinated against the virus but choose not to, the country’s Health Ministry said. “We will begin charging Covid-19 patients who are unvaccinated by choice” on Dec. 8, the ministry said in a statement on Monday. Those who are not eligible for the shots will be exempt from the rule, it said, including children under 12 and people with certain medical conditions. The number of severe cases, which have been mainly among unvaccinated people, has stabilized but remains high, the ministry said. Of about 280 intensive-care beds for Covid patients, 134 are occupied, and most are among those not vaccinated, a senior minister of state, Janil Puthucheary, said at a news conference. “We have to continue to try to keep this number as small as possible,” he said, since health care workers “continue to be stretched.” With rights come responsibility. For a person to be infected with something that can easily be transmitted to others I have no problem with this. Consider the fit as you like individual, not over weight, non smoker, double vaccinated etc who is knocked off his bike whilst exercising and is in need of a ITU bed. Now, if that bed is blocked by someone who thought it their right for no other reason not to be vaccinated, kick said person out of bed??? " Shall we prioritise all of health services like this? I'm fit, bang on healthy bodyweight/low bodyfat, don't smoke, don't drink a lot, eat relatively healthy 90% of the time and I'm vaccinated. Does that mean I can jump the queue over anyone that doesn't tick those boxes. Also where do we draw the line with vaccinations, I don't get the flu jab, should I be refused medical treatment despite paying a fuckload of tax yearly? Flu kills a lot of people too. I'll happily take a refund for all my unused services if they want to head down that route considering I haven't saw my doctor in 20 years and my last dentist appointment left me in so much pain I went private afterwards anyway. | |||
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"Makes sense
It's certainly better than mandatory vaccination of all citizens which the Austrians are planning.
I read a typical covid ICU stay in Singapore would set you back about £18,000. That's roughly the cost to each individual if they fall seriously ill unvaxxed.
KJ
"Should be the same here. Think you might be a zero out on your figures. ICU in the US is between $200,000 and $1,000,000 depending on length of stay. I heard the UK was averaging around £450,000+ equivalent cost per stay. I fully agree, no vaccine, no free treatment as its not fair on the rest that pay their taxes, behave responsibility to others while put wearing masks and have had all the jabs. Nearly EVERYONE in need of ICU is non vaccinated, except for immune compromised others. Example: Our local hospital had had over 20x unvaxxed pregnant mothers brought in for planned C Section in order for the COVID infected mother to be taken into ICU and knocked-out. 40 to 50% of these mothers are now DEAD, as they did not make it. The sanme hospital has not had a single case of mother needing C Section prior to COVID treatment where a mother has had vaccines. Was is really worth not taking the teeny risk of a reaction that could be treated over leaving a child without a mother? | |||
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"It’s a slippery slope , because the next step is not treating all self inflicted illness such as smoking and many more " The difference with smoking and obesity is that it is not as simple to reverse (damage) or risk as with refusal to take the vaccine. But the drinking/smoking/eating abusers will one day have to pay something too I expect. At least the first two categories have paid a LOT of tax into the system already. Anti vaxers have not (specifically for covid that is). | |||
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"How many people in the uk paying National insurance would end up paying the equivalent cost for say a hip replacement plus the after after care in their working life? Or maybe cancer treatment? Imagine trying to find the money if you had to pay hard cash
Yep, I owe the NHS upwards of £200k for cancer treatment over the last 5 years, and I haven’t received an invoice. "And this is why we need a socially funded system! Majority are happy to pay in in the hope that they never need it - but that it is there for those that do. Having money diverted to spend on covid because someone saw a video on youtube is not the best use of public funds. | |||
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"How many people in the uk paying National insurance would end up paying the equivalent cost for say a hip replacement plus the after after care in their working life? Or maybe cancer treatment? Imagine trying to find the money if you had to pay hard cash
Yep, I owe the NHS upwards of £200k for cancer treatment over the last 5 years, and I haven’t received an invoice.
And this is why we need a socially funded system! Majority are happy to pay in in the hope that they never need it - but that it is there for those that do. Having money diverted to spend on covid because someone saw a video on youtube is not the best use of public funds. "What video would that be? | |||
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"It's highly ironic that many of those who reckon they're devoted to the NHS remaining publicly funded and free at the point of delivery seem to be in favour of the sort of 'discrimination' in treatment which is a feature of private healthcare." There’s a difference ideologically from believing in a social healthcare that is free at the point of delivery to all…. And believing that everyone in society should be able to be entirely reckless and continue ti be able to abuse the system when the means to support change exists. The two positions are not mutually exclusive. The key is the degree of rapidity and the ease of accommodating and reacting to change. Vaccine refusal on non medical grounds can be easily adapted. People can change mind “quickly”. Someone who’s at risk of diabetes because they’ve had a few too many doughnuts might need more time to adapt. But facts are that unless some tough choices are made then there simply won’t be enough money to go around. And of some of the expenditure can be avoided by encouraging changes them why not? Is it not how cancer is treated? Cut out the bad to preserve the whole? Let NICE determine where society gets the best bang for buck on treatment? Either that or make big macs £12k like a packet of cigs. | |||
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"Also, if medical assistance is refused die to personal choice, then other personal choices should also come with such consequences For instance, obesity is a huge indicator of how vulnerable you can be to Covid. So should medical care be restricted to people who are too fat? (I'll ignore such weak excuses as obesity is a disease. It's not. Being obese us largely due to poor life choices" I agree | |||
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"It's highly ironic that many of those who reckon they're devoted to the NHS remaining publicly funded and free at the point of delivery seem to be in favour of the sort of 'discrimination' in treatment which is a feature of private healthcare." Self inflicted - Did the NHS not start charging for being treated for being d*unk? Not sure if they still do. | |||
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"Makes sense
It's certainly better than mandatory vaccination of all citizens which the Austrians are planning.
I read a typical covid ICU stay in Singapore would set you back about £18,000. That's roughly the cost to each individual if they fall seriously ill unvaxxed.
KJ
Should be the same here. Think you might be a zero out on your figures. ICU in the US is between $200,000 and $1,000,000 depending on length of stay. I heard the UK was averaging around £450,000+ equivalent cost per stay.
I fully agree, no vaccine, no free treatment as its not fair on the rest that pay their taxes, behave responsibility to others while put wearing masks and have had all the jabs.
Nearly EVERYONE in need of ICU is non vaccinated, except for immune compromised others.
Example: Our local hospital had had over 20x unvaxxed pregnant mothers brought in for planned C Section in order for the COVID infected mother to be taken into ICU and knocked-out.
40 to 50% of these mothers are now DEAD, as they did not make it. The sanme hospital has not had a single case of mother needing C Section prior to COVID treatment where a mother has had vaccines.
Was is really worth not taking the teeny risk of a reaction that could be treated over leaving a child without a mother?
"Do you have some links and sources to that info you provided? Genuinely curious to find out more. KJ | |||
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